DS15 and inappropriate electronics usage - wwyd

[oneangelwaiting]

We are pretty internet strict. DS has an iPhone which we ask him to turn off at a certain time every night, not take it to school, not have it in the bathroom or his bedroom. He also has a "serious" girlfriend, they have been together about a year and a half.

We found out not once, but twice that he was secretly planning to meet up with her. We took his phone away for a time, had a talk about trust etc, pretty sure he, my husband and me all cried. We felt like he was really sorry, he got his phone back and all privileges with no changes.

Then we found out that he had his ipod touch (he told us he lent it to a friend) and was using it somehow to talk to his girlfriend all night, at school, take pictures, etc., so it was basically the same as having his phone only he kept it hidden from us. We also found out he had had his iPod during the time we had taken his phone away, so obviously that wasn't much of a punishment.

I looked in his iPod today. He is talking to his girlfriend about wanting to have sex, "doing things" at the movies besides making out (actual word usage is fondling). He has pictures of her butt in a thong and a close up of her upper body in a string bikini. There was lots of mention in their texts of deleting pictures so I'm sure other pictures have been shared but just deleted.

Her parents are the ones who usually instigate their "dates", he calls her mom "Mom" (not me). He just turned fifteen a month ago, she is a few months older.

What would you do? Would you talk to her parents and let them know about what she is doing with her phone? They seem to trust her implicitly. FWIW my husband and i are pretty young and we feel like we are maybe more suspicious than other parents because we remember how bad we were!

 

***updates in #52 and #63

[liber]

No advice. But BTDT. It didn't end well. We would take his phone. He would buy another one and hide it. He went through 3 phones. He parents were not as strict and thought we were too controlling. She ended up pregnant in their last year of school. There was also a lot of inappropiate pictures and texting all night, school work slipping because that is all they seem to think about. Her parents didn't want hear that they were having sex. Even when I insisted he take some of our condoms to use, he refused. She told him she couldn't get pregnant. Anyways fast forward to today, they are still together, baby will be two soon. They are both good parents. He did say recently that he wished he had listened. I should add they were 16/17 when they started dating.

 

Hopefully someone will have helpful advice. Sorry I can't be more encouraging.

 

I guess I would tell her parents because I would want to know. Hopefully they will work with you.

 

Hugs

No advice. But BTDT. It didn't end well. We would take his phone. He would but another one and hide it. He went through 3 phones. He parents were not as strict and thought we were too controlling. She ended up pregnant in their last year of school. There was also a lot of inappropiate pictures and texting all night, school work slipping because that is all they seem to think about. Her parents didn't want hear that they were having sex. Even when I insisted he take some of our condoms to use, he refused. She told him she couldn't get pregnant. Anyways fast forward to today, they are still together, baby will be two soon. They are both good parents. He did say recently that he wished he had listened. I should add they were 16/17 when they started dating.

 

Hopefully someone will have helpful advice. Sorry I can't be more encouraging.

 

I guess I would tell her parents because I would want to know. Hopefully they will work with you.

 

Hugs

[liber]

I have no idea what is happening to my post. Trying to respond on the iPad. Argh.

[theYoungerMrsWarde]

If that was my daughter, I would want to know. You need to show, not just tell, but sit down and show her parents the phone/iPad/ whatever. Then you need to all as a group (him, her, her parents, and you) have a big, embarrassing conversation about them having sex.

[theYoungerMrsWarde]

Or you could go the Jim Bob Duggar route and be so obnoxiously sexual/fondling/ humping that they're completely turned off of the idea of even touching each other. :P

[theYoungerMrsWarde]

Is her father not intimidating? Dh says he wants to start working out now so when the time comes, he will be for boys interested in Lady Bug. He says that guys wouldn't dream of doing things to a daughter if the guy thinks the dad could beat him up. On the other hand, he thinks that if the guy thinks he could take the dad, he'll be more handsy/pushy with the daughter.

 

Does the dad own guns?

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Is her father not intimidating? Dh says he wants to start working out now so when the time comes, he will be for boys interested in Lady Bug. He says that guys wouldn't dream of doing things to a daughter if the guy thinks the dad could beat him up. On the other hand, he thinks that if the guy thinks he could take the dad, he'll be more handsy/pushy with the daughter.

 

Does the dad own guns?

 

Your husband is quite wrong, and frankly thinking implicit threats or intimidation is the best way to control a teen's sexuality is a bit odd.

[theYoungerMrsWarde]

Your husband is quite wrong, and frankly thinking implicit threats or intimidation is the best way to control a teen's sexuality is a bit odd.

This is based on Dh's experience as a teenage boy, and conversations with his male teenage friends. He graduated high school 11 years ago, so the memory is fairly fresh still.

[shage]

Is her father not intimidating? Dh says he wants to start working out now so when the time comes, he will be for boys interested in Lady Bug. He says that guys wouldn't dream of doing things to a daughter if the guy thinks the dad could beat him up. On the other hand, he thinks that if the guy thinks he could take the dad, he'll be more handsy/pushy with the daughter.

 

Does the dad own guns?

 

I think this approach shows a complete lack of understanding of teen life in an age of social media.

 

A dad who can have frank and respectful discussions with his teen daughter about sexting has infinitely more power than a dad with a gun.

[Corraleno]

nm

 

Edited June 8, 2014 by Moderator
Can we do this without insults, please?

[myfunnybunch]

Is her father not intimidating? Dh says he wants to start working out now so when the time comes, he will be for boys interested in Lady Bug. He says that guys wouldn't dream of doing things to a daughter if the guy thinks the dad could beat him up. On the other hand, he thinks that if the guy thinks he could take the dad, he'll be more handsy/pushy with the daughter.

 

Does the dad own guns?

I am not typically this direct because I want to be kind, but in this case....That is one of the most bizarre and, quite frankly, unhealthy ways of viewing this issue I've run across from a parent. I am not surprised its origin is teenage boy brains.

 

Whoa.

 

Cat

[myfunnybunch]

I don't want to derail this topic, OP.

 

Do talk to the girl's parents. Even if they are not receptive, they need to know.

 

Do talk to your son. He's growing into a young man, so try to find a balance that honors your parental boundaries and his developmental stage, whatever that looks like for your family. Teens are so firmly in the grip of these new and interesting and exciting feelings. It's like walking a tightrope, trying to help him make wise choices without pushing him farther away.

 

Hugs.

 

Cat

[hillfarm]

I live in a rural area where it is the norm for a father to present the most intimidating image possible to boys interested in his daughters. The intended message is that the young men are about to date a girl who has backup. The girl is expected to stand up for herself. However, we all know of situations where the girl was overpowered and abused. The concerned fathers in my area want the boys to know that if they harm their daughters, those boys will experience the wrath of an enraged, irate, and not ineffective father. In other words, there will be consequences well beyond those a teen aged girl can administer.

 

I suppose there are some boys who have bad intentions and who prefer to date only those girls who have no backup or who have only ineffective backup. Around here, if the boy is a decent sort, usually the father of the girl makes a concerted effort to get to know him and they often end up being good friends even after the original boy/girl relationship breaks up. I know of several men who still go hunting or fishing with one of their dd's previous boyfriends.

 

From what I have heard, the only boys who are afraid of these intimidating fathers are those who have bad intent. If the boy does not have any bad motives, then the appearance of the father is not a concern since there will be no need for any intervention to correct bad/harmful behavior.

 

My dd is not dating yet, so I do not have first hand experience with this.

 

 

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I live in a rural area where it is the norm for a father to present the most intimidating image possible to boys interested in his daughters. The intended message is that the young men are about to date a girl who has backup. The girl is expected to stand up for herself. However, we all know of situations where the girl was overpowered and abused. The concerned fathers in my area want the boys to know that if they harm their daughters, those boys will experience the wrath of an enraged, irate, and not ineffective father. In other words, there will be consequences well beyond those a teen aged girl can administer.

 

I suppose there are some boys who have bad intentions and who prefer to date only those girls who have no backup or who have only ineffective backup. Around here, if the boy is a decent sort, usually the father of the girl makes a concerted effort to get to know him and they often end up being good friends even after the original boy/girl relationship breaks up. I know of several men who still go hunting or fishing with one of their dd's previous boyfriends.

 

From what I have heard, the only boys who are afraid of these intimidating fathers are those who have bad intent. If the boy does not have any bad motives, then the appearance of the father is not a concern since there will be no need for any intervention to correct bad/harmful behavior.

 

My dd is not dating yet, so I do not have first hand experience with this.

 

Except this situation has nothing to do with a young woman being abused.

[Anne]

You have two issues here, imo:   one is the lying/trust issues surrounding the ipod/phone.  I would deal with that as matter-of-factly as I possibly could, and the consequence would be electronics removal for a specific length of time.

 

But the bigger issue is your son's behavior with the girl.  If it were my son, I would probably spend my energies there.  I would do my very best not to approach this antagonistically with him.  I would definitely show the parents of the girl his ipod - they would then be free to do whatever they decided to do - I can't be in charge of other adults.  I would do my best to approach my son as a young man approaching adulthood.  Talk about social media appropriateness, talk about becoming a father at 15, etc.  Lots of discussion about our family's values and his goals for his life, and how this kind of behavior could affect those goals.

 

:grouphug:

 

Anne

 

 

[Farrar]

In my experience, the more that parents try to coerce and punish kids for what is pretty normal at this age - being interested in s*x, feeling that heady "in love" stuff, etc. - the worse you make the situation.

 

I would second dealing with things separately.  The electronics stuff is one issue.  He violated the rules, he lied.  He deserves a consequence.  The sending of photos is another issue.  It's dangerous for both of them because of legal issues - kids can go to jail for sharing images like that, whether that's justified or not, it's the reality.  And then the physical stuff and the desire to see the girlfriend is another issue, one that's much more complex and that deserves much more sympathy and a gentler approach.

[jhschool]

I loved PP's post about we need to be the brains for our teens.

 

Although I really like the 'girls need to be their own boundary keepers,'

(I actually love that statement!)

I think the other PP's comment about the fathers being tough shouldn't be jumped

on like that.  That PP was just trying to share her own dh's experiences

as a teen.  There is no need to be mean about it about his ethics.

If ethics were all that was going on here, the OP wouldn't be finding 

people's bottoms on her son's phone.  There is a certain level of brainless

impulses that unfortunately have a big role here.

 

Back to the issue:  I wasn't sure if OP is OK with her DS having sex.  If she

is OK with it, and if he is OK with it and the girl is OK with it, (maybe her

parents too--I think they should know as well), then they all

need to have a conversation about birth control (pill + condoms should be

supplied by parents or at local clinic); if one of the parties is not OK with it,

it's time to start a big conversation with the kids.  It sounds like the young

people are OK with it.  But I think OP has to be very clear about it:  if it's

yes, then OP has to help guide this (I know it sounds weird, but someone

has to provide the cash for the birth control and make sure they get decent

sex education).  If it's no, you shouldn't be having sex, OP should be very,

very clear about it, and possibly provide the birth control regardless of

her approval/disapproval.  They definitely shouldn't be ignored and left

to their own decision making without any birth control.  

 

I personally think 15-year-olds shouldn't be having sex, but I don't think

my personal opinion should be imposed on OP's kid and girlfriend.

 

I think the sexting is ridiculous and unnecessary.  It could also be harmful

to both of them in the future, because some of those images could end up

in the wrong place and pop up later when you don't want them showing up.

Job interviews, her future husband if these two don't end up together, her

future children, etc.  Who wants that photo to come back?

[hillfarm]

Back up ? Cultural differences are so interesting.

 

Yes, they certainly are. And IMU, are generally to be respected as the right of others to live differently than we do and not as something deserving of ridicule by those who do not understand or share the particular difference.

 

How are young men given to understand that they may not harm/abuse someone's daughter in your culture? How well does your method work?

 

[TechWife]

They need to know that the possibility exists for them to  be charged with a felony - possession and distribution of child pornography. The sentence is 20 years in prison and could lead to having to register as a sex offender if convicted. I'm not sure if there have been any convictions, but there have been arrests. 

 

ETA:  I see one recent conviction in Canada. It looks like it will be appealed. I am not familiar with the legal system in Canada, so I don't know how this could play itself out.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Yes, they certainly are. And IMU, are generally to be respected as the right of others to live differently than we do and not as something deserving of ridicule by those who do not understand or share the particular difference.

 

How are young men given to understand that they may not harm/abuse someone's daughter in your culture? How well does your method work?

 

 

1.) The OP said nothing about harm/abuse.

2.) I don't believe there is any evidence that girls with "intimidating" fathers suffer abuse less frequently, and trying to put that out there as a defense potentially does more harm than good.  Girls should not be victimized regardless of what their fathers look like, and that is the message we should be giving boys. Period.

 

Back to the OP, I agree completely with others that you should approach this as 2 or 3 separate issues.  I would also inform the girl's parents of the pictures as she is potentially violating federal law (if in the US) if she is sending pictures of herself which meet the criteria for being CP.

[Corraleno]

The concerned fathers in my area want the boys to know that if they harm their daughters, those boys will experience the wrath of an enraged, irate, and not ineffective father. In other words, there will be consequences well beyond those a teen aged girl can administer.

 

And those consequences consist of... what exactly? Daddy will beat the sh*t out of them? Fill them full of lead shot? How does having a daddy in prison for assault or attempted murder make things better for the girl who was abused? 

[Corraleno]

How are young men given to understand that they may not harm/abuse someone's daughter in your culture? How well does your method work?

 

In my culture — which is the US —harming or abusing a teenage girl is illegal and should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

 

Assaulting a teenage boy is also illegal and should be fully prosecuted.

[MomtoCandJ]

And those consequences consist of... what exactly? Daddy will beat the sh*t out of them? Fill them full of lead shot? How does having a daddy in prison for assault or attempted murder make things better for the girl who was abused?

In most cases violence is not needed. A stern talking to with possible law enforcement involved is all that's need.

[Corraleno]

In most cases violence is not needed. A stern talking to with possible law enforcement involved is all that's need.

 

In which case, the size & beefiness of the dad, and whether he owns a gun, is completely irrelevant.

[Farrar]

Yes, they certainly are. And IMU, are generally to be respected as the right of others to live differently than we do and not as something deserving of ridicule by those who do not understand or share the particular difference.

 

How are young men given to understand that they may not harm/abuse someone's daughter in your culture? How well does your method work?

 

I don't think anyone is ridiculing it. I think we're saying it's sexist and dangerous. Sexist to imply that only a man can draw a young woman's boundaries. Dangerous to send that message to young men.

 

The method that works, IMO, is teaching young men to respect women across the board.

 

And, ftr, I'm pretty sure we aren't experiencing a cultural difference. I'm from the south. My father is a gun toting good ol boy type.

[Jean in Newcastle]

OP, you are very new here and I spent a few minutes looking at your blog and your profile.  It looks like your ds is adopted?  The lies and the fact that he calls his girlfriend's mom "Mom" are both pretty common behaviors for adopted kids.  I honestly think that you need more than the typical advice here.  I would suggest family counseling with someone experienced with adoption issues.  

[LucyStoner]

I live in a rural area where it is the norm for a father to present the most intimidating image possible to boys interested in his daughters. The intended message is that the young men are about to date a girl who has backup. The girl is expected to stand up for herself. However, we all know of situations where the girl was overpowered and abused. The concerned fathers in my area want the boys to know that if they harm their daughters, those boys will experience the wrath of an enraged, irate, and not ineffective father. In other words, there will be consequences well beyond those a teen aged girl can administer.

 

I suppose there are some boys who have bad intentions and who prefer to date only those girls who have no backup or who have only ineffective backup. Around here, if the boy is a decent sort, usually the father of the girl makes a concerted effort to get to know him and they often end up being good friends even after the original boy/girl relationship breaks up. I know of several men who still go hunting or fishing with one of their dd's previous boyfriends.

 

From what I have heard, the only boys who are afraid of these intimidating fathers are those who have bad intent. If the boy does not have any bad motives, then the appearance of the father is not a concern since there will be no need for any intervention to correct bad/harmful behavior.

 

My dd is not dating yet, so I do not have first hand experience with this.

What abuse is happening here? It sounds like the 15 year olds are in a mutually agreeable relationship. She's sending him pictures. Wanting to have sex with someone your own age is not inherently abusive.

 

15 year olds want to have sex. No shocker there. 15 year olds really shouldn't have sex. No duh. Parents need to talk to 15 year olds about not creating or possessing child pornography. Parents need to talk to their kids about the ramifications of early sexual activity and do all they can to help their children make the choice to delay sexual activity, realizing that these conversations are best started BEFORE THE KIDS GET TO THE PLANNING TO DO IT STAGE.

[LucyStoner]

This is based on Dh's experience as a teenage boy, and conversations with his male teenage friends. He graduated high school 11 years ago, so the memory is fairly fresh still.

See my husband was a teenaged boy too. One who dated some girls who offered to have sex with him and yet because he had decided to wait until he was older and with someone he loved, he said thanks but no thanks. Even in the middle of hormone fueled make out sessions. And he respected the girls he dated equally, regardless of if they were wanting to have sex or not. He just wasn't ready and knew that and stuck to his decision.

Edited June 8, 2014 by Moderator
No need to resort to insults.

[oneangelwaiting]

Whoa that is a lot of responses!

 

To answer some questions - no, we are definitely not OK with sexual relationships at this age. This girl lives an hour away (we moved about 10 months ago to a new city, they broke up briefly but got back together) so they see each other infrequently (maybe 2-3x per month; before that it was at school and school events only). However, her parents bend over backwards to let them see each other, DH and I are not so accommodating. Her parents have driven here to get him, taken him back to our old city for an event, driven him back here, then driven back home. That's 4+ hours of driving for 15 year old bf/gf to see each other. 

 

As far as the mom thing, we've been through counseling. I don't really care if he calls me mom or not; he moved in with us at 11, adopted at 13, so it's not like we've raised him from a baby. He just recently started calling DH dad, but he didn't really have much of a biological father in his life so perhaps that is easier for him. I do think it's weird that he will call all his friend's moms "mom" but not me, but I definitely don't insist on it and I do not expect that to change anytime soon, or possibly ever. It is what it is, there are for sure some underlying issues there but we are doing the best we can. 

 

We've had talks about sex, the problem is he seems to keep changing his mind. In his biological family (where he lived for his first 11 years) it's totally normal and expected to get pregnant (or get someone pregnant) in high school.  Other family/the government will take care of you, it's not that big of a deal.  He has slowly come around to the idea that perhaps that isn't the best way to go about things, so he said he didn't want any kids until he's 18 and he has also said he didn't want to have sex at all until he's 18 but at this rate I don't think the odds look too great. As far as I can tell based on their conversations they haven't yet.  We've had a lot of talks about sex, he has a lot of questions about things and I try to answer as best as I can without getting to awkward. He is pretty open about stuff usually, honestly the stuff he says to me and DH sometimes I can't imagine ever saying to anyone, I'd be way too embarrassed! He is talking about being married to this girl and having kids with her and whatnot, which in a way I guess I should be glad he's not a player but I also think that can make it a lot easier to make mistakes.

 

Also after talking some more with my husband, he said that he (DH) could potentially get into trouble for child porn because of the fact that DS's phone is in DH's name, and also because the stuff on the iPod was sent over our wi-fi which is also in DH's name! I didn't even think about that but that is pretty scary.

 

Thanks for the input, we will definitely be talking to her parents. His phone has been shut off for a while now and I just checked the iPod today so now we have to figure out exactly where to go from here. Kids really ought to come with a manual.  :sad:

[Jenny in Florida]

 

How are young men given to understand that they may not harm/abuse someone's daughter in your culture? How well does your method work?

 

 

I guess we teach our boys that girls/women are people with rights and feelings, that guys have no more right to "abuse" females than they do other males and that we expect them to treat all other people with respect and care.

 

It seems to be working just fine for the kids we know.

[myfunnybunch]

We've had talks about sex, the problem is he seems to keep changing his mind. In his biological family (where he lived for his first 11 years) it's totally normal and expected to get pregnant (or get someone pregnant) in high school. Other family/the government will take care of you, it's not that big of a deal. He has slowly come around to the idea that perhaps that isn't the best way to go about things, so he said he didn't want any kids until he's 18 and he has also said he didn't want to have sex at all until he's 18 but at this rate I don't think the odds look too great. As far as I can tell based on their conversations they haven't yet. We've had a lot of talks about sex, he has a lot of questions about things and I try to answer as best as I can without getting to awkward. He is pretty open about stuff usually, honestly the stuff he says to me and DH sometimes I can't imagine ever saying to anyone, I'd be way too embarrassed! He is talking about being married to this girl and having kids with her and whatnot, which in a way I guess I should be glad he's not a player but I also think that can make it a lot easier to make mistakes.

He sounds very 15. All over the map trying to balance his head, his heart, and his hormones. Hugs. It sounds to me like you've got a good plan: Talk to the other parents, set boundaries about the electronics use, stay open to questions and discussions about sex, encourage him to make wise choices and break that family cycle.

 

You're right, it would be so much easier if they came with a manual! I think it sounds like you're doing great, especially given the circumstances. Hang in there.

 

Cat

[theYoungerMrsWarde]

*shrug* I was skeptical when Dh told me that about teenage boys, too. I just thought the perspective might be useful to the OP, as I have never been a teenage male.

[shage]

Yes, they certainly are. And IMU, are generally to be respected as the right of others to live differently than we do and not as something deserving of ridicule by those who do not understand or share the particular difference.

 

How are young men given to understand that they may not harm/abuse someone's daughter in your culture? How well does your method work?

 

 

I am intimately familiar with the mindset you describe.

 

The question for me would be how does the good ole boy method work in an era of easy access to technology and social media?  Because the underlying assumption in such an approach is that a dad can keep the boys physically away from his daughter.  I would suggest that with technology, that is a faulty assumption. 

 

That the is one of the main problems the OP is expressing, yes?  It is almost impossible to keep 2 teens with cell phone access separate.  Even removing the cell phones, the technology is so ubiquitous that they find it when motivated.  Back in the day a young woman would have to sneak out of the house to be with a young man that her father scared off with a gun.  These days, she can sit in her room and text regardless of dad's authority and physical presence.

 

JME but the parents who are successfully influencing their children in this area are building close relationships with their kids and having the hard conversations. 

 

It's a different skill set than parents who lived 50 years ago.  That's my theory anyway.  As times change, so needs to change the parenting.

[Catwoman]

Back up ? Cultural differences are so interesting.

FWIW, I was a teenage girl once (OK, it was back in the dark ages, right before fire was invented, but I still sort of remember it... ;)) and I never, ever knew of any girl's father trying to intimidate any of her boyfriends. Not even one.

 

Maybe it's some sort of regional thing, but I always assumed that was the kind of stuff that happened in old Western movies, not in today's world.

[SunnyDays]

I don't have much to add. Keep communication open. As others have said, treat the desires with respect... Values can be shared gently and the important thing is to really make potential consequences clear. The trust issues with electronics and the pictures, yeah, those are different issues that would certainly come with consequences at our house.

 

[LucyStoner]

*shrug* I was skeptical when Dh told me that about teenage boys, too. I just thought the perspective might be useful to the OP, as I have never been a teenage male.

Yes, because the dim view of male adolescents, that they are intent on one thing and one thing only and need to scared off by scary daddy with a gun, that's really very uncommon and unique to your husband's teen years. That's an extraordinarily uncommon perspective. Right.

 

I think our young people, male and female, deserve so much better than that nonsense.

[shage]

Whoa that is a lot of responses!

 

To answer some questions - no, we are definitely not OK with sexual relationships at this age. This girl lives an hour away (we moved about 10 months ago to a new city, they broke up briefly but got back together) so they see each other infrequently (maybe 2-3x per month; before that it was at school and school events only). However, her parents bend over backwards to let them see each other, DH and I are not so accommodating. Her parents have driven here to get him, taken him back to our old city for an event, driven him back here, then driven back home. That's 4+ hours of driving for 15 year old bf/gf to see each other. 

 

As far as the mom thing, we've been through counseling. I don't really care if he calls me mom or not; he moved in with us at 11, adopted at 13, so it's not like we've raised him from a baby. He just recently started calling DH dad, but he didn't really have much of a biological father in his life so perhaps that is easier for him. I do think it's weird that he will call all his friend's moms "mom" but not me, but I definitely don't insist on it and I do not expect that to change anytime soon, or possibly ever. It is what it is, there are for sure some underlying issues there but we are doing the best we can. 

 

We've had talks about sex, the problem is he seems to keep changing his mind. In his biological family (where he lived for his first 11 years) it's totally normal and expected to get pregnant (or get someone pregnant) in high school.  Other family/the government will take care of you, it's not that big of a deal.  He has slowly come around to the idea that perhaps that isn't the best way to go about things, so he said he didn't want any kids until he's 18 and he has also said he didn't want to have sex at all until he's 18 but at this rate I don't think the odds look too great. As far as I can tell based on their conversations they haven't yet.  We've had a lot of talks about sex, he has a lot of questions about things and I try to answer as best as I can without getting to awkward. He is pretty open about stuff usually, honestly the stuff he says to me and DH sometimes I can't imagine ever saying to anyone, I'd be way too embarrassed! He is talking about being married to this girl and having kids with her and whatnot, which in a way I guess I should be glad he's not a player but I also think that can make it a lot easier to make mistakes.

 

Also after talking some more with my husband, he said that he (DH) could potentially get into trouble for child porn because of the fact that DS's phone is in DH's name, and also because the stuff on the iPod was sent over our wi-fi which is also in DH's name! I didn't even think about that but that is pretty scary.

 

Thanks for the input, we will definitely be talking to her parents. His phone has been shut off for a while now and I just checked the iPod today so now we have to figure out exactly where to go from here. Kids really ought to come with a manual.  :sad:

 

To comment on the child porn:  This falls under federal statutes and the laws have not kept up with the technology and social norms.  So yes, your husband is technically correct.  However, most jurisdictions are taking a more nuanced view on all this.  The way the laws are written, the teens could be held liable for production and distribution which is harsher than possession should a zealous DA decide to prosecute. 

 

If you husband is concerned, have him contact an attorney and get advice on it. 

[Danestress]

Yes, they certainly are. And IMU, are generally to be respected as the right of others to live differently than we do and not as something deserving of ridicule by those who do not understand or share the particular difference.

 

How are young men given to understand that they may not harm/abuse someone's daughter in your culture? How well does your method work?

 

I think you are making a common presumption that when two teenagers are too intimate, the boy is to blame and the girl is a victim.

 

And this is one reason I would probably ask to speak to the girl's parents and also perhaps meet with the kids together. I would want to protect my son. from allegations that he has pressured, abused, or manipulated the girl. I think her enthusiasm for this - her photos and texts, need to be seen by her parents. She needs to know that we know. You have to deal with the problem you actually have and not a problem you don't have. It seems to me that the real problem is that this girl and boy both actually want to try some things that scare the parents.

 

But what to do after all the cards are on the table is tough. I am not sure what I would do, but it probably would include my best arguments in favor of waiting, some frank discussion of birth control and STDs, and a talk with my son about legal issues and self protection.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

To comment on the child porn:  This falls under federal statutes and the laws have not kept up with the technology and social norms.  So yes, your husband is technically correct.  However, most jurisdictions are taking a more nuanced view on all this.  The way the laws are written, the teens could be held liable for production and distribution which is harsher than possession should a zealous DA decide to prosecute. 

 

If you husband is concerned, have him contact an attorney and get advice on it. 

 

The husband would not be criminally responsible simply because his name is on the accounts as it still comes down to who actually transmits/possesses the illegal material.  For example, if someone does not secure their wireless service and someone uses it for illegal purposes, the owner could be investigated if the material is traced to that account, but they would not be criminally responsible if they did not actually download the material.  This has been fairly well established in cases where someone has borrowed a neighbor's connection or used ab account owned by a family member for illegal activities.

 

However, you are correct that a teen sending this material could be criminally charged with production. And this is DEFINITELY something no one in your family would want to deal with.

[shage]

The husband would not be criminally responsible simply because his name is on the accounts as it still comes down to who actually transmits/possesses the illegal material.  For example, if someone does not secure their wireless service and someone uses it for illegal purposes, the account could be investigated if the material is traced to that account, but they would not be criminally responsible if they did not actually download the material.  This has been fairly well established in cases where someone has borrowed a neighbor's connection or used ab account owned by a family member for illegal activities.

 

However, you are correct that a teen sending this material could be criminally charged with production.

 

There was a local to us case where the image was distributed to quite a few teens.  Most of the teens were given a diversionary sentence of attending a series of seminars.  The young woman who took the selfie was placed in the same class as other teens who had maliciously spread the image.

 

Oy.

 

The laws in the this area really need cleaned up but there is a fear on the part of politicians that influence them to vote for harsher and harsher penalties instead of saner ones.

[Catwoman]

Yes, because the dim view of male adolescents, that they are intent on one thing and one thing only and need to scared off by scary daddy with a gun, that's really very uncommon and unique to your husband's teen years. That's an extraordinarily uncommon perspective. Right.

 

I think our young people, male and female, deserve so much better than that nonsense.

:iagree:

 

All I know is that when my ds starts dating, if he comes home and tells me that the girl's father tried to physically intimidate him, I would tell him to find a new girlfriend, because that girl's dad had a screw loose.

 

That kind of Caveman Dad behavior would be completely unacceptable. It's absolutely ridiculous.

[Catwoman]

I think you are making a common presumption that when two teenagers are too intimate, the boy is to blame and the girl is a victim.

:iagree:

 

As the mother of a teenaged son, I find that kind of attitude incredibly offensive. I have spoken with other moms in my area and they have said that their sons have had problems with overly pushy GIRLS. The girls were the aggressive pursuers, sending highly inappropriate emails, photos, and texts -- and the boys were very uncomfortable with it.

 

So it goes both ways, and to assume otherwise is to be very naive -- and unfair.

[Lady Florida.]

 

 

I would second dealing with things separately.  The electronics stuff is one issue.  He violated the rules, he lied.  He deserves a consequence.  The sending of photos is another issue.  It's dangerous for both of them because of legal issues - kids can go to jail for sharing images like that, whether that's justified or not, it's the reality.  And then the physical stuff and the desire to see the girlfriend is another issue, one that's much more complex and that deserves much more sympathy and a gentler approach.

 

Before I follow the other off topic part of this thread, I want to address the OP and say I agree with the above. I think you have more than one issue and each one needs to be addressed separately. 

 

 

 

1. How are young men given to understand that they may not harm/abuse someone's daughter in your culture? 2. How well does your method work?

 

 

I'm in the U.S., so that's my culture.

 

1. By teaching them to respect all people regardless of gender. By talking honestly about sex and feelings and teenage hormones, and by not waiting until the dating starts to do this. It's all about raising them to respect boundaries (hint: in order to teach someone to respect boundaries you have to respect that person's boundaries).

 

2. It has worked well with all of the young men I know (including the ones my adult stepson's age - this isn't my first time dealing with a teenage boy's dating life).

 

FWIW, I was a teenage girl once (OK, it was back in the dark ages, right before fire was invented, but I still sort of remember it... ;)) and I never, ever knew of any girl's father trying to intimidate any of her boyfriends. Not even one.

 

 

 

The only time I ever heard of it was as a joke. I'm rather, um, ancient, but even in my teenage years it was recognized as the wrong approach - so much so that it was ridiculed and turned into a joke.

 

 

:iagree:

 

All I know is that when my ds starts dating, if he comes home and tells me that the girl's father tried to physically intimidate him, I would tell him to find a new girlfriend, because that girl's dad had a screw loose.

 

That kind of Caveman Dad behavior would be completely unacceptable. It's absolutely ridiculous.

 

:iagree: It also assumes that teenage boys are nothing but walking sex hormones and don't have actual feelings outside the desire for sex. It's offensive to everyone - the boys and their parents, as well as the girls and their fathers. Also, where are the girls' mothers in these scenarios? This daddy-with-a-gun business perpetuates the patriarchial, daughter as property mindset.

 

:iagree:

 

As the mother of a teenaged son, I find that kind of attitude incredibly offensive. I have spoken with other moms in my area and they have said that their sons have had problems with overly pushy GIRLS. The girls were the aggressive pursuers, sending highly inappropriate emails, photos, and texts -- and the boys were very uncomfortable with it.

 

So it goes both ways, and to assume otherwise is to be very naive -- and unfair.

 

Yes! I've seen this a lot. Not with my son, but with several of his friends. Girls can be quite pushy and I know of boys who are very uncomfortable with that.

 

I don't have my head in the sand. I know my son is a teenager and that at this time in his life, sex is very much on his mind. I also know how his dad and I raised him. I know he respects his girlfriend's boundaries (they've actually had a discussion about it, which I thought was pretty darn mature of them). Fortunately I also know her dad respects him as well.

[Reefgazer]

I'm not sure what I would do about the phone (which is really a lying to you issue), but I would be having a serious talk with both of them at the same time about lying, birth control, the legal ramifications of passing explicit pictures back and forth, and responsibility.  Might even make them come up with a written, practical plan for how they would support a baby (sans government handouts).  I don't think you can keep two people apart who really want to be together, but you can make them take responsibility for their actions, which would include the above and, if your son feels he is so adult, he can pay for his own cell phone, expenses to see her, and entertainment.

We are pretty internet strict. DS has an iPhone which we ask him to turn off at a certain time every night, not take it to school, not have it in the bathroom or his bedroom. He also has a "serious" girlfriend, they have been together about a year and a half.

We found out not once, but twice that he was secretly planning to meet up with her. We took his phone away for a time, had a talk about trust etc, pretty sure he, my husband and me all cried. We felt like he was really sorry, he got his phone back and all privileges with no changes.

Then we found out that he had his ipod touch (he told us he lent it to a friend) and was using it somehow to talk to his girlfriend all night, at school, take pictures, etc., so it was basically the same as having his phone only he kept it hidden from us. We also found out he had had his iPod during the time we had taken his phone away, so obviously that wasn't much of a punishment.

I looked in his iPod today. He is talking to his girlfriend about wanting to have sex, "doing things" at the movies besides making out (actual word usage is fondling). He has pictures of her butt in a thong and a close up of her upper body in a string bikini. There was lots of mention in their texts of deleting pictures so I'm sure other pictures have been shared but just deleted.

Her parents are the ones who usually instigate their "dates", he calls her mom "Mom" (not me). He just turned fifteen a month ago, she is a few months older.

What would you do? Would you talk to her parents and let them know about what she is doing with her phone? They seem to trust her implicitly. FWIW my husband and i are pretty young and we feel like we are maybe more suspicious than other parents because we remember how bad we were!

 

[Katy]

It sounds like you have a good plan.

 

Taking the power cord for the wifi or internet router to bed with you at night will prevent *most* internet access, as long as your kindles/ipads/ipods/etc don't have their own wireless access.

 

While personally 15 sounds too young to have sex, I wouldn't consequence the conversations along those lines because I think it's fairly typical.  I don't like to pretend I have the power to ban a child from having sex because clearly if they want to have it they will find a way to have it, and I don't want to make sex a way for them to rebel against me.  Their decision needs to be wholly about what is right for them, and not a currency of power for them to use against me.  Maybe that wouldn't be the case for this boy, but it would be for some kids.

 

I would consequence the lying about the ipod, the sneaky internet use, and the pictures, and I would talk to her parents *AND SHOW THEM the photos that were sent.  I would meet them to show them the photos - not email or send them back to them due to not wanting ME to be guilty of something like that.

 

Like it or not, those photos were illegal, at least in the US.

 

It's possible her parents will consequence them enough.  If not, I would ask him what he thought appropriate consequences would be.  Usually if they're feeling guilty (not angry and rebellious), I find my kids choose a slightly worse punishment for themselves at that age than I would.  However I might include some sort of writing a paper for me about the risks of illicit text messages for teens into their consequence, and they probably wouldn't think about that, and I might require they interview someone at the local police department or DA's office to ask about legal consequences.

 

I would ask him why he feels comfortable calling GF's mother "Mom" but not you, but probably not during the same conversation as the rest of these issues.

 

I don't agree with the concept that a girl needs to be the gatekeeper of the relationship.  I'm a little incredulous that anyone thinks that in this day and age.

[oneangelwaiting]

I really appreciate all of the thoughts and responses.

 

I did call the girl's mom and told her about everything I had found (including DS trying to meet her secretly, the pictures, the topic of their conversations, etc.). I couldn't really meet with her since she lives so far away and I wanted to let her know ASAP.  She said thank you and she took it pretty well. I think she was a little disappointed in her daughter but you can't really blame her.  I tried to make it very clear that we weren't trying to butt in, but that if she were our daughter we'd want to know. And I also let her know I wasn't mad at her daughter or anything like that either.  

 

Our talk with DS went well.  We talked about the risks to both him and her of child porn charges, and he said he understood. We talked about how if he loves her that he needs to look out for her and not do things that put her at risk, and also if she does things putting herself at risk he needs to try to talk to her about it and be her protector.  And we talked about how hard it would be for her if she got pregnant (not saying it wouldn't be hard for him, but let's face it, it would be harder for her as the person who has to carry and give birth to a child while in high school) and again, if he loves her he needs to be looking out for her best interest.  He also seems to be the one pushing the envelope with their physical relationship based on what we saw so we talked about respecting boundaries, manipulation and controlling behaviour (on his part) and that he should decide now how far he wants to go (since he still says he doesn't want to have sex right now) and steer things away from crossing that line, and to not require that she shows love to him in a certain way. I am sure that sounds bad but there was one thing he said to her that just made me want to throw up it was so awful and controlling, and I just don't think he really had thought about it that way.  And with regards to the trust issues, we talked about integrity and what that means and that we can't control what he does but we do want him to make the best decisions he can in whatever situation he is and we want to be able to trust him.

 

He said thank you for talking to him about it and seemed really receptive.  We are going to let him have limited access to his phone and start earning more time on it based on his trustworthiness and responsible behaviour that we see.  So I guess hopefully we at least gave him some things to think about and we'll see what happens I guess. 

[Catwoman]

You sound like you handled this great!

:iagree:

 

I'm glad you spoke with the mom, and it's very kind of you to empathize with her situation.

 

I also think you handled the discussion with your son very well, and I hope he took it to heart.

[Melissa in Australia]

well done

[Kathryn]

I agree, it sounds like you handled it beautifully.

[Trish]

I wouldn't be facilitating these meetings of kids who live an hour away from each other.

 

The price of gas, and diapers, being what they are these days.