Is paying for your child post-college a thing?

[Tsuga]

Starting in poverty with nothing.

 

No help with college, no help with a car, no help with clothes.

 

What poor people get: jack.

 

If you truly believe that it's so possible and virtuous, set your kids up.

 

I was going to and believed it all but on this very board learned how people really made it ahead.

I just barely scraped by but I thought, well heck it's the recession. Divorce. I deserve this.

 

Then I realized where others started. Put together who is well off and who is not.

 

Everyone has stories about one poor person they know but AFAIK I am one of the few self-made on this board (surviving, decent job, career) under 40.

 

And I know exactly how it works because I too work with these populations and look at outcomes.

 

Nobody who knows what I know would ever subject their kid to a dry launch. It's cruel and the chances of making it are so low.

 

Creek land knows her students for a year or two, probably cultivates long-term relationships with a few particularly inspired individuals. But for her own kids?

 

They get everything.

 

As will mine.

 

It is her own story and happiness that convinced me that I had to leave the belief of self-made wealth. A few make it. Most don't. Almost all the kids of wealthy people make it.

[creekland]

Creek, good for you for encouraging these kids! That encouragement might just mean the difference between making it or not.

 

FWIW, I'm not talking obtaining the status of wealthy.  I'm talking about success as defined by being able to support themselves comfortably doing a job they at least like.

 

We, ourselves, don't even make that Top 10% of wealthy nor do I care to do so - though of course I'd never turn it down.  ;)

 

My own kids have basic student loans.  I'm fine with that - as are they.  We see it as a good investment.

 

And with the kids I encourage... it does make the difference sometimes.  There have been some who have come back and shared.

 

If I were a tad less lazy and less hooked on traveling on a whim, I'd actually teach full time all the time.  Making a difference in lives by educating the next generation is very rewarding.  The kids I have now have been vocally sad that I'm leaving them...  Many will have a good future.  Some will even start at CC (and still do well)!

[regentrude]

I think you are naive about changing classes. It doesn't happen often at all and less often in the US than in other countries.

Your students, creek land... They won't make it. We will get them in CC and they drop out because their car breaks down or they have to work to pay for health care.

Parental support is the #1 factor in student success because expectations and college schedules are built around that.

So are tuition charges and the EFC formula that starts at 25.

 

It's not possible. They will be mired in a debt and day to day that the upper middle class will never know. I know so many people on this situation--not just students but faculty. The rich have homes and move on. The poor teach at three colleges.

 

I cannot subscribe to such a pessimistic view, because I have seen the successes.

I see first generation college students with no parental support put themselves through college and succeed.

I remember a student from a poor background who wanted, but could not attend college out of high school because nobody told her about financial aid available and her family did not support college. She told me she had come to the conclusion that "college was not for the likes of her". She went finally to school at age 30 and as mom of two kids - and she is succeeding. She was one of my favorite students.

I see students who worked several years go to college later in life, get a degree, and do very well.

I had a divorced mother of four work very hard to get her degree to become independent of her ex's whims.

I see transfer students from community college who pay for their own education through their own work.

Once they graduate, they are firmly middle class; our average starting salary is 59k.

 

And I see students with financial support who fail the same class four times because they don't have to pay their own tuition - such laziness is not an option (and also not a problem) for the students who put themselves through school.

I see the rewards of work ethic.

 

And there are students who get merit aid for a full ride. Some board members on this board have their student attend college for free -because of merit, not "connections".

 

I sense that you are very bitter, and I am sorry about that - but there are other stories.

 

 

Edited November 19, 2015 by regentrude

[Guest]

I cannot subscribe to such a pessimistic view, because I have seen the successes.

I see first generation college students with no parental support put themselves through college and succeed.

I remember a student from a poor background who could not attend college out of high school because nobody told her about financial aid available and her family did not support college. She went finally to school at age 30 and as mom of two kids - and she is succeeding. She was one of my favorite students.

I see students who worked several years go to college later in life, get a degree, and do very well.

I had a divorced mother of four work very hard to get her degree to become independent.

I see transfer students from community college who pay for their own education through their own work.

Once they graduate, they are firmly middle class; our average starting salary is 59k.

 

And I see students with financial support who fail the same class four times because they don't have to pay their own tuition - such laziness is not an option (and also not a problem) for the students who put themselves through school.

I see the rewards of work ethic.

 

And there are students who get merit aid for a full ride. Some board members on this board have their student attend college for free -because of merit, not "connections".

 

I sense that you are very bitter, and I am sorry about that - but there are other stories.

That's been what I have seen too, and hubby with me, which is why we don't feel we are shorting our kids some sort of magical inoculation of our SES by limiting our parental monetary support in their adulthood. That isn't the determiner of success - it wasn't for me OR him. We aren't willing to just boot someone out without a care but I still cannot imagine some of what has been discussed here. He basically said we have the money and still won't do it because we believe it isn't best for their individual development. We do that even today - say no to all sorts of spends and opportunities because we believe in teaching them the value of budgeting and making priorities and choices.

 

I would be surprised if our kids didn't maintain our SES or exceed it. But I don't think they need to have us paying for expenses to do that. We will help some, but not like the parents in the OP. I just can't get behind that much largesse to the kiddos.

 

I must love my kids less than everyone else :p (jk, obviously)

 

It's been an interesting discussion, ladies.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Arctic Mama

[BarbecueMom]

You can be a successful first-gen college grad and pull yourself out of poverty and still be bitter. I'll claim it. I have a parent who is barely self-supporting. Wasn't "ready to launch" at 18. Probably less ready to launch now, 35+ years later. Long story.

 

It's not about receiving help financially, or parents able help and choosing not to. Those kids probably end up rising or falling on their own merits. Having parents that are incapable of making responsible decisions about money (or anything, really) puts one at a disadvantage that follows you throughout adulthood.

 

On my best days, I take comfort in the fact that at least my kids will never be burdened with some of the crap I went/go through and won't be bailing me out regularly. And I remember that excrement occurs, you just have to deal with it.

 

But sometimes I take a day off to shamelessly wallow in resentment.

[creekland]

Creek land knows her students for a year or two, probably cultivates long-term relationships with a few particularly inspired individuals. But for her own kids?

 

They get everything.

 

As will mine.

 

It is her own story and happiness that convinced me that I had to leave the belief of self-made wealth. A few make it. Most don't. Almost all the kids of wealthy people make it.

 

Creekland lives in a rural area and tends to know more about many students due to that.  Since I've been working for 15 years now, there's quite a few I've seen the future for.  My sons have taken CC classes (for high school) and their peers who were there for college tend to still be doing quite well.

 

And yes, my kids get our full support with many things in life - though they still have their own student loans.  Mine have the advantage of having college educated parents who love to travel and love to share all of our experiences and knowledge with our kids.  We prefer to include them in our lives all the time.  They're a little shorted when it comes to Hollywood, Fashion, or Sports knowledge though - as am I.

 

I agree with you that students who come from families like mine (or yours) have far better odds than many of the truly poor.  A good part of that is due to poor nutrition/health from fetal development on.  Another good part is due to the lack of experiences, not limited to travel, but books, and just someone who will listen to them and answer their questions honestly - someone who will encourage learning.

 

I've had students tell me they've been inspired by me to turn on some documentaries at home - only to be chided by their parents for "watching that crap."  I work to balance the other side - to show them possibilities that can come from education - that cycles can be broken - that learning can be fun.  I show them that knowledge and education can help them, their lives, and their planet - regardless of what niche they want to find later on.

 

But plenty by high school have already sifted themselves down or missed out on the health/nutrition needed to actually be able to do more.  Some have opted for drugs/alcohol (not limited to the poor).

 

You're entirely wrong that the children of the wealthy and/or educated always make it.  No they don't.  It still depends upon what influences they've had on their lives AND what they choose to do with them.

[creekland]

Having parents that are incapable of making responsible decisions about money (or anything, really) puts one at a disadvantage that follows you throughout adulthood.

 

So true.  It's why I unapologetically teach social and real life skills to all teens I have as well as whatever academic subject I'm tasked with.  Some do not have parents to do this for them - and some merely won't listen to their parents, but have no issues with listening to someone else.

 

There was a period of time when my own youngest learned these skills better from a couple of other people in his life.  

 

That's ok.  It is perfectly normal for some students.

 

:grouphug:  for your situation though.  Life isn't easy or storybook many times.

[regentrude]

 Having parents that are incapable of making responsible decisions about money (or anything, really) puts one at a disadvantage that follows you throughout adulthood.

 

Yes. There is no way to level the playing field when it comes to dysfunctional families - short of taking children from their families and raising them in institutions (and even then, there is genetics...)

I am sorry you had to deal with it. And I am sorry for every child who grows up with irresponsible or messed up parents.

 

But I see no way to make this "fair". The only thing I can do is be available as a responsible adult and role model for young people in my circle who don't have one in their home. Not sure what else there is.

[BarbecueMom]

So true. It's why I unapologetically teach social and real life skills to all teens I have as well as whatever academic subject I'm tasked with. Some do not have parents to do this for them - and some merely won't listen to their parents, but have no issues with listening to someone else.

 

There was a period of time when my own youngest learned these skills better from a couple of other people in his life.

 

That's ok. It is perfectly normal for some students.

 

:grouphug: for your situation though. Life isn't easy or storybook many times.

Just having the skills isn't enough though.

 

It's saving money for an emergency fund, and then the parent needs $500 for back rent or faces eviction.

 

It's thousands of dollars in dental bills at age 20 that could have been prevented by regular childhood dental care that the insured parent was "scared of".

 

It's wasting school days or dragging toddlers all over creation giving rides to work when the parent's car breaks down for the bajillionth time or gets repossessed... again.

 

And so forth and so forth. It's just one thing on top of another because whatever sockets in the brain enable one to manage self-sufficiency are lacking bulbs.

[Hikin' Mama]

Just having the skills isn't enough though.

 

It's saving money for an emergency fund, and then the parent needs $500 for back rent or faces eviction.

 

It's thousands of dollars in dental bills at age 20 that could have been prevented by regular childhood dental care that the insured parent was "scared of".

 

It's wasting school days or dragging toddlers all over creation giving rides to work when the parent's car breaks down for the bajillionth time or gets repossessed... again.

 

And so forth and so forth. It's just one thing on top of another because whatever sockets in the brain enable one to manage self-sufficiency are lacking bulbs.

Hugs, BarbecueMom.

[Bluegoat]

It strikes me that some of this is a problem with the vision of success.  I don't know that being successful - which I think means being secure far more than it means being wealthy -  should require things like university education and trips to France.  There is something a little messed up, and even decadent, when those are the kinds of things that will put you in a position for a good life.

[luuknam]

It strikes me that some of this is a problem with the vision of success.  I don't know that being successful - which I think means being secure far more than it means being wealthy -  should require things like university education and trips to France.  There is something a little messed up, and even decadent, when those are the kinds of things that will put you in a position for a good life.

 

Besides, while some people are saying that there isn't much upward mobility, some people don't care much about their children ending up in a higher socio-economic class. I think most people in poverty would like for their kids to not be in poverty, but I'm not sure how many people in the middle class care about their kids becoming upper class or even upper middle class. I don't really care. I don't want them to fall into poverty, but I'm not concerned about whether they'll be middle class or upper class (and, by most measures I've seen, we're lower middle class, in which case I'd be fine with my kids being lower middle class as well, since we're doing just fine, but we're not in a high COL area, so I'm not sure how well those various measures work). I wouldn't mind my kids striking it rich some day, but I'm not going to prop them up into their 30s in order for them to reach the upper class or w/e.

 

ETA: mentioning this since this is what Tsuga seems to be talking about. IIUC, Tsuga is some level of middle class, and is trying to help her kids achieve upward mobility. Not sure how common that is.

Edited November 20, 2015 by luuknam

[Bluegoat]

Besides, while some people are saying that there isn't much upward mobility, some people don't care much about their children ending up in a higher socio-economic class. I think most people in poverty would like for their kids to not be in poverty, but I'm not sure how many people in the middle class care about their kids becoming upper class or even upper middle class. I don't really care. I don't want them to fall into poverty, but I'm not concerned about whether they'll be middle class or upper class (and, by most measures I've seen, we're lower middle class, in which case I'd be fine with my kids being lower middle class as well, since we're doing just fine, but we're not in a high COL area, so I'm not sure how well those various measures work). I wouldn't mind my kids striking it rich some day, but I'm not going to prop them up into their 30s in order for them to reach the upper class or w/e.

 

ETA: mentioning this since this is what Tsuga seems to be talking about. IIUC, Tsuga is some level of middle class, and is trying to help her kids achieve upward mobility. Not sure how common that is.

 

Yup, this is my sense as well, you've explained what i was intuiting much better than I did.

 

My husband and I both went to university, but I'm quite happy if my kids all go for trades or something completely different.  The idea that everyone could be upwardly mobile, or that it would be good for society, seems crazy to me.  The ideal surely is to have living wages, approprate options for health care and education, and an expectation of financial stability for people, whatever type of work they do. 

 

I'm not even all that convinced that 30 years from now a university degree will be the best way to have that kind of stability.

 

[Farrar]

Just thinking about mobility... of course there are success stories, but statistically, it's not something everyone can achieve. In fact, it's more limited than our anecdotes would like us to think - a lot more. And for the people who do achieve it, there's an ounce of hard work and a pound of luck. For the people who don't achieve it, they can put it just as many ounces or even pounds of hard work and without that good luck, they may just eke by. Realistically, getting a head start with parents who pay for SOMETHING, whether explicitly ("Here's your rent and forward me your student loan bills, sweetie!") or through generosity ("Merry Christmas, I got you a bunch of new work clothes and there's just a little something for you in that envelope!") helps a ton for people. 

 

In the US, we tend to lump everyone into one vast middle class. I assume that Tsuga is talking about having struggled and currently just getting by and feeling that she can do better for her kids and eliminate some of that struggle if possible. I don't read what she's saying as she wants her kids to move up to being the richy rich. I also read what she's saying as if she could provide that, that would be fine and great too. But I don't read that as her goal.

[Bluegoat]

i don't think that's what she is getting at either, but rather the element of struggle.

 

My feeling though is that upward mobility as a widespread solution is largely illusory, and if people are going to put their hope in that, it will never serve most. 

[Julie Smith]

Comparing upward mobility by country

 

http://www.verisi.com/resources/prosperity-upward-mobility.htm

[SharonM]

My ds is in graduate school. he earns a stipend as a research assistant, that is decent for him, plus the research job also pays his tuition. He lives at home now because its close and he couldn't afford much on the stipend. He helps out around that house and always fixes my computer. So we are really glad to help out in the only way we can. But when he gets a "real" job things will be different if he stays.

[creekland]

As mentioned before, I'm not talking about becoming wealthy.  I'm talking about success - defined as being able to support oneself comfortably doing a job they like.

 

That's where we're at.  Our income is nowhere near Top 10%.

 

But education achieved via a combo of academics, travel, & various experiences?  That's priceless and something I want to encourage ALL to take part in.  Pending path one wants, it may or may not include college.

 

An educated person has a far greater chance at achieving success because they can think, work, and have a chance at finding alternate paths when the one they are on becomes blocked.  I work to educate the next generation - as do the majority of us considering we're on the Well Trained Mind homeschooling board!

[DawnM]

Ok, now you have me looking up percentages:

 

I guess I thought the 10% would earn more than that.  Huh......

 

 

WHAT THE TOP 1%, 5%, 10%, 25% and 50% MAKE IN AMERICA

Based on the Internal Revenue Service’s 2010-2014 database below, here’s how much the top Americans make:

Top 1%: $380,354

Top 5%: $159,619

Top 10%: $113,799

Top 25%: $67,280

Top 50%: >$33,048

- See more at: http://www.financialsamurai.com/how-much-money-do-the-top-income-earners-make-percent/#sthash.hfSX9hmI.dpuf

 

 

This one has some different statistics:

 

http://money.cnn.com/calculator/pf/income-rank/

 

It says you need to make $148K to be in the top 10%.

Edited November 20, 2015 by DawnM

[creekland]

Like I said... we're not in the Top 10% - by either source.

 

We're doing fine though - esp since we're in a lower COL area and we don't have high needs for how our house looks or new clothes or fancy toys, etc.

 

We are comfortably in the Top 25%, so we're not poor either.

[Jenny in Florida]

As mentioned before, I'm not talking about becoming wealthy.  I'm talking about success - defined as being able to support oneself comfortably doing a job they like.

 

That's where we're at.  Our income is nowhere near Top 10%.

 

But education achieved via a combo of academics, travel, & various experiences?  That's priceless and something I want to encourage ALL to take part in.  Pending path one wants, it may or may not include college.

 

An educated person has a far greater chance at achieving success because they can think, work, and have a chance at finding alternate paths when the one they are on becomes blocked.  I work to educate the next generation - as do the majority of us considering we're on the Well Trained Mind homeschooling board!

 

I'm very much on the same page with regard to a definition of success, and I also have a pretty broad definition of what it means to be "educated." And I, personally, believe that my most significant responsibility is raising and supporting my children to help them become educated and successful. In our case, in part because of failures we've witnessed in our own families, part of this support includes strongly encouraging our kids to take responsibility for their own lives as soon as it is appropriate for them to do so.

 

I guess another way to say this is that, from my point of view, learning to function by relying on your own resources is a major component of becoming an educated, confident, successful adult.

 

It was a part of my education that was sorely lacking, and I had an extremely rough launch as a result -- a rough launch I'm still paying for in a number of ways.

 

So, for me, academics and travel and a wide variety of great experiences are absolutely important, and we do our level best to provide as many opportunities as we can for our kids to pursue them. However, that is done within an overall framework of having those things lead to the goal of self-sufficiency.

[katilac]

Interesting discussion that has veered off into a lot of directions! 

 

 <snip>
  I started looking for paid jobs in different cities, but the problem was that I would need the money to rent a moving truck, get there, put first and last month's rent on an apartment, get the utilities hooked up, and live until I got my first few paychecks. <snip>

My friends who had some modest support <snip>
 

 

Yep,  there are significant costs to setting yourself up in even the cheapest of apartments, and very few American cities are set up to enable one to work a professional job without a car. And it's great when you can live at home after graduation, but not helpful if home isn't where the jobs are!  

 

The OP was talking about substantial amounts of help, but modest amounts of help launching can make a huge long-term difference. 

 

Question: do you hail from a region or culture that has multigenerational homes as typical? That may explain part of this difference.

In marrying my religion specifically indicates that w child is to leave their mother and father and join in all senses to their spouse - this is the new family unit. Extended family is important but can create complications, especially when a married couple is establishing themselves. But for, say, an Indian, Chinese, or even Guatemalan family this is going to be far less typical and longer term family ties, property and financial, would be more normal.

 

I think it is far more cultural than religious. I agree that there can be extra complications living together when a married couple is establishing themselves, but I also think that it's very possible to live with extended family and each still make your own decisions. It wouldn't work in our particular families, someone would wind up in prison, but I definitely think it can work. 

 

<snip>
Maybe your experiences have been better - newlyweds living with inlaws has actually been horrible in our family and caused immense stress and difficulty, especially for the child who married into the family.  <snip>

I would have been ashamed to stay with my relatives or my husband's in all except emergency temporary circumstances.  <snip> He and I are both agreed that once you're married you don't go home to mom and dad, though, unless they need medical care or *they* need a roof. <snip>

All of this is quite aside from a twenty something or thirty something mooching off mommy to fund their world travels, though. That's where I have the biggest issue.

 

This was a very interesting post for me to read. I'm a bit puzzled as to why you attach such strong shame to living with a parent as an adult, but none to a parent living with adult offspring. In either case, an adult needs help. In either case, it could be through no one's fault, or it could be the result of laziness, carelessness with money, and so on.  Where do you think the difference comes in?

 

As far as world travels: are you referring specifically to the OP and people working abroad but still getting funded by parents, or do you think it's wrong in all cases for a parent to pay for an adult child to spend a semester, year, or vacation abroad? Does it make a difference if the parent pays but goes along? 

 

Which leads me to another question, for you and others: if you think it's wrong/undesirable for a parent to pay for things or give adult children money, do you also think it's wrong to inherit money from your parents? Would you turn down an inheritance? If not, what do you think makes the difference between the parent giving money when they are alive or after they are dead? 

 

Like a few others have noted, my thinking on helping adult offspring has changed a lot over the years. It's something I continue to ponder, and I'm interested in what others think. Right now, I'm at the point where I see what a huge difference it can make to give help sooner rather than later, and I'm very inclined to give practical monetary help (as able) when my kids graduate. 

 

I would also prefer to pay or help pay for my kids to go abroad (or whatever they want to do along similar lines) when they are young. There are a lot of things you can do much more easily as a young, single adult as opposed to an older person established in a career or with a family. I would just as well do that as leave them money when I die. 

 

 But I have wondered at times if that sort of thinking isn't actually an important way of conserving wealth.  

 

 

I think it's an incredibly important way of conserving wealth (whether or not one agrees that wealth should be preserved). As you said, wealth not just in the sense of riches, but land, jobs, businesses, general security. 

 

Yes, this.  I couldn't imagine having my parents support me after I graduated from college.  I was eager to become totally self-sufficient so that I would be free to make my own decisions without having to answer to my mom who tried to control every minute aspect of my life if she supported me financially, and would use that financial support as a weapon to get her way.  She was very willing to do it, but I was the one who cut the financial support off.  But not all families are like that....

 

Yes, some people do use money as a form of control. I think this should be resisted at all costs, but I think the same about emotional manipulation and other forms of control. 

 

I think this is an over-generalization. It's entirely possible for one young adult to live on "starter wages" if that young adult is frugal and responsible. As I've mentioned earlier in this thread, my daughter -- who has one of those dreaded, useless arts degrees -- does exactly that.

 

<snip>

 

Her basic living expenses come almost entirely out of her paychecks. As I said, she is still on our medical insurance, and we cover her  cell phone bill, because it makes sense to keep her on the family plan. We have paid for her tickets to come home for holidays. Otherwise, she is self-supporting and has been since age 19.

 

<snip>

 

So, yes, it's entirely possible to not just survive but thrive on a starter salary, as long as one has reasonable expectations about what that life will mean.

 

It sounds like your dd is doing great and working hard, but, again, don't underestimate the power of modest help. It can be the difference between life on the edge versus falling over the edge. Insurance, a cell phone, and trips home would be a godsend to many young adults.  

 

<snip>  He and I both agreed we would help each kid with the first two years of college and continue to save for them for a down payment for their homes,   

 

You would pay for the first two years of college, not the last two, but help them with a down payment? What's the reasoning there? 

 

 <snip> I wasnt that poor, but I had to forgo medical, vision and dental care as my loans didnt stretch that far. That cost me thousands as an adult. I made it because a few people gave me what I needed to fill my gaps ...just 50 a month more in loans and I wouldnt have been visibly needing help.

 

Yep, modest help is very powerful. I think it's easy for people who get or give modest help to downplay it and say stuff like we did it all on our own, except for . . . and they don't realize how significant that "except" is. 

[TranquilMind]

Now we've reached the 'shoud's.

 

Functioning as a family unit is not mooching.

 

As for "what the future holds" -- in such families it probably holds a fully funded retirement, good healthcare and life insurance, stable adult children who own homes nearby to you, who are not financially stressed, are free to visit and drive you places (in clean reliable vehicles), complete with well-adjusted grandchildren to put on the kinds of dance recitals and soccer games that grandparents love. These people bring you cupcakes.

 

Yes, money can buy most of those things -- or you could just keep the money in the bank, let the kids do their best starting from scratch, and they can get rich when you die... Just when they need it least.

Well, I've already been a caregiver, back in the days when insurance was actually useful and covered huge hospital expenses, as it does not do today.  Even then, the money was mostly gone, and this was for a healthy person who saved lifelong, who only had a couple of months of health issues. 

 

One illness can wipe out savings.  One brief hospitalization and illness today could make someone lose everything.  So you are really assuming that anyone is ready for retirement today.  Most boomers either lost a lot in the crash, or the younger boomers do not have enough to live on for very long.   

 

Your idyllic viewpoint is exactly what I hope to see (and be!), but am afraid that not everyone will see it. 

I'm all for helping to launch your kids, but do not believe an ongoing financial support system serves them well.  It ends sooner or later and they have to stand alone.  Very few will "die rich". 

Edited November 20, 2015 by TranquilMind

[Arcadia]

My parents marry late and had kids late due to medical reasons. They paid for three generation family vacations because my mom's rheumatism is making travelling harder every year.

 

By the time my oldest was three, my mom already had a hard time walking. It doesn't make sense to reject their generosity to pay for a vacation together when my parents want the memories too.

 

ETA:

My dad is a pensioner and my mom is covered in his medical benefits. They are in their 70s, born during WWII.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Arcadia

[Bluegoat]

Interesting discussion that has veered off into a lot of directions! 

 

 

Yep,  there are significant costs to setting yourself up in even the cheapest of apartments, and very few American cities are set up to enable one to work a professional job without a car. And it's great when you can live at home after graduation, but not helpful if home isn't where the jobs are!  

 

 

i hadn't thought of this before, but I know a few people, a little older than me, that moved for jobs and started out living in a place like the YWCA or a hostel. 

 

I think that used to be fairly common, but I haven't heard of anyone doing something like that for a while.  I am wondering what the reason for that is?  I know around here it is hard today to find newer rooming houses because the codes don't allow for them - only the old ones remain, most of which are nasty.

[Jenny in Florida]

i hadn't thought of this before, but I know a few people, a little older than me, that moved for jobs and started out living in a place like the YWCA or a hostel.

 

I think that used to be fairly common, but I haven't heard of anyone doing something like that for a while. I am wondering what the reason for that is? I know around here it is hard today to find newer rooming houses because the codes don't allow for them - only the old ones remain, most of which are nasty.

When my daughter made her move, she booked a room through AirBnB for her first month in town. She was prepared to either extend there or move to another, similar place for a second month, if necessary. However, she ended up connecting eiw her current roommates and signing the lease where she is before the first month ended.

[creekland]

By the time my oldest was three, my mom already had a hard time walking. It doesn't make sense to reject their generosity to pay for a vacation together when my parents want the memories too.

 

My mom wants the memories with her grandkids too - and we want them with her.  

 

For too many years she wasn't part of our lives (mostly due to my dad and their divorce, but a little just because I was young and self centered).  I see no reason to discourage her generosity and I hope to be able to do the same with my own kids/grandkids.  It will certainly be a high priority for us.

[Guest]

Katilac, I'll address one portion of this - we already have accounts for each child and save their PFD and any birthday money until they're an adult, for a home down payment. They should have anywhere from 25-50k by 20 years of age depending on how much we invest each year. Our eight year old already has in excess of 14k in her account. My husband's family did that with him and he owned a quarter of his home by the time we married.

 

We pay for the first two years of college to allow the kids to establish themselves in good academic habits and begin saving during the summers for future years. We cannot and do not desire to fund the entire thing. But helping them acclimate to college and discourage them staying in for three degrees on our dime is our goal. A balance of helping and not giving them a full safety net. Hubby is more convinced of this than me.

 

College is a check we write, not an account. The savings account is separate, that is why it sounded a bit confusing.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Arctic Mama

[bolt.]

Well, I've already been a caregiver, back in the days when insurance was actually useful and covered huge hospital expenses, as it does not do today. Even then, the money was mostly gone, and this was for a healthy person who saved lifelong, who only had a couple of months of health issues.

 

One illness can wipe out savings. One brief hospitalization and illness today could make someone lose everything. So you are really assuming that anyone is ready for retirement today. Most boomers either lost a lot in the crash, or the younger boomers do not have enough to live on for very long.

 

Your idyllic viewpoint is exactly what I hope to see (and be!), but am afraid that not everyone will see it.

I'm all for helping to launch your kids, but do not believe an ongoing financial support system serves them well. It ends sooner or later and they have to stand alone. Very few will "die rich".

I'm sorry to hear that American healthcare functionally impoverishes nearly your entire population before they die. I suspected that was the case, and I think it's incredibly unethical.

 

In most of the world, people who have wealth in life tend to leave inheritances when they die.

 

In the unique Anerican circumstances (as you describe) I would think it would be even wiser to establish your children during their young/middle adulthood -- since even well off people will become penniless when they are elderly/ill. They might as well buy a good lifestyle for the people that they will become dependant on. Transferring as much wealth as possible to your kids seems like the very best plan in that case... What am I missing?

[pinkmint]

Interesting to read through the replies. Haven't read all of them but...

 

My mother has been shielded from a lifetime of poor choice consequences because of my grandmother "helping" her. My mom is in her 60's and things haven't really changed. Grandma is in her 90's but has made good decisions with the business that her husband left in her care at his death, so she has enough money to continue on like this. In this case, it hasn't been a positive thing. I feel like my mom single handedly started a cycle of poverty. She's like a black hole that destroys resources that might have been used to help our family line succeed in America (my grandparents are first generation Americans). 

[pinkmint]

Also, I think things can get complicated when you through a broken home in there. It surprises me that so many people seem to come from in-tact homes where parents work together for the common good of their children. I'm sure it won't be the case for generations to come. My parents have been divorced for a long time and are basically hateful towards eachother and will even avoid their children's major life events if it means running into one another. So that's to say, there is nothing they are willing to work together on like helping the children they have. Plus you have the struggles of making your own way after divorce. Plus my dad is remarried and his wife seems to see my dad's kids as enemies by virtue of being from my mom/ her rival. It's all pretty unfortunate. 

 

Sometimes I reflect on how odd it is that my dad and his childless wife (just the 2 people) live in a home that is 3 and 1/2 times the size of the one my husband and I live in with our 3 kids (5 people). But ultimately, I don't want their money because there are crazy strings attached. It feels good to have our humble (and by their standards poverty stricken) liefstyle because it's what we've worked for in an honest way. If things were different it would be a wonderful blessing to be helped by caring family to achieve things like home ownership and move out of our low income neighborhood, but it's just not the case. 

 

My kids are all young but we will help them with whatever we have (which is close to nothing but still) with the expectation that they are not lazy and stupid with their life choices. 

[creekland]

Also, I think things can get complicated when you through a broken home in there. It surprises me that so many people seem to come from in-tact homes where parents work together for the common good of their children. I'm sure it won't be the case for generations to come. My parents have been divorced for a long time and are basically hateful towards eachother and will even avoid their children's major life events if it means running into one another.  

 

It doesn't necessarily spell doom.  My parents divorced when I was 11 and they still don't get along.  My dad wouldn't come to my graduations (high school/college) or wedding.  Neither had wealth when I was growing up and they aren't extraordinarily wealthy now either, but my mom was wise with her finances, so is doing fine.  My dad has oodles of debt due to poor choices.  

 

But I think I turned out ok in spite of it all - even though I lived with my dad from age 11 until 17, so certainly didn't have the best model to follow.

[Frances]

Ok, now you have me looking up percentages:

 

I guess I thought the 10% would earn more than that. Huh......

 

 

WHAT THE TOP 1%, 5%, 10%, 25% and 50% MAKE IN AMERICA

Based on the Internal Revenue Service’s 2010-2014 database below, here’s how much the top Americans make:

Top 1%: $380,354

Top 5%: $159,619

Top 10%: $113,799

Top 25%: $67,280

Top 50%: >$33,048

- See more at: http://www.financialsamurai.com/how-much-money-do-the-top-income-earners-make-percent/#sthash.hfSX9hmI.dpuf

 

 

This one has some different statistics:

 

http://money.cnn.com/calculator/pf/income-rank/

 

It says you need to make $148K to be in the top 10%.

For the IRS numbers, it's important to note that they are based on AGI, so many in the upper categories are likely earning significantly more in untaxed income. As an example, a two-earner couple could have close to $40K in untaxed retirement contributions and another significant untaxed amount in health savings and health premiums. So the almost $114K for the top 10% could actually be much closer to $170K in wages.

[Frances]

Also, I think things can get complicated when you through a broken home in there. It surprises me that so many people seem to come from in-tact homes where parents work together for the common good of their children. I'm sure it won't be the case for generations to come. My parents have been divorced for a long time and are basically hateful towards eachother and will even avoid their children's major life events if it means running into one another. So that's to say, there is nothing they are willing to work together on like helping the children they have. Plus you have the struggles of making your own way after divorce. Plus my dad is remarried and his wife seems to see my dad's kids as enemies by virtue of being from my mom/ her.

Not surprisingly, research has shown that getting married and staying married is strongly correlated with financial security.

[luuknam]

It surprises me that so many people seem to come from in-tact homes where parents work together for the common good of their children. I'm sure it won't be the case for generations to come.

 

In general, or on this board? I think this board is likely to be different from the average wrt divorce rates.

[OnTheBrink]

 

 

Is this a trend?  Has it always been this way?

 

 

HA! Not in my world. Once you've graduated college and have secured employment, you're on your own, baby. 

[gardenmom5]

there have always been parents who can't bear the thought of their babies living in cold basement apartments living off potatoes and doing without modern luxuries because they just graduated from college and have loans to pay off.  but there are now more of them with money to spare.

 

Miss Manners did say when she was in college - they always borrowed money from her middle class friends, whose parents gave them extra money each month.  her more afluent friends parents allowed them to experience being broke.

 

we've helped kids while they were students - I have two completely on their own (and two who are students).  while 1dd did move home after college . . . . it was more to do with her health than income. and enabled her to save for a downpayment on a house.

[gardenmom5]

For the IRS numbers, it's important to note that they are based on AGI, so many in the upper categories are likely earning significantly more in untaxed income. As an example, a two-earner couple could have close to $40K in untaxed retirement contributions and another significant untaxed amount in health savings and health premiums. So the almost $114K for the top 10% could actually be much closer to $170K in wages.

 

and honestly - you need to look at the col in the area where a given person/couple live.

 

that $113K can go a long way in some areas - and be barely breaking even in others.

[Guest]

and honestly - you need to look at the col in the area where a given person/couple live.

 

that $113K can go a long way in some areas - and be barely breaking even in others.

Yup, that's our experience. DH is in the top three percent of wage earners as an individual, but he has six dependents and lives in a HCOL area. We live pretty modestly for our town, which is full of DINKs and is the most educated per capita in our state. It all depends.

 

If we moved to almost any other state except those in New England or the West Coast, we would come out with a much higher standard of living than what we can obtain here.

[Audrey]

I don't know if it's a "thing," but I think if you can help, it's the decent thing to try.  Just because life was harsh on you doesn't mean you have to be a dick to your kids and make life harsh on them.

[pinkmint]

Not surprisingly, research has shown that getting married and staying married is strongly correlated with financial security.

 

Makes a lot of sense to me. Granted, sometimes divorce cannot be avoided but it just goes to show that there are profound consequences. And the notion that divorced people with children can be polite and work towards a common good of their children is something so foreign in my own experience of divorced parents. Also my experience of my dad's remarriage, unfortunately, adds to the evil stepmother cliche. 

 

I don't want to get too carried away and off topic, but I do think that it's worth mentioning that many "launching" children of broken homes are often uniquely screwed in this regard. 

[Lady Florida.]

I don't know if it's a "thing," but I think if you can help, it's the decent thing to try.  Just because life was harsh on you doesn't mean you have to be a dick to your kids and make life harsh on them.

 

^^^^ Yes!  :hurray:

[LucyStoner]

Katilac, I'll address one portion of this - we already have accounts for each child and save their PFD and any birthday money until they're an adult, for a home down payment. They should have anywhere from 25-50k by 20 years of age depending on how much we invest each year. Our eight year old already has in excess of 14k in her account. My husband's family did that with him and he owned a quarter of his home by the time we married.

 

We pay for the first two years of college to allow the kids to establish themselves in good academic habits and begin saving during the summers for future years. We cannot and do not desire to fund the entire thing. But helping them acclimate to college and discourage them staying in for three degrees on our dime is our goal. A balance of helping and not giving them a full safety net. Hubby is more convinced of this than me.

 

College is a check we write, not an account. The savings account is separate, that is why it sounded a bit confusing.

How do you expect them to pay for the last two years? Merit based scholarships will be their only option unless they wait to return to school when they can be independent students. They will not be eligible for financial aid if under 24 and unmarried/childless or not a veteran or emancipated or legally homeless. 1/2 of a degree plus $5 will get you a sandwich. And around here, maybe a job making sandwiches.

 

My city is filled with young adults from other states whose parents tried too hard to dictate what they would do- get this degree, get that degree, get only one degree, get married and buy a house etc. They seem to mostly work as baristas and be biding their time to go to school until they can do so without their parents finances factoring in.

Edited November 22, 2015 by LucyStoner

[LucyStoner]

Not surprisingly, research has shown that getting married and staying married is strongly correlated with financial security.

Yes. Though the numbers also support that delaying marriage and having higher educational attainment is correlated with staying married once you do marry. Which is why I would be loathe to press my kids into needing to marry to access financial aid or something.

[unsinkable]

Katilac, I'll address one portion of this - we already have accounts for each child and save their PFD and any birthday money until they're an adult, for a home down payment. They should have anywhere from 25-50k by 20 years of age depending on how much we invest each year. Our eight year old already has in excess of 14k in her account. My husband's family did that with him and he owned a quarter of his home by the time we married.

 

We pay for the first two years of college to allow the kids to establish themselves in good academic habits and begin saving during the summers for future years. We cannot and do not desire to fund the entire thing. But helping them acclimate to college and discourage them staying in for three degrees on our dime is our goal. A balance of helping and not giving them a full safety net. Hubby is more convinced of this than me.

 

College is a check we write, not an account. The savings account is separate, that is why it sounded a bit confusing.

How do you expect them to pay for the last two years? Merit based scholarships will be there only option unless they wait to return to school when they can be independent students. They will not be eligible for financial aid if under 24 and unmarried/childless or not a veteran or emancipated or legally homeless. 1/2 of a degree plus $5 will get you a sandwich. And around here, maybe a job making sandwiches.

 

My city is filled with young adults from other states whose parents tried too hard to dictate what they would do- get this degree, get that degree, get only one degree, get married and buy a house etc. They seem to mostly work as baristas and be biding their time to go to school until they can do so without their parents finances factoring in.

Did you miss the part where AM wrote "we CANNOT fund the entire thing"?

[Jane in NC]

Did you miss the part where AM wrote "we CANNOT fund the entire thing"?

 

But AM also said that they are saving for a down payment for their children's first house.  Clearly she and her husband are choosing to fund a down payment over college.  Or did I misinterpret?

 

Personally I found this to be an interesting economic decision--not one that I have encountered before. 

 

[unsinkable]

But AM also said that they are saving for a down payment for their children's first house. Clearly she and her husband are choosing to fund a down payment over college. Or did I misinterpret?

 

Personally I found this to be an interesting economic decision--not one that I have encountered before.

 

I'm taking her at her word...that she cannot pay for all 4 years.

 

She talks about accounts funded from the kids' birthday and PFD money...if she makes that distinction, there must be a reason.

Edited November 22, 2015 by unsinkable

[Jane in NC]

I'm taking her at her word...that she cannot pay for all 4 years.

 

She talks about accounts funded from the kids' birthday PFD money...if she makes that distinction, there must be a reason.

Excuse my ignorance. What is "PFD"?

 

ETA: I too am taking her at her word. In my world, most people make economic choices. People choose to have a boat or a vacation. Or maybe they choose between eating a meal out or going to the movies. I don't know too many people who can afford everything. All of us establish economic priorities regularly.

 

College was a priority for us which is why I saved for my son's college education starting with money given to us at his birth. I fully grasp that college is neither a priority nor economic reality for everyone.

 

But I did find the home down payment over college to be an interesting priority. That was how I viewed her statement. I was not doubting her veracity or questioning her economic choices. Just noting that this was a very different priority from my perspective.

Edited November 22, 2015 by Jane in NC

[unsinkable]

Excuse my ignorance. What is "PFD"?

 

I'm assuming it's an acronym for the money Alaska residents get.

 

I Don't feel like googling.

[Jane in NC]

I'm assuming it's an acronym for the money Alaska residents get.

 

I Don't feel like googling.

 

Thank you.  I did google after you clued me in.

 

PFD in my world means "personal flotation device"!