When you hate your kid's homework...

[DesertBlossom]

Ds10 goes to a public school that is kind of a full time g&t program. I like many things about the school. I hate some of the homework they give.

 

He is supposed to come up with this elaborate plan for an invention-- he has to research if it's been invented already, come up with materials necessary and make a model. They have to display their invention so parents can come see. He's stressing out over this because his teacher said the materials he chose wouldn't work and he's a mess.

 

And I am no help at all-- I did a similar project when I was in my g&t program in elem school. I HATED IT! I'm not creative like that. I thought my invention was stupid and I knew my teacher thought it was stupid. I hated the whole assignment and I'm reliving in again.

 

I would strongly encourage DS to just skip the whole assignment, but it's a big portion of his grade and that really stresses him out.

 

I don't know if this is a rant or a JAWM or a plea for help. But ugh.

Edited April 27, 2016 by DesertBlossom

[maize]

Sounds like project based learning, but I think that works best when the kids have more control over choosing their projects. Hm, does he have an invention in mind?

[happypamama]

Just my sympathies -- we always had to do the Invention Convention too, and I hated it!

[DesertBlossom]

He's doing all of it by himself. He first had to come up with 4 possible ideas, narrow it down to one and now he's got to come up with the materials required for it, the cost of the materials and make a model. He's just getting frustrated and emotional and I want to tell him not to do it because I am having flashbacks to elementary school. 😆

 

He wants to make a cup that hangs on the side of pot to put your mixing spoon. The teacher said plastic would melt. I told him to write "unmeltable plastic" for the material because I am helpful like that. How is he supposed to make a model? Ugh.

Edited April 27, 2016 by DesertBlossom

[Acorn]

Try a silicone muffin pan

[Arcadia]

. He's stressing out over this because his teacher said the materials he chose wouldn't work and he's a mess.

Did his teacher say why? If not he should ask his teacher to qualify his/her response.

 

Is there a MakerSpace near to you that he can use? Lots of kids and adults do prototyping there and the high school volunteers at my local makerspace are helpful if anyone wants their help.

 

ETA:

This would work

http://www.amazon.com/Dexas-Silicone-Mini-Holder-Purple/dp/B009UDJEFU

Edited April 27, 2016 by Arcadia

[Acorn]

Try a silicone muffin pan, he can probably cut it to shape to demonstrate.

[Tanaqui]

That's a lot of work for a ten year old. Honestly, I'd ask him if he's okay taking the hit to his grade, and if he is, write his teacher a note saying your family will not be participating in this project. Life is too short to spend on stupid projects, and it's not like they'll look at his 5th grade report card when he applies to college.

[DesertBlossom]

And while I'm ranting, another one of his teachers has the kids do a rather lengthy book project each quarter on a book they read in class. It's not even fun or creative. I am seriously tempted to write an anonymous postcard that says "Wow, way to make the kids hate this book."

[katilac]

He's doing all of it by himself. He first had to come up with 4 possible ideas, narrow it down to one and now he's got to come up with the materials required for it, the cost of the materials and make a model. He's just getting frustrated and emotional and I want to tell him not to do it because I am having flashbacks to elementary school. 😆

 

He wants to make a cup that hangs on the side of pot to put your mixing spoon. The teacher said plastic would melt. I told him to write "unmeltable plastic" for the material because I am helpful like that. How is he supposed to make a model? Ugh.

 

Silicone, like spatulas and oven mitts and baking mats (that go in the oven and don't melt). Use plastic and tell her it's a conceptual model. 

 

Good lord, I did that invention project in the late 1970s, can they not come up with a new G/T project? 

[Arcadia]

He wants to make a cup that hangs on the side of pot to put your mixing spoon. The teacher said plastic would melt. I told him to write "unmeltable plastic" for the material because I am helpful like that. How is he supposed to make a model? Ugh.

This

http://www.amazon.com/Dexas-Silicone-Mini-Holder-Purple/dp/B009UDJEFU

 

 

ETA:

Bed Bath & Beyond has those kind

Edited April 27, 2016 by Arcadia

[DesertBlossom]

Try a silicone muffin pan, he can probably cut it to shape to demonstrate.

That's brilliant! See, I never would have thought of that.

[katilac]

And I just remembered what my invention was; it was a Rid-a-Kid gun, that you could aim at annoying children in order to teleport them away. It was a conceptual model that looked like a red rifle, and I claimed that my teleportation theory was proprietary. 

 

Ah, the good old days, when you could bring a facsimile of a rifle to school and just get a bad grade, not arrested . . . 

[Tanaqui]

And while I'm ranting, another one of his teachers has the kids do a rather lengthy book project each quarter on a book they read in class. It's not even fun or creative. I am seriously tempted to write an anonymous postcard that says "Wow, way to make the kids hate this book."

 

Each quarter? Lucky, we had to do one monthly.

 

Heck, when the younger one was in the gifted class (which we pulled her out of after 1st grade - the commute was too long) they were supposed to do it every month and also, like, do some drawing or make a mask or whatever. I'm sure the teacher thought this was SUPER fun and creative, but coming after a literally hour long commute (one way!) I wanted to scream. I finally asked her if she had any kids of her own, and yeah, her eldest was three. When her eldest turned six, I hope she wised up and stopped assigning those projects.

[DesertBlossom]

This

http://www.amazon.com/Dexas-Silicone-Mini-Holder-Purple/dp/B009UDJEFU

 

 

ETA:

Bed Bath & Beyond has those kind

I thought that was pretty smart! I didn't even know they had silicone muffin tins and such. Have I been living under a rock? But I showed it to him and he burst into tears and said it wasn't even inventing it if he used that. And he may be misinformed, but he think he has to have 4 different materials listed.

 

I told him to just to change the material to silicone and see if his teacher accepts that.

[Tanaqui]

Seriously, I strongly suggest writing a letter of complaint to the teacher and the principal, telling them that your child was driven to tears over this stupid assignment. And what time is it where you are anyway? Here it's almost 1am! Are you in America? We don't have that many time zones, do we? How late is he even staying up over this?

Edited April 27, 2016 by Tanaqui

[DesertBlossom]

Each quarter? Lucky, we had to do one monthly.

 

Heck, when the younger one was in the gifted class (which we pulled her out of after 1st grade - the commute was too long) they were supposed to do it every month and also, like, do some drawing or make a mask or whatever. I'm sure the teacher thought this was SUPER fun and creative, but coming after a literally hour long commute (one way!) I wanted to scream. I finally asked her if she had any kids of her own, and yeah, her eldest was three. When her eldest turned six, I hope she wised up and stopped assigning those projects.

His school is a long bus ride away as well. I love that the curriculum is challenging. He needs to be challenged. But I wish they didn't have any homework. Like none.

[zoobie]

They make plastic that stands up to high temps! Wth. http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B001Q6GZFG/

 

Spoon that sits on the pot rim and doesn't melt.

[DesertBlossom]

Seriously, I strongly suggest writing a letter of complaint to the teacher and the principal, telling them that your child was driven to tears over this stupid assignment. And what time is it where you are anyway? Here it's almost 1am! Are you in America? We don't have that many time zones, do we? How late is he even staying up over this?

I can't give away my location on the internet. 😆 It's only 10 here. He really hasn't spent that much time on it, we just had a busy afternoon.

 

When he first came home with the assignment my first thought was "how is any 10 year old going to come up with an idea that isn't invented already?" The fact that I don't have a single creative bone in my body is what makes me hate this.

[Acorn]

I had no idea it was already a thing, guess the teacher doesn't either. I feel for you, I hated assignments like that. My 10 year old is currently photographing clouds to make an identification poster. I'll be glad once this project is done.

[Tsuga]

Ds10 goes to a public school that is kind of a full time g&t program. I like many things about the school. I hate some of the homework they give.

 

He is supposed to come up with this elaborate plan for an invention-- he has to research if it's been invented already, come up with materials necessary and make a model. They have to display their invention so parents can come see. He's stressing out over this because his teacher said the materials he chose wouldn't work and he's a mess.

 

And I am no help at all-- I did a similar project when I was in my g&t program in elem school. I HATED IT! I'm not creative like that. I thought my invention was stupid and I knew my teacher thought it was stupid. I hated the whole assignment and I'm reliving in again.

 

I would strongly encourage DS to just skip the whole assignment, but it's a big portion of his grade and that really stresses him out.

 

I don't know if this is a rant or a JAWM or a plea for help. But ugh.

 

I had that assignment in a G&T program as well!

 

I did a GREAT job and actually 20 years later I found that my invention had made it to market! And I checked the patent and it was 5 years after I had invented it! Not that I mind that, I didn't have the money or drive to bring it to market. Point is, I feel validated that it was a great idea.

 

But they did a contest for 'best invention' and the one that won was this kid who invented something that already existed. I was so pissed off. I had actually made a working model of my invention. He did not and could not (his was a dreamer-type invention, a watch for the blind... which existed).

 

I am still bitter about the vote, LOL.

 

So I share your irrational pain here.

[Eagle]

If it makes you feel better, my invention for that project in school was cookware that could be used in the microwave, on the stovetop and go in the freezer. Complete with rubber lids for freezer/fridge storage. My teacher gave me a mediocre grade because she said it would be impossible to have a material that could withstand stovetop heat and the freezer.

 

I feel vindicated that I have a freezer stocked full of those containers today.

[SparklyUnicorn]

What I hated about these things as a kid is it was obvious a lot of kids had their parent's help.  If it isn't doable pretty much on their own I see no point in assigning it.

 

 

[Valley Girl]

If it makes you feel better, my invention for that project in school was cookware that could be used in the microwave, on the stovetop and go in the freezer. Complete with rubber lids for freezer/fridge storage. My teacher gave me a mediocre grade because she said it would be impossible to have a material that could withstand stovetop heat and the freezer.

 

I feel vindicated that I have a freezer stocked full of those containers today.

 

I'd be tempted to send a nyah, nyah letter to that teacher. Seriously, if you're going to require kids to invent something, at least have the imagination to think the material might one day exist and give them credit for their vision.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Yeah coming up with ideas for inventions is not easy.  One of mine was watching one of these maker shows and he was all excited...hey maybe he'll invent something too.  So he got out a notebook (he's 10) and he's ready to come up with his invention...and wouldn't that be cool if he could.  So a few minutes in he said to me, "So Mom, what should I invent?"  LOL  Beats me kid...beats me.  That was the end of that. 

 

 

[Bluegoat]

I had a project like that at about that age.  I feel like it had some really good elements but some difficult ones too.

 

The most useful was the idea that we would identify some problem that an invention or technology could perhaps help with, and have some idea how it might work.  THat was an interesting exersize in thinking and observing and problem solving.

 

Figuring out how to make it work, and how to make the model, was much more difficult, and it was really about lack of mechanical knowledge or the ability to fabricate things.  It's one thing to identify a problem, another to solve it if you don't know how to build or use even the simple machines, much less anything more sophisticated.

 

I found the outcome of all this work frustrating too.  My invention was a sort of hook so that women with zippers up the back of a dress could do it up without help.  I managed, rather weirdly, to figure out what it should look like and how it should work, in a dream.  My step-father really came up with the plan to build it, which was pretty simple, but not something I would possibly have thought of - it used a piece of coat hanger, a dowel, and a paper clip.  I wouldn't have even known how to attach the things.  So while it was a good learning experience on building something, it was really my step-dad that did the teaching which seems a little unfair to me.

 

At the end, all the school presented their inventions in a fair and there were prizes.  I was so ticked off - the winner was a huge contraption for feeding goldfish while you were on vacation.  It involved rolling balls, levers, all that kind of thing.  I just thought - you can't start the machine (by dropping a ball) if you are on vacation.  And why go through all those useless steps with levers and balls, they don't get the food in the bowl any better or faster.

[KungFuPanda]

Take him on a field trip to the hardware store. He's bound to find something cheap and made of metal that will suit his purpose even if he has to line it with foil to prevent drips. Or use a coat hanger and an empty can if you wanna go zero-budget.

Edited April 27, 2016 by KungFuPanda

[vonfirmath]

Seriously, I strongly suggest writing a letter of complaint to the teacher and the principal, telling them that your child was driven to tears over this stupid assignment. And what time is it where you are anyway? Here it's almost 1am! Are you in America? We don't have that many time zones, do we? How late is he even staying up over this?

 

There are 9 standard time Zones in America.

Atlantic Standard Time (AST), Eastern Standard Time (EST), Central Standard Time (CST), Mountain Standard Time (MST), Pacific Standard Time (PST), Alaskan Standard Time (AKST), Hawaii-Aleutian Standard Time (HST), Samoa standard time (UTC-11) and Chamorro Standard Time (UTC+10).

[vonfirmath]

What I hated about these things as a kid is it was obvious a lot of kids had their parent's help.  If it isn't doable pretty much on their own I see no point in assigning it.

 

People here have described projects they came up with. Others come up with inventions that are pretty off the wall (I did a watch with a friend inside -- something like the tamiguchi watches that were later popular? I used a Lego minifig to represent the "person" and went creative writing all about it.)  Sure, it wasn't a working model. But it didn't have to be.

 

[EmseB]

I remember that project! I remember mine, which was some sort of device that collected an outfit from my dresser and brought it to my bed in the morning. I was not a morning person. :p. But all I had to do was build a diorama of how it might look, which was predictably lame.

 

 

But I also remember the kid that won made a thing that solved the problem of ketchup coming out of the bottle too slow. He took a half full ketchup bottle, put a bendy straw in it and then put some stickers on the side that looked liked gears to represent some kind of motor.

[KungFuPanda]

If it makes you feel better, my invention for that project in school was cookware that could be used in the microwave, on the stovetop and go in the freezer. Complete with rubber lids for freezer/fridge storage. My teacher gave me a mediocre grade because she said it would be impossible to have a material that could withstand stovetop heat and the freezer.

 

I feel vindicated that I have a freezer stocked full of those containers today.

That's nuts! I'll bet your teacher even owned some Corningware and didn't think about it. Sheesh.

[SparklyUnicorn]

maybe he should propose the invention of "project idea generator" for those people who just can't come up with project ideas

 

:laugh:

[SKL]

That would stress me and my kids out too.  :P  This is one of the reasons I'm not sure I want to get my kid into the gifted program.  It's hard to be "creative" on command.

[wintermom]

Take him on a field trip to the hardware store. He's bound to find something cheap and made of metal that will suit his purpose even if he has to line it with foil to prevent drips. Or use a coat hanger and an empty can if you wanna go zero-budget.

 

:iagree:   Sometimes kids are way more creative when they have a few different materials in from of them.  Take a trip to a dollar store, pet store, WallMart, or hardware store to get some ideas of things already out there, and what materials are actually available. There are so many cool things in a hardware store that could spark some really creative ideas. 

[UCF612]

I've always wanted something that would hold a jar over the pot to drain out the last of the sauce. Does that exist?

[ErinE]

60-70 Algebra problems, every night, for the past three weeks. It's been 2-3 hours of homework, just for math. I haven't complained because my son is the only seventh grader in the class and I didn't want to give the appearance he couldn't handle the workload. The teacher finally sent out an email last night saying the students won't be graded on the homework going forward. It seems other parents were unhappy.

 

She excused it by saying it was a high school level class so the parents should expect it. I was never assigned that many math problems in high school. The worst part to me is it's the same thing, over and over. It's not like AoPS where the problems get progressively harder or require additional understanding. It's just computation, but even a few minutes per problem quickly adds up when so many are assigned.

[Tsuga]

What I hated about these things as a kid is it was obvious a lot of kids had their parent's help.  If it isn't doable pretty much on their own I see no point in assigning it.

 

Well at 10 in a G&T program if you can't do this assignment, probably wrong program, but still.

[Tanaqui]

Well at 10 in a G&T program if you can't do this assignment, probably wrong program, but still.

 

No. Just, no. There are all sorts of things that could keep a 10 year old from doing this assignment, ranging from overly-picky teachers to problems with time management, and none of them have anything to do with the criteria for getting into a GT program - either test grades or IQ scores, usually.

[luuknam]

Deep breath. You're not in school anymore. I hated that stuff as a kid as well, largely because the expectations were unclear, given the very limited skills kids have (don't gifted 10yos have a tendency to want to make these things too perfect, and often have a misunderstanding of what even college-educated adults do for prototypes, as opposed to finished product?).

 

It's a worthwhile project, though I think it'd be better in the classroom than as homework, at least for a 10yo, and with a knowledgeable teacher who knows how to scaffold these things. I really think most school teach too few of these practical skills, as opposed to book knowledge, or worse, how to ace a standardized test.

 

So, my approach would be: "Son, this is new to you, and something I'm not good at either. I'm totally okay if you get a C or worse on this project, so long as you learn something from it."

 

Like others have said, take him to a hardware store. For materials you've already gotten good suggestions, but you can always send him on a scavenger hunt around the house etc to see how many different materials he can find. I'm also not clear on whether he *has* to do something that hasn't been invented already - you said he needs to look up if it's been invented already, but you didn't say he had to reject the idea if he finds out it has been invented already. Maybe the teacher simply wants the kids to learn how to find out whether it's been invented yet (useful skill), but doesn't care for the actual project. Clarify with teacher whether the project needs to contain 4 different materials (that's a lot, and in real inventions, less is more).

 

I just happened to watch the Gilmore Girls episode yesterday in which they had to make a marketable product, and Paris suggested a first aid kit for high school students to keep in their lockers. The idea was to put leopard prints or w/e on them, and neon band-aids etc. Not exactly the same as inventing something, but then and again, based on the stuff that gets patented, I wouldn't be shocked if "leopard print first aid kit with neon bandages" could count as an invention (Amazon's one-click checkout counted as an invention, though widely held as an example of the stupidity of the patenting process these days).

 

Anyway, good luck, and don't stress out about it too much. Keep it about learning something new, and not about the product or the grade.

[luuknam]

Well at 10 in a G&T program if you can't do this assignment, probably wrong program, but still.

 

Or the 10yo has never been taught the skills required. There are a lot of skills involved in a project like that, and with schools focusing on standardized tests and book knowledge from preschool on up, I think plenty of 10yos have never been taught how to tackle a project like that. That doesn't mean that they couldn't learn how to do it, or that they're not intelligent. My 8.5yo can't tie his shoelaces either. That doesn't mean he's stupid. He's just never been taught (he doesn't have shoes with shoelaces), and it's not something you magically just know how to do at a certain age.

 

ETA: missing 'not'.

Edited April 27, 2016 by luuknam

[vonfirmath]

She is likely thinking 20 to 30 sec per exercise.my kid had no ability to write that fast, so we put him on a timer, worked on blank paper, and taught him how to speed it up.I scribed everything over the 20 minutes allocated while he was learning. He highlighted his answers and solutions until he learned the skill of transferring them from his work paper to the assignment sheet quickly. i am actually grateful because it was my tipoff that he really was unfocused and was still reverting to drawing the numbers and letters. The Common Core elementary worksheets I have seen are just as bad as nclb worksheets in terms of workspace allowed for the students on the lower range of penmanship skills. In conference, the teacher said the objective was fluency for the parent placed children, who really did need the extra work for mastery, and filling up study hall time.

 

In 3rd grade I have noticed this problem (not enough room on the page to work the problems).  But I have not successfully gotten my son to work the problem on another page yet. I keep nudging and suggesting.  HOWEVER, his teacher seems to be able to read his math and find the answer (though I'll keep the highlighter in mind for next year when he's going to be in a more accelerated program)

 

Edited April 27, 2016 by vonfirmath

[SparklyUnicorn]

Well at 10 in a G&T program if you can't do this assignment, probably wrong program, but still.

 

Not necessarily.  A person could be highly gifted in math, or a highly gifted writer, but then flounder at inventing something. 

 

 

[catz]

Not necessarily.  A person could be highly gifted in math, or a highly gifted writer, but then flounder at inventing something. 

 

 

 

Absolutely.  Not enjoying or embracing an assignment like this has absolutely nothing to do with NOT being GT.  Especially younger GT kids might have huge ideas but not have the executive function to get it done or get frustrated with the process.  Sometimes constraints feel too limiting to kids like this.  Ask me how I know.  ;)

 

There's a reason we homeschool our GT kids.  GT programs are often a joke and involve a bunch of busy work and we toured a bunch of them. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Absolutely.  Not enjoying or embracing an assignment like this has absolutely nothing to do with NOT being GT.  Especially younger GT kids might have huge ideas but not have the executive function to get it done or get frustrated with the process.  Sometimes constraints feel too limiting to kids like this.  Ask me how I know.  ;)

 

There's a reason we homeschool our GT kids.  GT programs are often a joke and involve a bunch of busy work and we toured a bunch of them. 

 

Yeah in my experience GT programs just pile on more work rather than change the type of work or replace the regular work.

 

I see nothing horribly wrong with the assignment, but it might be better to offer an alternative.  For example, if you can't come up with an invention, learn about an inventor or invention and present that information on a poster or something.

[rebcoola]

I did that  in my G&T program to and hated every second of it.  No advice ust sympathy.

[catz]

Oh - and I was going to add my DS went to school for 2 years.  The other stupid thing about projects like this is your kid is at school 6-8 hours a day.  And then they still have a bunch of busy paper type homework to do.  And they are still supposed to find the time and energy to enthusiastically and creatively tackle a project like this.  Good one.  It's no wonder why so many parents end up getting involved. 

 

It'd be different if they stopped everything and said - kids for the next 2 weeks, we're each going to work on our own inventions and walk through a design and building and presentation process.  So much of the crap kids do like this end up being a waste of time because something gets thrown together.

[Tsuga]

No. Just, no. There are all sorts of things that could keep a 10 year old from doing this assignment, ranging from overly-picky teachers to problems with time management, and none of them have anything to do with the criteria for getting into a GT program - either test grades or IQ scores, usually.

 

Overly picky teachers would result in a low grade. So would lack of organizational skills.

 

 

I guess my idea of an accelerated program is one in which the work is consistently challenging and pushing children with an extremely high IQ to push the limits of their abilities--including in terms of organizational skills and creativity.

 

In the fifth grade, every single child in our school district, including in specially accommodated classrooms, does a science fair project, plays an instrument in a concert, does a model of an architectural feat, and does a 10-page report (double spaced) on an historical figure.

 

Some of the projects really suck and not because the kids are stupid but because they spend zero time on it.

 

They still do it, and we do not have a 0% prevalence of ADHD in this district. There are kids with all kinds of disabilities AND no high IQ who manage.

 

So, no, I really think that if you absolutely cannot do a project like that without your parents help at the age of 10--not, "can't get an A", not "can't do it without whining", not, "don't do it until the last minute" but really cannot do it at all, then you need to be in a program with extensive supports. Not in a program in which the goal is to challenge extremely highly capable and talented children to push themselves to the limits.

 

Please note I am not suggesting anyone is stupid.

 

If the kid got in because they are a testing genius, then again, not saying the kid is stupid, but that's not the program for them. They need a program that speaks to and works with their strengths.

 

Otherwise, if the program is going to cater to the lowest ability of every kid there, it's not going to be very challenging for gifted kids at all.

[Tanaqui]

In the fifth grade, every single child in our school district, including in specially accommodated classrooms, does a science fair project, plays an instrument in a concert, does a model of an architectural feat, and does a 10-page report (double spaced) on an historical figure.

 

But they're not being asked to invent something brand new that nobody else has ever invented before in the entire history of humankind? With a model?

[ErinE]

She is likely thinking 20 to 30 sec per exercise.my kid had no ability to write that fast, so we put him on a timer, worked on blank paper, and taught him how to speed it up.I scribed everything over the 20 minutes allocated while he was learning. He highlighted his answers and solutions until he learned the skill of transferring them from his work paper to the assignment sheet quickly. i am actually grateful because it was my tipoff that he really was unfocused and was still reverting to drawing the numbers and letters. The Common Core elementary worksheets I have seen are just as bad as nclb worksheets in terms of workspace allowed for the students on the lower range of penmanship skills. In conference, the teacher said the objective was fluency for the parent placed children, who really did need the extra work for mastery, and filling up study hall time.

These are algebra problems. Fluency isn't an issue. This is a kid who completed an end of course pre-algebra exam in an hour when it was allotted three hours. It was obvious by the email sent out last night that other parents had complained. The exam she is prepping them for will have 70-90 problems and 3 hours to complete. Sending out its equivalent every night for two weeks straight is excessive.

[Garga]

I've always wanted something that would hold a jar over the pot to drain out the last of the sauce. Does that exist?

Rubber (or silicon today) spatula? I have regular sized ones and a skinny one for skinny bottles. There are only a few bottles too skinny for a spatula.