How hard would you push on a tween/teen being made to go to Grandma's house?

[amy g.]

I would absolutely make my daughter go. The car ride doesn't sound very long to me, but then we have a long drive everywhere we go.

 

I'm not sure how old your daughter is, but I would tell her that she can quit going when she has a job that conflicts with the visits. Until then, she can suck it up and make her dad and grandmother happy.

 

I would make occasional exceptions such as "Suzy can't go this week because she has a science fair project due in the morning" or "She has a swim meet bright and early". But I would only do that when there is a legitimate conflict.

 

I think the situation would be totally different if grandma was hateful and insulting to your daughter, or if she and your husband got in violent arguments whenever they visited, but my understanding is that it is just boring.

 

If that is the case, I'd encourage my daughter to entertain herself. Bring your sketchbook, bring some knitting. Every time she asked me why she had to go, I'd say, "Because it builds character."

[QueenCat]

I see both sides here. I think there is room for compromise. 11pm is LATE, even on for homeschoolers, on that regular of a basis. Your dh is being childish by not being willing to compromise on the "how" long, how "late" part. Shortening it by just one hour would make a huge difference. I would probably insist that my child go, for the shorter amount of time, at least once out of every two times. The other time, dh could stay later if he wants. You should have as much say in this as your dh, it shouldn't be only his decision.

[I talk to the trees]

Or it could completely backfire. If her dd resents having been forced to visit her grandmother, she might very well tell her own kids they never have to visit relatives if they don't want to go.

 

I may know someone (hypothetically, of course) for whom this is true. :leaving:

 

Our situation probably differs from the OP, but the only time I make dd go to my il's house is when I go with her. I have had issues from day one with mil's safety choices (14 long years haven't shown any improvement,) and fil doesn't even seem to care that dd is in the world.  I have been the "ignored" grandchild, and will not force my child to spend time with someone who makes her feel that way.

 

In the OP's situation, I would insist that the visits be much shorter. Your dh should understand that while that may be the norm for his family, it puts a great deal of strain on your dd, and it may, as Catwoman points out, backfire on him.

[Allearia]

I would say, if he wants her to go every time, cut the visits shorter by an hour. That sounds like a good compromise to me.

[Valley Girl]

Unless the relationship is damaging in some way, I would want my kids to go because, even if the grandparents aren't a barrel of fun, I think that it's important that relatives be more than just names to kids (in my opinion, for my own life and family).

 

As far as suggestions, I think I'm mostly repeating what others have said already. As a kid, I used that visiting time to read, do crafts, etc. Enlist your DH in finding ways to include the kids. Teach the kids/grandparents to play pinochle or another long game, or start a standing Monopoly  or Scrabble tournament with the grandparents. Depending on the kids' ages, they can start working on a family tree and listen to the stories about the family long before they were born. (I did this with both sets of grandparents. It passed the time, and I treasure those stories now.) Do the grandparents keep old photo albums? Have special recipes? There are lots of ways to encourage interaction, but your kids will need your DH to encourage/initiate it with his parents. If the grandparents can't/won't interact, then I'd cut the kids' visits back to once a month. That way DH could have the long adults visit that the grandparents seem to be comfortable with, and the kids won't have to deal with the situation as often. On their visits, I'd ask DH to cut the visit short by a couple of hours "because the kids have an early day tomorrow."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

I'd meet her halfway.  I wouldn't make her go every time, but maybe 1x per month. 

[KungFuPanda]

I'd send her, but cut her some slack with her school schedule surrounding the visit. I'm usually the first to advise skipping out on toxic family events, but I'm not sure 'I just don't wanna' is the more compelling argument. Once or twice a month doesn't seem like too much of a burden on an unemployed, dependent child. I can't imagine what she'd do at home that's more valuable than investing in a relationship with extended family members.

[BigMamaBird]

If MIL is an otherwise pleasant person (not nasty and abusive to the kids) and this is REALLY important to DH, I'd support him, even if I disagreed with him.  "Why doesn't Mom have to go?" probably is going to come up at some point though.

[73349]

I would not have my kid (even a young teen) up that late on a regular basis, nor would our parents expect it. We are serious about sleep around here.

 

It sounds like the dad and grandma could very reasonably make small changes that would make this a much better experience for the girl. Dad could only take her on occasions when he's willing to leave fairly early; Grandma could come to their house once a month (if she's still working, she's still driving, yes?); one night a month could have a more kid-friendly activity like board games. Does Grandma like the movies? Or could they occasionally have their conversations while bowling or watching the kids roller-skate?

 

I don't think having to go every week and be there for hours and up too late with nothing to do falls under the umbrella of "Suck it up, Buttercup, because Granny is old." Should she have to go sometimes? Yes. And to be polite and helpful? Definitely. But she's not enjoying it, and they're not building a relationship in front of the TV, so your DH should be open to either changing the visits a bit or excusing her some of the time.

[KungFuPanda]

Could you go to half the visits, drive a separate car, and leave at a decent hour? That might be a compromise that works for everyone.

[PeacefulChaos]

Is 11pm really that late to some people?  

 

My kids have gone to bed at 9 their entire lives.  

I mean, when the boys were in school, yeah, they went to bed at 8pm.  They were also young - 4-5-6.  

When we started homeschooling,it went back to 9.

 

Actually, now, the boys don't actually go to bed until 10.  

So 11 is just :confused: to me in regards to being late.  I mean some of the PP are talking like that's the wee hours of the morning or something.  

 

 

Anyway, but I actually was commenting again because I had another thought about boredom...

Like, is being bored a really big deal?  

Why is she bored?

If the adults are talking, why can't she just be a part of their conversation?  Especially as a tween or teen, I can't see any reason why she can't just participate in the conversation.

Maybe she doesn't have to do it the whole time, but I'm seeing some suggestions that make it seem as though the ILs need to be trying extra hard to make her feel comfortable and welcome, or like they need to try to entertain her.  I don't think children need to be entertained, ever, and that they should find things to do themselves, which includes taking part in the conversation around them, not just blowing it off and calling it boring because it's stuff the grown ups are talking about.  

YMMV.

[Guest]

Anyway, but I actually was commenting again because I had another thought about boredom...

Like, is being bored a really big deal?

Why is she bored?

 

I feel the same. My kids know better than to ever say they are bored. I am not the Entertainment Director. I have said, "bored people are boring people. Fun is where you find it." I seriously do not care one jot whether or not my kids ever feel bored. Claiming boredom is just admitting that you are too lazy to come up with worthwhile tasks suitable to the environment.

 

End soapbox.

[marbel]

<snip>

 

Anyway, but I actually was commenting again because I had another thought about boredom...

Like, is being bored a really big deal?  

Why is she bored?

If the adults are talking, why can't she just be a part of their conversation?  Especially as a tween or teen, I can't see any reason why she can't just participate in the conversation.

Maybe she doesn't have to do it the whole time, but I'm seeing some suggestions that make it seem as though the ILs need to be trying extra hard to make her feel comfortable and welcome, or like they need to try to entertain her.  I don't think children need to be entertained, ever, and that they should find things to do themselves, which includes taking part in the conversation around them, not just blowing it off and calling it boring because it's stuff the grown ups are talking about.  

YMMV.

 

I'm not the OP so I don't know what kind of conversations they have.

 

The conversations at my in-laws' are mind-numblingly boring even for me.  They talk about *nothing* for hours at a time.  How can they talk about nothing, you ask?  They talk about people no one but them knows, not even their son.   Well, sometimes they talk about people my husband knew 20, 30 years ago, but has little to no memory of.   And sometimes they talk about college football, even though none of us (again, including their son) have any interest in or knowledge of it.

 

Efforts to bring the conversation around to something that might be interesting to others in the group do not work.  They just ignore it and keep talking about... nothing.  There is no way to participate in the conversation. 

 

They do not ask any of us questions. They do not want to know anything about our lives.  They don't talk about their past - as in, sharing old family stories.  That would be great.  But they don't want to talk about that.

 

They are not senile; they travel (mostly to college football games) so they are not housebound.

 

After a few hours with them I am ready to shove sharp pencils in my ears so I don't have to listen to them talk anymore.

 

So, yeah, I can totally sympathize with a teen who is bored. 

 

[73349]

Is 11pm really that late to some people?  

 

My kids have gone to bed at 9 their entire lives.  

I mean, when the boys were in school, yeah, they went to bed at 8pm.  They were also young - 4-5-6.  

When we started homeschooling,it went back to 9.

 

Actually, now, the boys don't actually go to bed until 10.  

So 11 is just :confused: to me in regards to being late.  I mean some of the PP are talking like that's the wee hours of the morning or something.  

 

Some people can calm down and go right to sleep after being out all evening. Others (including me) will be awake for hours. Some can stay up until any time as long as they can sleep in in the morning, and do fine; some will have an Utter Meltdown approximately one hour after bedtime.

 

Those of us in the thread who seem horrified likely have kids in the latter group. I cannot tell you how much of the last seven years I have spent trying to get my child to stay awake yet pleasant through dinner, go to sleep at a decent hour (I don't care to be up until 11 myself; fortunately Meltdown O'Clock for DS is now nearly 9) and stay asleep until a decent hour (i.e., after sunrise, thank you) without crying inconsolably because he's just beyond his limit. I can't tell you partly because memory is affected by sleep deprivation, actually.

 

Even when grandparents have driven 10+ hours to visit here, bedtime has only a slight wiggle to it. The good news is that the grandparents are mostly morning people, too. :)

 

If you have resilient kids for whom a good night's sleep is no big deal, I can see why being up late once a week looks like no big deal. It sounds like the OP's DD is not getting her needs met, though.

[PeacefulChaos]

Some people can calm down and go right to sleep after being out all evening. Others (including me) will be awake for hours. Some can stay up until any time as long as they can sleep in in the morning, and do fine; some will have an Utter Meltdown approximately one hour after bedtime.

 

Those of us in the thread who seem horrified likely have kids in the latter group. I cannot tell you how much of the last seven years I have spent trying to get my child to stay awake yet pleasant through dinner, go to sleep at a decent hour (I don't care to be up until 11 myself) and stay asleep until a decent hour (i.e., after sunrise, thank you) without crying inconsolably because he's just beyond his limit. I can't tell you partly because memory is affected by sleep deprivation, actually.

 

Even when grandparents have driven 10+ hours to visit here, bedtime has only a slight wiggle to it. The good news is that the grandparents are mostly morning people, too. :)

 

If you have resilient kids for whom a good night's sleep is no big deal, I can see why being up late once a week looks like no big deal. It sounds like the OP's DD is not getting her needs met, though.

 

I see.  I have always felt for those who have kids on the early to bed/early to rise schedule.

 

My entire family is nothing like that.  I was very glad to have gotten children with the same patterns as I have had my entire life (which my grandparents also have)!

[Catwoman]

Am I the only one who is wondering exactly how old Grandma is?

 

I think some of us are picturing a sweet, lonely little old lady, but I have a feeling she may not be anything like that. She's still working, she drives, and it sounds like she is also otherwise self-sufficient.

 

I think her age makes a difference here because if Grandma is in great shape and does everything on her own without assistance, there is no good reason why she couldn't arrange to be the one to go visit the OP some of the time, instead of needing others to come to her. If she insists that they go to her place, she could arrange for some fun activities to do with the kids when they visit instead of confining everyone to her apartment. They could go out to eat, or to a movie, or to the mall, or anywhere else that might be entertaining.

 

I don't know about the rest of you, but if someone is traveling to visit me, I feel it's my responsibility to try to entertain them, so if Grandma wants the grandkids to visit frequently, I think she should be putting forth some effort into making it fun. I'm not getting the impression that she is doing that. (And it wouldn't kill the OP's dh to plan some activities, either! He knows the kids are bored, so why isn't he doing something about it?)

[happypamama]

I don't think bored is necessarily a problem. I think being ignored is. I don't know how the dynamic is; maybe Grandma tries to converse with the kids, but the kids aren't interested, and so Grandma goes back to talking to the adults, or maybe Grandma largely ignores the kids. I would have a real problem with my kids being bored because nobody cares to show them that they are important. If the kids are important enough to Grandma for her to expect them to come and see her frequently, especially at personal cost (being tired the next day), then, especially since Grandma is still lucid and everything, then they are important enough for her to attempt to engage them. IMO, Grandma needs to put in the time and energy now so that if she does become frail and senile and unable to give anything back, she's made enough investments in the grandkids' emotional banks that they will have stores to give back to her. A little bored because it makes someone else happy is okay; repeatedly being sent the message that you're not as important as the tv is not, IMO.

[Catwoman]

I don't think bored is necessarily a problem. I think being ignored is. I don't know how the dynamic is; maybe Grandma tries to converse with the kids, but the kids aren't interested, and so Grandma goes back to talking to the adults, or maybe Grandma largely ignores the kids. I would have a real problem with my kids being bored because nobody cares to show them that they are important. If the kids are important enough to Grandma for her to expect them to come and see her frequently, especially at personal cost (being tired the next day), then, especially since Grandma is still lucid and everything, then they are important enough for her to attempt to engage them. IMO, Grandma needs to put in the time and energy now so that if she does become frail and senile and unable to give anything back, she's made enough investments in the grandkids' emotional banks that they will have stores to give back to her. A little bored because it makes someone else happy is okay; repeatedly being sent the message that you're not as important as the tv is not, IMO.

:iagree:

 

I hope I don't seem unsympathetic toward Grandma. I absolutely understand that she might be lonely and really look forward to those visits from her son and grandchildren. Even if she is perfectly healthy, works full time, and is completely self-sufficient, it makes perfect sense that she wants to see her family.

 

The problem seems to be that the kids aren't enjoying it and their father doesn't seem to care, as long as they get in the car and visit Grandma on the prescribed days.

 

Now that I think of it, I have been placing a lot of the blame on Grandma, but she may not even know that the kids are bored, particularly if they are polite and don't want to hurt her feelings. But Dad does know, so he should step up to the plate and do something to help ensure that the kids start looking forward to the visits instead of dreading them.

[hornblower]

This is another one of those threads that really brings home the diversity of this board.

I was thinking about this some more & I just can't get imagine a grown child with a spouse and their own children & job & their own home having to spend a huge chunk of a day every 2nd weekend with their mother. It seems so odd to me. (except in temporary situations like during illness, recovering from surgery etc.)  

I'm adding this to my list of things to warn my kids to find out about before embarking on a serious relationship with anyone.....  - non pc me is insanely curious what cultures do this because I've never heard of this other than in comedy skits about overbearing mothers of Jewish heritage & honestly, I thought those were exaggerations for comedic effect.....

As a spouse, I'd be resenting this so hard I'd be spitting nails all the way to a marriage counselor's office. As a kid, I'd be feigning nausea & migraines if necessary to get out of it....

[marbel]

<snip>

Now that I think of it, I have been placing a lot of the blame on Grandma, but she may not even know that the kids are bored, particularly if they are polite and don't want to hurt her feelings. But Dad does know, so he should step up to the plate and do something to help ensure that the kids start looking forward to the visits instead of dreading them.

 

Do you think it is really that hard to see or figure out?   I can't imagine myself as grandma and not seeing that teens would be bored out of their minds if forced to sit around my apartment for hours at a time.   I mean, barring senility, etc.  

 

Maybe I feel that way because my mom understood it.  So there's hope I will too. 

 

[Catwoman]

Do you think it is really that hard to see or figure out? I can't imagine myself as grandma and not seeing that teens would be bored out of their minds if forced to sit around my apartment for hours at a time. I mean, barring senility, etc.

 

Maybe I feel that way because my mom understood it. So there's hope I will too.

 

I'm sure you're right, but I was trying to give Grandma the benefit of the doubt, in case the kids are made to feel like they have to put on an act in front of her. For all we know, she asks the kids if they are bored and they are too polite to say yes.

 

I'm only curious about this because the dad is so adamant that the kids go with him for every single visit, so I also wonder if he has specifically instructed them on how they have to behave while they are there.

[Rebel Yell]

I feel the same. My kids know better than to ever say they are bored. I am not the Entertainment Director. I have said, "bored people are boring people. Fun is where you find it." I seriously do not care one jot whether or not my kids ever feel bored. Claiming boredom is just admitting that you are too lazy to come up with worthwhile tasks suitable to the environment.

 

End soapbox.

 

I think there is a big difference between being bored beause a child chooses not to participate in fun/productive activities and a teen being bored because there are zero options for fun or productive activities, or even conversation.

 

For the OP, it does not sound like Granny lives in a big ol' farmnhouse full of secret rooms with antiques to explore and fields for romping in for one weekend out of the summer...  but rather a small apartent full of all the relatives visiting out of obligation for an entire day every other week, with nothing of interest (or space to do it in) for the teen.

[Guest]

We just moved to another state to escape :)

 

Cultural differences were a big sticking point for us during the first five years. After 20, we've pretty much sorted it out - or rather, I've sorted out what is and isn't my responsibility regarding cultural differences.

That sounds like SUCH a great solution. I am all for it.

[Evergreen State Sue]

It takes about an hour and 15 minutes to get to MIL's house, and when DH goes, he's gone for 6-7 hours (getting home around 11 at night, so we've already had a full day here, often including an outside class), including travel time. At MIL's house, they have dinner and then just hang around the apartment talking and doing nothing much. He goes every other week, with the occasional three-week interval depending on what's going on at the time. He takes both kids, and I go when there's a special occasion or when I've missed 3-4 visits. He doesn't like it and thinks I should be with him, but this is the ONLY time I get to myself ever, and I usually need it for cleaning or doing my paid work, so I've taken a hard stand on that. 

 

 

I think your dd is seeing that you don't have to go, so why should she?  Especially if she is an introvert like you.  I think you need to set an example and go too (even your dh wants you to go) and compromise by going once a month.  When you miss 3-4 visits, that's' every two months.  So your question was "How hard would you push on making her go to Grandma's house?"  My answer would be to encourage you to go more frequently and then she could go less frequently.  I wish my children still had their grandparents to visit. 

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

Thanks everyone! You've given me loads to think about. 

 

Grandma is wonderful, truly. She's not frail and elderly--she works (but does not drive, has no need to in the city), shops, goes out with friends, etc. Her coming to visit us is not an option though, for logistical and cultural reasons. It would take her a good two hours (probably more) via public transit to get to us, which makes no sense when we can go in and see her in just over an hour. Also, it just isn't done, culturally. 

 

11 p.m. is actually not that late for this DD. The real problem is more the late travel time, the late hour arriving home, the fact that we've already had a full day before we even left, and usually the next day is co-op for us, which means we need to be up at 7 a.m. Weekend nights aren't an option due to DH's schedule. She is definitely bored there, because it is a small city apartment, and any cooking is done before we get there. Grandma does pay plenty of attention to them, but it's more of the "What can I get you to eat?" variety. Stories and such do come up naturally, but not every time. The conversations mostly revolve around people the kids don't know, or the things Grandma shopped for that week, or things that happened at work, or whatever. Simple things, but yeah, dead boring for kids! Also, DD is just at that age, IYKWIM. Everything is boring. She doesn't do crafts or like board games or puzzles, really. (That's a whole other thread I've been meaning to post, actually.) There's no place to go around Grandma's house, and the neighborhood isn't safe enough for DD to go to the store or anywhere else on her own. The kitchen is minuscule, so there's no communal cooking to be done, and no chores they can do together. Grandma doesn't knit or anything, so that's out. It really is just getting together to eat and sit and talk for hours. Of course, youngest DD is thrilled enough with the near-unlimited device time that none of this matters to her.

 

I agree that my not going is probably affecting her, but my going more often just isn't going to happen, or my sanity will suffer. Literally. I homeschool, work part-time, manage the whole house and pretty much everyone in it, manage our entire social schedule, garden 5-6 months of the year (something that's very important to DH too), am on our co-op board, teach a teen class of my own, and am struggling with some health problems. DH goes to the gym in the morning, leaves for work at 9 a.m. and come home at 9 p.m. That's it. I'm completely on my own, and without those few hours by myself a couple of times a month, I'm not going to make it. And as I mentioned, I actually use that time to do my own paid work or clean or do home improvement projects anyway, so it's not as if I'm home really relaxing for six straight hours. Although I have family nearby, I can't rely on them much for this kind of thing, so those visits to Grandma are my only time by myself, ever. I've given up every other aspect of my life to homeschooling and family--I can't give this one too. While I do think DD is entitled to the occasional free pass from Grandma visits, her reasons for staying home are not nearly as compelling as mine! Also, because of his work schedule, it's extremely rare for DH to be at my family functions. No one even thinks twice about that, including him. Technically, it is MY work that's making it difficult for me to be at HIS family functions too. It took me a long time to see that, but that's my reality. 

 

I don't really even think DD needs to stay home every other visit. I just think it would be nice if DH could give her a pass every once in blue moon. It seems kind of unfair to me that he gets to decide when he's too tired to go, but when he's up to it, they have to be up to it too. I think if I leave the issue alone for a little while and then broach it again on a non-visit day, he might be more amenable to adjusting expectations a bit. He's having a hard time adjusting to some other aspects of her getting older as well, and we've been having some talks about those things too. I'm trying hard to help him protect his relationship with her as we enter these difficult years. He grew up in a houseful (really, a building-full) of rowdy, street-savvy boys, so some things he does and says and expects from her don't match up to sensitive teen girl needs and capabilities. Plus, this kid is a really good kid--she does her schoolwork, she does any chores we assign to her, she's kind and caring, she's not snotty, she's dealing with some difficult friend stuff right now, and she's handling it very maturely... He's always saying how proud he is of her, so it's not like she's a PITA in general and is just adding this to the list. I think that should work in her favor!

 

I'll talk to DH more about maybe shortening the visits, or leaving a bit earlier, and about engaging the kids more. I think that's a really good point, that it's partly his responsibility to make sure they actually connect with Grandma too. I don't think the kids need to be engaged every minute, but yeah, at the end of a long day, it's kind of hard to be trapped in someone else's apartment for many hours, with nowhere to go and nothing to do. 

 

OK, I think I hit most of the important points, as far as I can remember! Again, thank you. You made points that hit home with me, on both sides of the issue. I do agree that family is very important, and my MIL, while still energetic and sprightly, is definitely used to having more family around, pretty much constantly. And the family has suffered a deep loss in the past two years that makes it even more important to honor this need. Hopefully we can find some way to make it work better for everyone.

 

[QueenCat]

 

 

I agree that my not going is probably affecting her, but my going more often just isn't going to happen, or my sanity will suffer. Literally. I homeschool, work part-time, manage the whole house and pretty much everyone in it, manage our entire social schedule, garden 5-6 months of the year (something that's very important to DH too), am on our co-op board, teach a teen class of my own, and am struggling with some health problems. DH goes to the gym in the morning, leaves for work at 9 a.m. and come home at 9 p.m. That's it. I'm completely on my own, and without those few hours by myself a couple of times a month, I'm not going to make it. And as I mentioned, I actually use that time to do my own paid work or clean or do home improvement projects anyway, so it's not as if I'm home really relaxing for six straight hours. Although I have family nearby, I can't rely on them much for this kind of thing, so those visits to Grandma are my only time by myself, ever. I've given up every other aspect of my life to homeschooling and family--I can't give this one too. While I do think DD is entitled to the occasional free pass from Grandma visits, her reasons for staying home are not nearly as compelling as mine! Also, because of his work schedule, it's extremely rare for DH to be at my family functions. No one even thinks twice about that, including him. Technically, it is MY work that's making it difficult for me to be at HIS family functions too. It took me a long time to see that, but that's my reality. 

 

 

Your first line in this paragraph says it all. Compelling reasons to not go are in the eyes of the beholder. Why is it okay for you to skip the sanity suffering yet not for your daughter? Because you are busy? You don't have a lot of "down" time? Most parents don't. I do understand the need for it but not to the point where my child's needs are second to mine. You are setting the example here. Let her stay home when you stay home, and have her go when you go. The likelyhood of resentment continuing to build up is immense in this situation, and is likely to get worse if you continue with "you have to go but I don't mentality".

[happypamama]

Yes, after reading that, I would focus my efforts on getting DH (and helping him, if need be) to help the two generations interact. It sounds like maybe Grandma is trying but just isn't quite sure how to relate. Any chance someone can get her a tablet or computer, and she and the kids can Minecraft or whatever together? (How great would that be, to have memories of playing video games with your grandmother?!) Or could DD teach Grandma to knit or crochet, and then they could make blankets or hats for the needy or newborns or something?

[marbel]

Your first line in this paragraph says it all. Compelling reasons to not go are in the eyes of the beholder. Why is it okay for you to skip the sanity suffering yet not for your daughter? Because you are busy? You don't have a lot of "down" time? Most parents don't. I do understand the need for it but not to the point where my child's needs are second to mine. You are setting the example here. Let her stay home when you stay home, and have her go when you go. The likelyhood of resentment continuing to build up is immense in this situation, and is likely to get worse if you continue with "you have to go but I don't mentality".

 

I am finding this to be true as my kids get older - and I'm sure my kids are not unique in this regard.  As they mature and observe more of life, they see inconsistencies and are not shy about pointing them out.  Sometimes it is those inconsistencies, when left unaddressed and unresolved, that create rebellion in teens.

 

(Speaking generally of course and not assuming anything about the OP's daughter; just speaking from my own observations and experiences.)

[maize]

Mandatory socializing is no fun for an introvert. The two extroverts don't understand; that's normal, but it doesn't negate the legitimate needs of the introvert. I would compromise and let her skip out on occasion; a once a month visit with grandma can still build a relationship.

[Aura]

There's no reason for her to feel guilty about not going. None whatsoever.

 

If the dd is just being inconvenienced, then she can suck it up and go. If there's other issues--like not being able to handle staying up that late and then getting up early the next morning--then that's another story. Culture does not get an automatic pass, IMO, and I say that coming from a multicultural family. My dh grew up where the kids were expected to do EVERYTHING asked of them, no matter what.

 

 

I adamantly oppose the idea that mom needs to be present just to satisfy the kids desire for her to be there. I don't think kids get to just skip out of obligations because mom doesn't go...mom is an adult and has different needs and responsibilities. Kids can and should learn that. Dad should be backing mom up so it's not a matter of, "Mom just doesn't want to go."

 

 

Mom shouldn't be made to feel guilty for needing some time alone. Kids should learn that mom has needs, too, and that includes having some time alone, even if they don't fully understand. You don't have to fully understand something to acknowledge that someone has particular needs and to be respectful of them. That's something kids should learn at a young age, IMO.

 

 

[Joanne]

I would not have my kid (even a young teen) up that late on a regular basis, nor would our parents expect it. We are serious about sleep around here.

 

It sounds like the dad and grandma could very reasonably make small changes that would make this a much better experience for the girl. Dad could only take her on occasions when he's willing to leave fairly early; Grandma could come to their house once a month (if she's still working, she's still driving, yes?); one night a month could have a more kid-friendly activity like board games. Does Grandma like the movies? Or could they occasionally have their conversations while bowling or watching the kids roller-skate?

 

I don't think having to go every week and be there for hours and up too late with nothing to do falls under the umbrella of "Suck it up, Buttercup, because Granny is old." Should she have to go sometimes? Yes. And to be polite and helpful? Definitely. But she's not enjoying it, and they're not building a relationship in front of the TV, so your DH should be open to either changing the visits a bit or excusing her some of the time.

 

This. A few times a year, yes. Quarterly, yes. Even once a month.

 

But, no, I don't think the demand or expectation of every other week for the 2 decades of childhood is a "suck it up, buttercup" situation.

[JFSinIL]

Could you send a couple board games with them next time?  Wonder how Grandma's take to Monopoly (etc.) - they would all have to interact with something to do if they played a board game.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

Your first line in this paragraph says it all. Compelling reasons to not go are in the eyes of the beholder. Why is it okay for you to skip the sanity suffering yet not for your daughter? Because you are busy? You don't have a lot of "down" time? Most parents don't. I do understand the need for it but not to the point where my child's needs are second to mine. You are setting the example here. Let her stay home when you stay home, and have her go when you go. The likelyhood of resentment continuing to build up is immense in this situation, and is likely to get worse if you continue with "you have to go but I don't mentality".

 

My kids have to do a lot of things I don't have to do. It's part of them being children and me being an adult. DD would also tell you she feels strongly about, and has compelling reasons to avoid, showering more than once a week or wearing anything but her pajamas, ever. She still has to shower and dress on a regular basis. On the flip side, as an adult, I get to do lots of things that she doesn't get to do, like watch R-rated movies, stay up until 2 a.m., and so on. She may not like it, but we are the parents and she's the child. We have a longer-term perspective that she isn't capable of yet, so we can decide whether things like spending time with Grandma are important. My relationships with my grandmothers are already built. Hers are being developed now, as is her relationship with her father and her father's culture.

 

And again, I'd like to point out that when I stay home from these trips, I'm WORKING. I'm not sitting in my room surfing Pinterest for hours, which is what she's rather be doing. I cannot work when the kids are with me--I'm distracted, and suddenly I'm charging the wrong people's credit cards, sending emails with sensitive information to the wrong clients, etc. This is work I can only do alone. On non-Grandma weeks, I cobble together time by staying up late, most often falling asleep on the couch after an hour of work is done. On Grandma weeks, I get to spend a large chunk of time knocking out a lot of my work, and considering that I don't want to be working, and that my work is what's keeping this family afloat at the moment, I can't and don't feel guilty about it. DD does understand that, and she doesn't resent my not going. She simply wishes she could stay home too. I'm working to create some flexibility in that area, but in the meantime, her desires don't negate my actual NEEDS. 

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

Could you send a couple board games with them next time?  Wonder how Grandma's take to Monopoly (etc.) - they would all have to interact with something to do if they played a board game.

 

DD wouldn't be interested in a board game anyway. DH and youngest DD and Grandma would all play, and oldest DD would still be parked in a chair with her laptop. At home she only plays games with us under duress *sigh* I'm trying to think of some things that would make it more fun for her, but I'm not coming up with a whole lot. I'm going to hand that off to my DH, I think. If he feels that it's very important for her to be there, he needs to be in charge of making it more enjoyable for her. Honestly, just engaging her in conversation would probably be best, but that means he'll actually have to work to make the conversation more appropriate for a young teen!

 

You know, it also just occurred to me to talk to DD about what might make it better for her  :unsure:  I haven't wanted to discuss this much with her because it's such a sensitive topic for DH, but there's no reason I can't ask about or throw out some options for improving the experience while also working at the problem from the other end too. Duh!

[Joanne]

Is 11pm really that late to some people?  

 

My kids have gone to bed at 9 their entire lives.  

I mean, when the boys were in school, yeah, they went to bed at 8pm.  They were also young - 4-5-6.  

When we started homeschooling,it went back to 9.

 

Actually, now, the boys don't actually go to bed until 10.  

So 11 is just :confused: to me in regards to being late.  I mean some of the PP are talking like that's the wee hours of the morning or something.  

 

 

Anyway, but I actually was commenting again because I had another thought about boredom...

Like, is being bored a really big deal?  

Why is she bored?

If the adults are talking, why can't she just be a part of their conversation?  Especially as a tween or teen, I can't see any reason why she can't just participate in the conversation.

Maybe she doesn't have to do it the whole time, but I'm seeing some suggestions that make it seem as though the ILs need to be trying extra hard to make her feel comfortable and welcome, or like they need to try to entertain her.  I don't think children need to be entertained, ever, and that they should find things to do themselves, which includes taking part in the conversation around them, not just blowing it off and calling it boring because it's stuff the grown ups are talking about.  

YMMV.

 

I'm not a parent who believes kids need to be entertained - not by me, grandparents, or other adults. My kids learned that when they say "I'm bored", I hear "give me a chore to do."

 

But given what adult conversations are, I think that expecting a child - even a teen or near teen - to "join in" on the typical adult conversation is unrealistic. Adult conversations about people, work, and other stuff is BORING and frankly exclusionary.

 

 

 

[Joanne]

DD wouldn't be interested in a board game anyway. DH and youngest DD and Grandma would all play, and oldest DD would still be parked in a chair with her laptop. At home she only plays games with us under duress *sigh* I'm trying to think of some things that would make it more fun for her, but I'm not coming up with a whole lot. I'm going to hand that off to my DH, I think. If he feels that it's very important for her to be there, he needs to be in charge of making it more enjoyable for her. Honestly, just engaging her in conversation would probably be best, but that means he'll actually have to work to make the conversation more appropriate for a young teen!

 

You know, it also just occurred to me to talk to DD about what might make it better for her  :unsure:  I haven't wanted to discuss this much with her because it's such a sensitive topic for DH, but there's no reason I can't ask about or throw out some options for improving the experience while also working at the problem from the other end too. Duh!

 

Hm. As an introvert, assuming I *had* to go, here is what I'd do.

I'd make a "Grandma's house" pile. I'd pile up introverted stuff I could do while in the presence of others. Books I plan to read only when there, affirmations, journaling, goals and planning, maybe a life mapping notebook, a prayer/meditation journal. I'd find a way to reframe the demand, and I'd look forward to the time to do these things while hanging near people who love me.

 

Maybe dd can come up with a similar idea, specific to her life?

[Joanne]

{{{NWAF}}}}

You are being very gracious and open in this thread. Please, you don't have to defend to us not going. Even if you WEREN'T working, using the trip to grab  some "me" time is valid, and healthy self care.

 

Making an idol out of "family time" or continuing the expectation of maternal sacrifice is not one of the Western culture's positive psychology traits.

[QueenCat]

My kids have to do a lot of things I don't have to do. It's part of them being children and me being an adult. DD would also tell you she feels strongly about, and has compelling reasons to avoid, showering more than once a week or wearing anything but her pajamas, ever. She still has to shower and dress on a regular basis. On the flip side, as an adult, I get to do lots of things that she doesn't get to do, like watch R-rated movies, stay up until 2 a.m., and so on. She may not like it, but we are the parents and she's the child. We have a longer-term perspective that she isn't capable of yet, so we can decide whether things like spending time with Grandma are important. My relationships with my grandmothers are already built. Hers are being developed now, as is her relationship with her father and her father's culture.

 

And again, I'd like to point out that when I stay home from these trips, I'm WORKING. I'm not sitting in my room surfing Pinterest for hours, which is what she's rather be doing. I cannot work when the kids are with me--I'm distracted, and suddenly I'm charging the wrong people's credit cards, sending emails with sensitive information to the wrong clients, etc. This is work I can only do alone. On non-Grandma weeks, I cobble together time by staying up late, most often falling asleep on the couch after an hour of work is done. On Grandma weeks, I get to spend a large chunk of time knocking out a lot of my work, and considering that I don't want to be working, and that my work is what's keeping this family afloat at the moment, I can't and don't feel guilty about it. DD does understand that, and she doesn't resent my not going. She simply wishes she could stay home too. I'm working to create some flexibility in that area, but in the meantime, her desires don't negate my actual NEEDS. 

 

For an introvert, which you said your dd is, it may be a NEED, not a just a desire, to not have to socialize for that long. I do get that adults and children don't always have the same privileges..... that wasn't the point. And I do get that there isn't always room for or a need to let our children have or not have everything they feel compelled about but this situation, as you describe it, goes much further than pajama wearing. I hope you don't live to regret what could actually cause your dd to grow away from instead of closer to her grandmother.

 

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

I'm not a parent who believes kids need to be entertained - not by me, grandparents, or other adults. My kids learned that when they say "I'm bored", I hear "give me a chore to do."

 

But given what adult conversations are, I think that expecting a child - even a teen or near teen - to "join in" on the typical adult conversation is unrealistic. Adult conversations about people, work, and other stuff is BORING and frankly exclusionary.

 

 

 

I agree, and I AM an adult :lol: Both sides of my extended family are large, and as a kid, my cousin and I spent lots of time around those kinds of conversations. We were never expected to participate in or even sit nearby and listen to those conversations. If we were bored, we were told to go play, and we did. My cousin and I spent hours together and are like sisters. At this Grandma's home, there's no place to go play and nothing to go do, and only a younger sibling (with whom DD doesn't have a "go play" kind of relationship, unfortunately) to do anything with. 

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

For an introvert, which you said your dd is, it may be a NEED, not a just a desire, to not have to socialize for that long. I do get that adults and children don't always have the same privileges..... that wasn't the point. And I do get that there isn't always room for or a need to let our children have or not have everything they feel compelled about but this situation, as you describe it, goes much further than pajama wearing. I hope you don't live to regret what could actually cause your dd to grow away from instead of closer to her grandmother.

 

 

I do understand this. I am that introvert. Even more so than my DD is, really (which is so very difficult for my DH to comprehend). However, even introverts have to suffer through some things for the sake of living a richer life, and for the sake of others. Homeschooling and being with my children nearly 24/7 are the most difficult things I've ever done in my life. I don't take my DDs to co-op every week or run a literature/social group for teen girls or spend 8 hours on holidays at my MIL's or suffer through teen sleepovers because I enjoy it. I do it because it's important for my children and my husband, and for me too, to a certain degree, even if it's often difficult for me.

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with kids learning that, while it's important to protect ourselves as much as possible, it's also important to give something of ourselves to our loved ones as well. What kind of family would we have if we couldn't do that? Not one I'd want to live in. 

 

I'm not worried about her relationship with Grandma. I am a little worried about her relationship with her dad over this, but that is his prerogative, and I'm working on addressing that aspect of it. 

[QueenCat]

I do understand this. I am that introvert. Even more so than my DD is, really (which is so very difficult for my DH to comprehend). However, even introverts have to suffer through some things for the sake of living a richer life, and for the sake of others. Homeschooling and being with my children nearly 24/7 are the most difficult things I've ever done in my life. I don't take my DDs to co-op every week or run a literature/social group for teen girls or spend 8 hours on holidays at my MIL's or suffer through teen sleepovers because I enjoy it. I do it because it's important for my children and my husband, and for me too, to a certain degree, even if it's often difficult for me.

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with kids learning that, while it's important to protect ourselves as much as possible, it's also important to give something of ourselves to our loved ones as well. What kind of family would we have if we couldn't do that? Not one I'd want to live in. 

 

I'm not worried about her relationship with Grandma. I am a little worried about her relationship with her dad over this, but that is his prerogative, and I'm working on addressing that aspect of it. 

 

Which is why my initial suggestion was a compromise. Have her go sometimes but not always. On those sometimes, especially if you cannot be there, come home an hour earlier. It sounds like your dh is the one who needs to work on compromise. Just because one is an adult doesn't mean one shouldn't have to compromise to make things better for one's child. I think  you do "get" that, let's just hope your dh does before it's too late.

[Gil]

Twice a month visits to grandparents isn't a big deal--especially since Grandmas culture is expecting more and DH is already making a sacrifice and compromise.

You said that the visits were already viewed as "insufficient" so your husband has already made a compromise for many years by doing a visit every-other weekend, sometimes every 3 weekends.

 

 

Sorry, but as a guy who lets his kids visit both grandmas regularly because I think that family relationships are important enough to endure boredom, I would make my kid suck it up and I would do my best to make it work. I expect a kid to be able to entertain themselves during those 2 days a month, even if they were long.

 

I would re-arrange her schedule those 2 days a month so that my kid is better rested when they arrive to see grandma. Send them with a book, a tablet, some homework, a snack, and a couple of movies. But send them. I would talk to my husband about ideas for things that the kids can do with grandma. Maybe buy a cookbook or something from Grandmas culture and have DD request lessons.

 

Maybe have the kids learn a few words from Grandmas language, or study her birthplace. Does grandma know any of the old hand clapping games from her culture, could she teach the kids?

 

Find old pictures and ask grandma to tell them a story about them. I would give the kids a couple of conversation starters.

Once in a while, you should really put in the effort to invite Grandma (and the extended family since its likely that they are going to be visiting with grandma also) to our place and make sure that they have a good time.

 

Sorry, I'm with the dad. Get your tween/teen butt in the car, 2x a month and go see your grandparents. I'd try and make it as palatable as possible, but the end result is the same: Butt meet car. Car meet road. Road take us to grandmas.

 

[Gil]

double post

 

[Jyhwkmama]

Isn't she old enough that she does not need that much care?  If so, then your needs and her desires are completely separate issues. You could both say home and you could still get your work done.

 

My vote is for once a month for her. You do not want to make her resent going to see her grandmother.

[Jean in Newcastle]

If one child is able to entertain herself with devices, I don't know why the other one can't.  It sounds like they aren't required to sit in silence with nothing to do.  

[SKL]

I actually don't agree that kids don't benefit from listening in on adult conversations.  I think a lot of learning about the world happens during that activity.  The kid should bring something for her eyes and hands to do that leaves her ears free, and sit quietly where they can listen to what's going on with the extended family and whatever else the grandparents feel like talking about.

[Catwoman]

I actually don't agree that kids don't benefit from listening in on adult conversations. I think a lot of learning about the world happens during that activity. The kid should bring something for her eyes and hands to do that leaves her ears free, and sit quietly where they can listen to what's going on with the extended family and whatever else the grandparents feel like talking about.

:iagree:

 

My ds14 has participated in adult conversations since he was quite young, and I think he has benefitted tremendously from it, as it has made him very confident and comfortable expressing his views to people of all ages. He has also learned a lot from the discussions.

 

I think that including kids and teens in adult conversations is probably more important than having them mainly interact with their peers because they can gain a far wider perspective on all sorts of issues and topics.

[marbel]

I actually don't agree that kids don't benefit from listening in on adult conversations.  I think a lot of learning about the world happens during that activity.  The kid should bring something for her eyes and hands to do that leaves her ears free, and sit quietly where they can listen to what's going on with the extended family and whatever else the grandparents feel like talking about.

 

It really depends on the adult conversation.  If it's just gossip and small talk, then it's just boring.  

 

My kids participate in a lot of good, useful adult conversations.  They have more contact with adults than with kids their age.  But their grandparents are another story.  There is nothing to learn from their conversation - but I've beaten that dead horse already in this thread.  

[QueenCat]

:iagree:

 

My ds14 has participated in adult conversations since he was quite young, and I think he has benefitted tremendously from it, as it has made him very confident and comfortable expressing his views to people of all ages. He has also learned a lot from the discussions.

 

I think that including kids and teens in adult conversations is probably more important than having them mainly interact with their peers because they can gain a far wider perspective on all sorts of issues and topics.

 

Mine have too, and I think it is a good thing. I just see relationship issues in this particular case, being a child and her father, built on not recognizing the needs of an introvert. Hence, the need for compromise from all parties.

[Catwoman]

Mine have too, and I think it is a good thing. I just see relationship issues in this particular case, being a child and her father, built on not recognizing the needs of an introvert. Hence, the need for compromise from all parties.

:iagree:

 

I was speaking generally, and I absolutely agree with you that the father needs to be more sensitive to his kids' needs, instead of just setting rules and forcing everyone to follow them.

 

I found it particularly annoying that the dad thinks it's fine to cancel a visit if he is feeling tired, but apparently the kids are permitted no such excuses.