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Potentially New Ohio Law on Homeschooling


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http://www.tribtoday.com/page/content.detail/id/597010/-Teddy-s-law---would-battle-child-abuse.html?nav=5021

 

"The legislation Cafaro is pushing, if passed, would require the background checks and interviews before the children are allowed to become a part of a home school or online program.

School and children service officials would be able to access a statewide data base to determine whether there are past or current abuse investigations against anyone in the child's household. In addition, the guardian must submit to an in person with the child's parents or guardians, and they must allow the children to have age appropriate interviews.

If there are records of child abuse by anyone in the household or if the interviews elicit negative information, it must be passed on to the local superintendent or educational leader."

 

What do you think?  

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I think it'll never pass.

 

Given that Ohio is sort of middle of the road in what is currently required of homeschoolers, that is,

 

 

it doesn't seem to me that the community will stand for more than that.

 

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I think there should be better oversight of abuse of homeschooled children. A record of child abuse would preclude one from teaching in a public school and I don't believe a known child abuser should be allowed to homeschool.

 

That said, the interview portion seems over the top. If there is no record of founded child abuse, there should be no further oversight.

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Wow!   :ohmy:  Ummm, I certainly don't want a child put in an abusive situation and isolated from anyone who might be able to help, but I could see that being abused really fast and significantly endangering the ability of parents to even have the option to homeschool at all in Ohio.

 

Here is a suggestion, so we even the playing field and really help protect kids.... What if ALL potential parents' household's go through screening before they even have kids, and families with kids already in school should also have screenings to determine who else may be at risk.  After all, abuse can happen during after school hours.... :glare:  :tongue_smilie:

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I think there should be better oversight of abuse of homeschooled children. A record of child abuse would preclude one from teaching in a public school and I don't believe a known child abuser should be allowed to homeschool.

 

That said, the interview portion seems over the top. If there is no record of founded child abuse, there should be no further oversight.

Exactly.  The interview part could so, so easily be abused by those who are anti-homeschooling or just ignorant of homeschooling.

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Why not do background checks on ALL parents?  After all, some children are too young to go to school.  How do authorities know if those children are safe?  What about all the kids coming home from school to a possibly abusive parent?  It seems ridiculous.

 

Beth

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I think they have this false idea that if kids go to 'typical school', they will be safe from abuse. Schools miss the signs of abuse every.day and so the idea that schools will catch the abuse before something bad happens is just wrong. 

 

I can understand wanting to make sure that abusive parents are not homeschooling, particularly after a death of a young man in that very situation. But it's a small bandaid on a very large wound. It will not stop abusive parents from abusing kids - it just makes people feel better that something is being done. 

 

I think there's also a slippery slope here, that I can't seem to articulate right now until I've had at least one more coffee lol. 

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(1) Based on the in-person meetings conducted under division (A) or (of section 2151.4210 of the Revised Code, the agency determines it is not in the best interest of the child to grant admission of the child to an internet- or computer-based community school or grant the excuse from attendance at school;

 

 

This doesn't necessarily even have to be related to child abuse.  The "agency" could simply not believe in homeschooling and think it is never in the child's best interests.  Hasn't the right to homeschool already gone through the courts?

 

 

 

Cafaro said there would be very little administrative costs to implement this program.

 

Surely they jest.  All the people doing those interviews, background checks, behavioral assessments and

 

"(3) Any other services the department and the state board determine to be necessary for the success of the program."

 

 charge hundreds of dollars.

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In the state I am in (Texas) we have pretty lenient laws (very) but CPS  finds ways to abuse those laws all the time.  There have been incidents, even recently, where kids are forcibly removed from homes just because a neighbor (or even a grandparent) doesn't like homeschooling and files a false report.  Parents have to fight to prove there was no abuse.

 

What is scary is what nearly happened this year to give CPS even more power in Texas.   CPS was working the legislation to get a law passed this year that would require parents to pay for ALL legal fees if a child is pulled from the home and CPS can take a child out of the home with little more than a complaint, no real investigation.  They could then, even if a trial shows no reason for the child to have been removed from the home, continue to keep the child and force a second trial, again entirely at the parents' expense, without much of a formal investigation at all.  This would affect anyone, not just homeschoolers, but obviously could have a HUGE impact on homeschoolers, especially since most are single income families. The wording was tricky and it very nearly made it through to the next level disguised as something else, where it could easily have passed.   THSC, thankfully, was monitoring and found it, did some crazy last minute maneuvering to stop it and it has currently been pulled from the line-up of potential laws.  Why were they pushing this?  Because CPS had been told that if they could get the legislation passed, the government would give them a couple of million dollars, not because this law would actually help anyone... except CPS   CPS really wanted the money and the lack of requirements for in depth investigations was also very appealing.  If you dig deeper, the creation of the potential law appears mainly to be because the government is tired of paying all the legal fees for all the poorly investigated cases piling up because of CPS mismanagement and lack of training (at least here in many parts of Texas there are tremendous issues with CPS....).

 

Even though homeschooling is legal in all 50 states at this time, that could change in a heart beat if people aren't paying attention.

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Here's what it comes down to: it presumes guilt.  It presumes that the reason you may want to homeschool is to abuse your child.  It also tries to put all education of all children into that proverbial cookie cutter; the list of what is to be taught is twice as long and specific as the current law. The more I think about it, the more appalled and angry I get.

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This ridiculous bill is infringing on our rights as homeschoolers.  There is more in this bill than just the home visits, etc.  The bill also gets way more specific on what educational subjects the state of Ohio currently requires us to teach.

 

While the murder of a 14 year old is tragic, I don't see how this proposed legislation could have prevented this boy's death.  The boy was murdered by his mother's boyfriend who lived at another residence, so the government agencies that came to investigate the home environment would never have met the boyfriend to begin with.

 

The boy's father said that the mom and boyfriend isolated his son, so the school authorities couldn't see the signs of abuse.  Where was the boy's father while his son was being isolated and abused?  If the boy's own father didn't see the signs of abuse, how can anyone expect that a one time visit by a social worker would accomplish anything.

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This bill  infringes on our parental rights.  If the child does not want to homeschool, according to this bill, the agency has the right to deny us the ability to homeschool.

 

When my 8 year old was in public school, it was a battle to get him to go to school every.single.day.  Somehow, I don't think the agency would be so accommodating if my 8 year old would have said to them in an interview that he didn't want to go to public school and would like to stay home and homeschool instead.

 

I consider it my responsibility as a parent to determine the best educational environment for my child.  An 8 year old is not qualified to make that decision and the state should not have the power to grant an 8 year old the power to override a decision made by his parents.

 

Hopefully, this bill will die a quick death.

 

 

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I just got off the phone with a member of state Senator Cafaro's staff.  I asked her how this bill would have prevented this boy's death.  She told me it would have enabled children's services to come into the home and investigate.  She did not have a response when I asked how a home visit would have helped since the man responsible for the boy's death did not live in the home.

 

This staffer could then tell me that as soon as the officials at the boy's public school started questioning both the boy and the mother about the signs of abuse they noticed when he came to school, the boy's mother immediately pulled him out and enrolled him in an online public school.

 

This staffer also did not have answer when I asked her why the public school officials did not report the abuse they saw to children's services!!!!

 

The staffer said she would forward my question to another member of the staff who may be able to answer that question! 

 

Maybe instead of writing a bill that tramples our homeschooling rights, Senator Cafaro should spend her time investigating why the public school dropped the ball and did not report the signs of abuse to Children's Services!

 

ETA: The NBC local news station reported that the child abuse was reported by Hubbard Schools. 

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I left a voicemail message and also emailed the following comments: I am writing to express my strong disapproval of SB 248. This bill accuses parents of criminal activity simply because they have chosen to exercise their legal right to homeschool, unfairly singles out homeschooling families, with no justification or probable cause, for government intervention not required of other families, and would be a bureaucratic, political, and economic nightmare for the state of Ohio. This bill is short-sighted and reactionary and not based on any rational approach to solving the problem of child abuse. Homeschooling is, and has been for decades, a legal right, and the state has no right to to treat homeschooling families as potential criminals for availing themselves of this right. I cannot strongly enough express my outrage at this bill, and I request that it be immediately withdrawn.

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How do you cross post?  You might want to put this over on the education board, too, so that more people will see it.  Damage to homeschooling laws in one state can affect all the other states as well, and even the international homeschooling situation.  It can have a domino effect.  This is important for any family who homeschools or wants the right to homeschool under reasonable laws and guidelines.

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We already do this here in my State in Australia. It's no big deal. A person from the education department comes to your house, makes sure it's appropriate for schooling ie enough light, appropriate furniture. They chat to the kids...ask them their favourite subjects and what their hobbies are. They go through a plan of what we will be teaching them to make sure we are covering the 8 learning areas.

 

So far no family has ever been rejected for homeschooling bar one....and that was because they were keeping their kids home for cheap labour in their family store.

 

I don't find it invasive and I have no problem with the State checking up on the safety and education of children.

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I don't find it invasive and I have no problem with the State checking up on the safety and education of children.

 

This is more than the state just checking up on the kids without cause (which I am also opposed to).  This bill gives the government the right to determine whether a family can homeschool. 

 

A five year old should not have the power to overrule the educational choices made by his parents.  This bill gives the 5 year old that power.

 

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This is more than the state just checking up on the kids without cause (which I am also opposed to). This bill gives the government the right to determine whether a family can homeschool.

 

A five year old should not have the power to overrule the educational choices made by his parents. This bill gives the 5 year old that power.

 

Well that law is already in place here. We can't homeschool without permission from the education department...hence the interview. If you pass you get a letter of exemption that lasts for 12 months. They do the home visits yearly. As I said ...so far no one has ever been refused permission except for one family who was clearly doing the wrong thing.

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Well that law is already in place here. We can't homeschool without permission from the education department...hence the interview. If you pass you get a letter of exemption that lasts for 12 months. They do the home visits yearly. As I said ...so far no one has ever been refused permission except for one family who was clearly doing the wrong thing.

 

So if a five year old said during his one on one interview with the government official that he didn't want to be homeschooled, under your laws, the family would have to send him to public school?

 

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If a parent has a documented history of abuse, should there not already be some oversight of the kids' welfare, whether homeschooled or not?

 

I understand why they are doing this.  Often when a child is badly abused, the fact comes out that nobody's seen the child for weeks, months, even years, because the parents have been hiding the abuse.  A kid in school is at least seen by other human beings.  You can at least be fairly sure he is occasionally being fed and not locked in a closet to sleep in his own waste....

 

I agree it's too much.  But, as an adoptive parent, with no history of any mistreatment of kids, crime, or any other concerns, I had to go through quite a bit of scrutiny, including many home visits etc.  It was stressful, but I did it willingly because it was a means to an end.  Though the oversight did end 3 years after I took custody.  I think what I had to do was too much as well.  But no two people will probably agree on where to draw the line on the protection of kids.

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Well that law is already in place here. We can't homeschool without permission from the education department...hence the interview. If you pass you get a letter of exemption that lasts for 12 months. They do the home visits yearly. As I said ...so far no one has ever been refused permission except for one family who was clearly doing the wrong thing.

I really am glad that it is working where you live.  Thankfully, the people supervising these visits must be fair-minded people not opposed to homeschooling.  That is great.

 

I wish that were true everywhere, but it is not.  I have seen a lot of abuse of the laws governing homeschooling in the United States in the nearly two years since we started homeschooling.  Until I did homeschool, I never heard anything.  Media really doesn't cover much in the way of homeschooling stories in our area unless it is some extreme wacko.  Now that I homeschool and actively keep tabs on the local and state news. I do see an alarming trend.  There HAD been a slow but steady progression towards more and more support for homeschooling and a better understanding of this choice.  That trend seems to be changing in some areas of Texas.  Politics is stepping in and it doesn't look so rosy now... 

 

The stricter the rules the easier it is to abuse them from the State and Federal Government side of things.  This is not an anti-government statement.  This is concern that because abuse has already occurred (at least in my state) that passing something like this in ANY state here could lead to homeschoolers being straight-jacketed and eventually even having homeschooling removed as a viable option.  There is still a big lack of understanding of homeschooling as a choice in many areas of the U.S..  Many ignorant people believe that only weirdos and crazzies and people with extreme belief systems homeschool, so there is this superior attitude among a lot of CPS workers and legislators and school administrators that parents who homeschool don't have any clue how to take care of their kids.  They try to find any way that they can to stop them from homeschooling because they genuinely believe it is in the best interest of the child.  They see homeschooling itself as abuse.   Giving them more power to do that could lead to serious consequences.

 

It is NOT a balanced law and assumes guilt for homeschool families without proof.  Why should only homeschoolers be screened?  If you were to take a survey of known abuse cases around the country and look at the percentage of abused children in a b&m compared to the percentage of abused children in a homeschool setting, I wonder what the results would be?  I don't know, but I do know that the vast majority of homeschoolers I know personally are working extremely hard (and making tremendous sacrifices in a lot of instances), to help their kids.  I see loving families dedicated to helping their kids in any way that they can.  They homeschool because they really, really want to help their kids and that path, for their family, seems the best option.  

 

Do I think there should be SOME supervision?  Yes.  Although I wish it weren't so, there ARE those who abuse and a child being abused who is homeschooled is truly trapped in a nightmare situation where no one may be able to step in.  I just don't think a knee jerk reaction to one specific incident with extenuating circumstances is the way to go.  People need to cool off, take a step back, reevaluate what went wrong, look at the laws already on the books to see if those laws just need to be followed more closely, and think this through.  Knee jerk reaction legislation to one isolated incident is just a really bad idea...

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If a parent has a documented history of abuse, should there not already be some oversight of the kids' welfare, whether homeschooled or not?

 

I understand why they are doing this.  Often when a child is badly abused, the fact comes out that nobody's seen the child for weeks, months, even years, because the parents have been hiding the abuse.  A kid in school is at least seen by other human beings.  You can at least be fairly sure he is occasionally being fed and not locked in a closet to sleep in his own waste....

 

I agree it's too much.  But, as an adoptive parent, with no history of any mistreatment of kids, crime, or any other concerns, I had to go through quite a bit of scrutiny, including many home visits etc.  It was stressful, but I did it willingly because it was a means to an end.  Though the oversight did end 3 years after I took custody.  I think what I had to do was too much as well.  But no two people will probably agree on where to draw the line on the protection of kids.

There are laws on the books already in Ohio to address the issues of child abuse. 

 

This bill is named after a boy that was murdered by his mother's boyfriend. In this boy's case, the school system reported the abuse.  Rather than writing a bill that would have done nothing to prevent this boy's death, our elected officials should be launching a full scale investigation into why our current laws were not followed.  Some agency dropped the ball on this one. Homeschooling should not be the scapegoat.

 

 

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There are laws on the books already in Ohio to address the issues of child abuse. 

 

This bill is named after a boy that was murdered by his mother's boyfriend. In this boy's case, the school system reported the abuse.  Rather than writing a bill that would have done nothing to prevent this boy's death, our elected officials should be launching a full scale investigation into why our current laws were not followed.  Some agency dropped the ball on this one. Homeschooling should not be the scapegoat.

 

I agree, but there have been cases where kids were taken out of school to be "homeschooled," or were always "homeschooled," and ended up tortured to death.  I don't think it's a terrible thing for the kids to have to be seen by another human being from time to time.  Like maybe when they check in to file periodic reports or something.  I don't think they should have to go into every homeschooler's house with no prior evidence of abuse/neglect.

 

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I agree, but there have been cases where kids were taken out of school to be "homeschooled," or were always "homeschooled," and ended up tortured to death.  I don't think it's a terrible thing for the kids to have to be seen by another human being from time to time.  Like maybe when they check in to file periodic reports or something.  I don't think they should have to go into every homeschooler's house with no prior evidence of abuse/neglect.

 

 

While those rare cases are tragic, I don't think any legislation would prevent those abuses from happening.  This bill requires that an agency go into every homeschooler's home and conduct a one-on-one interview with the child to determine if homeschooling is in his best interest. 

 

This bill is scary.  Thankfully, I don't think it has any chance of getting out of committee, let alone passing.

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While those rare cases are tragic, I don't think any legislation would prevent those abuses from happening.  This bill requires that an agency go into every homeschooler's home and conduct a one-on-one interview with the child to determine if homeschooling is in his best interest. 

 

This bill is scary.  Thankfully, I don't think it has any chance of getting out of committee, let alone passing.

 

Hope you are right about the chances of passing, crazy!

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The exact same logic would indicate that children that are too young for school, and not in daycare, are at risk for abuse. Are they going to make me go through a process before giving me "permission" to keep my child with me rather than in daycare?  If it doesn't make sense for kids under school age it doesn't make sense for kids of school age. 

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Meh. The whole world and his dog can come and see how I home school. I've got no problem with it.

I don't have anything to hide, but this sort of interference with homeschooling sets a bad precedent. What if a future government decides that my homeschool isn't teaching the "correct" things? The U.S. has seen a tremendous erosion of religious liberty in recent years as a result of activist judges and I'm not optimistic about the future in this regard. The less involvement the government has over private homeschooling, the better.

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Meh. The whole world and his dog can come and see how I home school. I've got no problem with it.

 

However I totally agree that knee jerk policy is bad policy.

 

This is much more intrusive than a government worker coming and seeing how you homeschool. This government worker has to grant approval for you to homeschool. This is a drastic change to the current homeschooling laws in Ohio.  Currently in Ohio, we notify the school district that our children will be homeschooled; we do not need approval from the school district to homeschool.

 

In addition to inspecting your home and interviewing you, the government official will be conducting one on one interviews with each of your children.  If any of your children express a desire not to be homeschooled, the state will deny your right to homeschool that child. 

 

I have a major problem with this bill. It is infringing upon my parental rights just for starters.

 

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Crazy legislation gets proposed all the time, and it almost never passes.  If I lived in Ohio, I wouldn't be especially worried.  Once they start talking about how much it's going to cost to pay for all these background checks and interviews, I'd bet the bill will die a quick death.

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Teddy was abused for at least 2 years before his mother pulled him out to homeschool. Schools and family reported it to CPS. CPS dropped the ball, this had nothing to do with homeschooling. 

Wow.  I have read reports in multiple local papers today.  Only one article even mentioned the fact that the public school reported the abuse, while all of the other articles implied that the boy was removed from public school so the abuse could go undetected.

 

I guess the newspaper editors figure that if they published the facts in this case they would get in the way of another opportunity to disparage homeschooling.

 

 

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This makes me so mad !  Complete infringment of homeschoolers rights!

 

 

What about all the children who are abused by teachers (whom are not fired because of tenure), or by other staff members, or bullied by fellow students. What about protecting those children?

 

Maybe each staff member and student that set foot in a public school should be background checked and interviewed by parents every few months so parents can decide whether they feel their child is in a safe environment.  After all it is OUR children's safety at risk, right?! 

 

 

In this case homeschoolers should not be punished because the state failed to its job of investing existing reports of abuse.

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You can also see some of the conversation on the senator's Facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/pages/Senator-Capri-S-Cafaro/279952678729649 Teddy was in public school when his abuse was reported. This bill would not have helped him.

She also posted a letter (she could use an editor!) there responding to all the negative feedback she has received.

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Let's cut to the chase, homeschooling is legal in Ohio, child abuse is not. It is irrelevant whether a 5yo wants to be homeschooled - that is not a legal issue. Children that age are notorious for not choosing things that are best for them; green leafy vegetables, reasonable bed times, schooling in general sometimes. It is relevant if the child reports that he is being abused or shows specific physical or clinically recognized behavioral signals that abuse is taking place. And there are multiple laws already in place to address those situations. The big question here is why they were not followed.

 

So if a parent has been reported for child abuse, sure, follow up with the children to verify that it is not continuing. Regardless of the choice of educational systems for the child - public school, homeschool, private or parochial school, etc. This current matter should be focused on child abuse, the laws that exist to combat it, why those laws were not followed, and whether they should be revised. Changing the homeschool laws will not provide the answer. It would be a smokescreen to misdirect attention from why there was no/inadequate follow up to the public school abuse report.

 

 

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This law is really a shame. If you look at the Teddy's Law website, it's clear that the group is wants a law which makes removal of a child from public school difficult if that child currently has an open child services case. In other words, to prevent would-be abusers from removing at-risk children from daily interaction with mandatory reporters.

 

http://teddyslaw.org/

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The bill is even more outrageous that just CPS being able to decide whether or not we can homeschool.  There is also a section in there outlining an "Intervention program" for those that want to homeschool or virtual school. 

 

The department of job and family services and the state board of education shall jointly develop an intervention program to assist families who seek to provide instruction to school age children via an internet- or computer-based community school or at home. The program shall include the following:
(1) Behavioral counseling sessions, in both individual and group settings, for all of the persons identified in divisions ©(1), (2), and (3) of section 2151.4210 of the Revised Code.
(2) In-person classes on topics including parenting, decision-making, personal or household finance, and homeschooling;
(3) Any other services the department and the state board determine to be necessary for the success of the program.
(B) The department and the state board shall jointly develop a means of assessing participants in the intervention program to determine successful completion of the program.
© The department and the state board may jointly adopt rules, in accordance with Chapter 119. of the Revised Code, as necessary to develop and implement the intervention program.

 

I do believe this bill will die.  It is a complete political nightmare for anyone that touches it.  Not only are they angering the homeschoolers but they will have the virtual schoolers fighting it too including big companies like K12.  The legislature here in Ohio, on the whole, is currently pretty homeschooling friendly.  I think this is a just a fringe bill that will not get the support it needs to go anywhere. 

 

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