(irritating) Passport getting woes. My bad for being alternative.

[Joanne]

We are going (hopefully?) on an educational international tour in April. I applied (me and my son) for a passport in September. In the mail yesterday, I got letters for each of us.

 

Mine is not being issued because my NJ birth certificate (issued I guess when my parents requested one in 1983 when I was going to travel internationally) was not sufficient. It did not have enough information.

 

My son's because although my name, his Dad's name, our cities and dates of birth are ALL listed, as well as all other stuff, it does say "homebirth." The passport office feels this is insufficient and wants records that show him at that address. We moved when he was 4, he did not have vaccines until later (we were already in Texas) and did not attend school. I can't find his baptism records.

 

His SS card was issued at that address, though. Why isn't the bc in combination with the ss card sufficient? Seriously?

 

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

What a pain. 

 

 

[Chris in VA]

Ugh. Gov't documents are a RPIA.

 

Can you check with the church that baptised him? They probably have a record.

 

I'm concerned that my grandbaby won't be allowed to go to Russia to meet her relatives, b/c my son and dil are no-vax. BUT, not my problem, really. Sorry your situation is so inconvenient.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Ugh. Gov't documents are a RPIA.

 

Can you check with the church that baptised him? They probably have a record.

 

I'm concerned that my grandbaby won't be allowed to go to Russia to meet her relatives, b/c my son and dil are no-vax. BUT, not my problem, really. Sorry your situation is so inconvenient.

 

Is that a requirement for obtaining a visa?  I've never been asked that information. 

[Pink and Green Mom]

We are going (hopefully?) on an educational international tour in April. I applied (me and my son) for a passport in September. In the mail yesterday, I got letters for each of us.

 

Mine is not being issued because my NJ birth certificate (issued I guess when my parents requested one in 1983 when I was going to travel internationally) was not sufficient. It did not have enough information.

 

My son's because although my name, his Dad's name, our cities and dates of birth are ALL listed, as well as all other stuff, it does say "homebirth." The passport office feels this is insufficient and wants records that show him at that address. We moved when he was 4, he did not have vaccines until later (we were already in Texas) and did not attend school. I can't find his baptism records.

 

His SS card was issued at that address, though. Why isn't the bc in combination with the ss card sufficient? Seriously?

 

I hear you.  We did ours same day in person in Miami and the "unusual person" behind the counter kept insisting we were not my kids "real" parents because they were adopted.  Meanwhile, some other family got a passport for their newborn (as in, days old)- the only proof they had of her birth was a facebook announcement to friends saying she was born.  Unreal.

 

ETA:  my husband had the same problem with his NJ birth certificate as well when we were doing our adoption paperwork.  He had to apply for a new one.  I believe it only took a week or so to be sent out of state from Trenton.

[DawnM]

We had a huge issue with my son's passport last summer.  We literally got it a few days before he traveled and it cost us a lot of extra to get expedited birth certificates and expedited passports, that was after the passport office assured us the first birth certificate was fine.  Six weeks later, we got a letter saying it was NOT sufficient and then we frantically had to order a new one from Los Angeles County......you know that tiny county that has all sorts of time and very few people to process....... :glare:

 

At least you do have a little time to work on this.   But I have no idea how you can prove where he lived.  But I assume he has a county issued birth certificate????  Why isn't that sufficient?

[Miss Tick]

We submitted applications for my three dc who have all had them before and I got two if the passports in the mail together 10 days ago, no sign yet of number three... I am suppressing the huge sigh and slightly-sick feeling until we pass the 6-week mark mid-November. Argh, the bureaucracy.

[maize]

Is that a requirement for obtaining a visa? I've never been asked that information.

Depends on the country.

[Lanny]

(1) In your case, I suggest that you contact the appropriate agency in NJ and ask if they have a more complete form available.

 

(2) Your son's case is much more complicated.  The best thing going for him is that Social Security issued an SS number to him.

 

Question: Did the State Dept. specify what additional documentation they need for your son, so they can issue a Passport to him? 

 

(If not, possibly make a photocopy of his SS card and attach that to the letter you write to them)

 

GL

[milovany]

BTDT with the homebirth passport issue, Joanne!!  It was a pain in the behind for a week or so.  We were flagged because the homebirth birth certificate looked different from a hospital issued one, but it still had all the required elements (parents' names, city of birth, raised state certification seal on the back, signed by birth registrar, ID number, etc.). They asked me for proof we lived at the old address when we did, too.  I said "Really? A hand written rent receipt or utilities bill works better for you than a certified state-issued birth certificate?"  It was aggravating.  I talked to our district legislator, to the birth registrar at the state office, etc. and they all agreed, it shouldn't be an issue but they couldn't do anything. 

 

I called and talked to the same person more than once. She asked for the additional documentation again and I said, "I provided all that to get the birth certificate 16 years ago" (which I did, they required a lot for the home birth).  I pointed out (again!) that the birth certificate I submitted followed the very protocol listed on their own website, reading through the list of requirements.  I think I finally just wore her down (calmly and kindly) and when I said our trip was in two weeks, she said, "Oh, alright.  Hold on a second.  [Moves away from phone.]  Okay, it'll be in the mail on Monday." 

 

I hope yours gets resolved quickly, too. 

 

 

[Valley Girl]

I don't know why the documents you have aren't enough. Perhaps the church where your son was baptized could provide a copy of the baptismal certificate. Or, if he didn't get vaccines as an infant, could his pediatrician still verify that he was seen and that the address you need is the one on file? Hope you get it all sorted out quickly.

[maize]

I've carried an international vaccination card my whole life, but only a few countries check and then usually only for yellow fever. Most childhood vaccines aren't required for international travel ( just strongly recommended).

 

http://www.worldtraveltips.co/yellowcard.html

[Lanny]

<snip>

 

Mine is not being issued because my NJ birth certificate (issued I guess when my parents requested one in 1983 when I was going to travel internationally) was not sufficient. It did not have enough information.

 

<Snip>

 

 

Question: Was a U.S. Passport issued for you, after your parents got that NJ Birth Certificate in 1983?  If you have been issued a U.S. Passport before, that should be evidence that you are a U.S. Citizen and help with getting a new U.S. Passport. Do you still have that old passport?

[PrincessMommy]

We are going (hopefully?) on an educational international tour in April. I applied (me and my son) for a passport in September. In the mail yesterday, I got letters for each of us.

 

Mine is not being issued because my NJ birth certificate (issued I guess when my parents requested one in 1983 when I was going to travel internationally) was not sufficient. It did not have enough information.

 

My son's because although my name, his Dad's name, our cities and dates of birth are ALL listed, as well as all other stuff, it does say "homebirth." The passport office feels this is insufficient and wants records that show him at that address. We moved when he was 4, he did not have vaccines until later (we were already in Texas) and did not attend school. I can't find his baptism records.

 

His SS card was issued at that address, though. Why isn't the bc in combination with the ss card sufficient? Seriously?

 

Did you have to state that it was a homebirth?  All 5 of my homebirth kids have not had a problem getting a passport.  We only put the city/state where the birth took place  and sent it along with the birth cert.   I never said anything about a homebirth on any of the applications.  Otherwise, I don't understand why it wasn't sufficient either.  I would call them and find out.  I'm assuming you had to go in person for your son?  Maybe make another appt. with them and ask about it.

[milovany]

Did you have to state that it was a homebirth?  All 5 of my homebirth kids have not had a problem getting a passport.  We only put the city/state where the birth took place  and sent it along with the birth cert.   I never said anything about a homebirth on any of the applications.  Otherwise, I don't understand why it wasn't sufficient either.  I would call them and find out.  I'm assuming you had to go in person for your son?  Maybe make another appt. with them and ask about it.

 

The birth certificates in our state say "homebirth" right on them.  There's no hiding the fact.  Not sure about Joanne's location. 

[Spryte]

What a pain. Can you contact your congressperson' office to see if they can help? I know they will help with expediting them sometimes. Or, they did pre-9/11.

[katilac]

If the baptismal records will fix the problem, the church should be able to provide copies. 

[ThisIsTheDay]

Contacting your congressman is a good idea.

 

Why is it that I can approve client Medicaid coverage by clicking ONE button which gets a Federal confirmation of citizenship, but the U.S. Passport office can't seem to do something similar.

 

One more passport woe--although my kid's name was spelled accurately on the state ID used to get her passport, the passport office misspelled her name. The state then had to REISSUE kid's ID with the incorrect spelling, acknowledging verbally that it was wrong but that they were required to do so because of her new ID.  So now we have to file with the passport office, sending more information to prove they got it wrong in the first place, with the exact same information they used already.  And we'll probably have to provide more verification on top of that.

 

The federal government is a hopeless mess, will only get worse, and will likely be the death of our country.

[Lanny]

I believe the fact that the Social Security Administration issued a Social Security number to your son indicates that agency considers him to be either a U.S. Citizen  or a Legal Permanent Resident of the United States.  Do you have the evidence you furnished to the Social Security Administration to get his Social Security number?  I believe that is the best evidence you have.

 

Do you have witnesses to the Home Birth who can provide Notarized statements to the U.S. State Department?

 

The issue here is that you need to prove that he was in fact born in the United States.

 

This issue may haunt him in the future, if he tries to join the U.S. Military, if he applies for a Security Clearance, etc., so I hope you can get this resolved for him.  

 

GL

[KungFuPanda]

Crikey!  DS has a New Jersey birth certificate.  What's wrong with it?

[Joanne]

Crikey! DS has a New Jersey birth certificate. What's wrong with it?

His is "new enough" to not be a problem. Earlier NJ birth certificates did not have sufficient info.

[Pink and Green Mom]

Crikey!  DS has a New Jersey birth certificate.  What's wrong with it?

 

For my husband, he only had a raised seal copy of a "short form" birth registration (as opposed to birth certificate) which just listed his name, parents names, date of birth, and hospital.  It wasn't the long form one that has more info on it (time of birth, address of parents, in those days occupation of parents, race, time, attending doctor, etc).  It was easy enough to get a raised seal copy a few years ago.  He was born in Morristown for what it's worth.

[AHASRADA]

We just applied for a renewal. The clerk would not accept the about to expire passport as the photo id document and tried to reject it as evidence of citizenship, saying the birth certificate was needed. 45 minutes to closing, and no line, so I pulled up the state dept website and showed her that the current passport was acceptable for both requirements. She insisted on photocopying the driver's license, including the copy with the application, and told us to expect the application to be rejected due to no birth cert., but she processed it. I have no idea if she did not understand her training or if the state dept website is not up to date, as she had no work instructions available to consult.

It all depends if you are renewing an adult passport or a child's. Adults do not need a copy of their birth certificate, as the expiring passport is sufficient (although that may not be the case if it has been expired too long. )

 

For a child, the birth certificate is required for every renewal. Both parents have to give permission for the child's passport to be issued, and they need to compare the photo IDs of the parents to the parents' names on the birth certificate.

[KungFuPanda]

Can we have a moment of silence for every mom who ever pulled out their kid's birth certificate only to realize that it's the decorative hospital copy and not the official certificate?

 

um . . . . a FRIEND did this.

[Guest]

In the case of you, Joanne, I do know (from experience) that many birth certificates issued years ago are not the correct form. I had to get a new certified copy of mine because it did not have the Seal (state dept if records? Or something) on it. My SIL was detained at port customs before going on a cruise for this same reason.

 

Also, I had to obtain from Vital Records all my family's birth certificates over again in 2005 because, as best I can figure, upon returning from a family vacation, I threw them in the trash with all the brochure stuff, Disney maps, vacation rental papers, etc. Ooooooops. Like, really.

[Joanne]

I don't know why the documents you have aren't enough. Perhaps the church where your son was baptized could provide a copy of the baptismal certificate. Or, if he didn't get vaccines as an infant, could his pediatrician still verify that he was seen and that the address you need is the one on file? Hope you get it all sorted out quickly.

 

The church we attended at the time are looking into it and "will advise."

 

I have called the doctor's offices. I didn't do well baby checks (since I didn't immunize until we moved to Texas) but I do know he saw a doctor a few times. The records are nearly 17 years old and it is slow going.

 

[Joanne]

For my husband, he only had a raised seal copy of a "short form" birth registration (as opposed to birth certificate) which just listed his name, parents names, date of birth, and hospital.  It wasn't the long form one that has more info on it (time of birth, address of parents, in those days occupation of parents, race, time, attending doctor, etc).  It was easy enough to get a raised seal copy a few years ago.  He was born in Morristown for what it's worth.

 

I was born in Morristown. :)

 

Mine was even shorter! It had just my name and date, not even my parent's! It was what I have used since I was 17 - over 30 years ago.

 

I called NJ today and the new one I ordered "should" have all needed data.

[Joanne]

I believe the fact that the Social Security Administration issued a Social Security number to your son indicates that agency considers him to be either a U.S. Citizen  or a Legal Permanent Resident of the United States.  Do you have the evidence you furnished to the Social Security Administration to get his Social Security number?  I believe that is the best evidence you have.

 

Do you have witnesses to the Home Birth who can provide Notarized statements to the U.S. State Department?

 

The issue here is that you need to prove that he was in fact born in the United States.

 

This issue may haunt him in the future, if he tries to join the U.S. Military, if he applies for a Security Clearance, etc., so I hope you can get this resolved for him.  

 

GL

 

On the bold, it was the midwife (who is now I guess not "enough" of a professional to be believed on the birth) who filed the forms for the SS. It is very frustrating because it was not a "hospital" birth certificate, and it was issued later, not at his birth. But it has all the info - him, me, his dad, place, and official seal.

I have asked persons (with the exception on his father ;)) to provide notarized letters regarding the birth.

[Joanne]

Question: Was a U.S. Passport issued for you, after your parents got that NJ Birth Certificate in 1983?  If you have been issued a U.S. Passport before, that should be evidence that you are a U.S. Citizen and help with getting a new U.S. Passport. Do you still have that old passport?

 

Yes, I had a passport issued in 1983 that I used to travel to England. It had expired, and I haven't had it in years and years.

[Barb_]

Can we have a moment of silence for every mom who ever pulled out their kid's birth certificate only to realize that it's the decorative hospital copy and not the official certificate?

 

um . . . . a FRIEND did this.

Lol!

 

I pulled out my youngest daughter's birth certificate to enroll her in a virtual school and found out that she is actually my SON. I was going to have to pay out of pocket to have a pediatrician certify that she was indeed female until I had the bright idea to track down my midwife's original filing document. As I suspected, it was a typo on the part of the birth registrar, not my midwife.

[Word Nerd]

What a PITA! Was yours just not a certified copy? I know I had to order one from with a raised seal because the copy Mom had in her records wasn't official enough.

[Lanny]

I'm so sorry! I finally was able to get a valid passport and I am NEVER letting it expire! I was born overseas, and bless my mom, she had filed a "Consular Report of Birth" which we found just a few years ago in a pile of Navy paperwork. My mom's passport was MIA, and as I entered the US on it, it was a hassle. The State Department managed to lose THREE civilian passports for dd and she had to deploy on her military one. That's a big no-no in the Gulf. Such a hassle. 

 

 

You are a "Natural Born" citizen of the United States. You were born a U.S. Citizen, although you were born overseas. Should you decide to run, you are eligible to be President of the United States.

 

We took DD to the U.S.  Embassy in Bogota,, to get her CRBA and U.S. Passport, when she was 3 months old.

[Lanny]

Yes, I had a passport issued in 1983 that I used to travel to England. It had expired, and I haven't had it in years and years.

 

 

If you had that old Passport, it would make getting a new one much easier. Hopefully the new birth certificate you get from NJ will be better than the one you have.  (I am assuming that you indicated that you had been issued a U.S. Passport, many years ago, but that you do not have the number or the date of  issuance)

 

If the Midwife had a license from the State of Texas, that would make her more of a "professional" in the eyes of the people looking at the papers you have submitted for your son's passport application. Proving that he was baptized on a certain time and date and in a certain place will not prove to them that he was born in Texas. His  citizenship is in question and it is great that you know this and can work toward resolving it for him.

[Joanne]

Lol!

 

I pulled out my youngest daughter's birth certificate to enroll her in a virtual school and found out that she is actually my SON. I was going to have to pay out of pocket to have a pediatrician certify that she was indeed female until I had the bright idea to track down my midwife's original filing document. As I suspected, it was a typo on the part of the birth registrar, not my midwife.

 

The same son recently got his permit. We didn't see, until getting home from the tedious afternoon at the DMV, that he was listed as female. This, in spite of him being there in all his 6 foot 3 inch masculine personhood, and all his supporting documentation that state - male.

 

We had to go back to the DMV (who DID accept his inadequate BC) and get him a sex change.

 

[Joanne]

What a PITA! Was yours just not a certified copy? I know I had to order one from with a raised seal because the copy Mom had in her records wasn't official enough.

 

It had a raised seal, and was certified. It seems that the issue in earlier NJ birth certificates is a known issue.

[Joanne]

If you had that old Passport, it would make getting a new one much easier. Hopefully the new birth certificate you get from NJ will be better than the one you have.  (I am assuming that you indicated that you had been issued a U.S. Passport, many years ago, but that you do not have the number or the date of  issuance)

 

If the Midwife had a license from the State of Texas, that would make her more of a "professional" in the eyes of the people looking at the papers you have submitted for your son's passport application. Proving that he was baptized on a certain time and date and in a certain place will not prove to them that he was born in Texas. His  citizenship is in question and it is great that you know this and can work toward resolving it for him.

 

I will include that reminder when I send my new, hopefully adequate, birth certificate.

[Lanny]

I will include that reminder when I send my new, hopefully adequate, birth certificate.

 

 

Give them as much information as you can about when and where that U.S. Passport was issued (eg. U.S. Passport Office, New Orleans) the approximate date it was applied for and issued and the approximate dates of your trip to England. Hopefully they can find it (via your SS number) in their computerized data base, if their data base goes back that far).  

[Lanny]

I googled and found this web page at State.GOV that may be helpful to you. Notice that at the bottom is shows that a Social Security card is not considered for Secondary evidence. However, I wonder if the fact that the Applicant has an SS number can get the Passport people to look up their information with Social Security and I.R.S. and if so I think that might help your son.

 

I believe it is a blessing that you ran into this issue now, and not when he is older and it might prevent him from applying for the Military, for a Security Clearance, for a job with the U.S. Government, etc. He will benefit all of his life if you can get the evidence needed to show that he was born in the U.S.A. to the satisfaction of the U.S. Passport Office.

 

http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/passports/information/secondary-evidence.html

[goldberry]

I have the short NJ one.  :glare:

 

I was going to renew, but just this July was 5 years since my old passport expired, and the information I'm seeing says I have to reapply.  Very annoyed now, since I will have to request a new NJ one.  Good to know ahead of time though!

 

We already had trouble with DD's birth certificate, because it was county issued and not state issued (Texas).  We had to request a state issued one.

[Barb_]

The same son recently got his permit. We didn't see, until getting home from the tedious afternoon at the DMV, that he was listed as female. This, in spite of him being there in all his 6 foot 3 inch masculine personhood, and all his supporting documentation that state - male.

 

We had to go back to the DMV (who DID accept his inadequate BC) and get him a sex change.

:D I hope they didn't make him prove it.

[cjzimmer1]

Can we have a moment of silence for every mom who ever pulled out their kid's birth certificate only to realize that it's the decorative hospital copy and not the official certificate?

 

um . . . . a FRIEND did this.

 

Well if it makes you feel any better, I went 15 years without ever have a birth certificate for any of my kids.  I never had anyone ask for it and I didn't want to fork out $26 for a piece of paper I never needed.  So when DS took his first AP exam he had to have photo ID.  Of course he doesn't have a school ID so my next choice was a driver's license, which he also didn't have because he had just turned 15.  Next option, government issued ID which needed a birth certificate, so I had to go get one for him to get the photo Id to take a test.  Okay a lot of running around but not the end of the world.

 

The funny part of the story.  DH switched jobs (we had five kids at the time), filled out a simple piece of paper and put them on the insurance.  Baby number 6 is born and the company is insistent that DH needs to bring an office copy of birth certificate (with the raised seal) into the office of new baby can't be put on insurance.  I complained because I've never had to use a birth certificate to put a kid on insurance (and we've had lots of practice by now) and I didn't want to pay the $26 plus the running around in the middle of winter with a brand new baby to get one.  I questioned why I had to have one now but not when we put the first 5 kids on the insurance.  HR informed me the only way the other 5 could have been put on insurance was if DH had brought their certified birth certificates in when he started.  I was like nope didn't happen who don't even have those.  HR said I must have forgotten, no I now without a shadow of a doubt that I don't own those documents so there is no way DH brought them to you.  DH and HR went round and round about it because there is no documentation that says we have to produce a birth certificate to add a new child.  HR finally put DS on insurance and we still don't have birth certificates for any child but eldest. 

 

I didn't realize people actually got those for their children.  I just assumed every waited till they needed it as adult like I did.

[umsami]

It's good that you're doing this so far in advance.  When we apply for passports, it's always last minute...so we never have time for issues.

 

I hope it's resolved quickly. :)

[KungFuPanda]

The same son recently got his permit. We didn't see, until getting home from the tedious afternoon at the DMV, that he was listed as female. This, in spite of him being there in all his 6 foot 3 inch masculine personhood, and all his supporting documentation that state - male.

 

We had to go back to the DMV (who DID accept his inadequate BC) and get him a sex change.

The long wait times make sense once you know they're performing surgery back there.

[Word Nerd]

It's good that you're doing this so far in advance.  When we apply for passports, it's always last minute...so we never have time for issues.

 

 

I was glad I applied earlier than necessary, as my passport application was delayed because of a government shutdown.

[Renthead Mommy]

Wow, the NJ part of this is interesting.  I wonder if my ex bf ever had problems.  His birth certificate had even less on it than what Joanne has said.  Born in 1970, and adopted at days old, his birth certificate didn't have his name on it.  Said something like "Live born boy".  I can't remember if it named his adoptive parents on there or not.  But it did not name him or his birth parents, and that was his actual birth certificate.  It was what he used for school and when starting jobs. 

 

 

 

 

Mine is not being issued because my NJ birth certificate (issued I guess when my parents requested one in 1983 when I was going to travel internationally) was not sufficient. It did not have enough information.

 

 

 

[AHASRADA]

 

 

I didn't realize people actually got those for their children. I just assumed every waited till they needed it as adult like I did.

Funny, I can't imagine anyone not having a copy of their birth certificate in their files at all times.

 

I grew up within an hour of the Canadian border, so it was very common for families to take day or weekend trips, and of course a birth certificate was necessary to cross the border (now requirements are more stringent) .

 

Dh grew up overseas and his parents and extended family still live there. We visit every 2-3 years. All of my dc have had passports since they were a few months old. As discussed upthread, birth certificates are required to apply for a passport, obviously.

 

I guess I never thought about when or why a birth certificate might be needed, it was just one of those things that was always on hand so we'd have it if necessary. In fact, we were given an order form in the hospital after each child was born, and we always ordered at least one copy right away, along with their SS#. BTW, they only cost $10.

[Kessepha]

If you have filed the correct paperwork and been denied for a homebirth, just call your state rep ASAP.  I had trouble with my youngest's passport because he is adopted from South Korea.  We submitted the technically correct paperwork but it wasn't what they wanted.  Turns out what they wanted was the sealed adoption decree from his US adoption (Korean adoptions at the time were finalized in the US, the decree was sealed as if it were a domestic adoption.... no point in that, but they did it anyway).  I called my state rep and had a passport in the mail by the end of the week. :)

 

Good luck to you!

Tara

[HS Mom in NC]

Just so it's clear, the state of AZ issues identical birth certificates to homebirth, birth center and hospital births. It asks for the name of the hospital or the address of the homebirth in the same box.  I suspect Joanne is dealing with an idiot government employee. 

 

Times I dealt with idiot government employees were:

 

The immigration office employee where we had to process all of our information for ourselves and our soon to be adopted international adopted child could not seem to grasp the idea that I changed my name at marriage from Firstname Middlename Maidenname to Firstname Maidenname Husband'sLastname. He was completely stumped.  Nothing going on upstairs. So I handed him my driver's license with Firstname Maidenname Husband'sLastname and said, "This is my married name.  And idiot government employee said, and I'm quoting exactly, "So you want this married name in our computer to match your married name on your license."  Then I said with a note of horror in my voice, "Are you suggesting there's another option?" To which idiot said, "Huh?"  So I said in my mommy is very displeased voice, "Yes.  I want you to put my married name in your computer just like it is on my driver's license because that IS my legal name now that I'm married."  Then he looked confused and had to get a supervisor to tell him exactly what I told him. Scary.

Once internationally adopted child had arrived and was supposed to get on the docket for National Adoption Day, we had to send in a pile of documents to the County Attorney's office for a preliminary meeting so they could make sure everything was in order before the big day. The adoption agency called us and explained that an idiot government employee called them and insisted that our original marriage license wasn't good enough.  We had to get another copy of it signed by the county clerk's office or he couldn't put us on the docket.  The agency explained to him that there was no reason at all for that and that no adoptive parent has ever had to do that before and the process hadn't changed.  Barney Fife insisted.  So the agency told us to do it even though it was stupid and unnecessary because if we didn't, we'd have to wait 3 to 4 months for a private adoption finalization hearing.  We had 24 hours before the meeting with the County Attorney's office.  So my husband went to downtown PHX and got it.  Anyone want to guess what the Country Attorney's office said when we handed it to them?  If you guessed something along the lines of, "Why did you get a second copy?  Your original is all you needed." you're definitely smarter than most government employees.

Then when early voting came along here you had to bring several forms of ID to vote.  I got mine and went to the voting site and had to deal with yet another idiot (temporary) government employee.  She claimed my VOTER ID CARD was not one of the valid forms of ID for voting.  So I said nice and loud, so everyone around me could hear, "You're telling me my voter ID card isn't a valid form of ID for voting even though this list you have here lists it as a valid form of ID." She finally acknowledged that yes, it was valid. 

Without getting into a political philosophy discussion and keeping it to just a practical discussion, have the people who advocate government run healthcare not had to deal with idiot government employees before whose ignorance can significantly impact your life?  Have they not heard the phrase, "You can't fight city hall."?

My middle daughter's ukulele teacher was born in a Japanese prison camp in AZ during WWII.  Her birth certificate states the name of the temporary town created in and around the prison camp that disappeared when the war ended.  I can see that raising an eyebrow because that town was temporary and not on many maps, but a government issued birth certificate should carry its own weight.  What good is it if it doesn't? How can one government agency not accept official documentation from another agency? The government of Korea accepted my oldest daughter's birth certificate for our youngest daughter's international adoption.

[cjzimmer1]

Funny, I can't imagine anyone not having a copy of their birth certificate in their files at all times.

 

I grew up within an hour of the Canadian border, so it was very common for families to take day or weekend trips, and of course a birth certificate was necessary to cross the border (now requirements are more stringent) .

 

Dh grew up overseas and his parents and extended family still live there. We visit every 2-3 years. All of my dc have had passports since they were a few months old. As discussed upthread, birth certificates are required to apply for a passport, obviously.

 

I guess I never thought about when or why a birth certificate might be needed, it was just one of those things that was always on hand so we'd have it if necessary. In fact, we were given an order form in the hospital after each child was born, and we always ordered at least one copy right away, along with their SS#. BTW, they only cost $10.

 

I guess since neither my parents, myself, my husband or my kids have ever been out of the country, the whole passport thing is a bit foreign to me.  And since I had never been asked to produce them for my kids other than getting an ID, I couldn't really see the value of spending the money for them.  But if you travel, then I guess I could see why people would have them.

 

The cost must vary from state to state because it most definitely is $26 here and not $10.

[maize]

Yep, the cost of birth certificates varies by state. I have kids born in three different states and all of them charge more than ten dollars. I usually get at least two copies when I order them. CA makes me get the order form notarized, that extra step somehow makes the whole process seem a lot harder!