Christmas puppy help

[Supertechmom]

We have finally decided to get a puppy now that the fence is up. It's been long enough without a dog in the house.   Hubby though is in sticker shock over the price of dogs lately.  1000.00 for a lab, 1200 for a golden doodle mix, even the hounds are $800 and up. (all of those used to be yard dogs that everyone had!)  I found several that would work until he saw the price tag. :glare: I am out of luck trying to find a puppy of any kind under 400.00 for *Christmas*

 

 

 

Breeds we are considering:

Danes, mastiffs, hounds, labs, retrievers

 

Breeds that are out:

any thing "toy", small breed, pits, boxers,chows, German shepherds.

 

 

If you know of a neighbor or friend that has some puppies that aren't made out of gold.....could you pm me?

 

Thanks

 

 

*really considering getting two puppies. (Southeast USA area)

[mom2myboys]

Would you consider a rescue puppy? We rescued our dog as a puppy from Adopt-A-Stray.org. 

[hornblower]

Rescue from a shelter or private rescue group. Check www.petfinder.org

I'd expect to pay 1200 & up for a pup from a reputable breeder & the breeders that are reputable usually have wait lists.  Don't support byb's or puppy mills!  This is aCdn site but explains well where to find a dog & what to look for in a reputable breeder if you choose to go that route. http://www.nopuppymillscanada.ca/where.htm

& think hard about whether xmas it the right time. For some families it is  because they're home & give a pup attn. For many pups & families, xmas is an overwhelming time with too much chaos.


(edited to dd the link for no puppy mills canada. )

[Supertechmom]

Possibly... the  two I talked to "preferred to place dogs in homes without children so all the attention could go to the dog"    So I was going a different direction. 

[hornblower]

Possibly... the  two I talked to "preferred to place dogs in homes without children so all the attention could go to the dog"    So I was going a different direction. 

 

many rescues adopt to families. We do. Some rescues don't. Occasionally we have dogs that can't go families with young kids because the dogs are scared of children. There are thousands of dogs up for adoption though.

 

We do screen families carefully because a lot of dogs end up in shelters because families with young children get too busy & dump the dog.  People who've had dogs before & know what it's like  can demonstrate stability are ok though.

 

 

Oh  - & Even dogs that are a bit out of your area can be transported. There are transport volunteer drivers & also Pilots N Paws.

Also, contact the breed clubs & find out if there's a breed rescue operating in you area. Odds are there is.  I have a pb English Setter from rescue in the US (I drove down to get him)

[Ellie]

We have finally decided to get a puppy now that the fence is up. It's been long enough without a dog in the house.   Hubby though is in sticker shock over the price of dogs lately.  1000.00 for a lab, 1200 for a golden doodle mix, even the hounds are $800 and up. (all of those used to be yard dogs that everyone had!)  I found several that would work until he saw the price tag. :glare: I am out of luck trying to find a puppy of any kind under 400.00 for *Christmas*

 

 

 

Breeds we are considering:

Danes, mastiffs, hounds, labs, retrievers

 

Breeds that are out:

any thing "toy", small breed, pits, boxers,chows, German shepherds.

 

 

If you know of a neighbor or friend that has some puppies that aren't made out of gold.....could you pm me?

 

Thanks

 

 

*really considering getting two puppies. (Southeast USA area)

 

 

It's a crazy world when a mixed-breed dog (poodle-Golden Retriever) sells for more than a pure-bred dog. :huh:

 

[Pawz4me]

*really considering getting two puppies. (Southeast USA area)

 

Please reconsider.

 

Even very experienced dog trainers don't do two pups at once.  They have the knowledge and skills to do it, and the experience to know NOT to do it.

[Laura Corin]

Our breeder won't sell puppies for Christmas - she fears that her puppies will be abandoned/mistreated/neglected after the excitement has died down.  I'm not at all suggesting that you would do that, but not everyone is responsible.  She tries not to breed her dogs for that time frame, or she holds onto the puppies a little longer.  She's not alone amongst responsible breeders, so you might want to reconsider your timing in order to have more choice.  Perhaps you can give the promise of a puppy for Christmas.

 

L

[linders]

Please, please consider a rescue dog. I'm in the Southeast, and there are so many dogs that are turned in for a variety of reasons. Wonderful dogs! Our current dog was 3 when we got him, beautiful dog, beautiful manners, left at the pound when owner lost job. 

 

There are many rescue agencies that specialize in certain breeds, so you can choose a breed you want. The dogs are often in foster care where they are well-socialized and just waiting for a forever home.

[Carrie12345]

We rescued our puppies from a rescue that focused on puppies 9 years ago when our kids were 2, 3, and 7.

The rescue was great, the puppies were great, the kids were happy.

Trying to train two puppies with small kids in the house?  Nightmare!

[Spryte]

Another vote for using a rescue.  We used petfinder for one dog, and for another we went to the SPCA.  Both are fantastic dogs.  Every dog we've owned has been a rescue.  

 

FWIW, I agree about Christmas not being optimal - for the reasons above, and also there are so many little bits of ribbon, paper, plastic etc that a small pup can eat.  I would worry.  What about wrapping up puppy care items and fun things, and then taking a trip to get the pup when the tree is down and the holidays are over?  

 

 

[zoobie]

Many reputable breeders will not do "Christmas puppies," and the good ones generally have waiting lists. A $400 or less purebred dog from a breeder is going to be a breeder mill puppy. You need to look at rescues for that price. Adopt A Golden Atlanta is a good golden retriever rescue, and they adopt out to surrounding areas or would refer you to a good organization near you. We've adopted two through them. They will adopt to families with children, but they are thorough in their screening.

 

Echoing others--two puppies is a bad idea for training and bonding with the pups. Especially two litter mates.

[Saraswati]

Consider working with your local greyhound adoption group - greyhounds are wonderful dogs, and come already trained! Bonus! 😊

[Dory]

When I was breeding cockers, I wouldn't allow people to buy 'Christmas puppies'.  I would allow them to get a big picture of the pup and all the gear and put that under the tree and then come and get the puppy after the chaos of the holidays was done. Christmas can just be super hard on a brand new puppy. It's overwhelming for them to leave the litter, be put in a new home, and have so much going on at the same time. It often doesn't end well.

 

A reputable breeder won't let a pup go then. If they do, I'd be concerned about the breeding quality they had.

 

I also encourage people not to get two pups at a time. I advised to give at least 6 months in between. The pups bond better with the family and are easier to train if they have those few months between them.

[gingersmom]

Double the puppies, double the vet bills.

[J-rap]

I would consider looking for a pup that is just a plain ol' mutt.  We have had much better luck with them (behavior-wise).  Plus, they are much cheaper.

[Mama Geek]

I have had a dog all of my adult life and a good percentage of my childhood.  It wouldn't bother me in the least to get a puppy for Christmas and we got our current dog as a puppy when dd was 4 months old.  As a kid we adopted from shelters as an adult we bought from "back yard" breeders for $400-$600.  When looking for a puppy we trusted our gut about the people selling them and so far we have had happy healthy dogs, well socialized dogs.  We take the time to train our dogs and they do become a part of our family.  My point is you can get a good dog from a "backyard" breeder", you can get a dog when you have young kids, and you can get one at Christmas and end up with a well trained, adjusted dog.  I personally wouldn't want to do 2 dogs, but that is because I do know how much effort goes into training them and taking care of them.  We  kept a friends dog for a week that was the same age, size (about 70 lbs each) and temperament as our dog at the time.  They were both older, well trained, and settled.  That week was still enough to convince me that 1 dog was enough.  They weren't bad it was just a lot more work.

[Cera]

At that price you need to be looking for a rescue or an "oops" litter from a family.

[bettyandbob]

You may also want to consider a young dog who is no longer a puppy. Rescues in my area usually charge $200-$300. Most do a home visit and interview. Additionally, when we got our dog, we visited him at his foster home for an extended period so they could see my dc interact with him.

[Dory]

In my saying a good breeder wouldn't send home a Christmas puppy, I wasn't trying to say only to get from high end breeders. If you do your research there are a lot of dogs that need homes that come from less then stellar places. You'll know when you connect with the dog. I was trying to say that the high standard is not to bring a pup into chaos. I really, really encourage people to give the puppy things at Christmas and get the puppy after the chaos is done. If you want the puppy right at Christmas, please consider having a quiet, stay at home kind of Christmas.

[Saddlemomma]

I prefer mutts.  They always seem so much calmer and more sensible.  There is a lot of inbreeding going on with purebreds.  I always look for German Shepherd crosses.  They have been the best tempered dogs for us.  I check our local rescues, or local classifieds.

[Flowing Brook]

We sell Standard poodles. I am not saying you are like this at all. Our experience is that if we let a dog go for under five hundred dollars it does not get treated right.

 

Funny story. We took a male back that it did not work out with the people.  We needed to find  a home for him we did not care about the money. So we listed him for what we paid for his expenses.  No one would buy him people would call and ask what was wrong with him. We insisted he was perfectly healthy and we just wanted him to get a good home. We finally got tired of either people who wanted a yard dog or people who thought there were something wrong with him. We raised the price three hundred dollars and sold him to a good home that week.

 

As a general rule people who won't pay for a dog don't give it a good home. At least that's been our experience. Please no one get offended. I know there are exceptions to every rule. This is just our experience. I am answering from my prospective why we as breeders charge so much. Plus if you breed right it costs a lot. Some litters we just break even.

 

 

 

[Plink]

In my experience, 6 weeks is no where near enough time to get in touch with most breeders and arrange for a pup, regardless of whether it is Christmas time (and I agree about this being the worst time of year) or not.  In my area, many litters are spoken for before the dogs are even bred.  

 

Check out the breed specific rescues as some have mentioned earlier.  Generally, they do a great job of getting as much health and background information from the previous owners as possible, and because they deal only with that one particular breed, they can give you fantastic information about the breed's health and training needs so that you can determine whether it would be a good match for your family.  

 

My favorite purebred dogs have been adopted at older ages.  It is fantastic to skip the chewing/whining/peeing everywhere stage.

[hornblower]

We sell Standard poodles.......

 

Plus if you breed right it costs a lot. Some litters we just break even.

 

Honestly, the reputable breeders lose money.  For them, it's a hobby, not a business.

 

Once you do all the baseline testing (hips, elbows, eyes) & any genetic testing required for your breed, transport to & from the best mate (or freeze & ship sperm), vet care for the bitch, deworming & first shots for the puppies, there frequently isn't any money left over.

 

And that's assuming an uncomplicated birth & not an emergency delivery or c-section. Plus you have to be ready for any dogs that you bred which come back & deal with any medical costs for them.

 

I hope you're not breeding any more given that your dog's illness is already causing you financial troubles.

 

 

 

 

[AimeeM]

If you aren't wedded to a puppy, I would suggest finding a breed specific rescue.

 

Otherwise, well, sometimes you get what you pay for. If you find an incredibly cheap breeder, you may very well end up with a less than quality bred pup, with a host of very costly issues.

[AimeeM]

Please, please consider a rescue dog. I'm in the Southeast, and there are so many dogs that are turned in for a variety of reasons. Wonderful dogs! Our current dog was 3 when we got him, beautiful dog, beautiful manners, left at the pound when owner lost job. 

 

There are many rescue agencies that specialize in certain breeds, so you can choose a breed you want. The dogs are often in foster care where they are well-socialized and just waiting for a forever home.

See, when we were looking for a rescue GSD or Mastiff, there was not ONE gsd or Mastiff rescue willing to adopt a dog to a family with children under 12. Not one. Even if the dog had no known issues with children. 

Don't hate me for saying it, but we've had nothing but terrible luck getting dogs from shelters/pounds. We've done twice, and it ended badly both times.

Now, if she can find a breed specific rescue that will adopt to her family with children, I definitely encourage that.

[AimeeM]

 

Many reputable breeders will not do "Christmas puppies," and the good ones generally have waiting lists. A $400 or less purebred dog from a breeder is going to be a breeder mill puppy. You need to look at rescues for that price. Adopt A Golden Atlanta is a good golden retriever rescue, and they adopt out to surrounding areas or would refer you to a good organization near you. We've adopted two through them. They will adopt to families with children, but they are thorough in their screening.

 

Echoing others--two puppies is a bad idea for training and bonding with the pups. Especially two litter mates.

Exactly.

Unless you end up hitting a serious stroke of luck. We ended up being contacted by a trainer who had a client who turned over her 12 week old GSD; a dog who had been bred as a service animal for an autistic little girl... who turned out to be terrified of dogs. The breeder wouldn't take him back, I guess, and the trainer needed a home for him. Excellent lines, papers, etc. She only wanted a $350 rehoming fee, to reimburse her (the trainer) for the food, etc, and to ensure an invested home. Obi (our new GSD) is excellent. 

All that to say this - don't be wedded, OP, to Christmas. Give yourself time to keep your eyes and ears open.

Find local trainers, and give them a call - ask them to let you know if they run across any (insert breed of choice) in need of a good home; offer to provide vet references. Our trainer frequently runs across dogs that she is hired to train, but that sometimes end up surrendered to her, or completely just LEFT with her (owner will hire her for boarding/training, and just leave the dog). Often these dogs have NOTHING wrong with them that a bit of consistent training wouldn't fix.

[texasmama]

I volunteer for a local Humane Society that recently had two Labradoodles surrendered by the owner.  They were gorgeous, young, healthy dogs - six month old puppies, in fact.  Don't rule out the Humane Society as a source for a dog.  They do get purebreds there.  The price to adopt at the shelter I volunteer at is $285 for a dog that has been there less than a week (it goes down the longer they are there).  They are tested for disease, treated for fleas, microchipped, given all shots and spayed/neutered prior to leaving.

[Pawz4me]

A $400 or less purebred dog from a breeder is going to be a breeder mill puppy.

 

Not necessarily.

 

My Shih Tzu cost less than that, and he came from one of the best show breeders in the U.S.  Both his parents and many of his other ancestors are AKC champions. His parents and several generations back have been health tested for everything a Shih Tzu should be tested for and then some.  His breeder has been an active member of the American Shih Tzu Club for decades.  In short, about the polar opposite of a puppy mill.

 

OTOH, I'm guessing that on those awful puppy mill websites the Shih Tzu puppies would be around $1,000 and up.

 

Price doesn't always mean much.

[Spy Car]

Honestly, the reputable breeders lose money.  For them, it's a hobby, not a business.

Yep.

 

Once you do all the baseline testing (hips, elbows, eyes) & any genetic testing required for your breed, transport to & from the best mate (or freeze & ship sperm), vet care for the bitch, deworming & first shots for the puppies, there frequently isn't any money left over.

 

And that's assuming an uncomplicated birth & not an emergency delivery or c-section. Plus you have to be ready for any dogs that you bred which come back & deal with any medical costs for them.

And yet, as I mentioned in the other active thread, it is the people who invest money, time, and thought into dog breeding (and the people who support such efforts by purchasing from responsible breeders) who are often held in distain in today's very strange dog-culture.

 

BTW, the OP should know that most responsible breeders and rescuse organizations hate the idea of "Christmas puppies," and for pretty good reasons generally speaking.

 

Bill

[Catwoman]

Not necessarily.

 

My Shih Tzu cost less than that, and he came from one of the best show breeders in the U.S. Both his parents and many of his other ancestors are AKC champions. His parents and several generations back have been health tested for everything a Shih Tzu should be tested for and then some. His breeder has been an active member of the American Shih Tzu Club for decades. In short, about the polar opposite of a puppy mill.

 

OTOH, I'm guessing that on those awful puppy mill websites the Shih Tzu puppies would be around $1,000 and up.

 

Price doesn't always mean much.

:iagree:

 

Even top show breeders often sell puppies at reasonable prices, because many absolutely adorable and perfectly healthy pups aren't "show quality."

[hornblower]

Yep.

 

 

And yet, as I mentioned in the other active thread, it is the people who invest money, time, and thought into dog breeding (and the people who support such efforts by purchasing from responsible breeders) who are often held in distain in today's very strange dog-culture.

 

BTW, the OP should know that most responsible breeders and rescuse organizations hate the idea of "Christmas puppies," and for pretty good reasons generally speaking.

 

Bill

 

Is there really that much disdain for breeders? Honestly, among the rescuers I know, it's not true. Many of us know excellent breeders, & those involved in breed rescue work with breeders closely. When a pb dog comes in, everyone is always scrambling to find the breeder. Reputable breeders don't  waste time - you tell them one of their dogs is in a shelter & they grab their keys to come and get it. Unfortunately we have a whole bunch of breeders (incl kennel club registered) who pump out sick puppies & won't lift a finger to help any of their dogs once they've collected the money.

 

I know several long time rescue volunteers who themselves have chosen to purchase pup from a reputable breeder. Many of us have 'heart breeds' - breeds we love and want to see continue. That won't happen if we don't have reputable breeders continue those lines.

 

But to be fair, I also have friends who are firmly in the 'don't breed or buy while homeless animals die' camp. I see their point too. I've never had to work in a shelter & kill healthy animals by the dozens at the end of each day. I think that would probably change things for many of us. Most rescue peeps though recognize that reputable breeders are not the problem, since animals from reputable breeders are not clogging up shelters & rescues.

 

Honestly though, I do find it hard to find reputable breeders, which for me means: stand by all the animals they produce, do all health checks prior to breeding, carefully plan breedings, have low coefficients of inbreeding (CoI)  & don't breed for extreme, unhealthy physical characteristics. 

[mamaraby]

See, when we were looking for a rescue GSD or Mastiff, there was not ONE gsd or Mastiff rescue willing to adopt a dog to a family with children under 12. Not one. Even if the dog had no known issues with children.

Don't hate me for saying it, but we've had nothing but terrible luck getting dogs from shelters/pounds. We've done twice, and it ended badly both times.

Now, if she can find a breed specific rescue that will adopt to her family with children, I definitely encourage that.

That was our expierience when we tried to adopt a dog from the local human society and from several rescues. Only one would allow families with children to adopt a dog and their wait-list was a year or more for dogs that often had health problems or other special needs.

 

We tried for six months to find a dog that a resue would allow to be adopted by a family before we gave up. It was incredibly frustrating. We bought a puppy. Yes, it was more expensive and the process was another several months down the road. I'll adopt cats, but I'll never again try to adopt a dog.

 

I agree with the other advice received - just one puppy at a time and maybe wait until after the holidays. Taking care of a puppy is like having a baby. Best to make sure you have the energy/time to take care of the dog. :0)

[itsheresomewhere]

That was our expierience when we tried to adopt a dog from the local human society and from several rescues. Only one would allow families with children to adopt a dog and their wait-list was a year or more for dogs that often had health problems or other special needs.

 

We tried for six months to find a dog that a resue would allow to be adopted by a family before we gave up. It was incredibly frustrating. We bought a puppy. Yes, it was more expensive and the process was another several months down the road. I'll adopt cats, but I'll never again try to adopt a dog.

 

I agree with the other advice received - just one puppy at a time and maybe wait until after the holidays. Taking care of a puppy is like having a baby. Best to make sure you have the energy/time to take care of the dog. :0)

Ours too.  We chose to find a breeder who had an excellent record.  Ours was reasonable priced and exactly cheaper than some of the rescues. 

 

If you do go through a rescue- research them to the fullest.  We have had ones near us busted for false vet records and selling sick puppies.   

[Spy Car]

Is there really that much disdain for breeders?

Oh I think so, absolutely, yes.

 

Even Pawzs (who has an active history in rescue) expressed a concern she might get flamed for "not being against" buying from a responsible breeder. We have largely become a "oh, it's not a rescue???" culture.

 

Many cities, including my own, are doing their utmost to destroy the activities of ethical breeders though onerous laws while irresponsible so-called "back-yard breeding" fills the void.

 

Honestly, among the rescuers I know, it's not true. Many of us know excellent breeders, & those involved in breed rescue work with breeders closely. When a pb dog comes in, everyone is always scrambling to find the breeder. Reputable breeders don't  waste time - you tell them one of their dogs is in a shelter & they grab their keys to come and get it. Unfortunately we have a whole bunch of breeders (incl kennel club registered) who pump out sick puppies & won't lift a finger to help any of their dogs once they've collected the money.

 

I know several long time rescue volunteers who themselves have chosen to purchase pup from a reputable breeder. Many of us have 'heart breeds' - breeds we love and want to see continue. That won't happen if we don't have reputable breeders continue those lines.

The more knowledgeable people are the more they understand what you're saying.

 

But to be fair, I also have friends who are firmly in the 'don't breed or buy while homeless animals die' camp. I see their point too. I've never had to work in a shelter & kill healthy animals by the dozens at the end of each day. I think that would probably change things for many of us. Most rescue peeps though recognize that reputable breeders are not the problem, since animals from reputable breeders are not clogging up shelters & rescues.

The problem is you've got people who are legitimately traumatized by the horrors of irresponsable pet ownership (including gut-wrentching euthenasia rates in shelters) allied with truly radical groups like PETA and the Humane Society of the United States (which want to end pet ownership completely) driving public policy and setting municipal laws and policies. With a single-minded fixation on trying to "fix" the pet "over population" problem, it it the most responsable owners and breeders who are hurt, while those causing the problems in the first place multiply in the vacuum. It is not a good situation.

 

Honestly though, I do find it hard to find reputable breeders, which for me means: stand by all the animals they produce, do all health checks prior to breeding, carefully plan breedings, have low coefficients of inbreeding (CoI)  & don't breed for extreme, unhealthy physical characteristics.

That is were it is on us (as dog owners and good members of society)to do our homework prior to getting a dog. Spending the time and money to support the sorts of breeders (whose habits you outline) is our responsibility. We vote with our time and dollars on what sort of a world we want to live in. That includes who and what we support in the canine world.

 

Bill

[Ellie]

I volunteer for a local Humane Society that recently had two Labradoodles surrendered by the owner.  They were gorgeous, young, healthy dogs - six month old puppies, in fact.  Don't rule out the Humane Society as a source for a dog.  They do get purebreds there.  The price to adopt at the shelter I volunteer at is $285 for a dog that has been there less than a week (it goes down the longer they are there).  They are tested for disease, treated for fleas, microchipped, given all shots and spayed/neutered prior to leaving.

 

You're not implying, of course, that "labradoodles" are purebred?

[Ausmumof3]

I haven't read the thread but would you consider buying the dogs needs for Christmas and then looking for the actual dog afterwards. There are likely to be dogs needing rehoming afterwards and you will have more time to deal with it settling in etc after Christmas is over.

[Ellie]

My mother bred, at different times in her life, toy and miniature poodles, boxers, and cocker spaniels. She was immensely careful to breed for quality, health, temperament, and everything. She interviewed carefully people who wanted to buy  puppies to be as sure as possible that they would be good owners. If I wanted a purebred dog, I might go to a breed rescue (which is how I came to have my cutie patootie French bulldog), but there aren't rescues for all breeds. And if I want a specific breed, I might go to a breeder because I want a dog that actually looks like that breed, KWIM? Many of the Frenchies I see on the rescue site are really poorly bred...including mine. Clearly his original owner did not try to breed frenchies that came close to the breed standard (and who probably shouldn't have had dogs at all: my Wrolf was used for breeding until he was about 5yo, then put out on a chain in the back yard where he lived for the next 5 years until his rescue.  :cursing: Although his face is endearing, it is lopsided and his tongue always hangs out. Frenchies aren't supposed to look like that. And he is even more heat sensitive than is common, because his whole face is not right. ).

 

There is nothing wrong with owning a purebred dog. That so many people treat their dogs badly such that the dogs end up on pounds is so sad, but it does not mean that we cannot buy purebred dogs.

[bettyandbob]

You're not implying, of course, that "labradoodles" are purebred?

 

She didn't say that at all. Where I live labradoodles cost more than many purebreds. They are the "in" dog to have in my area.

[zoobie]

Not necessarily.

 

My Shih Tzu cost less than that, and he came from one of the best show breeders in the U.S. Both his parents and many of his other ancestors are AKC champions. His parents and several generations back have been health tested for everything a Shih Tzu should be tested for and then some. His breeder has been an active member of the American Shih Tzu Club for decades. In short, about the polar opposite of a puppy mill.

 

OTOH, I'm guessing that on those awful puppy mill websites the Shih Tzu puppies would be around $1,000 and up.

 

Price doesn't always mean much.

You're right. I shouldn't have generalized solely on price. The best golden breeders we researched weren't the most expensive. I would still avoid breeders who advertise their litters based on low prices (versus finding one based on reputation and relationships with the community). A sub-$400 Christmas puppy found six weeks out doesn't seem like it would come from a resposible breeder.

[texasmama]

You're not implying, of course, that "labradoodles" are purebred?

Um, no.

 

Just suggesting that many desirable breeds (or crosses) may be found at the Humane Society. I think most people knew my intent. Labradoodles are quite popular and desirable to many people.

[texasmama]

She didn't say that at all. Where I live labradoodles cost more than many purebreds. They are the "in" dog to have in my area.

Exactly. Thank you.

[hornblower]

total tangent but the guy who 'invented' labradoodles really regrets it.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/canine-corner/201404/designer-dog-maker-regrets-his-creation

 

"Today I am internationally credited as the first person to breed the Labradoodle. People ask me 'Aren't you proud of yourself?' I tell them 'No! Not in the slightest.' I've done so much harm to pure breeding and made so many charlatans quite rich. I wonder, in my retirement, whether we bred a designer dog – or a disaster!"

I finished my interview with him by asking if he has ever kept a Labradoodle as a pet. "No way!" he told me in a shocked tone of voice. "My dogs are Labrador Retrievers – Rocky and Jazz. I only ever bred 31 Labradoodles. I'm on a pension and live in a little shoebox flat. If I'd gone into breeding Labradoodles for a living, I'd be on easy street. But there was no way I'd do it. My conscience wouldn't let me.""

[Laura Corin]

It is worth reading about the Australian Labradoodle, which was a conscious attempt in the 1980s to breed a non-shedding service dog for people with allergies. It was bred from existing breeds in order to express particular characteristics. I think of it as a breed in the making. The characteristics become more stable with each generation. My dog had three litters. Every puppy had a non-shedding fleece coat.

 

Many breeds came from crossbreeding. The short nose of the King Charles comes from crossing with Pugs. The modern bulldog also has pug blood.

[hornblower]

Yes, but if you see my post above, the guy who started the whole labradoodle project thinks it was a disaster.

& it didn't create anything remotely hypoallergenic....

[Laura Corin]

Yes, but if you see my post above, the guy who started the whole labradoodle project thinks it was a disaster.

 

& it didn't create anything remotely hypoallergenic....[/quote)

 

I did read it and I agree that the fashion for crosses between poodles and labs has led to some really nasty behaviour. But I just don't see why it seems to upset some people so much that an honest attempt might be made now, as in the past, to work out a new breed.

[Plink]

I think the reason for the upset is that there is no need for the cross. Poodles are fantastic service dogs without any alterations. They are widely known for being one of the smartest and easiest to train breeds. They have one of the longest lifespans too. All that the lab adds to the mix is the word lab, which is popular, while the word poodle is not.

[hornblower]

yes, & one of the biggest issues it's caused is an explosion of greedy breeders creating 'designer' breeds & selling them for ridiculous amounts of money to insanely gullible people.
 

schnoodles

puggles

cockapoos

chiweenies

havadoodles

 

give it stupendously silly name, breed them like crazy & rake in the dough. Bonus points & $$$ if you stick the term "teacup" in front of it.

I have nothing against mutts. As I said, I have 2.. Breeding them on purpose makes me pause.  (mostly because there are enough ooopsies & so many dogs dying in shelters that I really can't be convinced that we need this).

Breeding them on purpose in the horrific conditions of mills & clueless byb's just makes me livid.

Legitimate outcrosses is something that many breeds really need to consider. The documentary Pedigree Dogs Exposed highlighted some of the real problems arising from line breeding & closed stud books. Several breeds desperately need an outcross to one of the foundation breeds to bring some vitality back.

[Flowing Brook]

Honestly, the reputable breeders lose money.  For them, it's a hobby, not a business.

 

Once you do all the baseline testing (hips, elbows, eyes) & any genetic testing required for your breed, transport to & from the best mate (or freeze & ship sperm), vet care for the bitch, deworming & first shots for the puppies, there frequently isn't any money left over.

 

And that's assuming an uncomplicated birth & not an emergency delivery or c-section. Plus you have to be ready for any dogs that you bred which come back & deal with any medical costs for them.

 

I hope you're not breeding any more given that your dog's illness is already causing you financial troubles.

 

 

 

 

 

Not to argue but I know plenty of reputable breeders that make money. They have one or two females and their own stud. The dogs are very well taken care of and the breed occasionally to help pay a few bills. Its a hobby plus a way to supplement their income.

 

Slightly off topic but I wanted to share. I was worrying insanely too much about Willow. I found out this week that her care worst case scenario is going to be very minimal. So should she be found to have a genetic condition I will have her spayed asap. Anyways either way  she's not going to break the bank:).

 

Right now she's running around like a wild hyena. Which is a good sign as it indicates she probably has the bad bacterial infection and not the auto immune issue. 15 more days and we will know for sure:) At any rate it's good to have my puppy back and not have her acting like she's a 10 year old dog. Now to catch up on some training to correct  the incredibly spoiled dog she's become due to her illness:)

[ondreeuh]

We used Craigslist to find a rescue event at a local pet store. A couple litters had been flown into town to be adopted. At 12 weeks old, they had already been spayed/neutered and had their first 2 sets of shots, plus deworming & microchip. The $250 fee felt very reasonable. The downside is that we don't have any history other than it's probably a lab mix. I'm sure it wasn't intentionally bred because there is no market for puppies in the village and they were shipped out before they were shot or drowned. Our puppy joins a 4-5 year old Husky mix who is wonderful with her. She tolerates a lot but then puts the puppy in her place when she's gone too far. I can't imagine two puppies - that would just be pure craziness as there would be no "good example."