Catholics and NFP--really struggling

[Moxie]

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies.

[Caitilin]

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

[JumpyTheFrog]

Well, my prediction is that the Catholics on this board who agree with the Catholic Church about this will tell you to stick with NFP. They will talk about sacrifice (either in spacing the kids or going ahead and having them despire financial difficulties).

 

Those of us (Catholic or not) who have no problems with barrier methods will be sitting wondering if telling you to try them is worth the debate from others who might think we are trying to derail your faith.

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

I have a very difficult cycle (PCOS) for NFP, so I do feel your pain.

 

A few things...

 

All other Christian religions were also against birth control up until very recently (1950s?). They then bowed to secular culture (IMO!).

 

Catholics do not believe that every little sperm is important. That is the quiverfull mentality, I believe, and is not part of Catholic doctrine. What Catholics believe is that the unitive and procreative aspects of s_x cannot be separated. Catholics believe that using a woman's natural fertility rhythm to space or prevent pregnancies is a gift God gives us. I know how frustrating that can sound when your cycle is wacky!

 

A wacky cycle is a sign of physical evil (i.e. illness) that you can attempt to treat various ways. The PPVI institute has a bunch of options to try to get you back on track.

 

The Catholic Church cannot change her position on this. It is doctrine. It is not going to bow to popular demand. We're not Catholic because it's easy, we're Catholic because we believe Catholicism is True, Beautiful, and Good, even when it is HARD.

 

I hope you are able to find an NFP system that works for you!!!

[I.Dup.]

I don't know what to tell you. I'm a new Catholic and don't have a problem accepting the Church's teaching on contraception. I do hate NFP, though.

 

It looks like you have a newborn? Do you ever have awhile before you get your period back? I go about a year after birth with no period, so that makes things easier to accept.

 

I know this is our journey to walk individually, as Catholic women. I am greatly inspired by the devout Catholic women I know who accept each child. I know how hard it is "just" to have 6, going on 7. I cannot imagine how hard it is for them to have 10+, and yet they never complain and continue being blessed by accepting their children.

 

I don't know. I think this is something we just have to wrestle with.

 

Did I mention I hate NFP?

[Guest inoubliable]

:grouphug:

[Moxie]

I feel like my choices are

-be frustrated and worried for the next 10-15 years or

-do something that I have been taught is a mortal sin all my life.

Neither is a good way to live.

[PeterPan]

I'm not Catholic, but I will say I have Evangelical friends (who are morally opposed to birth control and don't feel NFP is natural) who are in the same position. And you know, when I listen to them complain about that next baby they're going to have and how hard it is to be so overloaded with kids and homeschooling and out of money, I just think back to what a wise Russian girl told me once, that life is HARD. The naive view is to think it's going to be easy and that we're doing something wrong if it's not. I think there are just stages of life that are HARD. Not much is permanent, and I would think long-term about where you want to be 20 years from now, when your kids are gone. Will you be having the family dinners you want? Will you have lived your dream?

[fairfarmhand]

I'm not Catholic and I have no words of wisdom for you.

 

But I just thought you could use some hugs.

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

[Mabeline]

I don't have any advice. I just want to give you a hug.

[HRAAB]

I feel like my choices are

-be frustrated and worried for the next 10-15 years or

-do something that I have been taught is a mortal sin all my life.

Neither is a good way to live.

 

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: No, neither is a good way to live. I sympathize. This is something you and your dh - alone - need to come to an agreement on. One that you are both comfortable with and can live with. I understand wanting advice and help, but ultimately this is something very personal to you and your dh.

 

I've been there. :grouphug: :grouphug:

[gardenmom5]

:grouphug:

Have you ever talked with a naturopath who understands methylation (it's cutting edge, so there aren't many who are familiar) about the status of your methylation cycle, and how that might affect your hormone levels? perchance helping to regulate them so they are easier to deal with? :grouphug:

[8circles]

I understand your pain and frustration. Many hugs.

[Soror]

I'm not Catholic, but I will say I have Evangelical friends (who are morally opposed to birth control and don't feel NFP is natural) who are in the same position. And you know, when I listen to them complain about that next baby they're going to have and how hard it is to be so overloaded with kids and homeschooling and out of money, I just think back to what a wise Russian girl told me once, that life is HARD. The naive view is to think it's going to be easy and that we're doing something wrong if it's not. I think there are just stages of life that are HARD. Not much is permanent, and I would think long-term about where you want to be 20 years from now, when your kids are gone. Will you be having the family dinners you want? Will you have lived your dream?

 

I don't think anyone is expecting a cakewalk but sometimes you get to the point you think you are going crazy. The problem is as well whenever some put extra restrictions above and beyond even the Church's teaching, essentially portraying the Church's view as quiverful and anyone who lives to less than that to be living in sin.

 

I really feel great empathy for the OP, and wish I had some wisdom here. I have a 6mo as well and currently feel at my own (and dh's ) capacity in every way. Not that I know or think that is how I will permanently feel but I very much feel that way right now. I am glad for the church's guidance in that it keeps me from making permanent decisions which would likely not be prudent as my hormones aren't all that regulated right now. We just keep going forward one day at a time. I'm not fertile right now though so my thoughts about this right now are a bit of an aside. I do get so tired of the question if I'm going to have more when right now when my own thoughts feel so heavy right now.

[UrbanSue]

If I'm reading you correctly, you are feeling like you have plenty of good reasons to avoid/delay the next pregnancy but you feel that, in your case, NFP is a bigger than normal burden due to hormone irregularity. Is that correct?

 

Only you and dh can decide when to have another baby. I would never question another couple's judgment there. Some women can have ten babies spaced 11 months apart and be happy, healthy, functioning people. But I don't believe all families are called to that. We're called to be generous and to sacrifice but for some women that is met well short of the 10-kid mark. So on the question of whether/when to have another baby I would encourage you to keep it in prayer, keep it in communication with dh, maybe find a good friend who gets it who you can hash things out with. But, ultimately, we can never judge another couple's decisions in this area.

 

As to how NFP works for you . . . could you look into better hormone balancing? I'm definitely not an expert in this area but, while NFP is hard, it shouldn't have to be THAT hard, you know? I just wonder if a good doctor/naturopath/NFP expert could give you some insight. Do you know about the work at the Pope Paul VI Institute in Omaha? They mostly deal with infertility but a phone call there might point you in the right direction.

 

I don't mean to make any of this sound simple or easy. This is a difficult issue for Catholics. Most of the rest of the world doesn't get it and most Catholics are either judgmental or don't want to talk about it. Tough place to be.

[J-rap]

I'm not sure what you want to hear, and I'm not Catholic either. However, I'm a Christian, and we did practice the NFP method for about two years after we were married. My husband was Catholic and this was important to him. We were very strict about it. I really didn't think the methods were too difficult to follow, and if your periods are very regular, I think it can be a very good system. But my periods were very irregular, sometimes only once/year.

 

The lack of intimacy can wreak a little havoc on a young marriage! I sought several doctors, sought help with the NFP organization, and was put on many different hormones to jumpstart more regular periods, but nothing worked.

 

I do not believe God is about black and white. I do believe He takes all things (such as our varied circumstances) into consideration. I believe His greatest gift is love, not discipline.

 

But, this is maybe not the type of answer you were looking for.

[VeritasMama]

I know exactly how you feel. :grouphug:

 

We have not always used NFP, we have used barrier methods in the past, I am ashamed to admit. When we were not following church teachings, our marriage suffered. We were in a much worse position then, and the stress of using NFP has not caused damage to our relationship the way the contraceptive attitude towards each other's sexuality did.

 

All Christian denominations, conservative or not, forbade artificial birth control until the 1930's, when the Anglican Church decided to allow the barrier method in situations where there were grave reasons for parents to avoid pregnancy. It was not a "conservative vs. liberal" issue until then. The change corresponded to the rise of Planned Parenthood and other groups advocating contraception, it was a doctrinal shift in response to a cultural shift. Of course, Catholic doctrine will never bend to popular culture, no matter how many Catholics decide to ignore the official doctrine.

 

I don't think barrier methods will give you the peace you are looking for. I think that prayer and the sacraments, along with using NFP and putting it in God's hands will will lead you to peace, even if it is found in the next world. Of course, non-Catholics, even some liberal Catholics won't agree with me. They simply don't have the same worldview when it comes to personal sacrifice and eternity.

[I.Dup.]

And to be fair, as much as I dislike NFP, I hate all the other contraceptive methods more, so I do see the wisdom in the Church. I looked into every available method before we converted, after my fifth was born. I hated every, single one of them.

 

This is just a difficult issue.

[milovany]

~Every other conservative religion (that I can find, please let me know if I'm wrong), religions I really respect, recognizes the need for some couples to use a barrier method at times. It bugs me that Catholics are the only one that have come to the conclusion that every little sperm is sacred.

 

 

Solely addressing this part, and only because you asked for correction. Our Orthodox priest asked us to not use birth control and said it was the traditional stance of the Orthodox Church (although priests today will privately counsel with couples on this issue and may give different advice). It's not dogmatized like in the Catholic church, but the general, traditional stance is to not use birth control.

[Moxie]

Solely addressing this part, and only because you asked for correction. Our Orthodox priest asked us to not use birth control and said it was the traditional stance of the Orthodox Church (although priests today will privately counsel with couples on this issue and may give different advice). It's not dogmatized like in the Catholic church, but the general, traditional stance is to not use birth control.

 

 

This is a huge difference!! As someone said earlier, the Catholic church is black and white on this issue. It is forbidden in all cases, everywhere, no matter what. There is a difference between being asked to not use birth control and being taught that you will be damned to Hell if you do. I'm really stuggling with that.

[Catwoman]

If anyone is telling you that you will be "damned to hell" if you use birth control, I think that is absolutely horrible.

 

I think it's wonderful that you are strong in your faith, but I don't think anyone should live in fear that breaking a church rule is going to automatically get them a one way ticket to hell.

 

You guys must be really, really, really strict Catholics. I don't know a single person IRL who believes things like that, and I have never heard a priest take a fire-&-brimstone stance, so this stuff always surprises me.

 

I'm sorry you're struggling. It must be awful for you. :grouphug:

[catz]

I was raised Catholic. My in-laws, parents, and grandparents are or were when they were living were practicing Catholics. And my mother, my MIL, and both my grandmothers all struggled with this and ended up using barrier methods at some point in their lives and found peace with it, based on many reasons. They have 2, 3, and 4 children. None have any regrets. My mother and MIL are still strong practicing Catholics. There are many people who attend a church who might have beliefs that don't align perfectly.

 

I visited an orphanage a couple weeks ago that was in operation until the 40's. A man spoke who is now in his late 70s. He was raised in the orphanage from age 5 to age 16. He had 9 siblings and his family was Catholic. His father ended up in prison and his mom ended up with mental illness and TB in a sanatorium, and ended up dying there alone. He said how common it was in those days for families to get overwhelmed and drop their kids off at the orphanage, for mothers to be completely overwhelmed, have untreated mental illness, etc. This man struggled with addiction and mental illness throughout adulthood. But he actually turned out better than many of the kids that came out that orphanage. I know this is not a common scenario now, but I do think it is possible for families to reach a breaking point of some kind. I can't imagine this is the kind of thing the church had in mind.

 

I am far from thinking life should be easy. But I'm also of the mindset that are first obligations are to our spouses, existing families, and our own health and well being (because if momma's not happy, no one is happy). I am no longer Catholic for the record. I have no problem with families having as large a family as they can handle mentally, physically, emotionally, and financially.

 

Whatever you decide, I wish you peace with your decision. :grouphug:

[milovany]

This is a huge difference!! As someone said earlier, the Catholic church is black and white on this issue. It is forbidden in all cases, everywhere, no matter what. There is a difference between being asked to not use birth control and being taught that you will be damned to Hell if you do. I'm really stuggling with that.

 

I would struggle with that, too. In stating my next statement, I'm not comparing because I've never been Catholic, but I really appreciate the conciliar nature of the Orthodox church in things like this. "Talk to your priest" is a common refrain for many matters. You'd think things would be crazy divided after all these years, with that plan of action, but that's not been the case because the bishops and priests base their advice on Holy Tradition (Scripture, the writings of the church fathers, practice, etc.) which doesn't change.

[Moxie]

If anyone is telling you that you will be "damned to hell" if you use birth control, I think that is absolutely horrible.

 

I think it's wonderful that you are strong in your faith, but I don't think anyone should live in fear that breaking a church rule is going to automatically get them a one way ticket to hell.

 

You guys must be really, really, really strict Catholics. I don't know a single person IRL who believes things like that, and I have never heard a priest take a fire-&-brimstone stance, so this stuff always surprises me.

 

I'm sorry you're struggling. It must be awful for you. :grouphug:

 

I believe that the official position of the Church is that contraception is a mortal sin.

[Moxie]

If anyone is telling you that you will be "damned to hell" if you use birth control, I think that is absolutely horrible.

 

I think it's wonderful that you are strong in your faith, but I don't think anyone should live in fear that breaking a church rule is going to automatically get them a one way ticket to hell.

 

You guys must be really, really, really strict Catholics. I don't know a single person IRL who believes things like that, and I have never heard a priest take a fire-&-brimstone stance, so this stuff always surprises me.

 

I'm sorry you're struggling. It must be awful for you. :grouphug:

 

I believe that the official position of the Church is that contraception is a mortal sin.

[stripe]

This is a huge difference!! As someone said earlier, the Catholic church is black and white on this issue. It is forbidden in all cases, everywhere, no matter what.

I am only somewhat familiar with the Catholic position, but does this include cases where the mother has been advised not to carry more children?

 

I am sorry this is causing you so much distress, Moxie. I can't advise you about it, but I do personally feel in my own life a lot of strain of trying to do it all as a nuclear family. I am thinking for myself that what I really need is help, and an extended family. Something about our modern American lives just seems too hard on mothers.

[VeritasMama]

Yes, it is a mortal sin. There are mortal sins and venial sins.

 

Things are not as black and white as people seem to think. You can use birth control to avoid pregnancy, but it must not interfere with your natural fertility. You can not sterlize yourself, and you can not use abortificatients. One of the reasons the use of hormonal birth control is condemned is because it does not prevent conception, you can still ovulate and the egg can still be fertilized, it just makes it difficult for the fertilized egg to become implanted in the uterus and so instead it is flushed out with your next period. For Catholics, life begins at conception, the cells begin to divide and grow before implantation occurs and the unique DNA has already formed. Whether you agree or not, that is the stance. It is also why the Catholic church is fighting so hard against the HHS mandate that will require Catholic schools and hospitals to provide abortificatients to their employees.

 

I don't like the idea of a creator who simply lets us do whatever we want with no consequences, too many people get hurt. And, if good and evil do exist, it would be cruel for God not to give us a clear cut definition of what each is, even if it depends upon the circumstances those circumstances need to be well defined. Deciphering right from wrong and the good from the bad is the basis for philosophy. The Catholic worldview is based on compassion, a God who wants us to have the best in life based on what is good, not on what we want, because that is what is best for us. This is not based on fire and brimstone, but love. You may not agree, but that is the official stance of the Church.

[VeritasMama]

I am only somewhat familiar with the Catholic position, but does this include cases where the mother has been advised not to carry more children?

 

I am sorry this is causing you so much distress, Moxie. I can't advise you about it, but I do personally feel in my own life a lot of strain of trying to do it all as a nuclear family. I am thinking for myself that what I really need is help, and an extended family. Something about our modern American lives just seems too hard on mothers.

 

 

Catholics are allowed to use NFP and other abstinence based methods in order to avoid pregnancy. Sterilization and barrier methods are not permitted, though most of the Catholics I know break the rules, and even some priests teach against the official doctrine.

 

If you have a medical procedure to treat a medical condition that results in a loss of fertility, this is not a sin. For example, the removal of an ovary and fallopian tupe due an ectopic pregnancy, or a hysterectomy for medical reasons. Tubal ligations and vasectomies are not allowed, it is the deliberate sterilization (and in the Catholic view mutilation) of your body for the purpose of contraception. The loss of fertility must be a secondary result of the treatment of another condition for it to be moral.

 

Much work has been done to study natural fertility in order to be able to treat problems and avoid pregnancy without the use of artificial hormones or other bodily system altering methods. For most, these are quite effective. For some, it is more difficult to monitor their fertility, and so these natural methods are very trying and can be a hardship.

 

According to the Catholic worldview, suffering and hardships are a part of life, they can not be avoided completely, and so we should strive to use them as opportunities to grow and mature, in other words become more holy. This is much more easily said than done, obviously, and I'm afraid this line of thinking makes many think the church is insensitive. However, this approach to suffering has, according to the Catholic worldview, eternal bliss in heaven as it's reward. The church simply wants to help people get to heaven.

 

Of course, non-Catholics don't see the world this way. I'm not trying to argue, the point, just help people see that the Church's position on suffering does not come from a hardened heart or lack of love, or a naivete about how hard life can be.

 

http://www.naprotechnology.com/

[fairfarmhand]

(I'm not Catholic, so I don't know how helpful this will be)

WRT to the strain on the marriage and relationship....

 

Would it help to consider that Jesus was a human man....and celibate? He knows how hard that is.

 

Also, in reading the Old Testament laws, God wanted men and women to learn to govern their passions. (times of cleanness when relations were permissible, and uncleanness when they were forbidden) Perhaps the struggle is designed to teach us to depend more fully on Him.

 

I sometimes look at trials that really stretch me as something that God will use to make me more like Jesus. I need to lean into Him when I am struggling. So while the trouble is HARD, I can rejoice in it, knowing that I'm growing closer to God during the difficulty.

 

If any of this is out of line, I apologize.

[abacus2]

((hugs)) I am sorry you are struggling. This is such a difficult issue for couples generally, but strong religious teaching added into the mix adds to the difficulty.

 

I am not Catholic, but as I have learned more about Catholicism in recent years I have come to see the reasons behind many of their teachings. This is one area that still does not make sense to me doctrinally either. It seems to me that the "oneness" aspect of marriage would lead Christians to value the sexual relationship within marriage without tying it exclusively to the idea of child-bearing. I wish you peace and wisdom as you struggle with this.

[Moxie]

 

 

Catholics are allowed to use NFP and other abstinence based methods in order to avoid pregnancy. Sterilization and barrier methods are not permitted, though most of the Catholics I know break the rules, and even some priests teach against the official doctrine.

 

If you have a medical procedure to treat a medical condition that results in a loss of fertility, this is not a sin. For example, the removal of an ovary and fallopian tupe due an ectopic pregnancy, or a hysterectomy for medical reasons. Tubal ligations and vasectomies are not allowed, it is the deliberate sterilization (and in the Catholic view mutilation) of your body for the purpose of contraception. The loss of fertility must be a secondary result of the treatment of another condition for it to be moral.

 

Much work has been done to study natural fertility in order to be able to treat problems and avoid pregnancy without the use of artificial hormones or other bodily system altering methods. For most, these are quite effective. For some, it is more difficult to monitor their fertility, and so these natural methods are very trying and can be a hardship.

 

According to the Catholic worldview, suffering and hardships are a part of life, they can not be avoided completely, and so we should strive to use them as opportunities to grow and mature, in other words become more holy. This is much more easily said than done, obviously, and I'm afraid this line of thinking makes many think the church is insensitive. However, this approach to suffering has, according to the Catholic worldview, eternal bliss in heaven as it's reward. The church simply wants to help people get to heaven.

 

Of course, non-Catholics don't see the world this way. I'm not trying to argue, the point, just help people see that the Church's position on suffering does not come from a hardened heart or lack of love, or a naivete about how hard life can be.

 

http://www.naprotechnology.com/

 

 

Yes, Catholics sure are fun at parties!!!

 

[Moxie]

 

 

Catholics are allowed to use NFP and other abstinence based methods in order to avoid pregnancy. Sterilization and barrier methods are not permitted, though most of the Catholics I know break the rules, and even some priests teach against the official doctrine.

 

If you have a medical procedure to treat a medical condition that results in a loss of fertility, this is not a sin. For example, the removal of an ovary and fallopian tupe due an ectopic pregnancy, or a hysterectomy for medical reasons. Tubal ligations and vasectomies are not allowed, it is the deliberate sterilization (and in the Catholic view mutilation) of your body for the purpose of contraception. The loss of fertility must be a secondary result of the treatment of another condition for it to be moral.

 

Much work has been done to study natural fertility in order to be able to treat problems and avoid pregnancy without the use of artificial hormones or other bodily system altering methods. For most, these are quite effective. For some, it is more difficult to monitor their fertility, and so these natural methods are very trying and can be a hardship.

 

According to the Catholic worldview, suffering and hardships are a part of life, they can not be avoided completely, and so we should strive to use them as opportunities to grow and mature, in other words become more holy. This is much more easily said than done, obviously, and I'm afraid this line of thinking makes many think the church is insensitive. However, this approach to suffering has, according to the Catholic worldview, eternal bliss in heaven as it's reward. The church simply wants to help people get to heaven.

 

Of course, non-Catholics don't see the world this way. I'm not trying to argue, the point, just help people see that the Church's position on suffering does not come from a hardened heart or lack of love, or a naivete about how hard life can be.

 

http://www.naprotechnology.com/

 

 

Honestly, I read this and wish I had been born Protestant.

 

My choices, should I choose to remain Catholic, are

-be happy with relations twice a month until menopause or I get lucky enough to have some dread disease requiring a hysterectomy or

-have 5 more children and hope my brain doesn't explode.

Awesome.

[stripe]

Catholics are allowed to use NFP and other abstinence based methods in order to avoid pregnancy.

 

Thank you so much for your thoughtful post. I appreciate your having taken the time to explain.

[VeritasMama]

(I'm not Catholic, so I don't know how helpful this will be)

WRT to the strain on the marriage and relationship....

 

Would it help to consider that Jesus was a human man....and celibate? He knows how hard that is.

 

Also, in reading the Old Testament laws, God wanted men and women to learn to govern their passions. (times of cleanness when relations were permissible, and uncleanness when they were forbidden) Perhaps the struggle is designed to teach us to depend more fully on Him.

 

I sometimes look at trials that really stretch me as something that God will use to make me more like Jesus. I need to lean into Him when I am struggling. So while the trouble is HARD, I can rejoice in it, knowing that I'm growing closer to God during the difficulty.

 

If any of this is out of line, I apologize.

 

 

You sound very Catholic ;)

[fairfarmhand]

 

You sound very Catholic ;)

 

HAHAA!!!

 

Just a good Baptist preacher's kid here!

 

I've learned from these boards that Catholics and Protestants have more in common that I'd been led to believe growing up.

 

OP, I am so sorry you are struggling so much. I can't imagine. I promise I'm not trying to give you a flippant answer to a difficult question.

 

Do you have family nearby?

 

I think the fragmentation of our families really helps moms of young kids feel completely overwhelmed. We're all so busy that we can't help one another out, and as a result, moms with big families quickly get swamped. I think we all need a kind, helpful, understanding Mary Poppins to come and assist us every now and then.

[Alexigail]

Honestly, I read this and wish I had been born Protestant.

My choices, should I choose to remain Catholic, are

-be happy with relations twice a month until menopause or I get lucky enough to have some dread disease requiring a hysterectomy or

-have 5 more children and hope my brain doesn't explode.

Awesome.

 

Hugs. These things are difficult and not always clear cut. I'm not Catholic and have often appreciated that in the OC we are considered as individuals in matters like these. I have no idea what a mortal sin is, but I do believe in God's mercy, especially for those who are trying to do His will and do right by their families. I'm not bashing Catholocism, I promise. I just want to offer support. I hope that you will find some answers soon.

[TravelingChris]

I would be studying the Bible and praying a lot to come to a conclusion. I was a Catholic though left it a long time ago (not due to the BC problem). Among things I would consider- how fair is it to the other children to have a mother so stressed, how fair to your marriage, can you afford anymore children with no reliance on aid and without hurting the other children (by that I mean not wants but needs like medical and dental care might have to be curtailed). How if affects your health. You can be a Catholic and use a barrier method or w/d. Yes, a Pope said it was a grave sin. But the majority of Catholics in the US use these methods and even more problematic ones. Is everyone going to hell? I believe strongly in a benevolent god who is all powerfull. We all know condoms can break or fail in some other way. You are not stopping God. God is more powerful than a little piece of latex.

 

In my view, it is a very wrong way to lump together all types of b/c and even murder (abortion). Abortion is a horrible sin. SOme b/c m,ethods are partially based on being abortificants. DOn't use those. But w/d??? There is nothing artificial about that. Condoms were used for hundreds of years if not longer with no official condemnation.

 

I am not telling you to go ahead and do it. I am telling you to read the Bible and pray and listen to where God is leading you. Maybe it will be to continue doing what you are doing. Maybe not.

[UrbanSue]

((hugs)) I am sorry you are struggling. This is such a difficult issue for couples generally, but strong religious teaching added into the mix adds to the difficulty.

 

I am not Catholic, but as I have learned more about Catholicism in recent years I have come to see the reasons behind many of their teachings. This is one area that still does not make sense to me doctrinally either. It seems to me that the "oneness" aspect of marriage would lead Christians to value the sexual relationship within marriage without tying it exclusively to the idea of child-bearing. I wish you peace and wisdom as you struggle with this.

 

 

If the Church tied the sexual relationship exclusively to child-bearing, the teaching would be that couples could only have sex when trying to conceive. Quite the opposite, NFP says that it's perfectly fine to have sex on days when you know you're infertile. The Church teaches that there are two ends of sex: the unitive and the procreative. The unitive is listed first. The Church is all about couples experiencing "oneness."

 

But that doesn't diminish how difficult it is to follow church teaching in some situations.

[Moxie]

Hugs. These things are difficult and not always clear cut. I'm not Catholic and have often appreciated that in the OC we are considered as individuals in matters like these. I have no idea what a mortal sin is, but I do believe in God's mercy, especially for those who are trying to do His will and do right by their families. I'm not bashing Catholocism, I promise. I just want to offer support. I hope that you will find some answers soon.

 

Honestly, there are no answers to be found. If I am to be a Catholic in good standing, I can use NFP only, I can move to my own bedroom for most of the month or I can have a bunch more children. There is no other door that I'm failing to look behind.

[VeritasMama]

Honestly, I read this and wish I had been born Protestant.

 

My choices, should I choose to remain Catholic, are

-be happy with relations twice a month until menopause or I get lucky enough to have some dread disease requiring a hysterectomy or

-have 5 more children and hope my brain doesn't explode.

Awesome.

 

 

:grouphug:

 

It is hard, there is really nothing more to say than to just offer you some prayers and sympathy.

 

Either the church is true or it is not, you have to decide which one you believe for yourself.

 

We have had to go through prolonged periods of abstinence due to some difficulties on my part, and I am no saint. It is hard, and it is make or break for any relationship. If you figure out how to deal with it in a sacramental way, it can bring you closer. If you are already dealing with other issues in the relationship, or if you are not really living a sacramental marriage, it can drive you much further apart. I have experienced both scenarios during my 12 year marriage. I don't know how we have gotten through it other than stubborness and the grace of God. I know how you feel, it is so difficult.

 

I hope that there is some type of medical help out there for you so you can get either learn to monitor your irregular fertility more effectively, or so you can find some way to make things more regular. Either way, as someone said up thread, you aren't going through anything the Lord Himself didn't go through, he had to endure celibacy himself, and He wants to help you through it, and has given us the sacraments to sustain us during the hard times.

 

I hope you are able to find peace.

 

:grouphug:

[Soror]

-have 5 more children and hope my brain doesn't explode.

Awesome.

 

I know my personal frustration is that in the "orthodox" circles there is little if any thought to the mental health of the mother. It is just really inconsequential as if the virtues of large families outweigh all of it.

 

eta *That being said I'm coming at this from a place that NFP has been relatively easy compared to some. I do feel at times though my only value is based on reproduction as it is pushed so far ahead of everything else. I see at times how much wonderful thought is given to children but also I see that every aspect of childcare is put secondary to how many kids you have. I think there is not enough attention given to raising those children well, providing them education, catechism and a loving home. Unfortunately those things are pushed out as moms run out of energy to give it all to everyone.

[Alexigail]

I just wanted to add that if I were you, I'd talk to your priest (typical Orthodox response here, but it can help!) and also your doctor. Perhaps you don't have other options in order to remain Catholic, but you probably have medical, nutritional, or other options to help with your cycles. There may be a spiritual point of view that you haven't considered. There may be help available to you through your church, from a friend, etc that would ease some of your burden.

Ultimately, you'll have to decide if this is a deal breaker for you, and maybe it is. But I do think there are options out there for people who feel stuck and I'd hate to see anyone lose their faith or relationship with God when there are things you can do. Good Luck to you.

[fairfarmhand]

I know my personal frustration is that in the "orthodox" circles there is little if any thought to the mental health of the mother. It is just really inconsequential as if the virtues of large families outweigh all of it.

 

:iagree:

 

Although we are not encouraged nor discouraged to bear lots of kids in my denomination, I know lots of quiverful families. One enormous motivating factor in stopping at 4 kids was the fact that I struggle so badly with depression, and it is made much worse by exhaustion. I love each and every one of my kids, but the years when I was pregnant and nursing, I was not a very good mom.

[Moxie]

I know my personal frustration is that in the "orthodox" circles there is little if any thought to the mental health of the mother. It is just really inconsequential as if the virtues of large families outweigh all of it.

 

Or how financial concerns are somehow too "worldly". Sorry, money is a real issue where I live!

[VeritasMama]

Or how financial concerns are somehow too "worldly". Sorry, money is a real issue where I live!

 

 

Financial hardships are considered very valid reasons to avoid pregnancy in the Catholic church. It is the method used for avoiding pregnancy that is causing the difficulty, the church is not telling you you should have more children.

[JustEm]

OP, as a Catholic practicing NFP I understand the struggle you are faced with. Have you researched all the avenues in order to try to get your hormones back in balance? I think if you haven't then start there. PP having given a few resource/suggestions for that. What are your dh's feelings on the issue? Is he equally frustrated with this and is he doing an equal amount of research to possibly come up with a solution?

 

I ask because when I struggled with NFP the most I realized that it had somehow got put all on me. We had stopped discussing it as a couple and I any research or charting was all on me (happened unintentionally.) Because I was handling it alone or mostly alone the stress was amplified quite a bit.

[Parrothead]

 

 

This is a huge difference!! As someone said earlier, the Catholic church is black and white on this issue. It is forbidden in all cases, everywhere, no matter what. There is a difference between being asked to not use birth control and being taught that you will be damned to Hell if you do. I'm really stuggling with that.

 

 

No,that is wrong.

 

If being on the pill for other reasons is needed, then it is needed. The fact that it is birth control is a side issue. Sometimes women are on the pill for hormone regulation. That is perfectly acceptable. Being on the pill solely for birth control is an issue.

[Moxie]

 

 

Financial hardships are considered very valid reasons to avoid pregnancy in the Catholic church. It is the method used for avoiding pregnancy that is causing the difficulty, the church is not telling you you should have more children.

 

Sorry, I wasn't clear. The Church isn't saying that and, FOR SURE, the other Catholics at my parish aren't saying it. We are easily the biggest family already. I'm talking about the NFP pushers and those who would remind me to "be open to life".

[Moxie]

 

 

No,that is wrong.

 

If being on the pill for other reasons is needed, then it is needed. The fact that it is birth control is a side issue. Sometimes women are on the pill for hormone regulation. That is perfectly acceptable. Being on the pill solely for birth control is an issue.

 

Sorry, I was only referring to birth control for that purpose not as a side-effect.

[SKL]

I don't understand it either. Is it from the Bible? If not, what was the thought process behind the argument that sex between married people without intent to procreate is wrong? I mean, I know God told specific folks to be fruitful and multiply, but that was before there were 6+ Billion people on Earth.