*HOME*schooling high school

[ncmom2dawters]

Does anyone *home* school high school anymore?  For years, parents fought for validation of the high school education they provided their children.  The reputation of homeschoolers was built upon it even prompting colleges to recruit students who were schooled at home through the high school years.  In recent years though homeschooling has become a business...at least in our area.  Gone are most of the coops where parents worked together to share skills and talents.  The new trend for homeschooling high school includes drop off classes, dual enrollment, etc... which tend to eliminate parental involvement and come at noticeable expense.   As the business of outsourced home school classes grows, I see marketing that plays into a parent's lack of confidence to successfully school their students through the high school years via a more traditional path ... at home....rather than to encourage and support.  Yes, there is not doubt outside classes, especially for electives, can enrich a student's education.  Yes, some students thrive under the teaching of others.  Yes, there are situations where parents need these outside resources.  In our area, so many are enrolled in outside classes for a many of their high school core and elective subjects because it is the norm.  It is challenging socially and academically to find other families who still see value in an at home, parent directed high school education.  This  trend seems to suggest if a student is not enrolled in these outside classes, the education is less valid which seems counterproductive to the efforts of the homeschool pioneers who have proven students can be very successful at home.  I'm wondering if this is a national trend.  Are families in your area still *home*schooling through the high school years?

 

[creekland]

More homeschool in our area than use DE or other options.  DE here is very expensive... so it tends to be used by those of us who really want the outside validation of grades for our kids heading to college.

 

Oldest took one DE class (English).  It cost us $660.

 

Middle did three (English, Microbio, and Public Speaking) costing us over 2K, plus two "studied 100% at home" AP tests.

 

There were no other homeschoolers in oldest's class and only one in one of middle son's class.

 

Online classes can be popular - as are some co-ops.

 

IF DE were more accessible and less expensive I suspect it would be used more, but here, at our cc, it's not.

[M&M]

We still have many traditional hs high schoolers here. Most of the coops I know including ours are also parent run and taught.

 

There are some hs that have dual enrolled for a few classes, but most of my circle are doing it the old fashioned way.

[Miss Marple]

Most in my area do a combination of classes at home and/or coop or DE. Our local coop is parent led and taught. Others nearby are drop off. After years of teaching in our local coop and having my boys attend classes through it, I concluded that it would be better to have a few quality teachers and allow others to pay and drop off. While billed as college prep most of the mothers were woefully unprepared and unable to teach to that goal.

 

Interestingly all the families I know that pride themselves on schooling strictly at home do in fact outsource through online courses, BJU Homesat, DVDs, etc. I know of no one who truly teaches all high school level subjects through to graduation. Some who start the high school years desiring to do it all use lower level materials for,their high schooler.

 

Whether one chooses to DE, coop, or bring in other instructors into the home via satellite, online or DVD, the educatin is still "parent directed". I'm sure there are a few parents out there who can and have done a quality college prep education at home with no outside influences. I just don't know any of them.

[snowbeltmom]

Whether one chooses to DE, coop, or bring in other instructors into the home via satellite, online or DVD, the educatin is still "parent directed". I'm sure there are a few parents out there who can and have done a quality college prep education at home with no outside influences. I just don't know any of them.

 

:iagree:

 

Once my kids hit high school, many of their subjects are outsourced.  However, I still consider what we do to be homeschooling and "parent directed."  I think the internet has made it much easier to homeschool high school. 

 

[mamajudy]

These are exactly my thoughts, ncmom. So many "homeschoolers" are setting a precedent by using outside sources that those of us who are teaching our own are having trouble now proving that our high school students' education is valid. A couple of years ago, one of my kids applied to a summer program, and we got a call from the review board asking about his schooling. The person my DH spoke to said that he never saw an applicant who was entirely home schooled. Everyone assumes that if a student is home schooling high school, at least some of it is online or dual enrolling. My second child dual enrolled and quite frankly, it was a mistake. After much consideration, we determined that our other kids would receive a better education if we did it ourselves. The local community college doesn't compare to the educational plan in TWTM.

 

We started homeschooling 23 years ago, shortly after it became legal in our state. Many families had gone before us and fought for the right to teach their own children. Colleges and universities began accepting home schooled students without any outside validation other than SAT scores. But now, with so many homeschoolers outsourcing their classes, homeschooling is once again being questioned. Many on this forum disagree with me, but there is a world of difference between homeschooling and schooling at home online or dual enrolling, which is just sending your kid to school. I believe that, because of the prevalence of outsourcing, homeschooling will once again be considered invalid. I am thankful for the window of opportunity that we had to educate our kids at home, in our own way, according to our own plan. My last one graduates this year. We ourselves challenged one university a number of years ago to change their admissions policy requiring home schooled students to obtain a GED. But I don't see the upcoming generation of homeschoolers doing that -- they are just going with the flow and outsourcing. My DH and I are through. We will not fight anymore for something that others, apparently, do not value.

[M&M]

Mamajudy, you are right about the trend. I have to say that most of my circle are at the end of their hsing journey. They are moms of large families hsing their youngest children.

 

I wonder what it will be like when my youngest are high schoolers. Things are changing, as hsing becomes more and more mainstream it seems to have the potential become less recognizable.

[Jane in NC]

When I began homeschooling, there was an active co-op for homeschooled high schoolers in my area. At the time, my son was too young to participate.  When he did start high school (at home), two things happened. The first was that the co-op was no longer around due to lack of students of his age group.  It seemed that home schooling families in my area either had older or younger students--few his age and none who shared our academic approach (classical ala WTM). 

 

The opening of the early college high school also seemed to alter the dynamics.  A number of parents who were adamantly against the public schools here saw the economic advantage of the EC experience:  earning an Associate's degree while in high school on the state's dime. 

 

That said, we found that college admissions people appreciated having something other than mommy grades.  To be honest, grades from our local CC are meaningless outside of the state's public unis, but they did serve as some sort of validation. Perhaps the better validation for those leaving their geographic region are test scores like SAT subjects and AP.  A number of homeschoolers on these boards self study for APs--as did my son.

[Teachin'Mine]

I suppose it comes down to the reason why a family began homeschooling to begin with.  If you did it solely to keep your children home and out of any school building and with you as parents as the sole teacher, then outsourcing wouldn't be considered "home" schooling.  We did it to provide the best education.  For us, at times that was teaching everything ourselves and then later became taking advantage of better options for our daughter.   DE has been without a doubt the right choice for us.   We still do some homeschooling, and even if we didn't, I'd still consider what we do homeschooling.  For us homeschooling was never about keeping dd inside the physical walls of a home, but being in charge of her education.   I don't see a homeschooled high school education where the parents are the sole teachers and no distance or online learning is used as any less valid.   As it's legal in all 50, I don't think colleges do either.   I also think it's understandable that if there are no outside verification of grades, that more weight will be placed on standardized testing.   I also think that for many students, having college experience through DE is great for so many reasons and makes the transition from home to university that much smoother.   IMO homeschooling rights was about having options.   We all have those options and should be making our choices based on what's best for each of our children.

[JennW in SoCal]

We will not fight anymore for something that others, apparently, do not value.

 

What I do and do not value as a homeschool parent became a moot point when my kids were teens. I always homeschooled to give my kids the education that best suited them, and at some point either my kids needed to answer to someone outside the home or I could no longer challenge them or provide the kind of courses they needed.  I homeschooled the courses that were my strong suit all the way through, but they had a mix of outside courses that fit them and our situation, and I am hugely thankful we had those options.  My kids are hugely thankful they had the option to take classes and not have to face a slew of standardized tests for college admission.

 

I don't think homeschooling is "once again" being questioned.  It has never stopped being questioned.  Homeschooling courses were never accepted by either of the California public university systems where homeschoolers had no choice but to go through the community college system first and transfer. Since teens can start at the CC as teens it was natural for most to go ahead and start them at the age of 15 or 16.  That model is STILL very common among homeschoolers here, and no one tut-tuts and complains about them not HOME-schooling all the way through.

[Jane in NC]

 

We started homeschooling 23 years ago, shortly after it became legal in our state. Many families had gone before us and fought for the right to teach their own children. Colleges and universities began accepting home schooled students without any outside validation other than SAT scores. But now, with so many homeschoolers outsourcing their classes, homeschooling is once again being questioned. Many on this forum disagree with me, but there is a world of difference between homeschooling and schooling at home online or dual enrolling, which is just sending your kid to school. I believe that, because of the prevalence of outsourcing, homeschooling will once again be considered invalid. I am thankful for the window of opportunity that we had to educate our kids at home, in our own way, according to our own plan. My last one graduates this year. We ourselves challenged one university a number of years ago to change their admissions policy requiring home schooled students to obtain a GED. But I don't see the upcoming generation of homeschoolers doing that -- they are just going with the flow and outsourcing. My DH and I are through. We will not fight anymore for something that others, apparently, do not value.

 

I wonder if some of the decisions homeschoolers make depend upon geography.  Upthread, Creekland mentioned how expensive dual enrollment is in her area.  Homeschooled high schoolers older than my son were lining up for dual enrollment courses at our CC when they were free to high schoolers.  I don't know what NC does now but when they began charging for humanities/social science courses, a number of homeschooled kids were no longer on campus. 

 

Another poster mentioned how the Internet has changed the game.  To be honest, I felt that I could not direct my son through AP Latin--nor could he do it on his own. A virtual course was the perfect solution.  I also felt that the CC's chemistry classes were better than what I could offer him at home given my personal limitations.  Math?  That one wasn't going anywhere because I knew I could do a better job. 

 

The point is that we did what was necessary and possible for our situation so that my son had the strongest education. You may view this as some sort of compromise but I fail to see how utilizing community resources (for example better chem labs and a PhD prof) is a disadvantage.

 

[Lolly]

Here, most use co-op  and DE classes for high school. Well, actually  most put their kids back in ps when they reach high school. I have yet to use any outside classes through high school. No college questioned any classes or grades. It probably didn't hurt that they really wanted my girls for their swim team... 

[Miss Marple]

A family we were very close to in the 1970's elected to homeschool their 2 sons (my playmates).  They were the first to do so in ABQ (or to be known publicly).  Their neighbor was anti-homeschooling so he reported them monthly to the truancy board.  The family went before judges regularly.  They were always found to be in "educational compliance".  While they *HOME*schooled, they used Calvert because that was really all that was available then and because neither parent had any education beyond high school (if that) and they felt inadequate.  The use of Calvert was also a big part in making them be in "educational compliance".  Because they were in competitive gymnastics, they enrolled the boys in public high school where they were far ahead of their counterparts.  One son went on to be an Olympic gymnast :)  I would consider them a pioneer in home education, but they still outsourced although it was "parent directed".

 

 

[Ellie]

I think dual-enrollment is not a "trend," because it has been done for many years. For us, in California, having dc take community college classes instead of high school made sense; c.c. transfer students are guaranteed to be accepted at UC and CalState schools, ahead of high school grads, and there is no need to do everything twice (all of the lower-division classes are a repeat of high school). Since c.c. doesn't require a high school transcript or diploma, and no SAT/ACT scores, admission was usually easy-peasy. And in fact, c.c. instead of high school was the subject of a workshop at the first CHEA convention in 1984, so that was sort of my goal from the beginning.

 

Co-op /drop-off classes? No. I never saw anything being taught in them that I was not capable of doing myself, and doing it on my own schedule, in my own way (other than Mary Harrington's Latin classes; my older dd was in the original group she started, which lead to her writing "Latin in the Christian Trivium").

[Miss Marple]

 

 

The point is that we did what was necessary and possible for our situation so that my son had the strongest education. You may view this as some sort of compromise but I fail to see how utilizing community resources (for example better chem labs and a PhD prof) is a disadvantage.

 

Exactly!  The expansion of options in no way cheapens the education, IMO (or the family dynamics).  I know many people who feel the "old" ways are always better (dress, occupations, schooling, courtship, etc.) but I'm all for using the available options to my benefit.  And I've not found that my boys have been harmed in any way by using those options.  

[8filltheheart]

I'm not sure how much it is changing for high school grades. We have been homeschooling since 1994 and the only high school students in knew in our early yrs all homeschooled via Seton which gives an accredited diploma. As my kids got older, I knew families that used multiple providers: Seton, Kolbe, MODG, Abeka, BJU, the odd DE class through the local CC, or enrollment in the odd class via a cottage school (all teachers were certified and it was not a coop). As they got even older, I saw a huge shift in the younger yrs with huge influence of coops impacting everything homeschooling around me.

 

Fwiw, I know very, very few homeschoolers that homeschool the way we do which is majority at home with home created courses and a few outsourced classes. We only outsource classes for very specific reasons like AoPS math.....way beyond my abilities. Most of our kids have dual enrolled at local universities taking college level work bc they are beyond high school level classes and beyond our abilities to do those courses at home. Our dd dual enrolled 1semester at the local CC (summer semester) bc we decided to let her graduate a yr early in order to attend a very small private Catholic LAC in Canada and she had to have her missing high school credits to be accepted (English and econ).

 

Fwiw, I don't think students have to have outside classes. I do think outside validation is necessary for certain schools, but AP scores and SAT subject tests are definitely acceptable alternatives to outsourced classes and those classes can be taught at home. There are still plenty of universities that accept pure homeschool transcripts wo anything other than ACT/SAT scores. (Since we have moved, most the homeschoolers we are meeting seem to be back to our earlier experiences......provider users

Ike Seton, Abeka, etc and no dual enrollment. Our ds is the only dual enrolled student I am aware of.)

 

I don't see altering what we are doing. I will continue to teach what I can, hire tutors for things like Russian for things I can't, and enroll elsewhere for coursework that better serves my kids by taking elsewhere (like ds and his college level math and sciences......I don't see any valid homeschooling argument to prevent a student from taking 200/300 level college courses simply to keep them at home. That is counter to why we homeschool. One of the main reasons we homeschool is to provide the best academic education we are capable of providing.). But we will never dual enroll simply for the sake of dual enrollment or take subpar coursework simply to validate our homeschool.

[Berta]

We live pretty rural and for us DE just wasn't an option. The nearest college is almost an hour away. My daughter graduated homeschool last year after being fully HOME schooled for high school. Now that she has her own car getting to the college is possible, but not before.

 

We don't have any co-ops in our area that I am aware of. I do know several homeschool families in my area through the library homeschool reading class, karate class etc. We also take a homeschool class once a month at the museum. Next year when my daughter is in 4th grade she could take extra curricular activities and sports through the public school, but I don't know what they offer.

[mamajudy]

JennW, why do you think that homeschooling has never been accepted in CA? (This is a genuine question -- I'm not being snarky) Have homeschoolers there tried to challenge the system and get it changed? This is how it happened in other states. I remember reading the book by the Colfax family back in the 80's, whose children went to Harvard after being home schooled in CA. As I recall, the state university wouldn't even look at their kids. How many CA homeschoolers have gone to college and have succeeded? I'm guessing many. Why are people not challenging the system?

[rdj2027]

If I were to not avail myself of using outside sources I would restrict my children to learning what I can teach or they themselves can learn from a book.  My youngest son wants to learn Japanese, a language I do not speak and my husband having only a basic understanding.  I believe that our son is much better served with a tutor whose native language is Japanese.  Same with Computer Science, a field I have very little knowledge of but my son wants to study.  He does learn much on his own but I found that my 15 year old does better with some structure set in place by someone who knows what they are doing.  I outsource art for my youngest for social reasons.  Then there are subjects where I simply cannot provide the needed equipment (fire science).

[mamajudy]

Please don't misunderstand me. Outsourcing can be beneficial. But it can take many forms. One thing that does bother me, though, is when a "homeschooling support group" becomes so powerful through marketing its online classes that certain colleges in that state (PA) have actually required homeschoolers to have a diploma through that organization. Hopefully, this is no longer the case. Your freedom to outsource should not take away my freedom to do it myself.

[Jann in TX]

I fully HOME-schooled my oldest from grades 3 through graduation.  DH and I chose homeschooling because it was the BEST educational option for her (we had tried public and private schools).  Dd had some 'learning differences' (she is an aspie) and she was not able to function in a regular classroom.  She went on to CC and has a degree in photography--graduated with HONORS!

 

Middle dd was fully HOME-schooled from grades 1-5 (with part of a semester of 4th grade at local PS).  She attended PS for grades 6-9 (honors student but had serious issues at home).  She came back home in 10th but refused to do any work for me (high anxiety and serious medical issues).  She began CC in 11th and completed 28 credit hours by her high school graduation-- total cost was $320 plus books!  She is now a Sr in College (honors student) majoring in English and Spanish with hopes to one day go into linguistics.

 

Youngest dd attends the local PS.  She is thriving there.  Homeschooling is an option (but would be difficult), but for this DD PS seems to be the best choice (I have to work, we live very rural without visible neighbors and dd is the only child at home)  I've been impressed with the quality of dd's teachers and I'm pleased with the education she is receiving. 

 

For our family Homeschooling means that DH and I can decide the BEST way to provide an education for each of our children. 

 

 

 

[mamajudy]

For us, in California, having dc take community college classes instead of high school made sense; c.c. transfer students are guaranteed to be accepted at UC and CalState schools, ahead of high school grads, and there is no need to do everything twice (all of the lower-division classes are a repeat of high school). Since c.c. doesn't require a high school transcript or diploma, and no SAT/ACT scores, admission was usually easy-peasy.

 

 

So a kid can go into CC with no documentation and then transfer to a state university with no problem, but a totally home schooled kid with a perfect score on the SAT or ACT will not be considered. Does that make sense?

[snowbeltmom]

So a kid can go into CC with no documentation and then transfer to a state university with no problem, but a totally home schooled kid with a perfect score on the SAT or ACT will not be considered. Does that make sense?

What college would not consider this type of student?

[MysteryJen]

I think this, as most things dealing with homeschooling, depends where you live and your community. DE was very expensive for us (like Creekland, $660 for one class). Ds1 took one class, just for the experience and for admissions to see that my grades (and his test scores) could be validated by an outside source. Was the class worth the money? We are not entirely sure.

 

We have done nearly everything at home, but I expect that my kids, when they need additional help, will seek it out. They have found informal tutors, online sources, etc. I consider that one of their strengths. They are not embarrassed to admit they need help and will take what is offered and seek it out if they need it.

 

In my mostly Catholic home school community, most people are planning to enroll their kids in a Catholic high school, or a charter. Ds1 has no homeschooled friends and I personally know very few people who homeschooled to college outside of this board. 

 

My other kids will have other needs, no doubt. But I still won't have the money for lots of classes at the CC, so we will have to make do. The local hs is not an option and the Catholic hs is too expensive. So for us, home has to be the primary place of classes.

[Lolly]

So a kid can go into CC with no documentation and then transfer to a state university with no problem, but a totally home schooled kid with a perfect score on the SAT or ACT will not be considered. Does that make sense?

 

Not exactly. CC's do require documentation. All require some type of testing. Our local CC requires a high school diploma (for full admission and a mama created transcript is just fine as long as you were homeschooling in a legal manner) or association with a local school (for DE) and ACT scores from anyone under 22 yo. BAsically, no homeschoolers allowed wo a legal high school diploma or affiliation with certain schools. In my experience, a totally (legally) homeschooled kid has no problem being admitted to colleges, CC or 4 year, as long as they have the required classes and test scores (just like everyone else). 

[dbmamaz]

sorry, cant read every post but - my daughter was dual enrolled while still a public school student and she loved it, so I assumed I would dual enroll my teen.  I started homeschooling him in 8th grade because he's 2E, bipolar, has processing issues . . . school wasnt meeting his needs and he was miserable.  I realized he was not mature enough to dual enroll, and i've 'home' schooled almost everything - he's currently taking a self-paced online math class and also one coursera course at any time.  He will go to community college and get a 2-year degree after that, which will be enough credentials to get in to an average 4-year school around here.  

 

I am enough of a loner that I'm not always aware of social pressures BUT - i know that generally when we find other homeschooled teens, they are in really tight cliques because they all go to some coop together - whether its an academic one or a radical unschooler social club.  I also met one mom who said she tells people locally that her son will go to community college and they say "Oh, there was one person in the neighborhood who's son did that!"  (she works in the club house of a very upscale, very large subdivision).

 

But i dont care . . . we do what's right for us.  Getting through school with his ego in tact was my goal . . . 

[mamajudy]

 

 

So a kid can go into CC with no documentation and then transfer to a state university with no problem, but a totally home schooled kid with a perfect score on the SAT or ACT will not be considered. Does that make sense?[quote

What college would not consider this type of student?

 

As per JennW (up thread), homeschooling classes are not accepted in CA universities.

[mamajudy]

Not exactly. CC's do require documentation. All require some type of testing. Our local CC requires a high school diploma (for full admission and a mama created transcript is just fine as long as you were homeschooling in a legal manner) or association with a local school (for DE) and ACT scores from anyone under 22 yo. BAsically, no homeschoolers allowed wo a legal high school diploma or affiliation with certain schools. In my experience, a totally (legally) homeschooled kid has no problem being admitted to colleges, CC or 4 year, as long as they have the required classes and test scores (just like everyone else).

I'm sorry. I should have been more clear. I was referring to colleges in CA.

[JennW in SoCal]

It's been long enough and things have changed enough that I can't give specifics on what it takes to enroll in the CCs here in CA. But basically, yes, the community colleges were designed to take in all sorts of non-traditional students, whether their goal is take coursework towards learning a trade or towards transferring to a 4 year college.  The CCs also accept dual enrollment for high school students, though the particular rules about doing that seem to vary on area and budget constraints.

 

As to why the public university system in CA does not recognize homeschoolers -- I don't know the entire history or politics of it. The UC system is powerful enough that it even "dictates" the content of the college-prep courses in public high schools. You can "test" into a UC, but it requires a slew of SAT II type tests (again I do not know the details).  Most homeschoolers I've known over the last 15 years either went out of state or to an LAC or transferred from community college into a UC.

[dbmamaz]

The community colleges here require you take their testing, but do not require act/sat

[Miss Marple]

I've been musing on this topic all morning while putting away the Christmas decorations.  I find it fascinating to look at the history of a movement and ask myself how they did it and why they did it and how it has changed and why it has changed.  

 

In the early years (my first exposure to homeschooling was in the 1970's) homeschooling was rare.  There were many types who did it and for various reasons.  There were few "helps" and often the parents/children were subject to scrutiny by the courts and the public educational system.  Those I'm familiar with used Calvert because that's just about all there was at that time (didn't the Swan family use a boxed curriculum?).  Over the years options developed.  And as those options developed, more people jumped on the home education bandwagon.  Would those people have home educated if those options did not exist?  I would doubt it.  Many people feel inadequate to give their kids a college prep education.  Many don't know where to begin (hence the development of homeschool support groups), many kids have special needs (gifted, LD, sports oriented, etc.).  The advent of curricula and help for special needs has allowed more parents to homeschool.  

 

If the options we have in home education did not exist, I truly believe the homeschool population would be much, much smaller.  I see those options as beneficial to homeschooling, not negative.  And because homeschoolers are using those options, more people are accepting of home education in general.  Home education has left it's "fringe" reputation and is much more mainstream today.  

 

I truly doubt that the fact that exclusive *HOME*schooling is more rare will in any way cause those students to be less acceptable to higher education.  While there are still some universities/colleges that require more documentation of the student's education, there are always ways to make it work.  I have never heard of a student being denied a college education because he was home educated exclusively at home.  

 

 

[Vida Winter]

DE was not an option for us because of where we live. We did outsource a few things - physics, upper level math, some writing, entrepreneurship, and Spanish. I could have taught all subjects (maybe not Spanish) but with other dc to teach there was not enough time to do it all. The rest I taught and at least hope I did a decent job.  Last year I had all three stages at once - grammar, logic, and rhetoric. <insert going crazy icon>. This year has been so much easier with just logic and grammar.

[Ellie]

So a kid can go into CC with no documentation and then transfer to a state university with no problem, but a totally home schooled kid with a perfect score on the SAT or ACT will not be considered. Does that make sense?

 

In California, yes, although I didn't say that a totally homeschooled child with a perfect score on SAT "will not be considered." I just said that a CC transfer student is guaranteed to be accepted.

[regentrude]

I homeschool for academic reasons. I have no ideology attached to HOMEschooling; I do what is best for my children's education.

This meant that we do some classes at home and others are outsourced. I have outsourced subjects I am not qualified to teach or facilitate, such as upper level foreign language studies.

I am also taking into account my children's personality needs. My very extroverted DD thrives in a classroom atmosphere with fellow students and a live teacher, and she has been taking some classes at the university since 10th grade to fulfill this need while getting a rigorous education. I would do her a disservice if I prevented her from doing this solely because I am invested in HOMEschooling everything.

 

I do not know any homeschooling families in real life who have similar academic goals. Those who I personally know to be homeschooling all the way through high school at home either do not aim for college at all, or plan for community college; none are aiming at highly selective universities.

 

Btw, I have a general issue with dividing people into "proper" HOMEschoolers and others. What about a family who uses a program like American School at home and follows their curriculum to the letter? The entire schooling takes place at home as a location, but there is no parental design and input into courses, materials, methodology. Would you, OP, count these people as truer "home"schoolers than a family who completely customizes their children's education but utilizes outside sources? I do not think these distinctions are meaningful at all. If anything, the location where schooling happens is rather irrelevant; what matters is whether the parents are actively involved in designing their child's education. So, to me, being enrolled in a cyber school and doing schoolwork at home is not fundamentally different from being enrolled in a brick&mortar school.

[kiana]

I don't think that people should be compelled to use DE. But I can't see why parents should feel compelled to NOT use it if it's what is best for their specific child, either. This sort of black-and-white all-or-nothing thinking is exactly what the PS does, just in the opposite direction.

[Lori D.]

Does anyone *home* school high school anymore? ...  I'm wondering if this is a national trend.  Are families in your area still *home*schooling through the high school years?

 

Yes, we did. And most of the families in our area do, too.

 

Actually, in our area, the trend for the past 6-8 years has been just the opposite of what you suggest. Homeschoolers here are now continuing to homeschool through high school -- whereas previously, the trend was to homeschool up through 5th or 6th grade, or maybe 8th grade, and then put students into private or public school for the high school years, due to lack of parent confidence.

 

Now, not only do we see more homeschoolers continuing to school through the high school years, but I'm seeing a LOT of families pulling their students from public/private middle school precisely in order TO homeschool through the middle/high school years. Talk about confidence! Going from never homeschooling, to jumping in at the most challenging time! ;)

 

 

re: parents not doing the teaching during high school:

Personally, we only outsourced 2 classes in the senior year for each of our DSs -- 2 semesters of dual enrollment at the local Community College (CC) for foreign language, and one DS took drumming lessons outside the home, as that was not something either DH and I could have managed. DH and I did everything else ourselves at home. In retrospect, I DO wish I had ALSO outsourced the writing for each DS for 1-2 semesters. Other than that, I am pretty content with what we did.

 

Most of the families in our homeschool group actually DO homeschool the majority of classes at home, and use the CC for dual enrollment for anywhere from 2-8 classes, usually when their students turn 16. A few who can afford it use a handful of online courses (ALEKS, Potter's School, etc.) -- usually to outsource specific areas the parents feel weak in and want to provide strong teaching/mentoring for their student: math, writing, foreign language, and science. 

 

Use of the CC for dual enrollment is NOT a new trend here, but has been a very viable path all along for homeschool families with students who are advanced and ready for the challenge that college-level courses have to offer. The recent plethora of online courses has been a nice addition here for parents to expand their students' options.

 

 

re: parent-shared co-ops:

The only co-ops that were available to us during our DSs' high school years  were just as you described -- parents coming together to offer what they had. BUT, what was able to be offered were lite "enrichment" classes (about 12 hours per semester per class) -- NOT worth the money from our wallet or time out of our schedule to count towards real high school credit, nor offering any topics that DSs were interested in pursuing as hobbies or personal interests.

 

And, at the risk of sounding boastful, while the academic-based co-op classes were run by very well-meaning parents who were generous enough to take time from their busy schedules to oversee classes -- not one class was as rigorous as what we do here at home, or offered something more/different than what I was putting together for our home classes... So co-op classes really weren't worth it for us.

 

... In recent years though homeschooling has become a business...at least in our area... It is challenging socially and academically to find other families who still see value in an at home, parent directed high school education.  This  trend seems to suggest if a student is not enrolled in these outside classes, the education is less valid ...

 

Not the trend here. I think it's because the group actvities are all about relationship, mentoring, community service opportunities to encourage leadership and maturity, and opportunities to enjoy shared interests together.

 

 We have a VERY strong homeschool group of about 150 families, with over 100 students in the grade 6-12 age group. Many of the students serve on the homeschool group Student Council (which plans/executes a monthly youth activity and a monthly community service activity). In addition to those regular activities, there are several other "clubs" that meet regularly where students get to know each other and families form relationships (lots of Awana families; Youth & Gov't delegation; regular ballroom dancing; airsoft and/or paintball events; etc.).

 

For the parents, there are bi-weekly mentoring group times during the time students have PE; a monthly mom's night out for social time; and several evening sessions a year on how-to homeschool high school.

 

To be honest, I don't think most of us even know what the academic standards of other families are, or what they are using to fulfill high school credits. So no trend here to look down on those who outsource, or on those who do it all at home...

 

 

Original Poster: So sorry you are not receiving the local support that was such a blessing to us in our years of homeschooling! Hope that will change for you. Warmest regards, Lori D.

[snowbeltmom]

Please don't misunderstand me. Outsourcing can be beneficial. But it can take many forms. One thing that does bother me, though, is when a "homeschooling support group" becomes so powerful through marketing its online classes that certain colleges in that state (PA) have actually required homeschoolers to have a diploma through that organization. Hopefully, this is no longer the case. Your freedom to outsource should not take away my freedom to do it myself.

 

:iagree:

 

This organization has made it more difficult for homeschoolers to matriculate to certain colleges in PA.  There was a thread last year about this issue and the University of Pittsburgh.  I don't think that issue was ever resolved despite the efforts of some on WTM.

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

I homeschool high school.  Ds has had a tutor on occasion but I monitored his daily work.  Ds has an online class now but it is once a week and again I monitor his daily work.  And of course I actually teach or facilitate his other classes.  

[snowbeltmom]

I did a search on the Richmans and PA Hsing but not coming up with any links other than Richmans' site. I thought the kerfuffle was calmed down, with both PA Hsers AND other ways to hs in PA working? Please link to the current status. Thanks.

I haven't been able to copy and paste for the past week or so, but quick google searches indicate that the issue with U of Pittsburgh still exists today, which is frustrating considering the letters this college received from WTM members last year trying to educate them on how homeschooling works in this country.

 

If you google "U of Pittsburg", they have a blurb indicating what they require from homeschoolers - documentation that would be impossible for a homeschooler in Ohio to provide.

 

If you google "PA Homeschoolers diploma" you will find that the diploma mill money maker enterprise is still in operation.  Their website is phaa.org

[idnib]

A student can get into UC based on test scores alone. But the requirements are very high so you're taking a bit of a chance if you go that route, depending on when you take the test and get the scores.

 

http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/freshman/requirements/examination/

 

So a kid with a perfect SAT would practically get in somewhere in the UC system, but they don't guarantee anything like they do in other circumstances:

 

http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/freshman/california-residents/index.html

[Ellie]

 CA also has a fair number of public charter schools that support independent (@ home) study for the upper grades, which makes your student *look like* a public school student, which makes for easier admission to state universities/colleges and many also offer teh 2-day class/3-day @ home model.

 

Can't speak for others, but I think it's better to just be a private school (less regulation/oversight) and avoid the schools that don't want my money (the UCs especially) or else get in by a different pathway (dual enrollment/AA thru the CC).

 

They don't just make your student look like a public school student. They *are* public school students.

 

Otherwise, ITA with you.

[Excelsior! Academy]

We are homeschooling high school.  The only things we outsource are extracurriculars like speech and debate and TeenPact.  Those classes would be impossible to recreate at home.  Everything else is done at home.

[cathmom]

It's very common in my area and with the homeschoolers I know to have high schoolers involved in multiple outside classes, coops, dual enrollment, middle college, or whatever.

[Barbara H]

It is worth noting that general expectations have also gone up for public and private students. It is much more common for college bound students to take four years of core academics, to take calculus in high school, to take foreign language, and to take APs. That's not to say homeschoolers should necessarily do the same things. Rather, it is to say that I don't think it is a fair characterization to say that homeschoolers who outsource are changing what colleges expect from homeschoolers. What selective colleges expect has simply changed for all students - public, private and homeschooled. 

 

As far as the general question, I'm of the mindset that a diversity of choices is a very positive thing. Homeschooling is at its best when we make the choices that make sense for our own families and we support other homeschoolers as they do the same for their families. Even different kids in the same family often need very different things. Our obligation as homeschoolers isn't to prove homeschooling is better or persuade others to do things the same way we do. Our responsibility is to do what is best for our kids. Fortunately few of these choices are ever the one thing that makes life okay or not okay. There are lots of different paths to a happy adult life. Kids aren't going to be 40 years old and looking back upset about what Latin curriculum they used or that they took the dual enrollment class instead of the homeschool co-op. Or, if they are about that's about a lot more than Latin curriculum!

[MerryAtHope]

Fewer and fewer here, but there are some. Many join things like CC, or another once a week type school, and then homeschool the other 4 days based on that. Truthfully, the idea of that does have some appeal to me, but CC isn't a fit for us, and the once a week school would mean about 2 hours of driving on that day. So, I evaluate each year, but always end up deciding homeschooling is the best fit for us. 

 

 

[Willa]

We live in a rural area with very few locals who hs through highschool so we have essentially done it on our own (except for 4th ds who attended local public high school because that was the only way he could participate in varsity athletics).    We couldn't afford online classes and during my oldest childrens'  highschool years, we had medically fragile younger children so we couldn't really commit to set courses anyway.    There are no co-ops within 50 miles, etc, and we have only one car.    Local CC is 50 miles away and does not allow DE except for ps students.    So we just used textbooks and whatever else and the kids mostly learned on their own.  

 

Two of the olders went to private liberal arts college through scholarships and loans and did very well in spite of their complete lack of previous classroom experience.  Both are graduated -- one is married and presently a SAHW/M while one is working as a computer programmer and doing well.  One ds is working his way slowly through CC 2-year transfer degree to 4-year univ.  He's also doing well and has joined a CC honor society and gets high recs from his professors.  The next one is a senior in high school and will probably live with his older brother in Oregon so he can attend CC there (instead of making the 100 mile round trip commute here in our area).    

 

Just to share our experience.    I know it's not exactly typical even for hsers nowadays.  We started homeschooling in 1995.    Some years we enrolled in Kolbe Academy, some years we didn't, according to finances, but for the most part we designed our own curriculum.  

[G5052]

And education in general has changed. The local high school now channels students who need more obscure AP classes to online learning rather than offering those courses themselves. They have several "open lab" periods when students go to a certain room with an aid present to do those courses on their own. The community college hosts a special science/math/research program where high school students go there half the day, and also oversees high school teachers teaching dual enrollment classes at the high school.  Colleges are offering more online and hybrid (partially online) courses, and there's much more willingness to accept community college credits in the state 4-year schools than there was 15 years ago when I started as a professor.  In general, everything is much fluid, and there is more mix-and-match education.

 

So it isn't surprising to me that there is also more of this in homeschooling.  Frankly it has kept us in the game during years when I didn't think we could keep homeschooling.  Now for us it is more about being able to take some of the load off of me because I need to work, and also to provide more than I can in certain areas.  Mine are about 1/3 outsourced, but I am very careful with that and don't take the selection of teachers and curriculum lightly.  When I outsourced everything, I wasn't that happy frankly, but we were in a tough spot and had to do that or put them in school. 

[creekland]

  I'm not so sure about the problems with UPitt. We're in NY(so no "real" diploma), but homeschooled 9th and 10th grades in TX. No outside classes, just SAT, ACT, and SATII. My son had no problems getting accepted to UPitt, their honors program, and over $30,000 in merit awards. He chose to go elsewhere, but there certainly weren't any hassles with the application, so maybe things did improve?

 

The problem (when we did it two years ago) was not getting accepted to or merit aid from Pitt.  It was that they insisted on having a transcript from a third party before they would let you start your second year (or was it semester... poor memory on my part).  If you couldn't provide one by then, you and the Dean had to come up with an acceptable alternative.  It was really weird.  Had my guy really wanted to go there, we'd have figured something out (in writing) before I would let him start as there was never going to be a diploma from a third party (just us).  However, he ended up liking U Rochester better and it came in a little bit less expensive, so we never had to follow up.

 

[angela in ohio]

I guess I see that as an oversimplification...

 

Some of the "pioneers" whom I have spoken with locally utilized community college courses many years ago. Some also hired tutors from the local university to teach their dc one-on-one or utilized correspondence courses.

 

Around here, it was common up until about five years ago to send dc to school when they got to high school, because the parent didn't want to do school fully at home or felt unable to handle teaching certain high school subjects, but there weren't as many options. It was all or nothing, so many gave up homeschooling all together.

 

Many of the people I know who you might consider "fully at *home*" are actually doing something like BJU distance, so really the only difference there is location.

 

The mom-run and taught coops were not always all they were cracked up to be. You can find posts here about that, and we had several negative experiences with lack of ability and/or effort.

 

Anyway, I still know plenty of homeschoolers locally who don't utilize any outside courses, or if they do, only mom-taught coops. That isn't what we chose, considering what my dc's college and career goals were, but it isn't unheard of around here.

 

 

 

[NASDAQ]

I don't know the first thing about home schooling in PA, except that it's rumoured to be difficult. We are a long way from PA here.

 

Historically, home schooling through high school has always been much less common than home schooling through elementary school. I think the proliferation of alternative schooling options draws people into home schooling who otherwise wouldn't consider it.

 

I am teaching my kids at home to give them the best possible education. I hold few personal ideologies that I would not jettison if my children's education was at stake. And I have a very high and rather specific standard for "good." So I'm going to do whatever is best for them in high school, even if that has a negative effect on home schooling as a whole.