How do you know God exists?

[SunnyDays]

I'm another who sees God in the beauty of creation. I look at the majesty of nature, the miracle of life and childbirth, our complex bodies and emotions... none of that is random to me. As others said, do I have any tangible proof that God exists? Not really... but that's faith. I have no doubt that God exists (in some form, even if He is not exactly as I imagine).

 

It's hard to have your world shaken by questioning. I wish you peace and wisdom as you sort things out. :grouphug:

[Kaleidoscope]

I can't accept that he doesn't exist. I've tried. Tried to walk away. But I can't get away from it. The more I fight fath the more it seems to hold tighter to me.

 

Most mornings my first thought is, can there really be a God in all this? But before my feet hit the floor I'm certain there is.

 

He is certainly a God I do not understand but I can't deny him.

[Celia]

Well, apart from the Scriptures, I think the beauty of creation speaks of the Creator. Science can explain a lot (and of course there's a lot it can't explain), but the impersonal development of all there is doesn't account for it's beauty.

 

The faith I hold though, I think I have good reason for it. It's unfortunate that people look at reason not as a part of faith, when put into a religious context. If I say I have faith in, say, my doctor, it's because I have good evidence that he knows what he's doing. It's not a lack of faith that prompts a person to look for proof or evidence that what they've put their faith in is indeed true.

 

The Bible says that faith comes by hearing the Word of God. And the more I study it deeply, the more I know that my faith (or belief - it's the same word in the Greek) is well-placed. Prophesy is a big one for me. As I looked more deeply into that, there was just no way that anything but inspiration made sense. And saying it was written after the events didn't make sense either, as archeological evidence proved it was written prior to the occurring events. I can give you numerous examples if you want.

 

And then, there's just some really amazing things in Scripture that just don't make sense if the book isn't inspired. The life of Joseph comes to mind. What a perfect type of Christ. Consider all these:

-Joseph was hated by his brethren, most beloved of his father

-they conspired to kill him, mocking him and stripping him

-Judah (the greek name for him is Judas) sold him for silver

-Joseph was thrown into prison (death) with two others, one who was saved, and the other wasn't (consider the theives on the cross)

-Joseph is pulled out of prison (resurrection) and put in power 2nd only to Pharoah, and called the saviour of the world

-When Joseph revealed himself to his brethren, they didn't know him at first (2nd advent) until he revealed himself to him

-He tells them not to be angry with themselves, for God sent him before them to preserve life.

 

Joseph is never recorded as having committed a sin. There's so much more that could be shown in only the life of Joseph, the points I made just touch on some of it. Does it really make sense that the life, death, resurrection, and glory of Christ would have been written of in the New Testament to follow the life of Joseph?

 

And how about the details of Christ's crucifixion in Psalm 22. Couldl the gospel writers really have gotten together to write up a fictional account of the details of his death to match it so well? And if they did, why? To what end? So an evil nasty Roman emporer could make their lives completely miserable?

 

Sometimes the minutest little details in Scripture, once you look into them, can just make your jaw drop with the profound significance they have. And other times the parables are so take up such a large span of history that providence is the only explanation. For example, the entire event of Israel leaving Egypt, wandering in the wilderness, and going into the promised land is a parable of us leaving our previous way of life (Egypt), via Christ (passover), going through the Red Sea (baptism), wandering in the wilderness (going through life), crossing the Jordan (resurrection) and going into the promised land (the Kingdom of God).

 

Only don't let your faith be weak, and fall behind alone, or you might get picked off by the Amalekites!

 

I've rambled, but wanted to give some examples of how faith is strengthened by the Word, and that there can be more to faith than the circular idea that faith is based on faith, which is why it's faith. It can be based on reason and proof, so that when God doesn't 'feel' real or near, you can be rest assured that what he has promised, he is able to perform.

[gardenmom5]

There are so many things, experiences I've had personally where *i know*. (anyone who is determined to rationalize something away, will.) It isn't any "one" thing. I'm sorry you're having a hard time right now. Sometimes, we just hang on for dear life because that is part of our experience and that we trust God will somehow get us through. He always does. (though there have been times I wondered.)

hugs.

[Melissa in Australia]

I believe because I see evidence all around me.

[misty.warden]

I believe because fighting against belief and trying to live without, and deny to the best of my ability, faith was killing me slowly. Once I gave up and entertained the thought that there could be a God there was room for hope rather than the cop-outs and reactionary living I'd thought was the only way I could live.

 

I wanted to thank you all soooo much. This has been a very good thread for me and I really appreciate the pm's. What about those who have cried out and God did not answer? Or didn't answer in the way you were hoping? I know that having God answer prayer is wonderfully reassuring, but what about when He doesn't....at least not the way you were hoping. And, yes, I am thinking of the more traumatic life situations. How do you have faith then?

 

God always answers, sometimes the answer is no or something we don't want to hear. A brushstroke on a canvas cannot see its own part in the greater work of art, and the artist doesn't expect it to. Obviously we're more than that to God but I had to give up my wanting to know what was going on and why everything happened. Even in life we don't ever really know a person's motives for their actions, and I don't expect it to be different for God. He has no responsibility to explain His every action to me.

[jelbe5]

I wanted to thank you all soooo much. This has been a very good thread for me and I really appreciate the pm's.

 

What about those who have cried out and God did not answer? Or didn't answer in the way you were hoping? I know that having God answer prayer is wonderfully reassuring, but what about when He doesn't....at least not the way you were hoping. And, yes, I am thinking of the more traumatic life situations. How do you have faith then?

 

 

I have cried out to God many times. Failed relationships and autism in my son are the big ones. While God did not answer my prayer with the relationships in the way I wanted, I see now the plan He had for me is so much better. With my son, God has helped me see that, while my son is not "normal" or "perfect" by the world's standards, I still love him, just as God loves me though I fall short. There are other lessons I learn from living with a special needs child. I have learned to trust and love, even though it is hard some days. While I would never have chosen autism, there are lessons to be learned and strength to be found in the difficult times.

[creekland]

Take away your sacred scriptures, teachings, theology. How do you know? Really know? If you have had a miraculous encounter how do you know that wasn't simply overwrought emotions? A chemical imbalance?

 

 

 

The alternative - that this whole Universe (and everything we know from the microscopic to the huge) came from nothing - is absolutely unbelievable to me.

 

I read a joke once (secular magazine) that went something like this:

 

Scientists had finally figured out how to create life and wanted to show they could do it as well as God, so challenged him to a showdown. God agreed. Each were at their own station getting ready to start. The scientists grabbed a handful of dirt in anticipation of the bell when God suddenly called out, "Just a minute! Get your own dirt!"

 

That kind of sums it up for me - the pure basics. If there was a cosmic speck that exploded in a big bang - where did that speck come from and why did it explode? Why doesn't it still happen? It's FAR easier for me to believe in a timeless God controlling things (even the big bang if that's how it happened) than something out of nothing.

 

I had to figure out which god I thought was "the" God (based on all the options, etc) and that used more reasoning on my part, but that's a different issue. Nothing in life that has happened (from the great to the ugly) has made me think my thoughts could be wrong. There are many things I question (why), but I'm convinced that this planet is kind of a training ground for what comes next. Our souls/spirits (character?) are being shaped. When one is training, sometimes one gets horrible situations that can hurt. Such is life. It isn't always great - except, perhaps, in movies. I have confidence that at the end of this life, all ends up well for those who choose it.

[mytwomonkeys]

I wanted to thank you all soooo much. This has been a very good thread for me and I really appreciate the pm's.

 

What about those who have cried out and God did not answer? Or didn't answer in the way you were hoping? I know that having God answer prayer is wonderfully reassuring, but what about when He doesn't....at least not the way you were hoping. And, yes, I am thinking of the more traumatic life situations. How do you have faith then?

 

 

:grouphug: i'm so sorry. i know those times can be really difficult. without going into details, i've had a couple of circumstances that really drained me and shook my faith to the core. one was with the suicide of one my dearest friends.

 

i read a quote by anne rice around that time (she was a christian back then) and i loved the way she phrased her viewpoint & it really spoke to my understanding vs. God's. i'll piecemeal it here.

 

"In the moment of surrender, I let go of all the theological or social questions which had kept me from Him for countless years. I simply let them go. There was the sense, profound and wordless, that if He knew everything - I did not have to know everything, and that, in seeking to know everything, I'd been, all of my life, missing the entire point. No social paradox, no historic disaster, no hideous record of injustice or misery should keep me from Him.

......

I didn't have to know why good people suffered agony or died in pain. He knew. And it was His knowing that overwhelmed me…â€

 

 

 

i understand it may not apply directly to you... it's just the last line resonates with me so much and really applies to all situations imho. "I didn't have to know... He knew. And it was His knowing that overwhelmed me". i just love that truth and take such comfort in it.

[J-rap]

1) I think it's harder to NOT believe in a God than to believe in God.

 

2) Hindsight.

 

3) The logic of Christ's message.

 

4) Some amazing prophesies I have seen in my life.

[Guest submarines]

I believe in a creator because of the beauty of creation. I also believe that religion is what humans (human brains, more specifically) create in order to make sense of things--which could be part of the design, of course. The sacred scriptures, teachings, theology are what humans (human brains) create in order to make the abstract more accessible--that's why they are full of holes (which could also be part of the design, of course.

 

I think God just is, and that's enough for me. I'm in awe every day with the beauty of the creation. I believe in prayer because everything is energy, and prayers are a concrete way to transmit energy.

[Georgiana Daniels]

Take away your sacred scriptures, teachings, theology. How do you know? Really know? If you have had a miraculous encounter how do you know that wasn't simply overwrought emotions? A chemical imbalance?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Help. :(

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If the thread gets icky I will probably just walk from it, but I am really hoping that the collective Hive wisdom will not disappoint. Also, this is not an Orthodox issue. If it weren't for Orthodoxy, I would already have walked away.

 

 

 

I think it's normal to have a season of questioning, and that's ok. Thomas questioned, and Jesus didn't reject him, He offered the proof. God also says that those who seek Him WILL find Him if they seek with all their hearts.

 

For me, I've seen too many answers to prayer for it to be a coincidence. Not just the "this could've happened anyway" type answers, but specific, on-target, this is from the same Lord who walked on water, answers. And even when we've been through our desert times, His still small voice confirms that we are His children :)

 

Continue to seek, pray, ask questions. God is big enough to hear and answer. More than that--He cares! The fact that you are desiring to know is proof He is reaching out to you. He wants that intimacy with you so that you'll have confirmation deep in your soul that He loves you and He is real.

[Juniper]

Thanks again, everyone! It is nice to know that others have held on by their fingernails as well. :) This morning is off to a rough start. A computer that won't turn on and just beeps at us, not realizing we would lose quite as much as we were in the increased tax as well as the fact that we lost it a pay period earlier than we thought, and well kids being kids on a Monday morning. :)

[milovany]

O Lord,

grant that I may meet the coming day in peace.

Help me in all things

to rely upon Thy Holy Will.

In every hour of the day,

reveal Thy will to me.

Bless my dealings with all who surround me.

Teach me to treat all that comes to me

throughout the day with peace of soul,

and with the firm conviction that Thy will governs all.

In all my deeds and words,

guide my thoughts and feelings.

In unforeseen events, let me not forget

that all are sent by Thee.

Teach me to act firmly and wisely,

without embittering and embarrassing others.

Give me the strength to bear the fatigue

of the coming day with all that it shall bring.

Direct my will.

Teach me to pray.

Pray Thou Thyself in me.

Amen.

 

(Morning prayer of Metropolitan Philaret of Moscow)

[Juniper]

O Lord,

grant that I may meet the coming day in peace.

Help me in all things

to rely upon Thy Holy Will.

In every hour of the day,

reveal Thy will to me.

Bless my dealings with all who surround me.

Teach me to treat all that comes to me

throughout the day with peace of soul,

and with the firm conviction that Thy will governs all.

In all my deeds and words,

guide my thoughts and feelings.

In unforeseen events, let me not forget

that all are sent by Thee.

Teach me to act firmly and wisely,

without embittering and embarrassing others.

Give me the strength to bear the fatigue

of the coming day with all that it shall bring.

Direct my will.

Teach me to pray.

Pray Thou Thyself in me.

Amen.

 

(Morning prayer of Metropolitan Philaret of Moscow)

 

Dang it! You know you are worn down a bit when just reading the morning prayers out loud has you weeping. Someone really knew what this road is like and has a knack for writing down those feelings in prayer form.

[LostSurprise]

What about those who have cried out and God did not answer? Or didn't answer in the way you were hoping? I know that having God answer prayer is wonderfully reassuring, but what about when He doesn't....at least not the way you were hoping. And, yes, I am thinking of the more traumatic life situations. How do you have faith then?

 

This is a great question, and one I've struggled with over the last 4 years.

 

People have different reasons for the struggle so I'll just speak for my own experience. My personal theology doesn't expect God to change things for my benefit. I believe free will is a beautiful thing but we pay for free will with chaos. The needs and wants of every living thing overlap. We chafe each other as we seek what we need. There's a lot of pain involved. What I do expect from God is guidance and comfort in this process. So my pain isn't from what I haven't received but from a lack of connection with God when I felt I needed it the most.

 

In many ways disconnecting from God is like a death, or a divorce. You grieve. You're angry. You're numb and accepting. You go through many stages. For me personally, first I tried to find what I was doing wrong. Then I waited. Then I mourned and questioned my faith, even my experience, the way I thought about things and made decisions.

 

After many long sleepless nights I realized:

* I could accept death as the final end, but I couldn't accept the selfish pain that is this life without any way to connect and improve humanity.

* I personally need the concepts of sin/forgiveness/growing toward a perfect ideal.

* Christianity makes me a better, more forgiving person because it reminds me of how similar my sinful jerkiness is to the sinful (but different!) jerkiness of others. Frankly, its easier to be snarky and superior. Its easier to leave the whole subject behind because I'm good enough. Its easy to contribute to the chaos because I haven't given it any forethought to what my needs and wants do to others.

 

* If I discount all my experiences, then I have to question the very person I am. Something happened to me. While I'm open to other explanations, I'm not open to questioning my very being. I have no evidence that my perception is faulty, so something happened which isn't currently happening. If there isn't any way for me to know why (too many possibilities) then I need to wait and collect more data.

* No matter how open-minded I thought I was, God is still bigger then my concept of Him. He doesn't fit easily between the lines I've created for Him. Why should I be so surprised that He isn't exactly what I think?

 

So I'm not ready to let go yet. Like I said earlier, I put the whole thing on a back burner in my life. I still pray, but I don't study. I wait for the day when maybe my heart is less numb or I have insight into my situation that just isn't available right now.

[jms]

Psalm 42 always helps me.

 

 

¹ As the deer pants for streams of water,

so my soul pants for you, my God.

² My soul thirsts for God, for the living God.

When can I go and meet with God?

³ My tears have been my food

day and night,

while people say to me all day long,

“Where is your God?â€

⁴ These things I remember

as I pour out my soul:

how I used to go to the house of God

under the protection of the Mighty One^[d]

with shouts of joy and praise

among the festive throng.

 

⁵ Why, my soul, are you downcast?

Why so disturbed within me?

Put your hope in God,

for I will yet praise him,

my Savior and my God.

 

⁶ My soul is downcast within me;

therefore I will remember you

from the land of the Jordan,

the heights of Hermon—from Mount Mizar.

⁷ Deep calls to deep

in the roar of your waterfalls;

all your waves and breakers

have swept over me.

 

⁸ By day the Lord directs his love,

at night his song is with me—

a prayer to the God of my life.

 

⁹ I say to God my Rock,

“Why have you forgotten me?

Why must I go about mourning,

oppressed by the enemy?â€

¹⁰ My bones suffer mortal agony

as my foes taunt me,

saying to me all day long,

“Where is your God?â€

¹¹ Why, my soul, are you downcast?

Why so disturbed within me?

Put your hope in God,

for I will yet praise him,

my Savior and my God.

[Guest]

I wanted to thank you all soooo much. This has been a very good thread for me and I really appreciate the pm's.

 

What about those who have cried out and God did not answer? Or didn't answer in the way you were hoping? I know that having God answer prayer is wonderfully reassuring, but what about when He doesn't....at least not the way you were hoping. And, yes, I am thinking of the more traumatic life situations. How do you have faith then?

 

Juniper, I just wanted to say I understand this struggle very fully. My most major difficulty is when relief from horrors does not come, despite many prayers. I can't really accept it when a friend's child dies a horrifying death or people do not have even their most basic needs met. Then, I hear people thanking God for helping them find their missing car keys and, I admit, it disgusts me.

 

I did just finish reading a wonderful book called, "Grey Matter," about a neurosurgeon who prays with his patients. I love that he reports undesirable outcomes as well as desirable outcomes. I love his humility when he says, after a string of great outcomes, that he falsely begins to have confidence in his own ability to "activate" God's healing. Then he has some bad outcomes and has to reconcile that he does not know why God permits that. It made me wish I could spend some time with someone like him.

[Briva]

Take away your sacred scriptures, teachings, theology. How do you know? Really know? If you have had a miraculous encounter how do you know that wasn't simply overwrought emotions? A chemical imbalance?

 

Lots of miraculous encounters that can only be explained that there is a higher power, God and His angels watching over us. Yet knowing the pain that bad things happen to good people, then wondering if you are 'good' enough...and why does He leave us in the wilderness. Answers please.

 

I was taught the faith by a religious mother, mom left her church and her faith. Not enough there to sustain her. I will always believe there is a God, what I am not sure of is if there is a church He left here for us? When I think of Jesus, God, etc. it is with a spark of joy, but when I think about church (religion) I feel the pangs of agony. I have had to study His word in para-church organizations. Religion, it is rules, it is procedures, its budget meetings and fundraisers. I dont always see God. Where the faithful gather, there is God. Okay, He is there. He is with the faithful...He has been with me whereever I have been, and I have been everywhere. I thought He left a church? Its taken my lifetime searching for it. Maybe it is within each of those who recognizes Him here :) Pass the bread and the wine, please.

[Juniper]

 

Juniper, I just wanted to say I understand this struggle very fully. My most major difficulty is when relief from horrors does not come, despite many prayers. I can't really accept it when a friend's child dies a horrifying death or people do not have even their most basic needs met. Then, I hear people thanking God for helping them find their missing car keys and, I admit, it disgusts me.

 

I did just finish reading a wonderful book called, "Grey Matter," about a neurosurgeon who prays with his patients. I love that he reports undesirable outcomes as well as desirable outcomes. I love his humility when he says, after a string of great outcomes, that he falsely begins to have confidence in his own ability to "activate" God's healing. Then he has some bad outcomes and has to reconcile that he does not know why God permits that. It made me wish I could spend some time with someone like him.

 

 

This is exactly it. I have walked that close path, seen those prayers answered...but then the silence comes and it is so disorienting.

 

 

Again, I appreciate so much the stories and thoughts that are being shared. The pm's and phone calls have helped so much. Even just to get my head up a little and distract me. ;)

[gardenmom5]

What about those who have cried out and God did not answer? Or didn't answer in the way you were hoping? I know that having God answer prayer is wonderfully reassuring, but what about when He doesn't....at least not the way you were hoping. And, yes, I am thinking of the more traumatic life situations. How do you have faith then?

 

 

Sometimes we don't "hear" the answer when it comes. (for a number of reasons) Sometimes God is silent, BUT He is **always** watching. (even Jesus Christ called out on the cross feeling that He had been abandoned - but He wasn't.) I've learned even when I get no answer, God is there, waiting and watching and if something *needs* to be said (re: you'd better turn right now or you're going to go over a cliff you can't see), it will be.

 

Sometimes the answer isn't what we want to hear (no, don't take that job even though you've been unemployed for six months, you've exhausted your savings from previous bouts of unemployment, it's thanksgiving - christmas is in four weeks, and you have four little children.), but it always works out (oh, gee, that company went belly up six months later.)

 

Many times we don't know the reason for an answer, BUT, I firmly believe things always work out, and many times it's because the Lord has something better in mind - sometimes better than even I can imagine. As painful as my fingernails got from hanging on, I have a deep assurance God loves me that I didn't have before my fingernails got a workout.

 

 

oh, I've shared elsewhere, but I will mention again. We've a friend who suffered a traumatic brain injury in a motorcycle accident. His first wife couldn't handle it and took his baby son and left. He is confined to a very specialized electric wheelchair. He speaks only with great difficulty, and even then is very hard to understand (we tease him it's because God shut his mouth because most people aren't ready to hear what he has to say. I say tease, but knowing what he's been doing the last 20 years, I also believe it.). He has barely adequate use of one arm. He spends his days doing what he can to serve God and other people - it's about all he's got. He is unfailingly positive. if you ask him how he is, he's "excellent". He has a deep and abiding faith in God, and he has seen His hand in his life.

[Tita Gidge]

I don't know God exists.

 

Somewhere, something inside of me is simply filled with the belief that He does.

 

Sometimes I wonder if that's just gas from my last meal, so my faith in God's existence is questionned. <-- is that supposed to have one "n" or two? Looks weird either way ..

 

Sometimes I feel so strongly yet I can't pinpoint any particular reason why God would exist ... and yet I still believe He does.

 

At the end of the day, I resign myself to the belief that I can't ever know but will choose to have faith that He does.

 

And if it all turns out to be the biggest hoax in history, well I'm no worse off for having believed and lived accordingly.

 

Some say faith is for the living, and I'm really okay with that :)

 

One can over-intellectualize just about anything. That can be a good thing. But at the end of the day our faith requires just that: faith.

 

 

ETA: reading more about unanswered prayers ...

 

I'm a simpleton, not an intellectual. So I break down the me/God relationship to the simplest terms I can process.

 

I'm a child, He's my Father.

 

I'm also a (human) parent to (human) children. There are times I need them to have faith in me, to trust me, when they think they know what they want ... or how they'd like things to go. Now, I'm far from omniscient but I sure have a lot more life experience than do my kids. I'm thinking of first relationships, from start to breakup; first jobs; the value of hardwork, both academically and professionally; navigating life in general. When they beg me to do something that I know will turn out badly, or when they can't fathom how I think they'll ever overcome a major school project or a breakup. They think I'm not listening, but I am. It's just that my advice and comfort come from knowing more than they can. I let them feel their feelings, I never try to tell them how they should feel. I let them make mistakes so they might learn, grow, and mature to a point where they realize there's a bigger picture ...and understand that they were letting one small section of that picture determine how they felt about EVERYTHING. I give them time, room, freedom to come to these realizations in their own time (if ever). I'm there for them without forcing myself on them; my guidance is there for them, but not mandatory. I'm always there, but I wait until they're ready (and therefore receptive) to my comfort, guidance, and care. I want them to want it, to seek it. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. Sometimes they wallow around waiting for me to come to them, but I know this is counterproductive because they're not passed the pity party stage. They aren't ready to hear what I have to say, they're still feeling the hurt, pain, confusion, frustration. So I wait. They don't always come, they sometimes spend time feeling like I've abandoned them or don't love them ... when really I never did and always will, just not on their terms. No relationship works well that way.

 

And so describes how my Father also parents me.

 

Faith doesn't give me a pass from life's problems, direct or indirect. Nor does it exempt me from the gift of free will, whether mine or the world's. What faith DOES give me is a lifeline when I'm in the mindset to accept that it won't only be on my terms. I believe in an all-knowing God, and just as I expect my kids to trust me that they'll get through hard times (personal and global) I hold myself to that same expectation that God will see me and the world through. I've lived through some pretty awful experiences, in which my faith waivered. Not unlike many people, I imagine. Unanswered prayers don't equal ignored prayers, or so I had to keep telling myself until I truly did begin to believe it.

[QuirkyKapers]

When I am having moments of despair, when I feel God isn't answering or reachable, I reread a devotional by Henri Nouwen called "Spiritual Dryness"
 

[raceNzanesmom]

All I have to do is look around, how a flower grows, how a caterpillar turns into a butterfly, into the face of a newborn baby. I have no doubt in the Creator. The details are by faith because of my belief in the One that made it all.

[Mrs Mungo]

I don't know that God exists. I believe that God exists. That is why they call it faith instead of certainty. I am sorry that you're struggling. :(

[Quiver0f10]

I went through something similar recently. Praying for you.

[Laurie4b]

Ok, I have so many stories, but I'll just tell you a funny one. You have some kids with ADHD. Well, I have a whole lot of ADHD traits and one of them is that organizing objects is like an LD and keeping up with the housework is very challenging. Well, a while after my second baby was born (not just after when people bring you meals, etc.], I was looking around the house and said, "God I would really like help with this house, but I am too embarrassed to ask anyone. So if you think I need help, too, would you have someone ask me?" Very shortly thereafter, a woman from our church called and said, "Could you use anyone to clean your house for you?" Now who asks THAT? ;)

 

I have some more serious ones, but I'll PM you when I get a chance. Or there is one more I might tell here, but gotta go right now.

[Guest]

Also, in thinking about the intricate universe, here's something that struck me recently. I'm taking a Biology class at college. The textbook is thoroughly secular. However, while reading about Meiosis, I just found it fascinating that the chromosomes cross over and "scramble" themselves in order to diversify the gene pool. To me, that is just one tiny example of how it would take a greater leap of faith to think nature itself just somehow figured out it should do this genetic scrambling than it does to believe it was designed to do so. :)

[Reya]

Objectively, cosmological argument. All the rebuttals are really poor, and the most recent attempt--"We're all an alien computer program!" is nothing short of hysterical.

[OnTheBrink]

I don't know how I know, but ever since my first childhood memories (age 2 or 3) I remember believing in God and wanting to know God and be near/with Him. As a little child, age 5 or so someone told me His name, Jesus. I had my mom take me to church, even though she wasn't church going. I called upon Him in every need by singing the Jesus Loves Me song. I don't have any very emotional stories or obvious "this is God" moments but a long abiding love and longing to know Him and be with Him and now that I'm Orthodox and the music is worshipful, worship Him.

 

I hope you find the assurance you are looking for. Sometimes when I have doubting moments, which are more frequent now that I'm Orthodox (which makes me think the enemy is at work) it helps me to zoom out and look at big picture across time and space and the immensity of that puts my mind at ease that there must be God.

 

I also remember having an understanding or sense of the concept of God at a young age (3 or 4) and we did NOT go to church. There is scripture that speaks about "eternity in their hearts" and it speaks of mankind, not just people of a particular faith, but throughout the world and ages. I agree also with the statement about creation.

 

 

I have had the same experience. I remember at a very young age (under 4--because I remember where I was when I had my first cognitive thought about God and we moved out of that house the summer before I turned 4). I can't remember ever NOT knowing that God exists. I was not raised in a religious or Christian home AT ALL. I've had periods of time where I was in rebellion and looking back over those times, it's clear to see how God protected me and had His hand on me, despite my idiotic choices and sinful ways. I don't think I've ever had a true crisis of faith. I mean, I've never considered that He didn't exist. I've had periods when I've wondered what the heck was going on in my life and I've had times when I've been completely befuddled by what the future would bring, but I've always "known" God was there. I think I've had enough experiences of God's protection and provision that even during "valleys" in life, I'm comforted by the fact He is there and He will provide, even MY eyes are dim and can see nothing but bleakness. (On a bit of a side note) It's always perplexed me when I've seen people say they've rejected God or church or Christianity because of how other people have treated them. We're all sinners. We all make our own choices. We're not puppets. If we choose to be jerks then that's because we made that choice. God didn't make us that way. I've had some really hurtful things said and done to me "in the name of Christ" and maybe it's because I've never had a time when I didn't believe in God that's allowed me to separate the idiotic hurtful things people do versus the grace and mercy and love of God himself

 

Anyway, I don't know if this has helped or not, but I pray for you. Hang in there. :grouphug:

[JenniferB]

OtBrink, I had rebellious periods too and I felt protected by my angel or Jesus. I always felt Him calling me back when I was living in an unworthy manner, well still do, just over different matters. It's a lifelong journey of repentance, eh?

[dancer67]

I think the site was down all day yesterday(maybe it was just me?) So I am just now getting to all the answers. But, I would still like to know about the Bible.? How do we know that it isn't something just make up? Take away scripture and???????(Or not just the Bible, but any form of the Bible). How do we really know that was written by disciples? The answers given are interesting. As far as creation, why does there need to be a "creator"? How do we know that all of this has not been here for billions of years, and life just happened. As in scientific, not creator. And doesn't anyone find it strange that we think we are the only ones who exist on earth, with ALL the galaxies around us? We cannot be the only life forms. Can we? When we die, does anyone think it is like before we are born? Just nothing. Try to remember before you were born. You can't. I am struggling with that. I would hate to think that it is like it is before we are born. And do any of you think we only have lived once? In the billions of years, we have only had ONE chance at living? I have so many questions I could fill up a whole page. (Sorry to hijack the OP questions)

[Izzy]

We don't know if the bible is made up. Christians range anywhere from it being all metaphorical to it being completely literal. The fact is no one knows and a lot of what we are taught as being biblical actually isn't. One example is original sin. It wasn't until the 3rd or 4th century that that was invented. Augustine, who was "a slave to his sexual excursions" came up original sin which states that since Adam sinned we are all born evil sinners because of that. Another one is the Trinity which the first Christians never mentioned. It would have been considered blasphemous. They knew something was special about Jesus but did not know what. It wasn't until after the first apostles were dead that people started arguing about Jesus being God. There was so much fighting that a council was called to end the fighting and decide once and for all. It was decided he was but the arguing didn't end there and went on for many years.

 

I have no idea how many times we live or what happens when we die. No one does. Just remember when someone tells you they do know and their religion has the revealed truth that there are numerous other religions that claim to have their own truth and their own religious experiences. I do believe we have a creator. But my belief is that this God is loving and does not seek justice on us. I choose to think God loves and accepts us all as God created us. But that's just my belief and the truth is no one really knows.

 

Life on other planets? I sometimes wonder. I think at sometime science will uncover some type of life but who knows.

 

Honestly, the best thing you can do is read books on all religions, read the different holy texts, and form your own viewpoint. The absolute best book to start with is The Story of God. It's written by a former nun and runs through the history of each religion and how the bible got put together and so much more. I wish I would have read it a long time ago. Anyway, don't be afraid to use your reason and logic. That's the first thing you're asked to check at the door in exchange for faith and there's too many people that have come out very damaged because of that.

 

"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear". Thomas Jefferson

 

I think the site was down all day yesterday(maybe it was just me?) So I am just now getting to all the answers. But, I would still like to know about the Bible.? How do we know that it isn't something just make up? Take away scripture and???????(Or not just the Bible, but any form of the Bible). How do we really know that was written by disciples? The answers given are interesting. As far as creation, why does there need to be a "creator"? How do we know that all of this has not been here for billions of years, and life just happened. As in scientific, not creator. And doesn't anyone find it strange that we think we are the only ones who exist on earth, with ALL the galaxies around us? We cannot be the only life forms. Can we? When we die, does anyone think it is like before we are born? Just nothing. Try to remember before you were born. You can't. I am struggling with that. I would hate to think that it is like it is before we are born. And do any of you think we only have lived once? In the billions of years, we have only had ONE chance at living? I have so many questions I could fill up a whole page. (Sorry to hijack the OP questions)

[Juniper]

I think the site was down all day yesterday(maybe it was just me?) So I am just now getting to all the answers. But, I would still like to know about the Bible.? How do we know that it isn't something just make up? Take away scripture and???????(Or not just the Bible, but any form of the Bible). How do we really know that was written by disciples? The answers given are interesting. As far as creation, why does there need to be a "creator"? How do we know that all of this has not been here for billions of years, and life just happened. As in scientific, not creator. And doesn't anyone find it strange that we think we are the only ones who exist on earth, with ALL the galaxies around us? We cannot be the only life forms. Can we? When we die, does anyone think it is like before we are born? Just nothing. Try to remember before you were born. You can't. I am struggling with that. I would hate to think that it is like it is before we are born. And do any of you think we only have lived once? In the billions of years, we have only had ONE chance at living? I have so many questions I could fill up a whole page. (Sorry to hijack the OP questions)

 

I do not have as much trouble with the Bible itself. When I was first looking into Orthodox Christianity I made a statement to the effect of Christianity needing to change in light of archaeological findings (this was said to an EO person). I was basically trying to make a hole in their "traditions." The response from Father of Pearl was, "What findings?" Sure enough this made me really dig and almost all of what I found backed up not just the scriptures, but the traditions of the early church. Things like tiny icons that were discovered. Icons used for personal prayer usage. I cannot remember the link, but Milovany might.

 

Anyway, that line to me is rather intact.

 

For me it is really struggling with the dark place of does God even exist? Is there really anyone hearing these prayers. Like someone else stated earlier, I feel sick when someone says, "Oh, God thank you for answering my prayer about a certain parking spot, while not giving mind to the children dying of starvation while pleading for food." What sort of God does that? Ugh! Heck, I even struggle with the whole, my car didn't start so I bet God was delaying me so I would not be killed by that drunk driver, but where was the car stall for the young woman who drove home only to be brutally murdered.

 

Then again, I have stood with the rain pouring down, first good Samaritan on the scene of a car accident, some reason I looked up to see a car hydroplaning right towards me. I jumped away with all my might and landed two car lengths away. My scarf pinned under the tires of the car that almost hit me. How did I jump so far? Why was I able to, but the police officer a few miles away was killed?

 

I am starting to come to terms with the fact that the answer may lie in perspective. I do not have an eternal perspective. I do not see the whole picture. I do not have the whole story. But then that takes faith that there is more to the story...... ;)

 

 

Do not worry about hijacking! I have gotten some wonderful answers and love a great religious discussion!

[dancer67]

I do not have as much trouble with the Bible itself. When I was first looking into Orthodox Christianity I made a statement to the effect of Christianity needing to change in light of archaeological findings (this was said to an EO person). I was basically trying to make a hole in their "traditions." The response from Father of Pearl was, "What findings?" Sure enough this made me really dig and almost all of what I found backed up not just the scriptures, but the traditions of the early church. Things like tiny icons that were discovered. Icons used for personal prayer usage. I cannot remember the link, but Milovany might.

 

Anyway, that line to me is rather intact.

 

For me it is really struggling with the dark place of does God even exist? Is there really anyone hearing these prayers. Like someone else stated earlier, I feel sick when someone says, "Oh, God thank you for answering my prayer about a certain parking spot, while not giving mind to the children dying of starvation while pleading for food." What sort of God does that? Ugh! Heck, I even struggle with the whole, my car didn't start so I bet God was delaying me so I would not be killed by that drunk driver, but where was the car stall for the young woman who drove home only to be brutally murdered.

 

Then again, I have stood with the rain pouring down, first good Samaritan on the scene of a car accident, some reason I looked up to see a car hydroplaning right towards me. I jumped away with all my might and landed two car lengths away. My scarf pinned under the tires of the car that almost hit me. How did I jump so far? Why was I able to, but the police officer a few miles away was killed?

 

I am starting to come to terms with the fact that the answer may lie in perspective. I do not have an eternal perspective. I do not see the whole picture. I do not have the whole story. But then that takes faith that there is more to the story...... ;)

 

 

Do not worry about hijacking! I have gotten some wonderful answers and love a great religious discussion!

Exactly! This is ALL the things I question myself. Like, why did God let one of my twins die, and let the other one live? Why would he allow children to suffer so much? If God truly feels that he needs that child with Him, why the suffering? According to the Bible, God made Himself in man's own image. So, if He did. Why can't we see Him if we ask? I am more of a concrete thinker I guess, then a person who puts faith into something you cannot see. Has anyone scientifically proven that there is a God? Or do so many people just believe because that is what they were taught in childhood, and never questioned it? Thanks for answering my questions, and this has been a really good discussion.

[MrsMe]

How can one ask a question like that and preface it with "take away scripture". That's like saying how do you know there's space, but remove the scientific means we have/had to find out.

 

Faith. And creation.

 

Let me ask, how do you know he doesn't?

[pdalley]

Because the scriptures created an echo in me that said, hey this fits with what is true in my heart.

 

Then I said, hey you, God, are you real? If you are, connect with me in some way.

 

While I was waiting I would talk to Him sometimes. I tried to learn more about the scriptures to see if I really did agree with them completely. And one day, I felt something there. Something like when you take a big breath and let it out after holding it. Only I wasn't doing that. A stillness. A heightening. A centering. A lightness. A density. I can't really explain it properly.

 

Okay, I thought. I'm just feeling good today. Weird.

 

But I found the same thing would happen in bad times when I prayed. Or when a way opened up that I just seemed to know I should take. Or when I was in a really, really bad mood and I wasn't praying but I was going to do something or say something really stupid. It would just pop up. Weird.

 

I suppose I was young enough when it first happened that I didn't question my sanity much. I tested it. Made a little graph to see if it was just coming at certain times of the month or during certain moods. It always followed what I ultimately wanted to be as a person, so I decided it must be God. Sometimes it feels like a soft, warm nudge in the right direction. Sometimes when I've made other decisions that seemed right at the time (but ultimately weren't) its felt like lying naked on a cold metal table.

 

I suppose many could say I have a heightened sense of imagination or a weird endocrine system but so far physical science and the rest of my life hasn't proven that to be true. I suppose until that time I'll have to assume its God. It certainly works in the way the scriptures say God would work, although it wasn't what I imagined when it all started.

 

BTW, before I become some amazing religious person I don't always feel this. At the moment I'm going through a 4 year drought since my son was diagnosed and that's been hard. I thought if anything it would be stronger and more comforting now, and it isn't. But somehow, on the worst nights of fear and doubt, when I'm finally ready to let go of Christianity and God and everything else, way back in the corner its there, holding on. Not comforting me, or holding me the way I thought, but showing up at the worst moment and putting a single hand on my shoulder. No advice, no suggestions, just a reminder that sometimes faith is holding on by your fingernails through a situation that makes no sense from your position. Sometimes our hearts are too numb to feel much of anything from anyone, let alone a person we can't see or hear.

 

Sometimes you just do the best you can until you can do better. Its okay to rest on this journey if you don't know which way to go.

 

This is so beautifully said. I am so in that place. Hanging on by my fingernails yet something in me refuses to let go.

[Hunter's Moon]

I don't have this all worked out, but I never will, so here goes:

 

I believe in Free Will. Because of Free Will there is crime, disease, injustice, etc.

 

I follow a number of very ill children on Facebook. Very recently (as in, his burial is happening today), one that I have followed for a few months now and loved seeing daily pictures of passed away suddenly. I pray for the children I follow. I do not know why some get better and others get worse or pass away. I struggle a lot with asking for healing. I have no problem praying for peace, courage, etc, but I have trouble praying for healing.

 

People die because there is Free Will. If I were driving down the street and a drunk driver hit me and I died, it was that driver's Free Will that killed me. They freely chose to drink and drive and it resulted in an innocent's death. That happens.

 

I completely understand where these struggles and questions come from, because I question and struggle myself.

[gardenmom5]

I think the site was down all day yesterday(maybe it was just me?) So I am just now getting to all the answers. But, I would still like to know about the Bible.? How do we know that it isn't something just make up? Take away scripture and???????(Or not just the Bible, but any form of the Bible). How do we really know that was written by disciples? The answers given are interesting. As far as creation, why does there need to be a "creator"? How do we know that all of this has not been here for billions of years, and life just happened. As in scientific, not creator. And doesn't anyone find it strange that we think we are the only ones who exist on earth, with ALL the galaxies around us? We cannot be the only life forms. Can we? When we die, does anyone think it is like before we are born? Just nothing. Try to remember before you were born. You can't. I am struggling with that. I would hate to think that it is like it is before we are born. And do any of you think we only have lived once? In the billions of years, we have only had ONE chance at living? I have so many questions I could fill up a whole page. (Sorry to hijack the OP questions)

I happen to believe that true beliefs about God and correct scientific belief will never contradict each other. If there is contradiction, something is wrong. either the particular belief about God, about the scientific principle, or even both in misunderstood or even completely wacked out. Truth cannot contradict truth., I recall what Einstein had to saw about the theories of quantum physics. "God does not play dice". well - there were more things to learn, and quantum physics isn't random the way it had initially appeared. there was an even finer level to learn and what had seemed random became predictable. (just one poor example.)

 

I believe I did exist before I was physically born - I also believe God "blocked the memories" (for want of a better term) so that I can chose whether to act in faith and follow Him, or not, while upon the Earth. If we *knew* God existed because we could *remember* everything - we wouldn't have "faith", we would "know" and thus miss out on an important part of the experience of mortality, namely "will we choose to follow God becasue we want to?"

 

I do genealogy. I've had too many experiences to believe this life is "it", I have a firm belief life continues on an immortal plane after mortality.

[Juniper]

How can one ask a question like that and preface it with "take away scripture". That's like saying how do you know there's space, but remove the scientific means we have/had to find out.

 

Faith. And creation.

 

Let me ask, how do you know he doesn't?

 

 

Two things:First, I wasn't asking about a specific faith practice...hence specific scriptures being a moot point. Second, I didn't say that I know he doesn't.

[gardenmom5]

Exactly! This is ALL the things I question myself. Like, why did God let one of my twins die, and let the other one live? Why would he allow children to suffer so much? If God truly feels that he needs that child with Him, why the suffering? According to the Bible, God made Himself in man's own image. So, if He did. Why can't we see Him if we ask? I am more of a concrete thinker I guess, then a person who puts faith into something you cannot see. Has anyone scientifically proven that there is a God? Or do so many people just believe because that is what they were taught in childhood, and never questioned it? Thanks for answering my questions, and this has been a really good discussion.

 

 

Master who did sin that this child was born blind? Neither, but that the works of God may be made manifest.

 

I believe that our ability to experience joy is related to our experience of pain. How do we know the sweet without knowing what bitter tastes like? (I never go looking for those type of challenges, they'll find me all by themselves). People grow when they serve and so we need to have people to serve. sometimes a person is in a place they can serve, and other times they need to be served. if things were never difficult, there would be no need for service or opportunties to serve. the works of God would not have opportunity to be made manifest. Why does one live and one die - I don't know, but I belive God does.

 

I've mentioned previously my grandmother probably had a personality disorder. whatever, she was NOT. a. nice. person. (nor was she happy) she did alot of damage to her progeny, and caused a great deal of pain and dysnfuction that continues today. It took me *years* to forgive her and let it go. (and that does't mean there still aren't effects) Everything I've learned from that is such a precious thing to me - that took me YEARS after she died (she's been dead 20 years) to even beging to see there was something of value to my eternal outlook in those crappy experiences. even frightening in a way - I realized I woudln't give back one iota of what I went through to unlearn what I have learned. I am still trying to figure things out - but I am determined those experiences will not have been in vain, but that somehow, something good can come out of them. definitely nothing as dramatic as the founder of MADD or Adam Walsh and america's most wanted. How many lives have they saved becasue they made something good out of the death of their child?

[Saddlemomma]

Well, since no one else is either A) going to admit it or B) has never had the following experiences, I'll take the plunge....(just remember, I am not crazy!)

 

I have heard Him speak directly to me on three occasions, I felt Him beside me in a car once (accompanied with an unexplainable euphoria while crying my eyes out), and have had prophetic, brightly-colored dreams/visions from Him. The reason I know it was Him is because I was immediately and without thought reduced to violent sobbing. Lastly, innumerable prayers have been answered in the affirmative and came to fruition.

 

My dh has shared all the prayers I'm speaking about, so he is my witness to those. I don't have a witness or way to prove the others, except for the fact that all dreams/visions (which I told my dh about beforehand) came true - not all were nice but rather warnings in preparation.

 

So, this is a first for me -- sharing this stuff, but you asked, and I think at soon-to-be 49, I should at least finally stand up and admit that I've had these experiences and let the chips fall where they may. I've decided I need to get brave and stand up for God rather than cowering; afraid of what others will think or label me crazy.

 

I know there is a God because He has shown himself to me.

[countrygal]

I don't know if it's possible to 'know' without Scriptures. It's God's Word, what he GAVE us so we can know what he wants us to know. Therefore, read the book of Job. Read it. It is about a Godly man whom God allowed satan to curse and have bad things happen to him. He questions God and his friends rebuke him saying "if you were only good enough, etc.. this wouldn't have happened to you." In chapter 38 God replies:

 

38 Then the Lord spoke to Job out of the storm. He said:

 

² “Who is this that obscures my plans

with words without knowledge?

³ Brace yourself like a man;

I will question you,

and you shall answer me.

 

⁴ “Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?

Tell me, if you understand.

⁵ Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!

Who stretched a measuring line across it?

⁶ On what were its footings set,

or who laid its cornerstone—

⁷ while the morning stars sang together

and all the angels^[a] shouted for joy?

 

⁸ “Who shut up the sea behind doors

when it burst forth from the womb,

⁹ when I made the clouds its garment

and wrapped it in thick darkness,

¹⁰ when I fixed limits for it

and set its doors and bars in place,

¹¹ when I said, ‘This far you may come and no farther;

here is where your proud waves halt’?

 

¹² “Have you ever given orders to the morning,

or shown the dawn its place,

¹³ that it might take the earth by the edges

and shake the wicked out of it?

¹⁴ The earth takes shape like clay under a seal;

its features stand out like those of a garment.

¹⁵ The wicked are denied their light,

and their upraised arm is broken.

 

¹⁶ “Have you journeyed to the springs of the sea

or walked in the recesses of the deep?

¹⁷ Have the gates of death been shown to you?

Have you seen the gates of the deepest darkness?

¹⁸ Have you comprehended the vast expanses of the earth?

Tell me, if you know all this.

 

¹⁹ “What is the way to the abode of light?

And where does darkness reside?

²⁰ Can you take them to their places?

Do you know the paths to their dwellings?

²¹ Surely you know, for you were already born!

You have lived so many years!

 

²² “Have you entered the storehouses of the snow

or seen the storehouses of the hail,

²³ which I reserve for times of trouble,

for days of war and battle?

²⁴ What is the way to the place where the lightning is dispersed,

or the place where the east winds are scattered over the earth?

²⁵ Who cuts a channel for the torrents of rain,

and a path for the thunderstorm,

²⁶ to water a land where no one lives,

an uninhabited desert,

²⁷ to satisfy a desolate wasteland

and make it sprout with grass?

²⁸ Does the rain have a father?

Who fathers the drops of dew?

²⁹ From whose womb comes the ice?

Who gives birth to the frost from the heavens

³⁰ when the waters become hard as stone,

when the surface of the deep is frozen?

 

³¹ “Can you bind the chains^[b] of the Pleiades?

Can you loosen Orion’s belt?

³² Can you bring forth the constellations in their seasons^[c]

or lead out the Bear^[d] with its cubs?

³³ Do you know the laws of the heavens?

Can you set up God’s^[e] dominion over the earth?

 

³⁴ “Can you raise your voice to the clouds

and cover yourself with a flood of water?

³⁵ Do you send the lightning bolts on their way?

Do they report to you, ‘Here we are’?

³⁶ Who gives the ibis wisdom^[f]

or gives the rooster understanding?^[g]

³⁷ Who has the wisdom to count the clouds?

Who can tip over the water jars of the heavens

³⁸ when the dust becomes hard

and the clods of earth stick together?

 

³⁹ “Do you hunt the prey for the lioness

and satisfy the hunger of the lions

⁴⁰ when they crouch in their dens

or lie in wait in a thicket?

⁴¹ Who provides food for the raven

when its young cry out to God

and wander about for lack of food?

 

 

Lee Strobel was once an atheist, set out to disprove the Bible using historical documents (and to disprove his wife's new conversion to faith!) and became a Christian in the process! Two books of his may be of help: 'The Case for Faith' (deals with all the 'tough' questions like Why is their suffering?) and 'The Case for Christ'.

 

Also, to doubt doesn't mean you don't believe or have turned your back on God. Pray and READ His word. He will sustain you. God doesn't call the prepared. He prepares the called. All the people in the Bible had great flaws and God used them, and their trials, to prove His exsistence and love and justice and glory. I'm sorry that you may be suffering and going through hard times. Hang on to God.

 

God understands because He sent His Son to be on Earth with us, to suffer and die. He has gone through it, just for you. Talk to Him. Read His Words. Someway He will answer.

[countrygal]

I would like to add that we have finite minds and understanding, so we can't comprehend why the world is the way it is. With that I find great hope and peace, then comes faith.

[DianeW88]

This is how I know God exists and what our lives mean now and after our death. I'm LDS, and so this resource obviously reflects my beliefs, but there is a little video about halfway down the page under the heading "When Bad Things Happen", that isn't specifically LDS, although it is Christian in content, that you might find helpful. http://mormon.org/plan-of-happiness Feel free to ask questions if you have any.

[Anne in CA]

I have had spiritual experiences all my like that could not be explained by emotional imbalance. I have dreams that happen later, no, not deja vu, dreams that have happened. I have felt led to pray for people that I barely knew that turned out to need prayer at that moment. There are more things than that, but ultimately to loosely quote Ravi Zacharias and C.S. Lewis, I hunger, and there is food, I thirst and there is water, I need to breath and there is air. So if I feel like I need to live for forever, and that there is much more to life than the things I can see, of course I will live forever and experience things I cannot currently see. It is logical that every other intuition/ need that I have is real, so must be the things I feel I need to complete my existence.

[MrsMe]

Two things:First, I wasn't asking about a specific faith practice...hence specific scriptures being a moot point. Second, I didn't say that I know he doesn't.

 

My answer didn't come out the way it sounded. Sorry. It's hard to relay a question via words without it being construed another way. Oops.

[Juniper]

My answer didn't come out the way it sounded. Sorry. It's hard to relay a question via words without it being contrued another way. Oops.

 

Got it! No worries ;) I do thank you for taking the time to reply...both times. :)

[sewingmama]

This is how I know God exists and what our lives mean now and after our death. I'm LDS, and so this resource obviously reflects my beliefs, but there is a little video about halfway down the page under the heading "When Bad Things Happen", that isn't specifically LDS, although it is Christian in content, that you might find helpful. http://mormon.org/plan-of-happiness Feel free to ask questions if you have any.

 

 

See I read this and it seems like it's a plan for regular people living regular,typical lives but where is the plan for those who suffer things we can't comprehend. Why are my three children given a fairly safe life with love and food and warm beds and other children are given a life in a Russian orphanage where they live in a crib and are never spoken too and weigh 10 pounds at 6 years old. Where is their chance to "to learn and grow and serve and find happiness ? What about a 2 yo who is abused all their life and then finally beaten to death. Why wasn't that child sent to a home of an infertile couple who would have loved it? I have plenty of room here for a few extra children who might otherwise be born into horrible circumstances -except I'm sub-fertile and only ended up with my three.

 

It seems like the LDS plan is only for those with middle class lives. What is the loss of a home or a job or a spouse compared to being tortured to death or blown to bits like the people of Syria. I was watching a documentary the other day where a 10 yo boy was weeping because his friend had just been shot to death and he kept crying out "Where is the world, when are they coming to help us" and yet the world is not coming to help him and he continues to suffer and suffer. Where is this kids plan of happiness? How does he get to find joy and meaning when all he sees is pointless deaths.

 

It seems to me that God is very selective of who he answers and cares about.

[Guest]

I think the site was down all day yesterday(maybe it was just me?) So I am just now getting to all the answers. But, I would still like to know about the Bible.? How do we know that it isn't something just make up? Take away scripture and???????(Or not just the Bible, but any form of the Bible). How do we really know that was written by disciples? The answers given are interesting. As far as creation, why does there need to be a "creator"? How do we know that all of this has not been here for billions of years, and life just happened. As in scientific, not creator. And doesn't anyone find it strange that we think we are the only ones who exist on earth, with ALL the galaxies around us? We cannot be the only life forms. Can we? When we die, does anyone think it is like before we are born? Just nothing. Try to remember before you were born. You can't. I am struggling with that. I would hate to think that it is like it is before we are born. And do any of you think we only have lived once? In the billions of years, we have only had ONE chance at living? I have so many questions I could fill up a whole page. (Sorry to hijack the OP questions)

 

 

Dancer, I don't mind giving a shot at replying to those questions, but I'm worried the thread will take a turn the OP does not desire. If you want to start a thread about these things, I will reply. I have no brilliant answers you've never heard before, but I do have thoughts about those questions. :)