A "Dear Tibbie" thread -- Abusive Pastor from the Past is in Town

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Hive, this is a "Dear Tibbie" thread. For those who are new here, this is a service I've done for a few people over the past few years. Regular board members sometimes pm me with a thread topic that they wish to post anonymously. Just to be entirely clear, this is not MY post. This is not MY problem. I am posting on behalf of someone else so she can receive the benefit of your wisdom without your knowing her identity. Please address your posts to her, not to me. As the thread progresses I will update with the anonymous person's responses. Thanks a million for any advice for her. ~Tibbie D.

 

"Dear Tibbie,

I had a phone conversation with my mother this last month that left me a little.......well.........unsure of how I should feel.

The back story is that I spent two years in my late teens being sexually abused by a pastor who was on staff at our small church. I tried to clue my mother in to what was going on, but she was very focused on keeping the status quo. (My dad was a barely functional alcoholic and mom spent an unbelievable amount of energy keeping that secret and pretending our family was *fine*) The few times I tried to bring it up she advised me not to ruin the pastor's career over a misunderstanding.

I left for college, he and his family moved back to the state they were from, and my family eventually moved to another church in the same town. 15 years have passed since I last heard from him.

So fast-forward to this past month, my mom calls me to tell me he and his family are in town, a group of people from the old church are getting together to eat with them, and I am invited. She laughs and asks me if I want to go. (Not in a serious way, but not like it was an absurd question either.)

I am glad she told me because it would have been very upsetting to round a corner and run into him. But I feel weird about the way the conversation took place. I am trying to frame it as her not knowing how to tell me/not wanting to upset me but a part of me feels like this is another example of my feelings and experiences being minimized. (DH seems to think it is the latter, but as he rarely feels inclined to give my family the benefit of the doubt............)

Please help me figure out how to interpret this; my Pollyanna app seems to be broken.

Thanks in advance

-Burdened by the Past"

[Jean in Newcastle]

My take is that she wanted to let you know so that there would be no surprises.  I think that she was careful to ask the question of whether you wanted to go so as to acknowledge that as an adult it is totally up to you.  I think she acknowledged that it probably was a "no" answer at the same time.  I wouldn't think you were being  minimized on that conversation alone.  

[Mrs Mungo]

I find asking if you wanted to go a little minimizing. "Hey, some people are having dinner with your rapist, want to go?" Is not a question most people would ask.

 

I will say that people who are used to being in denial are *good* at denial. I often think that they genuinely do not remember certain things. If she is one of those, then I would find it less surprising.

 

I am sorry you are going through this. That really sucks that your parents didn't stand up for you.

[8circles]

I find asking if you wanted to go a little minimizing. "Hey, some people are having dinner with your rapist, want to go?" Is not a question most people would ask.

 

I will say that people who are used to being in denial are *good* at denial. I often think that they genuinely do not remember certain things. If she is one of those, then I would find it less surprising.

 

I am sorry you are going through this. That really sucks that your parents didn't stand up for you.

Yes, this. She sounds like she's in denial and that's how she copes. She is minimizing but I would think it's for selfish reasons rather than trying to hurt you. In your shoes I would be very hurt but I don't think there would be any point in addressing it. My mother is the same way & confronting her denial has been pointless and has made our relationship worse.

[LucyStoner]

I think that the poster needs to take care of herself and be extra gentle to herself.  Lean on your spouse and any trusted friends. It is natural for this sort of thing to resurface a lot of old hurt and pain and it speaks right to the main pain that many victims of childhood sexual abuse experience- that of not being believed or protected by those who were supposed to protect us.  It is ok to be angry at your mom about this.  It is ok to tell her why.  

 

Even if the issues of being abused have seemed long resolved, seeing a therapist few times to talk about it now when he is back in town and your mom is minimizing your past trauma after dismissing it at the time.  Make a list of things you love to do and do them.  All of them.  Treat yourself very well right now.  

 

[HS Mom in NC]

I think a mother NOT trying to minimize the situation would say something in a serious tone like, "Former church members are getting together and ___________________ will be there. I wanted to warn you in case someone who didn't know about his past behavior invited you to join them."

 

Your mother sounds like she has a long history of not handling things with any sort of maturity or conviction and it sounds like she hasn't really changed.

 

Churches should WANT to know if any sexual abuse, physical abuse or emotional abuse is going on with staff.

 

I've been at two churches where there was sexual misconduct with staff.  The music minister was immediately fired for his adultery (with a consenting adult woman.) The secretary who was committing adultery (with a consenting adult man) was immediately fired. 

Another church a friend went to had a youth minister who was a porn addict and newly married to the Sr. Pastor's daughter.  He accidentally sent porn to all the families on the youth group list.  He was immediately fired.

 

 

At another church I used to go to there was an adult male pedophile who started attending services with his mother with the knowledge of the staff.   He was not allowed anywhere but in the sanctuary during the services-not even the restroom.  He had to arrive just before it started and leave just after it ended so the elders could keep an eye on him.  All the parents were told at a meeting what was going on and they were showed his picture before he attended for the first time.  If he ever violated the conditions he would be told to leave and not come back. Yes, he needs Jesus too, but it has to be done in a way that protects the children.

[Cindyg]

I think it sounds like she threw it out there to give you an opportunity to respond. In other words, if you say, "Sure. I can come," she can think, "Oh good. I guess I dreamed up all that other stuff." And if you respond, "You can't be serious!" she can think, "On no. That really did happen. Oh no."

 

Is your mom able to cope with this situation yet? Is it possible she wants to know?

 

Are you ready to "ruin that pastor's career" yet? Were you a minor when this happened? Many states have no statute of limitations if the victim was a minor.

 

I'd love to hear how this turns out.

 

There's a huge movement right now to mop up these old abusers who were previously swept under the carpet. Quite a few of them have already moved from the pulpit to the prison.

 

Have you googled him? Try googling "survivors of" and fill in the name of the church you attended then, the name of the Christian school if there was one, and the name of the college he graduated from, assuming he has a theology degree. Also google "Do Right" and the same endings.

 

You may find that you are one of many.

 

I'd love to hear how this turns out.

[Impish]

Yeah, I'm on Team Dh for this one.

 

There's no way suggesting getting together for dinner w/someone that assaulted you is in the realm of acceptable. Nope, nope, nope.

[Rosie_0801]

I'd go with self protecting denial too.

 

Which sucks big time.

 

((lots of chickflicks, chocolate mousse and trifle with no fruit))

[Twigs]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[Anne in CA]

Unless you dh is a really big jerk, you should listen to him. If he does not feel your family has your back, and to be fair it does not sound like they do to me, why not believe him? My mom was/ is a minimizer of things that happen to me, but nothing like that happened. It doesn't stop my feelings from getting hurt sometimes. If you run into him, by all means do not bother to make polite conversation. His behavior is his problem. It makes me nuts when people get away with stuff like this because other people give in to the temptation to make things easy and pleasant. I certainly would not lie about the past to make your mother or this loser comfortable. Someone tried to do something really awful to my son last year. I had little proof that would work in a court of law. It makes me MAD to see the creep strutting around town pretending to be a good person. I worry about the boys he got away with hurting, and the boys he will get away with. He is SLICK. I have never been lied to as skillfully as I was lied to by that horrible man. Some people have careers where they get access to young people to hurt. A couple of people have asked me why I do not have anything good to say about this person and I have told them the truth. They clearly do not believe me. I do get how you feel to have this creep in town. Lots of people believe lies easier than they believe the truth. Lies are well thought out and sound good. The truth is often more messy and told by people who are not as well spoken.

[cuckoomamma]

I think your mom knows that she handled it poorly when you were young and feels awkward.  However, rather than admit that to you and ask for your understanding, she's just making a mess with the current situation.  My mom is very similar.  I've found it best to very clearly say, "that's an incredibly inappropriate way to let me know that the man who sexually abused me is around.  Thank you for letting me know, but next time I would appreciate if you say, 'Honey, you may not want to socialize with the Smith and Jones families this week as X is in town and staying with them'".

 

I find my mom to be like a young child who makes a mistake and then just keeps making it worse and worse and worse...

 

The key is to say whatever you have to say firmly and succinctly and then move on or get off the phone.  After you hang up, go have a good cry.

[Ann.without.an.e]

Have you thought about using this opportunity to report him to the police? Abusers have a nasty tendency to abuse many, many victims before they are caught, if they are ever caught. He is almost certainly victimizing someone right now. You'd obviously have to check how the law works, in your jurisdiction — I guess you could just give the local police dept a call to ask. 

 

 

 

i wonder about this too?  There is a situation with a coach in our area.  It only took one person to stand up and others got brave enough to come forward and testify too?  Maybe you don't feel that is a road you can go down?  

 

It is a difficult situation.  I don't see how your mom could be taking it seriously if she approached you that way.  It isn't a laughing matter :(

[Melissa in Australia]

I agree with others that it is  time to go to the police. quite often there are other victims that feel they are the only ones as well.  

 

 As for the mother. If it was my mother I would tell her off. :boxing_smiley:

[bettyandbob]

Many state do not have a statute of limitations on sexual assault of a minor. Reporting this could be a very difficult experience, but it could also help you long term. Plus, haven't you wondered whether you were the only one?

 

You say you dh does not give your family the benefit of the doubt. I think your dh is spot on here. I wonder if your family does other things that suggest they SHOULD NOT get the benefit of the doubt and you just don't want to connect the dots. It stinks, because no one wants to admit their own family is questionable.

[Ravin]

I think the anonymous poster has gotten some very good advice, both about dealing with her mother and possibly coming forward. I would consider doing so in the church community, even if not through official legal channels. People should know the guy is bad news and has no business as a pastor or working with youth.

 

To the mom of the boy who thinks she lacks proof to go after her son's attacker with the law, you might want to talk to an attorney familiar with this type of case. The standards of evidence for this sort of thing are heavily modified from those for other crimes in some states in order to bolster the percieved veracity of young victims.

[PrincessMommy]

I'm with others and would lean on your husband.   How do you feel about reporting him?  I would talk with a counselor and a lawyer.  :grouphug:   I can't imagine how difficult this must be for you.

[Kathryn]

I'm with your husband as well. :grouphug:

 

Last month, we were eating in a restaurant when my husband suddenly got very tense. After a few moments, he whispered to me that the man that had r@ped me as a teenager just sat down right behind me. He said he wasn't sure if he should tell me, but thought I needed to know. He then asked if I'd like to leave immediately. I'm very grateful for the way he handled that. I can't imagine how hurt I'd have been if he made some sort of nervous joke that I probably didn't want to ask him to join us.

[Lisbeth]

I agree with others that it is time to go to the police. quite often there are other victims that feel they are the only ones as well.

 

As for the mother. If it was my mother I would tell her off. :boxing_smiley:

Police, and mom would be dead to me. Possibly after I told the police that I tried to tell her and she wouldn't help me. She is having dinner with this predator? Wow.

[FaithManor]

Police, and mom would be dead to me. Possibly after I told the police that I tried to tell her and she wouldn't help me. She is having dinner with this predator? Wow.

 

Absolutely this. I'd try to go after the scum in criminal court, if no redress there, civil court, and no matter what the outcome, mom would not be in my life...zero contact, and if necessary, a restraining order if she harassed me to maintain contact.

 

OP, your mom is not a person you need in your life because you need to be able to heal and move on; she will not be helpful to this process.

 

Faith

[Harriet Vane]

Minimizing and selfish denial. I doubt she fully remembers much, and what she does remember she has rationalized.

 

I think you should tell your mother in no uncertain terms that it is incredibly inappropriate and offensive for her to dine with or party with the man who assaulted you. (Whether or not there was actual penetration is immaterial--he perpetrated s@xual acts on a minor.) Do not allow her to continue minimizing. Or if you have a hard time doing so ( :grouphug: ) then perhaps your dh can tell your mother.

 

Why? Because for you, the truth will set you free. Minimizing and hiding and rationalizing are chains that continue to hurt.

 

Because it is unhealthy for your mother (or anyone else) to choose to alter the truth in their own mind. This behavior should be (simply, briefly) corrected each and every time it occurs.

 

Because it is likely (almost certain) that this awful man has hurt and is hurting others. Secrecy allows him to continue hurting vulnerable young girls. Aside from the facts of your mother's appalling behavior, you should pray about and consider carefully bringing the truth to light so that other young girls do not suffer.

[Cinder]

I have no advice. Just reading your story makes me feel like throwing up--sick and angry over a horrible situation.

 

I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this. Gah--my smilies aren't working and I wanted to give  you some hugs so----> ((((hugs))))

[Tammyla]

Well, I would be upset to say the least.  Is your mother going to have a meal with the man who abused you?  That's disgusting imo.  Sick, mean and what the heck...mom? 

 

If I've misunderstood and she isn't going, but just wanted to let you know... I'd think her laughing was inappropriate to the situation, but it could have been nervous laughter and I'd try to excuse it.

 

I'm now going to read the other responses, but I wanted to get my opinion down before reading them.  (Some of my dearest friends and a family member were abused when I was growing up, and I'd like to drive a stake in the heart of the abusers for the damage they've done.)

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Update from "Burdened by the Past"

 

"Thank you all for your thoughts, hugs, and support. The visit was very unexpected and has left me a little off my game. I wanted to clarify a few things as well.

Several of you have suggested litigation, but that really is not an option. When I was first dealing with the aftermath of all this DH insisted I receive counseling, (which I did), and the possibility of pursuing the matter legally was explored during that time. As wrong as it seems, my age during the abuse would be a factor. The former pastor has me over a barrel, and always has, because he knows that I was abused physically, emotionally, and sexually before he arrived on staff by an older member of the youth group. The pastor's abuse only began after he gained my confidence and I confided in him about the earlier abuse. He was the only adult I told, (until after I was married), and he welded the knowledge like a weapon. It is easier to believe the story of a " pillar of the community" than it is to believe a girl who has claimed rape once already. Since he left the ministry after leaving our church there was not even a church discipline route to take.

To the question of if my DH is a jerk........absolutely not. He is the one person I have been able to count on. He is a really wonderful man who has walked a hard path with me as I have healed. He is also a man who resents the way my family has treated me and does not feel inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt when an action/comment can be interpreted more than one way. So, while I trust him and his judgement, it is helpful to hear the thoughts of those not emotionally invested in the situation.

 

Also -- As far as I know my mother was not planning to, nor did she attend the dinner.

Thank you again.

Burdened"

 

 

[Ravin]

Even if you were a legal adult, his actions aren't in any way justified. Past abuse made you more vulnerable and what he did more reprehensible, it doesn't decrease your veracity. It might affect statute of limitations, though.

 

I'm glad to hear you've been through counseling and have good support from your DH. I would keep him on your radar; even if you can't call him out yourself, if someone else does you could come forward. You may be able to contribute to a future prosecution, or help another victim.

 

I'm on my phone, or I'd throw in hugs here!

[Catwoman]

I just wanted to post to thank Tibbie for being kind enough to post this topic for a forum member who wishes to remain anonymous. I think it was a very kind and sweet thing to do, and I can certainly understand why someone would want to keep this private, yet would still want input about it from others.

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: to the "real" OP in this thread, and I hope the invitation didn't dredge up too many awful memories for you. 

[Melissa in Australia]

:iagree:

I just wanted to post to thank Tibbie for being kind enough to post this topic for a forum member who wishes to remain anonymous. I think it was a very kind and sweet thing to do, and I can certainly understand why someone would want to keep this private, yet would still want input about it from others.

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: to the "real" OP in this thread, and I hope the invitation didn't dredge up too many awful memories for you. 

:iagree:

[Juniper]

(((((((hugs)))))) I have been mulling and trying to find some words of wisdom, since I have been in a very similar situation, but I am just not sure I have them. I know that I have spent a long time being angry and sometimes I just don't want to be mad anymore. Not sure if that makes sense. If you are already a bit distant with your mother, I would just let it go. She sounds very awkward with the whole situation.

 

Do everything you can to continue your own healing. Enjoy your dh and children and the life you are building. Take pleasure in the now and try not to give this man any more of your "present." I know it is hard. Yesterday, dh and I were walking in our tiny town and a tourist drove by in the same car my former Sr. Pastor drove. I looked at dh and with a big grin said, "Holy Trigger Warning Approaching!" He saw the car and laughed with me saying, "Your not kidding."  Again, I don't know when I began to be able to laugh at the painful consequences, but somewhere along the way it happened. I guess it was when I found a way to REALLY pity the man who did this. Yes, it angers me that he was and potentially is able to continue these types of behaviors, but even then he IS pitiful.

[OrganicAnn]

So the dinner is over?   Is this just about your relationship with your mom?    That's sure is tough.   I can't imagine what you do about your relationship.   I would go again to some sort of counseling to figure it out.   

 

I think it would very difficult, but I would hope that if I were in a similar situation I would try to find a way to file a police complaint.   I would try to do it knowing that it may be past the statute of limitations and that the police wouldn't actually act on it.   I would do whatever I could so that if someone else had been abused or was being abused that there was some information out there to let the police or anyone investigating know that there were more victims.  I wouldn't do it for myself, I would do it for others.