Teens that are resistant to bedtime.

[Okra]

Don't you have an only?  Life with 4 kids is just so much different than with 1.  

 

 

Just in case you're wondering....  We have a large family.  We gradually stop bedtimes at age 11.  It works for us.  So, you probably can't guess bedtimes on the size of family.  I guess people do what works for them.

[fairfarmhand]

I think most of it is one of the things that she really CANNOT understand.

 

It is really hard to have it all and do it all.

 

You can't stay up late every night and do everything that you want to do during the day too.

 

Accepting limitations and accurately judging energy levels and the time it takes to do stuff is SO HARD for this child. She needs a ton of hand holding in this area. I honestly feel concern for her going to college because I can totally see her burning herself out FAST.

[Okra]

 

Accepting limitations and accurately judging energy levels and the time it takes to do stuff is SO HARD for this child. She needs a ton of hand holding in this area. I honestly feel concern for her going to college because I can totally see her burning herself out FAST.

 

THIS is why it is important to give teens choices.  If a strict bedtime is set until she moves out, because YOU know better, it is not going to help her be an independent adult.

 

Baby steps, and respect for others opinions, gradually getting to where she can manage herself before she moves out.  My kids don't have a bedtime, but they do listen to me when I explain why they need to go to bed earlier.

 

Just my opinion.  Obviously, families do what they feel is best for them.

[Catwoman]

I think most of it is one of the things that she really CANNOT understand.

 

It is really hard to have it all and do it all.

 

You can't stay up late every night and do everything that you want to do during the day too.

 

Accepting limitations and accurately judging energy levels and the time it takes to do stuff is SO HARD for this child. She needs a ton of hand holding in this area. I honestly feel concern for her going to college because I can totally see her burning herself out FAST.

I think she's probably pretty typical in that regard, though. Many teenagers want it all and they want it now and they want it their way, but then they get a little older and they mature a bit, and they end up just as sensible as anyone else.

 

Keep telling yourself it's just a phase. :D

[fairfarmhand]

THIS is why it is important to give teens choices.  If a strict bedtime is set until she move out, because YOU know better, it is not going to help her be an independent adult.

 

Baby steps, and respect for others opinions, gradually getting to where she can manage herself before she moves out.  My kids don't have a bedtime, but they do listen to me when I explain why they need to go to bed earlier.

 

Just my opinion.  Obviously, families do what they feel is best for them.

 

Perhaps. However, managing this in the right now...I just CAN'T deal with this crabby person day after day.

 

She knows why. She just lacks the maturity to do it.

[Catwoman]

Perhaps. However, managing this in the right now...I just CAN'T deal with this crabby person day after day.

 

She knows why. She just lacks the maturity to do it.

This is probably a stupid question, but is she always pleasant when she gets enough rest, or is she kind of crabby then, too?

 

I'm only asking because teenaged girls can be drama queens on their very best day.

 

Not that I'm remembering from personal experience or anything... :leaving:

 

I guess what I'm asking is if it's really all about the sleep, or if it's also "hormonal teenage girl" stuff as well.

[AimeeM]

Wow. Some of you folks are very strict with your teenagers.

 

I'm thinking of letting my ds14 read this thread to show him how good he's got it. ;)

 

I don't know any teens who have to be in their rooms by 8pm, and taking away a 16yo's lightbulb is so far from what I would ever consider doing that I don't even know what to say about it.

Word. My 13 year old doesn't have a bed time. In fact, she had a late dance class tonight, and is currently painting her nails in her bedroom, listening to music, and watching tv :D

[JumpyTheFrog]

I would rather pick much bigger battles than bedtime -- and I also think teens need some level of independence and the ability to make some of their own life decisions, and bedtime seems to be pretty minor, all things considered. :)

I, too, like the idea of giving teens (and younger kids) more freedom and choice in their life. However, some kids are so unself-aware that for certain things they may need to be treated as though they are much younger. My sleep-resistant boy is also a terrible judge of his hunger level. He will wail about being starving but then not each much and other times will have a full out, irrational meltdown (sometimes violent) because he is hungry and didn't say anything until his body percieved it as an emergency or something. I don't have these problems with my younger son. The younger one probably won't need a strict bedtime as a teen, but I'm sure my older one will.

 

Fairfarmhand and I often seem to have the same kid, just hers is twice as old and a girl. She's posted several things lately where I know exactly what it's like. The rules we both consider trying probably sound nuts to many people - hey they'd probably sound nuts to me too if both my kids were like my youngest.

[fairfarmhand]

This is probably a stupid question, but is she always pleasant when she gets enough rest, or is she kind of crabby then, too?

 

I'm only asking because teenaged girls can be drama queens on their very best day.

 

Not that I'm remembering from personal experience or anything... :leaving:

 

I guess what I'm asking is if it's really all about the sleep, or if it's also "hormonal teenage girl" stuff as well.

 

mmm...her baseline is pretty crabby anyway.

 

However, when she's tired it really ramps up. School takes longer and is harder so she gets more frustrated which interferes with her work....it's a terrible cycle.

 

But no, she's not the most pleasant of kids on a average day. But when she's fatigued.

 

WOWZERS!

[JumpyTheFrog]

I'd like to point out one more thing. While sleep deprivation makes everyone cranky, it doesn't all happen to the same degree for everyone. My youngest will whine and talk back more, but my oldest can start to behave like someone who perhaps should be screened for mental illness. Again, I have no experience with teens, but unless his ability to recognize his need for sleep advances out of the toddler stage, he will probably need us make getting enough sleep as a teen one of the important battles.

 

Fairfarmhand, I hope you figure something out.

[Mrs Mungo]

Wow. Some of you folks are very strict with your teenagers.

 

I'm thinking of letting my ds14 read this thread to show him how good he's got it. ;)

One of my kids has a strict medical routine that makes flexibility for any of us basically impossible, or I would never get to sleep. Implying that it is necessarily overly strict isn't really fair. Plenty of us have extenuating circumstances that you don't really know anything about.

[kewb]

My 16 year old does not have a bedtime per se but we are all usually upstairs and in pajamas by 10. I don't require lights out at 10 but the teens know what time they have to be up and if they consistently have difficulty and are pains in the butt because they were up too late texting or gaming or whatever self regulating goes out the window and I take all electronics at 10. I am working very hard with my oldest on this because, as I tell him all the time, I won't be at college with him and he needs to learn to manage his time.

[Catwoman]

One of my kids has a strict medical routine that makes flexibility for any of us basically impossible, or I would never get to sleep. Implying that it is necessarily overly strict isn't really fair. Plenty of us have extenuating circumstances that you don't really know anything about.

Of course, there will always be a few people with extenuating circumstances, but other than what you just posted, I haven't heard anything about medical issues. What I have been reading seems to be mainly about parents needing time to themselves or kids who get grumpy when they don't get enough sleep.

[KungFuPanda]

When you have a child who is immature for his/her age life is just different. It can be very hard for people who don't experience this to understand why anyone would have 'kid rules' for their teen. You just do what works for your family. Not every teen is mature enough to self-monitor every area of life. One child may need strict bedtime oversight and another might need strict dating oversight. It comes down to knowing your kid.

 

I don't have four kids, but I imagine that you can't have a free-for-all with so many people in play. I grew up as one of four kids though, and my parents had stricter routines than I do with two kids. We definitely all retired to our rooms by a certain time at night just so the house would quiet down. I have only two, quiet kids, so I don't NEED a noise ordinance. If I needed one, you can bet I'd have one :-)

[sassenach]

Just in case you're wondering.... We have a large family. We gradually stop bedtimes at age 11. It works for us. So, you probably can't guess bedtimes on the size of family. I guess people do what works for them.

For sure. For us 4 kids + 2 introvert parents + small house= more structured bed times. They don't have to sleep, but they can't stay up and out.

 

The OP has a situation where it seems that more structure would be appropriate. It's been intimated or outright said that the idea of a structured bedtime routine is somehow abnormal or inappropriate for a teen. I disagree.

 

Like you said, it really depends on the teen, family, and circumstances.

[Jann in TX]

My oldest could never get to sleep before 11pm  (and often later) starting at puberty (age 12). Around 10pm she would disappear into her room to read, watch TV while doing a craft or play on computer.  Luckily she was homeschooled so she was allowed to sleep in.  I was 'mean' and made her get up by 10am.  She is 24 now and on her own-- she still stays up late naturally.  The earliest she has to be at work is 10am.  It works for her!  DH (a night owl himself) has no problem calling her after 11pm to ask her a question-- no doubt that she will still be up!

 

DH does rarely gets home from work before 7pm (our normal dinner time).  After dinner he wanted time to be with the girls-- watching TV/playing games/just visiting.  An 8pm bedtime was not going to work!  When oldest dds were teens youngest was a baby-- even the baby did not go down until 9pm-- funny she is now 12 and still crashes (quietly with no complaing or drama) at 9pm--like clockwork-- tonight it was 9:04 when she turned off her light... so 1 out of 3 dds has a 'reasonable' bed time. 

 

 

[KungFuPanda]

Sometimes I think we give too much credit to hard-wiring. Most people CAN adjust their sleep schedules if the want to. I say I'm a night owl but that means I prefer it. Realistically, how much sleep I get is more important than when I get it. Most people are capable of getting used to a change in time zones, daylight savings, night shifts, etc. . . Sure, I loved staying up late as a teen. I was also in basic training with LOADS of teenagers and I'll be darned, but EVERY one of those 'natural teen clocks' figured out "early to bed early to rise" VERY quickly. I once worked a 2 a.m - 10 a.m. shift for almost a year. It's not a fun adjustment, but it's not THAT hard. I'm sure there are outliers who really cannot adjust, but I doubt that's a biological norm.

[Catwoman]

Sometimes I think we give too much credit to hard-wiring. Most people CAN adjust their sleep schedules if the want to. I say I'm a night owl but that means I prefer it. Realistically, how much sleep I get is more important than when I get it. Most people are capable of getting used to a change in time zones, daylight savings, night shifts, etc. . . Sure, I loved staying up late as a teen. I was also in basic training with LOADS of teenagers and I'll be darned, but EVERY one of those 'natural teen clocks' figured out "early to bed early to rise" VERY quickly. I once worked a 2 a.m - 10 a.m. shift for almost a year. It's not a fun adjustment, but it's not THAT hard. I'm sure there are outliers who really cannot adjust, but I doubt that's a biological norm.

:iagree:

 

I have always been a night owl, but you can bet I learned not to stay up crazy-late when I had to get up at 6:00 am so I could get to work on time.

[Melissa B]

My dd 16 doesn't have a bedtime because she is very good at self regulation. However, my dd 14 doesn't have that ability (just yet) and would regularly stay up all night long. She has a lights out requirement of 11:30. She is a night owl and will often stay up well past that time, even with the lights out. So I have accommodated her somewhat by giving her a two hour lunch so that she can nap in the early afternoons. She often sleeps for an hour or so around noon. In our home, this seems to be a good compromise for all involved.

[KungFuPanda]

My dd 16 doesn't have a bedtime because she is very good at self regulation. However, my dd 14 doesn't have that ability (just yet) and would regularly stay up all night long. She has a lights out requirement of 11:30. She is a night owl and will often stay up well past that time, even with the lights out. So I have accommodated her somewhat by giving her a two hour lunch so that she can nap in the early afternoons. She often sleeps for an hour or so around noon. In our home, this seems to be a good compromise for all involved.

Isn't that a Seinfeld joke? "Nighttime Me likes to party! She doesn't care how it effects Morning Me!"

[FriedClams]

I went to boarding school for high school. Su - Th study hall in the dorms was from 7:30-9:45, with lights out at 10 or 10:15. (I'm old. I can't remember.) Fr and Sat lights out was 11 or 11:30. It was enforced. We had prefects and dorm parents knock on doors with lights on. Obviously we were self regulating to a large part, (no one made sure you went to breakfast, etc), but bedtime was enforced. If a teen can't self regulate, and it affects the home, I'd set limits until they matured.

[Punks in Ontario]

Yeah, my daughter was being a real....pain (not the word I want to use) and she was standing in the kitchen screaming at the top of her lungs "Why is everyone in this house EXCEPT ME SO GROUCHY!???"

 

If it was someone else's kid It'd be almost funny!

 

Yep, I laughed.  Sorry I don't have any great advice here.  I've had the overtired irrational teen girl here too.  Not fun.

 

For the boys, 5 a.m. milking makes them go to bed before their little brothers.

[Hoot]

DS15 doesn't really have a strict or regulated bedtime anymore. I get up at 4am for work every morning and ds gets up at 5:15 because he comes with me. He often has activities immediately after I get off at 9 am so him coming is not always optional. Because I go to bed at 8pm in order to get up, he is expected to be in his room at 8pm as well. I don't require that he go to bed then, but he's usually not far behind. In the summer I was lax about screens in the bedroom, but now that we're back to getting up so early the screens charge in the office at night.

 

The only offense for which I have taken a light bulb away has been chronically forgetting to turn the light off. I haven't had to do it in years though.

 

DS has days where he is over tired and self-elects to take a nap. His day is so early that I don't mind.

 

If I was dealing with your issue though, I would work with her to determine when she feels the best. Help her do some experimentation and help her journal the information daily. What time did she go to bed? Get up? How long did pre-bed take? How long does morning routine take? How did she feel personally each day? Since she is not self-aware this will involve you probing. How do others perceive her mood each day? All these things are written down and analyzed. Then, at the end of your experiment (maybe 2 weeks) help her to look at the information and together help her come up with an appropriate bed time for herself. Helping her become more self-aware of the situation should help her to own the bedtime and routine rather than mean old mom imposing it. Being 16, these are skills that she will need to be able to apply on her own if she opts to go away for college in a few years or even into the work force.

[pooh bear]

The only rule in this house is electronics off by 9pm; 10pm on weekends. And that is only because he would stay up all night chatting with friends on a forum he visits.

 

DS is 14 and gets up at 6:30am. He doesn't have too, he just chooses too. I think he is asleep by 11pm, maybe midnight. This kid does not need a lot of sleep.

 

On Saturdays we stay up late playing board games. We've been known to finish well after midnight.

 

 

[Murphy101]

I'm up until 2am many nights and getting up no later 8 and often around 6am most school days.

 

Some days I'm really tired, but I'm not letting that excuse being a total b----- to everyone either.

 

My not teen kids go to bed between 7:30/8 to 9 at the latest.

 

My 13-16 kids are send off to bed at 10.

 

My 16/17+ go when they want to. As long as they aren't keeping everyone up with them, I don't care. Most nights they go to bed by 11 or even 9. They are whooped tired, so there's really no issue with them wanting to stay up later. I have one that works until 2am, so he tends to stay up later regardless bc of that. It's not a problem.

 

When any of my teens are acting exceptionally tired, and we all know what it looks like for each of them at this point, I just tell them, "I think you are tired and while I have sympathy for it, it's no excuse to be an a$$ to everyone here, so knock it off or go get over it in your room."

 

And to be fair, when I'm having a really cranky moment, that's what I try to do too. "ARGH! I'm exhausted and y'all are driving me nuts! For all our sakes, I'm going to go decompress for a few minutes with a cup of coffee!" And I go do that and they all know to give me some space and I'll probably be mostly human again soon.

 

And my teens are allowed to say that too, "I've had a long crappy day and I'm just not in a happy place. I'm going to shower, eat and go to my room for peace and quiet for a bit. I'll come chat later." (Usually the first thing everyone does when they come home is find me or dh and tell us what all they've been doing. But sure, some times they are bone tired and just need to gather themselves. It's no big deal.)

 

I see nothing wrong with people who live together giving each other the mercy of occasional decompression time to get their act together and then move on. Just because I can understand why they are acting like turds, doesn't mean I have to tolerate them crapping on me and everyone else here.

 

I'd be pulling your dd aside and explaining in private that telling her she's being a PITA isn't necessarily a character statement. We can all have those moments or phases, thus we all need some grace of loved ones to get through it. There needs to be a mutually understood agreement that both of you just want to be able to get along at least on a polite level and what can be done to address these moments without making anyone more flammable.

 

If this is not an occasional thing, I'd be looking at changing things to relieve some of the problems causing it if possible. (For example, less hours at work or one less class or better scheduled the next semester or diet changes.or upping Vit/mineral intake.)

[fairfarmhand]

 

 

 

And my teens are allowed to say that too, "I've had a long crappy day and I'm just not in a happy place. I'm going to shower, eat and go to my room for peace and quiet for a bit. I'll come chat later." (Usually the first thing everyone does when they come home is find me or dh and tell us what all they've been doing. But sure, some times they are bone tired and just need to gather themselves. It's no big deal.)

 

Oh my, I will be so glad for the day when she has the maturity and self awareness to see this in herself. I would be shocked if I heard this. I am hoping that eventually in the next year or so we will get there.

[Susan in TN]

Do you and dh regularly go to bed by the time you would like dd to go to bed? I'm just wondering if setting a "it's nighttime and time to go to bed" atmosphere would help? Dh and I usually go to bed around 10. I think my 16yo would benefit by going to bed around 9, but at least by 10 the lights are off in the house, doors locked, stuff put away and turned off, and so it just seems time to go to bed for everyone. Dh and it usually read in bed or do work there.

 

There have been times where we are wiped out and start "putting the house to bed" around 9 and strangely enough, dd starts getting ready for bed then, too.

[Murphy101]

Oh my, I will be so glad for the day when she has the maturity and self awareness to see this in herself. I would be shocked if I heard this. I am hoping that eventually in the next year or so we will get there.

Well it took me years to get there. It's not always so pretty. Some times it's more of a grumbling muttering stomp to room and everyone just leaves them alone. :)

[AK_Mom4]

DD20 was this way as a teen.  She hated going to bed, but was grumpy, mean and nasty to the family (especially me!) when she wa tired.

 

I finally laid down the "in your room by 9pm" rule for all the high schoolers.  I couldn't make them sleep, but at least they got some quiet down time each evening.  Their first class in the morning was at 6:30am.  Often they napped in the afternoon when sports and music schedules allowed.  I would send DD to her room alone to "regain perspective"  when she got nasty, which often ended up with her napping and coming out in a better mood.

 

Hope This Helps - these teen years can be rough!

[ThisIsTheDay]

If you're removing the lightbulb from your teenager's room, I would venture to guess that your kids know better than to complain about their bedtime.

 

I could be completely misinterpreting your posts in this thread, but it sounds like you are very strict.

 

Everyone has their "thing." My thing: do NOT touch my walls. Ever.  I'm sure I have a few other things, but they are so ingrained that I forget they would seem unusual to other people.

 

 

[Luanne]

In my opinion, if she won't go to bed when she should and insists on being grumpy when she doesn't get enough sleep, the early morning activities should go away.  She is 16, yes, but she has shown she isn't mature enough to know what is best for her.  It isn't fair for everyone else in your home to have to deal with her grumpiness because she can't control herself yet.  I'd give her an ultimatum... get to bed on time .. stop being grumpy all the time or lose privileges.  Yes, she is 16, but not an adult yet and clearly not the maturity level of an adult.

[J-rap]

I wouldn't insist on a bedtime, but I'd have things in place that might allow for a bedtime to happen more easily.  For example, someone else's house rule of no screen time after a certain hour sounds good.  Also, no loud music after a certain hour.  Making sure we were home by that certain hour.  Etc.  I guess just make the household as quiet and boring as possible at a certain time!  ha   :)  Maybe you could fill her in on the benefit of quick afternoon naps too.  Sometimes things like that don't even occur to someone.

 

After that, I would not insist on a bedtime.    As long as you provide her with the opportunity (a quiet household) to sleep, it's up to her to decide.  But, treating others rudely would not be acceptable.  I think that's a different issue altogether though.

 

Out of curiosity, what does she do after 10pm?  Maybe you can help steer the family to quiet activities after that hour.  Have you talked to her about the connection between lack of sleep and impatience?  I wonder if an evening walk would help relax her?  A cup of warm milk?  Just brainstorming.  Maybe she needs help finding a relaxing evening routine.

[Luanne]

It's very interesting to see that many think that it is appropriate to problem solve for teens in the same way you problem solve for a 5 yr old. Make a rule. Enforce it.

 

Why not sit and problem solve with the teen?

 

If the teenager is going to act like a 5 year old, why not treat them like one? 

[In The Great White North]

 

 

It's very interesting to see that many think that it is appropriate to problem solve for teens in the same way you problem solve for a 5 yr old. Make a rule. Enforce it. 

 

Why not sit and problem solve with the teen? 

 

 

 

Yeah, my daughter was being a real....pain (not the word I want to use) and she was standing in the kitchen screaming at the top of her lungs "Why is everyone in this house EXCEPT ME SO GROUCHY!???"

 

Because they don't get it.

 

 

[In The Great White North]

A related story  . . . 

 

Several years ago, the powers that be decided that "Lights Out" at West Point was unenforceable and eliminated the rule. (I'm not sure why, they didn't have any problem enforcing this back in the day.)  Taps was 11:30 (the overhead light had to be out but the desk light could be on) and Lights Out was 12:30am (all lights had to be out in the rooms, hallways and bathrooms were still lit).

 

The Corps average GPA fell by a full point.  Two years of this and they amazingly figured out how to enforce it again.

[swellmomma]

My teens do not have a set bedtime, however if we have to be out the door early I usually recommend a decent time to them.  In the beginning of giving them freedom over bedtime they stayed up all night.  DD would be on her laptop until the wee hours etc.  But as time went on they started heading to bed on their own at decent times. Like right now is 1030pm and all 4 kids (including the 2 teens) have been in bed for 1/2 hour and are fast asleep.  We have to be on the highway at 7am so they were willing to go earlier than usual.  Typically they are in bed by 11pm of their own discretion though sometimes they push it later (just like I do).  If their behaviour is being rude to family I send them back to their rooms with the warning they are not welcome out until they can be civil to everyone.  IF that means they miss an afternoon/evening activity, so be it, they brought it on themselves. Army cadet camp solidified the 11 pm time as that was when it was lights out at camp.  I could not imagine having an early bedtime for teens, heck we don't even get home from cadets until 10 pm.  My thinking is if I am trusting that my kids are mature enough and responsible enough to stay home while I work, learn to drive my car, get jobs etc, I sure as heck better be able to trust them to go to bed when they feel tired.  Since I don't fight them on it they have learned to listen to their own bodies rather than staying up just to stay up

[Jenny in Florida]

I could not imagine having an early bedtime for teens, heck we don't even get home from cadets until 10 pm.  My thinking is if I am trusting that my kids are mature enough and responsible enough to stay home while I work, learn to drive my car, get jobs etc, I sure as heck better be able to trust them to go to bed when they feel tired.  Since I don't fight them on it they have learned to listen to their own bodies rather than staying up just to stay up

 

Right. Each of mine had all kinds of activities that kept them out until later than some of these folks have set "bedtimes." And my son, in particular, needed a snack and time to wind down before he tried to sleep. (He's a dancer and often had been out of the house dancing and teaching for three or more hours plus drive time before he got home.)

 

We did not have adult-enforced bedtimes for our kids past the age of 13-ish. Instead, we made clear what kind of behavior we expected, including how it was appropriate to speak to and treat other members of the family. Consequences for not living up to those standards included things like missing activities. If a pattern became clear that lack of sleep was making it difficult for the teen to handle responsibilities with a cheerful, pleasant attitude, I would make it clear that the problematic behavior could not continue, and I would discuss with the teen my perception that he or she needed to make more of an effort to get to bed.

 

If the behavior continued, consequences would come into play, but they would be, as much as possible, natural consequences for unacceptable behavior/treatment of others, not punitive actions because a child missed bedtime.

 

My point of view is that my job as a parent it to help teens develop their own judgment and become mature adults capable of managing their lives. And I can't see how micromanaging scheduling details and imposing bedtimes as I would for a much younger child helps with that process.

[Justmeandyou]

Because *I* need sleep, my kids go to bed by 9:00/9:30.  I cannot sleep with someone moving around and doing stuff throughout the house.   As it is, I get woken up every time someone gets up to go to the bathroom at night, I don't need to be kept up until midnight or later by other people.  I've found that mine really need 10-11 hours of sleep each night to function well, so that puts them waking between 7 and 8, which works for our schedule. 

[Tammi K]

Wow. I can't imagine requiring my 14yo ds to be in his room by 9pm. We often go out for coffee and dessert long after 9:00.

 

But we're all night owls here, so that is probably why the bedtimes all seem so early to me. :)

 

Heck, most nights we haven't eaten dinner by 9:00!  :leaving: