How much do you care about Common Core and other national standards for education

[dirty ethel rackham]

Poll to follow.

 

So, how much do you care about the Common Core and national standards like Next Generation Science Standards?

 

I went to a homeschool science educator workshop at a local national laboratory known for its outreach to the education community. This was a pilot program and was supposed to be about helping homeschool parents in the area learn how to improve science education in their homes.

 

Well, the first hour was lots of educational gibberish on standards, common core, lesson objectives. (I was somewhat familiar with this stuff as I had been an education major for a year while in college, but switched out.) I had no idea that the room was going to have librarians as well. When she asked a question, I talked about how science is done in a more organic way - more discovery, more part of everyday life. She then insisted on how important these standards and documents were because we might put our kids in school and then where would they be? She gave a long presentation on STEM and how important it is, but she seemed really nebulous on how she described it. Most of what she said, after decifering the gibberish, seemed like common sense. After the break, we were supposed to go for a glorified nature walk (in really icky weather and I was not prepared because I didn't read the fine print.) Then she showed her new favorite curriculum; I wasn't terribly impressed - pages and pages of standards and objectives, but really light on content. The student booklet was laughable in its appeal. I could have gotten more mileage out of The Evolution of Calpurnia Tate and a few rabbit trails than out of this pricy "curriculum."

 

Needless to say, I was sorely disappointed. I was hoping to see homeschool friendly materials, classes offered to homeschoolers using their sophisticated labs, etc. But I felt cheated. I had rearranged my schedule and inconvenienced several people to attend this thing. I ended up skipping out of the nature walk claiming an urgent family matter.

 

Anyway, am I out of line to not appreciate this?

[Carrie12345]

I voted somewhat important. More because I think it's a reasonable idea (in theory, at least) for public schools when it's normal for families to move around.

 

Personally, I like to have a sense of benchmarks even if I don't choose to follow them.

[eternalknot]

I voted that I had no idea what Common Core was/is.

 

I have neices and nephews the same ages as my kids, so that's how I stay on top of what my kids' schooled peers are doing. I do see the value in having some idea of these things, and I do loosely plan my own school with them in mind. We homeschool from year to year, and I'm not opposed to sending my kids to school so I try to keep them in the general vicinity as their schooled peers.

[Farrar]

Ugh. This is why education professionals get laughed at most of the time. I went to a lot of in service hours as a teacher... barf. Either it's nonsense like that - standards, standards, multiple choice testing, worksheet, standards, differentiated education to meet standards, education speak, blah blah blah - or it's nonsense that's all loosey goosey - just go with the flow, testing is wrong, let's talk about how we all feel about these things and get kids to write more poetry and take more nature walks and be more adorable.

 

I voted that I don't care about the Common Core. I'm vaguely familiar with it. I do think checking in with benchmarks matters, but there are lots of possibilities for what you use and I think checking for progress is more important. Particularly for science and history, I find that it's just so subjective that I really don't care much at all. For reading and math, there are many different possibilities.

 

In the situation you describe, it's just pathetic that they spent time that they could have been showing you real teaching strategies and methods on trying to convince a bunch of homeschoolers to document lesson plans by Common Core standards or something. Lame.

[NittanyJen]

I think the theory is a good idea for public schools-- kids move around more often than they stay put (a kid who never moves in 12 years of education these days is a relative novelty) so having some common ground on what is taught in each grade and in what order would be vastly helpful in that sense.

 

I believe the common core has no relevance to my particular brand of homeschooling, as we far outstrip what the schools are doing in any given year, and a) we are not planning to return to public schools and b) the common core plan as it stands is extremely disorganized and still lacks the rigor of a solid classical curriculum. Although a repeating set of 3 cycles of a 4 sets of history does not define "classical" it is a nice model, and makes more sense than teaching unrelated bits from across all geography and all time periods every year so that students have no mental organization of how anything relates to past or contemporaneous events, and the sciences are neither taught in-depth nor in a logically integrated fashion, but simply scattershot.

 

We'll keep our schedule, which not only seems to make sense, but hopefully builds a scaffold that helps our kids make connections to the things that they learn, both within and across disciplines, from year to year, quite naturally. I just don't see those connections in the common core.

 

I wish the theory behind the common core was more well considered-- perhaps they should read TWTM???

[Jpoy85]

I looked at them and that was about it. I dont care beyond that. :001_smile:

[pageta]

I would suggest Building Foundations of Scientific Understanding. It is very homeschool like in that it is creative and encourages rabbit trails like you describe. At the same time, he shows how you ARE covering the things in the Common Core. He has a set of three books covering K-2, 3-5, 6-8. You could kill two birds with one stone using something like that as a guideline.

[regentrude]

I don't give a fig.

I approach it form the other end: as a college instructor, I know what my students need to have learned to be successful. I teach physics at an engineering school, so I know what STEM skills a student needs. I have not found anything professional education researchers come up with to be relevant in this respect.

As a somewhat educated person, I know what I would like to see in a well rounded educated person.

These will be my guidelines for my kids' education.

Edited November 8, 2012 by regentrude

[Crimson Wife]

If and when our virtual charter switches from the CA state standards to Common Core, I suppose I will have to pay minimal attention to them.

 

Up until this year, I have completely ignored the CA state standards for science and social studies because we follow the 4 year classical rotation. DD will have to take the STAR science test this spring in 5th so I've signed her up for a 3 class review course that a local science museum puts on. She probably doesn't even need it, but it's my concession to the charter since they've turned a blind eye to us not following the official sequence of topics.

 

English and math I do glance over the standards but it's mostly to figure out how to log the work my kids do in language that mirrors that of the standards.

[OrganicAnn]

I also think the theory is good, but I doubt the execution would be. Also I think that the more organic incorporation of science (and other STEM) subjects could potentially teach the common core just as well or better than a standardized (suck all life out of it standardized version of the common core).

 

The idea of STEM is that the results is more people who can go into STEM jobs. I don't know about you, but the real scientists I know spend a lot of time doing their own research and thinking up ideas and doing little and big experiments and try and failing. Hmmm which does that some more like?

[FO4UR]

I have a degree in Education, and I don't give the Standards a 2nd look. The Standards are one of the main reasons that I homeschool.;)

 

 

If you want a more organic approach to nature study, study up on Charlotte Mason. Granted, STEM has *boomed* since CM's time and I wouldn't make it the entirety of my science education. Still, I don't think her philosophy on nature study can be topped. I think it's a great loss to have the most natural of curiosities of the child (nature!) be squashed by the over-controlling agenda that we call Standards. blech! (The typical child will far exceed the Standards on their own, if given the time and opportunity to explore and question. The Standards dumb it down!)

[Nart]

Common Core matters if you are ever going to use a textbook that public schools use. Textbook publishers are changing/ reformatting their textbooks to include Common Core Standards so they can sell their textbooks to public schools. For example, many homeschoolers/ after schoolers use Singapore Math Standards Edition. Singapore Math had to update the U.S. version so they could sell Singapore Math in California. The Standard Edition was slightly modified to meet California standards. If it weren't California wouldn't have adopted it and public schools would not be allowed to purchase it.

[Pixjen]

I think it's more important to teach my child to read, do math and THINK. (Of course, we cover other subjects too. :tongue_smilie:) It doesn't matter what standards they use if the student fails at those basic skills. Although I'm not sure how many kids graduate gov. school these days with critical thinking skills. :glare:

[CyndiLJ]

Common Core Standards are a great idea, if every kid were the same.

 

Since every child is different, they are useless.

 

The first week I decided to homeschool I looked at them, feeling this was what I needed to live by. That ended by the time I got to the bottom of the 5th grade list. It was clear that a lot of it was ridiculous...my child needs to do this or that in this grade, or that in another grade. I never looked at them again.

 

We work through skills using decent materials, which means everything will eventually be covered, regardless of the grade or age. Then there are the things I feel are pointless versus the things they leave out that are very important in my estimation. Sure, using it as very basic framework to check to see if you have forgotten key things isn't a half bad idea, but other than that, toss 'em

 

Cindy

[ScoutTN]

I try to ignore the government whenever possible and this seems like an excellent opportunity! ;)

[Chris in VA]

Ugh. This is why education professionals get laughed at most of the time. I went to a lot of in service hours as a teacher... barf. Either it's nonsense like that - standards, standards, multiple choice testing, worksheet, standards, differentiated education to meet standards, education speak, blah blah blah - or it's nonsense that's all loosey goosey - just go with the flow, testing is wrong, let's talk about how we all feel about these things and get kids to write more poetry and take more nature walks and be more adorable.

 

I voted that I don't care about the Common Core. I'm vaguely familiar with it. I do think checking in with benchmarks matters, but there are lots of possibilities for what you use and I think checking for progress is more important. Particularly for science and history, I find that it's just so subjective that I really don't care much at all. For reading and math, there are many different possibilities.

 

In the situation you describe, it's just pathetic that they spent time that they could have been showing you real teaching strategies and methods on trying to convince a bunch of homeschoolers to document lesson plans by Common Core standards or something. Lame.

 

:iagree:

I love this post.

[melmichigan]

I can say I've read the state standards each year that I have homschooled. I even went so far as to print copies of them before I read them the first year. :smilielol5:They are embarrassing to say the least, and a perfectly good waste of paper. At least now they are in pdf format.

[MissKNG]

I voted somewhat important simply because I report to the state.

[Ellie]

I would care more if the Professionals didn't keep changing their minds on what the "common core" should be, and if the schools which do care were actually turning out well-educated young adults.

[littlebug42]

I accidentally voted What is Common Core when I meant to say I don't care about the common core. It has no impact on my homeschool situation.

[Kathryn]

Don't care one bit. I know what I want my children to have learned by the time I'm done with them.

[momto2Cs]

I voted somewhat important. More because I think it's a reasonable idea (in theory, at least) for public schools when it's normal for families to move around.

 

Personally, I like to have a sense of benchmarks even if I don't choose to follow them.

 

:iagree:

[MamaT]

Not important or relevant to how I educate my dc. After 18 years at this, I know what I want to teach them.

[redsquirrel]

I voted that I don't care. I know what it is, and I even support it in theory. I live in NY and grew up with Regent exams, so I am familiar with the theory and practice of schools in different areas trying to be on the same page working towards the same goal. I am fine with that, for the most part.

 

It isn't something I really think about in my own teaching or feel I should apply to my kids.

 

But

 

I seem to remember reading that the SATs are going to align themselves to the Common Core standards. If that is true, then it is something to keep an eye on when educating a high school student. And, if it is true, it annoys me to no end. It is just one big industrial educational complex!

[TechWife]

I went to a homeschool science educator workshop at a local national laboratory known for its outreach to the education community. This was a pilot program and was supposed to be about helping homeschool parents in the area learn how to improve science education in their homes...

 

Well, the first hour was lots of educational gibberish on standards, common core, lesson objectives. (I was somewhat familiar with this stuff as I had been an education major for a year while in college, but switched out.) I had no idea that the room was going to have librarians as well. When she asked a question, I talked about how science is done in a more organic way - more discovery, more part of everyday life. She then insisted on how important these standards and documents were because we might put our kids in school and then where would they be?

 

I have found that among those who are in training roles within professional education do not have a grasp on what it means to live outside of the one model they are training on. I think the establishment trains the creativity right out of the trainers and then it trickles down into the local schools and good teachers, who love their subject area and want to teach in a way that helps children learn, get discouraged and either change their methodology to whatever they are being told to do or they find another line of work.

 

Then she showed her new favorite curriculum; I wasn't terribly impressed - pages and pages of standards and objectives, but really light on content.

 

Sadly, I doubt she's ever had the opportunity to look at curriculum and peel back the layers in the way that we get to do as we prepare to homeschool our kids. It's sad to see that standards outweigh content.

 

Anyway, am I out of line to not appreciate this?

Not one bit.

I seem to remember reading that the SATs are going to align themselves to the Common Core standards. If that is true, then it is something to keep an eye on when educating a high school student. And, if it is true, it annoys me to no end. It is just one big industrial educational complex!

 

Yes, this is true. The man who headed up the development of the common core standards is now in charge at The College Board, maker of testing materials, notably AP exams and the SAT. He did say he would do this when he accepted the job. I wondered if it means that they will be dumbing down the SAT?

 

Ugh. This is why education professionals get laughed at most of the time. I went to a lot of in service hours as a teacher... barf. Either it's nonsense like that - standards, standards, multiple choice testing, worksheet, standards, differentiated education to meet standards, education speak, blah blah blah - or it's nonsense that's all loosey goosey - just go with the flow, testing is wrong, let's talk about how we all feel about these things and get kids to write more poetry and take more nature walks and be more adorable.

 

In the situation you describe, it's just pathetic that they spent time that they could have been showing you real teaching strategies and methods on trying to convince a bunch of homeschoolers to document lesson plans by Common Core standards or something. Lame.

 

I read (I think in Liping Ma's book) about teachers who go to training and actually study the subject that they teach in that training. That sounds wonderful to me! I really wish there would be a homeschool conference like that (I know, old topic).

 

Common Core Standards are a great idea, if every kid were the same.

 

Since every child is different, they are useless.

I have friend who has been working on the common core for her county. She says that she thinks they will last six weeks until everyone figures out that they can't teach with a one size fits all methodology. After that, she said that she thinks the teachers will just stuff them in a drawer only to be dusted off to complete documentation.

 

 

I would care more if the Professionals didn't keep changing their minds on what the "common core" should be, and if the schools which do care were actually turning out well-educated young adults.

:iagree:

[acablue]

Not important. I can see how they could be useful for math, but apart from that, I don't see the point.

[Violet Crown]

 

Yes, this is true. The man who headed up the development of the common core standards is now in charge at The College Board, maker of testing materials, notably AP exams and the SAT. He did say he would do this when he accepted the job. I wondered if it means that they will be dumbing down the SAT?

 

 

I admit to being startled to see hostility to David Coleman here. His views on education seem pretty well-matched to SWB's, and personally I'm enthusiastic about even the lurching progress towards something like a content-rich, liberal education being made available in the public schools.

[TechWife]

I admit to being startled to see hostility to David Coleman here. His views on education seem pretty well-matched to SWB's, and personally I'm enthusiastic about even the lurching progress towards something like a content-rich, liberal education being made available in the public schools.

 

I'm confused - I haven't seen any hostile comments. I certainly didn't intend mine to be, I'm just stating the facts and something I've wondered.

[Violet Crown]

I'm confused - I haven't seen any hostile comments. I certainly didn't intend mine to be, I'm just stating the facts and something I've wondered.

 

My apologies for misinterpreting. It was, specifically, the wondering if Coleman's move to the College Board would mean the "dumbing down" of the SAT; and generally, the tenor of (some of) the comments about the Common Core standards. I really would have thought that classical homeschoolers would have been supportive of Coleman's vision, even if it's likely to be very imperfectly implemented.

 

Robert Pondiscio on the Common Core standards.

Edited November 9, 2012 by Sharon in Austin

[TechWife]

My apologies for misinterpreting. It was, specifically, the wondering if Coleman's move to the College Board would mean the "dumbing down" of the SAT; and generally, the tenor of the comments about the Common Core standards. I really would have thought that classical homeschoolers would have been supportive of Coleman's vision, even if it's likely to be very imperfectly implemented.

My difficulties lie not with Coleman, but with the Common Core. I'll try to explain my thinking below, maybe that will help you understand a bit about where I'm coming from when it comes to the Common Core. While I do only speak for myself, I know that I am not the only homeschool parent who has these same concerns.

 

One difficulty with the common core is that it sets a ceiling - this is what you have to know and no more. Many students will struggle to reach that ceiling, while many others are already operating well above the ceiling. Like it or not, the test is on the ceiling, not on anything above it. This ceiling is supposed to be what demonstrates that all high school students will be ready for college when they graduate. Given the wide array of abilities that are present in any population, it is logical (at least to me) that the ceiling won't be very high, otherwise there would be those who couldn't possibly reach it. This is where the "dumbing down" phraseology comes into play. If the ceiling of such a standard is low and the "gold standard" of the SAT is adjusted so that all who pass high school will do well on the SAT, then it stands to reason that the SAT would have to be less difficult than it is presently. At the same time, the opportunities for those who operate above the ceiling are expected to dry up as funding is re-directed towards those who need help reaching a ceiling that is perhaps too high for them.

 

Another difficulty with the common core is that it's goal is to homogenize the education of Americans. To have everyone know the same facts and think in the same way is not education to me. Professional educators often say that the goal of education is to teach students to think, yet they persist on testing a defined set of information in a limited manner. Most of us who homeschool are very individualistic thinkers - we chose to homeschool because the status quo wasn't acceptable to us, whatever our individual reason were. It is due to that sense of individuality, the ability to tailor a students education to their needs & interests, that many of us are not at all interested in the Common Core.

 

As one who has read a few common core plans, I have some serious concerns because the focus is on the standard, not the content. The plans go into great detail about which standard/goal/objective is being met, yet, for example, discourages teachers from giving background information on the Gettysburg Address and encourages them to tell the student that they may not understand it because it is hard?

 

I also expect all of the remaining underfunded technical education and fine arts departments to all but disappear, and that would be a tragedy. I, for one, would love to know that a future mechanical engineer has a grasp on how a variety of machines actually work before he/she decides to dedicate the remainder of education to the study of their design and functions. The arts are invaluable - they help you see things in a different light than you may have otherwise. They are vital to developing a sense of community as well as one's place in history. If arts education disappears, in 15 years we will see even more decreased funding for dance troupes, art museums and symphonies because no one will have been taught to appreciate it. What you don't appreciate, you don't financially support.

 

Phew, I'm worn out, but I'm going to quickly move this over to my blog so that I don't loose it. :tongue_smilie:

[Bearcat]

nm

[Bearcat]

My difficulties lie not with Coleman, but with the Common Core. I'll try to explain my thinking below, maybe that will help you understand a bit about where I'm coming from when it comes to the Common Core. While I do only speak for myself, I know that I am not the only homeschool parent who has these same concerns.

 

One difficulty with the common core is that it sets a ceiling - this is what you have to know and no more. Many students will struggle to reach that ceiling, while many others are already operating well above the ceiling. Like it or not, the test is on the ceiling, not on anything above it. This ceiling is supposed to be what demonstrates that all high school students will be ready for college when they graduate. Given the wide array of abilities that are present in any population, it is logical (at least to me) that the ceiling won't be very high, otherwise there would be those who couldn't possibly reach it. This is where the "dumbing down" phraseology comes into play. If the ceiling of such a standard is low and the "gold standard" of the SAT is adjusted so that all who pass high school will do well on the SAT, then it stands to reason that the SAT would have to be less difficult than it is presently. At the same time, the opportunities for those who operate above the ceiling are expected to dry up as funding is re-directed towards those who need help reaching a ceiling that is perhaps too high for them.

 

Another difficulty with the common core is that it's goal is to homogenize the education of Americans. To have everyone know the same facts and think in the same way is not education to me. Professional educators often say that the goal of education is to teach students to think, yet they persist on testing a defined set of information in a limited manner. Most of us who homeschool are very individualistic thinkers - we chose to homeschool because the status quo wasn't acceptable to us, whatever our individual reason were. It is due to that sense of individuality, the ability to tailor a students education to their needs & interests, that many of us are not at all interested in the Common Core.

 

As one who has read a few common core plans, I have some serious concerns because the focus is on the standard, not the content. The plans go into great detail about which standard/goal/objective is being met, yet, for example, discourages teachers from giving background information on the Gettysburg Address and encourages them to tell the student that they may not understand it because it is hard?

 

I also expect all of the remaining underfunded technical education and fine arts departments to all but disappear, and that would be a tragedy. I, for one, would love to know that a future mechanical engineer has a grasp on how a variety of machines actually work before he/she decides to dedicate the remainder of education to the study of their design and functions. The arts are invaluable - they help you see things in a different light than you may have otherwise. They are vital to developing a sense of community as well as one's place in history. If arts education disappears, in 15 years we will see even more decreased funding for dance troupes, art museums and symphonies because no one will have been taught to appreciate it. What you don't appreciate, you don't financially support.

 

Phew, I'm worn out, but I'm going to quickly move this over to my blog so that I don't loose it. :tongue_smilie:

:iagree:

You said it in a more thoughtful and less flying off the handle sort of way than I did. :001_smile:

[Alphabetika]

I try to ignore the government whenever possible and this seems like an excellent opportunity! ;)

 

Why must you live so far away from me? Can you please come west? :D

[GWOB]

Honestly? I don't even kinda care what the Common Core Standards recommend. I am raising 3 individuals, not 3 robots. I have to live with these little adults until I die. I plan on having real conversations with these people on my death bed. I am charged by God with teaching my little people how to think and learn. The government has no business in my teaching. And this is coming from a Christian, card-carrying Democrat;).