The "Matthew Effect": Is 3rd Grade Make it or Break it?

[8filltheheart]

I doubt it. Seems pretty dramatic.

Unfortunately in ps it is not just an idea, it is treated as fact. Last yr I had a conversation with a 6th grade ps teacher who "informed" me that children not reading at grade level by the end of 3rd grade were incapable of becoming high performing students later on. When I shared that our graduating sr could not read on grade level until the end of 4th/beginning of 5th and that even then his reading was painfully slow, but he was graduating as an advanced honors student functioning significantly beyond his peers across the board, her response was that I must be exaggerating either his success or his disability bc it was not possible. :( she was completely close-minded to the idea that perhaps the system created the effect and its long-lasting outcomes.

[wintermom]

 

 

Some kids might "catch up" sooner. Some might never "catch up." Truly, I dislike even using that phrase because it implies there's some hierarchy or standard to achieve instead of letting kids be who they are. Catch up to what? I feel like the phrase cajoles us to view kids as being "not quite enough," and that's such an unfair burden to put on a child.

 

I think the biggest thing you do is rest. I don't mean quit teaching (far from it, continue pursuing meeting his needs, encouraging him, providing needed accommodations, pursuing therapies as needed and so on). But what I do mean is rest from comparing. Rest from worrying. Rest from feeling like he has to be something he's not--and just let him be who he is now. He's a little boy who loves some things and hates others, who probably excels at doing some things even while he struggles with reading/writing/spelling. Don't miss enjoying him and encouraging his passions, don't let struggles strangle out the joy of these years with him. Rest. 

 

 

:iagree:   Very well put.  More people of all ages need to remember this - about their children and about themselves. This is one of the reasons so many people have self-esteem issues, I believe. 

[J&JMom]

I pulled my youngest out of public school at the end of second grade.  He was special ed student, and I was getting the impression, based on his ARD (individual special ed) goals, that they didn't expect him to 'catch up', but rather perpetuate his 2 year lag into 3rd grade. I found this unacceptable, therefore, I took things into my own hands.  I still don't know if the  standards for my son were intentionally set low because of true expectation (despite an average IQ), or to make themselves look good when he hit the low reaching targets.  All I know is that he is now reading at grade level (based on age cohort) after two years at home!  He is still behind in writing and is starting to slip in math, but I am hopeful I can meet him where he is and get him where he needs to be over time.  I refuse to write my kid off!

And it irked me to no end when he still made "A" and "B"s in school when he was so behind his peers' benchmarks. It was like the second grade for him was simply second year at school as opposed to having mastered second-grade skill sets, becasue of the ease at which they advanced him to third despite the deficits. So I repeated 2nd grade at home and moved him to 3rd when he was ready. Rinse and repeat.

[Ausmumof3]

Unfortunately in ps it is not just an idea, it is treated as fact. Last yr I had a conversation with a 6th grade ps teacher who "informed" me that children not reading at grade level by the end of 3rd grade were incapable of becoming high performing students later on. When I shared that our graduating sr could not read on grade level until the end of 4th/beginning of 5th and that even then his reading was painfully slow, but he was graduating as an advanced honors student functioning significantly beyond his peers across the board, her response was that I must be exaggerating either his success or his disability bc it was not possible. :( she was completely close-minded to the idea that perhaps the system created the effect and its long-lasting outcomes.

That is an inspiring story about your son, though very disappointing that she couldn't see or accept it.

[TheAttachedMama]

I think the biggest thing you do is rest. I don't mean quit teaching (far from it, continue pursuing meeting his needs, encouraging him, providing needed accommodations, pursuing therapies as needed and so on). But what I do mean is rest from comparing. Rest from worrying. Rest from feeling like he has to be something he's not--and just let him be who he is now. He's a little boy who loves some things and hates others, who probably excels at doing some things even while he struggles with reading/writing/spelling. Don't miss enjoying him and encouraging his passions, don't let struggles strangle out the joy of these years with him. Rest.

 

Thank you for saying that.....and please keep on saying that to me and remind me to rest.   I am not naturally a "restful" person.   I am a planner and a previous engineer.   I am a fixer....and a worrier.   Man, oh man....no one can worry as much as me.  I try NOT to be that way, but that is my natural tendency in life.   I think God has blessed me with this wonderful little boy in an attempt to teach me how to rest and rely on him.   I am a slow learner sometimes, but I am really trying.  

 

So keep reminding me about that. 

 

P.S.  My son is also REALLY into pokemon.  And it drives me batty too.   ;) 

[FO4UR]

Thank you for saying that.....and please keep on saying that to me and remind me to rest.   I am not naturally a "restful" person.   I am a planner and a previous engineer.   I am a fixer....and a worrier.   Man, oh man....no one can worry as much as me.  I try NOT to be that way, but that is my natural tendency in life.   I think God has blessed me with this wonderful little boy in an attempt to teach me how to rest and rely on him.   I am a slow learner sometimes, but I am really trying.  

 

So keep reminding me about that. 

 

P.S.  My son is also REALLY into pokemon.  And it drives me batty too.   ;)

 

 

I am nodding in vigorous agreement about the rest.  And, I think part of that state of rest - for us - was cutting (pencil/paper) schoolwork back dramatically to enable him to focus on gaining reading fluency. We increased the life-giving, inspiring and internally motivated things like art/music/building stuff with legos and wood/nature while decreasing grammar, spelling and anything on a worksheet. We maintained copywork, daily copywork.

 

 

I'm sure there might be some nay-sayers who call what I did slacking off, but it was purposeful pulling back...and it was one of the best decisions I've made in homeschooling.  In fact, I wish I would have started off keeping things to reading lessons and copywork until he was fluent.  He may have reached that point sooner.  He definitely would have reached fluency without so much angst about it.

 

Worry, angst, and frustration are road blocks on the path to reading.  Eliminate those things ruthlessly.  (And, in a short while you can pick those things back up...when he's reading everything in sight.)

[frogger]

I was diagnosed with dyslexia in third grade. My step-mom met with my school. She had practice at dealing with schools because my little brother had Down Syndrome and she was accustomed to advocating for her children. I was taken out just for English Class to a resource classroom with a fantastic teacher who really cared and by sixth grade I was in a regular class. In seventh grade I was taken out during science for the "Elevated Learning Program" for gifted kids. My high school had a scholarship program for the student most likely to succeed. All the teachers voted on whom received it and I won it. Would they have voted for me in third grade? I guess not if they read that article.

 

My mom has the same tendencies and managed college and med school. My brother always struggled and dropped out of school at 16 but he runs an entire cannery at $140,000 last I heard but that was like 5-8 years ago so I'm sure it's increased.

 

 

All this to say don't listen to prophetic articles especially ones that can prove to be self-fulfilling. Those who learn later might catch up or do things different although having one that is still struggling to learn to read I completely understand feeling panic about it at times.

[frogger]

I had to laugh at Penelope's additional link about people making the most they will make at 40. If my income tops at 40 I'm in trouble since my last job was in my early twenties and has been $0 for quite some time.

[G5052]

Unfortunately in ps it is not just an idea, it is treated as fact. Last yr I had a conversation with a 6th grade ps teacher who "informed" me that children not reading at grade level by the end of 3rd grade were incapable of becoming high performing students later on. When I shared that our graduating sr could not read on grade level until the end of 4th/beginning of 5th and that even then his reading was painfully slow, but he was graduating as an advanced honors student functioning significantly beyond his peers across the board, her response was that I must be exaggerating either his success or his disability bc it was not possible. :( she was completely close-minded to the idea that perhaps the system created the effect and its long-lasting outcomes.

 

Yes, in these situations, keeping the kid in a school where they're labelled could be a disaster.  At home, you have the time and resources to do all you can for them. In a classroom, they don't. 

 

One of mine didn't read until the end of 3rd grade and was highly distractible until about then. If we hadn't homeschooled, I'm sure that he would have been labelled. I've had local teachers tell me that.

 

His dad was the same way and only avoided being labelled because his mother worked with him every day after school. She ultimately convinced them that he just needed more time and attention, but his grades were horrible in those early years.  She made sure that he didn't even know about that until he was an adult. 

 

A friend of mine homeschooled her four boys who all had significant problems with reading. She had to hire professionals with each one to figure out what they needed to get them reading. She held two of them back and even had them graduate late from high school because the problems spilled over into writing as well. Two are college graduates, one is still in college, and one is starting college this fall. Each was capable once they worked out the problems.

[Bluegoat]

I really think the thing here is just to teach to the child - not having to adhere to the kinds of generalized grade level expectations is one of the main reasons I homeschool - it should be happening in any good school, but unfortunately it doesn't.

 

As many others said - content doesn't have to be in written form.  Listen to things by recording - youtube has a ton of recorded books and so do many libraries.  And use oral composition.  Also make sure to nurture other abilities that schools often ignore, like mechanical ability.  Plug away to develop reading and writing as best you can but don't let that take over your child's life.

 

Some people just never become readers, and that isn't a disaster either.  I heard recently that Jamie Oliver only in the last few years read a book all the way through - one book - his grade school teachers thought he was a lost cause.  He seems to have done pretty well though and has a happy life.

[Storygirl]

Yes, in these situations, keeping the kid in a school where they're labelled could be a disaster.  At home, you have the time and resources to do all you can for them. In a classroom, they don't. 

 

One of mine didn't read until the end of 3rd grade and was highly distractible until about then. If we hadn't homeschooled, I'm sure that he would have been labelled. I've had local teachers tell me that.

 

His dad was the same way and only avoided being labelled because his mother worked with him every day after school. She ultimately convinced them that he just needed more time and attention, but his grades were horrible in those early years.  She made sure that he didn't even know about that until he was an adult. 

 

A friend of mine homeschooled her four boys who all had significant problems with reading. She had to hire professionals with each one to figure out what they needed to get them reading. She held two of them back and even had them graduate late from high school because the problems spilled over into writing as well. Two are college graduates, one is still in college, and one is starting college this fall. Each was capable once they worked out the problems.

 

I have children with learning disabilities. Honestly, I don't find avoiding labels to be a helpful goal. There is nothing wrong with getting an accurate diagnosis. Actually, having the diagnosis can be a big help in figuring out how to help the child succeed, whether they are in school or at home. I know that some people are afraid of having their child given a diagnosis, because they think it will limit what their child is allowed or encouraged to do. I am not going to discount the fact that there are prejudices out there, both in the schools and in the general populace, and that sometimes people dealing with special needs will face that. But understanding how my children's brains work and learning about remediation and accommodation techniques that target those specific needs has been extremely helpful for me while homeschooling.

 

We are enrolling some of our kids in school in the fall, and we are wanting the schools to evaluate and issue IEPs, so that the children can get all of the support and services that they qualify for. I don't see that as a bad thing at all. In fact, we are looking forward to having a team of educators working with us to find the best methods to teach them. It has not been easy figuring it out on my own, and I don't have unlimited time to give each of them the hours of one-on-one remediation that they require, because I have multiple children to educate and many responsibilities in addition to getting the schoolwork done. I've accepted that I need help, and we are turning to the schools. We are not expecting the schools to offer magical solutions, and we may find that we will return to homeschooling at some point in the future.

 

I just wanted to present a different point of view. Yes, I think it can be a problem when children are behind by third grade (I just have two children who just finished third grade), and I think that if problems are not identified and targeted, there is a danger that they might continue to fall farther behind each year. But intervention can make a difference, whether it is done at home or through the school system.

 

Homeschooling in and of itself doesn't always solve these problems. It's the targeted tutoring and intervention (and sometimes additional specialized therapies when needs are great enough) that help children with learning differences succeed. Homeschooling can help, because the child is more likely to get focused one-on-one tutoring from their parent, that's true. Often homeschooling parents are able to educate themselves enough to become the specialized teacher that their child needs. And if a child is just a late bloomer who needs extra time and support but has no actual disability, patient homeschooling can be just what they need to thrive. I totally agree with that. But homeschoolers do not always have "the time and resources to do all that you can for them." Sometimes both time and resources can be very hard to come by.

 

I do, though, think that it is important to know if there is a disability. We shouldn't be afraid to name our child's problem, if they have one -- dyslexia, dysgraphia, dyscalculia, ADHD, autism, etc. -- there is absolutely NO shame in these labels, but knowing what they are can give us the power to help our children become their best selves.

[Arcadia]

I have children with learning disabilities. Honestly, I don't find avoiding labels to be a helpful goal.

...

I do, though, think that it is important to know if there is a disability. We shouldn't be afraid to name our child's problem, if they have one -- dyslexia, dysgraphia, dyscalculia, ADHD, autism, etc. -- there is absolutely NO shame in these labels, but knowing what they are can give us the power to help our children become their best selves.

It is not the medical labels that is an issue. It is the "label" of being a poor reader, bad at math, slow motor skills etc that doesn't get the student help because the child have to be more than failing at grade level to get intervention, while at the same time demoralizing the student because most kids can feel/sense the vibes that people think they are behind/slow.

 

A neighbor's child isn't reading at the end of 1st but the district says after observation by the school psychologist that there is nothing wrong with her child. So the child gets no help since she is neither dyslexic nor ESL. The mom is looking at Sylan now since it's hard not to be reading in 2nd for public school.

 

My oldest had preferential treatment because he was ahead. Teachers and admins are humans and have their bias.

[MerryAtHope]

Thank you for saying that.....and please keep on saying that to me and remind me to rest.   I am not naturally a "restful" person.   I am a planner and a previous engineer.   I am a fixer....and a worrier.   Man, oh man....no one can worry as much as me.  I try NOT to be that way, but that is my natural tendency in life.   I think God has blessed me with this wonderful little boy in an attempt to teach me how to rest and rely on him.   I am a slow learner sometimes, but I am really trying.  

 

So keep reminding me about that. 

 

P.S.  My son is also REALLY into pokemon.  And it drives me batty too.   ;)

 

Ironically, our sermon yesterday was "Worry or Worship," primarily focusing on Psalm 27 (I've always loved that Psalm!). I can be a worrier too. It was such a good reminder that there is "one thing" that is most important. 

 

Anyway...hang in there!

[Storygirl]

It is not the medical labels that is an issue. It is the "label" of being a poor reader, bad at math, slow motor skills etc that doesn't get the student help because the child have to be more than failing at grade level to get intervention, while at the same time demoralizing the student because most kids can feel/sense the vibes that people think they are behind/slow.

 

Yes, I agree that this can happen -- that people can end up judging others. That is tragic, and homeschooling can help in those cases. It's something that I'm cautious about for my own kids as we enter the school system.

 

But I also know that there are people who actually fear having their child labelled "dyslexic" or "ADHD" or other actual diagnoses. Their desire to avoid such labels can keep them from seeking appropriate help. I've seen comments such as these posted in other threads on the boards. My post was addressing that.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Well, fwiw, we have the label and it hasn't helped at all.  I knew the label was there.  (I'm a special ed. teacher.)  I thought there would be more actual suggestions for remediation.  The suggestions given weren't all that helpful to me.  That may well be the fault of this particular neuropsych but I've seen similar comments from many on these boards.  

[Storygirl]

TheAttachedMama, given what you've posted, I think you have valid reason to be concerned about your son's reading. I'm not trying to worry you, but I can see why you are worried.

 

I was worried for years about DD10's trouble with learning to read, and when I brought it up to others my fears were always downplayed. When one day someone who was doing educational testing said, "I think she may have dyslexia," I was actually relieved that someone else finally saw what I saw. Sometimes we just need someone to come alongside us and say that our concerns are founded.

 

It's entirely possible that your son just needs more time and practice with reading skills, and that things will finally click. But if in your heart you are wondering if there is another cause, you might want to think about getting a professional evaluation. The school system is required to evaluate for free, but some people prefer to get full screenings done by a neuropsychologist, because they can diagnose things that the school cannot. DD was just evaluated last week, and we'll find out the results soon.

 

You also might want to post on the Learning Challenges board, or even just read through threads that are already there. There's good advice to be had there, and encouragement, too.

 

:grouphug:  I know it's frustrating and sad when the struggles continue even after so much hard work. But there's hope. Don't give up!

 

 

[MerryAtHope]

Well, fwiw, we have the label and it hasn't helped at all.  I knew the label was there.  (I'm a special ed. teacher.)  I thought there would be more actual suggestions for remediation.  The suggestions given weren't all that helpful to me.  That may well be the fault of this particular neuropsych but I've seen similar comments from many on these boards.  

 

 I hear you on the lack of suggestions & the ones given not being that helpful. That said, it was helpful to go through the actual testing for us because it confirmed one diagnosis I suspected, and ruled out some other things. Sometimes it's helpful to tease out the threads of what's actually going on (since there can be a lot of overlap) so that at least we know what to research and pursue when looking for ways to accommodate and remediate!

[Incognito]

To offer a different perspective, for us testing was very helpful.  It is very variable what one gets out of the experience, and there isn't much chance of knowing what you'll get out of it before you go in.

[Bluegoat]

I think testing and a diagnosis is one of those things that can be such a two sided experience.  If its an accurate diagnosis and it leads to real help and doesn't pigeonhole the child, that is great.  If it is a poor diagnosis, or leads to en educational backwater, or doesn't lead to help, it isn't so great.  And the fact that people have to push for a diagnosis to make help available causes problems too because it leads to people being labeled really just so they can get funds allocated.

[8filltheheart]

Testing can be vitally important for long-term issues that may require lifelong supports. I am incredibly thankful our Aspie has an official diagnosis. It allowed him to qualify for assistance as an adult through the dept of rehab. The stereotype that Aspies only need to find their niche and that they are highly successful professionals does not match our Ds's experience at all. He has a very high IQ, but he has serious executive functioning deficits and shuts down under new or stressful situations. His ability to cope is very limited.

 

I can't see any downside to testing and labels, personally. But that is just our experience.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Testing can be vitally important for long-term issues that may require lifelong supports. I am incredibly thankful our Aspie has an official diagnosis. It allowed him to qualify for assistance as an adult through the dept of rehab. The stereotype that Aspies only need to find their niche and that they are highly successful professionals does not match our Ds's experience at all. He has a very high IQ, but he has serious executive functioning deficits and shuts down under new or stressful situations. His ability to cope is very limited.

 

I can't see any downside to testing and labels, personally. But that is just our experience.

Well, I do agree that this is something good that came out of testing - having that paper that allows for accommodations.  He hasn't needed them yet - he's still at home - so I tend to forget about that.  But we have it and the next thing on my list of stuff to research for him is how to use that paper for college since that is his desire.  

 

For me, it isn't so much that testing was bad.  It was frustrating and financially detrimental because it took money that our family didn't have and didn't give the expected value for the money.  If we had paid a much smaller amount and gotten what we did, I would say it was totally worth it!  

[Storygirl]

I think another component is how having a correct diagnosis can help our children understand themselves, both now as students, and for the remainder of their lives.  I think there is a big difference between thinking of yourself as a poor reader versus knowing that you have dyslexia (for example).

 

 

[Love_to_Read]

The downside of testing for us was that the school was very careful to avoid the word dyslexia.  That was a real obstacle to learning how to remediate properly...feeling like we'd done the testing without getting the answers we needed. Part of it was a 2E issue...not wanting to spend money on a child who was capable of scraping by with fewer accommodations if they left that word out of their conclusion.  But it's the only thing that explains the classic quirks that you can hear in her oral reading and see in her spelling, and even the rote memory issues in math.  I'd have started with Barton instead of AAS as soon as we left the school system, if only I'd known then that it was indeed mild dyslexia. 

[alisoncooks]

Marie Rippel (AAS/AAR) wrote a blog post about this...

 

http://blog.allaboutlearningpress.com/matthew-effect-in-reading/?utm_campaign=Monthly+Newsletter&utm_source=hs_email&utm_medium=email&utm_content=20400864&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-_SVH_uaCjKwR2cuwyeO8REmExEt2KRsvAdCA3lVxcQWfduPvbYRagvm_0WZX8oXt7eqvuAkFl_kdl6UUhLmi6xFwd2ZA&_hsmi=20400864

[TheAttachedMama]

Marie Rippel (AAS/AAR) wrote a blog post about this...

 

http://blog.allaboutlearningpress.com/matthew-effect-in-reading/?utm_campaign=Monthly+Newsletter&utm_source=hs_email&utm_medium=email&utm_content=20400864&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-_SVH_uaCjKwR2cuwyeO8REmExEt2KRsvAdCA3lVxcQWfduPvbYRagvm_0WZX8oXt7eqvuAkFl_kdl6UUhLmi6xFwd2ZA&_hsmi=20400864

 

YES!   I just finished reading that.   :)   It is like she read my mind (or perhaps my forum post!)

 

I am thankful for her experience....but I'm not really sure what the take away is for my particular situation. 

What if I already read aloud to my children nearly every day?  

And what if I already have been using a systematic phonics program since the beginning?   (My sons phonics skills are actually pretty strong compared to most kids his age.  But he is still not reading well.)    

And I use every trick in the book to try to encourage independent reading.   But he would rather scrub a toilet than pick up a book to read, which puts him further behind in his reading practice.

 

I guess I need to find more strategies to strongly encourage independent reading right now.  

 

Right now I have him read aloud to me for 30 minutes per day.   (He turns 9 in late November.)  I also have him read a VERY easy bible story every morning, and a VERY easy picture book to his baby brother.    Is this enough??    Does he also need to be doing silent reading to himself every day?  

[alisoncooks]

Right now I have him read aloud to me for 30 minutes per day.   (He turns 9 in late November.)  I also have him read a VERY easy bible story every morning, and a VERY easy picture book to his baby brother.    Is this enough??    Does he also need to be doing silent reading to himself every day?  

 

I am no expert, but from our experience, my daughter did not make significant reading progress until she started reading to herself.  A lot.  (She was 8.5 when she found a series of books she wanted to read *on her own.*)  After that, her fluency and stamina increased.  We continue with our formal reading work together, but that intro of silent reading really was the big turning point for my child.

[8filltheheart]

YES!   I just finished reading that.   :)   It is like she read my mind (or perhaps my forum post!)

 

I am thankful for her experience....but I'm not really sure what the take away is for my particular situation. 

What if I already read aloud to my children nearly every day?  

And what if I already have been using a systematic phonics program since the beginning?   (My sons phonics skills are actually pretty strong compared to most kids his age.  But he is still not reading well.)    

And I use every trick in the book to try to encourage independent reading.   But he would rather scrub a toilet than pick up a book to read, which puts him further behind in his reading practice.

 

I guess I need to find more strategies to strongly encourage independent reading right now.  

 

Right now I have him read aloud to me for 30 minutes per day.   (He turns 9 in late November.)  I also have him read a VERY easy bible story every morning, and a VERY easy picture book to his baby brother.    Is this enough??    Does he also need to be doing silent reading to himself every day?  

 

My ds didn't turn into a reader until he found a book series that he fell in love with.  For him it was the Mysterious Benedict Society and I think that was the summer between 5th and 6th grade.  (way too long ago to remember exactly.)  After that, he became a bookworm.

 

My oldest ds, also dyslexic, was never a reader while he lived at home.  He is now and constantly reads non-fiction books on micro-brewing and investing.  :)  

[silver]

My son is not dyslexic, but reading aloud was a lot harder than reading silently when he wasn't yet fluent (he didn't mind reading to himself but hated reading aloud for more than 15 minutes at a time). Maybe have him do more reading silently and less reading out loud. Does he read the Bible story book to himself? If so, maybe switch it so that he reads that to you and spends 30 minutes reading to himself?

[Runningmom80]

Unfortunately in ps it is not just an idea, it is treated as fact. Last yr I had a conversation with a 6th grade ps teacher who "informed" me that children not reading at grade level by the end of 3rd grade were incapable of becoming high performing students later on. When I shared that our graduating sr could not read on grade level until the end of 4th/beginning of 5th and that even then his reading was painfully slow, but he was graduating as an advanced honors student functioning significantly beyond his peers across the board, her response was that I must be exaggerating either his success or his disability bc it was not possible. :( she was completely close-minded to the idea that perhaps the system created the effect and its long-lasting outcomes.

 

:cursing: :cursing: :cursing:   Yikes.  That's depressing.

[8filltheheart]

:cursing: :cursing: :cursing:   Yikes.  That's depressing.

 

You have no idea how incredibly thankful I am that my ds never stepped foot inside of a ps.   

[FO4UR]

YES!   I just finished reading that.   :)   It is like she read my mind (or perhaps my forum post!)

 

I am thankful for her experience....but I'm not really sure what the take away is for my particular situation. 

What if I already read aloud to my children nearly every day?  

And what if I already have been using a systematic phonics program since the beginning?   (My sons phonics skills are actually pretty strong compared to most kids his age.  But he is still not reading well.)    

And I use every trick in the book to try to encourage independent reading.   But he would rather scrub a toilet than pick up a book to read, which puts him further behind in his reading practice.

 

I guess I need to find more strategies to strongly encourage independent reading right now.  

 

Right now I have him read aloud to me for 30 minutes per day.   (He turns 9 in late November.)  I also have him read a VERY easy bible story every morning, and a VERY easy picture book to his baby brother.    Is this enough??    Does he also need to be doing silent reading to himself every day?  

 

To the bolded, systematic phonics is perfect for kids who naturally leap from phonics into reading.  For kids who already know phonics and are still not reading, they obviously need something else besides phonics to get them reading.  Dancing Bears   Companions for the Treadwell Readers   These work explicitly on practicing decoding, tracking, applying all that phonics knowledge in context.  My ds12 was at a point at 9yo of knowing all the phonics there is to know, but he wasn't reading.  Dancing Bears Fast Track worked wonders. Treadwell Readers have rich content and a vocabulary that is not phonetically controlled, but begins quite narrow and grows gradually through the series. A child who can read the first story can read the second after learning a few more words, and so on.  It's high success rate practice.

 

 

For independent reading right now, check out an audiobook with the accompanying paperback from the library.  He can follow along with the audio.  It helps greatly.  I would avoid giving him expectations that he cannot meet, like reading silently to himself when he cannot fluently read.  That will only discourage him further.  Maybe something super short (like an Aesop's fable or those 50 Famous Stories) could be handled independently?  Personally, I would wait to require independent reading until he's reading aloud to you easily.  Yes, it's more difficult to read aloud and most kids can read independently at a higher level.  But, most kids also skim over words they don't understand to grab for context.  That's actually a good thing, but only if those words are not understood b/c they are not used everyday...not if it's b/c of a decoding issue.  jmho.

[TheAttachedMama]

Alright, so opinions:

Do you think I should add silent reading to his daily checklist? 

 

If so, how long?

 

For awhile I did have him silently reading through the High Noon Ricky and Boby Mystery set.   They are chapter books, but first grade readability.   (I wanted it to feel easy and not like work.)   He liked those well enough, but I haven't found anything to replace those with.   (He isn't interested in any of the other High Noon books.)   I think the Beast Wars books look good, they are just hard to get in the US.

 

We have a TON of those "I Can Read" level 2 books.  (Arnold Lobel and the like.)   Most of which he has read, but perhaps I could suggest he re-read those?   The Level 3 are books we read together during his daily read aloud time, so they might be a *little* hard for him.   

 

My son is not dyslexic, but reading aloud was a lot harder than reading silently when he wasn't yet fluent (he didn't mind reading to himself but hated reading aloud for more than 15 minutes at a time). Maybe have him do more reading silently and less reading out loud. Does he read the Bible story book to himself? If so, maybe switch it so that he reads that to you and spends 30 minutes reading to himself?

The Bible story I have him read out loud.  (It is from a story book bible and really easy for him.   Except for the names and places.  He has to decode those.)  He does shared reading with his little sister.   They alternate reading pages out loud to their baby brother.  

 

I read online that reading aloud is extremely important for people with dyslexia because it helps them with phrasing....which helps with fluency and comprehension.   The article I read linked to some research that said that reading aloud was the single best thing that helped people with dyslexia.  So that is why I previously had dropped silent reading and switched everything to reading out loud.  

 

I am no expert, but from our experience, my daughter did not make significant reading progress until she started reading to herself.  A lot.  (She was 8.5 when she found a series of books she wanted to read *on her own.*)  After that, her fluency and stamina increased.  We continue with our formal reading work together, but that intro of silent reading really was the big turning point for my child.

 

[Julie Smith]

Since, I think your son is just slightly behind Youngest in reading level, here are the books he has been reading to himself:

Boy vs. Beast by Mac Park

Tiny Titans by Art Baltazar (Graphic novel series)

Ricky Ricotta's Mighty Robot by Dav Pikley

Warrior manga books by Erin Hunter and Dan Jolley. 

 

 

He had been reading outloud to me from more challenging books:

Captain Underpants by Dav Pilkey (We are going to start book 4 soon)

DC Super Heroes books by various authors. (These are the hardest books on the list)

Olympian seres by George O'Connor (Graphic novel series.)

Down Girl and Sit by Lucy Nolan

DC Super Pets by various authors

Dragon Masters by Tracey West. (He read outloud books 1 and 2 to me, but I think he - if he is willing will be able to read the newer book to himself)

[FO4UR]

I would not require independent reading just yet.  He'd rather scrub a toilet?  Um...nope.

 

 

Increase fluency with the reading aloud first.  He will reach a point when he begins to negotiate with you that he can just read everything to himself and doesn't need to read aloud any more.  At that point, allow him to read most things independently and only require 10min a day of reading aloud.  

 

Putting it on the checklist before he can really succeed at it might really discourage him and set him back further on that spiral.

 

 

 

Use audiobooks for more than just listening.  Have him visually follow along in the paperback while listening.  Have him listen to a good book first, a chapter at a time, and then have him read it aloud to you.  Find large print books.

[8filltheheart]

I wouldn't force independent reading. I'm not sure how that is even possible with positive outcomes for the child.

 

The approach I took with my ds is that we alternated between books that were slightly challenging, easy, and more challenging. I intermixed the easy books to boost his confidence.

[Leav97]

School makes this a self fulfilling prophecy.  One of our local 3rd grade teachers had and incoming student who read at a beginning of 1st grade level.  She was told by the principle to not waste her time because he wouldn't past the end of year test.  She "wasted" her lunch time anyway.  He made it to an beginning of 3rd grade level.  The principle stopped by to gloat because she was right, he didn't pass the end of year test.

 

 

[EKS]

To encourage independent reading, I told my son that he was allowed to stay up after his bedtime if he was reading in bed.  I did this a little while after he had begun to read fluently (on a 2nd/3rd grade level), meaning that he was able to read without sounding out every last word.  He really liked that idea and read at bedtime for the next many years.  

[TheAttachedMama]

I wouldn't force independent reading. I'm not sure how that is even possible with positive outcomes for the child.

 

The approach I took with my ds is that we alternated between books that were slightly challenging, easy, and more challenging. I intermixed the easy books to boost his confidence.

 

Thanks.   I am trying that approach right now with his read aloud time.   I use a lot of the Sonlight readers, and noticed that this is how they have them scheduled.   We don't follow their schedule exactly, but they do have a lot of great book picks.   I just add in more books because he needs a lot of practice at these levels.  

 

I think there is something to that method of alternating different leveled readers!   It reminds me of how one might train for a 5k race.   (Some days you sprint short distances, other days you run slower for long distances, some days you do interval work, etc. etc. )  

 

Maybe I will also add in some of the treadwell readers too for extra practice.   (Thanks for suggesting those 4blessingmom!!)   We were using the "I See Sam" readers before switching to Sonlight's list.   He made huge leaps in fluency with those books.   But, he hated reading them because they are not great literature.   They are stories written specifically for teaching someone to read. (He really has a great discernment for good books which I can appreciate!)    With the Sonlight books, he is laughing and smiling while reading them which I take as a good sign.   (What good is it to have a child who can read well if they HATE doing it....you know?)    All that to say, the Treadwell readers look like better literature! 

[silver]

I read online that reading aloud is extremely important for people with dyslexia because it helps them with phrasing....which helps with fluency and comprehension.   The article I read linked to some research that said that reading aloud was the single best thing that helped people with dyslexia.  So that is why I previously had dropped silent reading and switched everything to reading out loud.  

 

Then maybe break up the reading sessions? Half an hour in one sitting is a lot of work, even a fluent reader might have a hard time with that length of time in one sitting. Add on to that having the work of decoding and it is probably mentally fatiguing him. Try two 15 minute sessions to see if it helps; if it's still too long, try three 10 minute sessions. Or try "popcorn reading" where you take turns reading and he gets small breaks.

[speedmom4]

I didn't read the article. But I would like to share my experience with my four children. I am finishing my 15th year homeschooling. I have one in college and three at home. 

 

My oldest was the easy child (homeschooling wise). She excelled at everything academic. I felt super proud of myself. In our state we are mandated to begin testing by age 7. She always scored in the 99th percentile for most subjects. That pattern continued even to the SAT. My next daughter was exactly the opposite. Everything was difficult, particularly reading and spelling. Math hasn't been easy either. Her test scores around 3rd grade were abysmal. I got a huge dose of humility that I needed. We continued to work hard. I was often very worried. Now she is doing all online classes for high school and makes mostly As with some Bs thrown in there. She scored at the national average on her first SAT and we couldn't be prouder. She is now working at a camp all summer for free. She has a strong work ethic. I have no doubts about her ability to do well in college. 

 

My next two are boys. They both struggled mightily with spelling and reading. They are currently going into 8th and 9th grades. They still aren't the best spellers but they excel in their other subjects. Their standardized test scores now are way above average. I have no doubts that they will do well in college and in life. Thank God for spell check! 

 

My point is don't worry about where your son is in 3rd grade. Three of my children would be in trouble if their whole life was based on their academic achievement at that age. I truly believe in the philosophy, better late than early. Let your son learn at his pace. Let him move forward where he excels and encourage him where he struggles. Celebrate small victories. I was so stressed out and compared my children to others when they were that age that I missed so much. Don't do that. Keep telling yourself that in ten years those test scores aren't going to mean diddly. 

 

(((Hugs)))

 

Elise in NC

[8filltheheart]

. Or try "popcorn reading" where you take turns reading and he gets small breaks.

We call it team reading, but this is definitely the approach I take. I read a couple of pages. They read a few pages. Repeat until finished for the day. :)

[pitterpatter]

Ugh. And, how long with such administrative support will she keep trying? It took all of two years of my sister being a new teacher before they completely broke her.

 

Personally, sounds like a candidate for that school's teacher of the year to me.

 

School makes this a self fulfilling prophecy.  One of our local 3rd grade teachers had and incoming student who read at a beginning of 1st grade level.  She was told by the principle to not waste her time because he wouldn't past the end of year test.  She "wasted" her lunch time anyway.  He made it to an beginning of 3rd grade level.  The principle stopped by to gloat because she was right, he didn't pass the end of year test.

 

[Mom22ns]

I only read some of the replies so this may be completely inappropriate at this point in the conversation.

 

My response is that the 3rd grade make it or break it has nothing to do with homeschoolers. The reason it applies in a classroom setting is that children switch from learning to read to reading to learn in the classroom. If the child can't read, he will fall behind in every area very quickly. Homeschool parents continue to read to their children as long as necessary. No one is going to leave their child with a book they can't read and say tough luck if you don't know it after 20 min.

 

The Matthew effect does have implications for homeschoolers. They do not have to be tragic, but they do exist. If your child isn't reading well and therefor doesn't like to read, they read less and get less learning. However, parents can spend lots of time reading aloud and encouraging reading, and keep the child reading at their level. They don't have to be left behind. Parents should be very aware of the risk though and work to minimize it if they have a late reader.

[Storygirl]

TheAttachedMama, I think it's okay to require silent independent reading. My three youngest very rarely choose to read for fun. Two of them do have some LDs. Occasionally at night if they can't sleep they will read for a little bit, but that is not the norm.

 

I am a huge reader myself; we have always read aloud to them; and we own many books at an appropriate reading level. They love going to the library and will choose mountains of books (mostly nonfiction; often the same books they selected the last time we were at the library), but when we get home, the books sit in a neglected pile while the children choose to do other things.

 

During the school year, I set a timer for twenty minutes either before or after lunch and had them read silently for that time. I had to put some rules in place, because I had children who would try to chat with their siblings, or would announce they had to go to the bathroom and couldn't wait, or would finish their book three minutes into the reading time and then either wander off to find another book or just sit there distracting the other children. Sigh. Somehow it is never easy with my crew. So they had to use the bathroom first, and if they were close to the end of one book, they had to have a second book ready to go. I had them show me their book before beginning to make sure it was appropriate, because they would often choose something either too hard or too easy, but I let them make their own choices otherwise. I tried to always have a stack of books handy for them to choose from. I had them all stay together in the living room while I worked in the kitchen, so that I could keep an eye on how things were going.

 

It sounds like I am really controlling, probably. The truth is that my children need me to provide this kind of structure, because of their personalities and their disabilities. Other families may not need to set things up in the same way.

 

Here is my real point -- my kids loved it. They enjoyed having quiet time to read to themselves. They did not start out loving the idea of it; eye rolling and groaning happened, and complaining happened. But  after awhile it became routine, and they liked it. They would sometimes be excited to share part of the story that they had read. Did it translate into them reading more on their own? Nope, not yet. But I'm convinced that children become stronger readers by reading.

 

We've been off our usual schedule this summer, and our designated reading time has not been happening. So reading has not been happening. We're going to start setting aside reading time again, because I believe they need it.

 

If you think you'd like to try some timed silent reading with your son, you could start with just a ten or fifteen minute window for one week. If he likes it, then continue. If it becomes a battle, drop it.

 

If it is truly dyslexia, he may need a different kind of help, so I'd still suggest evaluations to know for sure.

[Alte Veste Academy]

Out of curiosity, do you have him pick any/many books on his own? Has he gone through the early reader section at the library with freedom to choose anything he wants? Or the nonfiction section? (My beginning readers got lots of mileage out of pictures and captions.) From your last few posts, it sounds like you are picking his readers for him. My most reluctant and latest reader resisted stuff I recommended and/or already had on hand, but picked out many readers from the library because they were interesting topics (nonfiction animal books, Star Wars, Mr. Putter and Tabby, any and all books about birds or cats, LOL). At any rate, interest and self-determination improved his reading level faster and better than anything else.

[FairProspects]

Team reading or popcorn reading, audio, and immersion reading. Immersion Reading has carried over and made my kids better readers independently as well. Echo reading is also critical for increasing fluency here. We also do Six-Minute Solution, which is a smaller passage broken down by grade level, to work specifically on fluency.

 

For my dyslexics, they can be super interested and still not read when there gets to be a critical mass of words on a page. I work on it by strewing magazines and lots of non-fiction books with diagrams/pictures/side bars which makes it feel like the text is broken up even if there is a ton of text. I also stock many books of one series (like countries in a series or science books in a series), because dyslexics get used to the format of organization and use those clues to help them read.

[MerryAtHope]

YES!   I just finished reading that.   :)   It is like she read my mind (or perhaps my forum post!)

 

I am thankful for her experience....but I'm not really sure what the take away is for my particular situation. 

What if I already read aloud to my children nearly every day?  

 

Then you know you are doing the right thing to:

 

increase vocabulary

develop a motivation to read

develop your son's ability to empathize with others and think through different situations in life

have some enjoyable shared time together

fill in learning gaps (he won't be held back by the Matthew Effect--he won't be left in the dust when it comes to learning history and science and other subjects because you are teaching him through other means)

 

 

And what if I already have been using a systematic phonics program since the beginning?   (My sons phonics skills are actually pretty strong compared to most kids his age.  But he is still not reading well.)    

 

The truth is that it's just not easy for some kids to learn to read. And because it's not easy, they aren't going to like it. Likely he will keep on not liking it until it becomes easy. Do you blame him? I don't like to do things that seem impossible and out of reach for me. 

 

So, you do what you can to make the practice and the process palatable. You research effective strategies, and you help him to learn them--and you keep helping him until it becomes easier and he can claim them as his own and put them into practice. Using O-G strategies makes reading attainable and easier than it would be to try to learn without those tools and strategies. But I can tell you that it doesn't mean it will be easy. You can do your best to make the process enjoyable for him--but you can't make him enjoy it. I came to a place with my oldest where I decided that was okay--and it helped me to relax. We kept working at a reasonable pace, I encouraged him to try to have a good attitude even though he didn't enjoy this process, just like I try to have a good attitude when doing things I don't enjoy. I tried to show him grace when he got frustrated and overwhelmed, drawing on those times in my life when I felt frustrated and overwhelmed. I let him know when responses crossed a line. We did lots of forgiving each other and trying again the next day. I made adaptations as needed to make things doable, and we just kept going. 

 

Keep praying for him. A breakthrough will happen. You are doing all the right things. Sometimes it just isn't easy.

 

 

And I use every trick in the book to try to encourage independent reading.   But he would rather scrub a toilet than pick up a book to read, which puts him further behind in his reading practice.

 

I guess I need to find more strategies to strongly encourage independent reading right now.  

 

Right now I have him read aloud to me for 30 minutes per day.   (He turns 9 in late November.)  I also have him read a VERY easy bible story every morning, and a VERY easy picture book to his baby brother.    Is this enough??    Does he also need to be doing silent reading to himself every day?  

 

I actually think you're doing a pretty good amount for an 8 year-old and don't know that "strongly" pushing is necessarily the right path. Sometimes too much pushing just makes them hate it more. Just work diligently, daily, as you are.

 

Does he feel the same way about ALL reading (ie, his AAR lessons, the other reading materials you use with him, the 30 minutes reading aloud to you (is that all part of the reading lessons or in addition? I wasn't sure), the Bible Story, and the picture book)?

 

I would spend 30 minutes per day teaching him reading (to include read-aloud time, AAR lessons, other materials you are using) total. If the other two books encourage his siblings and he doesn't mind too much, I'd keep doing that as well. I know you said he's in AAR 4, and there are some hard words (high school level words) in that level. It's pretty amazing that he's able to work through that (but that also might be part of the struggle right now, though I know he never liked learning to read). 

 

When my oldest was this age, I extended his bedtime by 30 minutes if he wanted to look at books for that time. Usually his choice was Calvin and Hobbes. At first, he mainly just looked at the pictures, but he gradually started trying to read them more. So that can be a way to try to sneak in some silent reading.

 

My son just didn't enjoy "readers." Frog & Toad books were somewhat interesting for him...also Henry and Mudge, have you used those? But for the most part, he felt most early readers were "stupid." He was interested in our read-alouds because they were meaty and much more interesting. So, it was hard for him to even have motivation because for all his work, he still couldn't read chapter books with long, involved stories like he wanted. We spent a lot of time buddy reading--he'd read a paragraph with lots of help, then I'd read two pages to help move him through the story, then repeat the cycle. 

 

The first reading he did for "fun" was not until he was 10 or 11 (ie, not "assigned" reading though he did enjoy Sonlight books most of the time), and then it was usually books based on movies (he had an Indiana Jones book that was 2 or 3" thick that he read a few times--it told the stories that the 4 movies covered). He also loved the Star Wars Jedi Quest series. He read them in upper elementary, and he was about a grade level behind in reading at that point. They're for 8-12 year-olds. If you look on Amazon under StarWars Jedi Quest, you can see inside some of the books.

 

If he's not quite ready for chapter books yet, I did see another series of DK Star Wars books.

 

Some people enjoy "doing" more than "reading" and I don't think that's bad. Not everyone will be a bookworm, so if we envision that when we have that goal of helping our kids to "love reading," I think it can be somewhat unrealistic. I do think it's a realistic goal to help a child overcome the difficulties of reading so that he can read whatever he wants, when he wants, without a struggle. My oldest may never be the bookworm that my youngest is, but does enjoy reading a variety of books today. 

 

 

Use audiobooks for more than just listening.  Have him visually follow along in the paperback while listening.  Have him listen to a good book first, a chapter at a time, and then have him read it aloud to you.  Find large print books.

 

Print size mattered a lot to my son (who also went through vision therapy, but tracking was still work if the print was small. It took time for him to get to a point where print size wasn't an issue--just this last year of high school, in fact. His junior year, I made him read Black Like Me, which had really small print--I offered to find an audio book, but he preferred to try to read it. Anyway, after that one, another small print book didn't seem to throw him at all in his senior year.) But definitely as a learning reader, print size will matter.

 

We also used audio books for science. He read along with General Science in 7th grade, but by 8th asked to drop the audio for Physical Science because he could now read faster than the audio. When he started, he had trouble keeping up with the audio. So, that can make a difference too.

 

Thank you for saying that.....and please keep on saying that to me and remind me to rest.   I am not naturally a "restful" person.   I am a planner and a previous engineer.   I am a fixer....and a worrier.   Man, oh man....no one can worry as much as me.  I try NOT to be that way, but that is my natural tendency in life.   I think God has blessed me with this wonderful little boy in an attempt to teach me how to rest and rely on him.   I am a slow learner sometimes, but I am really trying.  

 

So keep reminding me about that. 

 

Rinsing and repeating per your request :-).

 

I think the biggest thing you do is rest. I don't mean quit teaching (far from it, continue pursuing meeting his needs, encouraging him, providing needed accommodations, pursuing therapies as needed and so on). But what I do mean is rest from comparing. Rest from worrying. Rest from feeling like he has to be something he's not--and just let him be who he is now. He's a little boy who loves some things and hates others, who probably excels at doing some things even while he struggles with reading/writing/spelling. Don't miss enjoying him and encouraging his passions, don't let struggles strangle out the joy of these years with him. Rest.

[IdahoHomeschooler]

Ugh, I vote we add a Penelope Trunk disclaimer to thread titles. We can call it the "Penelope Effect."

[AdventuresinHomeschooling]

I know others have posted something similar, but the reason third grade is often make it or break it is because it is such a transition year in standardized schools. This is the year when kids transition from learning to read to reading to learn. Therefore, in a brick and mortar school where a teacher is managing 30 kids or so, they have to move on with the content and do not have time to work individually with those who are still struggling with that transition. As a homeschooler, you have the unique ability to work individually with your child in areas they excel and struggle right at their level. You are not constantly racing ahead trying to encourage your child to catch up but working with them where they are. You are still teaching content in ways they are capable of, and when the light switch goes off, you can race ahead at full speed and "catch up."

 

In public schools, all children average out around fourth grade. This was a quote a friend heard from a teacher. They slow down the fast ones and help the slower ones so they are all ready to transition to reading to learn in fourth grade. Homeschooling does no such thing and just keeps plodding along at the child's pace.

[FO4UR]

Ugh, I vote we add a Penelope Trunk disclaimer to thread titles. We can call it the "Penelope Effect."

 

 

I know, right!?!