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What can go wrong? Update in #149


38carrots

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I'm just going to say...

 

We are in the process of, if all goes well, buying a home.

 

Nobody is giving us anything but the time of day until they get that earnest money wired to their account.

 

This is not a low offer, this is not a low-income neighborhood at. all. This is a top 10% income offer on a top 10% price home (edit: apparently, it is not top 10%, just top 25%, I guess the discrepancy is due to many people having non-earned income to buy their homes). ANYWAY--

 

It is NOT about poverty. It's about people being full of ish sometimes. Our agents work with rich people all the time. They all have to pay deposits.

 

I could never be in the real estate business! (I will probably eat my words on that one...)

Edited by Tsuga
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Telling stories about the tenants from hell might be cathartic, but it isn't going to protect your property. Your hard work in protecting your asset to the extent you can will do that.

 

Your 'preventative behaviour' will include work - work choosing and supervising a good agent, work being a good agent, work in assessing the best tenants for your property, work in being a good landlord who attracts and keeps good tenants. That's how it goes. It's not free money.

 

There's literally no way to make being a landlord completely risk free; only ways to mitigate the risk. And that will take work. It is what it is. 

 

Sharing stories is not only venting, it helps others see what can happen.  When we learn from other's mistakes, it can help us not make the same mistakes ourselves.  It can help protect our property.

 

Not only does one do all the homework they can checking out tenants, a couple of our stories show that one also has to be aware when things in the tenant's life changes.  If their income goes down (whatever reason), and they can't pay, don't buy stories, at least, not for long, esp if it's not a temporary change.  Then beware of lifestyle changes in general.  I strongly suspect ours got hooked on painkillers considering we saw pills and empty bottles on the floor when we cleaned.  It's entirely possible that addiction is why they ended up trashing our house too.  We'll never know.

 

We'd have still lost money if we'd evicted them back when they first couldn't pay, but it'd have been at least 7K less just on rent loss alone, far more if they wouldn't have trashed it then.

 

The plain fact is without enough income, they couldn't afford to rent our place.  They needed to move somewhere less expensive that they could afford.  There are plenty of places around here that would have suited them and not just in bad neighborhoods or whatever.  We have higher level rentals.

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If you don't want to take the risks involved, once you've mitigated through insurance, tenant selection, choice of agency, educating yourself on your rights and responsibilities...then it probably isn't the business for you.

 

 

I am willing to say that I absolutely will not be a landlord because I am not willing to take the heartache and the risk of all the things mentioned in this thread.  It would have been nice to build up some equity this past decade, but I know that I could definitely not take the stress.  We have a lot of friends and family who own property they are not local to, and most of them have at least one horror story.  Not as bad as a place burned to the ground, but still thousands in damages or lost income and I know for me, I just couldn't take it.  I have owned one home in my lifetime and when trying to sell it had flaky buyers who looked good on paper and then couldn't qualify when it came to the underwriting for various reasons that they hid from their realtor and tried to hide from banks.  This happened twice to us in the selling process and gave me new gray hairs each time.  It just made me wonder what would have happened if they had been prospective renters.

 

But all that due diligence you're talking about in that sentence above, I think that is what most people were cautioning the OP about because what her DH was allowing was increasing their risk by quite a lot.

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Some insurers pay for loss of rent during a repair period. It's important to know what your policy does and does not cover.

Yes, when we were considering leasing our home, our insurance co addressed this with us. We would have gone that route. I'm happy with our decision to sell though.

 

My parents had rental properties when I was a child. They had one bad experience, and our family had to clean up the mess. It was a nightmare. I think I'd always be afraid of that happening again.

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I am willing to say that I absolutely will not be a landlord because I am not willing to take the heartache and the risk of all the things mentioned in this thread.  It would have been nice to build up some equity this past decade, but I know that I could definitely not take the stress.  We have a lot of friends and family who own property they are not local to, and most of them have at least one horror story.

  

My parents had rental properties when I was a child. They had one bad experience, and our family had to clean up the mess. It was a nightmare. I think I'd always be afraid of that happening again.

I think all landlords have some horror stories. Many of our problems could have been avoided by more thorough vetting of potential tenants. We have learned a lot!! All our properties (not a huge amount..we are small potatoes) are near us which helps. If you know the law, have adequate knowledge of finances/business, AND stay on top of things (rents due, repairs needed), it can be a good business. Most of our current tenants are excellent. One family is struggling to catch up after a medical condition and decrease in income for a couple months, but they have been good tenants and are upfront with us. When they say they are bringing us X amount of money, they do it. We're glad to work with people who have a good history with us and just hit a rough patch. Overall, it has been a good business for us.

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Yes, why don't YOU go to the workhouse?  You are fine with people stealing others' income, which would send them to the workhouse.  So, since you are fine with that, then you should take that person's place there and go yourself.

I get a sense that there is no understanding that failing to pay as agreed is forcing the landlord into a loan he should not have made.  This landlord has just handed over his 100K+ asset with no money.

 

It is stealing from the landlord's pocket not to pay as agreed.  The applicant was supposed to produce money at the signing (if I understand correctly) and failed to do so.  Why the husband went ahead and handed over keys anyway, I can't explain.  But the tenant has taken possession of something to which he is not entitled prior to paying for it.

 

Reliable as I am, and as my credit report would prove, I can't mosey on down to the car lot and just take a vehicle and hand the dealer post-dated checks.  This is housing, which is even more valuable.   

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Telling stories about the tenants from hell might be cathartic, but it isn't going to protect your property. Your hard work in protecting your asset to the extent you can will do that.

 

I disagree. Some people don't take basic risk-mitigation measures because they seem "mean" or "harsh" but if they knew the real risk, they could take those measure that not only protect them, but also, their good renters.

 

 

 

I agree with almost everything else you said, though. 

 

I know that as homebuyers, when we thought we couldn't get the home we wanted, we decided we might buy a home to rent out that we could eventually live in after the kids moved out. However, because we knew horror stories (not from the Internet, but people in real life) as well as the costs associated with them, we decided it was a risk we couldn't afford. We knew that if they did something crappy but had the right to stay there and we had to repair it, we might not be able to cover it (like if they flushed cars down the toilet, for example, and then there was flooding--well guess who has to pay for that!!!).

 

Like literally, we couldn't have made it from month to month were the worst to happen. So, we decided to wait it out and invest.

 

So I hear you, there is a huge JOINT responsibility here, yes, but I think that knowing what kind of job being a landlord is and can be is extremely important. There can be this aha moment: "Aha, THAT'S why they have that rule."

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 I agree with all this.

 

I just didn't respond with kindness in my heart to the idea that there should and can be zero risk when engaged in profit making. 

 

Or that 'insurance is hard and boo hoo tenants'.

 

It's not a fun thing, being a tenant. Plenty of work and risk taking on that side of the equation too. But maybe that's for a 'my terrible landlord' s/o thread :)

Ha ha.  If you only knew how little profit is involved.

 

I think of it more as forced savings.  You do have this house to sell when the time comes, but mostly every dime is sown back into it for vacancies, repairs, and maintenance.  Some begin seeing a profit when a number of years have passed and the houses are paid off, I suppose.

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 It's not a fun thing, being a tenant. Plenty of work and risk taking on that side of the equation too. But maybe that's for a 'my terrible landlord' s/o thread :)

 

We were tenants with landlords (7 different ones) before we bought our first place and in between changing states.  I definitely prefer owning our housing, but I can't say we ever had terrible landlord stories so that's a plus.  I know there are some out there.

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We have been lucky not to have terrible landlords, but I'm not terribly fond of property management companies. It seems easier to me to deal with the owner one-on-one, but that's because the owners we've worked with directly have all been super nice and quick to resolve problems, and when a couple of things have gone really badly with the house have offered to put us up in hotels or take money off of rent and stuff like that.

 

Mainly I want to pay my rent every month and be left alone unless something breaks or until I need to move out. :)

Edited by JodiSue
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I guess there's always a silver lining.  Hubby just finished our taxes.  Since he's self-employed, we almost always end up paying more in rather than getting a refund ('cause we don't purposely overpay).  This year due to those horrid tenants, we get a 4 digit refund!  It doesn't negate our losses, of course, but it will take a small edge off.

 

I still recommend vetting tenants and watching their current (work) situations closely far more than hoping for a tax refund to help soothe the wounds, but a bandaid for the wound is still a welcome surprise for our budget.

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There hasn't been a single time a pet has messed up one of our places for more than that $100 fee.

You are so lucky. We have had entire units of carpet destroyed, woodwork scratched/chewed, walls ruined from marking. We wish we could allow pets, but we have had so many bad experiences, we just can't do it:-(

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You are so lucky. We have had entire units of carpet destroyed, woodwork scratched/chewed, walls ruined from marking. We wish we could allow pets, but we have had so many bad experiences, we just can't do it:-(

Yeah, same here. We do have a couple of places where the tenant has a pet and paid a deposit and, so far, that hasn't gone wrong. But one of the houses we rent now had been destroyed by the big sheepdog the previous owners kept. It was a terrible dog urine smell that was right through all the carpets and into the sub-floor.

 

Also, we no longer allow aquariums over 10-gallons because one house caught on fire due to overloaded electrical outlets. The renters kept numerous large fishtanks.

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I guess there's always a silver lining.  Hubby just finished our taxes.  Since he's self-employed, we almost always end up paying more in rather than getting a refund ('cause we don't purposely overpay).  This year due to those horrid tenants, we get a 4 digit refund!  It doesn't negate our losses, of course, but it will take a small edge off.

 

I still recommend vetting tenants and watching their current (work) situations closely far more than hoping for a tax refund to help soothe the wounds, but a bandaid for the wound is still a welcome surprise for our budget.

 

You were able to write off those losses? Hmm..  We had a horrible situation a few years ago, we just absorbed the loss.  I should have spent more time with our accountant.

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You were able to write off those losses? Hmm..  We had a horrible situation a few years ago, we just absorbed the loss.  I should have spent more time with our accountant.

 

Hubby does our taxes.  Since he's a perfectionist engineer who puts a lot of time into it, I trust his ability - and he uses TaxAct to assist.  The losses with that rental property offset our gains totally last year, and then some.  I suspect that had something to do with it.  As with any other investment, we're in it for the long haul so the big picture should still work out ok - as long as we're careful with tenants.

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We have been lucky not to have terrible landlords, but I'm not terribly fond of property management companies. It seems easier to me to deal with the owner one-on-one, but that's because the owners we've worked with directly have all been super nice and quick to resolve problems, and when a couple of things have gone really badly with the house have offered to put us up in hotels or take money off of rent and stuff like that.

 

Mainly I want to pay my rent every month and be left alone unless something breaks or until I need to move out. :)

 

I also don't like property management companies, either as a landlord or a tenant. If you have to have someone manage a property for you, I think it's best to find another excellent landlord in town. (An individual, not a company.)

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Of course, but most of us play by the rules from the beginning and don't write post-dated checks when cash is required and move in early, kwim?

 

It's the red flags, all put together, that are concerning.

 

That said I hope that for OP this will be a simple case of pay-laters and all will be well.

True. Unfortunately those that don't end up ruining it for renters like my family. We are looking to move due to a new job, and we have two dogs. We are having a heck of a time getting anyone to rent to us, despite a very favorable reference from our landlord of the last two years. Thankfully we are month to month where we are and the landlord loves us, so we can stay till we find something else. Unfortunately that means motel costs for dh through the week till we move. Pisses me off that we are great renters who get vetoed asap because a landlord has been burned by not so great renters.

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I also don't like property management companies, either as a landlord or a tenant. If you have to have someone manage a property for you, I think it's best to find another excellent landlord in town. (An individual, not a company.)

We have both our own rentals, and we are property managers for seven other units. Personally, though I am grateful for every little bit of income, I think the PM gig is a *fantastic* situation for the owner; not so much for the manager. We manage for someone who lives far, far away, where the cost of living is much less. He gets a very liveable income direct deposited to his account every month. He has close to zero PITA factor; We get to enjoy all the excitement here. ;)

 

For him, it is virtually automatic money.

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Gross.  What did you do about the sub flooring?  Did you have to rip it all up and replace it, or was there a way to neutralize the smell?

 

Yeah, same here. We do have a couple of places where the tenant has a pet and paid a deposit and, so far, that hasn't gone wrong. But one of the houses we rent now had been destroyed by the big sheepdog the previous owners kept. It was a terrible dog urine smell that was right through all the carpets and into the sub-floor.
 

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Gross. What did you do about the sub flooring? Did you have to rip it all up and replace it, or was there a way to neutralize the smell?

No. DH and his brother replaced all carpeting and padding, thinking that would fix it, but the place still smells of urine to me. There is a renter there and they were allowed a dog, with a deposit because of it. I guess they are not bothered or don't notice it like I do, or accepted it anyway.

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True. Unfortunately those that don't end up ruining it for renters like my family. We are looking to move due to a new job, and we have two dogs. We are having a heck of a time getting anyone to rent to us, despite a very favorable reference from our landlord of the last two years. Thankfully we are month to month where we are and the landlord loves us, so we can stay till we find something else. Unfortunately that means motel costs for dh through the week till we move. Pisses me off that we are great renters who get vetoed asap because a landlord has been burned by not so great renters.

 

It's not always that other renters have ruined it for people who are good pet owners. We would allow cats but DH is allergic and it would be a problem for him to spend more than a few minutes in the unit, which is fine for inspections, but not for extended cleaning or work. Many Asians are culturally not used to dogs in the house at all, regardless of how clean and well-behaved they are,

 

I hope you find something soon.

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Gross. What did you do about the sub flooring? Did you have to rip it all up and replace it, or was there a way to neutralize the smell?

I dealt with this twice. I bought an enzyme cleaner at a janitorial supply shop. They told me how to use it. After cleaning the sub floor, I painted it with Kilz. The smell was gone and I have a sensitive nose. It just smelled like new carpet.

 

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

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It's not always that other renters have ruined it for people who are good pet owners. We would allow cats but DH is allergic and it would be a problem for him to spend more than a few minutes in the unit, which is fine for inspections, but not for extended cleaning or work. Many Asians are culturally not used to dogs in the house at all, regardless of how clean and well-behaved they are,

 

I hope you find something soon.

Makes sense, but every one we have run into states it is because it is a liability, or that they have had too many previous renters that let their dogs destroy things. Our landlord still forgets every time he comes over, that we have a cat. The dogs love him so he can't forget them. :) We make sure to vacuum daily, and would never have brought pets into the house that weren't 100% trained. Our dogs are never left alone...ever, so they have no chance to ruin things. Even with his reference, and that of our almost 10 yr landlord before that, they won't budge. It's looking more like us staying out and just working towards saving for a down payment to buy at this point.

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It's not always that other renters have ruined it for people who are good pet owners. We would allow cats but DH is allergic and it would be a problem for him to spend more than a few minutes in the unit, which is fine for inspections, but not for extended cleaning or work. Many Asians are culturally not used to dogs in the house at all, regardless of how clean and well-behaved they are,

 

I hope you find something soon.

To the bolded, I agree. DH grew up on a farm and animals were not kept in the house. So, he vividly perceives the disadvantages of dogs and cats in the house. In his mind, all animals imbue the house with an odor; they shed hair which lands everywhere; they potential cause parasite infestations; dog's nails scratch hardwood; even perfectly-behaved animals throw up or have bodily emissions when they are unwell or old.

 

He has softened up about animals in the house with age and DD's pleading (even now, our cats are in the basement room because it is colder than average right now and he doesn't want them to be cold in the garage), but he still thinks animals don't belong in house.

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Makes sense, but every one we have run into states it is because it is a liability, or that they have had too many previous renters that let their dogs destroy things. Our landlord still forgets every time he comes over, that we have a cat. The dogs love him so he can't forget them. :) We make sure to vacuum daily, and would never have brought pets into the house that weren't 100% trained. Our dogs are never left alone...ever, so they have no chance to ruin things. Even with his reference, and that of our almost 10 yr landlord before that, they won't budge. It's looking more like us staying out and just working towards saving for a down payment to buy at this point.

 

I hope it works out for you.  We've found our absolute best tenants because we allow pets and our places rarely sit empty in between tenants - probably for that reason too.

 

Being a pet lover who can't imagine living without critters for any lengthy period of time, it only makes sense that we'd allow others to do the same.  ;)

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I hope it works out for you. We've found our absolute best tenants because we allow pets and our places rarely sit empty in between tenants - probably for that reason too.

 

Being a pet lover who can't imagine living without critters for any lengthy period of time, it only makes sense that we'd allow others to do the same. ;)

Can you come buy a house in Iowa? ;)

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I suspect at least part of the money to be there on the 19th (rent, iffy on security deposit).  The question in my mind is how long will it last?  Can they afford the place or not.  Hopefully they can and all will be well.  Time will tell.

 

Like others, I'd love to see an update on or after Friday - just to add to anecdotal evidence collected in my mind.

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Regarding the post-dated check issue..

 

We once wrote a post dated check that was cashed early.  Our bank said too bad, so sad.  All checks are legally valid when they are written.

 

Not long after that, my DH worked for this horrible employer who gave him 3 postdated checks for a job he did.  (This was technically illegal since it was payroll, but we didn't have the time or means to pursue it at the time.)  When we went to our bank, they wouldn't accept them.  We said, just a few months ago you said checks were valid as soon as they were written and that's why you weren't liable for cashing ours early.  The checks are either valid or they aren't.  They said they could *decide* not to cash them, but if they did cash them they weren't liable.  They refused to cash them.  Banks = :(

 

What they really meant was, "If we don't notice the date, it isn't our fault."   If you'd mailed in the checks, they probably would have gone through because of the automatic nature of the way those deposits are handled.

 

I haven't had to use this in *mumble* *mumble* years, but if a check bounces (or maybe if it hasn't bounced, but it costs money) to have your check be paid before anyone else.  So your check sits there waiting for a deposit, and when one comes through you are paid. 

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If funds were supposed to be available today, would 38carrots even know yet if the check clears?  I would think that would only be the case if taken in person to the bank the check was written on. Otherwise it might take a few days for it to be known still.

 

Anyway, I hope it goes well and all worries were for naught.

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