SparklyUnicorn Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Oh I totally agree a lot of parents who do it like it and their kids like it. I don't begrudge them that all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 My kids don't do competitive sports really. But they do more committed activities. Everything we do is probably within 20 miles of our home - we dont' generally travel for events on a regular basis. However, on a normal week, my dd10 dances 4 days a week at a studio 2 miles from home. This week, she will be there 6 days because they're opening a big show next weekend. My ds14 is about to start a 5 night a week community theater production rehearsal cycle that will finish up at the end of April. Both my kids take music lessons and they practice 6 days a week, though I consider that part of school here. My kids homeschool. I don't think we could make the same choices if my kids were in school all day and I suspect my kids wouldn't have the passion or motivation if they had to spend the day in the classroom to do committed activities. So that's my first thought. My 2nd thought is by the teen years you can rarely FORCE at that point. Usually a kid is dragging a parent along at that point if the kid is in a committed activity. Now that I have a teen, I know lots of parents who were making full force rounds with younger kids who have kids that have just really tapered off on what they're willing to spend time on. All of that said, who cares. Aren't there a lot worse things families could be doing? Kids are learning about commitment, teamwork, working with a mentor, and getting some exercise. They're spending time with a parent. I'm glad competitive sports are not my kids thing. We tried a few sports when the kids were younger, but nothing stuck. Some other things HAVE stuck though and they have been worthwhile pursuits for my kids. I just think there's a bunch worse things teens can be up to than spending time working on a sports interest. Even if it's one that leads no where. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 It's very much an all or nothing culture when it comes to kids sports. I can see it with gymnastics , some kids at six and goofy and cannt do a cartwheel. Others are practicing their one handed cartwheel . It's all fun and no problem , except in two years the just-for-fun kids will have NO chance at gymnastics and the really good kids will be have to choose between 3x per week of nothing. I bet some parents here who are defensive about their family lifestyle would like to not have to commit so much at such a young age, but there's not much choice. This is one reason I like Girl Scouts. It has lots of opportunities for dabbling. Horseback riding, friendship bracelets, making movies, camping , cooking, hiking, archery, museums overnights, pottery...... It's a range of experiences while forming bonds of friendship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I just think there's a bunch worse things teens can be up to than spending time working on a sports interest. Even if it's one that leads no where. Yup. My son is an elite-level hockey player. I could seriously see him getting a scholarship for it. His goal is to play professional hockey and work in hockey as a career. I'm willing to spend the money to help him reach his goal. But ya know what? If he never gets a scholarship or makes it to the pros (and in hockey there are lots of levels of pro, not just the NHL), I won't regret a penny I spent on him getting to follow his dream. My kid started out life in an orphanage. If he wants to go kick some hockey ass, I'm all for that. He deserves everything I can give him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateReignRemix Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 It's very much an all or nothing culture when it comes to kids sports. I can see it with gymnastics , some kids at six and goofy and cannt do a cartwheel. Others are practicing their one handed cartwheel . It's all fun and no problem , except in two years the just-for-fun kids will have NO chance at gymnastics and the really good kids will be have to choose between 3x per week of nothing. I bet some parents here who are defensive about their family lifestyle would like to not have to commit so much at such a young age, but there's not much choice. This is one reason I like Girl Scouts. It has lots of opportunities for dabbling. Horseback riding, friendship bracelets, making movies, camping , cooking, hiking, archery, museums overnights, pottery...... It's a range of experiences while forming bonds of friendship. Not ever sport requires committing heavily at a young age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProudGrandma Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 Wow....I am sorry that I started this. I am sorry that I was sort of snitty at the beginning. (however some of the responses I received were also sort of snitty...but maybe that was only as a reaction to me.) This thread was started out of frustration. But it was also aimed at school related sports...NOT competitive sports...example gymnastics. I also only see this mentality revolve around basketball, football and volleyball....all school sports. We don't have the other highly competitive sports or even other activities where I live. But after reading the responses here...the one thing that really stands out to me more than anything else is just how many families spend so much time with one thing. Their whole world (and their children's world) revolve around ONE thing...be it sports, drama, whatever. Is that REALLY healthy for anybody. What ever happened to well roundedness? And is it really ok to allow our kids to think that they are the center of the universe all of the time? My kids do things. They all play multiple instruments. The have recitals, honor's bands, and other public performances. My boys play soccer for a few weeks every spring but the furthest we drive is 30 minutes. It is NOT their whole life. I want my kids to be able to do more than one thing well. If their whole focus is basketball, for example, and my son gets hurt to the point where he couldn't play anymore, then his whole world comes crashing down around him. But if he has developed multiple talents, then he has something to fall back on if one thing doesn't work out. And, I have seen this at the HS level. It is totally devastating. That is really all I was trying to say at first...and obviously did a lousy job at it. Sorry for hurting feelings and offending anyone. NOT my intent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plansrme Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Wow....I am sorry that I started this. I am sorry that I was sort of snitty at the beginning. (however some of the responses I received were also sort of snitty...but maybe that was only as a reaction to me.) This thread was started out of frustration. But it was also aimed at school related sports...NOT competitive sports...example gymnastics. I also only see this mentality revolve around basketball, football and volleyball....all school sports. We don't have the other highly competitive sports or even other activities where I live. But after reading the responses here...the one thing that really stands out to me more than anything else is just how many families spend so much time with one thing. Their whole world (and their children's world) revolve around ONE thing...be it sports, drama, whatever. Is that REALLY healthy for anybody. What ever happened to well roundedness? And is it really ok to allow our kids to think that they are the center of the universe all of the time? My kids do things. They all play multiple instruments. The have recitals, honor's bands, and other public performances. My boys play soccer for a few weeks every spring but the furthest we drive is 30 minutes. It is NOT their whole life. I want my kids to be able to do more than one thing well. If their whole focus is basketball, for example, and my son gets hurt to the point where he couldn't play anymore, then his whole world comes crashing down around him. But if he has developed multiple talents, then he has something to fall back on if one thing doesn't work out. And, I have seen this at the HS level. It is totally devastating. That is really all I was trying to say at first...and obviously did a lousy job at it. Sorry for hurting feelings and offending anyone. NOT my intent. Oh, well, now that you explain yourself, I am pretty sure I speak for the rest of the defenders in saying that we're all convinced. Yep. Your way is the right way for everyone. Let's dabble; let's be poor-to-mediocre at a lot of things instead of excelling at one thing. That is definitely the way to go. Off to sign my kids up for three weeks of soccer so they can be well-rounded. Whew. So glad we had this conversation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProudGrandma Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 . There are lots of reasons for spending time and money on sports. Scholarships is definitely not one. If you invested all the money some families spend in hopes of a scholarship, the result is often a significant amount more than any scholarship offered. Plus, kids on scholarship essentially have full time job while going to school, commitment to the sport program comes before study. . that is a great point. I mean, one family in our area that is their "reason" for pushing sports on their kids. However, this family also enrolled their kids in sport camps thousands of miles away where they had to fly and stay in hotels...that money could have been stored away for college (of course that alone wouldn't have done much of anything...so combine it with all of the other expenses). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cammie Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I think the problem is you are coming off very judgy. If a family wants to revolve around ONE thing...and you agree with that one thing (church/religion) then is it ok? The fact that a family dedicates lots of time and resources doesn't mean that the kids think they are the "center of the universe all of the time." I think you need to accept different strokes for different folks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plansrme Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 that is a great point. I mean, one family in our area that is their "reason" for pushing sports on their kids. However, this family also enrolled their kids in sport camps thousands of miles away where they had to fly and stay in hotels...that money could have been stored away for college (of course that alone wouldn't have done much of anything...so combine it with all of the other expenses). Is it your money? No? Then what business is it of yours? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 But after reading the responses here...the one thing that really stands out to me more than anything else is just how many families spend so much time with one thing. Their whole world (and their children's world) revolve around ONE thing...be it sports, drama, whatever. Is that REALLY healthy for anybody. What ever happened to well roundedness? And is it really ok to allow our kids to think that they are the center of the universe all of the time? Are you kidding? Because we devote a lot of time to something the whole family likes, my kids think they are the center of the universe? And they do nothing else? How could you possibly know that about my family and my kids or anyone else? The assumptions you are making are so wildly off base they would be laughable if you didn't come across as so sanctimonious. I hope for your sake that your attitude isn't evident to the people you actually know in real life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProudGrandma Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 What I find frustrating is that there isn't much available to those who just want to play for fun without all the seriousness and crazy commitments. this is so true. we would be open to letting our boys play a little bit more spots...but there is NO WAY that we will commit to sitting in a school gym 4 nights a week, traveling hours for games, having them give up other things that are just as important to them...just for a sport....or other similar activity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I think kids who are deep into one activity are still doing the things most kids do. They still go to school (or homeschool), do chores, read books, have sleepovers, ride bikes, and so on. The ones I know also play music, have pets, attend their siblings' events, work hard in school, draw, collect stuffed animals, perform in a second at-school activity, etc. I don't see them as any less rounded than the many children who participate more casually in one or two activities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProudGrandma Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 ok...fine. I am sorry that you are all so defensive. I am not going to respond anymore. thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plansrme Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 ok...fine. I am sorry that you are all so defensive. I am not going to respond anymore. thank you. Wow. You have called all of our athletic children self-centered and worse, and the problem is that we're all so defensive. Mind boggled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldberry Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 About 3 years ago my DD got involved with a homeschool Science Olympiad team that takes WAY too much time for my taste. I suggested quitting after the first year, but DD found a passion, team and friendships. So be it. It's not a sport, but good grief....we spend a good two days a week on it meeting outside the home, plus study time inside the home. As a Christian, I understand the concern about managing time and I think that is valid. We manage it by making sure our spiritual priorities still take first place (no missing a meeting because we had study that day and are too tired, etc.) Our personal boundary also includes not doing anything that would interfere with our regular spiritual schedule on a regular basis. I am sure there are some families who let extra-cirriculars (which is more than just sports) interfere with spiritual and relationship priorities. But also equally sure there are some who keep their priorities in mind and continue to do it because they can and do manage it successfully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 ok...fine. I am sorry that you are all so defensive. I am not going to respond anymore. thank you. As suspected, you did not want anyone to help you understand. You wanted us to all agree with you that your vision of "family time" and how to raise children is right, and that the commitment you see to an outside activity is wrong. I am sorry we could neither agree with you nor help you understand. Next time, it might be better to just do a "JAWM" so that we would know that you are not actually interested in hearing the other viewpoint, but wanted to enjoy the view from your high horse without argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 but there is NO WAY that we will commit to sitting in a school gym 4 nights a week, traveling hours for games Then don't. But you have no business casting aspersions at families that do. Really, I'm stunned by your hubris in thinking you can know everything about other people's lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfunnybunch Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Wow....I am sorry that I started this. I am sorry that I was sort of snitty at the beginning. (however some of the responses I received were also sort of snitty...but maybe that was only as a reaction to me.) This thread was started out of frustration. But it was also aimed at school related sports...NOT competitive sports...example gymnastics. I also only see this mentality revolve around basketball, football and volleyball....all school sports. We don't have the other highly competitive sports or even other activities where I live. But after reading the responses here...the one thing that really stands out to me more than anything else is just how many families spend so much time with one thing. Their whole world (and their children's world) revolve around ONE thing...be it sports, drama, whatever. Is that REALLY healthy for anybody. What ever happened to well roundedness? And is it really ok to allow our kids to think that they are the center of the universe all of the time? My kids do things. They all play multiple instruments. The have recitals, honor's bands, and other public performances. My boys play soccer for a few weeks every spring but the furthest we drive is 30 minutes. It is NOT their whole life. I want my kids to be able to do more than one thing well. If their whole focus is basketball, for example, and my son gets hurt to the point where he couldn't play anymore, then his whole world comes crashing down around him. But if he has developed multiple talents, then he has something to fall back on if one thing doesn't work out. And, I have seen this at the HS level. It is totally devastating. That is really all I was trying to say at first...and obviously did a lousy job at it. Sorry for hurting feelings and offending anyone. NOT my intent. :confused1: to the bolded. You started out explaining why you feel the way you feel, which is fine. But the impulse to tear down the folks who do things differently is not so fine. It's great you've found what works for your family. It's great that your kids have a variety of interests. I can get that it's frustrating that the sports focus in your community doesn't match your own family's values and the way you choose to spend your time. Those are all valid ways to feel and to reflect upon your experience as a member of your community. Maybe it would help to put the shoe in the other foot: Think how you might react if someone tried to tell you that by allowing your children to play many instruments and do so many different activities you've allowed your kids to think that they're the center of the universe? You'd probably be hurt and upset and feel that folks have no right to judge the thoughtful choices you make with your family, and rightfully so. Equating focusing on sports with self-centeredness shows a lack of willingness to understand that families can make healthy choices that reflect their own values and priorities, even if those choices, values, and priorities are different from yours. Cat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Florida Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 And it's just sports...it's not music. It's not drama....it is ONLY sports. Well, I'm not sure I agree that it's only sports. Neither of my kids was interested in sports, and neither started the kind of intense activities you're talking about quite as young as you mention. However, both of my kids kept themselves -- and, by extension, us their parents -- very busy with performing arts activities for several years. I thought nothing of driving one or both of them over an hour each way for rehearsals and performances three or four times each week. I spent uncountable hours each year supervising backstage, selling tickets, ushering . . . When my daughter was 10 - 12, she sang with a choir that did a few weekend-away gigs each year. I often volunteered to drive and/or chaperone those weekends, meaning my husband would be home with our son and the pets while I was away with our daughter. When my son was nine, he was offered the opportunity to help workshop a new opera. Part of the process was that he (and, consequently, I) was housed at an arts center for three weeks. The presentation was so successful that he was then invited to travel to NYC for an additional week of rehearsal and presentations for potential backers. The production company paid for our airfare, arranged a place for us to stay and gave him a small stipend, but it ended up costing us money in addition to separating the family for a month. I don't even want to add up how much all of this cost us by the time you count up voice and dance lessons, tuition for youth theatre, costumes, tickets to see every show they were in, competition and convention fees, choreography fees, travel expenses, the gas I burned up driving them all over Florida . . . We didn't do it because we thought it might earn either one a scholarship. We did it because they loved it and were good at it. We supported their enthusiasms because we were able and willing to do so. As it has turned out, both of them ended up majoring in arts in college and are planning careers in the field. The scholarships each of them did earn based on their talents didn't come close to making up for what we spent during those years. But I feel fully reimbursed by seeing my kids grow up into happy, healthy, talented, focused adults. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiguirre Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Their whole world (and their children's world) revolve around ONE thing...be it sports, drama, whatever. Is that REALLY healthy for anybody. What ever happened to well roundedness? And is it really ok to allow our kids to think that they are the center of the universe all of the time? My kids do things. They all play multiple instruments. The have recitals, honor's bands, and other public performances. My boys play soccer for a few weeks every spring but the furthest we drive is 30 minutes. It is NOT their whole life. I want my kids to be able to do more than one thing well. If their whole focus is basketball, for example, and my son gets hurt to the point where he couldn't play anymore, then his whole world comes crashing down around him. But if he has developed multiple talents, then he has something to fall back on if one thing doesn't work out. And, I have seen this at the HS level. It is totally devastating. That is really all I was trying to say at first...and obviously did a lousy job at it. Sorry for hurting feelings and offending anyone. NOT my intent. You know, multiple instruments and public performances probably take as much time as a lot of sports, it's just that the time dedicated to the activity is done at home instead of out of the house. T really is a "well rounded" kid. She's not particularly awesome at anything, but she's tried lots of stuff and doesn't mind not being the best if she enjoys the activity or gets to spend time with her friends. That doesn't reduce our time commitment though. I have to drop her off for 10 hours of rehearsal time every weekend. I have to do my volunteer time as lunch lady and usher. Since I enjoy both of those jobs, I don't mind doing them. I get a sneak peek at the rehearsals and get to meet and greet patrons. I have to drive T to her tennis matches on Sunday afternoons but I get to visit with a friend I only see at tennis matches while we watch our girls play. Sometimes dh and the boys tag along, sometimes they don't. I sign kids in and out at the church choir rehearsals while I chill and read for 90 minutes. It's a nice life. T is strong and athletic, even if she's not a future star. She enjoys music and understands how much work goes into practicing the music for a mass or putting together a musical. She's gotten a healthy dose of not being the center of the universe by being cast as Spoon #4 or random jungle animal. It's also her chance to be on her own and not part of "that" family. It's a break for her to have time away from her brothers to just be a typical kid without having to ignore the stares. To each their own, but people probably are doing things they enjoy. You might think they're nuts, but they're having a blast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Florida Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Their whole world (and their children's world) revolve around ONE thing...be it sports, drama, whatever. Is that REALLY healthy for anybody. What ever happened to well roundedness? And is it really ok to allow our kids to think that they are the center of the universe all of the time? My kids do things. They all play multiple instruments. The have recitals, honor's bands, and other public performances. My boys play soccer for a few weeks every spring but the furthest we drive is 30 minutes. It is NOT their whole life. I want my kids to be able to do more than one thing well. One of the great gifts of homeschooling for my kids was that they had the time and scheduling freedom to pursue their multiple interests. As it happened, most of the things both of my kids were interested in had to do with performing arts. However, that doesn't translate to "one thing." Each of mine took dance lessons and voice lessons, did youth and community theatre, sang with choirs (yes, more than one for each of them), etc. They also hung out with friends, participated in church activities (each of mine ended up being a founding member of the youth group for their ages when it was time), watched movies in their PJs, had and attended birthday parties, and other totally normal kid stuff. They each had diverse interests, too. My daughter belonged to the local anthropological society for a few years and was the editor of our then-homeschool group's newsletter. At the same time that he was dancing competitively and assistant teaching classes and generally spending 15 - 20 hours a week at the dance studio, my son managed to log almost 300 volunteer hours, almost half of which were at the science museum. We made their activities family time. My son and I used to listen to audiobooks while driving, and we both have very fond memories (and jokes that only the two of us get) from sharing those books. My daughter and I sang through Broadway soundtracks, figuring out harmonies and laughing when I got them wrong. I cuddled on the couch while helping each of them run lines. I got to know their friends while supervising backstage. The "fact" (read "family joke") that Grease 2 is pretty much always on some TV channel somewhere is something we discovered while staying in motels on the road for performances and competitions, We ate a lot of meals in restaurants with other kids and parents, during which we laughed and chatted and had a chance to enjoy each other's company. We attended professional productions of various kinds and spent hours afterward discussing what we liked and didn't. I don't know. None of their involvement seems to have done any damage to our family relationships. My daughter moved 800 miles away from home last summer but calls home every couple of days and texts and/or Facebook messages me at least daily. One of the first things she did once she moved was to find a church of the same denomination in which we raised her. My son chose to attend a college close enough to allow him to come home regularly. It also means that we are able to see all of his performances. And he still calls home at least three times a week just to chat. I have no regrets about the time, energy and money we invested in supporting their enthusiasms and talents, and I don't feel like we sacrificed family time or turned them into self-centered monsters in the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 My ds was in swim for 3 years. Age 7-10. I loved the exercise.....at first it was all fine....just come to swim 3 times a week....no pressure about competition....until it changed and suddenly after 3 years they really expected you to compete....which was very expensive and very time consuming. At that same time we moved and so ds just stopped.....but I wish he could still go to class to swim 3 times a week for 45 min. I don't care what ther families do. But I don't get it. I like a more structured family life than that. And I know for my sister it did not turn out well for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Is it your money? No? Then what business is it of yours? This is a parenting board. We talk about parenting and family choices all the time. I am not sure how discussing this parenting choice is off limits? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Not ever sport requires committing heavily at a young age. Not every sport requires committing heavily at a young age, but many do, and most you must start by - what -3rd grade to be able to compete? Around here hockey is pretty big , and there is definitely a "start by age 4 or don't bother“ mentality. There is something to that -- if everyone on the team of older kids has been playing since for as long as they can remember, it shows. But talk about having to make a decision FOR your kids early, and committing to a certain lifestyle early on. I do have a friend whose son plays 2-3 nights a week and he is 5. They are happy. It's fine. The kid loves it, I'm sure. And he'll be very good. It is an odd world though. Very different from when we were kids. More specialized , more competitive, more expensive. More incredible experiences. But no room for changing your mind about your path in - say- 4th grade. In that sense it's a bit of a rat race . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeghansMom Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Wow....I am sorry that I started this. I am sorry that I was sort of snitty at the beginning. (however some of the responses I received were also sort of snitty...but maybe that was only as a reaction to me.) This thread was started out of frustration. But it was also aimed at school related sports...NOT competitive sports...example gymnastics. I also only see this mentality revolve around basketball, football and volleyball....all school sports. We don't have the other highly competitive sports or even other activities where I live. But after reading the responses here...the one thing that really stands out to me more than anything else is just how many families spend so much time with one thing. Their whole world (and their children's world) revolve around ONE thing...be it sports, drama, whatever. Is that REALLY healthy for anybody. What ever happened to well roundedness? And is it really ok to allow our kids to think that they are the center of the universe all of the time? My kids do things. They all play multiple instruments. The have recitals, honor's bands, and other public performances. My boys play soccer for a few weeks every spring but the furthest we drive is 30 minutes. It is NOT their whole life. I want my kids to be able to do more than one thing well. If their whole focus is basketball, for example, and my son gets hurt to the point where he couldn't play anymore, then his whole world comes crashing down around him. But if he has developed multiple talents, then he has something to fall back on if one thing doesn't work out. And, I have seen this at the HS level. It is totally devastating. That is really all I was trying to say at first...and obviously did a lousy job at it. Sorry for hurting feelings and offending anyone. NOT my intent. Do you make it a habit of insulting people over and over while supposedly apologizing? You say you are sorry and then you make excuses for your behavior. Stop pointing at the speck in other people's eyes and work on taking the plank out of your own. This is one of the reasons we stopped attending church in the area we live in--so be it. Our daughter participates in American Heritage Girls. She also participates in competitive swimming during the summer and will be back in voice/piano and horseback riding in March. The competitive swimming is time consuming and exhausting but she gets so much out of it. I admire families that do it with multiple children and in sports that run longer. It is hard in the modern world to have good quality time with family. I say whatever works for you, more power to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 We spend a lot of money and invest a huge amount of time so our kids can play travel hockey because we all love it. Why is that hard to understand, and why do you think you get to judge whether these families spend real time together? I think the hard thing to understand is why one would live a life that is so focused on one single aspect of the human experience. This is particularly of interest when the time cost is great and the financial cost is great. I can't go back because I'd end up spending hours on it, but the thread of WDYT 10%ers clearly demarcates the fact that a good 50% of the country, if not 80% of the country, simply cannot afford this. And yet it is clear that more than 20% of families, and definitely not the top 10% on average, are doing this. So the question is, you're sacrificing: ​Music Academic competitions Church/masjid/synogogue (I am not religious but this surprises me) Scouts Other sports All for one sport. And that is if you have one or two kids. If you have three kids, you simply cannot participate. To me, that is awe-inspiring. It's like dance. Dedicating a child's life to a single art so early on--yes, it's hard to understand, primarily because, as Scarlett points out in the first post, the amount of effort required to get a long-term payoff (scholarships, living-wage career) is incredibly disproportionate. Add in injury risk and you're basically encouraging a kid to play the lottery with their health and all other aspects of their life for 10 years or so. So yeah, I have a hard time wrapping my head around that, and again, let me emphasize, we love sport. We love the arts. We love academics. We are competitive and love games. But the idea of putting all of our eggs in one basket in terms of extra effort, no, I don't think that's easy to understand. I get if the child has a passion. But some families make really big sacrifices for this, and not just one thing. My cousin who lives in poverty spends 100% (and more) of her spare income on her daughter's year-round sports, and has since her daughter was nine. But in a way I do get it. In a country where you have the top 10% basically able to eat healthy food, have one vacation a year, not cry when a car breaks down, and send their children either to quality public schools (high property costs) or quality private schools, and buy clothes--and the other 90% are struggling on at least one of those terms, then it makes sense. It makes sense to play the lottery. Because if you're average, you're SOL. "Oh, are you average intelligence and average health? Here, how about an average lifetime salary that is only 150% of the poverty level?" People dream and they dream through their kids. So to me, that is a huge part of it. Hell, I had such a dream myself in the supermarket tonight. My daughter had composed a lovely song on the piano. I had this fantasy... maybe she'll get an arts scholarship and she won't have to go into the military... We make 3x the poverty line. :( We can't afford our EFC because this is a temporary income and our incomes are unstable. If we are dreaming, how much more are others fantasizing about this? But my perspective, editing here, is from the perspective of a family that makes serious choices with money. I don't think, "wow that kid will grow up warped" or anything. I think "holy crap if she gets an injury her senior year... having sacrificed physics club for this, my god... my god..." and this is about someone I love dearly. I think, "You have four kids and all of your entertainment is this one kid's sport. What about the other kids?" Because frankly, while one kid I do understand, when you have three or four, you just cannot. You cannot say to three kids, anyway I cannot, "You know what our family time is? No you don't get to choose, not for the next 10 years. It is going to be your sibling's tournament." And yes, I know kids in that position. In fact a neighbor from my hometown is in this position. The little one is failing grade 2 after doing poorly in grades K and 1. Why? This kid is up until 9 or 10 watching big brother's sport, which his sister cheers at. And then, to top it off, he has to be up early to get big brother to practice. They are literally sacrificing the little one's cognitive development for the oldest. Nobody has a real identity outside of that one kid. The little one is exhausted and the doc is saying more sleep and, kid you not, the woman said to my sister "but his older brother has something really special going on." So for me, when I saw the OP, I thought of stuff like that. You may not be aware of what people are sacrificing for sport in some parts of the country. Or you might, be and your kid might be on their second rotator cuff repair and your second child may have spend 20 hours a week for the past five years having family time which is dictated by a coach. And you might think, "Hey, that's cool." I don't know. I wouldn't want to be 30 and not be able to play rec basketball because of my rotator cuff which I ruined when I was 16. I wouldn't want to be the kid who spent every spare moment at my sibling's performances. I might want to be the parent who has a stellar kid. I wouldn't want to be the sibling or the kid whose start went supernova too early for a pro career or a scholarship, though. I hope that nobody here is doing that. But it is, in fact, happening. My post is directed at that, not your run of the mill swim team for one kid, horse riding for the others. Sorry for all the edits. I need to use "preview post" more often. 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ChocolateReignRemix Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Not every sport requires committing heavily at a young age, but many do, and most you must start by - what -3rd grade to be able to compete? Around here hockey is pretty big , and there is definitely a "start by age 4 or don't bother“ mentality. There is something to that -- if everyone on the team of older kids has been playing since for as long as they can remember, it shows. But talk about having to make a decision FOR your kids early, and committing to a certain lifestyle early on. I do have a friend whose son plays 2-3 nights a week and he is 5. They are happy. It's fine. The kid loves it, I'm sure. And he'll be very good. It is an odd world though. Very different from when we were kids. More specialized , more competitive, more expensive. More incredible experiences. But no room for changing your mind about your path in - say- 4th grade. In that sense it's a bit of a rat race . Only a few sports really require a heavy commitment at a young age if you have serious aspirations in them (gymnastics and other Olympic type sports) mostly because they have fewer kids participating and non-hyper competitive options are limited. However, some coaches and those who make money through some of these sports have managed to convince parents otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cammie Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 It is so funny to me that there is actually a debate about how other people choose to raise their families. I would have thought a homeschooling board would be open to the fact that not everything is right for every family and every child. The fact that other families have different priorities than your family...shouldn't really be so strange or upsetting. I don't get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 It's here, too -- mostly with hockey. Every parent who goes the league route is so sure their little precious is the next Wayne Gretzky or Sidney Crosby. :smilielol5: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 It is so funny to me that there is actually a debate about how other people choose to raise their families. I would have thought a homeschooling board would be open to the fact that not everything is right for every family and every child. The fact that other families have different priorities than your family...shouldn't really be so strange or upsetting. I don't get it. I would not call this a debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Only a few sports really require a heavy commitment at a young age if you have serious aspirations in them (gymnastics and other Olympic type sports) mostly because they have fewer kids participating and non-hyper competitive options are limited. However, some coaches and those who make money through some of these sports have managed to convince parents otherwise. I don't think it matter whether most sports "require a heavy commitment" in theory. Because in practice, kids / families who wish to participate in sports must play competitively , which means attend frequent practices , travel , pay a lot (whether coaches convinced parents of this unfairly or not). And non competitive options are very limited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I would not call this a debate. Agreed. An exchange of opinions -- even firmly held opinions -- is not a debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cammie Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I would not call this a debate. No, maybe not. I am surprised that it is an issue for someone that another family has different priorities. The debate being that she clearly feels that it is wrong and other posters clearly feel that their choices are correct for their family. Still, color me surprised that a family's lifestyle would be so upsetting to OP that she needed to "rant" about it. Merriam Websters' definition of "debate" - (one of the definitions) - : to discuss (something) with people whose opinions are different from your own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeghansMom Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 ok...fine. I am sorry that you are all so defensive. I am not going to respond anymore. thank you. Dear you are projecting. I think I know the real reason why people are not showing up for meetings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vida Winter Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 It is certainly like this where we live. Sports rule; we don't participate so we are always the odd ones out. However, I don't care about what other families do in their free time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateReignRemix Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I don't think it matter whether most sports "require a heavy commitment" in theory. Because in practice, kids / families who wish to participate in sports must play competitively , which means attend frequent practices , travel , pay a lot (whether coaches convinced parents of this unfairly or not). And non competitive options are very limited. It really depends on the area. Here there are rec options for all of the major sports (except for football) until early high school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I think the OP is frustrated that the community she had isn't functioning the way it once did. FWIW, I agree that it isn't really my job to police what other people do with their time or money, but in a church it actually is the church's job to hold one another accountable to prioritizing faith in God and corporate worship. So, in a way, I'd venture to say that the OP is trying to reconcile the conflicting feelings of having no power in watching the systems that have been in place in the church erode, and no new system in place to safeguard what may possibly be being lost/disappearing in regards to corporate worship and the sense of community that comes from the regular meeting together of the church. I have a hard time believing that other people who have been brought up within the church in North America haven't seen this phenomenon and felt at least some sense of loss over it. In the OP's particular area, the thing that seems to be the thing which is getting in the way of the continuation of the old Sunday and youth night rituals is sports. So sports are the scapegoat. I'd say that underneath it all is a restructuring of priorities as families and as a society as a whole, and that in different localities and families the cause of change may be different, but there is a shift in how we organize our lives that the OP seems to dislike and is trying to draw our attention to. FWIW, I will interject for the OP (if you happen to pop on to read) that the existence of youth night itself was/is a societal choice that is worth considering the merit of - it builds community, but I would like to posit the idea that perhaps it doesn't build the kind of community that would ideally reflect what Christ is supposed to be like, and that perhaps even something like a family being part of a sport and spending that time individually or as a family in an intentional way would be more Christ-like and affirming of Christian values than youth night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 3 of my kids played rec town soccer. It was lots of fun. Little kids met one weekend hour. It didn't get demanding until later -- about age 8/9? And it was by invitation only for the comp teams. The rec teams were still chill, but families did have to commit to a certain number of games. My kids didn't play the comp teams, so I've no thoughts there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 What I wish is that there were more opportunities than 'couch potato' and 'screaming aggressive all-star wannabe' beyond the age of 5 or 6. There just doesn't seem to be much opportunity for kids to just learn basic sports skills and have a good time with it, as opposed to getting into a seriously competitive situation. That does not bode well for physical fitness down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathnerd Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I just think there's a bunch worse things teens can be up to than spending time working on a sports interest. Even if it's one that leads no where. I could write a lot of things to explain to the OP the mentality that she is trying so hard to understand. But, others have said it all. The above quote is what I want to highlight - there are a lot of worse things for a family to do to their kids (even families where the parents and kids share all their free time under one roof harmoniously) - following their child's sports interests is not one of them. I am willing to bet that these kids don't have obesity problems, don't have health problems arising from sedentary lifestyles, know how to navigate team dynamics and do not have typical "teenage behavior issues" that we keep hearing about. Because the intensity and rigor of the physical exertion these kids make on a regular basis helps in better behavior (it has been scientifically proven that regular intense physical exercise eliminates several behavior problems in kids). And I cannot understand why someone would think that a family spending money on their child (for a healthy pursuit) is a waste of dollars. I don't regret anything I spent on my child and I never will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I've a dancer. I never planned this, but here we are. We don't do competitions, but the hours in the studio are significant. The passion is immense. We are a pretty imperfect family, however. I'm not exactly sure how I might get off this train at this point. Oh. That's because I can't. lol we try to make it work, however. I've never considered that some folks might be judging the interest of our kids. Many days, I really would really rather hunker down in my house (like always lol) , but the kids have certain desires. I'm just trying to tread water here, so cut some slack. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 We did try soccer. They have some recreation teams for that as well. But yeah it was already serious with the 5 year olds. So much so it completely turned my kid off. That stinks. The little ones in our old town played what we all call 'beehive' soccer. We parents try not to laugh, but it's really so dear and adorable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondeviolin Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 My 7yo swims. He loves it. Absolutely loves it. And the physicality of it is good for this active boy. It does stink to have three evenings taken up by practices. And that's trimmed down! His club has options for him to swim twice that. I just believe a 7yo can and should have some outside play time. And we do have a good neighborhood where friends are out roaming and playing. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Where I live, there are lots of options for kids who want to do "competition light." Serious, dog-eat-dog competition is less common here. I can't think of anyone I know personally who is on a travel sports team, though I know a few who do dance competitions. That said, competition is what it is. You either like it or you don't. If you join a team sport then you can't really complain that it is competitive. I don't love competition myself, which is why we do gymnastics and dance at The Little Gym, and we do TKD but skip the tournaments (so far), etc. However, I decided my kids would benefit from the experience of team competition, so we joined rec league soccer this past year. I couldn't believe how much fun it was, for all of us. I am glad I didn't let my personal distaste for competition prevent my kids from having that experience. I can't imagine a city not having rec level sports available somewhere, and if none can be found after a search, that's a bummer. But then again, if the organized sports teams are so selective, there must be plenty of kids left over to have pickup games once they age out of kiddy sports. That's all we had when I was a kid, and it met most people's needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I am divided about this. I have one child who I know would go this route if it was available to him. He is into karate though so there is no (as far as I know HA!) equivalent of travel teams or extra commitments. As it is, he can get pretty bent out of shape if he misses a class or we might be late. So I think I understand how parents can get drawn into major time commitments in kid sports. If the child is really driven, AND if there are a lot of camps, travel teams, if the child is very good at his or her sport, that could easily lead to a major commitment of time and money for the family. I am the aunt of a kid like this. He is a major talent regionally in his sport and has had college coaches calling their house and coming to his games since he was 12. He can run circles around boys 4 years his senior. I think his parents are very thoughtful about what it all means, and wary of him neglecting his academics, though he hasn't. But I've seen through him how sports commitments can take on a life of their own. Finally, I just want to point out that for some kids, often boys, sports is the only time they feel happy, competent, and successful. If I had a kid like that, I would be bending over backwards to work with him on improving his academic performance, but I would not stand in the way of his love. School can be an unhappy place for many boys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 If my child were REALLY into it, we would make it happen. My kids aren't into sports heavily, so it isn't a priority for us. My middle son plays league soccer but isn't that great, he just likes to have a good time and get some exercise. We have friends who live an breathe sports. It isn't our kids' thing. I have no problem with sports in general, as long as the kids WANT to do it and it is a good fit for them. I just don't like the parents pushing and pushing and investing their self worth into sports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane in NC Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Joining Catherine in feeling divided about this. Admittedly though, the thing that I see as a problem in my community is the lack of recreational sports. My now college grad had recreational options until about age ten or twelve with a variety of seasonal sports. Kids in middle and high school have to pick and choose between sports and extra curriculars given the growing academic demands they have placed upon them. I understand that. But suddenly an active 12 or 13 year old is forced to choosing a sport or two for specialization? Regarding travel teams: these too come in a variety of flavors. Those of you who reside in major metropolitan areas may find competitive teams an hour away. My nephew played on a team that represented half of his state. Practice was an hour away--games were often three to ten hours away. His sister's extra curricular options were limited by family travel for the son's sport. Now that everyone is grown and has families of their own, they don't regret their decisions but they do question their financial priorities at the time. My son knew that team sports were not his thing but he loved playing roller and ice hockey for recreation. His options were limited since most facilities promoted travel teams over recreational leagues for kids. Does travel hockey bring in more money for an ice rink? Obviously some of you live in communities with many options. In some places, state and municipal budget cuts have limited low cost choices. I think the challenge that we face as a nation is getting everyone more active. One does not have to be the best to play or enjoy a sport. That is part of the problem that we saw in small town athletics. Most of the kids here are not scholarship athletes (and if they do play in college it is usually Division III or community college), yet parents seem to believe that their child is destined for greatness. I would like to see fitness presented as the goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I think the hard thing to understand is why one would live a life that is so focused on one single aspect of the human experience. Like the OP, you are making a ton of unfounded assumptions (in this snippet and throughout your post) about other people's lives and ignoring what is actually being said. Who said their entire life is focused on one sport? Who said their kids engage in only one activity? Who said they are wealthy and don't have to make a single financial sacrifice or choice about where their money goes? Who said they drive their kids to physical injury? Who said it's only worth it if their kid gets a college scholarship? Who said their kids don't get any time to do the things that other kids do because they are single-mindedly pursuing one sport? I am the scholarship coordinator for our local youth hockey organization. Would it surprise you to know that it's in the board's bylaws that no child will be turned away due to lack of ability to pay? You know what my kids spend the overall most time on? School. Hockey has a long season, yes, but we school year-round, and if you actually add up the hours, they devote the largest single chunk of time to school. Where are the complaints about how our whole world revolves around that one thing? Care to take a guess how many non-hockey extracurriculars my kids participate in? Six. Hockey is far from the only thing in their life. My son has multiple learning disabilities/delays. Although he is good enough at goaltending that he could seriously earn a scholarship or make it into the pros (the snickering of another poster aside), he doesn't plan to go to college, so I don't give a rat's ass (as my dad would say) whether he gets a scholarship. My dd is a very good hockey player and plays at both the A and AA levels on various teams. She has told me before that she would "just die" if she couldn't play hockey. You know what else she would "just die" if she couldn't do? Read. Bake. Draw. Computer program. Write poetry. Spend time with her cat. My dd has more interests than I could count, and the reason she is not an elite-level player is not skill, it's interest. She is not interested in devoting more time to hockey than she does because it would rob time from the other things she loves. And, shockingly, we don't push her to! And lastly ... if people really insist that there are absolutely no rec sports available that don't require tons of skill and oodles of commitment, they either live in a really odd place or are looking at the wrong sports. Archery, fencing, martial arts, tennis, roller derby, baseball, shooting, BMX biking, crew, curling, track and field, lacrosse, bowling, and speed skating are all things offered in our area under the recreational/beginners welcome banner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 You know, people - families- often focus on one area exclusively. Farming is kind of a family affair, owning a business, dare I say, even church attendance can become that area of focus. Some areas cost more time and money than others. Some people have sports season tickets, some attend cultural events as families, some play travel sports with young kids. So what? It doesn't make them less christian, less moral, or less involved as a family. Time together as a family doesn't have to mean parked at the dinner table or in front of the television. Some of the best conversations I've ever had with ds are when we are driving somewhere. The car can be a valuable tool in family communication, seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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