a too friendly neighbor friend of my son

[Merry]

I am frankly outnumbered and overwhelmed by my son and his friend who lives down the block.  They are both fourteen and they have known each other since they were eight.  The friend (I'll call him K) never had many friends over his house in the past, and he has always been in a public school.  This year he is in ninth grade and it just happens that he got a girlfriend who is best friends with a girl in our neighborhood.  So now this girlfriend, her best friend, K, and another girl who is a friend of the girlfriend are coming over here a lot.  And also K is over  by himself a lot more than he ever used to be.  My son is becoming more and more drawn to this circle of friends and is more withdrawn from me.  (His dad died two years ago, otherwise he would have taken care of this.)  He is doing schoolwork less and less and recently got a D in one of his outside classes due to not handing in his homework.  He is constantly texting the kids.  And he is turning away from his church and homeschool friends that he grew up with, calling them fakes and prudes.

 

I could kick all of them out of the house but then he would just leave with them.  I know because I tried that and he just left.  He is very smart and manipulative and fools me pretty easily. 

 

I have decided that we will move out of here this spring or summer but what should I do in the meantime?  I can't force him to do his schoolwork.  Well, I could and I have forced him but it's exhausting for me to keep after him every day.  And I really don't think that this circle is a positive influence on him.  K never seems to have any homework and he is not interested in school which is having a bad effect on my son.

 

 

 

 

[zoobie]

Has he ever seen anyone to talk about losing his father? I'd be concerned about depression and substance use with a drastic personality change. If he had a rapport with someone, maybe getting him to see him/her for follow up would be easier.

[MedicMom]

I also think it's pretty normal at 14 to become more attached to a peer group and less attached/more withdrawn from a parent. And less interested in school. None of this really seems out of the norm of typical adolescent behavior.

[Merry]

My son just started therapy with a social worker.  This is such a different situation for me as compared to when my late husband and I were raising the five older siblings a few years ago.  I do know all about how teenagers grow away from parents, blah, blah, but this is different somehow.  Well, I'll just have to change my personality and become this tough, confident, and assertive mom that my son obviously needs me to be.  (After my first post, I caught the girlfriend necking K in my son's bedroom in front of my son and the other friends.  I turned on the ceiling light, told the girl to stop it, and then told the kids to leave the light on.  Then they left to go on a walk.  Oh, well.)

Edited December 13, 2015 by Merry

[kiwik]

Are they at your house because the other parents have laid down the law?

[Merry]

That's exactly what I have been wondering about.  I am going to talk with K's mother soon.

 

[foxbridgeacademy]

I also think it's pretty normal at 14 to become more attached to a peer group and less attached/more withdrawn from a parent. And less interested in school. None of this really seems out of the norm of typical adolescent behavior.

:iagree:

Very normal behavior especially for a kid who so recently lost his dad.  Taking him away from his long time friend will likely only make his behavior worse.

 

My parents did something very similar to me when I started hanging out with the "wrong crowd".  I rebelled even harder and made a lot of mistakes.  Those friends who they thought were such bad influences went on to College (I went but didn't graduate), got married (one got divorced) had kids and have lived very normal and productive lives, I sometimes wish I could have continued to be "one of them", life would have been easier if my parents hadn't of pulled me out of PS to HS me so that I wouldn't be "influenced" by them. 

 

ETA: NOT advocating letting teens hang out alone with girlfriends in bedrooms.  Just suggesting moving away may not be the best response.

Edited December 13, 2015 by foxbridgeacademy

[MBM]

Do you know what they're doing when they go off? Any chance they're doing drugs or drinking?

Edited December 13, 2015 by MBM

[JoJosMom]

My son just started therapy with a social worker.  This is such a different situation for me as compared to when my late husband and I were raising the five older siblings a few years ago.  I do know all about how teenagers grow away from parents, blah, blah, but this is different somehow.  Well, I'll just have to change my personality and become this tough, confident, and assertive mom that my son obviously needs me to be.  (After my first post, I caught the girlfriend necking K in my son's bedroom in front of my son and the other friends.  I turned on the ceiling light, told the girl to stop it, and then told the kids to leave the light on.  Then they left to go on a walk.  Oh, well.)

 

No real advice, just :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: .

 

Can his adult siblings be of help?

[Garga]

Is there any activity that you could sign your son up for that would take up some of his time that he'd normally spend with this group?

 

Does your church have a youth pastor that you like and he respects? Could the youth pastor talk to him? Or any leader of the kids at church?

 

If you move away I wouldn't tell your son it's because of his friends. I'd give some other reason and cheerfully move. I'd also show sympathy to him if (when) he expresses negative feelings at leaving his friends behind. You don't want him to think the move is about them or he may cling to them more than ever. "We have to move because of blah. Yes, it's very sad to leave friends behind. I'm so sorry you're sad. I wish we didn't have to move either, but well, we have to because of blah. I know it's difficult, buddy." Maybe not those exact words, but that sort of attitude/sentiment.

 

This is tricky at 14, but is there a way to get him interested in his own future? Tour a few colleges perhaps? So that he sees for himself the benefit of thinking ahead and working now for something in the future (schoolwork good enough to enter college)?

 

How about a job? The McDonald's around here hire kids at 14.

 

I'm trying to think of ways to get him away from his friends that aren't punitive (a job, a new activity) and ways to get him to focus on his future and not his current situation (colleges.) The friendships formed at this age can be so intense and so very important. I've never had friendships be as intense as the ones in my teens/early twenties. People of those ages cling to each other.

 

If not a job at McDs, then is there a relative or elderly person that he could work for in some way? Hired out to clean their house, rake leaves, help with whatever is needed? The church may know of someone who needs help. I can't see him doing this unless it was paid, though. And at 14 it's hit or miss on whether he'd be much help to someone. Some 14 year olds are very capable and some just aren't.

 

I'd also have some downtime for the texting. Someone on another post said they have charging time for the electronics. At a certain time in the evening, the electronics are collected to be charged and everyone is cut off from texting for the night. It won't stop him from texting all day, but you could use the non-text time to reconnect to him uninterrupted.

 

Can you come up with projects for the two of you to work on? Stuff around the house? Small repairs? Painting?

 

How about you go on a trip together for the weekend. Find a hotel with a pool. Bond. On the drive home, after you've bonded again, talk (while in the car, looking ahead so you're not staring into his eyes) about your concerns. Not so much about his friends, but about his own choices not to do well in school or to pull away from other friends.

 

Read the book "Hold on to Your Kids." It's about how to reconnect to your kids so that peers don't take over as their primary influence. (My last paragraph about taking a trip together one-on-one is from that book.)

Edited December 13, 2015 by Garga

[jelbe5]

Catching the friend and girlfriend necking in the bedroom gives you the opportunity to lay down some rules. This behavior is disrespectful to you and I would not hesitate to say that to your son as well as his friends.

 

Should you decide to let these kids use your home as a teen hang out they must be in a common area where they may be supervised by you; not in a bedroom. Family/living room only and you must be in the area. They are taking advantage of you. Don't let them. You can smile and be pleasant but be direct. "I'm glad you all like to come over, but from now on we need some rules," etc.

 

Do they eat your food? Do they offer to help around the house (basic clean-up, etc.)? If not, let them know you expect respect and if they can't give you that they are not welcome.

 

Consider telling your son and these young people they are welcome to bring some reading and school homework and can work together in community on that from 3-4:30 or 5 (or whatever reasonable time works for you) and then when it is time for you to eat dinner they have to pack up and leave. They could also play board games if there is little/no homework. Be in eye/ear shot at all times.

 

I'm glad to hear he is seeing someone and agree there might be depression, etc. Moving might help but it may not address the underlying issues. Talking to your son about your need for him to treat you with respect, possibly with the help of the therapist or a trusted church leader, may be a good place to start.

Edited December 13, 2015 by jelbe5

[Laurie4b]

Way back in the day when I worked in children's mental health, including with adolescents, there was research out that moving was actually a good intervention with kids who were having issues. It actually did fix issues because our issues are not merely individual, they are embedded in our communities. (Hence new findings on addiction that we always thought was a purely individual, physical issue and then find from research that soldiers who used heroine in Vietnam came back to the US and stopped using.)

 

 Research on moving for troubled kids may have changed since then, but OP, I think your instinct to move is probably a good one. 

 

 

ETA: I agree with a pp who suggested not making it about his friends.

Edited December 13, 2015 by Laurie4b

[J-rap]

I'm very sorry.  I know what it's like to have to step into the role of father.  It's hard.  You've gotten a lot of great advice.  I think making sure your son is talking to a therapist is important, as others have suggested and as you are doing already.  I also think talking to the mother of K is a very good idea.  You may get some insight into everything.  If they're going to keep coming to your house, I'd set down some rules.  (Bedrooms being out of bounds, no one allowed in the house when you're not home, etc.)  What do they do when they're off somewhere else, do you know?  Maybe you are more comfortable at least knowing your son is in your own home.

 

I hung out with a crowd like that when I was that age (well, probably quite worse), but because I had such a solid upbringing, I never got into any spiraling trouble.  It sounds like your son grew up with that too.  Is he close to any of his older siblings?  Could they reach out to him?  Talk to him, or even just invite him  to do things with them?

 

Otherwise, can you find a club or activity that he has always wanted to do (or maybe one that he has never thought about!) that will take up some of his time?  Or a part-time job?  Any time away to help break that cycle might be good!  My own parents sent me to school in Sweden for a semester!  I realize in hind site that it was their strategy, and it worked!  But I was older and I'm not really suggesting for you to do that.  :).  On the other hand, if you are really worried, perhaps you could find some out-of-town event down the road that sounds really exciting to him that he could start planning for. 

 

Lastly, it sounds like your son is very smart, and it might be very likely that what he says he is seeing in some of his old homeschooled friends really is true.  So, I wouldn't discount that completely.

Edited December 14, 2015 by J-rap

[TammyS]

 (After my first post, I caught the girlfriend necking K in my son's bedroom in front of my son and the other friends.  I turned on the ceiling light, told the girl to stop it, and then told the kids to leave the light on.  Then they left to go on a walk.  Oh, well.)

 

Between this post and the first post it sounds like you need a cultural change in your household (though at 14 it may be too late to establish).  Your son blatantly defies you, he has cell/text (which means a parallel life that you are cut out of), and you have them hanging out in bedrooms with opposite sex peers (I don't care what they are doing, that's just asking for trouble). 

 

Because I have no confidence that you are able to effect those changes (because your son has progressed to open defiance and because he's so old) my suggestion is find a good boarding school for him.  I'm not talking about some mean, punitive place.  But a school with a good culture that has things that your son will be interested in.   And then spend a lot of time praying for him.

Edited December 13, 2015 by TammyS

[Lisa R.]

Because I have no confidence that you are able to effect those changes (because your son has progressed to open defiance and because he's so old) my suggestion is find a good boarding school for him. I'm not talking about some mean, punitive place. But a school with a good culture that has things that your son will be interested in. And then spend a lot of time praying for him.

I'm sure you didn't mean to come across harsh and judgmental of the OP.

 

It is my understanding the OP is recently widowed and doing the best she can.

 

OP, I don't think boarding school is the answer. Moving away may well be. In the meantime, maybe some of your older children or a trusted male adult relative or friend can spend some time with DS. He's hurting. This is a hard age for any kid, regardless.

Edited December 13, 2015 by Lisa R.

[Ausmumof3]

I lost a parent at a similar age and around two years afterward was when I think the effect on me personally peaked. I did make some poor choices at that time. I wouldn't underestimate that. I would be concerned about moving without getting to the underlying cause, as he's likely to replace one bad friend with another. I would consider talking to the friends parents to see if they are concerned or they just don't care.

 

Hugs... I think this must be a very difficult place for you.

[Catwoman]

Between this post and the first post it sounds like you need a cultural change in your household (though at 14 it may be too late to establish). Your son blatantly defies you, he has cell/text (which means a parallel life that you are cut out of), and you have them hanging out in bedrooms with opposite sex peers (I don't care what they are doing, that's just asking for trouble).

 

Because I have no confidence that you are able to effect those changes (because your son has progressed to open defiance and because he's so old) my suggestion is find a good boarding school for him. I'm not talking about some mean, punitive place. But a school with a good culture that has things that your son will be interested in. And then spend a lot of time praying for him.

The poor kid has already lost his father. Now you're suggesting that his mom abandon him as well? (Because that's how he will interpret being shipped off to boarding school.)

 

I'll admit there are a few big issues here, but I think the mom and her ds need to work on them together as a team and try to strengthen their relationship.

[albeto.]

My son just started therapy with a social worker.  This is such a different situation for me as compared to when my late husband and I were raising the five older siblings a few years ago.  I do know all about how teenagers grow away from parents, blah, blah, but this is different somehow.  Well, I'll just have to change my personality and become this tough, confident, and assertive mom that my son obviously needs me to be.  (After my first post, I caught the girlfriend necking K in my son's bedroom in front of my son and the other friends.  I turned on the ceiling light, told the girl to stop it, and then told the kids to leave the light on.  Then they left to go on a walk.  Oh, well.)

 

The idea of moving away strikes me as being unhelpfully reactionary, and I'd be concerned it might create unwanted side effects (such as further alienation from you, hiding new friends and hobbies from you). But ultimately, I think you could use some professional advice here. Can you speak with the social worker yourself? Can you get some help for you to design a home environment in which you don't have to change your personality, but can tweak some expectations, his as well as yours? Can the social worker help the two of you come together to meet some common goals? Giving him some control here might work to both of your advantages. In any case, best of luck to you. 

[Alicia64]

My best friend went through something very similar w/ her 14 year old daughter who was a public school kid -- she got in w/ a bad group.

 

My friend started monitoring her email. The kid -- who is 20 now still doesn't know -- and found out about a lot of drug use and a lot of fooling her mom stuff. I'm pretty sure they also took away her phone. Then they pulled her from the school and put her into a private school that I could only afford by robbing a bank. But it was worth it to them -- they were losing their kid.

 

I don't totally disagree w/ moving.

 

Like you say, I would get really tough and I would monitor anything you can so that you know what is happening. I know I'm generalizing, but public school kids are lured into drugs whether they're in an elite area or not.

 

Let me know if you want more things that my friend did. Feel free to PM me.

 

Alley

[Catwoman]

The idea of moving away strikes me as being unhelpfully reactionary, and I'd be concerned it might create unwanted side effects (such as further alienation from you, hiding new friends and hobbies from you). But ultimately, I think you could use some professional advice here. Can you speak with the social worker yourself? Can you get some help for you to design a home environment in which you don't have to change your personality, but can tweak some expectations, his as well as yours? Can the social worker help the two of you come together to meet some common goals? Giving him some control here might work to both of your advantages. In any case, best of luck to you.

I'm not sure about moving, either, particularly if your ds isn't on board with the decision. It may be a good option, but it may also just drive you farther apart. I agree with albeto about speaking with the social worker (or a counselor who specializes in teens who are dealing with grief issues) to see if you can come up with a plan of action.

[MomatHWTK]

:grouphug:

[Butter]

Because I have no confidence that you are able to effect those changes (because your son has progressed to open defiance and because he's so old) my suggestion is find a good boarding school for him.  I'm not talking about some mean, punitive place.  But a school with a good culture that has things that your son will be interested in.   And then spend a lot of time praying for him.

 

Every single person I know who went to boarding school (including religious ones) has had lots of stories to tell about things that went on that so incredibly against the rules and much worse than what she is seeing in her son currently.

[Laura Corin]

I would start by asking him, in a quiet moment when his friends aren't around, how he thinks things are going.  Try to get him to talk about how he feels about home life, school, his friends and losing his dad.  There's a real risk of pushing teenagers away by starting with the rules before working on the relationship; often if you listen to them first, then they can be talked around gently, over time, to an appreciation of a structure that will keep them emotionally safe.

 

Best of luck

 

Laura

[itsheresomewhere]

On the moving- we know someone who moved thinking it would help/fix things. It did not as the problem just followed them. Are you in counseling yourself along with family counseling? Those combined with his own counseling can make a difference.

[Merry]

Thank you so very much.  All your comments made me realize that I do need to get counseling for myself and also counseling for the two of us.  I hope that I can find a good one. 

 

[Chris in VA]

Your post makes my stomach churn with memories from that time with my son.

I wish I had been able to move. BUT for him, I know now that would have caused him to feel insecure and act out in the new place--IMO, many kids who have a "bad" group of friends and then move go on to seek the easiest group to break into--which happens to often be the "bad" kids.

 

I am glad you are seeking counseling.

 

I would not only try to strengthen the relationship with your son, I would seek more than once a week counseling--it's too slow. IMO, you need a group that he can attend, a grief group, and the regular counseling, along with a counseling meeting for yourself. Seek out a grief camp this summer, too.

 

I would never do boarding school. Not in a million years. You need to reconnect, not disconnect.

 

Do every stinking thing you can to help your son get to the bottom of his behavior--anger and acting out are often by-products of intense hurt. Clear and heal the hurt and the anger lessens.

 

I would think about finding a trauma therapist who works with teens, perhaps using Traumatic Incident Reduction as part of the theraputic arsenal.

 

I sent my son away for therapy. I made a mistake. He made mistakes. It was never made right. Don't be me. Reconnect, look for ways to heal the hurt, set boundaries about where/when/who he hangs with, don't let the kids in unsupervised parts of the home (no bedrooms, no basements). I would not give him money or let him have access to it at this point, but finding ways to keep him busy in a meaningful way is good. Don't be surprised if he's already in far deeper than you can imagine.

 

Martial arts are good. Volunteering is good. Working with someone you know is good (like if an older friend has a business with physical labor). Joining a gym and getting into a healthy lifestyle is an excellent preventative that can head off drug and alcohol use.

 

Jumbled advice--sorry. Take what you find useful, discard the rest, as usual.

[Melissa in Australia]

:grouphug:

[Catwoman]

Your post makes my stomach churn with memories from that time with my son.

I wish I had been able to move. BUT for him, I know now that would have caused him to feel insecure and act out in the new place--IMO, many kids who have a "bad" group of friends and then move go on to seek the easiest group to break into--which happens to often be the "bad" kids.

 

I am glad you are seeking counseling.

 

I would not only try to strengthen the relationship with your son, I would seek more than once a week counseling--it's too slow. IMO, you need a group that he can attend, a grief group, and the regular counseling, along with a counseling meeting for yourself. Seek out a grief camp this summer, too.

 

I would never do boarding school. Not in a million years. You need to reconnect, not disconnect.

 

Do every stinking thing you can to help your son get to the bottom of his behavior--anger and acting out are often by-products of intense hurt. Clear and heal the hurt and the anger lessens.

 

I would think about finding a trauma therapist who works with teens, perhaps using Traumatic Incident Reduction as part of the theraputic arsenal.

 

I sent my son away for therapy. I made a mistake. He made mistakes. It was never made right. Don't be me. Reconnect, look for ways to heal the hurt, set boundaries about where/when/who he hangs with, don't let the kids in unsupervised parts of the home (no bedrooms, no basements). I would not give him money or let him have access to it at this point, but finding ways to keep him busy in a meaningful way is good. Don't be surprised if he's already in far deeper than you can imagine.

 

Martial arts are good. Volunteering is good. Working with someone you know is good (like if an older friend has a business with physical labor). Joining a gym and getting into a healthy lifestyle is an excellent preventative that can head off drug and alcohol use.

 

Jumbled advice--sorry. Take what you find useful, discard the rest, as usual.

Not jumbled at all, Chris. I think your post was incredibly wise. :hurray:

[Laura Corin]

I just wanted to add a book for you to read: Hold On To Your Kids.  You can read the first chapter here.  

 

http://neufeldinstitute.org/products/book/#excerpt

 

It's about gathering your children back to you when they are moving towards their peers.

[ScoutTN]

Boarding school is a definite NO. You want to build and strengthen your relationship with your son and that will not help.

All the teenage bad stuff is there and in most schools adults are perceived as the enemy.

[StephanieZ]

I don't see any justification for hanging out in a bedroom when he is the youngest kid (only?) at home (as there is no need to get away from annoying younger sibs). Public spaces only with mixed-gender groups. Period. A same sex friend, assuming your son is straight, is fine for a sleep over or hanging out in the room . . . but, no opposite gender folks in the bedroom, period. Public spaces, with you wandering in and out, is the way to go, IMHO.

 

I'd also prohibit cell phones, laptops, computers, or any other device with a camera in bedrooms or bathrooms or "any space with a lock on the door". Know that iPods are essentially smart phones when on wifi. Treat them and any other tablets, etc, as you would a smart phone.

 

I'd also be worried about substance abuse, etc. It's a dangerous age. He needs friends, but he doesn't need lots of privacy, IMHO. In fact, lots of privacy is dangerous at that age, IME. 

 

Personally, I also advise picking up a range of at-home drug tests from Amazon. You can get all sorts, for just a few dollars. I've taken to randomly (about weekly or so) testing my 16 yo old son. We started this with marijauna testing when he was spending a month in the pot-legal state of CO at an adult music festival this summer. I started it as a motivator/threat to dissuade him from being tempted to experiment while there. So far, it's worked. Trick for me is that we warned him ahead of time of the testing to come, and then we followed through. Now I test him for THC, nicotine (because vaping is all the rage with young teens), and a "random" third dip stick that is actually another THC test (more sensitive), but he doesn't know what that third test is for . . . so I'm hoping it scares him from trying anything. He knows that "hell will rain down" if he ever tests positive for anything, and he has so far tested clean each time . . . He is annoyed, but actually, I know he likes it. It gives him an "out" from being tempted by peers, etc . . . as he can say, truthfully, that Mom will (may) catch him since I test, and that fear helps him abide by these rules. I never did such a thing with my older dd and don't expect to need it for my younger dd either, but my ds is more rebellious . . . So I added this to my parenting arsenal. 

Edited December 14, 2015 by StephanieZ

[Merry]

Danny's smart phone actually is huge contributor to the problem.  How the heck do I regulate his use of it other than taking it away completely?

[albeto.]

Danny's smart phone actually is huge contributor to the problem.  How the heck do I regulate his use of it other than taking it away completely?

 

With respect, perhaps the smartphone is a symptom of a more complex problem. This is a good question for his social worker. 

[dirty ethel rackham]

Danny's smart phone actually is huge contributor to the problem.  How the heck do I regulate his use of it other than taking it away completely?

 

For one, I would limit electronics from the bedrooms.  When you see it in there, you tell them to hand it over.  You also require them to relinquish it at bedtime.  Also, you can usually check some usage online with your provider.  Different providers offer different levels of detail.  You can also unplug WiFi at certain times of the day.  We will probably have to implement something like that for our 19yo who is having some major issues with sleep and depression.

 

[SquirrellyMama]

Danny's smart phone actually is huge contributor to the problem. How the heck do I regulate his use of it other than taking it away completely?

What kind of phone does he have? We've been using an app called DinnerTime. You can control how much time he can use the phone and which apps he can use all from your phone. It will show you which app is in use and time used.

 

Kelly

[MBM]

Yes to what Chris said a thousand times.

 

Grief is not always visible. It might appear as problem behavior. It's also not something we grow out of easily by ourselves and can be present decades later. Even if a person dissociates, our bodies still get the message that something's amiss. Unresolved trauma and grief can show up later as autoimmune problems. Your son is throwing up red flags that suggest it's bubbling around inside of him.

 

Twelve is a very tough age to lose a parent. Your son is constantly reminded that others have their fathers and he does not. There's a saying that you have to feel to heal. If the two of you haven't worked with someone much or need to work with someone again, doing so could save you from worse problems and help you grow closer together.

 

A good grief counselor could help both of you. You might not know what to do. And your son might not want to share much with you for a number of reasons: he doesn't want to burden you, he feels that tough guys shouldn't grieve, he's older and beginning to separate, he doesn't know how to verbalize what he's feeling. He needs empathy while being gently guided along.

 

Compounding your son's loss, teens naturally begin to separate from parents as they become more autonomous. They produce less feel-good neurotransmitters so they seek out activities that cause those neurotransmitters to increase. They also minimize the dangers of risky behavior.

 

When your son learns how to deal with his grief and anger, he will naturally move to healthier behavior.

 

 

[Ausmumof3]

"I would never do boarding school. Not in a million years. You need to reconnect, not disconnect."

 

This is so exactly true!!! And applies to various issues I have with my kids at the moment too.

 

I think "you need to reconnect not disconnect" is going to be my motto for next year!!!

[scholastica]

Is he close to any of his older siblings? Does he look up to and respect any of them? If he does, would they be willing to spend time with him and talk to him? Sometimes, it can be better coming from someone other than mom. You definitely need counseling for both of you, but getting other family members who love him connected to him may help as well.