Vent...is this common..PS related

[Tanaqui]

You bet. My kid doesn't miss school without good cause. It is called being a responsible parent.

 

Irresponsible people are the root of the problem with tough attendance policies. Making a dental cleaning after school starts (instead of the weeks and months before) is not excusable. Then to "vent" about it? Absurd!

 

Bill

 

Do you have any intention of responding to the counter argument?

[Spy Car]

So it's ok to miss for a root canal or filling but not for preventative care? What's that they say? Something about an ounce of prevention and a pound of cure? Better a meticulously regular cleaning than needing a third crown before your permanent teeth are 2 years erupted.

 

A root canal is ordinarily an emergency procedure, yes? Not something one can plan on in advance. Emergencies happen.

 

Planning to miss school for a routine cleaning? That is bad planning or complete lack of caring.

 

Get the teeth cleaning before school starts, not the week after. Simple.

 

Bill

Edited September 3, 2015 by Susan Wise Bauer
Bill, I'm pretty sure you can express yourself without rudeness.

[Spy Car]

Do you have any intention of responding to the counter argument?

 

What counter argument?

 

Bill

[EmseB]

Ah, it is the irresponsible parents who are taking their kids out of school for regular dental cleanings. This all makes sense now, we are simply in alternate universes.

[Spy Car]

The policy is wholly restrictive and punitive.  The teachers and administrators are not wardens of the children.  If a parent wants to take the child out of school for the day, that is the parent's prerogative and the wishes and needs of the teachers and administrators are 100% irrelevant to that.  They are not the parent and have no right to supersede the parent's authority.  I call bullshit on the school.  Big heaping, steaming semi loads of bullshit.

 

Wardens? Really???

 

Teacher and administrators have a responsibility to students too. There are laws on the books requiring attendance for students enrolled in schools.

 

Pulling children out of school after a long summer break when a teeth cleaning could easily have been scheduled is irresponsible parenting.

 

I call BS on the parent.

 

Bill

[Spy Car]

Ah, it is the irresponsible parents who are taking their kids out of school for regular dental cleanings. This all makes sense now, we are simply in alternate universes.

 

Yeah, a responsible parent takes care of that before school resumes for summer, not after. It really is that simple.

 

Bill

[Tanaqui]

What counter argument?

 

Bill

 

The one that everybody on this thread has given to you multiple times, namely that 1. there are not an infinite number of appointment slots during summer vacation (which is not equally long for all people, btw) b. there are even fewer appointment slots during the short winter break - especially as many dentists go on vacation during that time as well 3. not all people have access to a dentist that is available on weekends or after school and 4. if you are required by your insurance to schedule appointments exactly 6 months apart, your window of scheduling is very narrow indeed.

 

Those are the biggies, anyway. People have responded to you with these points many times, and you have simply repeated yourself, as though everybody on this thread is so stupid that we didn't understand you the first time.

 

Again, I say, we understand you just fine. We simply do not agree.

[myfunnybunch]

The point is not really a parent's responsibility or lack thereof when it comes to timing of appointments. Clearly, there's a difference of opinion in that regard.

 

The point is the school deciding when and even whether parents can choose take their children out of school for a medical or dental appointment, even for a routine one. It's not the school's purview to decide whether parents are being responsible or whether the choice and schedule of the family's care providers are reasonable.

 

And whoa! What a privilege it is to debate prioritizing education versus routine medical care. I feel super fortunate right now. (Especially since I don't have to choose. Every single time I schedule an orthodontist or dentist appointment, the scheduler says how glad she is that we homeschool and can come for mid-morning appointments because it is, in their words, "impossible" to schedule those before and after school times.)

[Tanaqui]

Yeah, a responsible parent takes care of that before school resumes for summer, not after. It really is that simple.

 

Bill

 

When you say this, it sounds to me like you think that the posters on this forum are irresponsible and do not care about the education of their children.

[KungFuPanda]

Linders, I think I can agree with some of what you are saying, except the part about the dental appt. His dentist is an hour away. It sounds like they are not open on the weekends and definitely not open after school hours (common here in the South, unfortunately; the North is so much better about these things). So a dental appointment JUST for this one child is three hours minimum (hour travel, hour there, hour back); it is longer if an emergency comes in at the same time or just before him (could stretch to four or five hours). That is most of the school day. Add in that siblings are taken in together (cost of gas, only once or twice a year and then done); this IS an all day event. What would YOUR solution be? (I ask out of curiousity, to be helpful to the OP, and to point out that the culture of availability is different in different parts of the States)

You'd think in a place where you have to drive an hour to see a dentist, they'd be used to this scenario. In the ops place, I'd schedule appts on those days that students have off, but aren't real holidays (in-service days, spring break, etc), or deal with the fallout. I don't know what else she could do.

[LucyStoner]

A root canal is ordinarily an emergency procedure, yes? Not something one can plan on in advance. Emergencies happen.

 

Planning to miss school for a routine cleaning? That is bad planning or complete lack of caring.

 

Please don't make dumb arguments. Get the teeth cleaning before school starts, not the week after. Simple.

 

Bill

Uh, no. It took nearly one month to get my nephews root canal scheduled. He's waited several months for other needed work, and that's with me getting him in to see my dentist OOP for some things we just couldn't see him wait for any longer.

 

You have had a half a dozen people give you a list of reasons why your simple solution is not so simple in their actual, every day lives. Most of these reasons don't match my day to day reality but I can see that they are real and valid even if it's not my own particular bubble.

 

My "dumb argument" is an actual child with an actual limited set of available care. My examples are from real life, unfolding now. If you think them either simple or cloying, you can rest assured that in years of being a homeless child myself and paying attention to the world past my own nose, I can pull up any number of other examples of missing school for minor medical and dental situations complicated by factors like transportation and money and housing.

 

Your argument is obtuse to the point that I am not sure I should even be taking you seriously. I mean come on Bill. Surely you are smart enough to realize that people do not all live affluent SoCal lives. Hellz, there's more kids in LAUSD who are closer to my nephew's financial strictures than to your son's relative affluence. You know that. And if you don't, maybe you need to pop your own bubble once in awhile.

[KungFuPanda]

INfact her cheer coach is fighting for the girls to have the option to wear their cheer uniforms to school (skirt doesn't meet dress code) on game days. It is a pristine white skirt, and dd is one of the girls helping to petition for it. Dealing with it is just a part of our lives.

 

.

When I was in school, we wore our uniform tops with jeans on game days. It was an easy way to generate game-day hype without breaking dress code. I was under the impression that only TV cheerleaders ever actually wore their skirts in school.

[Spy Car]

When you say this, it sounds to me like you think that the posters on this forum are irresponsible and do not care about the education of their children.

I think some people on this forum look for any opportunity to bash schools (or compare them to prisons) when in fact it is the "venting" parent who is in the wrong here. Parents like the are the root cause of the crackdowns schools have made around attendance policies.

 

Bill

[Tanaqui]

I think some people on this forum look for any opportunity to bash schools (or compare them to prisons) when in fact it is the "venting" parent who is in the wrong here. Parents like the are the root cause of the crackdowns schools have made around attendance policies.

 

Bill

 

You have asserted that she is in the wrong, but as you've yet to address any of the counterarguments against your universal simple solution, we have certainly not established any such thing.

[KungFuPanda]

For routine teeth cleanings? Bullroar!

 

Bill

I'm willing to bet this same school let's kids miss class for a pep rally. A routine cleaning seems at least as valid.

[KungFuPanda]

A root canal is ordinarily an emergency procedure, yes? Not something one can plan on in advance. Emergencies happen.

 

Planning to miss school for a routine cleaning? That is bad planning or complete lack of caring.

 

Please don't make dumb arguments. Get the teeth cleaning before school starts, not the week after. Simple.

 

Bill

I'm not sure you are understanding that there are more patients who WANT non-school-hour appointments than there are convenient appointments to be had. You may pull it off one or two years, but every year, twice a year, with multiple children? In an area they may not have enough dentists to meet local need? I'm thinking in some areas it would be mathematically impossible if you have a kid in braces. Family slots are much trickier to schedule than single appointments.

[mommaduck]

Spycar has everything available to him, therefore the rest of the world must also. *eyeroll*

[SKL]

Ack, that sounds horrible and ridiculous.  My kids go to a Lutheran school, but I don't think our local public schools are like that.  I am sure they have some arbitrary rules, but that is ridiculous.

 

Whose kids are they anyway?  The attitude that you can't take your own kid somewhere always ticks me off.

 

I can understand not wanting parents to disrupt kids' classes to drop stuff off, but can't it be left at the office for them?  And who cares how it is packaged?

 

Not letting kids eat is a big no-no for me.  I prefer the policy where they will give a simple sandwich (with or without an IOU) rather than let a kid starve.  When I was a kid, they gave credit.  My kids' school does as well.  Not allowing the kid to pay with cash is just dumb.  Maybe he should have gone to the office with the money before lunch, but there should have been some way to make it happen.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

A root canal is ordinarily an emergency procedure, yes? Not something one can plan on in advance. Emergencies happen.

 

Planning to miss school for a routine cleaning? That is bad planning or complete lack of caring.

 

Please don't make dumb arguments. Get the teeth cleaning before school starts, not the week after. Simple.

 

Bill

I usually agree with you SpyCar, but I have to disagree here. My kid's school day runs till 4 pm and the latest dental appointment for cleanings are 3 pm so once a school year I have to take my kid out of school early about 1pm or 2pm depending on appointment time for travel time and it is unavoidable. 

 

ETA I forgot to add we pretty much love our school:) I agree that there some policies against truancy are needed. In fact, where we live, many students routinely miss 25 or more days and are tardy much, much more simply due to truancy and yet the school system barely enforces there very lax laws here. Then, on the other hand, the school system decides to enforce their laws in a  nonsensical by not allowing a piano prodigy to perform in Germany because she will have to miss a week or two of school. :svengo:  Needless to say she is now homeschooling.

 

In general, I think truancy laws need to be fair and not too heavy handed. Yes, I get it that there are folks who abuse the system, but folks who need their kids to be absent for doctor and dental appointments, illness, and fantastic opportunities should not be punished because of folks who abuse the system.

[Haiku]

My oldest dd was in school from the end of 6th grade through graduation from high school. Like the OP, we routinely encountered ridiculous, inflexible policies that probably sounded completely reasonable to the people who wrote them and were thinking mainly of crowd control but that were absolutely asinine when instituted on an individual basis. Add to that teachers and administrators who believe they have unchecked power to meddle in the lives of students (to the point of attempting to dictate to us when our daughter, who had an IEP for Otherwise Health Impaired, should be permitted to schedule doctor appointments, as detailed in my post entitled I Hate Schools), and you have a real cluster-f*ck.

 

I always intended to homeschool my youngers all the way through. Having my oldest in school cemented that intention beyond a doubt.

[whitestavern]

I know there are many who do, but I can't think of many friends who work a M-F 9-5 job any more.

 

I don't know anyone who works these kinds of hours either...dh and most everyone we know work from 7:30-6ish M-F. There is no way he would be able to get to an appointment if he didn't leave during the day. He's never had anyone give him a hard time for it, thank goodness!

[SparklyUnicorn]

So it's ok to miss for a root canal or filling but not for preventative care? What's that they say? Something about an ounce of prevention and a pound of cure? Better a meticulously regular cleaning than needing a third crown before your permanent teeth are 2 years erupted.

 

Here the schools require a dental exam along with the regular physical requirements.  Don't know if that includes a cleaning, but I suspect so because I've never just brought my kids to have their teeth only looked at.

 

I do think the cleanings help because my kids, like many kids, aren't so great at brushing their teeth.

[Word Nerd]

Getting way off topic, but I've never lived anywhere in which 9-5 was the typical M-F work schedule. It's usually 8-5 with an hour off for lunch.

[SparklyUnicorn]

A root canal is ordinarily an emergency procedure, yes? Not something one can plan on in advance. Emergencies happen.

 

Planning to miss school for a routine cleaning? That is bad planning or complete lack of caring.

 

Please don't make dumb arguments. Get the teeth cleaning before school starts, not the week after. Simple.

 

Bill

 

I encounter a lot of people who rag on homeschooling.  You know what I do?  I ignore it.  I don't insert myself into their pointless rants.  If this doesn't pertain to you, why do you come in here to call someone a liar?

[HomeAgain]

There is one dentist here that still accepts our insurance, the same insurance that 3500 other people use in our town (and since it is mostly a transient community, that number goes up to 10000 total over the course of a year, just 3500 at a time).  There were two, the other one put his notice in during July.

 

The next nearest is a 45m-1h drive away.

 

Physicals are slightly easier to schedule, but until July this year we had 1-2 doctors at our clinic (that serves about 3500 at a time).  There are supposed to be 4, but one had a death in the family, one was going through a transition period, one was being sent to a different location temporarily.  Trying to get what my husband needed after surgery was a pain in the rear end!  His files went through three different doctors before getting scheduled meds.  The clinic closes at 4pm (except once a week when they close at noon to train), my son gets out of school at 3:56pm.  His yearly physical (which can't be done on school physical day because it's not for school, but for scouts), is done during the school year because it has to be done before summer. Can't do it during their reduced hours over winter break (they only get Christmas week and New Year's week, and half of that is taken up by holiday hours), those appointments are reserved for immediate needs taken care of by the doctor on call.  Doctors take vacation, too. :)

 

I am lucky that we have a school that understands he will need at least three absences a year: physical, dental, and one for paperwork of various sorts.  His test center now does 5pm slots (YES!) but at his age and our current situation, there will be times he will have to miss to take care of things.  It's why I keep a copy of his schedule.  I try to time appts during his 'fluff' classes, like art or study hall.

 

Course, our schools treat their teachers the same way, allowing them to miss time but come back if they're able.  Having a no-return policy makes me wonder what kind of duress the teachers are under.  If students are badly treated, it stems to think the staff will be as well.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I think the particular difficulty is trying to coordinate all of these appointments when one has 6 kids.  You can't schedule 6 kids in the 4:30 slot.  And I don't blame someone for not wanting to go back there 6 times. 

 

 

[Mom-ninja.]

You are rationalizing pulling a student out of class for an entire day to get his teeth cleaned. It is exactly these sorts of rationalizations that have forced schools to get tough.

 

You are in the wrong here.

 

Bill

 

Your opinion that she is wrong is subjective. You are not always in the right just because of your opinion. 

 

 

The one that everybody on this thread has given to you multiple times, namely that 1. there are not an infinite number of appointment slots during summer vacation (which is not equally long for all people, btw) b. there are even fewer appointment slots during the short winter break - especially as many dentists go on vacation during that time as well 3. not all people have access to a dentist that is available on weekends or after school and 4. if you are required by your insurance to schedule appointments exactly 6 months apart, your window of scheduling is very narrow indeed.

 

Those are the biggies, anyway. People have responded to you with these points many times, and you have simply repeated yourself, as though everybody on this thread is so stupid that we didn't understand you the first time.

 

Again, I say, we understand you just fine. We simply do not agree.

But why address the counter arguments when one finds the solution to be so very very SIMPLE?   Clearly the parents not scheduling life the way he does are perhaps not intelligent enough to understand his point. I believe his point is that parents who do not have access to his circumstances nor do things the way he does are irresponsible parents.   

[Bluegoat]

Your opinion that she is wrong is subjective. You are not always in the right just because of your opinion. 

 

 

But why address the counter arguments when one finds the solution to be so very very SIMPLE?   Clearly the parents not scheduling life the way he does are perhaps not intelligent enough to understand his point. I believe his point is that parents who do not have access to his circumstances nor do things the way he does are irresponsible parents.   

 

I think the answer is actually that he has a time/space machine, so no matter what, he is able to get the appointment he wants. 

[Mom-ninja.]

Or maybe the dentist has a time turner and so can see all his patients after school hours and during vacation, but still have his/her time off 

[kahlanne]

I cannot believe the response that this thread has received.  I honestly was venting while wondering if this was common. We didn't have the issue with rules such as this in middle school. They are very strict on uniform violations but otherwise pretty easy going. You still have only 5 unexcused absences a year but you can check in and out freely with a parent, they want a time stamp but don't push back if it doesn't match their idea of when you should return, and allow you a small negative balance with school lunch before cut off.

 

I understand the school lunch thing and wasn't angry that my son missed a meal but confused as to why he couldn't pay in line with cash like last year. Someone here pointed out the problems with in line paying and I understand. It was just aggravating and surprising but totally my fault. For the record, they started a new online payment program this year and it takes 24 hrs for payments to be applied with a small service fee on the payments. I think it was $2. Regardless, I will make sure his balance stays positive from now on. However someone said one meal missed won't hurt him, you could be wrong. My son eats breakfast at 6:20 at home, arrives at school at 6:40, and even though school ends at 2:30, he has football after until 6:00.  We have a new coach that is working their butts off at practice which I approve of btw. My son returns home famished on the days he did eat lunch and soaking wet with sweat. It is close to 100 degrees outside most days and while they are given plenty of water,  not eating for 8 hours followed by min of 3 hours hard workouts outside in the heat could possibly hurt you. Again, my fault and I know the remedy so I will keep it from happening again. 

 

As for the girl changing clothing, she was mortified. She was even more embarrassed when her mom came to the school. I don't know her cycle history but I believe this was not expected at all. Again, I am not sure if she was regular or not but I can't help but think that it shouldn't matter. She was back at the school in 15 min. with the office knowing why she left. As for carrying a change of clothing, that can happen in your backpack but it has to be a school approved uniform not sweatpants. I know in elementary the schools have extra in the office to borrow in case of accidents which happen regularly but for highschool, they don't and the sizing varies so much it would be difficult imo. While we could afford an extra uniform if needed, it is an unjustifiable expense imo besides the fact that it is just another thing to stuff in an already overstuffed bag. The thing that I find strange is the other rules stress the need for the student to be in school making it extremely difficult if they are not yet the no check-ins rule limit that possibility unless you have an excuse. If it is so important that you have to micromanage my timing for excused absences, shouldn't you allow a child to check in regardless of the reason they are late?

[Valley Girl]

Yeah, a responsible parent takes care of that before school resumes for summer, not after. It really is that simple.

 

Bill

 

No, it's not always that simple. Twice yearly cleanings DON'T mean one in June and the other in August. Many other posters have told you time and again that they have attempted to schedule outside of school hours that but insurance requirements, dentist/doctor availability, limited afterschool hours on the part of professionals, sudden cancellation of appointments by the dentists/doctors, and a host of other factors outside their direct control often make that difficult.

 

Most of us DO try to schedule around school so as not to impact the oh-so-critical attendance of our children. But it's not as magically simple as you imply. That you continue to insist it is in the face of so many contrary experiences is quite puzzling.

 

I wonder...my son is leaving school early today for an eye doctor appointment. At his physical in June (scheduled for when school was out), he failed his vision test. The pediatric eye doctor could not offer us an appointment until September. I called every week during the summer to see if they had a cancellation. They did not. I took the last appointment of the day. It's still during school hours. I suppose I could have waited until Christmas break to have him seen. However, allowing him to go without glasses that long WOULD have been irresponsible. Taking him out of school to get the problem checked is not. Same thing for routine care and appointments with other specialists. I do my best to schedule appointments that don't interfere with school. I'm also competing with dozens of other families for those same appointments. That's just reality.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Whenever I read these things, I'm always glad I wasn't in public school when it was like that. I wouldn't have had a good GPA and a load of AP's and gotten into a good college... instead, I would have ended up a dropout. No kidding. I always had absences. We didn't have health insurance so getting a doctor's note? My mother would have laughed in my face. I was bussed across county so the bus itself used to drop us off late enough that I would have apparently been marked absent for the whole day and not allowed into class sometimes. I would not have been a kid to put up with walking around with a giant bloodstain on my rear either. I would RATHER have been pulled into court for walking away from school. So it's good that I didn't have any of that to rebel against... my whole life would probably have come out pretty differently.

I hear you. I missed 40 days freshman year at a prep school with no doctor excuses just because I begged my mom to let me stay home. Just mom excuses. And I still got straight A's at a rigorous prep school no less. The only consequence was I had to go to detention one day after school. I am pretty sure the public school were pretty similar back them because I also went public for the first 6 years of schooling without perfect attendance.

 

OTOH I can see why the city where we live has some truancy laws because there are so many dropouts and kids who cannot read or do math. However, I still think they should have some discretion in applying the rules especially in the case where a student is mastering the material despite absences.

[LucyStoner]

Here the schools require a dental exam along with the regular physical requirements. Don't know if that includes a cleaning, but I suspect so because I've never just brought my kids to have their teeth only looked at.

 

I do think the cleanings help because my kids, like many kids, aren't so great at brushing their teeth.

Honestly, with the dental problems so many poor kids face (up to and including dental related deaths), I can see why some schools would resort to asking for proof of dental exams. Probably affects more kids than all those scoliosis screens we had to do as children. :)

[LucyStoner]

Or maybe the dentist has a time turner and so can see all his patients after school hours and during vacation, but still have his/her time off

That's it!

[FaithManor]

Yeah, a responsible parent takes care of that before school resumes for summer, not after. It really is that simple.

 

Bill

So you are advocating for one cleaning per year for school age children. You are further advocating for no cleanings per year for children on state medical insurance who have to travel long distances to practitioners who accept state med - it is 55 miles one way to the nearest dentist who does and since the pay outs are low, he only offers appointments to such patients one day per week which means most of them cannot get a summer appointment and due to insurance rules check ups and cleanings must be six months and one day apart. This is the norm for the poor in our area. Long travel, extraordinarily limited number of practitioners.

 

Well at least we now understand your position.

[FaithManor]

No, it's not always that simple. Twice yearly cleanings DON'T mean one in June and the other in August. Many other posters have told you time and again that they have attempted to schedule outside of school hours that but insurance requirements, dentist/doctor availability, limited afterschool hours on the part of professionals, sudden cancellation of appointments by the dentists/doctors, and a host of other factors outside their direct control often make that difficult.

 

Most of us DO try to schedule around school so as not to impact the oh-so-critical attendance of our children. But it's not as magically simple as you imply. That you continue to insist it is in the face of so many contrary experiences is quite puzzling.

 

I wonder...my son is leaving school early today for an eye doctor appointment. At his physical in June (scheduled for when school was out), he failed his vision test. The pediatric eye doctor could not offer us an appointment until September. I called every week during the summer to see if they had a cancellation. They did not. I took the last appointment of the day. It's still during school hours. I suppose I could have waited until Christmas break to have him seen. However, allowing him to go without glasses that long WOULD have been irresponsible. Taking him out of school to get the problem checked is not. Same thing for routine care and appointments with other specialists. I do my best to schedule appointments that don't interfere with school. I'm also competing with dozens of other families for those same appointments. That's just reality.

AMEN!!!

[Haiku]

We once had to visit a specialist in another city, and the appoint my was scheduled six months out due to availability. When it came time for the appointment, it happened to fall during "count week" for the schools in our state. I had to call the state office for schools to get them to make the school excuse my daughter for this critical and long-ago-scheduled appointment because the school was going to count her unexcused. And they specifically scheduled tests that week to ensure students would be in school, so she would have failed those tests. It was completely ridiculous.

[MBM]

Our school allows students to miss 10% of the 180 days. We have kids who miss many more. One was touring Europe a good chunk of last year, playing in concerts with people like Yo Yo Ma. My son's girlfriend's brother had regular jazz gigs in Chicago and NYC since his freshman year. The school worked with him so that he could come in late because he had many late nights. Three of the bands will be touring Italy and playing this spring. They also went to Australia for three weeks two years ago. The chess team went to nationals for a week. Some kids are acting for periods of time. One was a finalist in American Idol and missed a lot of school, eventually was graduated at mid-term and went to act full time.. Some do modeling assignments. Students are also permitted to go on --- gasp! --- vacations with families as long as they get teachers to sign permission slips at least a week beforehand. The list goes on and on.

 

Grief over a tooth cleaning? Utterly ridiculous. I would be looking up the laws.

 

ETA: The average ACT is over 28 which all juniors have to take as a requirement of Illinois law. This is a public school of 1,000+ students per class. Just throwing that out there to show that students seem to be learning something.

 

[*lifeoftheparty*]

I encounter a lot of people who rag on homeschooling. You know what I do? I ignore it. I don't insert myself into their pointless rants. If this doesn't pertain to you, why do you come in here to call someone a liar?

Exactly!! And why in the world is someone who is clearly on the public school police task force on a homeschooling forum anyways!!

 

If I thought it was my job to tell everyone what to do with their children, and how they must educate them, I would work for the board of education, and not be wasting my time talking to a bunch of homeschoolers- unless I just wanted a daily dose of trying to feel superior to everyone else.

 

Seriously. Join the freaking PTA already.

 

It is none of your business what I do with my children, or when, or why- period. The. End.

[LucyStoner]

Truancy isn't caused by routine dental and health checkups. Persistent truancy, with kids missing 20-30 days of school or more in the absense of serious health factors is tied heavily to families in poverty or crisis. It may be that mom or dad isn't there is get them on the bus on time. Or a child is making excuses to avoid school because of worry. It may be that an older child finds they have to watch their younger siblings or care for an elderly relative. It might be that a teen is cutting school due to a need to work or a perceived total lack of relevancy of school to their lives. There may be psychological, substance abuse or DV issues in the home. Addressing those sorts of barriers to attendance is hard work, costs money and can be heartbreaking and futile. Addressing those issues doesn't come from draconian attendance policies or treating a parent who takes a kid out of school for the dentist or a funeral or a short travel/educational opportunity like rebrobates.

 

Like many, I recieved a fine education from a school that had an open campus policy and didn't wig out if a teen had to miss a class. In fact, they frequently generated educational activities that would mean we had to miss class. I am a product of the best that my local public school system could offer and the educational outcomes for that school tended to be exceptional. There are other, better ways to address truancy than saying that as few as 3-6 absences means failing and/or court. These are schools. And children. I'd rather see carrots than sticks used. Policies are not a substitute for human kindness. I've also not seen any evidence that very draconian policies improve the long term educational outcomes for the average student.

 

ETA- I didn't start homeschooling for ideological reasons. I am a product of public schooling and my pre-parenting ideology was heavily tilted in favor of schools. I homescholed after the schools had utterly failed my son before he even hit age 7. I'm certainly not out to slam public schools when they do good work. I am also not out to excuse them when they do poorly. Policies like "lunch has to be in a lunch box and not a grocery sack" are absurd and pointless. They discourage kids and families from being happy with their schools, for no reason.

[kahlanne]

Since I am wordy, I wanted to address the other issue in its own post. My IRRESPONSIBILITY as a parent. Yes, I am so irresponsible as a parent that I am the reason for hard stances on truancy. The fact that my son misses one excused absence that shouldn't take a day according to Bill and the school makes me irresponsible and unworthy of venting, being aggravated, and deserving of a harsh rule set by the school. Never mind that I schedule both the routine doctor and one of the dentist appts in the summer. Ignore the fact that my son doesn't have an abundance of sick days, unexcused or excused, per year. And the only reason I bring up grades is due to my son's ability to pick up on things easily and therefore a day missed shouldn't hurt him. Oh that is right, I am making excuses to justify my irresponsibility. Let me point out that I did state  that I was surprised by this rule when his excuse was challenged last year and will try to schedule it better this year.  I have done this every year and it wasn't until entering high school that it was challenged. The only excuse I had challenged before in middle school was him being absent for 2 or 3 days when we returned from a funeral. (My memory is foggy on exact dates.)  The funeral home stated the time of the funeral and the principal questioned me when I returned it. I explained it was my dad's funeral, out of state, and I was the closest relative and had to make all the arrangements there. Small town that doesn't do online/phone choosing of casket, clothing, cancelling bank accounts, etc. The principal said he understood and was sorry for my loss. If we are going to hand out demerits for irresponsibility, give me another one for that.

 

Bill, I understand you put an importance on school. We all do, yes, even I. If I didn't, I would let my child skip school on the days that he just doesn't feel like going, has a headache, or sniffles. I wouldn't schedule the one yearly doctor appointment in the summer or one of the two dentist appoint in summer. For the record, insurance won't allow a day sooner than 6 mo for second appt and many times I like so many others here have had appts pushed back even when they have been on the books for months. The summer appointment got pushed back to the day before school started. Stuff like this happens.

 

Thing is the school wants to manage my time on excused absences but I they can chose to devote partial to full days for things like pep rallies and fun day. Yes our school has a fun day each year devoted to games. The highschoolers that chose to participate pay to create a team and  the ones without a team pay to watch.  Games such as volleyball are played and attendance is taken that day just like any other. If you can't afford to pay, you are allowed to sit in an assigned classroom to read, work on schoolwork, etc. Oh and there is another day which devotes a large portion of its time to Special Olympics. A worthy cause but during this time my son isn't learning academically. I believe it is half a day. They used to do it on the weekend but turn out/participation from students was poor so they moved it to a school day. If you chose not to participate, you can sit in a classroom and read or work on schoolwork but not a regular class. Personally I don't have a problem with these extras the school offers, unless they require money which is a different topic, but I think it is ridiculous for them to punish me/my child for a single routine excused dentist appt during school hours because it didn't fit in the time frame they desired. 

 

I don't believe the school has a high truancy problem. Regardless, shouldn't they "go after" the ones that are abusing the system the most and the kids that are being harmed by missing classes?  No, they will make a blanket statement/rule without choosing to make common sense allowances because they can and most good RESPONSIBLE parents will try their best to meet these rules while hanging their head and venting elsewhere at any reprimanding they receive while the true irresponsible people will say screw you and let their kids skip until it is taken to court.

 

So Bill, sorry you think I am irresponsible. I will try to live up to your standards but I fear I may fall short because ultimately I like living my life on the edge. The thrill I get from taking six kids to a dentist appointment that takes a full day is too thrilling to pass up.  Bless my Heart...y'all pray for me. 

 

Now I am out because I think I have said enough.

 

 

Edited to add...the cheer team is allowed to miss almost a  week to travel to Disney and participate in competition. From the photos I have seen on instagram and fb, much of the time is spent having fun riding the rides due to long gaps between competition times.  Oh and both of my kids were chosen to spend a day at a local university after testing highest in district for geometry and algebra. They were to take an hour test while at the university but afterwards were free to stay and explore the college or go home. The school provided a bus to and from the test but if you were going to do more you had to make own transportation. They were excused for a full day regardless. Both things I support but I think it clearly shows a double standard.

[ErinE]

I think some people on this forum look for any opportunity to bash schools (or compare them to prisons) when in fact it is the "venting" parent who is in the wrong here. Parents like the are the root cause of the crackdowns schools have made around attendance policies.

 

Bill

When making appointments, I can spend several minutes trying to find a time that fits our schedule. All those free days you mention? They are full, completely, by the time I was in the office. Why? Because every other public school parent who walks in has the same intent: scheduling appointments during those times.

 

I am very strict about getting my kids teeth cleaned every six months. The OP may have started out scheduling summers and winter, but as time goes by, times get filled and June/December ends up July/February then September/April. Every urban or suburban dentist I've used is quickly booked at six months out.

 

When I volunteered in the front office of a public school, kids weren't racking up absences because "irresponsible" parents were taking them to medical or dental appointments. They were absent because parents didn't care, not about school, health, or teeth. Draconian rules punish responsible parents and students, while indifferent parents? They STILL don't care.

[vonfirmath]

People need 2 cleanings a year.  They both can not be squeezed into 6-12 days in June  (school lets out around mid to late June here) and  maybe 6 days in December for the vast majority of patients ages 5-18. 

 

 

When did this change? We only got one a year growing up?

[Matryoshka]

When did this change? We only got one a year growing up?

Didn't change. I'm 50 yrs old and always had 2 cleanings a year since early childhood.

[LucyStoner]

When did this change? We only got one a year growing up?

I remember my mom getting an earful from the dental clinic because I was only coming in once a year at most. So, at least around here, it changed before 1988. ;). My dental insurance has always covered 2 cleanings a year. My sons have always gone 2x a year and I'm not going to change that as it seems to be working well for their overall dental health.

[Katy]

 

 

 

When did this change? We only got one a year growing up?

 

 

It didn't change.  Teeth cleanings are twice a year.

[bolt.]

i consider dental cleanings a nice day to spend some time with my kids. I always enjoyed them when I was a kid. I often don't send them to school for part of the day (before or after) because it isn't convenient or worth it to me: especially if the child is moderately uncomfortable, or has to wait to eat, or something.

 

I don't think I'm irresponsible. I'm just choosing to balance school attendance with the rest of life. Probably it matters more at older grades, but I'm a good parent and I have good students, and I don't mind brushing off school for fairly minor reasons. I'm glad my kids' school isn't interested in pressing the issue.

 

Aside from dental appointments, I just can't imagine why a student arriving late or leaving a class (with good manners) is considered terribly disruptive. What are the classes doing? Silent meditation? Kids slipping in and out isn't an earthquake. It's a bit of shoe-shuffle noise, a backpack flump, and some pages turning. All a teacher needs to do is make eye contact and nod silently as they carry on.

[ksr5377]

When making appointments, I can spend several minutes trying to find a time that fits our schedule. All those free days you mention? They are full, completely, by the time I was in the office. Why? Because every other public school parent who walks in has the same intent: scheduling appointments during those times.

 

I am very strict about getting my kids teeth cleaned every six months. The OP may have started out scheduling summers and winter, but as time goes by, times get filled and June/December ends up July/February then September/April. Every urban or suburban dentist I've used is quickly booked at six months out.

 

When I volunteered in the front office of a public school, kids weren't racking up absences because "irresponsible" parents were taking them to medical or dental appointments. They were absent because parents didn't care, not about school, health, or teeth. Draconian rules punish responsible parents and students, while indifferent parents? They STILL don't care.

 

 

Just this.  I can't imagine dealing with those rules.

 

 So basically during your senior year of high school, not even your PARENTS can let you miss school, and then the next year at college no one pays attention to if you show up for class or not. 

[Bluegoat]

 

 

 

When did this change? We only got one a year growing up?

 

 

I think this depends a bit where you were - I can remember them changing the recommendation here when i was still a child - before that kids only got two a year if they had problems with their teeth.

 

I've never fully satisfied myself that this is really something that everyone needs or its just better for dentists.

[Bluegoat]

Just this.  I can't imagine dealing with those rules.

 

 So basically during your senior year of high school, not even your PARENTS can let you miss school, and then the next year at college no one pays attention to if you show up for class or not. 

 

Not only that, you can't leave the building to go somewhere and buy lunch, or change your clothes, or anything else.

 

It becomes more and more clear to me why university kids are having problems with anxiety.