So, the "Clock Kid's" family is now suing...

[GinaPagnato]

 They're traumatized, you know...

 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/%e2%80%99clock-kid%e2%80%99-seeking-dollar15-million-in-damages/ar-BBnm4ae?li=BBnb7Kz

​

:glare: 

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

I don't know about the amount of damages they are seeking but I don't see why you would make a sarcastic comment about them being traumatized.  It is traumatizing to be handcuffed, taken to jail and interrogated with no chance to talk to parents or a lawyer. 

[Sneezyone]

Seriously, they had no reason at all to be fearful. It's not like armed people in/around that area are "protesting" outside mosques. Oh wait...that happened.

[GinaPagnato]

I'm sure it was scary when it happened. Everyone has bent over backwards trying to make up for it, including our President.

 

I also think claiming "trauma" to the tune of millions of dollars is ridiculous.

 

 

[Sneezyone]

I'm sure it was scary when it happened. Everyone has bent over backwards trying to make up for it, including our President.

 

I also think claiming "trauma" to the tune of millions of dollars is ridiculous.

 

How much is your child's innocence and sense of security worth?

[Amira]

I'm sure it was scary when it happened. Everyone has bent over backwards trying to make up for it, including our President.

 

I also think claiming "trauma" to the tune of millions of dollars is ridiculous.

 

And maybe the courts will agree with you, but this really has been quite disruptive to their family in my opinion.  Their son was arrested for making a clock while Muslim and they didn't seem to feel safe (or at least welcome) in their community- and given the stories that have come out of their community this year, that isn't unreasonable- so they made a major international move which is *always* difficult.  Certainly different choices could have been made on all sides at different times, but I think this family definitely can make a case that this has been an extremely traumatic situation for their entire family.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

They ended up moving to a different country over this, as their solution to solve all problems of stress, fear, fame, a disrupted life in a new land that didn't feel welcoming at all. What happened to Ahmed was more than an inconvenience. It was a denial of legal rights that turned a family upside down. That matters. Meeting the president and enjoying 15 minutes of fame does not undo the damage.

 

I am also disgusted by the sarcasm, and somewhat annoyed, Gina, that you assumed the majority of the board would see this family as a bunch of opportunists. I don't see this as a frivolous lawsuit when I consider what it would mean to my family to go through the same thing.

 

 

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I'm sure it was scary when it happened. Everyone has bent over backwards trying to make up for it, including our President.

 

I also think claiming "trauma" to the tune of millions of dollars is ridiculous.

 

The school system and police department didn't do anything to make up for it, and they are the parties being sued.  Lawsuits aren't only about getting compensated for damages - sometimes they are a useful tool to punish stupidity.

 

Edited November 23, 2015 by ChocolateReignRemix

[Ali in OR]

My impression when I first read about the original incident was that the police dept (and perhaps mayor? wasn't there another something in the news in the same community just prior to this?) really acted inappropriately. How do they learn what actions are appropriate for future situations? Unfortunately, if you don't learn it any other way, fear of litigation is a great motivator to re-think how you do things. I'm okay with the lawsuit in this situation.

 

[Katy]

They're coming back from Qatar to sue?  Well this ought to be good.  He's violating his own right to privacy so now all those things the school referred to - having valid reasons but not being able to make them public will be known.  It will be interesting to find out if there really was legitimate reason or if they were overreacting.

[Tanaqui]

Perhaps a big payout will cause the school and the police to act with a little more restraint in the future.

[Tenaj]

Perhaps a big payout will cause the school and the police to act with a little more restraint in the future.

These are publically funded organizations. The only thing that will happen is that taxes will have to be increased for the area citizens if millions are awarded.

[Sneezyone]

These are publically funded organizations. The only thing that will happen is that taxes will have to be increased for the area citizens if millions are awarded.

 

Then the citizens of that community ought to rise up and stop electing/re-electing/supporting officials that are liabilities and cost them money. They have the decision-makers/government that they voted for.

[Katy]

Then the citizens of that community ought to rise up and stop electing/re-electing/supporting officials that are liabilities and cost them money. They have the decision-makers/government that they voted for.

 

We don't actually know if they made poor decisions or not yet.  He might have said it was a bomb, the school wasn't allowed to tell the media what triggered the whole incident. Now that there is a lawsuit they will be able to tell their side.  I find it hard to believe the story is as simple as the family made it out to be --especially since the father is an activist and the family greatly profited from the entire story.

[SKL]

I don't think they can blame anyone else for the publicity backlash etc., since they started that ball rolling themselves.

 

They could complain about the handcuffs.  They should get whatever every other American kid gets after being handcuffed for no good reason.  I don't think that's $10M.

 

But they may be asking for more trouble, as now there will be even more incentive for the "other side" to fight back, and I doubt it will be pretty.  This could also allow the school system to release its version of what happened at school (the clock incident and prior incidents), which the family had not permitted before.

[albeto.]

These are publically funded organizations. The only thing that will happen is that taxes will have to be increased for the area citizens if millions are awarded.

 

That's not the only thing. Very possibly, those who are in positions of authority in these public institutions will lose their positions, and be replaced by people who allow citizens to actually have access to the rights granted them by law. Ideally, other towns and cities will learn from this and remind their civic servants they can't afford to play at vigilante justice either. 

[ChocolateReignRemix]

We don't actually know if they made poor decisions or not yet. He might have said it was a bomb, the school wasn't allowed to tell the media what triggered the whole incident. Now that there is a lawsuit they will be able to tell their side. I find it hard to believe the story is as simple as the family made it out to be --especially since the father is an activist and the family greatly profited from the entire story.

The police would not have faced any such restrictions. If I recall, they did say they had no grounds to charge him which implies he never said it was a bomb as even a hoax bomb is a criminal offense.

[Katy]

The police would not have faced any such restrictions. If I recall, they did say they had no grounds to charge him which implies he never said it was a bomb as even a hoax bomb is a criminal offense.

 

Well that's true.  But still, there must be more to the story than we've been led to believe.

 

ETA:  wait, no it's not.  If they had had grounds to arrest him they wouldn't have been able to release his specific records.  All we know is that they decided not to arrest him.

Edited November 24, 2015 by Katy

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Well that's true. But still, there must be more to the story than we've been led to believe.

Why? It isn't possible that some people in an area that seems to have some anti-Muslim hysteria overreacted?

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Well that's true. But still, there must be more to the story than we've been led to believe.

 

ETA: wait, no it's not. If they had had grounds to arrest him they wouldn't have been able to release his specific records. All we know is that they decided not to arrest him.

Not true. There is no privacy issue with the police stating they acted on X information. The police chief stated they had no evidence of a crime.

[SKL]

In hindsight, I suspect they will wish they just let the whole thing fade away.

[Katy]

Why? It isn't possible that some people in an area that seems to have some anti-Muslim hysteria overreacted?

 

Possible?  Absolutely.  Probable, given the demographics of that particular school? Not really.  It's not like he was the only Muslim child. It's not like they didn't know what they were choosing to do would be extremely political, given previous news coverage of the growing Muslim community in Irving. 

 

I have previously been horrified at news stories and then later found out social media went viral with a story that was completely wrong, and that the situation was much more complex than the public was previously led to believe. If a situation is especially egregious It's pretty rare for people to be as stupid as horrifying media coverage makes them seem. If there was any question of safety, the school should have erred on the side of caution.

 

What does infuriate me about this story is police questioning him without a parent, lawyer, or advocate present.  They are the ones who should be sued, though there is no grounds for $15 million dollars.  What is extra bothersome about the questioning by the police is what if it had been a bomb...  What if he had known a terrorist?  By violating his rights they were throwing out all potential evidence revealed in the interview.  And yes I'm aware civil rights probably are ignored in the case of terrorism.  It doesn't mean they should be.

 

Background info on Irving, TX:  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2015/09/16/the-history-of-anti-islam-controversy-in-ahmed-mohameds-texas-city/

[GinaPagnato]

They ended up moving to a different country over this, as their solution to solve all problems of stress, fear, fame, a disrupted life in a new land that didn't feel welcoming at all. What happened to Ahmed was more than an inconvenience. It was a denial of legal rights that turned a family upside down. That matters. Meeting the president and enjoying 15 minutes of fame does not undo the damage.

 

I am also disgusted by the sarcasm, and somewhat annoyed, Gina, that you assumed the majority of the board would see this family as a bunch of opportunists. I don't see this as a frivolous lawsuit when I consider what it would mean to my family to go through the same thing.

Oy! Such chastisement!

 

Welp, I'm sorry to disgust and annoy you, but I stand by my sense that this family (whose father was a candidate for the presidency of Sudan--so it's not like they're naiive) is looking for MONEY and that's about it. They've hired an attorney who is hoping to collect his 33.3% pay-out, and who is likely advising them on what and how to say to appear traumatized.

[Alicia64]

How much is your child's innocence and sense of security worth?

 

But why sue? One of my kids once fell out of Disney hotel bunk bed. Went to doctor. He was throwing up. Thankfully no concussion. Disney was clearly terrified that we'd sue and gave us tons of. . .stuff. My kid was fine. Why would we sue? We're not like that.

 

This kid is fine. And, his clock didn't look like a clock. At all.

 

Alley

[SparklyUnicorn]

The amount they want is quite high, but other than that I think they are justified. 

 

 

[Alicia64]

Oy! Such chastisement!

 

Welp, I'm sorry to disgust and annoy you, but I stand by my sense that this family (whose father was a candidate for the presidency of Sudan--so it's not like they're naiive) is looking for MONEY and that's about it. They've hired an attorney who is hoping to collect his 33.3% pay-out, and who is likely advising them on what and how to say to appear traumatized.

 

Sadly, yes.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

But why sue? One of my kids once fell out of Disney hotel bunk bed. Went to doctor. He was throwing up. Thankfully no concussion. Disney was clearly terrified that we'd sue and gave us tons of. . .stuff. My kid was fine. Why would we sue? We're not like that.

 

This kid is fine. And, his clock didn't look like a clock. At all.

 

Alley

Well for one thing, in your case you didn't have a real claim. Bunk beds have an assumption of risk and it doesn't sound like Disney was negligent.

 

In this case, a school violated its own policies, the police broke the law, and a child was placed in handcuffs because some mouth breathers couldn't make a rational decision.

 

Will they get $15 million? Almost certainly not. They do have a great case and more than likely will get an pout of court settlement.

[Halftime Hope]

nm

 

 

Just SMH.  That's all.

Edited November 24, 2015 by Halftime Hope

[Alicia64]

Well for one thing, in your case you didn't have a real claim. Bunk beds have an assumption of risk and it doesn't sound like Disney was negligent.

 

In this case, a school violated its own policies, the police broke the law, and a child was placed in handcuffs because some mouth breathers couldn't make a rational decision.

 

Will they get $15 million? Almost certainly not. They do have a great case and more than likely will get an pout of court settlement.

 

Disney clearly thought they had a problem. The bunk beds weren't totally enforced by a long shot.

 

I agree with you that the child was mistreated and stupidly so, but 15 million?!

 

Yes, they'll likely get an out of court settlement, but . . . it doesn't pass the grandparent test. If my grandparents wouldn't build a clock that looked like a bomb -- and, yes, it looked like a bomb -- and endured a panic reaction. . . they wouldn't think about suing.

 

I think it would be good for many of us to look back on what "the greatest generation" would have done. My Italian grandparents took meals to the Italian prisoners that were housed in CA in WW II. They weren't suing. They were bringing dinners and chatting w/ the Italian prisoners.

 

I think we've lost sight on what being good human beings is about.

 

Alley

Edited November 24, 2015 by Alicia64

[Guest]

 

 

 

.

 

it doesn't pass the grandparent test. If my grandparents wouldn't build a clock that looked like a bomb -- and, yes, it looked like a bomb -- and endured a panic reaction. . . they wouldn't think about suing.

 

I think it would be good for many of us to look back on what "the greatest generation" would have done. My Italian grandparents took meals to the Italian prisoners that were housed in CA in WW II. They weren't suing. They were bringing dinners and chatting w/ the Italian prisoners.

 

 

 

Alley

 

 

 

What?

 

........................What?

[Ali in OR]

If my grandparents wouldn't build a clock that looked like a bomb -- and, yes, it looked like a bomb -- and endured a panic reaction. . . they wouldn't think about suing.

 

 

How do you decide that it looks like a bomb instead of a clock? As an electrical engineering student, my dh once took a class fondly referred to as "the suitcase lab". They had a kit with all kinds of electrical components that fit in a case and they were assigned to build different electronic things--I can't remember if he did an actual clock, but he did something like it or a timer. And no it doesn't look like a clock you buy in a store. The challenge is in figuring out the logic that makes it operate correctly, not in making it look like a product in the store. Everything they built looked pretty similar--wires, circuits, etc. One could say that everything these engineering students made looked like a bomb if you think a bomb is anything with wires and components. This kid sounds like a future engineer to me.

[Mergath]

Disney clearly thought they had a problem. The bunk beds weren't totally enforced by a long shot.

 

I agree with you that the child was mistreated and stupidly so, but 15 million?!

 

Yes, they'll likely get an out of court settlement, but . . . it doesn't pass the grandparent test. If my grandparents wouldn't build a clock that looked like a bomb -- and, yes, it looked like a bomb -- and endured a panic reaction. . . they wouldn't think about suing.

 

I think it would be good for many of us to look back on what "the greatest generation" would have done. My Italian grandparents took meals to the Italian prisoners that were housed in CA in WW II. They weren't suing. They were bringing dinners and chatting w/ the Italian prisoners.

 

I think we've lost sight on what being good human beings is about.

 

Alley

 

Wait... what?  :huh: What in the name of all that is holy do people living in the forties bringing dinner to prisoners have to do with a boy building a clock in 2015? 

[Sneezyone]

At the end of the day, we have neither peace nor security without the civil rights guaranteed by the constitution and our laws. When individuals, and especially government actors, violate them, the penalty ought to be high enough to discourage them from doing it again. The greatest generation (related how?) is the same one that interned the Japanese and that, like this, doesn't pass the smell test either. People are not infallible but that doesn't mean there should be no consequences when mistakes are made.

Edited November 24, 2015 by Sneezyone

[Mergath]

How do you decide that it looks like a bomb instead of a clock? As an electrical engineering student, my dh once took a class fondly referred to as "the suitcase lab". They had a kit with all kinds of electrical components that fit in a case and they were assigned to build different electronic things--I can't remember if he did an actual clock, but he did something like it or a timer. And no it doesn't look like a clock you buy in a store. The challenge is in figuring out the logic that makes it operate correctly, not in making it look like a product in the store. Everything they built looked pretty similar--wires, circuits, etc. One could say that everything these engineering students made looked like a bomb if you think a bomb is anything with wires and components. This kid sounds like a future engineer to me.

 

We went over this ad nauseum in the last thread, but it seriously only looks like a bomb if you have no idea whatsoever what a real bomb looks like, and have only ever seen them on MacGyver.  

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Disney clearly thought they had a problem. The bunk beds weren't totally enforced by a long shot.

 

I agree with you that the child was mistreated and stupidly so, but 15 million?!

 

Yes, they'll likely get an out of court settlement, but . . . it doesn't pass the grandparent test. If my grandparents wouldn't build a clock that looked like a bomb -- and, yes, it looked like a bomb -- and endured a panic reaction. . . they wouldn't think about suing.

 

I think it would be good for many of us to look back on what "the greatest generation" would have done. My Italian grandparents took meals to the Italian prisoners that were housed in CA in WW II. They weren't suing. They were bringing dinners and chatting w/ the Italian prisoners.

 

I think we've lost sight on what being good human beings is about.

 

Alley

I doubt the beds not being reinforced is why your kid fell out.

And Disney obviously doesn't want to be sued, especially when they are not at fault.

 

Regarding the rest of your post...whut?

[Lady Florida.]

I'm disappointed to see that people are still blaming the victim in this situation.

[KungFuPanda]

How do you decide that it looks like a bomb instead of a clock? As an electrical engineering student, my dh once took a class fondly referred to as "the suitcase lab". They had a kit with all kinds of electrical components that fit in a case and they were assigned to build different electronic things--I can't remember if he did an actual clock, but he did something like it or a timer. And no it doesn't look like a clock you buy in a store. The challenge is in figuring out the logic that makes it operate correctly, not in making it look like a product in the store. Everything they built looked pretty similar--wires, circuits, etc. One could say that everything these engineering students made looked like a bomb if you think a bomb is anything with wires and components. This kid sounds like a future engineer to me.

Duh. EVERYBODY knows clock+briefcase+twisty wires = bomb.

[justasque]

 And, his clock didn't look like a clock. At all.

 

Alley

 

Have you ever taken apart a digital clock?  I have.  Ahmed's clock looked exactly like a clock looks when you build it out of electronic bits and pieces.  It had a digital readout and all the components needed to make it work.  Some have even argued that it was very simply made, from a single digital clock taken apart and then put back together, mounted in a pencil case.

 

A bomb may have a timer component, but it also contains an explosive component.  Ahmed's "invention" did not have an explosive component.  Anyone who has even the slightest bit of experience with electronics or other machinery could see that, even without Ahmed's explanation.

 

. . . it doesn't pass the grandparent test. If my grandparents wouldn't build a clock that looked like a bomb -- and, yes, it looked like a bomb -- and endured a panic reaction. . . they wouldn't think about suing.

...I think we've lost sight on what being good human beings is about.

 

Alley

 

Good human beings sometimes take actions to help ensure that the bad things that happened to them or their children do not happen to others.  Here in the US, sometimes that takes the form of legal action.  In this case, the school did not follow their own policies, and the police did not follow the law.  If this case results in both school and legislature to review their policies/laws, to be sure they address potentially harmful situations involving school kids with an eye to both the safety of the school community and minimizing harm/trauma to students who turn out to be innocent (which is a tricky balance), then that could be a good outcome from this lawsuit.  Mind you, the policies and laws seemed to be pretty well done already; had they been followed there would have been no grounds for a lawsuit.  In addition, if this case results in police officers being more proactive in contacting parents when minors are involved in possible criminal activity, that's another good outcome.  

 

When police behave in ways that show the community they serve that they can not be trusted to protect the citizens of the community, we should not blame the victims for using the tools available to them to try to create change.  We are ALL safer when police officers can be trusted to follow the law, especially when it comes to detaining people who have not committed a crime.

[zoobie]

Why? It isn't possible that some people in an area that seems to have some anti-Muslim hysteria overreacted?

Whatever do you mean?

[Tanaqui]

Well that's true.  But still, there must be more to the story than we've been led to believe.

 

Must there? I see no evidence of this supposed "fact".

 

[Halftime Hope]

Some additional reading for those continuing to have any interest in this case.   

 

http://irvingblog.dallasnews.com/2015/11/did-police-mistreat-ahmed-mohamed-a-juvenile-law-expert-weighs-in.html/

 

In a separate thought from the above, I don't know how the family can claim damages against Irving ISD and Irving police for actions that other third parties took on their own, having nothing to do with school or police actions.  You can't hold the police department and school responsible for someone's penchant for crass photo-editing, for example.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mamiof5]

I am sure it was traumatizing, and very scary. We have also had scary situations to deal with, but the idea of suing just never crossed our minds. Can't stand "sue happy" folks who are just after the money. Yes, the school made a mistake, the police too...we are all human and make mistakes...it happens.

[TammyS]

We don't actually know if they made poor decisions or not yet.  He might have said it was a bomb, the school wasn't allowed to tell the media what triggered the whole incident. Now that there is a lawsuit they will be able to tell their side.  I find it hard to believe the story is as simple as the family made it out to be --especially since the father is an activist and the family greatly profited from the entire story.

 

:iagree:   It's not at all clear to me what is really going on here.  One of the two sides is lying through their teeth and ought to be punish, severely.  But I really haven't the faintest which side it is.

 

 

[Haiku]

I am sure it was traumatizing, and very scary. We have also had scary situations to deal with, but the idea of suing just never crossed our minds. Can't stand "sue happy" folks who are just after the money. Yes, the school made a mistake, the police too...we are all human and make mistakes...it happens.

 

And we have court systems to mete out justice when people make "mistakes" that violate the civil rights of others. It is not reasonable to imply that we should just shrug our shoulders and move on when people break the law.

[Tanaqui]

I am sure it was traumatizing, and very scary. We have also had scary situations to deal with, but the idea of suing just never crossed our minds. Can't stand "sue happy" folks who are just after the money. Yes, the school made a mistake, the police too...we are all human and make mistakes...it happens.

 

Funny how mistakes of this nature seem to disproportionately affect some people more than others. Maybe a big payout will induce them to be more careful in the future.

[Laurie4b]

I'm sure it was scary when it happened. Everyone has bent over backwards trying to make up for it, including our President.

 

I also think claiming "trauma" to the tune of millions of dollars is ridiculous.

 

To you, reading about it, it sounded "scary." It would not be at all unlikely that the child developed PTSD in response to such an event.

Psychological trauma can last a lifetime in the form of PTSD. If you have never experienced a level of trauma that can last a lifetime, it's something to be thankful for today.

 

People bending over backwards to make it right does not erase the impact of a psychological trauma on the brain. 

 

I agree the amount is excessive, but in these things, there is an expectation of negotiation.

[HomeAgain]

In the news from "Clock Kid's" town: A group just posted the names and addresses of Muslims and Muslim "sympathizers" there. 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/islamophobic-group-posts-names-addresses-of-texas-muslims-on-facebook_56572f10e4b079b2818a5187?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

I'd be scared to be Muslim in Irving, Tx.  Flat out, I'd move.  I'm totally behind Ahmed's parents for suing the school district and anyone else involved in the arrest.

[Farrar]

I was involved in a lawsuit against my school for violating my rights as teen. We originally did not want to ask for money. We wanted them to change the rules. The lawyers (who were pro bono) said to ask for money. Previous to asking for money, it looked like the whole thing was going to drag on. Once we asked for money, the school immediately said, let's settle and do all the things you wanted.

 

This is the system. Is it a messed up system? Yep. But this is the way courts and lawsuits work. Money is a bargaining chip to effect change. Even when settlements this large are awarded, they are often changed on appeal. And what you ask for isn't what you want. It's a crazy, meant to be intimidating, opening stance.

 

I also agree with those who are saying that money is a way to make sure jurisdictions rethink treating people this way.

[Mergath]

In the news from "Clock Kid's" town: A group just posted the names and addresses of Muslims and Muslim "sympathizers" there.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/islamophobic-group-posts-names-addresses-of-texas-muslims-on-facebook_56572f10e4b079b2818a5187?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

 

I'd be scared to be Muslim in Irving, Tx. Flat out, I'd move. I'm totally behind Ahmed's parents for suing the school district and anyone else involved in the arrest.

Wow. If things get any worse, comparisons to the Nazis are no longer going to be hyperbole. :( When dd and I were in the dentist's waiting room a couple days ago, we had to listen to the family next to us spewing a hate-filled diatribe about Muslims. It was awful, and all because a woman wearing hijab had the nerve to also have an appointment. The dad was shouting that the woman stank (she didn't) and the mom was yelling that Muslims should have their own separate dentists. I would have freaked out on them, but dd was with me and the guy seemed seriously deranged. When I told an employee about it, she actually defended the jerks.

 

I hope this isn't the new normal. :(

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Wow. If things get any worse, comparisons to the Nazis are no longer going to be hyperbole. :( When dd and I were in the dentist's waiting room a couple days ago, we had to listen to the family next to us spewing a hate-filled diatribe about Muslims. It was awful, and all because a woman wearing hijab had the nerve to also have an appointment. The dad was shouting that the woman stank (she didn't) and the mom was yelling that Muslims should have their own separate dentists. I would have freaked out on them, but dd was with me and the guy seemed seriously deranged. When I told an employee about it, she actually defended the jerks.

 

I hope this isn't the new normal. :(

 

Ugh.