I think I killed a corn snake :(

[Ginevra]

I could not tell if it was a copperhead or not. I don't like killing things. I did not want to kill it. But my kitty kept poking around where it had been in my garden and DH said, "WHY didn't you kill it? What if it bites Mason? Or you?" So I discovered it again, moved it with the rake, deliberated for several minutes trying to ID it off the web. Finally, fear got the better (mostly after I saw a web picture of a black and purple hand from a copperhead bite) and I pierced it. :(

 

I hate killing!

[maize]

I would have probably made the same choice and felt just as bad.

 

Kids' safety first and I can't take a chance if I am not sure.

[umsami]

I'm sorry.

 

I would have done the same.

 

There was a corn snake on DS3's playground at preschool a few days ago.  The teacher just picked it up and moved it.  I would have probably freaked much more...especially with so many little kids.

 

There was a water moccasin at DS2's playground last week.  They basically had to evacuate the playground as they are mean and nasty.

 

Yuck.  Florida....we get the crazies and the nasty poisonous snakes, spiders, gators, and sharks. 

[HS Mom in NC]

When it's time to consider killing something or someone useful questions include, "Who am I providing for?" and "Who am I protecting?"

 

We have poisonous snakes here in AZ.  If they're out in the desert and not about to strike anyone, I leave them alone.  If they're in my living space (house and yards) they could harm someone so I'm OK with killing them.  That's how it works in nature. I would also eat a rattlesnake I killed because they taste good and there's no point in wasting a dead animal.

[Ravin]

The eyes are a fairly obvious tell: slit pupils like a cat = copperhead, round pupils = corn snake.

[Ewe Mama]

:grouphug:

 

You made the right decision in the moment.

[Guest]

The eyes are a fairly obvious tell: slit pupils like a cat = copperhead, round pupils = corn snake.

Yeah, I was looking for all these things that are supposed to help ID, but it is still hard to decide when you are only looking at one and have no experience. It is not the first time I have deliberated over what kind of snake, but it's hard to really compare when its not two different ones in front of you.

[JonesinIndiana]

Yeah, kill it.

 

I've had DH relocate snakes that were harmless but in an emergency, I kill and ask questions later. ;)

[Katy]

If you post a picture of it's head we can tell you.  But you should bury the head.

[Catwoman]

I would be second-guessing myself, too, but it sounds like you did what needed to be done. If you were saying that neither type of snake was poisonous, I would say you were wrong to kill it, but in this case I think you needed to err on the side of personal safety because it might have been poisonous.

[Joker]

We killed a corn snake too. It was in our garage. I was prepared for what they looked like here the next time and somehow didn't kill it - even though that one was in my kitchen. :svengo:
I kept an eye on that one while dh drove home to make it go outside (since for some reason it wouldn't go out the door I opened on its own).

[Liz CA]

I would have been outta there.

[Guest]

If you post a picture of it's head we can tell you. But you should bury the head.

I buried the whole thing. I didn't want to look at it any longer.

[Guest]

I am 99% positive there were two snakes out there and I kept thinking, "they will turn out to be copperheads and I'll have two hundred of them in a month." There were two holes/dens about three feet apart (or two entrances to the same den). My son and the cat found one because the plastic over the hole was rippling. But the snake went down the hole. A few minutes later, the cat was poking around in the other area and that plastic was rippling, too. I looked at that snake for a few minutes, but it went down the hole. Then DH showed up and said I should have killed it (or them).

 

When the snake showed up again, one moment it was outside of the plastic and the next moment, there was a snake fully exposed under the plastic; I think these are two snakes, not one. That's when I moved the snake and deliberated over it. I called for DH, who would have killed it without batting an eye, but he had left to walk the dog. That is how it fell to me making the decision.

[Seasider]

:grouphug:

 

You made the right decision in the moment.

I agree.

 

One way to identify a copperhead is by the "Hershey kiss" pattern along it's sides.

 

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_4SXuISKesuo/S8dCI9QEgAI/AAAAAAAAAIs/f1PZyeRUCL0/s1600/S+Copperhead.jpg

[MercyA]

I am so sorry.  I hate killing, too.   :grouphug:

[Serenade]

Same thing happened to us last fall, and I felt equally bad.  The snake was on our patio, just a few feet from where we were eating dinner.  We tried to ID it first, but with the low light it was difficult.  Plus it was striking at the broomstick.  It was a little thing, but we couldn't risk it.  I remember a neighbor of mine once killing a baby copperhead, and he could tell I was upset, but he told me that even a baby copperhead can cause a heap of trouble.   Anyhow, we weren't able to ID the little snake properly until after it was dead -- I could tell then by the pattern on its belly.

[nevergiveup]

The eyes are a fairly obvious tell: slit pupils like a cat = copperhead, round pupils = corn snake.

Yeah, I've heard this, too, but try getting close enough to stare into a snake's eyes while wearing bifocals.

[Another Lynn]

I guess I'm the only one who thinks the only good snake is a dead snake? 

 

j/k..... sort of.....

 

 

 

 

At least you didn't flush it down the toilet?

[SparklyUnicorn]

I don't blame you.  I've never even seen a snake except in pet stores or zoos.

 

 

[Ipsey]

Aw, an honest mistake. It happens.

 

We had a neighbor when we lived in the Deep South who was ... mentally challenged. He believed my husband (a biologist) to be the smartest man alive (except on the matter of snakes). He would kill several snakes a summer and bring them to DH to identify. Every single time it was either a corn snake or garter snake or worm snake.

 

My husband kept trying to help him learn to identify snakes and that some snakes were "good" and should be left alone, but our neighbor kept insisting that they were all dangerous and to make sure our kids kept an eye out for the snakes and avoided them. My kids started hiding when he came over because they didn't want to see the dead snakes.

 

Those were the only snakes my kids ever saw during our years in the South. :(

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ktgrok]

Well, in good news, because of this thread I've now read up more on how to identify a copperhead, so you may have either saved me a bite, or kept me from killing a harmless snake. So, maybe in the bigger picture you did good for snakedom.

 

Seems the biggest tell is the "wide at the side, narrow over the backbone" blotches. Most of the others seem to have wide blotches on the backbone. 

[Dmmetler]

I should boiler plate this:

 

Please do NOT try to kill a venomous snake (and a non-venomous snake is no risk to a human whatsoever). A majority of snakebites happen when someone is in the process of trying to kill/capture a snake. A snake can move/strike much faster than you can (we're talking milliseconds).

 

Now that you know you have snakes on your property, please contact someone in your area who is knowledgeable about them. This may be your local herpetological society, a professional snake relocation service,  a college biology department, especially if they have a herpetology class or major, or a friend with a lot of experience with them (a lot of hunters/fishermen are). Have them walk your property with you and point out areas that are likely to be prime habitat for snakes. Since these are also the areas that attract rodents, cleaning them up is a good choice regardless. If you live in a rural area, this may be impossible, but in an urban area, it often is quite easy to make your yard snake-proof. The only snakes we regularly see in urban areas here are insectivores unless a property is either a) very, very badly maintained and is attracting rats or b)has both a chicken coop and a wood stove (woodpiles are great shelter, chickens both provide food directly, since most snakes eat eggs quite happily or attract rodents due to feed. (Because of the latter, DD relocates quite a few snakes for homeschool friends. So far, none have been venomous).

 

Check in your area for snake aversion training for dogs. This is usually done by hunting groups, Ducks unlimited, and similar organizations. It works better for some breeds than others-but fortunately, it works best for the breeds that have the greatest probability of getting bitten by snakes because they're the most likely to engage with something unfamiliar.

 

Check with your vet about vaccinating a dog against pit viper bites (all venomous snakes in the United States except Coral snakes in the deep South are pit vipers). It's expensive, but so is treating a snakebite. While you're there, find out which veterinary clinics keep dog antivenin on hand. Many small animal only practices do not. 

 

Either find a service that will relocate snakes in your area and call them, or get the training and equipment to safely do so yourself. Do not attempt to kill or capture a snake without knowing what kind it is unless you have the training and experience to do so. Again, check hunting groups, Game and fish, or Wildlife resources for your state  if you are interested in learning how to capture/relocate a snake safely.

 

If you see a snake, step back, do not engage, and keep kids and dogs away.  If you can safely take a photo, do so, since this can help identify a snake. There is a snake identification group on Facebook that usually can identify a snake from a photograph quite quickly. David Steen @Alongsidewild on Twitter often can do so quite quickly as well.

 

Snake identification is like any sort of pattern matching. The more you do it, the better you are, but generally, you don't want to do it when the living snake is right in front of you. Step back, get away, take a picture if you can do so safely, and let someone else handle it if the snake is venomous or if you aren't sure that it's not. Please do not try to kill it. It's not safe for you, and that snake is there for a reason.

 

 

[creekland]

I would have been outta there.

 

Me too.  And hubby would have taken care of the snake (regardless of variety) then it would have become chicken food.  Chickens LOVE snakes for breakfast, lunch, or dinner.  I like my snakes better as eggs after they've been processed by chickens.

 

Being a green nature lover I've tried to overcome my intense dislike of snakes, but the best I've come is tolerating them out in the wild on trails.  We don't interfere with them there.  I draw the line at my house/farm though.  Our horses/ponies also fear snakes, so I can justify it just a tad by saying we're stopping a potential spook - and spooking ponies can be deadly with their weight.  In reality, it's mainly my fear, though hubby doesn't like snakes either so we're in agreement.

 

Fortunately, we only see one or two per year around here now.

[Guest]

Now that you know you have snakes on your property, please contact someone in your area who is knowledgeable about them. This may be your local herpetological society, a professional snake relocation service, a college biology department, especially if they have a herpetology class or major, or a friend with a lot of experience with them (a lot of hunters/fishermen are). Have them walk your property with you and point out areas that are likely to be prime habitat for snakes. Since these are also the areas that attract rodents, cleaning them up is a good choice regardless. If you live in a rural area, this may be impossible, but in an urban area, it often is quite easy to make your yard snake-proof. The only snakes we regularly see in urban areas here are insectivores unless a property is either a) very, very badly maintained and is attracting rats or b)has both a chicken coop and a wood stove (woodpiles are great shelter, chickens both provide food directly, since most snakes eat eggs quite happily or attract rodents due to feed. (Because of the latter, DD relocates quite a few snakes for homeschool friends. So far, none have been venomous).

I appreciate your post, but there is no way in heck all these steps would happen here. First, we are on ten wooded acres backing to a farmed field. We definitely have snakes and rodents, no doubt about it. Second, DH would think he has never heard something so absurd if I told him I was having a professional animal handler remove the snakes. He grew up on a farm and there was one simple solution for any harmful or questionable animal - kill it. I could not even get animal control to come out to my MIL's house to remove a feral cat that was almost certainly sick and/or dying; they said, "stay away from it, bury or burn it when it is dead."

 

What you're saying might make sense to some people living where wild animals are rare, but it would be absurd where I live.

 

P.S. I should be more accepting of killing based on my lifestyle, but I'm not when I am the one who is carrying it out. If DH killed the snake and I never saw it, I would be much less bothered.

[Carol in Cal.]

I am just plain amazed that you could kill that snake at all.

I've been around rattlesnakes in the wild a number of times, and they are SO FAST.
Plus they stand their ground instead of withdrawing when you get near them.

Maybe not all species are like that?

I can't even imagine trying to kill a rattler.  I'm positive that it would get me first.  Not LOLing either.

[Ravin]

Rattlers usually warn, unless you step on them or something. Copperheads as mentioned above are more likely to retreat or hide. They are less aggressive.

 

I would want the Corn snakes around on a rural property because of their value in keeping down pests. I would work on learning to identify. If you did positively identify a nonvenemous snake, you could probably mark it to make it more easily identifiable the next time.

[creekland]

I would want the Corn snakes around on a rural property because of their value in keeping down pests.

 

I hear this all the time, but in my real life experience, cats do a far better job at keeping the rodent population in check.

 

When we first moved to this farm hubby disposed of too many snakes to count (mostly rat snakes), yet we had mice in our feed bins literally waiting for us to feed our ponies.  We probably could have caught them by hand if we'd tried.  It was really frustrating.  We'd kill a couple, but it never made a dent.

 

Fast forward one year and there were far, far fewer snakes, but three cats... mice were around, I'm sure, but their population had taken quite a hit and they weren't "begging" in sight any longer.

 

We built up to 8 cats (only 7 hunted though) and we hardly saw a mouse.  Now due to passing years (17 or 18) and not replacing the cats as they've passed away lately we're down to two.  It's tempting to get more, but I've seen some feral ones out there and assuming they are doing their job.

[Joker]

I should boiler plate this:

 

Please do NOT try to kill a venomous snake (and a non-venomous snake is no risk to a human whatsoever). A majority of snakebites happen when someone is in the process of trying to kill/capture a snake. A snake can move/strike much faster than you can (we're talking milliseconds).

 

Now that you know you have snakes on your property, please contact someone in your area who is knowledgeable about them. This may be your local herpetological society, a professional snake relocation service, a college biology department, especially if they have a herpetology class or major, or a friend with a lot of experience with them (a lot of hunters/fishermen are). Have them walk your property with you and point out areas that are likely to be prime habitat for snakes. Since these are also the areas that attract rodents, cleaning them up is a good choice regardless. If you live in a rural area, this may be impossible, but in an urban area, it often is quite easy to make your yard snake-proof. The only snakes we regularly see in urban areas here are insectivores unless a property is either a) very, very badly maintained and is attracting rats or b)has both a chicken coop and a wood stove (woodpiles are great shelter, chickens both provide food directly, since most snakes eat eggs quite happily or attract rodents due to feed. (Because of the latter, DD relocates quite a few snakes for homeschool friends. So far, none have been venomous).

 

Check in your area for snake aversion training for dogs. This is usually done by hunting groups, Ducks unlimited, and similar organizations. It works better for some breeds than others-but fortunately, it works best for the breeds that have the greatest probability of getting bitten by snakes because they're the most likely to engage with something unfamiliar.

 

Check with your vet about vaccinating a dog against pit viper bites (all venomous snakes in the United States except Coral snakes in the deep South are pit vipers). It's expensive, but so is treating a snakebite. While you're there, find out which veterinary clinics keep dog antivenin on hand. Many small animal only practices do not.

 

Either find a service that will relocate snakes in your area and call them, or get the training and equipment to safely do so yourself. Do not attempt to kill or capture a snake without knowing what kind it is unless you have the training and experience to do so. Again, check hunting groups, Game and fish, or Wildlife resources for your state if you are interested in learning how to capture/relocate a snake safely.

 

If you see a snake, step back, do not engage, and keep kids and dogs away. If you can safely take a photo, do so, since this can help identify a snake. There is a snake identification group on Facebook that usually can identify a snake from a photograph quite quickly. David Steen @Alongsidewild on Twitter often can do so quite quickly as well.

 

Snake identification is like any sort of pattern matching. The more you do it, the better you are, but generally, you don't want to do it when the living snake is right in front of you. Step back, get away, take a picture if you can do so safely, and let someone else handle it if the snake is venomous or if you aren't sure that it's not. Please do not try to kill it. It's not safe for you, and that snake is there for a reason.

I know you mean well but I don't think this is realistic at all. I can't even get professionals to remove gators from our backyard retention pond unless they hit a certain size or are aggressive so I doubt someone would show up for snakes. They're everywhere and I think I killed my first one with a garden hoe around age eight.

[wapiti]

We get a lot of field mice and voles on our property, especially under the patio and once in a while in the garage (yuck).  One summer there was a bull snake (common in our neighborhood) on the side of our house and there seemed to be fewer mice that summer.  I miss the snake  :tongue_smilie:.  When we moved here and noticed the mice, the first thing I did was take my then-three kids to the allergist to see if we could get a cat - no dice, one is allergic.

 

There are also rattlers around the neighborhood occasionally but we have yet to see one in our yard.  I do take pics of snakes when I see them, so far only bull and garter.  Spiders, on the other hand, are my nemesis - I think they arrived with the landscaping mulch and some of them are unsafe (black widow, hobo).  I find them in the basement at certain times of the year.  Which reminds me, we have had a couple of baby garter snakes get into the basement, though they're usually no longer alive when we find them.  (eww is right)

[Guest]

I've killed dozens and dozens of copperheads. It's fairly easy to do with a long handled, sharp hoe. Our Texas property was crawling with them and cotton mouths. They're easy to identify after you've seen them repeatedly. Very young ones will have a yello-lime green tipped tail. Copperheads are not aggressive. That's why people get bit- they're able to pick them up. Mainly, tho, they are bit because they accidentally stepped on them or inadvertently touched one-- why? Copperheads don't normally run from people or animals. They remain calm and still, and easily blend in with the landscape. I've spent hours digging in a flower bed only to realize( and nearly have a heart attack) that a huge one was patiently coiled up within a foot of me.

Our dumb dogs were bit repeatedly. The vet told us to give them Benadryl immediately. It becomes dangerous if they're bitten in the neck/mouth, as their airway can become too swollen to breathe. They can be given an injection of antibiotics or amoxicillin. After the second or third time, our dogs didnt seem to react as severely.

I won't mess with cotton mouths. They are usually darker, more distinct triangular head/slit eyes, and often very thick/wide. They will move away quickly, but just as often will aggressively move towards you. Luckily, our dumb dogs were smart enough to keep their distance from these, so maybe they weren't as clueless as we thought.

Wow. Frightening. Two things that gave me pause were that the snake was not in a hurry to get away. It sat there like, "Yeah, I'm here. What are you going to do about it?" The other thing was that when I did try to drag it with the rake, it shook its tail and that twitching tail looked like the danger sign.

[HS Mom in NC]

We get a lot of field mice and voles on our property, especially under the patio and once in a while in the garage (yuck).  One summer there was a bull snake (common in our neighborhood) on the side of our house and there seemed to be fewer mice that summer.  I miss the snake  :tongue_smilie:. 

 

I grew up on horse property and my mother boarded other peoples' horses for a while.  There were gophers. Horses breaking a leg in a gopher hole have to have thousands of dollars in vet bills or have to be killed. 

 

There are many ways to kill gophers (drown them out with a hose when they first arrive, hook up the gas exhaust into their hole and gas them, use traps that spike them, etc.) but the most effective way is to catch a bull snake and send it down their hole.  Done and done.  It's the preferred method and one of my brothers has lots of snake handling experiences. 

[Seasider]

I know you mean well but I don't think this is realistic at all. I can't even get professionals to remove gators from our backyard retention pond unless they hit a certain size or are aggressive so I doubt someone would show up for snakes. They're everywhere and I think I killed my first one with a garden hoe around age eight.

IKR? We were told not to call until the gator approached 5' in length. They would laugh if I called about an indigenous snake.

[Seasider]

Cotton mouths definitely make that smell.

[Tammyla]

:grouphug:  :scared:  :smash:   I'm okay with it, and I'm sorry you had to go through it.  I would have freaked out; you were very brave btw.  Better safe than sorry...

[wapiti]

There are many ways to kill gophers (drown them out with a hose when they first arrive, hook up the gas exhaust into their hole and gas them, use traps that spike them, etc.) but the most effective way is to catch a bull snake and send it down their hole.  Done and done.  It's the preferred method and one of my brothers has lots of snake handling experiences. 

 

Well that's interesting - I didn't know that.  It just so happens that there's a large population of prairie dogs on the ranch just behind the houses across the street from us.

 

Oddly, only once in ten years have I seen a prairie dog on our property.  I was in the kitchen and turned around to see a prairie dog standing up and looking in, right outside the sliding glass door.  I was speechless - I couldn't believe how long the claws were.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

This is one of those (increasingly rare) times that I really appreciate living in the suburbs. Copperheads? Cotton mouths? FIVE-FOOT ALLIGATORS???

 

I just discovered yet another bunny nest in our raised beds, and I was annoyed. Now I'm feeling much better about them :lol:

[ktgrok]

Wow. Frightening. Two things that gave me pause were that the snake was not in a hurry to get away. It sat there like, "Yeah, I'm here. What are you going to do about it?" The other thing was that when I did try to drag it with the rake, it shook its tail and that twitching tail looked like the danger sign.

 

A lot of nonvenomous snakes twitch their tails...we have black racers here and I have a video of one doing it. It is pretty creepy, but not a sign of being venomous.

[ktgrok]

This is one of those (increasingly rare) times that I really appreciate living in the suburbs. Copperheads? Cotton mouths? FIVE-FOOT ALLIGATORS???

 

I just discovered yet another bunny nest in our raised beds, and I was annoyed. Now I'm feeling much better about them :lol:

 

I'm in the suburbs, and we have snakes, alligators, and bears :)

 

My ex stepped on a pygmy rattlesnake in our backyard, actually. It was a mostly dry bite, thankfully. 

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

I'm in the suburbs, and we have snakes, alligators, and bears :)

 

My ex stepped on a pygmy rattlesnake in our backyard, actually. It was a mostly dry bite, thankfully. 

 

Oh my word. I have a hard enough time getting my indoorsy kids to go outside as it is. If there was a risk of something like snakes or alligators here, they'd never leave the house. There have been bear sightings 10-15 minutes from us, but those are extremely rare. Our local neighborhoods seem almost sterile in terms of wildlife!

 

I will say that I've been expecting to see some kind of snake in the yard since we moved here, but still nothing. (Of course, now that I've just put that out into the universe, we'll see one tomorrow.) The most frightening thing that's happened in our yard was the night that the tree frog fell on me as I was leaning back in a chair (in the near dark). It hit me hard in the chest, and I almost freaked out because I had no idea what had happened. Of course, once we figured it out, we had a lot of fun with that little guy, and there was no risk of injury (to us, at least!). We even managed to make it trill by playing frog sounds on the computer :D

[Georgiana Daniels]

We did the same thing when we found a snake curled up on our doorstep in the middle of the night. Not knowing a thing about snakes, dh killed it (amazing what the man can do with a rake and a yardstick!) and we didn't find out until later that it was non-venomous. Better safe than sorry!

[Ravin]

Wow. Frightening. Two things that gave me pause were that the snake was not in a hurry to get away. It sat there like, "Yeah, I'm here. What are you going to do about it?" The other thing was that when I did try to drag it with the rake, it shook its tail and that twitching tail looked like the danger sign.

I read that corn snakes do that. It's imitative behavior to deter anything that might mistake the gesture and think it's a rattlesnake.

[Guest]

That sound you just heard was me locking every door and window and never leaving my house. Thanks!

[Okra]

That sound you just heard was me locking every door and window and never leaving my house. Thanks!

 

 

Double yes!  This thread makes me never want to work in my garden again!  I'm sorry, but snakes give me the creepy feeling all over. I should have never clicked on this thread.