Supporting a child in college - WWYD or WHYD

[*lifeoftheparty*]

....

 

Edited December 18, 2016 by *lifeoftheparty*

[SparklyUnicorn]

I wish people would stop suggesting the military. The military is not some dump where you can just throw anyone who isn't winning at life.

 

I was in the Army. Quite honestly/frankly, I would not want a person with his mental issues to be my "comrade in arms." The people in your platoon are those people who would be covering your back, either "technically" or personally, should you ever go to war when "shit gets real." I just would not want to trust my life to someone with those issues.... and the Army probably wouldn't want to trust him either! I'm pretty sure that if he has documented rad or something like that, he wouldn't be selected anyways....

 

I hope that doesn't come across as bashing your son OP, I don't mean it too.... but you mentioned attachment disorder(s), and he clearly has issues... and people like that just aren't the best equipped to be a part of a team where you have to think about the safety/well being of others.

 

A yup.  I was going to join myself.  I didn't go through with it.  I did drills for a year and had signed when I was 17 so when it came time to officially go to basic I changed my mind (and that was not a big deal).  I don't think it would have been good for me.  I was interested mostly for the GI Bill.  But to me if someone is not committed to what the military is ultimately all about, they probably should not go there (just for the GI Bill). 

 

And someone with certain psychological issues REALLY should not go.  In fact if when they do the physical they pick up on that fact, they will probably reject to allow the person in.  At least they probably should. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

My thoughts about letting him do this verses insisting he stay home is him staying home may be too distracting to him if he is extremely unhappy with the home situation.  And I'm sure that hurts your feelings.  You've helped him in so many ways that he probably won't realize until many years from now.  He's probably been hurt by people he should have been able to trust (I don't mean you).  I can't imagine being 13 and adopted against my will.  That's not going to be something he'll get over easily. 

Of course this is dependent upon whether you have the means to help.  I don't suggest you go into crazy debt either.  If you can't afford it, you can't afford it. 

 

[ktgrok]

With the money for lunch at school, I just meant give him some weekly, rather than a year at a time. So if he blows it he only has to figure out what to do for a few days, rather than months. And gets another chance to practice budgeting the next week. 

 

[*lifeoftheparty*]

...

 

Edited December 18, 2016 by *lifeoftheparty*

[wendy not in HI]

Reading through this thread is so sad!  I'm sad for you and for him.  It must be hard to parent someone who doesn't want that!  It also is hard to be 17.  I have a just-turned-18-year-old at my house and she has always been a strong personality.  She wants what she wants and what she wants is generally not what I want... She is not easy to live with.  She is extremely busy with school and extracurriculars and friends.  She rarely eats with us, but regardless of why she didn't eat with us, she is always welcome to eat our leftovers.  Sometimes she is home and napping during dinner -- and I still let her eat the leftovers.  She rarely helps with any clean up. And I still let her eat whatever I made or whatever she can scrounge up.  I'm also willing to make an egg sandwich at any time, even if there is perfectly good leftovers in the fridge.  She needs to eat, I want her to eat, she isn't often able or willing to eat with us, and I'm okay with that.  She's also a picky eater and always has been a picky eater and I'm willing to work with that at this point.  When she was younger, I was more strict about eating what I had fixed, but I've relaxed over the years and it has helped our relationship, and she's still picky.  It's really not a big deal.  Kids are busy and family dinner is not a priority for them.  I'm just writing this all out because I hope you can see that not having dinner with family is pretty normal for older teens.  

 

My 18 year old daughter is also very aware of brands and trends and clothes and shoes.  I have let her use her money (and my money) to buy things that I think are silly, because she needed them.  My heart breaks a little for your son and his hundred dollar shoes.  Shoes just are expensive.  Shoes for little kids can be purchased at Target.  Cute shoes for girls can be purchased cheap at Old Navy or Ross.  But nice shoes for boys are seriously expensive.  It's terrible but it's true.  My husband's shoes are expensive.  He only has a few pairs, but he is particular about what he wears and prefers quality over quantity.  My son is just 12 and I'm finding that the big boy/small man shoes are hard to find and expensive.  I can no longer grab a pair of slide on shoes from Walmart and call it good.  That's just the way it us.  I am just writing this because I think you are maybe irritated by your son's fashion choices, and I want you to see that he's not alone in this.  It really isn't out of the ordinary to want a nice pair of shoes.  

 

I think the weekly food budget is a good idea.  A semester's worth of money is really too much.  I think that's why my husband's job pays him every two weeks.  He is salaried, and could maybe be paid once a year, but the every two weeks things really helps keep us in check.  Learning to budget is a life long skill.  I wonder if it would be possible to even now start the weekly school lunch budget?  Maybe you can say: "I really blew it by giving you your whole food budget back in January.  I'm sorry!  Let's start fresh.  Here's the plan.  I will deposit $20 into your school account every two weeks.  You can get the normal school lunch each day, or you can buy more, but you will run out of funds before I deposit more.  It's up to you how you spend it."  Then he's just hungry for a few days and not for the entire semester.

 

But your really question was how much do we help our college student. We have a 21 year old daughter in college.  She has a scholarship that pays for her tuition.  We helped pay for books. She had a great job last summer and was able to save enough to pay her rent for the year - she saved about $4000.  Rent is $400 a month.  She has a job now that pays for most of her expenses.  We give her a couple hundred dollars a month to help with expenses.  We pay for her cell phone.  She was ill and we sent more money for that month to cover her missed work.  We also payed copays for medical appointments, etc. 

 

She worked with a moving company last summer (in the office.)  That may be a good match for your son this summer - there were several young (strong) men working there, packing up and moving homes.  

 

It sounds like he is doing okay, even if things are not going perfectly.  He is graduating early!  He has been accepted to school for an education that will lead to an actual job!  Wow! He's doing great!  He has grant money!!  That is wonderful.  If it were me, I would look at my budget and see what I could do to help.  Maybe half of his rent and some spending money? 

 

 

[Haiku]

But nice shoes for boys are seriously expensive.  It's terrible but it's true.  

 

My son is 13 and has been wearing man-size shoes for 2 years. I purchase quality shoes on Amazon very inexpensively because I purchase the previous model. For example, I just purchased him a very nice pair of Nikes that are not the current model, and I paid $45.

 

Just an aside, I know. But if my son wanted $100 shoes, I would tell him I would pay for the $45 pair and he could pay the rest. Shoes don't have to be ridiculously expensive to be nice.

[lllll]

nm

Edited April 20, 2016 by _ ?^..

[eternalsummer]

I could understand with an older child especially. Our son has been living with us since just after his 11th birthday. It's just hard to know what is best always.

 

Off topic but I just started reading about how a bunch of adoptees are angry that their adopted parents gave them new last names (not new first names, just the family last name). One more thing to keep me up at night worrying if we messed up. Even people who were adopted as infants are angry about it. It never would have crossed my mind as something to get upset about.

 

Name is pretty closely tied to identity.  Why would you change someone's last name without their consent?  I can see being pretty upset about it, especially if I'd been put in a situation (via adpotion) where I was unwillingly disconnected from my family/heritage/community, and then someone took away the remaining connection to that heritage by erasing my personal and legal connection to it (that is, my name).

 

On the topic at hand: No, he doesn't sound particularly ready for college.  He does sound pretty determined to get away from the rest of the family.  If college is a relatively safe and cheap place for him to do that (compared to moving in with friends or just leaving and winding up homeless or whatever his other options are) I would try to find a way for him to figure it out.

 

If you were willing to pay $x for college that is how much I'd pay.  I wouldn't worry much about whether it went to books or tuition or room&board.  Beyond that I'd say, I'm sorry, we don't have any extra $, but here are some ways you can try to make it up (working during the summer, student loans, etc.)

[Ravin]

Re: Military, yup. what others have said.

 

Re: Budget: A weekly budget based on X for food, X for clothing, X for personal care items sounds like a good idea. That, or just X for food, X for personal care items, and do a quarterly or by semester clothing budget.

 

$100 for shoes is not unreasonable, especially if he knows how to shop bargains and can walk into a secondhand store and come out with a complete wardrobe of clothing for under under that same price. Honestly, I as a student and now a practicing attorney buy slacks and dress shirts and ties and casual clothing at Goodwill, and save the significant $$ spending on myself for shoes and suits--the latter mostly because I need them to fit properly and can't find such in Goodwill, the former because I only own a few pairs of shoes so might as well get good ones.

[Mergath]

Sounds like somebody might need some military training.

 

Wow, no. Have you been in the military? That would be a terrible place for an angry teen with attachment issues. 

[brynndolyn]

He didn't need shoes, he always has lots and lots of shoes. Which do fit him. I'd guess right now he has at least 8 pairs of shoes that fit him and are in good shape (I'm not an authority on what is cool or not so i don't know about that but I know he prefers Jordans and Converse). I get it it's cool to have the current pair of shoes. And i don't feel bad about not wanting to pay a hundred plus bucks for more and more shoes. I think you guys must think we are really mean but we aren't I promise! :)

 

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[SparklyUnicorn]

He didn't need shoes, he always has lots and lots of shoes. Which do fit him. I'd guess right now he has at least 8 pairs of shoes that fit him and are in good shape (I'm not an authority on what is cool or not so i don't know about that but I know he prefers Jordans and Converse). I get it it's cool to have the current pair of shoes. And i don't feel bad about not wanting to pay a hundred plus bucks for more and more shoes. I think you guys must think we are really mean but we aren't I promise! :)

 

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Under those circumstances I wouldn't pay for new shoes either.  I don't think you need to feel bad.  If he wants something like that then he can spend his own money on it. 

[katilac]

I would let him know the amount of financial help we could offer and then let him make the decision. 

 

I don't think going away to college to study to be an electrician is a bad idea at all. Might he crash and burn? Sure, he might, but he also might step up to the plate if he wants it enough. 

 

It sounds like he really does want/need to get away, and I think that willingly being in college, studying a trade, is the best of the choices. Job Corps might work, but not if he doesn't want it, and honestly, it tends to be not a great environment. 

 

If possible, I would give him the chance to prove himself. Even without all the traumas of late adoption and so forth, many teens are really just chomping at the bit to get away from home. My dd is going away to college in fall, and she shocked me by wanting to go early for summer school! She's a happy kid, close to her family, but she wants to GO. 

[catz]

I would let him know the amount of financial help we could offer and then let him make the decision. 

 

I don't think going away to college to study to be an electrician is a bad idea at all. Might he crash and burn? Sure, he might, but he also might step up to the plate if he wants it enough. 

 

It sounds like he really does want/need to get away, and I think that willingly being in college, studying a trade, is the best of the choices. Job Corps might work, but not if he doesn't want it, and honestly, it tends to be not a great environment. 

 

If possible, I would give him the chance to prove himself. Even without all the traumas of late adoption and so forth, many teens are really just chomping at the bit to get away from home. My dd is going away to college in fall, and she shocked me by wanting to go early for summer school! She's a happy kid, close to her family, but she wants to GO. 

 

I do agree that it would require buy in for Job Corp.  And I do think it can be not a great environment.  But I would also say, dorms can be rough environments too.  Job corp is a more rigid, structured environment designed to walk young adults through life skills training.  Sending a kid to college, there is much less of a safety net typically.  It is very sink or swim.  There are options for many areas and can and does lead to college. 

 

https://recruiting.jobcorps.gov/SiteInfo/Careers

 

And I am not a job corp recruiter or anything.  It has been a good next step for a few young people I know who were not good military candidates but didn't quite have the executive function and academic skills for college upon graduation.   I would least educate him of this choice and the financial advantages.  I'd look carefully at what student loan payments are going to look like over time.  ETA - it might be beneficial to have a neutral 3rd party to walk through the details of the finances would be if possible

 

Again, I am truly disgusted that your school will so easily graduate a student a year early unprepared for college and not council a kid through good next options considering their academic backgrounds.  It's like they just want kids out the door.  Is this a public school?

 

If he has 8 pairs of shoes, that's about 6 more pairs than my 15 year old.  LOL.  It's a good pair of running shoes, cheap dress shoes, and that's it!   Summer sandals and boots are in the mix at time, but doesn't have a pair of either that currently fits. 

Edited April 17, 2016 by WoolySocks

[Haiku]

Name is pretty closely tied to identity.  Why would you change someone's last name without their consent?  

 

Because children deserve to be in families that care for them, and they deserve to be integrated into that family as much as possible and not marked out as different by their name. I do not at all regret changing my dd's last name even though she didn't want to. She didn't like it for years and planned to change her name when she turned 18. Occasionally she would bring it up and, recently, at age 21.5, she announced that she planned to keep her name because it's her name. Yes, the one we gave her, the one she didn't want (last name; we kept her original first name).

 

I would not adopt a child and make them obviously different by having a different last name. I would pay for a name change when the child became an adult if continuing to have the family name was intolerable to them.

[brynndolyn]

Because children deserve to be in families that care for them, and they deserve to be integrated into that family as much as possible and not marked out as different by their name. I do not at all regret changing my dd's last name even though she didn't want to. She didn't like it for years and planned to change her name when she turned 18. Occasionally she would bring it up and, recently, at age 21.5, she announced that she planned to keep her name because it's her name. Yes, the one we gave her, the one she didn't want (last name; we kept her original first name).

 

I would not adopt a child and make them obviously different by having a different last name. I would pay for a name change when the child became an adult if continuing to have the family name was intolerable to them.

I'd also add - how can you get consent from a child who is 2, 3, or 4 (the siblings ages when we adopted them)? They certainly can't grant it, they don't truly understand. We did what we thought was best which included having our oldest keep his biological family last name as one of his middle names. His first and first middle names weren't changed at all.

 

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[FaithManor]

Gently here, nothing you do will be right in his eyes because he has an attachment disorder. Sorry. I used to be a respite care worker for foster parents with a RAD child in the home. I have seen enough to know that this is fact.

 

So the answer is, What is best for your family? What allows your conscience to be clear while not enabling dangerous behavior?

 

There are three other children at least (not certain if you had children before the sib group arrived), but one thing to consider is college money for everyone? Do not provide more than you will be able to do for the others as this will promote bitterness and resentment between them. If you would not pay for dorms at the community college for the others, I would not consider it now under these circumstances. Look for ways to show him you care. Care packages, groceries, bus money,pay for books. Possibly offer a little tuition assistance as along as he is passing, buy him some clothes when his wear out, etc. No signing for student loans.

 

He will move out, run away, whatever and there is little you can do to stop it that would be healthy for your family. That said, sometimes "reality bites",the cold truth of life outside mom and dad's protection is what can help a RAD come around and decide to get along with those that are trying to help them. Not always, but it does happen. Dear friends of ours who had three RAD kids thought they would never hear from them ever again once they left home except for possibly to demand money or something. But after the world taught them some lessons, they now have very pleasant relationships with their adult children.

Edited April 17, 2016 by FaithManor

[brynndolyn]

Gently here, nothing you do will be right in his eyes because he has an attachment disorder. Sorry. I used to be a respite care worker for foster parents with a RAD child in the home. I have seen enough to know that this is fact.

 

So the answer is, What is best for your family? What allows your conscience to be clear while not enabling dangerous behavior?

 

There are three other children at least (not certain if you had children before the sib group arrived), but one thing to consider is college monry for everyone? Do not provide more than you will be able to do for the others as this will promote bitterness and resentment between them. If you would not pay for dorms at the community college for the others, I would not consider it now under these circumstances. Look for ways to show him you care. Care packages, groceries, bus money,pay for books. Possibly offer a little tuition assistance as along as he is passing, buy him some clothes when his wear out, etc. No signing for student loans.

 

He will move out, run away, whatever and there is little you can do to stop it that would be healthy for your family. That said, sometimes "reality bites",the cold truth of life outside mom and dad's protection is what can help a RAD come around and xecide to get along with those ghat are trying to help them. Not always, but it does happen. Dear friends of ours who had three RAD kids thought they would never hear from them ever again once they left home except for possibly to demand money or something. But after the wod taught them some lessons, they nkw have very pleasant relationships with their adult children.

Thank you, that brought tears to my eyes and you are right. All good things to keep in mind as well.

 

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[SKL]

I think I would sit hm down and tell him how much you are going to give him per academic year, in increments, as long as he is in school (he needs to provide some proof of ongoing enrollment and credits obtained to keep getting funds).  I think I would put the money into his bank account monthly and let him figure out the rest.

 

His time away from you and the natural process of growing up will change how he thinks.  Perhaps for the better, perhaps for the worse.  He needs to know that you are supportive of his dreams but you are not going to support self-destructive choices.  He can always come back if he decides that is the wiser path.

 

I was 16 when I went to college, but I did live with my parents.  My mom and I had some run-ins and I felt rebellious at times, but I always cooled down before I got to the point of packing and leaving.  Partly because I realized that the other options were really just sucky.  On the other hand, my brother did move out and got no finacial support (that I know of).  He was able to hold a job and waited to go to college.

[SKL]

On the topic of scaffolding and his financial education.  I have to say I'm impressed with what the OP has done with her son.  It has given him good experience.  I am not sure what the exact right balance is, but I would err on the side of giving him the opportunity to screw up on purchases that aren't life-or-death.  He's practically an adult; the time for scaffolding is nearly over.

 

I also think the boy doesn't sound like a complete mess.  He graduated and holds a job, knows how to do basic personal maintenance, has a goal for the future, isn't in trouble with the law, still speaks to his folks.  Great job, OP.

[SKL]

The topic of changing last names is an interesting one.  In some countries, you don't adopt a child as your own; he keeps his original family identity.  I can see pros and cons of this.  In the USA we tend to feel that a child wants to be a member of the family, treated the same as if s/he were a bio child.

 

I agree with the OP that it wouldn't have occurred to me that giving my kids my last name would make them angry.  Having the same name as your parent(s) seems to make things smoother in the US, doesn't it?

 

My kids sometimes talk about changing their names back to their birth names.  I say that they are free to do so upon their 18th birthday if they still feel the same.

[Reefgazer]

I think you're justified in refusing to pay dorm costs if finances are tight. However, I do think that there is a benefit to children living in the dorm even though his reason for living in the dorm is totally jacked up. I would cough up half the money required for him to live in the dorm and he would have to cough up the remainder. Be prepared to lose the money and see nothing in return, however, because with his poor attitude towards school and not attending for the right reasons, it's very likely he will not be successful.

 

Our oldest was adopted, against his will, at the age of 13. Yes he's in therapy, it's been a difficult road, ultimately we did what we thought was best at the time. He has a diagnosed attachment disorder and other drama has gone on in the past years, now things are pretty well settled down though which is good.

 

He is graduating from HS this spring, a year early. At his school if you take a full course load you can graduate as a junior. No extra classes are required, you just have to make sure you get all your required senior classes taken your junior year of course.

 

He wants to move out and get away from us. He is going to a community college with dorms about 1.5 hours away. He could live with us for free and go to a community college here, but then of course he'd have to live with us. He has a part time job now, spends most of his money on food because he doesn't want to eat meals with us (yes I'm serious). He was eating all our leftovers and I told him he's welcome to eat leftovers when he eats with us (we all work together to prepare and clean up the meals, not really fair for him to refuse to eat with us and then come home at 10 pm or midnight and eat by himself), we did have his therapists support on that and she wants him to spend time with us. But, it is what it is. He could also cook his own food but he just usually doesn't, he just wants to eat with his friends.

 

So that's kind of the short story, I realize this is way rambling on.

 

We don't have a ton of money. His ACT score was 17, his grades are passing but not great. No scholarships are on the horizon for him. However, he does qualify for the full FAFSA amount. He could go to school for almost free with just that money buuuut he wants to live in the dorms which doubles the cost of his school.

 

He has no car because we said we'd pay half of a car, and match whatever he could save up. He has not been able to save any money so he has no car at this point.

 

We are going to help pay for his college but we are not going to pay for his dorm because he can live with us for free, he's just choosing not to. He's not really going to college to get an education, he's going to get away from us.

 

It is what it is, at this point, I am doing my very best to keep lines of communication open and to be a supportive parent.

 

So my question is. He will be 17 and in college. What do you do, as far as supporting him? Monthly money? Just help pay for the school and expect him to support any extras he wants or needs? If he were 18 I think it would be a bit easier. I'm just curious to get some other people's thoughts on this. I am hoping he will have a job but it's a pretty small town and he has no car to be able to drive to the next town so I'd say job prospects are not great. I will be working with him to try to get him set up with something but obviously we can't like give him a ride to work or something since he'll be so far away. He works at a restaurant right now, but calls in frequently because he needs to "have a social life".

[KungFuPanda]

I'd offer to pay tuition and a small monthly allowance (roughly equal to what it costs to feed, cloth, and keep him in utilities at home.) I would make it clear that there is no money beyond that. I'd expect him to have to drop out after the first semester and not cave to requests of "just a little more money" or "just a small loan." He may surprise you and figure it all out. If not, he'll have to come home or find a way to support himself.

 

I also agree that he doesn't sound like a good fit for the military AT ALL.

Edited April 17, 2016 by KungFuPanda

[katilac]

Occasionally she would bring it up and, recently, at age 21.5, she announced that she planned to keep her name because it's her name.  

 

 

Some adopted children will be angry if you change their last name. Some adopted children will be angry if you don't. 

 

Some adopted and bio kids will be angry if you make sure they can run the household by their teens. Some adopted and bio kids will be angry if you don't, lol. 

 

Parents can't win sometimes. 

[JanetC]

Just wanted to say you have my sympathies. It's a very fine line you're walking somewhere between "supporting his dream to be independent" and "setting him up to fail" mixed with a sidewind of "and he's not going to appreciate whatever I do one whit."

 

Thinking of you as you ponder your options.

[foxbridgeacademy]

Yeah, I do not think putting someone with some serious emotional health issues into the military and handing them a gun, possibly risking PTSD on top of other issues, and having them in a place where other's lives depend on them, is a particularly wise idea. 

 

I think Job Corp or something similar would make a lot more sense. 

 

Also, I'd let the dude eat the leftovers. He's under 18 and having to pay for his own food, and that doesn't seem quite right. I get that it's his choice not to eat meals with you, but if he has a legitimate diagnosis of attachment issues it's really NOT his fault. I do think that if everyone else has to help either cook or clean up, it's reasonable to assign him some other chore, since he missed clean up/cooking time. But I wouldn't withold food from a kid because they didn't help with clean up, which I am sure is how he sees it. 

 

Also, you say that you give him a lump sum for school food/clothes/etc and he mismanages it. So why do that? Sounds like he needs scaffolding, and more time to mature. I'd stop and start giving him one week at a time. When he handles that well go up to a month. But stop setting him up to fail, you know? He says he can't manage the money better, BELEIVE him! He very likely has executive function deficits..it's a brain issue, not a character issue in that case. And if he's under stress to the point he doesn't feel able to eat in his own home that totally messes with your higher order thinking. Even a really great kid, when stressed, will make bad choices, and blow money just to make themselves feel better. adults do it too...that's what they call retail therapy. I really think you need to spend the next few months making some changes. Maybe it won't help, but you will have tried. Let him have free access to the food, help him with his money (that you give him) so he doesn't blow it all at once, etc. I know you are trying to force him to be more responsible but that just doesn't work with some kids. They need time, and if you throw them in the deep end to sink or swim they WILL sink. 

Not to be too harsh but the more I think about it the more I agree with the above.  Not his fault and the more you give( love, care, acceptance) the more you get in return.

[Sdel]

My BTDT advice, drop the strings.  It makes things worse and doesn't do anything for the better.  Figure out what you want to do and do it because you love him and not because you are trying to coerce a relationship.  Focus on sending him a weekly email/text/phone call keeping him up to date on what is going on and extending invites to things.

 

We had the exact situation with my husband's youngest son that you are describing.  Doing everything he can to move out (even tried a CPS report to get removed) and wound up graduated early and placed in college/dorm at 17. 

 

I probably wouldn't do monthly money as it is too easy to abuse and is too enabling.  I'd focus on giving him the tools to be independent (car/place to live might be hard at 17) until he turns 18 and then letting him sink/swim with everything else.  It has nothing to do with being cruel....but it you want to eschew family, then you better be about the business of living your life without your safety net. 

 

You can PM me if you want more of the gritty details of what we did, both right and wrong.

 

Stefanie

[Haiku]

the more you give( love, care, acceptance) the more you get in return.

 

That's not necessarily the case with kids with RAD. Their behavior is motivated by vastly different things than most kids' behavior is, and often, the more you give, the more you get knocked down. There are ways to parent kids with RAD that increase the chances of a successful outcome, but "just love them" or "love them more" aren't among those ways. Kids with RAD need incredibly structured parenting (and I don't mean structure, I mean a specific type of structured parenting) that goes against the instincts of most parents.

[QueenCat]

My BTDT advice, drop the strings.  It makes things worse and doesn't do anything for the better.  Figure out what you want to do and do it because you love him and not because you are trying to coerce a relationship.  Focus on sending him a weekly email/text/phone call keeping him up to date on what is going on and extending invites to things.

 

We had the exact situation with my husband's youngest son that you are describing.  Doing everything he can to move out (even tried a CPS report to get removed) and wound up graduated early and placed in college/dorm at 17. 

 

I probably wouldn't do monthly money as it is too easy to abuse and is too enabling.  I'd focus on giving him the tools to be independent (car/place to live might be hard at 17) until he turns 18 and then letting him sink/swim with everything else.  It has nothing to do with being cruel....but it you want to eschew family, then you better be about the business of living your life without your safety net. 

 

You can PM me if you want more of the gritty details of what we did, both right and wrong.

 

Stefanie

 

Curious to know if your child also was adopted with RAD. Your advice seems contrary to a child diagnosed with RAD, especially the sink and swim stuff.

[clementine]

First of all, I would encourage the National Guard option!  After basic training, one weekend per month and 10 days of annual training is the commitment - with a nice chunk of money that can go toward tuition.  Plus he'll get paid for his weekends/training.  

 

Another option:  If he would agree to an apprenticeship, would you be willing to put the money that you would have put toward his tuition toward an apartment?  It would be cheaper, I'm assuming?  You could put stipulation on that too - come home for one family meal per week?  

[hamzahqadri1]

Understanding children is very difficult. As you all know I've a few in their teens and one headed to Colledge next year. I'd use the suggestion of one of the commentators earlier who said to work with the therapist. Sitting down together and working on a criterion for him is the best. Sometimes love is misunderstood.

May God Help You To Stay Focused For The Years Ahead!

 

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[Sdel]

Curious to know if your child also was adopted with RAD. Your advice seems contrary to a child diagnosed with RAD, especially the sink and swim stuff.

He was not adopted, but he was very much RAD through years of severe systematic parental alienation by his mother (yes, it does exist). The reality is that the OP is not in a position to attach strings to this child or even give him life advice; the attachment isn't there and it isn't the right developmental stage of the child to be trying to create it.

 

Placing a burden to meet a list of requirements where you are checking up on them is a big no. It is just seen as coercive to a child that is making it pretty clear they think you have no business being their parent and having any say over their lives. And then, when the kid eventually doesn't follow the "rules" you are stuck having to follow through and further damaging the attachment. The big tenets of RAD is limit the battles and not rescuing them from the consequences of their actions. Sink/swim IS the natural consequences of eschewing the safety net of family.

 

He wants to be independent and the OP needs to let him be, with consistent reminders that he has a place to come back to if he needs it. Whatever help the OP gives should be about enabling him to be independent not designed to bring him back to the fold or keep him on a straight and narrow.

 

Stefanie

[hamzahqadri1]

Apologies none of my children have RAD.... Though I do understand Children in general. Apologies if the earlier info didn't help.

 

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[Katy]

In general I don't support children leaving home before 18.  I went to college early & I think it was destructive for many other high-school age students who went to the same program I did.  I'm not against early college at all; it's living in dorms away from adult supervision that can be dangerous.  That said, I have very little experience with attachment disorder and this child did manage to graduate early.  So that might tilt me in favor of humoring him.

 

My inclination would be to meet with a therapist who specializes in attachment issues and verify this is okay, but generally, I think pay whatever amount I thought would be fair to all the children, have him work or get loans for the balance.

[vonfirmath]

Because children deserve to be in families that care for them, and they deserve to be integrated into that family as much as possible and not marked out as different by their name. I do not at all regret changing my dd's last name even though she didn't want to. She didn't like it for years and planned to change her name when she turned 18. Occasionally she would bring it up and, recently, at age 21.5, she announced that she planned to keep her name because it's her name. Yes, the one we gave her, the one she didn't want (last name; we kept her original first name).

 

I would not adopt a child and make them obviously different by having a different last name. I would pay for a name change when the child became an adult if continuing to have the family name was intolerable to them.

 

This is kind of what I was thinking. If you do not give the kid your last name, then they end up resentful that they were never really "accepted" because you were not willing to give them your name.  I know one child (Mother got divorced, then remarried) who ended up as the only one in her family with the last name. (mom kept the shared last name as her middle. But it wasn't the same in her eyes) ANd she felt very "outside" because of that -- not really a full part of the family.  Though her last name could not change because it was her connection to her dad. (who she still saw frequently.)

 

[2_girls_mommy]

I could understand with an older child especially. Our son has been living with us since just after his 11th birthday. It's just hard to know what is best always.

 

Off topic but I just started reading about how a bunch of adoptees are angry that their adopted parents gave them new last names (not new first names, just the family last name). One more thing to keep me up at night worrying if we messed up. Even people who were adopted as infants are angry about it. It never would have crossed my mind as something to get upset about.

My adopted from foster care brother started going by his birth last name sometime during his senior year, even though he never legally changed it back.  But it was a shock when I saw it on his Facebook.   He also found his birth family and that was a mess.

 

My mom had a lot of similar issues with him after school and attempting to do college.  The relationship was pretty much severed.  We all had hope that it would come back, but he had to live his life and make his own choices. I semi know how hard this is.  I was only an outside observer though.  My mom really had to deal with it, and it wasn't easy. I do know he had a better life than he would because of the years he had with her. God Bless You.  I am no help.  I just see a lot of similarities.

[brynndolyn]

My adopted from foster care brother started going by his birth last name sometime during his senior year, even though he never legally changed it back. But it was a shock when I saw it on his Facebook. He also found his birth family and that was a mess.

 

My mom had a lot of similar issues with him after school and attempting to do college. The relationship was pretty much severed. We all had hope that it would come back, but he had to live his life and make his own choices. I semi know how hard this is. I was only an outside observer though. My mom really had to deal with it, and it wasn't easy. I do know he had a better life than he would because of the years he had with her. God Bless You. I am no help. I just see a lot of similarities.

He's always been in contact with his bio family via Facebook. He recently bought a sweater and he had his birth last name put on the back. Of all his family members not one person tried to get him when he came into foster care, but they have him convinced that it was because his bio mom "wouldn't let them". We know that this is not true after speaking with the case worker (she even said from the beginning that there was a lot of family but also a lot of them had kids in foster care) but he'll always believe them over us or his caseworker and that's sad.

 

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[2_girls_mommy]

He's always been in contact with his bio family via Facebook. He recently bought a sweater and he had his birth last name put on the back. Of all his family members not one person tried to get him when he came into foster care, but they have him convinced that it was because his bio mom "wouldn't let them". We know that this is not true after speaking with the case worker (she even said from the beginning that there was a lot of family but also a lot of them had kids in foster care) but he'll always believe them over us or his caseworker and that's sad.

 

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Same thing here.  I won't go into all of the details, but school didn't work out for my brother. When he attempted the reunite with the birth family, it went really badly.  Things were starting to look up in the getting a relationship back with us.  He had started reaching out.  But then he was killed in a car accident at a very young age. His birth family caused all kinds of trouble even during the funeral and such from another state.  They obviously felt connected to him, and he to them, but it wasn't a healthy kind of relationship. I really believed it was good that he saw that and what kind of people they were. I thought that he was going to be alright in the long run and make amends with us in some form. He had been raised differently, and I thought I knew after seeing both worlds which he would choose.  Who knows? I never saw it come to fruition.

 

I at times thought I would have handled things differently with him than my mom did, but what did I know without being in her shoes?

 

I do know in your situation, I would feel some obligation to be supporting financially a 17 year old that was not emancipated.  But what that looks like??? Impossible to say from the outside.

Edited April 20, 2016 by 2_girls_mommy

[Spryte]

Same thing here. I won't go into all of the details, but school didn't work out for my brother. When he attempted the reunite with the birth family, it went really badly. Things were starting to look up in the getting a relationship back with us. He had started reaching out. But then he was killed in a car accident at a very young age. His birth family caused all kinds of trouble even during the funeral and such from another state. They obviously felt connected to him, and he to them, but it wasn't a healthy kind of relationship. I really believed it was good that he saw that and what kind of people they were. I thought that he was going to be alright in the long run and make amends with us in some form. He had been raised differently, and I thought I knew after seeing both worlds which he would choose. Who knows? I never saw it come to fruition.

 

I at times thought I would have handled things differently with him than my mom did, but what did I know without being in her shoes?

 

I do know in your situation, I would feel some obligation to be supporting financially a 17 year old that was not emancipated. But what that looks like??? Impossible to say from the outside.

I'm so very sorry for your loss. ((Hugs))

[2_girls_mommy]

Thank you.  We miss him. I do know he is at peace now more now than he ever was here.  I'm glad for the experiences my mom was able to give him.

 

And sorry.  I am not wanting to hijack with my story.  Its just so similar in some ways.  I was touched and truly feeling a strong connection to the OP.  I am no help, I know.

Edited April 20, 2016 by 2_girls_mommy

[2_girls_mommy]

On the topic of scaffolding and his financial education.  I have to say I'm impressed with what the OP has done with her son.  It has given him good experience.  I am not sure what the exact right balance is, but I would err on the side of giving him the opportunity to screw up on purchases that aren't life-or-death.  He's practically an adult; the time for scaffolding is nearly over.

 

I also think the boy doesn't sound like a complete mess.  He graduated and holds a job, knows how to do basic personal maintenance, has a goal for the future, isn't in trouble with the law, still speaks to his folks.  Great job, OP.

I agree with this!

[shawthorne44]

It seems to me that a dorm would be the worst place for a kid so peer-focused.  

[brynndolyn]

Thank you. We miss him. I do know he is at peace now more now than he ever was here. I'm glad for the experiences my mom was able to give him.

 

And sorry. I am not wanting to hijack with my story. Its just so similar in some ways. I was touched and truly feeling a strong connection to the OP. I am no help, I know.

I'm so sorry for your loss. You are a help; it's helpful knowing we're not the only people in the world who are going through this or have gone through this. It's just such an odd situation, or at least it feels odd compared to everyone else we know who has teenagers (all biological). It's a hard place to be.

 

We will see what happens. I have high hopes, not necessarily that he will come to love and appreciate us (ha ha ha) but more that we have shown him love and consistency and hopefully if he does have children that will help break this cycle. He sees the way we parent his younger siblings, I know he doesn't agree with everything we do but I think he does see the good. His mother was in foster care, it's heartbreaking to see the long line of dysfunction. Maybe that will end here, maybe it won't but we've done the best we know how and will continue to be there for him.

 

He's a smart kid, even just in the past few months he's apologized for how he treated me when he first moved in and we've had conversations about some bad things he's realized about himself. I had realized those things years ago, but it's always easier to see faults in other people than in yourself and I'm proud of him for seeing those things about himself as a 16 year old and thinking about what he needs to do to change.

 

Thanks for all the thoughts you guys. I really do appreciate all the input.

[trulycrabby]

You have been an excellent, loving parent. :grouphug:

Edited April 20, 2016 by trulycrabby

[MinivanMom]

You have been an excellent, loving parent. :grouphug:

 

I agree. He's graduating from high school a year early, holding down a job, and has a plan for the future. I'm sure it's been a hard road, but it sounds like you've done wonderful things for him. 

 

I just wanted to add that while I understand people being concerned with a 17-yr-old in a dorm environment, there are many kids who done it and thrived. I was one. The dorm situation provides a fair amount of scaffolding and hand-holding before you are really out on your own, so it can be ideal for teens who are wanting or needing to be in a non-family environment.

 

Even after he moves out, he will continue to feel your love and to see the love you give to his younger siblings.

[Ottakee]

To the OP.....there is hope, even if it is years away. I just ran into our attachment therapist and we talked about a friend who now that her son is 22 can say she likes him and he likes her. It was a long hard road and the teen years were tough but him being in his own really did help their relationship.

[hamzahqadri1]

Same thing here. I won't go into all of the details, but school didn't work out for my brother. When he attempted the reunite with the birth family, it went really badly. Things were starting to look up in the getting a relationship back with us. He had started reaching out. But then he was killed in a car accident at a very young age. His birth family caused all kinds of trouble even during the funeral and such from another state. They obviously felt connected to him, and he to them, but it wasn't a healthy kind of relationship. I really believed it was good that he saw that and what kind of people they were. I thought that he was going to be alright in the long run and make amends with us in some form. He had been raised differently, and I thought I knew after seeing both worlds which he would choose. Who knows? I never saw it come to fruition.

 

I at times thought I would have handled things differently with him than my mom did, but what did I know without being in her shoes?

 

I do know in your situation, I would feel some obligation to be supporting financially a 17 year old that was not emancipated. But what that looks like??? Impossible to say from the outside.

Any news?......Are you making any progress with your son?

 

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[brynndolyn]

Well it's complicated. He had a huge melt down the other day, because I asked him to keep his phone in his pocket during church. It turned into a rant about how he shouldn't have to go to college to move out, we should just let him leave, he can take care of himself, then it turned into my name being on his birth certificate (that's what happens when you get adopted; we actually had no idea and were surprised to see that when it happened), he doesn't feel like he's a part of his bio family and not part of ours either, with a grand finale of him asking to just rent a room from us and be a "mediocre adult" with no rules for the next 2 years. It was all over the place and exhausting, about 1.5 hours of verbal explosion.

 

I talked to his therapist about it, she said he's actually showing attachment to me as a mother figure and it's a double edged sword because attachment isn't safe for him, and he's probably feeling conflicted about leaving so he's creating some drama to tell himself that he ought to move out to get away from it. Him living here and not going to school would be horrible, the more free time he has the more trouble he gets in. So I'm encouraged that she feels he's showing some attachment though, that's exciting. Also dreading mothers day because he always tells other people's mothers happy mothers day (including calling all his friends' moms "mom") but will never say it to me, and even says it to people who aren't moms at all. Which I know sounds silly but it's hurtful.

 

About 2 days ago he off handedly mentioned that he was going to college in July, so I think his meltdown was just a culmination of feelings etc and he's still planning to go.

 

I'm working hard on taking care of myself to survive the next 2 months (making sure I get enough sleep and alone time etc.), and we are joining an adoption support group which we should have done before but just didn't. We just really need to be able to bounce ideas off of others who have been through similar situations, as well as just be able to relate to others who are going through crazy stuff like kids running away, etc.

 

So none of that really answers your question but that's the latest anyway. He's supposed to enroll in the next week or two and get his official financial aid award and we will go from there. It really is exhausting and right now him moving out actually seems like a great idea. Once he graduates from high school I'll feel so much better about everything, at least that will be done.

 

Edited to add: during his meltdown he also made comments such as "what do you guys get from taking care of me" and "I hate feeling like I owe you" and asking if his birth family would be mentioned if he dies (his biological great aunt recently died and he went to her funeral). There was so much other stuff he said I can't even remember all of it because it was so disjointed. I did ask him to make a list of grievances about living here so we could discuss them and have some time to think about them beforehand, he of course has not done this. And he took the ACT again and still got 17. D'oh!

Edited May 7, 2016 by brynndolyn

[Ottakee]

Sadly, sounds very typical of adopted teens with attachment issues. A support group for you would be wonderful. I have a close friend that has adopted and we walk and talk and vent and strategize 3-4 days a week. It is very helpful as others on the outside just don't get it.