Potentially New Ohio Law on Homeschooling

[PeterPan]

I think the Australians commenting here seem to be missing that it's CPS (think child gestapo services, they can come in without warrant and just YANK OUT YOUR KIDS based on a whimsical accusatory phone call, no substantiation nothing) that would be enforcing this proposed law.  They're not going talking about it going through the education board (which is ELECTED) but through what is essentially gestapo in our country.  That's insane and just opening the door for abuses.  And since it was CPS's negligence apparently that didn't follow through on the poor abused child in the first place, I'm not sure how giving them MORE open doors and responsibilities helps.

[Melissa in Australia]

I think the Australians commenting here seem to be missing that it's CPS (think child gestapo services, they can come in without warrant and just YANK OUT YOUR KIDS based on a whimsical accusatory phone call, no substantiation nothing) that would be enforcing this proposed law.  They're not going talking about it going through the education board (which is ELECTED) but through what is essentially gestapo in our country.  That's insane and just opening the door for abuses.  And since it was CPS's negligence apparently that didn't follow through on the poor abused child in the first place, I'm not sure how giving them MORE open doors and responsibilities helps.

 

I did miss that point. I thought it was an education board checking up on them, not child protection

 

 A side point, not all states in Australia have education board homeschool visits. I live in Victoria. all I have to d here is sign a Stat Declaration each year that I am going to cover the key learning areas and that is it. No reporting, no standardized tests, no checking at all. You are free to do whatever you want.

[Tammi K]

I think they have this false idea that if kids go to 'typical school', they will be safe from abuse. Schools miss the signs of abuse every.day and so the idea that schools will catch the abuse before something bad happens is just wrong. 

 

I agree.

 

More than just missing the signs, how often is school actually the source of abuse? Bullying by fellow students, harassment by students and staff, kids tasered or handcuffed to chairs by police because the school doesn't know how to handle them....yeah, schools are such a safe place to send our kids and they'll keep them safe.

 

 

(((And, no, I don't think schools are a horrible place. I've sent some of my own kids to B&M schools. I just think the idea that less than perfect 'typical school' can be just as unsafe as a home schooled kid with a bad home life. )))

[Bee Happy]

Perhaps that was their first intent, but Teddy's father stated on Facebook that he understands the wording of the bill, and that it proposes that all homeschoolers be subjected to interviews and home visits. He says that we should be willing to give up some of our privacy for the goodwill of all children. 

 

Bull.

 

This bill will not help children. The abusers will put on a smile and get past the one or two interviews each year. Ridiculous. 

 

This law is really a shame. If you look at the Teddy's Law website, it's clear that the group is wants a law which makes removal of a child from public school difficult if that child currently has an open child services case. In other words, to prevent would-be abusers from removing at-risk children from daily interaction with mandatory reporters.

 

http://teddyslaw.org/

 

[snowbeltmom]

If the premise that public schools pick up abuse is false, this law starts in the wrong place. We should probably be examining exactly how abuse is picked up, and how it should be handled, regardless of where a child is being educated. 

 

:iagree:

In the case that supposedly is the impetus for this bill, the public school did notify authorities that this boy was being abused.  Absolutely nothing in this bill would have prevented this boy's death.  The boy's killer did not even share the same address at the boy's mom.

 

The state senator who introduced this bill should do three things:

 

1. Withdraw this bill immediately since it will do nothing to prevent child abuse

2. Launch a full scale investigation into why the government agencies did not follow the existing child abuse laws in the state of Ohio.

3. Read the U.S. Constitution

 

[PeterPan]

As a European outsider, I have mixed feelings about this. I do believe that homeschooling provides an easier way to hide abuse, and that educational neglect exists in a homeschooling context.

First, I'm SO sorry those teachers didn't intervene when you poured out your heart on the abuse.  That's incredible and horrendous, and it makes you question whether something like that could have happened with this boy Teddy.  

 

As far as homeschooling providing a way to hide abuse, I'm wondering if maybe that's underlying the thinking of these people??  It's just so unfathomable to me, because TO ACTUALLY HOMESCHOOL in Ohio, there are quite a few hoops to jump through: submit paperwork, provide a written list of what you're using, notify the school board with forms, do standardized testing or a portfolio review, show you have a degree or this or that.  You notice the abusive mother did NOT HOMESCHOOL in Ohio.  She did PUBLIC SCHOOL AT HOME.  In other words, she signed up with the easiest thing someone can do, totally paid for, no prep by mom, no expense, nothing.  Shouldn't THAT be the most obvious route for an abuser?  Complying with the extant homeschooling laws was complicated enough that WHEN SHE LOOKED FOR A ROUTE TO KEEP HIM HOME, homeschooling was NOT IT.  She chose public school at home, because THAT was the easiest way to hide her abuse.

 

Next, I sincerely hope someone is working on organizing an effort to get Cafaro out of office via the next election.  She has shown herself to be a loon and needs to be replaced.  Oh, I forgot, we're the state that kept Kusinich.  Nevertheless, a good primary fight to get her replaced would be a good idea.

[PeterPan]

:iagree:

In the case that supposedly is the impetus for this bill, the public school did notify authorities that this boy was being abused.  Absolutely nothing in this bill would have prevented this boy's death.  The boy's killer did not even share the same address at the boy's mom.

 

The state senator who introduced this bill should do three things:

 

1. Withdraw this bill immediately since it will do nothing to prevent child abuse

2. Launch a full scale investigation into why the government agencies did not follow the existing child abuse laws in the state of Ohio.

3. Read the U.S. Constitution

 

Oh but that wouldn't get her so much press coverage.   :coolgleamA: 

[Haiku]

Next, I sincerely hope someone is working on organizing an effort to get Cafaro out of office via the next election.  

 

She has reached her term limit and cannot be re-elected.

[Haiku]

I spoke with a staffer at Peggy Lehner's office. He called the bill "off the mark" and said that anyone can propose a bill but that the chances of this bill going anywhere are "highly unlikely." If you want, you can call your rep's office and ask to be added to their email alert list so that you will know whether this bill progresses to the hearing stage. If it does (and I doubt it will), my kids and I will be there!

 

[Audrey]

This doesn't necessarily even have to be related to child abuse.  The "agency" could simply not believe in homeschooling and think it is never in the child's best interests.  Hasn't the right to homeschool already gone through the courts?

 

 

Surely they jest.  All the people doing those interviews, background checks, behavioral assessments and

 

"(3) Any other services the department and the state board determine to be necessary for the success of the program."

 

 charge hundreds of dollars.

 

 

In gov-speak, this usually means that the petitioners (those wishing to homeschool) will incur all costs associated with petition.

[snowbeltmom]

 

It's just so unfathomable to me, because TO ACTUALLY HOMESCHOOL in Ohio, there are quite a few hoops to jump through: submit paperwork, provide a written list of what you're using, notify the school board with forms, do standardized testing or a portfolio review, show you have a degree or this or that.  You notice the abusive mother did NOT HOMESCHOOL in Ohio.  She did PUBLIC SCHOOL AT HOME.  

 

This is an excellent point that also has not been mentioned in the media.  This boy was not homeschooled.  The general public, including state Senator Cafaro, does not understand the legal distinctions between homeschooling and online public school.

 

Many of us in this thread have mentioned how the government agencies failed this teenager.  Where was this boy's dad and grandparents during his years of abuse?  Did the boy's dad try to get him removed from his mother's home?  If the dad did try to intervene, I have not seen it mentioned in the press. 

[littlebug42]

This is an excellent point that also has not been mentioned in the media.  This boy was not homeschooled.  The general public, including state Senator Cafaro, does not understand the legal distinctions between homeschooling and online public school.

 

Many of us in this thread have mentioned how the government agencies failed this teenager.  Where was this boy's dad and grandparents during his years of abuse?  Did the boy's dad try to get him removed from his mother's home?  If the dad did try to intervene, I have not seen it mentioned in the press. 

 

The bill would equally affect homeschoolers and any virtual schools.  Anyone who wants to school at home.

[goldberry]

I wouldn't have a problem with a background check.  I agree that anyone with a history of child abuse or violent crime shouldn't be allowed to isolate their children.

 

All the rest, no way.

[Haiku]

They don't care what sport your child plays.

 

But what if they did? What if, in addition to deeming me unfit to homeschool my children, they also deemed me unfit to determine the activities in which they could safely participate? As ridiculous as it sounds, it's really not such a stretch when you consider that this is Child Protective Services we're talking about, not some (supposedly) benign education official. Regardless of what is done in certain areas of Australia, in Ohio we have the right to inform our school district that we are homeschooling and receive an excusal from compulsory attendance. We are not required to submit to any sort of home visit or monitoring of what we do (aside from a yearly assessment via standardized test or portfolio review), and we shouldn't have to. It's fine if people in Australia don't mind, but people in Ohio do. Also, I would question the point of your education officials making home visits if no one is ever really denied. At that point it's just a charade, and an expensive one, at that.

[Haiku]

If this bill were to pass (although it won't, as the Senator has expressed via FB messages that she knows this version of the bill is already in the crapper), most people would just circumvent it by setting up 08 schools or enrolling in private umbrella schools, many of which would, I'm sure, spring up for just such a purpose.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

First, I'm SO sorry those teachers didn't intervene when you poured out your heart on the abuse.  That's incredible and horrendous, and it makes you question whether something like that could have happened with this boy Teddy.  

 

As far as homeschooling providing a way to hide abuse, I'm wondering if maybe that's underlying the thinking of these people??  It's just so unfathomable to me, because TO ACTUALLY HOMESCHOOL in Ohio, there are quite a few hoops to jump through: submit paperwork, provide a written list of what you're using, notify the school board with forms, do standardized testing or a portfolio review, show you have a degree or this or that.  You notice the abusive mother did NOT HOMESCHOOL in Ohio.  She did PUBLIC SCHOOL AT HOME.  In other words, she signed up with the easiest thing someone can do, totally paid for, no prep by mom, no expense, nothing.  Shouldn't THAT be the most obvious route for an abuser?  Complying with the extant homeschooling laws was complicated enough that WHEN SHE LOOKED FOR A ROUTE TO KEEP HIM HOME, homeschooling was NOT IT.  She chose public school at home, because THAT was the easiest way to hide her abuse.

 

Next, I sincerely hope someone is working on organizing an effort to get Cafaro out of office via the next election.  She has shown herself to be a loon and needs to be replaced.  Oh, I forgot, we're the state that kept Kusinich.  Nevertheless, a good primary fight to get her replaced would be a good idea.

Honestly, I have to disagree that public school at home is the easy way out. I did both homeschool and public school at home with my kid and both required hoops to jump through. There are many good, hard working people who do public school at home.

 

I am inclined to think that someone who really wants to isolate and abuse their kids will just "homeschool" off the grid and not follow any of those laws.

[Haiku]

I said I didn't want to argue with you.

 

I'm not arguing. You explained your position, and I explained mine.

[Lisbeth]

Meh. The whole world and his dog can come and see how I home school. I've got no problem with it.

 

However I totally agree that knee jerk policy is bad policy.

 

That's great in theory, but there have been several cases of biased social workers being anti-homeschooling.  And also, should the state trump your right as a parent to determine what is in the best interest of your child.  There are principles here, not just, I'm not doing anything wrong so I will give up my liberty.  Very dangerous, slippery slope.

[Lisbeth]

Haven't they caught several teachers abusing disabled kids, via hidden cameras or recorders the parents hide on a child?  Perhaps the social services dept. should interview all teachers and carefully review their lesson plans, including interviewing all of their students.  Every four years, or however often they determine necessary. 

 

I mean, if we want to get ridiculous...

[SKL]

I agree that the risk here is that some person or group or politically-motivated entity could allow anti-homeschooling bias to taint decisions, and thus make decisions that aren't always best for the children.

 

Not really sure how I feel about government intervention in homeschooling.  I lean libertarian, but after all, there's already a law forcing us all to put our kids into school.  Most Americans have no practical choice other than the local public school, obviously 100% controlled by the government.  Then there are some who can do the private / parochial school thing (still regulated, accredited, teachers have background checks, etc.).  So there is going to be some government control over how most kids spend a large chunk of their waking hours.  Is it wrong to extend some of that to the rest of the kids?

 

I am glad to hear that the law as currently drafted will be dead in the water.  However, don't be surprised if they eventually pass a skeleton of it.

[PeterPan]

I have been reading blogs written by young women who grew up being homeschooled within extremely conservative Christian movements, for instance. Terms used are, more specifically, "Quiverful", "fundamentalist" and "the Christian patriarchy movement". The situations these bloggers describe are surprising to me. I am European and simply did not know much about these movements. We're talking about girls who are looking after younger siblings and the house almost full-time, and who are actively being prevented from going to college. 

 

These women are angry, and they believe "homeschooling" to be responsible for their later lack of opportunities. On some blogs, women are saying that homeschool parents should be the first to call for more regulations that prevent this type of situation, if they want to uphold the reputation of homeschooling. 

 

Each state has written their own laws, so the accountability of the parents for the homeschooling really varies.  Ohio is middle of the road, specifying a list of subjects, amount of time, blah blah, and requiring both notification with that info at the beginning of the year and either test scores or a signed letter from an evaluator (certified teacher, other person agreed on) before you start the next year.  The standards are above the 25th percentile or making progress at ability level (SN caveat).  So to me, that's a reasonable amount of protection to make sure people don't totally fall off the bandwagon.  People might not AGREE with how they're getting educated, but at least it's assurance that a reasonable amount of education is happening.

 

There are other states that are much lower regs, almost to the point of no regs.  I agree that some accountability is a good thing and that I don't see how kids are protected from deadbeats in that situation.  I've read HSLDA endorses lower/no regs, and really it mystifies me as it seems to eliminate accountability and assume the best of human nature, which was all know isn't what you always get with people.  

 

I like the regs in Ohio.  I like that when I meet someone and kind of wonder about their dynamic or what they're getting done, I dno't HAVE to wonder.  I know there's a law in place and those kids either got tested, showing reasonable work, or they got seen by another human being who looked at their work.  So I think it would raise the question about where those kids are from that got shafted and whether they're from low regs states.  I'm not saying it doesn't happen, because I've seen transcripts from kids where that happened.  Just saying in Ohio we actually have laws to address that.  I'm guessing that's why many states put regs in place.

[OneStepAtATime]

So, to what extent are we, as homeschooling parents, responsible for preventing abuse and neglect in other homeschooling families? Does what happen or doesn't happen in other homeschooling families reflect on us at all?

 

I have been reading blogs written by young women who grew up being homeschooled within extremely conservative Christian movements, for instance. Terms used are, more specifically, "Quiverful", "fundamentalist" and "the Christian patriarchy movement". The situations these bloggers describe are surprising to me. I am European and simply did not know much about these movements. We're talking about girls who are looking after younger siblings and the house almost full-time, and who are actively being prevented from going to college. 

 

These women are angry, and they believe "homeschooling" to be responsible for their later lack of opportunities. On some blogs, women are saying that homeschool parents should be the first to call for more regulations that prevent this type of situation, if they want to uphold the reputation of homeschooling. 

 

Now, we can perhaps (perhaps!) talk about "public schools" as a single concept, debate how education within public schools can be improved, how funding should be used, how to handle social problems within schools, etc... but can we really have the same discussion about homeschooling? Isn't every homeschool a "world" of its own? When I decided to homeschool my kids, I did not join a political party with an ideology to defend or policies to fight for. I decided to take on the responsibility of educating MY children in the way that works for THEM, and that has nothing to do with other families.

 

I believe it to be in my family's interest to have as little government oversight as possible. I don't want anyone interviewing my kids, or having to approve me for homeschooling, or tell me what to teach and what not to teach. Yet this could be in the best interest of some children, and at the same time there are people who believe it to be in the best interest of my children. 

 

This is obviously a complicated issue. I don't think "homeschoolers" can be treated as a collective, and I believe in personal responsibility. But I know that while you and I are working to give our kids an excellent education, there are others who use "homeschooling" as a front for something quite different. Is it our responsibility to try to prevent that, even if it is detrimental to us? 

You make valid points.  I also think there would be more support for homeschooling if this oversight was done by a trustworthy entity that was fair and unbiased, and had checks and balances in place to prevent it from abusing its power.  It would also help to have media coverage of positive homeschooling stories occur far more often than they do now, and it would help a lot also if that coverage were fair and unbiased.  Sadly, I don't think this will happen.

 

I do agree that unfortunately there are those who will take their kids off grid or at least out of school to homeschool for darker purposes.  The more negative cases involving some form of homeschooling or schooling at home that come up, the more the general public may turn against homeschooling as a viable option, since only the negative cases are really heard about.  It also may mean more child abusers will turn to homeschooling since that option has now been put in their heads as a way to avoid detection.  Effective oversight could help prevent or stop at least some of those cases, something I would think we all would surely want to have happen.    This would hopefully help homeschooled kids that are abused and also help homeschoolers in general, as you stated.  Won't help the kids in public school, though, and there are a LOT more of those than of homeschoolers and kids who school at home.

 

The individual states already have oversight of some kind for homeschooling, although for some it is really, really bare minimum and could probably use tweaking.   I just don't know how to achieve fair oversight that maintains a good balance between helping prevent abuse of or neglect of children while also protecting the rights of the non-abusive parents to make decisions for their own kids.  My kids had some great teachers and a great administrator in b&m, and I am grateful for many of the experiences they had there, but none of them understood my kids' learning issues and did not recognize that they needed a different path to follow.  CPS certainly wouldn't have understood my decision to homeschool if the teachers that saw my kids ever day (who, except for one, really cared) didn't see or understand.

 

I really wish I new the answer because trends affecting laws now can lead us further and further down a slippery slope to possibly even no homeschooling at all or can lead us down a much brighter path for the future of homeschooling as a viable option.  

 

On a side note, I would love to see CPS completely overhauled.  The organization is given a TON of money every year, but it is so poorly run that most of that money is wasted and abuse of the system (and kids in their system) occurs daily.  I doubt an overhaul will ever happen, though.

[Farrar]

So, to what extent are we, as homeschooling parents, responsible for preventing abuse and neglect in other homeschooling families? Does what happen or doesn't happen in other homeschooling families reflect on us at all?

 

This is pretty much where I come down on these questions these days.  

 

I dislike seeing both the knee-jerk government policy making in response to a child's death (we had that EXACT thing happen here several years ago) and the homeschooling community's knee-jerk "stay out of my business!" attitude.  Neither is a good response in my opinion.  Both sides should be looking for ways to ensure children's safety with the least cost and intrusion instead of just dogmatically accusing each other.

 

In this case, it sounds like the whole legislation is unlikely to get anywhere and is massively overstepping besides (did someone mention behavioral psych evals for all hs kids?  talk about over the top...).  But the idea of background checks seems reasonable, if possibly redundant (surely if you have a history of child abuse with a child at home you should already have the government monitoring you to some extent) and I think it's fair to bring up these issues.  If this legislation wouldn't have prevented this child's death, then what, if anything, would have?  And how could the homeschool community help prevent deaths like this?  If legislation isn't the answer, then what is?  Should there be a stronger culture of reporting suspected abuse in the homeschool community?  It often feels to me like questions like these are big taboos, but I don't think they should be.

[Crimson Wife]

We're talking about girls who are looking after younger siblings and the house almost full-time, and who are actively being prevented from going to college.

When these girls turn 18, they are legally entitled to leave home and go to college if they desire. Maybe they might need remedial classes but then so do a LOT of PS graduates.

 

Yes, it's difficult for those who have grown up within a cult (because frankly, that's what these churches are IMHO) to leave but people manage to do it.

[OneStepAtATime]

This is pretty much where I come down on these questions these days.  

 

I dislike seeing both the knee-jerk government policy making in response to a child's death (we had that EXACT thing happen here several years ago) and the homeschooling community's knee-jerk "stay out of my business!" attitude.  Neither is a good response in my opinion.  Both sides should be looking for ways to ensure children's safety with the least cost and intrusion instead of just dogmatically accusing each other.

 

In this case, it sounds like the whole legislation is unlikely to get anywhere and is massively overstepping besides (did someone mention behavioral psych evals for all hs kids?  talk about over the top...).  But the idea of background checks seems reasonable, if possibly redundant (surely if you have a history of child abuse with a child at home you should already have the government monitoring you to some extent) and I think it's fair to bring up these issues.  If this legislation wouldn't have prevented this child's death, then what, if anything, would have?  And how could the homeschool community help prevent deaths like this?  If legislation isn't the answer, then what is?  Should there be a stronger culture of reporting suspected abuse in the homeschool community?  It often feels to me like questions like these are big taboos, but I don't think they should be.

Yes.  Knee jerk reactions on any side are counterproductive (just look at Congress).  

[snowbeltmom]

If this legislation wouldn't have prevented this child's death, then what, if anything, would have?  And how could the homeschool community help prevent deaths like this?  If legislation isn't the answer, then what is?  Should there be a stronger culture of reporting suspected abuse in the homeschool community?  It often feels to me like questions like these are big taboos, but I don't think they should be.

These are the questions our elected officials should be trying to answer.  From some of the articles I have read over the last two days, it seems that many different individuals were aware that this child was being abused.  The public school reported the abuse to CPS.  The neighbors reported the abuse to CPS.  I don't know what measures, if any,  the dad or grandparents took. 

 

The school system and neighbors did everything they could legally do to protect this child.  Why didn't CPS remove this boy from the care of his mother after receiving multiple calls reporting abuse?  Why under these circumstances was this boy not living with his father?

 

A couple of years ago, I had my only exposure to CPS after reporting a neighbor.  I came to find out later that the public school had also reported this family to CPS on more than one occasion, both before and after my report was filed.  CPS came out and visited the home soon after my phone call, but absolutely NOTHING worthwhile was done.  The abuse continued. (The family has since moved to another state.)

 

I have no idea how CPS is structured or what rules and regulations they are required to follow.  It seems obvious that this agency needs to be investigated to determine why exactly it is failing to live up to its mission to protect abused children. 

 

 

 

 

[Farrar]

These are the questions our elected officials should be trying to answer.  

 

I think the community being legislated should also proactively consider such questions as well.  And that, when possible, a community should look for ways to solve such issues without legislation.

 

It does seem from what little I know about this case that this boy and his family were not really part of the wider homeschooling community and therefore there's probably not much that could be done.  Furthermore, when he was in school, there were signs that were ignored and not followed up on, which should prompt people to look at CPS.  However, when cases like this happen, it prompts many in the larger society to ask questions about safeguards for homeschoolers suffering abuse.  However, it never seems to lead homeschoolers themselves to say, wow, I wonder if there's anything *we* could have done to prevent a child in our community from becoming a victim.  Instead, it's all "it's none of my business."  Even if there's nothing that could have been done, even if you believe that legislation couldn't have helped, I think it's sad that the knee-jerk reaction in the homeschooling community to a child's death is "stay out of my business!"

[Mergath]

When these girls turn 18, they are legally entitled to leave home and go to college if they desire. Maybe they might need remedial classes but then so do a LOT of PS graduates.

 

Yes, it's difficult for those who have grown up within a cult (because frankly, that's what these churches are IMHO) to leave but people manage to do it.

 

That's like saying that it's okay for men to abuse their wives, because the wives can just leave if they don't like it.  It's not that easy.  We need to make sure this kind of thing doesn't happen in the first place.

 

And I really think we're shooting ourselves in the foot every time we use this argument.  "Well, public schools suck at [whatever] so it's okay if homeschoolers fail at it, too."

 

But it's not.  The whole point is that we're supposed to be better.  When proposed laws like this one come up, we won't always be able to use the PS suckage as a shield for our community's failures.

[Korrale]

I have been thinking about this topic all day. And I think I don't really mind that much.

 

I am an Australian and maybe it is the Aussie in me that doesn't see this as such an evil endeavor. I also live in Ohio. And I have friends that work for CPS. And I have friends who have been called on by CPS, for no particular reason other than to investigate a complaint. Basically all parties involved on both sides have told me that is is very difficult to just up and take a child from a home. There would have to be obvious signs of abuse, drugs or child pornography for that to happen. The CPS aren't as Gestapo like as someone above mentioned.

Do I think CPS should be the ones doing a home investigation? No. I think it should be handled by the school district joint with someone who is an advocate for homeschooling. I can certainly see this becoming a mess to implement. But if it is a way that can safe children maybe it is not a bad thing.

And frankly, I have nothing to hide. My son is well fed, well clothed, he needs for nothing. He has a place to do his schooling and access to a plethora or learning resources. If they need to see beyond that then my concerns would be piqued certainly.

[Guest]

I am not a fan and will not be voting in favour of a similar law in my state or making any plans to move to Ohio if it passes there.

 

That said, I already had my public freakout when this was in the news:

 

http://www.sandiegohomeschooling.com/articles/2002/09.shtml

 

and wasted a lot of people's time (including my kids') planning an emergency move to Michigan that never actually needed to happen. I'm still embarassed eleven years later, but I hope admitting my mistake helps someone else put this bill in perspective.

 

If it turns out that I'm underreacting now every bit as much as I overreacted then, I'm sure I'll want/need just as much hand holding and consoling from Aussie friends as everyone else in the US will.

[Farrar]

In this case and in others I've heard about, when an initial red flag was raised at the school, the parents pulled the child and began "homeschooling" and nothing was ever followed up upon because suddenly the child was no longer at the school.  Perhaps if there's allegations of abuse followed by removing a child for homeschooling, a regulation that insists on a CPS visit under those specific circumstances would be helpful and also not be onerous for the vast majority of new homeschoolers.  Honestly, it just seems like that would be common sense.  Of course, it also seems like it would be common sense that the initial allegation be followed up on, but apparently that didn't happen...

[snowbeltmom]

I think the community being legislated should also proactively consider such questions as well.  And that, when possible, a community should look for ways to solve such issues without legislation.

 

It does seem from what little I know about this case that this boy and his family were not really part of the wider homeschooling community and therefore there's probably not much that could be done.  Furthermore, when he was in school, there were signs that were ignored and not followed up on, which should prompt people to look at CPS.  However, when cases like this happen, it prompts many in the larger society to ask questions about safeguards for homeschoolers suffering abuse.  However, it never seems to lead homeschoolers themselves to say, wow, I wonder if there's anything *we* could have done to prevent a child in our community from becoming a victim.  Instead, it's all "it's none of my business."  Even if there's nothing that could have been done, even if you believe that legislation couldn't have helped, I think it's sad that the knee-jerk reaction in the homeschooling community to a child's death is "stay out of my business!"

I agree with the bolded and wonder what steps this boy's father and grandparents took to stop the abuse as well.  (I am not blaming the father at all because I don't know anything about what he did or did not do.  It just seems that if this boy's father could not protect this boy from the abuse, how realistic is it in this case to expect an overwhelmed government agency to have a better outcome?)

 

The "knee-jerk reaction" in the homeschooling community is not in response to a child's death - the reaction is in response to a proposed bill that tramples our parental rights. 

 

I don't know how it is in other parts of the country, but where I live, there is not a wider homeschooling community.  My kids meet other homeschoolers (along with traditionally schooled kids) in extracurricular activities, but homeschooling is not what brings the kids together. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

In this case and in others I've heard about, when an initial red flag was raised at the school, the parents pulled the child and began "homeschooling" and nothing was ever followed up upon because suddenly the child was no longer at the school.  Perhaps if there's allegations of abuse followed by removing a child for homeschooling, a regulation that insists on a CPS visit under those specific circumstances would be helpful and also not be onerous for the vast majority of new homeschoolers.  Honestly, it just seems like that would be common sense.  Of course, it also seems like it would be common sense that the initial allegation be followed up on, but apparently that didn't happen...

I agree.  If there has already been a report of abuse then the authorities should follow up no matter where the child is schooled.  

[Korrale]

In this case and in others I've heard about, when an initial red flag was raised at the school, the parents pulled the child and began "homeschooling" and nothing was ever followed up upon because suddenly the child was no longer at the school. Perhaps if there's allegations of abuse followed by removing a child for homeschooling, a regulation that insists on a CPS visit under those specific circumstances would be helpful and also not be onerous for the vast majority of new homeschoolers. Honestly, it just seems like that would be common sense. Of course, it also seems like it would be common sense that the initial allegation be followed up on, but apparently that didn't happen...

That is it too. Once a case is in the system they shouldn't be dismissing it out of hand. There should be a follow up, even if the allegations are trumped up charges by someone being malicious. My friend was called on recently. They came to her home. Talked to her, her child, and looked around. They agreed that the incident was a non incident. (The child said something silly at school and they found a mark on her behind. It was a birthmark mistaken for a bruise.) Anyway, CPS will stop by her house again in a month only because it is protocol.

I have a friend who is called on a lot because of a custody issue. Now the CPS know her and just stop by and say there were allegations. They no longer even interview her or her child. The case workers know that the allegations untrue. But they are required to follow through.

[Farrar]

I agree with the bolded and wonder what steps this boy's father and grandparents took to stop the abuse as well.  (I am not blaming the father at all because I don't know anything about what he did or did not do.  It just seems that if this boy's father could not protect this boy from the abuse, how realistic is it in this case to expect an overwhelmed government agency to have a better outcome?)

 

The "knee-jerk reaction" in the homeschooling community is not in response to a child's death - the reaction is in response to a proposed bill that tramples our parental rights. 

 

I don't know how it is in other parts of the country, but where I live, there is not a wider homeschooling community.  My kids meet other homeschoolers (along with traditionally schooled kids) in extracurricular activities, but homeschooling is not what brings the kids together. 

 

But I have the impression that there is no reaction in the homeschooling community often - because there's not a sense that it has anything to do with any of us.  Though, again, it doesn't seem like in this case the family was known.  Where I live there definitely is a homeschooling community.  Or a series of many overlapping communities.  It's definitely enough that I feel when I meet other homeschoolers, that we usually have only one degree of separation - oh, you hang out with so and so, or, oh, you go to that co-op or that class and we do this other group with the kids from there - that sort of thing.  Obviously it's not like that everywhere, but it is in many places, I think.

[Crimson Wife]

That's like saying that it's okay for men to abuse their wives, because the wives can just leave if they don't like it.  It's not that easy.  We need to make sure this kind of thing doesn't happen in the first place.

It is not abuse to raise one's daughter for a future life as a homemaker and to discourage her from attending college. It may be lousy parenting to my eyes, but it trivializes ACTUAL abuse to lump in mere lousy parenting with abuse.

[Mergath]

It is not abuse to raise one's daughter for a future life as a homemaker and to discourage her from attending college. It may be lousy parenting to my eyes, but it trivializes ACTUAL abuse to lump in mere lousy parenting with abuse.

 

As someone who has been the victim of ACTUAL abuse, both from a parent and a spouse, I disagree.  Intentionally not educating and brainwashing female children into destroying their own futures in order to stay home and act as indentured servants for the parents is emotional abuse.  And more often than not, these situations seem to include a fair amount of physical abuse, as well.  Spare the rod, and all that.

[snowbeltmom]

But I have the impression that there is no reaction in the homeschooling community often - because there's not a sense that it has anything to do with any of us.  Though, again, it doesn't seem like in this case the family was known.  Where I live there definitely is a homeschooling community.  Or a series of many overlapping communities.  It's definitely enough that I feel when I meet other homeschoolers, that we usually have only one degree of separation - oh, you hang out with so and so, or, oh, you go to that co-op or that class and we do this other group with the kids from there - that sort of thing.  Obviously it's not like that everywhere, but it is in many places, I think.

 

But do you think that the parents that are abusing their kids are involved in any homeschooling community, even if they exist in their area? 

 

If I read a tragic report in the news about a child that has been abused, I don't feel anymore of a reaction/responsibility toward that child if I find out he has been educated at home vs. educated in a traditional school setting.   

 

[Word Nerd]

The desire for privacy isn't about hiding or keeping secrets. Most of those who oppose this bill have nothing to hide either—but that's not the point.

[Crimson Wife]

As someone who has been the victim of ACTUAL abuse, both from a parent and a spouse, I disagree.  Intentionally not educating and brainwashing female children into destroying their own futures in order to stay home and act as indentured servants for the parents is emotional abuse.  And more often than not, these situations seem to include a fair amount of physical abuse, as well.  Spare the rod, and all that.

So every parent who doesn't believe in college is abusing their child? Give me a flippin' break.

[Lisbeth]

What is this community of homeschoolers that I am reading about here? As a homeschooler, it is not my job to police other homeschoolers. Abuse should be investigated by the appropriate authorities when it occurs...it doesn't matter where the child is educated. If I knew of abuse, I would report it, and education method would have nothing to do with anything. If a committee of homeschoolers tried to proactively check in on us as fellow homeschoolers, they would be schooled quite quickly in my notion of boundaries.

How about this...when abuse is reported, CPS actually does something about it?

Typical. Instead of doing their jobs correctly, they want to presume guilt in everyone of a group that is a convenient target.

[littlebug42]

This bill goes far beyond CPS approval for whether or not we can homeschool.  It requires approval.  It requires home visits throughout the year.  It requires behavioral counseling (both group and individual).  It calls for homeschoolers to be required to take classes in parenting and decision making, among other things.  It requires homeschoolers to use the curriculum that their local district tells them to use.  It not only crosses the line, it completely obliterates the line.  You can read the entire bill here:  http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/bills.cfm?ID=130_SB_248

[Mergath]

So every parent who doesn't believe in college is abusing their child? Give me a flippin' break.

 

Yeah, that's exactly what I said.  :001_rolleyes:

[Melissa in Australia]

So every parent who doesn't believe in college is abusing their child? Give me a flippin' break.

 

I personally know some homeschooling families that are members of those religious groups that Mergath was referring to ( At least I Think the same religious groups). these particular families do not believe in giving their daughters education above year 7 level ( which is what we call high school here) . Their argument is that they do not need anything above that to be wives and mothers.

 

I would think that denying your child an education above year 7 is abuse.

[OneStepAtATime]

Although we are sort of getting off-topic, I guess, I do have something I would like to share about cults.  My parents lived next to a very large, very active isolated religious group.  The women and children in that group were not allowed out of the compound and were not given the knowledge or option of higher education (high school not college), or any choice or chance for a different life other than to marry very young (with no choice on who to marry), have lots of kids and work all day cleaning and cooking.  I consider it abusive.  Does this mean that I believe marrying very young, having lots of kids and working all day cleaning and cooking is abusive?  Not inherently, no.  Of course not.  That describes several family members and they are happy.  The difference?  They chose that lifestyle with full knowledge of what their other options might be.  But isolating the child completely from the outside world, never giving the child the training and knowledge and option to make another choice IS abusive.  You end up with a very easily controlled, uneducated, slave labor force.  And frequently "just leaving" means possibly having to abandon your children you started having at 14, possibly being beaten and psychologically tortured or worse if you get caught,. and if you actually get out you are going into an outside world you have no experience with and you have no support and limited education so finding a place to live, getting a job, etc. can be exceedingly difficult.  I consider that abusive.    

 

My best friend growing up was psychologically abused, never physically abused.  She and her siblings carry those invisible scars with them every day and those scars run deep.  Even I went through therapy as an adult to get past all the psychological abuse her dad heaped on her and her siblings.  Abuse can come in many forms, not just physical, sadly.

 

The bottom line is, as human beings, we need to find better ways to stop the cycle of abuse in any form, in any setting, but that is a tall order and I don't have answers.  I don't think ANY homeschooler on this board is uncaring of children who are abused.  They just don't want someone else taking away their ability to take care of their kids in the way they feel is best.  

 

Best wishes to all.  May your children be safe and happy.

[ktgrok]

This is an excellent point that also has not been mentioned in the media.  This boy was not homeschooled.  The general public, including state Senator Cafaro, does not understand the legal distinctions between homeschooling and online public school.

 

Many of us in this thread have mentioned how the government agencies failed this teenager.  Where was this boy's dad and grandparents during his years of abuse?  Did the boy's dad try to get him removed from his mother's home?  If the dad did try to intervene, I have not seen it mentioned in the press. 

 

 

The dad claims the mother kept the boy "isolated from family". He hasn't said she did it legally, with a restraining order, that I've found. And that is the ONLY thing that I could see actually keeping a man from his child. For a man to say, as this one did, that "it was always her way or the highway" as if that excuses not spending time with his son, that's hogwash. You go get your son, you do your visitation, end of story. Had he done that the boy would probably have been able to tell him of the abuse. But no. 

 

He moved to PA, not sure if that was before or after Teddy was killed. If before it is one more way he was not available. And no, I'm not blaming him. The blame rests onthe boyfriend and the mother, but he can't expect the board of education to have more knowledge of his own kid than he did.

[OneStepAtATime]

 

How often do public schools successfully detect abuse AND manage to do something about it (with the help of other agencies)? How often does abuse actually take place in public schools? I have direct experience with these issues, and though my story is only one, I can't be the only one. I was the victim of sexual abuse/rape when I was in school. The perpetrator was my mother's partner and he picked me up from school every day. Teachers were concerned about him. He was an obvious creep. He directed sexual comments to me in front of everyone. One day, I asked my art teacher to tell the perp that I had another class and couldn't leave school. She asked me if I didn't want to go home, and I said no. In short, I told her about the abuse. The teachers discussed it among themselves and concluded I was making the whole thing up. I did not receive any help. 

 

If the premise that public schools pick up abuse is false, this law starts in the wrong place. We should probably be examining exactly how abuse is picked up, and how it should be handled, regardless of where a child is being educated. 

It makes me so incredibly sad and horrified that no one believed you or did anything.  I am so sorry you had to go through that!   I have been thinking about your story for several hours, thinking over an incident from my past.

 

 I used to babysit a little girl that lived nearby (first babysitting job).  I watched her grow up.  When she was in high school, she accused another classmate of sexual assault.  No one, not even her parents, believed her.  When she was home from college one summer, she committed suicide.  Everyone said she was always a little flaky and unstable after it happened.  Really?  I never saw that when she was younger.  Was she really just unstable, or did that assault years before really happen and she just never got over people accusing her of lying (she was suspended from school for a week for fling a false report).  I don't know.  I wasn't there.  But I wonder...

[snowbeltmom]

The dad claims the mother kept the boy "isolated from family". He hasn't said she did it legally, with a restraining order, that I've found. And that is the ONLY thing that I could see actually keeping a man from his child. For a man to say, as this one did, that "it was always her way or the highway" as if that excuses not spending time with his son, that's hogwash. You go get your son, you do your visitation, end of story. Had he done that the boy would probably have been able to tell him of the abuse. But no. 

 

He moved to PA, not sure if that was before or after Teddy was killed. If before it is one more way he was not available. And no, I'm not blaming him. The blame rests onthe boyfriend and the mother, but he can't expect the board of education to have more knowledge of his own kid than he did.

 

:iagree:

A question was posed on the senator's FB page asking some specific's about this boy's case.  The senator said that she didn't know and would need to investigate.  It was pointed out to her that the investigation should have occurred before she drafted the bill. 

 

There have been some posts on FB that the father was not involved in this boy's life at all.  While I have not seen this information mentioned in any official news release, it does make sense.  I just can't imagine that if the father was involved and knew his son was being abused, why he did not demand custody of his son and why the court would not grant it.  Something just is not adding up in this case.

 

Also, Hubbard, OH, where the boy lived and Sharon, PA, where the dad lived, are only minutes apart.

 

 

[at the beach]

In this case and in others I've heard about, when an initial red flag was raised at the school, the parents pulled the child and began "homeschooling" and nothing was ever followed up upon because suddenly the child was no longer at the school.  Perhaps if there's allegations of abuse followed by removing a child for homeschooling, a regulation that insists on a CPS visit under those specific circumstances would be helpful and also not be onerous for the vast majority of new homeschoolers.  Honestly, it just seems like that would be common sense.  Of course, it also seems like it would be common sense that the initial allegation be followed up on, but apparently that didn't happen...

 

If a school makes a referral, a children's services agency is required to investigate that referral within a certain period of time (maybe 24 hours?). Maybe that did not happen in this particular case. If not, someone dropped the ball, that someone probably being the children's services agency. A school is a mandatory reporter. If they are notified a child has been pulled out after they've made a referral, I would think they should be making another referral. Who knows if they did that? What happens when a family relocates--possibly leaving the state? 

 

I know children are vulnerable. They're vulnerable before they are at the compulsory school age. We aren't going to have parents submit to background checks upon the birth of a child, are we? How are we going to address sexual victimization of children or other forms of victimization that don't leave visible marks? Some children belong to communities that follow the Train up a Child mentality. I would think they often have their own schools or could create them. Who's going to check up on them? With regard to the comments about the inappropriateness of female children receiving a limited education, just as an FYI for those who might not know this, the Amish are foster parents, and they adopt female children with the state's blessing. 

 

Homeschooling is allowed only if it is in the child's best interests as determined by an administrative agency?! Ms. Cafaro is seeking attention all right. For herself.

[OneStepAtATime]

I "liked" your post because I appreciate your perception of what might have happened to this girl, when nobody else did. I have struggled with people's reactions as well, especially my own mother's. The abuse and the fact that people refused to believe me led me to make some truly bad choices. I am still angry. I have not forgiven my mother for not believing me and not stopping it, but I am also angry with the school system and the lack of intervention. 

 

After what happened with the art teacher, who notified my mother (but to say I was making up stuff, NOT to report about the abuse), I felt worthless. I did not go to the police because I was sure they would not believe me either. The perp went on to victimize others later on. This was a different time and a different culture, but my experience certainly does not give me confidence that teachers and schools are well-equipped to detect abuse and intervene. 

I wish with all my heart I could do something to help.  My hands are a little shaky just thinking about what you went through.  No one should have to go through that.

 

 I have a picture of me with my neighbor when she was three, and we were standing outside talking about trees.  She was asking a lot of why questions and really curious about the world around her.  She was so happy then....