What do you do when dh & you do not agree on further education for your children?

[Scarlett]

It is interesting how different people in the same religion view things. I am a member of a non mainstream conservative religion but I know no one who would feel or say what the father in the OP said. I often think people use their religion to carry out wonky and extreme views.

[Melissa in Australia]

It is interesting how different people in the same religion view things. I am a member of a non mainstream conservative religion but I know no one who would feel or say what the father in the OP said. I often think people use their religion to carry out wonky and extreme views.

 

It is interesting isn't it. I sometimes wonder if it was the local interpretation. Are members  allowed to encourage their children to get tertiary education in your area? I grew up in the same religion as you Scarlett. I left school at 16 and went straight into full time ministry and was held up as an example of exemplary behavior. Education was defiantly looked down on.

 

 

 

I absolutely agree that people use religion to carry out wonky and extreme views. some of the most wonky and extreme people I have met are the most religious. 

 

[Scarlett]

It is interesting isn't it. I sometimes wonder if it was the local interpretation. Are members allowed to encourage their children to get tertiary education in your area? I grew up in the same religion as you Scarlett. I left school at 16 and went straight into full time ministry and was held up as an example of exemplary behavior. Education was defiantly looked down on.

 

 

Education is not looked down upon at all. Even when I was graduating high school 30 years ago it wasn't...I didn't go to college for reasons totally unrelated to my religion that is for sure. ....to me it has been a common misunderstanding.....maybe it was your local interpretation ...i dont know...

[Melissa in Australia]

Education is not looked down upon at all. Even when I was graduating high school 30 years ago it wasn't...I didn't go to college for reasons totally unrelated to my religion that is for sure. ....to me it has been a common misunderstanding.....maybe it was your local interpretation ...i dont know...

 

Hmm... very interesting, maybe each country has slightly different understandings?

 

[FaithManor]

I am with Tibbie on this. It is a no brainer. Not only would dh never in a millions years have thought dd

should not pursue her dream of a chemistry degree/ pre-med degree, but he would just have to know I would

have steamrolled over him if he ever voiced any such thing!

 

1. For your dd 's sake, you stand your ground. If you do not, your relationship might never

recover. My great grandmother and grand father did this to my grandmother. She eventually caved to

marriage because they were going to toss her out of the house and forever shun her for going to business

school. The marriage was a disaster for about 15 years and though they did become a loving, devoted

couple later in life, the kids...my dad and his older sister in particular, were badly damaged from

the fall out of a momma who had not wanted to get married at 18 and be tied to home.

 

2. My grandmother took her resentment of her parents to the grave with her. There was NEVER any

reconciliation. OP, don't let that be you.

 

3. Parenting comes before marriage. Many do not agree with this, but here is where the rubber meets the

road.Unless one is forced into a marriagew ie. has no option due to religious or cultural issues, the

spouse is a choice that the consenting adult made. The child did not ask to be brought into this world

and has no choice and no option to change family. The parents he/she got is the luck of biology but that

set of parents controls every aspect of the child's life up to adulthood and the poor choices of the

parents profoundly affect the child's immediate future as an adult. Do the best you can by her period. Do

not let him stand in the way of this.

 

3. Follow Tibbie 's advice.

 

4. Word of warning. Standing in her way could make her like many of the youth that have couch surfed in

my home. DH and I have been blessed to assist late teen/young adults pick themselves up, choice a path,

and chart a course. To be honest, there are some days when I'm doing ACT prep with an 18 year old

"run away" or helping them fill out college or trade school apps or holding one in my arms while she sobs

uncontrollably over the broken relationship with her unyielding, unsupportive, chauvinistic parents that

I think I'd like to scream at these parents. Just.scream! Please don't be one of the parents that make

me want to lose my mind.

 

This isn't a hill. This is THE battlefield. It is a defining moment. Be there for your child and make her

top priority. Don't swerve. You can do it in a quiet, calm, methodical manner. You just simply choose not

to violate your own conscience in the matter.

 

That's the single biggest issue. We should not violate our own inner moral code for someone else. We do

have a tendancy in this wolrd to live to regret such violations. You will not regret helping your

daughter "Be all that she can be" - to coin the army's phrase.

 

OP I am confident you will do fine. You wouldn't be here asking how to help your daughter and how to

handle the situation if you didn't already feel that this was vital! ((((Hugs))))) I know it may

not be easy and will keep you in my thoughts and prayers.

 

Faith

[Retired]

I was raised with the same type of father.   My father was more "rules biblical ideals" then our actual denomination.   My mother never worked outside the home, he controlled all money, she had an allowance and IMO and other he had no respect for her or other women.  I've heard many times after leaving home what folks thought about my father.  He is the picture of chauvinistic. 

 

I'm a Christian and do see Christian teaching of husband being the spiritual head of the home.  I don't take this that he has the only word or final word on every subject.  My mother always even when she didn't agree with my father back him up even when it really ended up hurting us kids in the long run.   I could tell you my life story and all my issues started with a father that didn't give women full respect.

 

I was the rebel and never obeyed his stuff.  I left home without a dime or help.  I put myself through nursing school.   My sister stayed their course married at 19 and now at 41 divorce without a way to support herself.  Its pretty pitiful she makes minimum wage and shares an apartment with several 20 somethings.  

 

When my dad had a stroke a decade ago.  My mom was not able to handle a dang thing.   She said repeatedly  "your father promised to always take care of me"  Well let me tell you a pastor with no home and living in a patronage.  They had nothing.  The daughter that went against his views has supported them financially for over a decade.  I also prior to his stroke have been giving them money.

 

You are married to your dh so surely you had some idea of his attitude regarding education women.   Does your religion  support his opinion? 

 

Does he think that  your daughter is not intelligent  enough to be a independent women?  (I say this because my dad used that excused to keep my mom in a child-suppmissive state)  I have over the past 10 year helped her to come into her own.  She has such convidence and independents that he never allowed her.  She doesn't have the IQ for college but she could of done other jobs he told her she was stupid.

 

He may feel that college would lead to a promiscuous life.  He may be more about protecting her virtue.  Its an outdate idea but his heart may be in the right place

 

My first thing I would tell you cause I still have a rebellious spirit.  I can't stand a hint of  dictatorial    dads that you should just keep teaching her college prep and then when she is 18 help her get the heck out of there.  (sorry but this 44 year old still feels the rebellion against controlling men)

 

 

But the mature Christian advise -Pray that the holy spirit softens your dh's heart and gives you the right words to challenge your dh's thoughts regarding your daughter education.  He could be stirring up a heart of rebellion in your daughter.  She really wants to be a nurse.  THe daughter also  wants her dads love and approval.  He could do a lot of damage.  I use to just wish my Mom would take my side instead of doing whatever my dad told her.   I feel for you and your family.  I really hope that all of it comes to a peaceful positive outcome.

 

( sorry so long but this subject just is a trigger to some really unhappy times)

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Scarlett]

Hmm... very interesting, maybe each country has slightly different understandings?

 

I don't think so. Certainly not now with the www. I don't know. I have known people who leave and their memory of the entire organization is different from my experience so I just don't know how to explain that.

[PeterPan]

My daughter is almost 16, she talks about going to college, lately has talked about becoming a nurse.  Dh is totally against her doing much of anything, he thinks she should focus on getting a husband and raising a family.  I kid you not, this is true.  We just got into an argument about it this morning, great way to start the New Year.  She has no interest in boys and is determined like I was, I can see her going on her own and doing what she wants, that's exactly what I did.  I do believe we need to pray for our children, but I will not encourage her that all she needs is a husband.  I am married to a faithful man, but his parents have helped us out way too much over the years and I will not allow my daughter to go through the same things that my path has led me on.  I know it was God's will, but I don't see anything wrong with having something to fall back on.  If there are any Christian books on this topic, I would be interested in reading them. 

Help!

I just read through this entire thread, and it made me chuckle with the extremity of the viewpoints.  We really need to divorce our spouses and kick them out if we disagree over something?!?!  Mercy. Do you handle all your disagreements so radically???  ;)  We solve this calmly and quietly, like we do everything else: we ask the dh if there's anything they'd like done next, do it, and quietly go do our thing as well. 

 

It's really that simple.  You don't argue over it, mercy.  If she's meant to go to college, she'll go to college, his opinion notwithstanding.  It's pretty obvious you'll support her in that.  So your goal as the wife is to lead him gently into this in *baby steps* without getting him all fussed up. 

 

So what is HIS next step that he suggests?  He's being pretty ethereal and telling you his theory, but then is he saying you should go to a dominantly home ec curriculum and ditch all college prep right now?  Is he saying he wants more home ec added?  What is he really saying?  Nothing has to be decided over fafsa forms and applications and all that.  She's a sophomore this year?  So find out what it is that is bugging him that he'd like to see done, DO it, and quietly keep doing the things that keep her doors open.  Don't shut any doors, but also do the things your dh suggests as fitting with his values.  Do what is necessary for BOTH paths.

 

There are more viewpoints on this board than what you're seeing in this thread, and not all of us think that men with these really traditional values are nutty.  Sometimes it's that really traditional men married women who had a more non-traditional experience.  These women bring more to the table, so it takes MORE EFFORT to merge these values and create some harmony.  I myself married into a very traditional family, and I don't think my dh is a nut or aberrant for having his values.  I think it's wonderful.  I work really hard to make sure my raising of my dd honors my dh's values AND what I have to give.  I can't promise whose values she'll have, because she's her own person before God, making her own decisions.

 

Sometimes when you start to see those different values presented, you get all scared.  If you're a religious person and this is tied to your family's faiths, then praying about this would wise.  Pray for her to receive good money in scholarships.  As Crimson pointed out, college debt for a woman who eventually hopes to end up at home is a serious detractor.  His tune might change and be pretty rational or accepting if she has no guy on the horizon and a partial or full ride offer for somewhere.  She needs to be encouraged to work hard to earn merit scholarships. If you have boys, I think it is also valid to ask your dh what money he intends to contribute toward their college education and then stipulate that the same amount should be given to her.  If she doesn't go to college, it can be used to pay for a house.  I think there should be no gender gap in these things.   Besides, if she gets the full ride and he already agreed to the equal trust fund, she'd have her college and $$ for a house out of it because of your bargaining.  :D

 

So anyways, do what he says and quietly work on your part to keep her doors open.  Encourage her to work hard and let it all work out.

[*lifeoftheparty*]

.

[Melissa in Australia]

I am with Tibbie on this. It is a no brainer. Not only would dh never in a millions years have thought dd

should not pursue her dream of a chemistry degree/ pre-med degree, but he would just have to know I would

have steamrolled over him if he ever voiced any such thing!

 

1. For your dd 's sake, you stand your ground. If you do not, your relationship might never

recover. My great grandmother and grand father did this to my grandmother. She eventually caved to

marriage because they were going to toss her out of the house and forever shun her for going to business

school. The marriage was a disaster for about 15 years and though they did become a loving, devoted

couple later in life, the kids...my dad and his older sister in particular, were badly damaged from

the fall out of a momma who had not wanted to get married at 18 and be tied to home.

 

2. My grandmother took her resentment of her parents to the grave with her. There was NEVER any

reconciliation. OP, don't let that be you.

 

3. Parenting comes before marriage. Many do not agree with this, but here is where the rubber meets the

road.Unless one is forced into a marriagew ie. has no option due to religious or cultural issues, the

spouse is a choice that the consenting adult made. The child did not ask to be brought into this world

and has no choice and no option to change family. The parents he/she got is the luck of biology but that

set of parents controls every aspect of the child's life up to adulthood and the poor choices of the

parents profoundly affect the child's immediate future as an adult. Do the best you can by her period. Do

not let him stand in the way of this.

 

3. Follow Tibbie 's advice.

 

4. Word of warning. Standing in her way could make her like many of the youth that have couch surfed in

my home. DH and I have been blessed to assist late teen/young adults pick themselves up, choice a path,

and chart a course. To be honest, there are some days when I'm doing ACT prep with an 18 year old

"run away" or helping them fill out college or trade school apps or holding one in my arms while she sobs

uncontrollably over the broken relationship with her unyielding, unsupportive, chauvinistic parents that

I think I'd like to scream at these parents. Just.scream! Please don't be one of the parents that make

me want to lose my mind.

 

This isn't a hill. This is THE battlefield. It is a defining moment. Be there for your child and make her

top priority. Don't swerve. You can do it in a quiet, calm, methodical manner. You just simply choose not

to violate your own conscience in the matter.

 

That's the single biggest issue. We should not violate our own inner moral code for someone else. We do

have a tendancy in this wolrd to live to regret such violations. You will not regret helping your

daughter "Be all that she can be" - to coin the army's phrase.

 

OP I am confident you will do fine. You wouldn't be here asking how to help your daughter and how to

handle the situation if you didn't already feel that this was vital! ((((Hugs))))) I know it may

not be easy and will keep you in my thoughts and prayers.

 

Faith

 

well said

[Soror]

 

There are more viewpoints on this board than what you're seeing in this thread, and not all of us think that men with these really traditional values are nutty.  Sometimes it's that really traditional men married women who had a more non-traditional experience.  These women bring more to the table, so it takes MORE EFFORT to merge these values and create some harmony.  I myself married into a very traditional family, and I don't think my dh is a nut or aberrant for having his values.  I think it's wonderful.  I work really hard to make sure my raising of my dd honors my dh's values AND what I have to give.  I can't promise whose values she'll have, because she's her own person before God, making her own decisions.

 

 

Dh and I are very traditional as well in our roles and I have no issue w/ my dd's if they decide to stay home but that is their decision, not mine or my dh's.  I certainly wouldn't force them to limit their education or opportunities. We think it is a wonderful thing to have a sahm but yes, I the idea that a women should be forced into that role, against her wishes is nuts.

[marbel]

Dh and I are very traditional as well in our roles and I have no issue w/ my dd's if they decide to stay home but that is their decision, not mine or my dh's.  I certainly wouldn't force them to limit their education or opportunities. We think it is a wonderful thing to have a sahm but yes, I the idea that a women should be forced into that role, against her wishes is nuts.

 

How can a woman living in the USA in 2014 be forced into that or any role?   When she turns 18 she can do as she likes.  Of course it would be harder without parental support (or just one parent's support) but people do lots of things without parental support.  

 

I guess families living in cult compounds have a great deal more control over adult children, but it doesn't sound like this is the case.  With Mom on her side, this girl can do it. 

[Lanny]

I don't know about Christian books on this topic, but, IMHO, your DH is WAY out of line about this. That attitude was probably still common, 100 years ago, but not now. As the father of a DD, I wonder if your DH is from India, or some other country, where girls and women are considered to have a status way below that of boys and men.

 

 

[Soror]

Marbel, yes of course she can do anything she wants on her own and I have no doubt she can but I wouldn't support my dh in him kicking out my daughter b/c they wanted an education. Those who are put in such position don't do nearly as well as those that have the full support of their parents. So, while technically they still have all the opportunity in the world the chance of them being as successful falls dramatically and I couldn't support such imo hurtful and limiting behavior. 

 

 

[Mama Geek]

I don't know about Christian books on this topic, but, IMHO, your DH is WAY out of line about this. That attitude was probably still common, 100 years ago, but not now. As the father of a DD, I wonder if your DH is from India, or some other country, where girls and women are considered to have a status way below that of boys and men.

I have heard of this in some locations in the US and it has nothing to do with being from another country.

[brehon]

LOL. Um, no. I'd like DD to earn enough so she and her partner can decide which one would be best at home, based on factors of their choosing.

Hey, THD! My dh - a SAHD who is the kids' primary HS teacher and a father of 3 daughters & 3 sons - heartily agrees with you.

[marbel]

Marbel, yes of course she can do anything she wants on her own and I have no doubt she can but I wouldn't support my dh in him kicking out my daughter b/c they wanted an education. Those who are put in such position don't do nearly as well as those that have the full support of their parents. So, while technically they still have all the opportunity in the world the chance of them being as successful falls dramatically and I couldn't support such imo hurtful and limiting behavior. 

 

Oh I agree with you.  But there is a difference between supporting the hurtful and limiting behavior and not being able to do anything about it.  

 

[Scarlett]

Marbel, yes of course she can do anything she wants on her own and I have no doubt she can but I wouldn't support my dh in him kicking out my daughter b/c they wanted an education. Those who are put in such position don't do nearly as well as those that have the full support of their parents. So, while technically they still have all the opportunity in the world the chance of them being as successful falls dramatically and I couldn't support such imo hurtful and limiting behavior.

And beyond limiting her education his actions and attitude will severely damage his relationship with his dd and his wife.

 

I don't think the has been back to this thread, but I would be interested in hearing his, the dh's, reasoning on this matter. We would be better equipped to offer our thoughts.

[elfgivas]

sometimes, movie wisdom helps..... do you do a "movie night"?

maybe its time for "my big fat greek wedding"....

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIm1dYTv-mQ

[marbel]

And beyond limiting her education his actions and attitude will severely damage his relationship with his dd and his wife.

 

I don't think the has been back to this thread, but I would be interested in hearing his, the dh's, reasoning on this matter. We would be better equipped to offer our thoughts.

 

Yes, that is also a possible consequence.  So sad, if it works out that way.   But another thing only he has control over, really.

 

[Jennifer3141]

I don't think so. Certainly not now with the www. I don't know. I have known people who leave and their memory of the entire organization is different from my experience so I just don't know how to explain that.

 

We have a JW family in our HS co-op and after 6th grade, the daughters are not allowed to take any advanced mathematical or scientific classes.

[cave canem]

Have you asked your husband whether he hopes that your daughter will homeschool the grandchildren? 

Is it possible that homeschooling will become more regulated, with the requirement, as has been proposed, that home educators be college graduates?

Is it possible that she will have a son who aspires to be an engineer or doctor?  How will he get the instruction he needs to pursue that?

Homeschooling aside, does he not think it possible that post-secondary education would enable her to bless her husband and family with greater competence and knowledge? 

 

[busymama7]

We have a JW family in our HS co-op and after 6th grade, the daughters are not allowed to take any advanced mathematical or scientific classes.

?!? Have you ever asked them(non confrontationally) how they expect their daughters to homeschool their grandsons?

[Scarlett]

We have a JW family in our HS co-op and after 6th grade, the daughters are not allowed to take any advanced mathematical or scientific classes.

I have idea what to say to that. I have never met anyone ever who would refuse to let their kids take advanced classes much less anyone in my own religion. They actually say, "we do not allow our daughters to take advanced classes after 6 th grade"?

[creekland]

We have a JW family in our HS co-op and after 6th grade, the daughters are not allowed to take any advanced mathematical or scientific classes.

 

That's sad.

 

There are definitely some families/societies where I'd have been stoned at a young age if I'd happened to have been born into them.

 

I'm continually thankful for my placement in the birth lottery and wishful that all could have similar opportunities (whether they opt to take them or not).

 

[Scarlett]

That's sad.

 

There are definitely some families/societies where I'd have been stoned at a young age if I'd happened to have been born into them.

 

I'm continually thankful for my placement in the birth lottery and wishful that all could have similar opportunities (whether they opt to take them or not).

 

It is also sad that a family with such extreme views has to blame it in their religion.

 

We are all responsible for raising our own children.

[creekland]

It is also sad that a family with such extreme views has to blame it in their religion.

 

We are all responsible for raising our own children.

 

It's not just JW or some branches of Christianity.  I've seen it firsthand with another major religion too.  We rented one of our houses to a family - actually - just the dad came to look at it...  He looked at the three bedrooms - picked his - picked the next nicest one for their son as it would fit his computer, TV, and other stuff, then looked at the smallest one and said it would be just fine for their daughter since "she doesn't need much."  There wasn't much age difference between son and daughter.  Upon learning that hubby was the father of three sons he heartily congratulated him and told him he "must be a good man!"

 

If I ever felt like discriminating for one of our rentals, that was it... but we stuck by the law and they moved in.  Their kids went to a private, religious school.  I still feel for that daughter.

 

[Scarlett]

It's not just JW or some branches of Christianity. I've seen it firsthand with another major religion too. We rented one of our houses to a family - actually - just the dad came to look at it... He looked at the three bedrooms - picked his - picked the next nicest one for their son as it would fit his computer, TV, and other stuff, then looked at the smallest one and said it would be just fine for their daughter since "she doesn't need much." There wasn't much age difference between son and daughter. Upon learning that hubby was the father of three sons he heartily congratulated him and told him he "must be a good man!"

 

If I ever felt like discriminating for one of our rentals, that was it... but we stuck by the law and they moved in. Their kids went to a private, religious school. I still feel for that daughter.

 

Ugh.

[J-rap]

I don't think reasoning with your husband would work, because you certainly have tried that.  It sounds like he is using religion to carry out an unreasonable view that he has.  I know you are trying to keep the peace in your family.  I think, instead of trying to reason with him and convince him, I would just quietly but firmly keep working with your daughter toward her goal.  Let her know you are there for her and will help her make it happen.  And then do it.

[FaithManor]

I have idea what to say to that. I have never met anyone ever who would refuse to let their kids take advanced classes much less anyone in my own religion. They actually say, "we do not allow our daughters to take advanced classes after 6 th grade"?

In our area, Amish and non progressive Mennonite communities actively preach this

and ATI, Vision Forum, and certain fundamentalist congregations only allow

high school English and history for females from approved curriculums which do

not allow literature studies such as Shakespeare or Greek myths.

 

Fathers are told that they are outside the will of God if they allow their

daughters to pursue more education, trade school licensing, etc. and that if

their daughters submit to God and to their fathers, they will never need

an education or a job because God will not allow anything bad to happen to them.

Therefore, when something awful does happen - abuse, abandonment death of spouse -

it is blamed on female unfaithfulness to God. Thus the system is self perpetuating

due to the self recrimination that kids feel for defying their religion.

 

Faith

[Crimson Wife]

if

their daughters submit to God and to their fathers, they will never need

an education or a job because God will not allow anything bad to happen to them.

Therefore, when something awful does happen - abuse, abandonment death of spouse -

it is blamed on female unfaithfulness to God.

Are they reading the same Bible that I do? (not talking about a different translation but one with different content) Perhaps one missing the story of Job?

 

Bad things can absolutely happen to good people because we live in a broken world.

[bettyandbob]

I don't think reasoning with your husband would work, because you certainly have tried that.  It sounds like he is using religion to carry out an unreasonable view that he has.  I know you are trying to keep the peace in your family.  I think, instead of trying to reason with him and convince him, I would just quietly but firmly keep working with your daughter toward her goal.  Let her know you are there for her and will help her make it happen.  And then do it.

 

 

absolutely. Explore all finance sources, if extended family or friends live near a good program and are willing to help with housing, hospital based programs. 

 

I know some might suggest looking programs where one could commute from home. If you dh is hostile to dd furthering her education, I would specifically look for options that include her moving out. 

 

If it's clear he will not change, I would help her find the program and finances and help her with plans for moving without discussing further with dh. Then, when dd finishing high school, I'd help her move. dh could be mad at me, but I won't let him unreasonably control dd's future. 

 

This whole discussion is ridiculous to me. The girl in questions wants to be a nurse not a model (which I know some people would have a lot of trouble with), not an engineer (which I think would be great anyway). Nursing is a respectable traditionally female career--I really don't get how anyone could make an objection. 

 

If this girl follows dad's plan she could easily marry someone as controlling as her father and honestly there's a fine line between controlling and abuse. 

[kiana]

If it's clear he will not change, I would help her find the program and finances and help her with plans for moving without discussing further with dh. Then, when dd finishing high school, I'd help her move. dh could be mad at me, but I won't let him unreasonably control dd's future. 

 

Yep.

 

[Joanne]

Article on love and power in intimate relationships. I realize the OP's DH is unlikely to value this content, but it is still appropriate to themes in the thread.

 

http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/201312/love-and-power

[PeterPan]

It's also odd to me that they're *just now* discussing this.  These things (roles of women in the home, in the workforce, etc.) are things that should have been discussed even before marriage to see if they were compatible.  She had years to teach him and soften him.  A woman has to teach her dh many things and has that power if she starts early and does it gently and quietly.  ;)

 

 

[creekland]

 Nursing is a respectable traditionally female career--I really don't get how anyone could make an objection. 

 

 

Youngest son was talking with a couple of friends, one of whom works at a nearby sit-down family restaurant.  At that restaurant there is a man who reserves one of their rooms each month to spew a sermon to which anyone can come (free invitation).  He often has a fair number there.  Part of what he spews is this sort of stuff.  He won't ever leave a tip to the waitresses in spite of ordering food, drinks, etc, because (as he preaches), these young ladies shouldn't be working and leaving tips only encourages them to do so - promoting "wrong."

 

Being the fiercely independent, not-so "rule loving," unconventional, young lass that I was (I'm not convinced I ever outgrew it either), he's lucky I'm not waiting on him.  He might find his food didn't taste quite as good as he remembered from a previous time... or other such things that would come easily to my mind.  Sure, I might be out of a job, and if my thinking wasn't good enough, could even have some sort of record... but part of me says it would be worth it.

 

As I said before, if I'd been born into a different family/culture, I could have easily been stoned by now.

 

[creekland]

ps  I had one young lad in school who was brought up in a similar culture and who assumed that he didn't have to listen to us female teachers at all.  He and I didn't get along so well either (VERY, VERY rare that I don't get along with someone at school - no matter what their academic level).  His dad then had issues with the school too.  They ended up moving.  I feel sorry for whatever location got them.

[goldberry]

Fathers are told that they are outside the will of God if they allow their

daughters to pursue more education, trade school licensing, etc. and that if

their daughters submit to God and to their fathers, they will never need

an education or a job because God will not allow anything bad to happen to them.

Therefore, when something awful does happen - abuse, abandonment death of spouse -

it is blamed on female unfaithfulness to God. Thus the system is self perpetuating

due to the self recrimination that kids feel for defying their religion.

 

Faith

 

This is so sad and such a poor reflection on God.  I would not be surprised to come out of that environment an athiest.

[QueenCat]

Youngest son was talking with a couple of friends, one of whom works at a nearby sit-down family restaurant.  At that restaurant there is a man who reserves one of their rooms each month to spew a sermon to which anyone can come (free invitation).  He often has a fair number there.  Part of what he spews is this sort of stuff.  He won't ever leave a tip to the waitresses in spite of ordering food, drinks, etc, because (as he preaches), these young ladies shouldn't be working and leaving tips only encourages them to do so - promoting "wrong."

 

 

 

The restaurant might want to implement a policy of the tip being added to the bill for groups of more than 5. They don't have to be on a single ticket. They can be separate tickets. That's just wrong, and it's wrong for the restaurant to not make sure their staff has a chance to earn an income.

[creekland]

The restaurant might want to implement a policy of the tip being added to the bill for groups of more than 5. They don't have to be on a single ticket. They can be separate tickets. That's just wrong, and it's wrong for the restaurant to not make sure their staff has a chance to earn an income.

 

I'm going to have to talk with youngest again and get the name of the friend to see what she says about it all.  I'm in firm agreement with you. He only told us about this recently when we were talking about this sort of thing as a family (discrimination and how I HOPE my boys never, ever, do it).  I do know the restaurant and wouldn't be afraid of making suggestions to them.  Strong suggestions (though we never eat there, so I've no idea that my suggestions would go far).

 

[creekland]

Good timing... youngest just came home.  Now I know names of the waitresses.  ;)  He's going to check for me to double check that it's still happening.  If so...

[QueenCat]

Good timing... youngest just came home.  Now I know names of the waitresses.  ;)  He's going to check for me to double check that it's still happening.  If so...

 

Letter writing campaign.............. count me in!

[Blessed Mommy]

My dad always expected me to go to college and get a degree.  I was a "good student" and graduated with honors and a 4.2 GPA.  I attended college for two and a half years, majoring in elementary education.  However, the longer I went to college, the more I realized I didn't want to be there.  I really wanted to be a wife and a mother.

 

At this time, I was already engaged to my high school sweetheart.  I told him how I was feeling.  I dropped out of college the next day, we got married a few months later, and we now have four children whom I stay home with and homeschool!  When I first told my parents about dropping out of school, they were both shocked, to say the least.  My dad was livid, my mom was disappointed.  In the end, my father completely disagreed with me and my wanting to "just" be a wife and mother.  My mom, however, chose to support my decision even though she disagreed.

 

To this day, my dad and I have a strained relationship, while my mom and I are best friends.  I really think it all has to do with how they each responded to my choices for my life.  I have NEVER regretted not finishing college, nor have I regretted getting married and choosing to stay home with my children.  I LOVE my life, and consider myself to be extremely blessed!  I just wish my father could see things this way...

 

I'm saying all of this to suggest that you support your daughter in her decision to become a nurse.  I would also encourage my husband to show his support even if he doesn't fully agree.  Your responses to her life choices now could end up affecting your future relationship with her.

 

[Crimson Wife]

The parents struggling financially (if the linked post is accurate) might be making the dad more leery of the daughter taking on debt for college. His wife resuming paid employment as an empty nester is a very different situation than having a daughter of childbearing age needing to be employed to pay off her student loans.

[creekland]

My dad always expected me to go to college and get a degree.  I was a "good student" and graduated with honors and a 4.2 GPA.  I attended college for two and a half years, majoring in elementary education.  However, the longer I went to college, the more I realized I didn't want to be there.  I really wanted to be a wife and a mother.

 

At this time, I was already engaged to my high school sweetheart.  I told him how I was feeling.  I dropped out of college the next day, we got married a few months later, and we now have four children whom I stay home with and homeschool!  When I first told my parents about dropping out of school, they were both shocked, to say the least.  My dad was livid, my mom was disappointed.  In the end, my father completely disagreed with me and my wanting to "just" be a wife and mother.  My mom, however, chose to support my decision even though she disagreed.

 

To this day, my dad and I have a strained relationship, while my mom and I are best friends.  I really think it all has to do with how they each responded to my choices for my life.  I have NEVER regretted not finishing college, nor have I regretted getting married and choosing to stay home with my children.  I LOVE my life, and consider myself to be extremely blessed!  I just wish my father could see things this way...

 

I'm saying all of this to suggest that you support your daughter in her decision to become a nurse.  I would also encourage my husband to show his support even if he doesn't fully agree.  Your responses to her life choices now could end up affecting your future relationship with her.

 

To me, it's the choice that makes all the difference - regardless of gender.

 

[QueenCat]

The parents struggling financially (if the linked post is accurate) might be making the dad more leery of the daughter taking on debt for college. His wife resuming paid employment as an empty nester is a very different situation than having a daughter of childbearing age needing to be employed to pay off her student loans.

 

To me, one should be just as leery for a son. Encouraging minimal student loan debt is good advice for both genders.

[bettyandbob]

The parents struggling financially (if the linked post is accurate) might be making the dad more leery of the daughter taking on debt for college. His wife resuming paid employment as an empty nester is a very different situation than having a daughter of childbearing age needing to be employed to pay off her student loans.

 

 

To me, this would be all the more to say "I can't help financially, but let's do whatever we can to get you a marketable skill" and you know what nursing is--a marketable skill. 

[Crimson Wife]

To me, one should be just as leery for a son. Encouraging minimal student loan debt is good advice for both genders.

Men don't have the same urgency in their biological clocks and fewer of them want to take a break from paid employment to raise children. So yeah, I'd definitely be more concerned for my daughters than for my son. Not that having a lot of student loan debt is a great idea for guys either, but in general, it's a bigger issue for women.

[bettyandbob]

Men don't have the same urgency in their biological clocks and fewer of them want to take a break from paid employment to raise children. So yeah, I'd definitely be more concerned for my daughters than for my son. Not that having a lot of student loan debt is a great idea for guys either, but in general, it's a bigger issue for women.

 

 

I am not encouraging debt. There are lots of ways to get through a nursing program without debt. The OP has a couple years to research with her dd.

 

Why would you discourage researching how to do it without debt. If the family really is in financial need, there are probably significant sources of scholarships this girl can uncover. 

 

Additionally, nursing is one field I know lots of people continue to work part time and contribute to family income without incurring childcare. It is a license that can be a significant help to a young family without forcing people to make childcare compromises they don't want to make. 

[Carol in Cal.]

It was my engineering degree and savings from that job that enabled me to stay home with our daughter.  it's silly to raise an adult who cannot take care of herself.