Turned 18 and kicked out?

[Spryte]

If a young person under 24 is estranged from their parents, there is a little known and little used option to get a waiver for financial aid without having been formally emancipated prior to age 18.

 

Basically you get a form from the financial aid office and swear that you are not receiving support of any kind from mom or dad and that you are estranged. I have helped a lot of people fill out this form while volunteering for an organization that helps formerly homeless young people go to college. It is called a dependency override and if the student isn't living with parents and meet certain other criteria, they qualify in the homeless or unsupported minor classification. The level of documentation needed varies based on the financial aid administrator at the college, IME most are pretty sympathetic.

 

 

 

Yes.  Thankfully this option is available.  This is how I received financial aid for school.  I cannot remember what it was called in the 90s, when I was in school, but basically I had to declare independence.  A good peer counselor in the financial aid office can help students with this.  I am still grateful that this option was out there.  

ETA: I had to move out the day I graduated HS, just short of 18, and am very familiar with what kids in this position feel, and what they do to cope.  Fortunately, I had friends and other family to help while I saved money for my first apartment.  It took me 4 years of working 2 full time jobs to go back to school, which I did, and succeeded, but I am very aware that there was a lot of luck involved in how it all played out for me.  And I had advantages that others didn't have.

[Joanne]

I have never been personally aware of a child being kicked out based on age alone. It seems very odd, and I hope, very rare.

 

It is also not "easy" to kick out a child or ANY person living in you home. If they want to stay, they have legal standing to do so.

 

I think the FAFSA arrangement is wrong on so many levels.

 

 

[Lisbeth]

Uhm, I left home at 18. My son got kicked out at 18, although he had to come back at age 20 to help us nanny a "bonus" baby. I really do not think it is a big deal if the kiddo has the ability to become self sufficient. I see it no differently than parents who do not pay for college vs. those who do, parents who do not pay for cars vs. those who do, etc. Bottom line, our goal as a parent is to eject kiddos, at some point, from our wallets. Parents do this in a multitude of different ways.

 

I will say, it is probably easier to survive, and more socially acceptable, to be an independent 18 year old in the MidSouth.

 

There is no way I would take an ejected kiddo into my home without talking to mom and dad first, just in case there is more to the story. I would also be meeting parents in person and get ID. I know of a woman who was bamboozled by a stray teen who set up a fake parent. Drug addicts are masters of their craft.

He *had* to come back to help with a new baby? Maybe I am misunderstanding? How exactly did that go down? Dumbfounded.

[Dad 4 Boys]

I can't even fathom how parents, unless there are extreme circumstances, can arbitrarily "kick" their children out of the house at a certain age.  Why would you want to force your children into that situation?  They have the rest of their lives to be wholly independent.  Why not nurture them and help them transition into that independence at a pace that fits them?  At 18, most people have approximately 50 work years ahead of them before retirement is legitimately a possibility.  I turned 50 this year, and I certainly don't want to rush my children into fully independent adulthood just because they've turned 18.  To me that seems almost like handing down a sentence to them.  I can imagine in a lot of these situations it creates a huge gap between the parents and children and potentially sets the stage for lifelong alienation.

[Garga]

Uhm, I left home at 18. My son got kicked out at 18, although he had to come back at age 20 to help us nanny a "bonus" baby. I really do not think it is a big deal if the kiddo has the ability to become self sufficient. I see it no differently than parents who do not pay for college vs. those who do, parents who do not pay for cars vs. those who do, etc. Bottom line, our goal as a parent is to eject kiddos, at some point, from our wallets. Parents do this in a multitude of different ways.

 

I will say, it is probably easier to survive, and more socially acceptable, to be an independent 18 year old in the MidSouth.

 

There is no way I would take an ejected kiddo into my home without talking to mom and dad first, just in case there is more to the story. I would also be meeting parents in person and get ID. I know of a woman who was bamboozled by a stray teen who set up a fake parent. Drug addicts are masters of their craft.

 

 

Ooo.  You need to tell us more.  This is so intriguing.  

 

I moved out at 19 when I got married.  I had a full time job at NSA, but no way could I afford bills for a modest apartment on my own.  (This was before cell phones and PCs and such, and I still couldn't afford it.)  If my friends hadn't been in college, I'd have wanted to be roommates with them.  I was graduated from hs by the time I was 17.5 and would have moved out the next day if I could have.  (Probably couldn't have signed contracts, though.)  I wanted out of my house to be on my own, even though my parents were always good to me.

 

Nowadays, if a kid wants to go to college, the costs are crazy-high, even more than back in 90 when I graduated.  If you kick a kid out at 18, then they'll have to get a job and room with someone and defer their education for a long while.  That's a crummy thing to do to a kid. Our economy is veeeery different now than it was when I was young.

 

And, as another poster asked, what do you mean he had to come back to nanny a bonus baby?  If he was independent, why would he come back to your house?  Or did you hire him and he went to his own home at night?  But then, didn't he have a job?  Did he quit his job to work for you?  Or was he homeless and living off others until 2 years went by and you let him come back in if he provided free child care (for r&b and food maybe.)  Did he go to college?  How'd he pay for it?  Again, the world is different now.  I could get a nice entry level job in 90 and work my way up without a college degree, which is what I did.  But today you can't do that.  You can't get a nice entry level job w/o a degree nowadays.

 

Why would a 20 year old man want to act as a nanny unless the pay was good?  Was he so destitute that being a nanny to his younger sibling was a step up?  Did you pay him?  So intriguing.  You can't just post this and not give details!   :)

[EndOfOrdinary]

I'm sorry to laugh at your expense, but from "knowing" you on the boards, I can barely imagine you have a dh like this. :D opposites attract. ;)

Dh likes to think he is liberal, and compared to some of his relatives he is. It never was that big of a deal until it came down to the actual act of parenting a kid who could talk. It was fine for Ds to hypothetically want his ears pierced, but then he actually did it. Now Ds want shiny little earrings and there go all the various fears showing up in Dh. Though part of him knows shiny earrings will not make our son gay, part of him is still VERY worried. "It just isn't what boys do!"

 

Part of Dh knows that helping our son navigate the costs and emotional issues with college will strengthen our relationship and hopefully save Ds from stupid financial decisions which could really cause problems later. But the "that's not how it's done" side of him is still in there. I think this might be how a lot of parents feel. It is like they are on autopilot from how they were raised.

 

The teen years will be interesting! You are right opposites attract....and my father loves Dh....supposedly he "fixed" me.

[mamato4]

I don't have time to read through all the posts so you can ignore me if someone has already mentioned it.

 

My first reaction would be to take the poor boy and help him out.  But I've just experienced how a person on drugs can be really amazing actors (not saying he is on drugs, but you don't know the whole story.)  My nephew was arrested last December (2nd time) and the times I've talked to him since while he was in "rehab" shows how easily they can fool people with the "nice boy next door" act. I did worry and made sure my girls were never by themselves with him.

 

Can you try to talk to the mom and find out more?

 

 

[guilfordlake]

 

ETA- the one that really gets me is when the teen has to leave because mom or dad can't be bothered now that they are remarried or the new spouse is pressuring them to kick out the kid. Anyone who lets someone push out their child is beyond my desire to even try to understand them.

 

This happened to one of my high school friends.  I didn't want to ask too many questions about what was obviously a painful topic but my understanding was that the stepmother decreed my friend must leave the home immediately upon graduation.  And my friend's father, for whatever reason, did not stand up for his daughter, in part, according to my friend, because the house was in the stepmother's name.  My friend did ok, but I always thought that must have been so scary, having no safety net and having to provide for yourself whether you are ready or not.

 

Observing that situation play out, made a huge impact on me.  It is very important to me that my children know they have a safe place to live and parental support as long as they need it, as much as we can provide it.

[Elisabet1]

I'm shocked that anyone at all thinks this is okay for a kid who is still in school who is not also a danger to the household in some way. Kids in college usually still technically maintain a residence "at home" - are they "allowed" to come home in the summer? What about for holidays? How do any parents expect to maintain a good relationship with an adult child that they caused to become homeless?

 

This is just so foreign to me. I went to a college without a summer session, where you were required to live in a dorm for your first two years. If I had not been allowed to come home, I wouldn't have had anywhere to go. The money I made in the summers would not have covered both rent and food, honestly. I didn't have a car. I would have ended up on the streets if my parents had not kept feeding and housing me for part of the year. I guess it would be a lovely story if I'd been able to be suddenly self-sufficient, but I spent my high school years up to my ears in AP classes and academics and I did not have as many life skills. There's only so much time in a kid's life, after all. I moved out for good right after college, the summer before I turned 21.

I absolutely do not think what they did is likely ok. BUT..I have a daughter with a mood disorder who will run off and then claim she was kicked out. She was never kicked out and never has been. As a result, I have grown to have a different take on it. If it is confirmed that they simply threw him out as soon as he turned 18 because they could, then they are rotten people. If the parents deny it while he insists it happened, then I guess we just won't know. It is hard to tell. I lived with my grandparents when I was very little, and then foster care. And then back with my parents, and then back to foster care. I know I was in foster care 3 times, I don't really know the time line from when I was little. I just remember being there and I know I lived with my grandparents many times including just a little while before I went in to foster care the last time. My mother maintains now that I was a drug addict who ran away. Not true at all. I have never even experimented with drugs, not even marajuana. My foster parents are on my FB page, not my bioparents. So I know bad parents will lie. But with recent experiences with my daughter, I now kind of wonder when someone says something..sort of a he says she said, only we don't even have the other side in the story of this 18 yr old.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

My son got kicked out at 18, although he had to come back at age 20 to help us nanny a "bonus" baby.

 

Oh! I just thought of a way this would make sense. Was he the father of the baby, and needed help with his child which you gave but only on the condition that he lived at home and learned to be a good father?

[Lovingparent]

Ok, I do not ask this to be sarcastic or to make a point. I am genuinely curious. If people want to kick their kids off their houses and their wallets, as soon as they are 18, why have kids to start with? They do tend to be worse on the wallet earlier in their lives. 

Disclosure : I do come from a culture that kicking your kid out at 18 would be unfathomable, unless they did something terrible. I do find the story of the OP very heartbreaking. We live in a high COL area too. I just do not think an 18 year old could survive here, he would probably be homeless. What a sad way to start your adult life.

[Cinder]

Minnie posted about the situation with her ds in another thread. Found it--here.

 

Hey, Minnie, hope you don't mind that I linked it.

[LucyStoner]

IIRC from a previous thread, minniewannabe kicked out her son at 18 because he was smoking. He came back at 20, with his girlfriend, to care for his new baby sibling. Minnie and her husband helped them both go to college and now the couple is married and he's a physician. That's what I remember anyways.

[Sdel]

If a young person under 24 is estranged from their parents or wholly self supporting, there is a little known and little used option to get a waiver for financial aid without having been formally emancipated prior to age 18.

 

Basically you get a form from the financial aid office and swear that you are not receiving support of any kind from mom or dad and that you are estranged. I have helped a lot of people fill out this form while volunteering for an organization that helps formerly homeless young people go to college. It is called a dependency override and if the student isn't living with parents and meet certain other criteria, they qualify in the homeless or unsupported minor classification. The level of documentation needed varies based on the financial aid administrator at the college, IME most are pretty sympathetic.

 

 

Umm...that doesn't actually work unless you are an abuse case or an orphan/ward of the state.  I have a kiddo that tried it.  There is a lot of legal proof/documentation that has to be provided along with it (along the lines of extensive medical/court/CPS proof of extreme physical abuse or foster care paperwork) that makes it in your best interest to not have contact with BOTH of your parents.  No one who is just "kicked out because they are 18" or "walked out and doesn't want contact with their parents" will ever qualify for it.

 

Stefanie

[Guest]

Dh likes to think he is liberal, and compared to some of his relatives he is. It never was that big of a deal until it came down to the actual act of parenting a kid who could talk. It was fine for Ds to hypothetically want his ears pierced, but then he actually did it. Now Ds want shiny little earrings and there go all the various fears showing up in Dh. Though part of him knows shiny earrings will not make our son gay, part of him is still VERY worried. "It just isn't what boys do!"

 

Part of Dh knows that helping our son navigate the costs and emotional issues with college will strengthen our relationship and hopefully save Ds from stupid financial decisions which could really cause problems later. But the "that's not how it's done" side of him is still in there. I think this might be how a lot of parents feel. It is like they are on autopilot from how they were raised.

 

The teen years will be interesting! You are right opposites attract....and my father loves Dh....supposedly he "fixed" me.

Interesting. My dh and I have some different views, much like you are talking about, but clearly, I have moved farther from my original views on many things than he has.

[Garga]

IIRC from a previous thread, minniewannabe kicked out her son at 18 because he was smoking. He came back at 20, with his girlfriend, to care for his new baby sibling. Minnie and her husband helped them both go to college and now the couple is married and he's a physician. That's what I remember anyways.

 

 

See, that's different than just kicking a kid out because he's 18.  That sounds like a person not respecting the house rules, rather than just having a birthday.

[Crimson Wife]

I'm shocked that anyone at all thinks this is okay for a kid who is still in school who is not also a danger to the household in some way. Kids in college usually still technically maintain a residence "at home" - are they "allowed" to come home in the summer? What about for holidays? How do any parents expect to maintain a good relationship with an adult child that they caused to become homeless?

 

This is just so foreign to me. I went to a college without a summer session, where you were required to live in a dorm for your first two years. If I had not been allowed to come home, I wouldn't have had anywhere to go. The money I made in the summers would not have covered both rent and food, honestly. I didn't have a car. I would have ended up on the streets if my parents had not kept feeding and housing me for part of the year.

 

Camp counselor or au pair positions generally include room & board.

[MomOfABunch]

He's officially homeless. I would contact the social worker at his school and let her know what's going on. Doesn't foster care have an 18-21 program for situations like this?

[Crimson Wife]

Ok, I do not ask this to be sarcastic or to make a point. I am genuinely curious. If people want to kick their kids off their houses and their wallets, as soon as they are 18, why have kids to start with? They do tend to be worse on the wallet earlier in their lives.

 

An 18 y.o. who has graduated high school is an adult. I'm willing to help out an adult child who is doing something productive with his/her life but I'm not supporting any lazy moochers.

 

[Mrs Mungo]

I'm shocked that anyone at all thinks this is okay for a kid who is still in school who is not also a danger to the household in some way. Kids in college usually still technically maintain a residence "at home" - are they "allowed" to come home in the summer? What about for holidays? How do any parents expect to maintain a good relationship with an adult child that they caused to become homeless?

They live with grandparents or stay with friends for the summers. I knew several people who had issues like this with their parents. It IS surprising that the parents don't seem to think it should affect the adult child's "obligations."

[LucyStoner]

Umm...that doesn't actually work unless you are an abuse case or an orphan/ward of the state. I have a kiddo that tried it. There is a lot of legal proof/documentation that has to be provided along with it (along the lines of extensive medical/court/CPS proof of extreme physical abuse or foster care paperwork) that makes it in your best interest to not have contact with BOTH of your parents. No one who is just "kicked out because they are 18" or "walked out and doesn't want contact with their parents" will ever qualify for it.

 

Stefanie

I have helped dozens of people file this form, bound for schools in several states, and never had one rejected. Reviewed carefully, yes. Rejected? No. None of these required court forms or CPS paperwork. Additionally the federal rules changed to be more favorable to "homeless students" in 2008. If a young person is fully self supporting and AT RISK of becoming homeless, they now qualify as a homeless student. A young person qualifies as homeless if they are couch surfing, even long term with relatives besides mom and dad. I sat on the board of an education non profit and am pretty familiar with the whole shebang.

[Farrar]

Camp counselor or au pair positions generally include room & board.

 

Yeah, I'm sure I would have landed on my feet eventually. I probably would have just moved in with my boyfriend over the summer... though if my parents had refused to continue filing out my fin-aid stuff then I would have had to drop out of college and I doubt I would have gone back, honestly, at least not for a long time. My life would have turned out extremely differently, I can say that with certainty. I wouldn't have been able to become a teacher or get my masters (which I did later completely on my own, but I probably would have still be struggling to get my bachelors). I also know that I pretty much would have zero relationship with my parents now and that my kids wouldn't have them as grandparents if my parents had done that to me. No way would they be an active part of my life if they had done that to me.

 

I guess that's the part that I have the most trouble seeing beyond. If I kicked my kids out at 18, I would pretty much be assuming that they would never be in my life again. I couldn't ever count on ever having them, or their future spouses or kids in my life. Of course, sometimes a young adult is so destructive or so misguided that this grave risk is worth it, even a positive move to protect the members of the household or to give a wake up call to the young adult. But still.

[LucyStoner]

Doesn't foster care have an 18-21 program for situations like this?

Not in this state. Most state foster care systems are probably the largest source of homeless 18 and 19 year olds in the state.

[Crimson Wife]

It has to do do with a working class assumption that the idea is to raise your children to be self-sufficient. If they know from the beginning that there is a deadline for getting their act together, they will put their shoulder to the wheel.  Is it true? I don't know.  To me, that was just how it was.

 

I don't see this as a working-class thing. I grew up upper-middle-class and it was expected that after I graduated high school, I was an adult and ultimately responsible for myself. My family generously helped me out by paying for 3 years of college, but that was a privilege to be earned rather than something to which I was automatically entitled simply by virtue of existing. My parents absolutely would've kicked me out after graduation if I'd frittered away my time in high school chasing boys rather than hitting the books.

[Sdel]

I have helped dozens of people file this form, bound for schools in several states, and never had one rejected. Reviewed carefully, yes. Rejected? No. None of these required court forms or CPS paperwork. Additionally the federal rules changed to be more favorable to "homeless students" in 2008. If a young person is fully self supporting and AT RISK of becoming homeless, they now qualify as a homeless student. A young person qualifies as homeless if they are couch surfing, even long term with relatives besides mom and dad. I sat on the board of an education non profit and am pretty familiar with the whole shebang.

 

This is not what I saw when I researched it.  And my stepson was told to go kiss and make up with mom and dad when he tried it. 

 

ETA:  Also, your original post you stated ESTRANGED students under 24, supporting themselves, etc.  Not ALL students estranged from their parents were necessarily "homeless" or kicked out in order to meet the listed *accepted* exemption.  Also, I'm very sure my stepson tried very hard to argue that he was homeless.....

 

Stefanie

[Mergath]

I don't see this as a working-class thing. I grew up upper-middle-class and it was expected that after I graduated high school, I was an adult and ultimately responsible for myself. My family generously helped me out by paying for 3 years of college, but that was a privilege to be earned rather than something to which I was automatically entitled simply by virtue of existing. My parents absolutely would've kicked me out after graduation if I'd frittered away my time in high school chasing boys rather than hitting the books.

 

Going off to college, which your parents have paid for, is not the same thing being discussed here at all.

[LucyStoner]

This is not what I saw when I researched it. And my stepson was told to go kiss and make up with mom and dad when he tried it.

 

1. A lot of financial aid office staff give bad information about this to students, which is why that organization I volunteered with helps advocate for students.

 

2. It may not have applied to your stepson but it does absolutely apply for a great many students who leave home due to abuse (of all kinds), neglect or instability or who are kicked out by their parents for a variety of reasons. Most students who apply for this have been self supporting or homeless, not just in the middle of a family spat. Students with perfectly legit claims to dependency overrides are too often led to believe that they have NO recourse besides the military, parenthood or marriage. They do.

 

3. The documentation required, if any, is usually one or more third party letters and not extensive.

 

4. Students in need of this shouldn't hassle with the front office staff at the financial aid office- they will usually get better results and more concrete information by going straight to the top of the office. It's the fin. aid administrator's decision to back up and document for possible federal review and each may have slightly different approaches.

[coffeegal]

Not in this state. Most state foster care systems are probably the largest source of homeless 18 and 19 year olds in the state.

 

My state does, but I know of at least 1 former foster care child who avoided the help like a plague because they were so angry at the system. :crying:

[LMV]

He's officially homeless. Doesn't foster care have an 18-21 program for situations like this?

 

That depends on the state/county. I am not familiar with any area that will place adults eighteen and older into foster care unless they are also disabled/special need.  In our area, for young adults [who entered foster care prior to age eighteen] "aging out" of foster care CP/FS will work a transition plan and will set the end date after the student is expected to graduate from high school so benefits may continue beyond turning eighteen depending on when they graduate.  

 

Our Job Corps program does serve individuals up to age twenty four and they provide dormitory style housing during the training period so that might be an option.  Our county also has some transition grants young adults who did not come out of the foster care program are eligible for so there might be a similar option near the OP.

[Sdel]

1. A lot of financial aid office staff give bad information about this to students, which is why that organization I volunteered with helps advocate for students.

 

2. It may not have applied to your stepson but it does absolutely apply for a great many students who leave home due to abuse (of all kinds), neglect or instability or who are kicked out by their parents for a variety of reasons. Most students who apply for this have been self supporting or homeless, not just in the middle of a family spat. Students with perfectly legit claims to dependency overrides are too often led to believe that they have NO recourse besides the military, parenthood or marriage. They do.

 

3. The documentation required, if any, is usually one or more third party letters and not extensive.

 

4. Students in need of this shouldn't hassle with the front office staff at the financial aid office- they will usually get better results and more concrete information by going straight to the top of the office. It's the fin. aid administrator's decision to back up and document for possible federal review and each may have slightly different approaches.

 

Lucy,

 

For what it is worth....my stepson was not just in a spat.  He was 100% kicked out (once at 16 and once at 17 1/2), extensively couch surfed, 100% has fully supported himself in his basic living.  He's had no contact outside forced contact with either parent in three years.  I'm sure he managed to "procure" the third party letters saying just how horrible and mean we were to him and how hard he's had it.  My particular point, it isn't necessarily enough to get a dependency exemption. 

 

He may not be a particularly good example though...since the method we used to kick him out at 17 1/2 was via "early" college, but his support essentially ended after that first semester.  Once he got denied he came and groveled and received renewed support, but it will be revoked again at the end of the semester because he failed to live up to the conditions to keep it (really, dinner once a month or two isn't too much to ask for a 100% paid for ride through college).  And, his mother has filed a FAFSA for him every year. 

 

My cousin is another such example.  She lived with my family for years, received no support what so ever from her family for college (all her college help came from my mom) and she was still a dependent and reliant on the FAFSA from her parents.  And today, she currently very close to her mom and siblings (lives with sis and on same street as mom), even though when she needs extreme emotional support she goes to my mom. 

 

Stefanie

[Farrar]

Going off to college, which your parents have paid for, is not the same thing being discussed here at all.

 

Seriously, so different. I guess I'm a little surprised that anyone who had their parents help pay for college or at least were willing to fill out the financial aid forms wouldn't see that. 

[Wheres Toto]

 And, his mother has filed a FAFSA for him every year. 

 

My cousin is another such example.  She lived with my family for years, received no support what so ever from her family for college (all her college help came from my mom) and she was still a dependent and reliant on the FAFSA from her parents.  And today, she currently very close to her mom and siblings (lives with sis and on same street as mom), even though when she needs extreme emotional support she goes to my mom. 

 

Stefanie

 

It sounds like that might be enough reason to not qualify for the program Lucy is talking about.   It seems to be more for those who are no longer in contact with parents, parents provide no support and refuse to process paperwork for them.

[Mrs Mungo]

Lucy,

 

For what it is worth....my stepson was not just in a spat.  He was 100% kicked out (once at 16 and once at 17 1/2), extensively couch surfed, 100% has fully supported himself in his basic living.  He's had no contact outside forced contact with either parent in three years.  I'm sure he managed to "procure" the third party letters saying just how horrible and mean we were to him and how hard he's had it.  My particular point, it isn't necessarily enough to get a dependency exemption. 

 

He may not be a particularly good example though...since the method we used to kick him out at 17 1/2 was via "early" college, but his support essentially ended after that first semester.  Once he got denied he came and groveled and received renewed support, but it will be revoked again at the end of the semester because he failed to live up to the conditions to keep it (really, dinner once a month or two isn't too much to ask for a 100% paid for ride through college).  And, his mother has filed a FAFSA for him every year. 

 

My cousin is another such example.  She lived with my family for years, received no support what so ever from her family for college (all her college help came from my mom) and she was still a dependent and reliant on the FAFSA from her parents.  And today, she currently very close to her mom and siblings (lives with sis and on same street as mom), even though when she needs extreme emotional support she goes to my mom. 

 

Stefanie

 

Yeah, his problem is that she DID file a FAFSA. My parents refused to file a FAFSA, but didn't help me with college. BUT, they did let me live at home, eat their food, etc. I couldn't get declared emancipated because I was still living at home. Both things have to happen for a college kid to get emancipated and file their own FAFSA-no FAFSA and no living arrangements/support. 

[LucyStoner]

Sdel, it is quite possible your stepson could have possibly recieved the dependency override had he gone about it correctly based on what you posted. Like I said, there's a lot of bad information passed around concerning this issue. It also varies a bit by administrator. In general a parent refusing to provide the info or support is not enough but kicking out a minor and the minor fully supporting themselves is more than that.

 

The FAFSA rules are this way to preserve federal aid for those most in need. While I support and understand that goal, I don't think going about it the way we do is at all ok. It shouldn't be that 22 year olds have to submit to possibly insane demands from their parents just to get student aid in their own names. And certainly twins whose mom abandoned them with their three younger siblings at 16 to move to Reno with her new husband shouldn't have clerical workers misleading them or being told they need to make up with their parents. That last example being taken from one of the exemptions I helped file.

[ocelotmom]

It is also not "easy" to kick out a child or ANY person living in you home. If they want to stay, they have legal standing to do so.

 

I'd imagine it's easy enough if the person being kicked out is unaware of this, unaware of how to fight it, or more afraid of retribution of some sort than of being kicked out.

[AimeeM]

Something else is going on, for sure.

Not necessarily (at all). I belong to another, very large, forum... and this (kicking kids out at 18, for no other reason) seems to be a pretty popular way of thinking. 

FTR, I think it's terrible.

[Sdel]

Sdel, it is quite possible your stepson could have recieved the dependency override had he gone about it correctly based on what you posted. Like I said, there's a lot of bad information passed around concerning this issue. It also varies a bit by administrator. In general a parent refusing to provide the info or support is not enough but kicking out a minor and the minor fully supporting themselves is more than that.

 

The FAFSA rules are this way to preserve federal aid for those most in need. While I support and understand that goal, I don't think going about it the way we do is at all ok. It shouldn't be that 22 year olds have to submit to possibly insane demands from their parents just to get student aid in their own names. And certainly twins whose mom abandoned them with their three younger siblings at 16 to move to Reno with her new husband shouldn't have clerical workers misleading them or being told they need to make up with their parents. That last example being taken from one of the exemptions I helped file.

 

No, we knew when he told us he was going to do it he'd never get it.  Not only was his mother filing his FAFSA, he had for the prior year been receiving 100% tuition paid through my DH's military grant, and his financial means were provided by the financial aid overages supplied by his mother's FAFSA data; not a job.  He wasn't going to get it because the school/gov't knew someone else was willing to/going to be paying that bill and they didn't need to pay it via financial aid and deprive someone who really was up a creek.  It was a matter of the pocketbook, not his circumstances.  But we filed his FAFSA only because we KNEW he was attending college because we put him there more or less against his will.  If he'd just walked out and done things on his own....without telling his parents, maybe he would have qualified....but it would have been unethical and wrong because his parents ARE willing to help (even after receiving a significant amount of abuse from him), it is him refusing.  Its a completely different perspective....with essentially the same "result"; a "homeless" and unsupported 18 year old.  He essentially tried to get his dependency waived on "special circumstances" and it didn't work. 

 

As I said, he'll be losing the military grant, again for the same reason as before, because honestly, all that was required to keep it is to show up to a family dinner once or twice a month.  In fact, he'd been only asked once the previous semester (he did show) and once again this current semester (told us he wouldn't show, threw a hissy fit about being asked/expected to show, and made no offer of a 'better date/time' that would fit his schedule better).  That isn't onerous or unreasonable, to be expected to be generally civil to or show up for dinner out with the person who is 100% funding your 8k/semester tuition bill.  We don't think it is unreasonable to expect that one receiving a family benefit such as paid for tuition at least *pretend* to be part of the family extending the benefit, especially because since he is using it no one else in the family can. 

 

That being said, should the line be drawn when the reason for the person's lack of support is due to their own refusal to engage and not the parents'?

 

I had a boyfriend during college who's parents filed FAFSA but did nothing to cover the gaps that were the expected parents contribution.  They didn't support him financially in any way and so he had to take loans to cover the gaps.  I myself never even bothered with the FAFSA knowing I would qualify for nothing, probably not even loans, even considering my mother's single parent income/father deceased profile.  

 

Personally, I think FAFSA dependency stuff is a crock.  It unnecessarily punishes a lot of people in a generally vulnerable time of their life in ways they have no say or real control over.  No wonder so many kids these days can't figure out how to be independent until 26+.  I personally don't feel it is any parent's responsibility to contribute to college/living to any child of adult age, and in a lot of cases question the wisdom of it, and I disagree with the government trying to force parents to contribute to college expenses via dependency rules. 

 

Stefanie

[Mommy22alyns]

I've seen plenty of cases of parents just considering themselves done because kiddo is 18.  Sadly if parents aren't willing to fill out the FAFSA, which I've also seen, kiddo is really stuck.

 

This happened to me.

 

I look forward to doing things very differently with my girls.

[LucyStoner]

Sdel, the reason I said he might is because you said in an earlier post he was self supporting and I missed that his mom was filing his FAFSA. In this last post it is clear he wasn't/isn't self supporting.

 

I personally can't see putting provisos beyond "you can't have this if you aren't sober or you are a violent threat to others" for the resources we have for our kids for college. Maybe my opinion will change when I have older kids, who knows?! :P

[LucyStoner]

I disagree with the government trying to force parents to contribute to college expenses via dependency rules.

 

Stefanie

These rules don't force parents to contribute. There is no statute requiring parents to cough up their EFC. These laws are mainly to prevent students from very well off families getting Pell Grants and subsidized loans and to prevent traditional students from getting in-state tuition when their state of residence is really their home state and not where they attend college. Pell grants and subsidized loans are a finite resource and if all 18 year olds are considered independent, those funds wouldn't be available to as many truly in need students. I don't agree with the dependency requirements but I see why they are in place, as imperfect as they are.

[foxbridgeacademy]

We had a neighbor who paid the rent on the adjoining townhouse where her 2 boys lived.  They were 16/ 17 and 14/15.  She lived with her boyfriend in another town about 45 minutes away.  She paid the rent and utilities and would bring groceries a couple times a month, that's it.  When the oldest graduated she kicked him out made the younger go live with his dad and let her lease expire.  These were two of the best behaved boys. No parties, no loud music, kept the house and garage spotless.  The eldest, luckily, had a job and he and his girlfriend moved into the cheapest place they could find.  The younger boy ended up with a different family member because the father was abusive (emotionally/verbally- called him horrible names because the kid was a bit effeminate). I don't understand parents like these (including my own).  

Not realistic but I want my kids to live with me forever.  I would be happy if the lived next door.  

 

[Crimson Wife]

Going off to college, which your parents have paid for, is not the same thing being discussed here at all.

 

I'm saying that if I hadn't been a diligent enough student to get into college I would've been told to go enlist or find some other way of supporting myself after high school graduation. My middle brother barely graduated high school by the skin of his teeth and he was warned about that (he found a music technology program that only cared about his musical & mathematical abilities and was willing to overlook lousy grades in his humanities courses).

[Audrey]

FWIW, I don't kick kids out of my house and I don't understand the mindset it takes to do such a thing.  Who does that? Indeed!

 

If my kid lives here, they have to do farm chores, though.  So far, ds thinks he's going to stay until he's married, like his dad did.  That's 100% fine with me.  I like my kid.  He (and his spouse) can even stay after that if they want. We can figure it out when/if it comes. No big deal.  

[Sdel]

Sdel, the reason I said he might is because you said in an earlier post he was self supporting and I missed that his mom was filing his FAFSA. In this last post it is clear he wasn't/isn't self supporting.

 

I personally can't see putting provisos beyond "you can't have this if you aren't sober or you are a violent threat to others" for the resources we have for our kids for college. Maybe my opinion will change when I have older kids, who knows?! :p

 

He is self supporting.  We didn't pay a dime towards his living expenses after the "kicked out/moved out" semester of college, it is just that initially his dimes didn't come from a job but gov't aid, but he was eventually forced to get a job because he hasn't receive a lot of aid the entire time.  He was a minor in his first semester of university, he couldn't get around the history that someone else footed that bill, but even that semester he wasn't given anything by either parent other than what it took to get him into the dorm and the financial aid he got for being there.  He got a lot the first year, but now doesn't qualify for hardly anything based on his mother....which makes it really crazy that dinner with dad and his brothers once a semester (he doesn't even have to talk to dad) isn't worth 8k/semester in paid tuition.  He also hasn't spoken to either parent beyond anything more than a handful of texts and sit downs in 3 years (you owe me demands which are never conceded to).  We have bought him groceries once, in three years...and neither parent trusts him enough to even consider co-signing anything for him.

 

Really, I'm not sure that just filing the FAFSA is really all that much parental support....he was in the dorm all of one semester, and then he couch surfed for months.  Before that, he was essentially couch surfing on his mother's custody time and he would have gladly couch surfed on ours too.  Honestly, I almost wish he had been successful in getting his status changed, that way when it came back to bite him, it would have been his own making. 

 

Your opinion will change if one of your kids actually becomes abusive to you, and there are many ways to be abusive that don't involve violent threats.  This stepson wasn't actually violent, but he had no problem at all hinting that he would be violent towards someone in the family if he didn't get his way.  And he had no problem slandering multiple family members with accusations that could have resulted in jail time or loss of livelihood if he'd been believed.  Even his school counselor had a hand in forcibly sending him to college early because he was on their 'watch list' (his suspensions were red flags because of *why* he was suspended not by how frequently he was suspended), including making exceptions to what was considered applicable credits for graduation. 

 

As for what it means for the original question of the thread....you can't just take anyone's word for what is going on unless you are practically family to the kid/family.  Some kids do reserve their nasty side for only their family. 

 

Stefanie

[LucyStoner]

Sdel, I have a son with autism and violent tantrums. Please do not imply my opinion is one of rose colored glasses. I definitely can see needing my son to live away from home as a young adult. He has attacked family members. Things are good now but they haven't always been that way and I can't count on too much staying the same when it comes to my son.

 

In hurtful family dynamics there are usually a lot of players and variables. Sometimes it may be all the kid or all the parents, but quite often there are valid reasons for both sides to be upset. I saw this with my older brother (who moved out when he was 16) and I've seen it in many families. Still, a parent's job is fundamentally one of responsibility. I don't think kicking a kid out is something that most parents take lightly and there are certainly times when it has to happen but I've seen a lot of abusive parents and a lot of young teens who really deserved a lot more.

[SKL]

I agree that we need both sides of the story to really comment.

 

Parents need to consider more than just what their adult offspring "need."  Their behavior impacts the dynamic of the home the parents need to provide for the younger kids who are not able to be independent.

 

Another point is that once a kid is 18, if they are destitute, they may be able to get government or charity assistance that is not available to young people living with their parents.  The parent may be thinking this is a way to provide better for the family overall.

 

I would also say that many 18yos are mature enough to be independent.  Even if they are still students, they may get by just as well apart from their parents.  We who don't know the family can't judge whether the 18yo is capable of independence.

 

And lots of independent adults attend school.

[SKL]

My eldest brother was gently but firmly kicked out of the nest at 18 IIRC.  He was not showing my mom the respect due the matriarch of the home.  He had held "real jobs" since he was 16, and had one at the time he turned 18.  His birthday was at the end of May, so right around the time he graduated high school.  He wasn't really broken up about the change as far as I know.  He was an adult in all meanings of the word.  I do not know if my folks would have let him stay longer had he been in the middle of his senior year.  He was doing a coop at the vo-ed school where part of his school was his job, so it probably would not have mattered much.

[Crimson Wife]

  I've seen a lot of abusive parents and a lot of young teens who really deserved a lot more.

 

Are we talking "young teens" or 18 y.o.'s? Because there is a big difference between kicking out a minor vs. an adult.

[Sdel]

These rules don't force parents to contribute. There is no statute requiring parents to cough up their EFC. These laws are mainly to prevent students from very well off families getting Pell Grants and subsidized loans and to prevent traditional students from getting in-state tuition when their state of residence is really their home state and not where they attend college. Pell grants and subsidized loans are a finite resource and if all 18 year olds are considered independent, those funds wouldn't be available to as many truly in need students. I don't agree with the dependency requirements but I see why they are in place, as imperfect as they are.

 

I know more than a few people who had parents pay/provide in some way their entire tuition, and still got Pell grants, loans, and non-merit based scholarships (have 2 kiddos that this has happened with in various semesters) above and beyond what it took to pay for college expenses, to the tune of *over 5 grand over* what was needed, and one was attending community college only.  And while parents may not be forced to actually hand over money, they certainly have the expectation dangling over their heads and college students are certainly bitter about it.  I don't know of a single college kid that I went to school with that didn't grumble about the disparity of the grants and parents income when they had parents that either couldn't or wouldn't help with college expenses and/or living expenses.   

 

Stefanie

[LucyStoner]

Are we talking "young teens" or 18 y.o.'s? Because there is a big difference between kicking out a minor vs. an adult.

Reading that back, I think I meant young adults, not young teens. I used the wrong word.

 

I think it is because I was self sufficent at such a young age that I am determined to give my sons, to the best of my ability a more supportive transition to adulthood which allows them to reach their potential.