wendyroo Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Peter is just a couple months shy of turning 5. We were at the store yesterday... Peter: Why is that man mopping the floor? (I thought the answer was obviously self evident since the floor was a slushy, salty mess, but I answered matter of factly...) Me: Because it is dirty. Peter: What is dirty? Me: The floor. Peter: What floor? It makes me want to tear my hair out, but he seems genuinely perplexed like he was suddenly thrust into a conversation about nuclear fusion instead of me answering his simple question about a concrete subject. And, yes, his hearing has been checked many times (due to his moderate speech delay) and it has always come back perfect. It is like a torturous recitation of who's on first all day with him. These are actual transcripts of conversations I have had with him in the last few days... Peter: Mama, how old are you? Me: 32 Peter: What? Me: I'm 32 years old. Peter: Who? Me: ME!! The person you asked about. Peter: Mama, can I play on the computer? Me: Yes. Peter: Yes? Me: Yes. Peter: Can I play on the computer? Me: YES!! Peter: What do you mean? He is so smart (reading, teaching himself multiplication, explaining how steam creates condensation on windows, etc) and yet so dense. His eyes and ears are always open, but all that data doesn't seem to add up to much for him. This is not a new issue, but what seemed normal at 2, quirky at 3 and unusual at 4 is quickly becoming concerning as he cruises toward 5. The other day we were skyping with my mom and she told Peter she would draw him a picture of her coffee mug to show him where it had broken. We watched her lay out her paper and pick up her pen. The tip of the pen had not quite touched the paper when Peter asked her, "Can I see the picture now Nana?" We both just looked at him like he had grown two heads. Does he truly not know that there is no picture to see yet? Seeing as he is my oldest I never know what is normal and what is related to his anxiety/OCD/control issues. The pediatric psychologist was no help and Peter's counselor doesn't know what to do to help (or even identify) some of his issues. I really want to help Peter and help Peter's counselor help Peter. Any suggestions? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 This sounds like a short-term memory problem? It doesn't sound like anything I've seen in 4 year olds before. ETA: I would cross-post this on the Learning Challenges or Special Needs board for ideas on who could best evaluate if there is a problem and how to handle it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lara in Colo Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 This doesn't sound like anything I went through with my children. I don't have any suggestions except to write down the conversations and talk to his Dr at the next appt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustEm Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 My son just turned 5 and I've never encountered anything like that with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dory Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 None of my kids did that and I have a kid with auditory processing problems. The closest we came to that is when he would ask me to repeat what I said. I would wonder about short term memory problems. My boys are both gifted and will sometimes they ask questions that I think are silly but upon further probing have realized that they are trying to dig for something deeper and I'm just not noticing because I don't expect it from a kid their age. My youngest will play with my words along the lines of ... Ian: Why did Grandpa say that? Me: He was just pulling your leg. Ian: He didn't touch my leg. Me: That's just a figure of speech. Ian: How can speech have a figure if you can't see it? Me: That just means that it's a saying that most people recognize as meaning something specific. Pulling your leg, means he was teasing you. Ian: Why? Me: Because he's Grandpa and he likes to tease. Ian: Why is he Grandpa. You get the idea. It keeps going until I firmly tell him enough. I have never had him actually seem to not remember what we were talking about though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbutton Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Please tell me you've had a thorough vision check. Our younger son was screened at the typical age (preschool-ish), and we should have had him checked much sooner. His eyes are terrible. We saw few symptoms ahead of time because his eyes were probably always bad, but what a difference glasses make! He should be dilated for all exams--young eyes can compensate for a lot unless fatigued, and the dilation keeps that from happening. You might need to push for this. Our son's first exam was dilated, but the doctor did not dilate the second time, and our son's glasses were updated wrong as a result. The office also forgot to check the glasses when they came in, and one lens was made wrong. If we had not caught the error a few months later, he could have developed a lazy eye (and nearly did--he barely missed needing an eye patch). We are now seeing a children's specialist who is also a COVD optometrist (developmental optometrist). People often don't realize they have vision trouble. It happens gradually to most people--one woman I know said that she complained to her high school teacher for months about using old markers on the overhead projector. She didn't realize it was her vision, not bad markers. By the time she got glasses (after she started working for an optometrist!), her vision was really, really bad. I've heard many of these stories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MistyMountain Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 None of my kids did that and my oldest does have a hard time paying attention to longer stories. She did ask silly questions and then ask more and more about it but she didn't forget what the question was. My kids were not precocious readers and did not teach themselves math like your son. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amy in NH Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 My dd will ask a question and then completely not hear the answer and ask again, or she'll sit through a conversation about something and then ask a question that was answered not a minute ago. I think she's just thinking aloud and still lost in her own thoughts, so she's not really paying attention. But what you're describing is different. It seems like a short term memory and/or sequencing problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Strawberry Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 It sounds like auditory processing problem. Like he is not tracking the flow of information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandelion Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 This is not something I've ever experienced with either of my kids. As others have suggested, it sounds like some kind of memory, sequencing, or processing problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wendyroo Posted January 9, 2014 Author Share Posted January 9, 2014 It sounds like auditory processing problem. Like he is not tracking the flow of information. I know!! I have told everyone that - his ped, his various speech therapists, the pediatric psychologist, the counselor, the ENT, anyone who is even remotely connected to his care. There are many, in my mind, clear signs. An hour ago at dinner I said, "it might work" and he asked what is ih-twerk? He mishears common words and phrases half a dozen times a day. If I ask both Peter and his 2 year old brother to pick up their socks you can see that it takes the words almost twice as long to register in Peter's brain as his brother's. I can increase and speed up Peter's comprehension by making sure he is looking at me when I speak and by slowing my words down and putting exaggerated pauses between them. But...I took him to a hearing center last year (when he was 3 and a half) and they tested his auditory processing and said it was fine. I'm not sure I buy it, because the whole test consisted of him listening to words through headphones and then repeating the words. Except, at that point in his life he was severely speech delayed. He was sitting on my lap during the test and I could not hear the test words, but I could hear him repeat them. It sounded like, "ah, oop, dih, ah-taa." The doctor said that Peter was hearing and processing the words just fine. I asked how she knew that when he was clearly mispronouncing them badly, and she said she could just tell from his reactions and lack of hesitation. So I'm left unsure how to proceed on that front. He's in speech therapy so I hope that some of that focus on sounds will help his ear better hear and discern words. Thank you everyone for your help. Wendy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeneralMom Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 This does not sound typical. I would have him evaluated by a pediatric occupational therapist. It might turn out to be nothing but they will be able to tell right away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammi K Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Sounds unusual for a 4 year old. My first thought was that he was asking a question without any real interest in the answer but your examples don't support that. So, yes, perhaps a sequencing or memory issue. On the other hand I frequently have conversation like this with my young adult daughter......"Hey, Mom, do you think I can put this in the washer?" Well, what is the fabric...."Do you think it will shrink?" Well, tell me what the fabric cont......."If it shrinks will it shrink long way or wide way?" Well, generally you lose about ......"Do you think it will still fit me if it shrinks? I don't know, was it too long before you washed......."Never mind. I'll do it by hand." Glad I could help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilma Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 For me it sounds at least quirky, if not developmentally troublesome. If you play a remembering game, can he follow? Like say, "Apple, banana" and have him repeat, then do "Apple, banana, pear" and repeat, then "Apple, banana, pear, kiwi", or with numbers or letters or colors or names or vehicles or whatever? I think a four year old would usually be able to hold 4 things in order in their mind and be able to repeat them to you. That might give you an idea of whether it's a processing issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wendyroo Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share Posted January 10, 2014 For me it sounds at least quirky, if not developmentally troublesome. If you play a remembering game, can he follow? Like say, "Apple, banana" and have him repeat, then do "Apple, banana, pear" and repeat, then "Apple, banana, pear, kiwi", or with numbers or letters or colors or names or vehicles or whatever? I think a four year old would usually be able to hold 4 things in order in their mind and be able to repeat them to you. That might give you an idea of whether it's a processing issue? That's a great idea. I'll have to try that with him tomorrow. The hard part will be getting him to even give it a try. Understandably, he avoids or modifies activities that involve his weaknesses. His gross motor skills are weak so he can't / refuses to even try riding any sort of bike or trike. He can't make the hard c sound at all so he talks his way around words like car by calling them trucks, vans, vehicles, etc. Wendy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wendyroo Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share Posted January 10, 2014 Dp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 That doesn't seem familiar to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 That's a great idea. I'll have to try that with him tomorrow. The hard part will be getting him to even give it a try. Understandably, he avoids or modifies activities that involve his weaknesses. His gross motor skills are weak so he can't / refuses to even try riding any sort of bike or trike. He can't make the hard c sound at all so he talks his way around words like car by calling them trucks, vans, vehicles, etc. Wendy Is he in OT for any of this? Are you familiar with apraxia? I have no experience other than a dear friend's son having it, but these (speech, memory, gross motor...) seem to ring bells for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Absence seizures can make someone appear like he is not paying attention, or can't follow a conversation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubix Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 When they checked his hearing did they check each ear separately? With the other ear thoroughly occluded? I know someone who had profound hearing loss that passed many hearing tests because all the tests were given to both ears. It may explain why sometimes he's hearing the wrong thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Is he really asking the questions it seems like he is asking? I know I've gone around and around with my kids at times like that, but it is either because they aren't really paying attention for my answers or they are trying to ask something else, but don't know how to change the way they are asking their question for it to make sense to me. If that makes sense. :) It does seem unusual, but not to me if it is occassional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I think all you have described merits getting him evaluated by a specialist. My sons never stopped asking questions at that age but they always knew what they were asking from question to question and how the whole line of inquiry got started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausmumof3 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 My dd4 has nonsense conversations like this but when I get frustrated she starts laughing ... She's been playing all along. I think you have good advice to get it checked out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica_in_Switzerland Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I'll just repeat what everyone else has said. My soon-to-be five year old and I have some incredibly weird conversations, but not like what you've described. I'd have it checked out. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathryn Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Hmm. My four-year-old does this kind of thing sometimes and it drives me crazy. He seems pretty normal in every other way though. I haven't thought that there was something "wrong" with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbecueMom Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Mine frequently asks me the same question over and over, but I think it's because he wants a different answer. Or he freaks out when I say "yes" when he had this fit ready to go for when I say "no". He's like my mother - they've got 99 problems but 86 of them are imaginary situations planned out in their heads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I haven't heard of anything like that in kids, at least not when the kid is being serious. And from what you've posted, it doesn't sound like he's doing it just to mess with you. I agree that it sounds like it could be a short-term memory or seizure problem, and either of those possibilities warrants having him checked out. I would probably start with my family doctor and go from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snow Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Some of what you said sounds familiar with my ds. We've had that exact computer conversation. I think he's already decided what I am going to say and then when it doesn't match, he's confused. Not remembering what he's said mid-convo doesn't happen very often though. What happens to him more often is not being able to remember a certain word or phrase, or not being able to articulate his thoughts, which leads to great frustration. Hope you can find some answers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wendyroo Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 I know this is an old post but I searched for absence seizures and this popped up. I wondered how your son was doing now. In the last year, Peter has been diagnosed with autism and anxiety disorder. The bottom line seems to be that his brain is just not wired to pay any attention to other people...even if that other person is answering a question that Peter just asked!! His main forms of communication are monologues and interrogations during which he just keeps asking repetitive/nonsensical questions because his brain is not absorbing or understanding any of the answers that are being given. We still have many "who's on first" type conversations, but Peter's psychiatrist has advised that I cut them off early on and offer Peter a "re-do": "Peter, you asked me what the man was doing, and I answered, but I don't think you were paying any attention to what I said. Try asking the question again, but this time make sure you look right at me and be ready to really listen to my words. Make sure you pay attention, because then I am going to ask you to repeat what I said." Often, even after a re-do, he cannot repeat my answer or even the gist of my answer, but I am seeing slow, gradual improvement. Wendy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Tick Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Wow Wendy. That sounds so frustrating! What a lucky boy to have you looking out for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairfarmhand Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Honestly, all of kids do this. (Mine are from ages 7-17) They ask a question that they really don't care about and instantly forgot what came out of their mouth, because their brain moved on to something else. (PS. My dh has been known to do this too. It drives me totally BONKERS!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wendyroo Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 Wow Wendy. That sounds so frustrating! What a lucky boy to have you looking out for him. Sometimes it is enough to drive me to drink!! Peter's ability to listen and comprehend is very subject dependent. If we are talking about objective, black and white subjects, then he soaks up all the information. The other day he asked about an ad that said "30 percent off", and then listened raptly as I spent 10 minutes teaching him the basics of percentages. That afternoon I asked how he was doing on a jig saw puzzle and he said he was 86% done. I asked how he knew that, and he said that it was a 100 piece puzzle and he had 14 pieces left to put together. Clearly he had comprehended and was able to apply the information. OTOH, If we are talking about people, emotions, motivations, predictions or other subjective subjects, his comprehension is pretty much nil. The other day he asked in all seriousness why we had to open the garage door before we drove through...his brain just cannot think hypothetically ahead to figure out the likely outcome. Even if he could predict what would probably happen, he would be genuinely stumped as to whether people would react positively or negatively to that outcome: Me: Peter, I need you to stop tipping Spencer in his high chair like that. What do you think might happen? Peter: ???? Me: I worry that it might tip over with him in it. Would that be good or bad? Peter: Good?? Bad?? Maybe bad because then he wouldn't be at the table any more for lunch. :huh: Yeah, that's it exactly. My biggest worry about the high chair being tipped over with Spencer in it, is him leaving the table without being excused. :willy_nilly: Wendy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 :grouphug: (((Wendy))) :grouphug: I feel for you. Similar situation over here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 I know this is an old post but I searched for absence seizures and this popped up. I wondered how your son was doing now. You can start a new thread about absence seizures if you feel comfortable doing so. A few families here have kids with different types of seizures, including absence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Ahhhh ... This is familiar to me. My son had a phase like this where it seemed like he wanted textbook definitions and explanations of every word and situation. It drove me bananas. He started kindergarten at this time and was academically excelling (he is HG/PG) so it didn't worry me at the time and he grew out of it. It was a fairly short phase actually. Anyway if it seems worrisome to you, I would get it checked out for sure. I haven't read all the responses. This was not a ongoing thing earlier for my kid. He was highly verbal and asked lots of questions younger. But not specifically about language and situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Wow, my 4 yr old does this all the time. Drives me bonkers. She does have some speech issues, and is having a hearing test next month. She also has a brother with working memory issues and Aspergers, although she shows none of the signs of Aspergers. She could, I suppose, have the working memory issues though. She does seem to have ADHD, to the point it drives me crazy. (older brother has that too) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsheresomewhere Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Auditory processing can not be tested until age 7. They don't have anything really to measure by in the younger ages. Not all places are qualified to test yet say they are. So he may still have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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