How many 10s are in 436?

[slackermom]

I am curious to know if you would say "3" or "43" if you had to answer this question?

 

DD's 3rd grade teacher marked her answer as incorrect, and it's just the latest in a series of disagreements over answers (and properly "showing her work"). DD is getting really frustrated with 3rd grade public school math (TERC Investigations)!

[WishboneDawn]

43.

[cindergretta]

It depends - is the lesson one about place value and asking for the number how many "in the tens column" or how many total tens there are in 436. My initial reply would be 43. But one of my dc is currently working on place value so then my mind jumped to the 3.

[Embassy]

43.

 

I think a child answering 43 is showing a greater understanding of place value. If the question was "what number is in the tens place?" then the correct answer would be 3. Which way did she answer?

Edited October 16, 2012 by Wehomeschool

[PhotoGal]

For how many tens, I would say 43. If they asked what is in the tens place, I would say 3.

 

Then again, if it was a series of questions like how many hundreds? how many tens? how many ones? Then I guess I might answer 3 to how many tens. I guess it depends on how I am interpreting the question.

 

As a teacher I would mark either correct because I know what the student is thinking.

[WishboneDawn]

For how many tens, I would say 43. If they asked what is in the tens place, I would say 3.

 

Then again, if it was a series of questions like how many hundreds? how many tens? how many ones? Then I guess I might answer 3 to how many tens. I guess it depends on how I am interpreting the question.

 

As a teacher I would mark either correct because I know what the student is thinking.

 

That's the key, how the question was asked.

[crazyforlatin]

Is that the exact wording of the question? If it is, I would say 43, because that's what I thought before clicking on the thread.

 

SM usually asks specifically, using such words as place value or the value of the 3 digit.

[Donna]

I thought 43 before I clicked on the thread. I agree it depends if this was the exact wording of the question or not.

[dansamy]

43.6 :)

[ELITEANDLOVINGIT]

436

 

I think it is subjective (no pun intended). If they are working on place value and that is a known, then the answer is 3.

 

If they were working on decimals (not likely in third grade public school) then the answer is indeed 43.6

 

If they are just looking for an approximate value that includes 10s then 43 would be appropriate.

 

We have struggled with this frequently (if not daily), but ultimately when they get to a real world test they have to be able to provide the "right" answer. This is the conversation I focus on with Sarah at home...we have the "right" answer which is completely subjective and we have endless possibilities which is the reality in most cases, particularly with literature.

 

These types of situations are the reason I home-school my daughter now.

[Tracy]

43.6 :)

 

:iagree:This was my original answer, but I could see how a younger child would answer 43. If I asked my 7yo, I am sure she would answer 43.

[PhotoGal]

43.6 :)

 

:lol:

[theYoungerMrsWarde]

43.6 :)

 

:D I would say 43.

[slackermom]

Thanks for answering. I like 43.6 myself. :tongue_smilie:

 

The question was phrased just like I wrote it: How many 10s are in 436? DD wrote 43. The teacher crossed it out and wrote 3.

 

There were a variety of questions before and after, such as: How many 100s are in 436? What is 20 more than 436? What is 50 less than 436? There was no reference to place value, or "in the tens column" or such.

 

It's hard to figure out what they are covering in class. Investigations seems a bit random and vague.

[EKS]

In fall of third grade in a typical public school classroom, the answer is going to be 3. However, the teacher should be able to understand that the answers 43 and 43.6 are correct as well.

[Χά�ων]

It depends - is the lesson one about place value and asking for the number how many "in the tens column" or how many total tens there are in 436. My initial reply would be 43. But one of my dc is currently working on place value so then my mind jumped to the 3.

 

This.

[lmrich]

3

 

I know public school mathbooks.

[WishboneDawn]

Thanks for answering. I like 43.6 myself. :tongue_smilie:

 

The question was phrased just like I wrote it: How many 10s are in 436? DD wrote 43. The teacher crossed it out and wrote 3.

 

There were a variety of questions before and after, such as: How many 100s are in 436? What is 20 more than 436? What is 50 less than 436? There was no reference to place value, or "in the tens column" or such.

 

It's hard to figure out what they are covering in class. Investigations seems a bit random and vague.

 

Ah. In that case I'd say your child's teacher is a dork. :tongue_smilie:

[WishboneDawn]

3

 

I know public school mathbooks.

 

:lol:

[AdventureMoms]

If I were answering in a test in public school 3rd grade, 3. I only say that because I'm really good at the test-taking game though, and I know that's what they want, not because it's the best answer. With no context, I'd say 43.6 is the most precise answer. If I were answering for some of my trickier math professors in college I'd give that one because I'd know they were playing a game. If I were the teacher I'd accept 3, 43, 44, or 43.6, especially if the student showed any understanding of why they got that answer.

[8filltheheart]

I am curious to know if you would say "3" or "43" if you had to answer this question?

 

DD's 3rd grade teacher marked her answer as incorrect, and it's just the latest in a series of disagreements over answers (and properly "showing her work"). DD is getting really frustrated with 3rd grade public school math (TERC Investigations)!

 

Has the teacher been asked why it was marked wrong? I ask b/c when teachers are grading a stack of papers, they may not even look at the question/answer in an attempt to understand the answer. More than likely they are just looking at answers as just isolated numbers on a pg.

 

The scarier thought is that the teacher doesn't know that there are 43 tens. :tongue_smilie:

 

Regardless, I congratulate your dd's grasp of math. She should be proud of herself.

[2smartones]

... when teachers are grading a stack of papers, they may not even look at the question/answer in an attempt to understand the answer. More than likely they are just looking at answers as just isolated numbers on a pg.

 

Yes. This.

 

I'd talk to the teacher if this sort of thing is a habit and/or it affects a child's overall grade for the class (wonder how many other kids would've missed it). If it's isolated and doesn't really matter to the end grade, I would probably pick a different battle.

[Black-eyed Suzan]

In fall of third grade in a typical public school classroom, the answer is going to be 3. However, the teacher should be able to understand that the answers 43 and 43.6 are correct as well.

 

:iagree:

[kiwik]

I agree with the teacher being a fork bit she could have been tired and thought it was the how many hundreds question or she meant in the tens column. I would have thought it would click - it's not like she put 4 or something.

[Laura Corin]

Depends on how the question was phrased:

 

- how many tens are there in the tens column? 3

- how many tens are there? 43

 

Laura

[IsabelC]

The teacher shouldn't have crossed out the child's answer. She/he should have marked it correct and told the child yes, there are 43, and another way we can say that is 4 hundreds plus 3 tens.

[Dmmetler]

This is a "3rd grade answer" sort of thing. I've been teaching my DD, ever since her K teacher told me about DD spending 10 minutes picking apart an oral test question, explaining why every single answer choice was partially correct, but wrong for various reasons (all of which were beyond the scope of the kindergarten curriculum), that if a test has a grade level associated with it, they want that grade's answer-the answer a smart kid of that grade/age would know. So, the 3rd grade answer would be 3, because there is a 3 in the 10s place, and once the 40 tens are grouped into 4 hundreds, most 3rd graders aren't going to think of them as being 10s anymore. 43 would actually be more of a Singapore Math 1st grade answer, where they DO sometimes ask you how many total 10s you have before and after regrouping. It wouldn't be 43.6, because that's not a 3rd grade answer since 3rd graders haven't had decimals yet, so that's about a 5th grade answer.

 

This is also helpful, I've discovered, as a social skills activity, because DD needs to understand that her 7 yr old friend in dance class is going to give 7 yr old answers, her friend's 5 yr old little brother is going to give 5 yr old answers, and that such answers aren't wrong and don't need DD to correct them-they're correct for the age/skill level of the child in question, and that DD needs to modulate her language accordingly.

[MissKNG]

In fall of third grade in a typical public school classroom, the answer is going to be 3. However, the teacher should be able to understand that the answers 43 and 43.6 are correct as well.

 

She probably went with what the answer key said and didn't give it any thought at all.

[Embassy]

Am I the only one who asked my kids the "how many 10s are in 436" question?:tongue_smilie: I got 2 different answers.

[southernm]

She probably went with what the answer key said and didn't give it any thought at all.

 

:iagree: I am guessing she didn't even look at the problem, just marked it wrong and moved on. Time for a conference?

[slackermom]

:iagree: I am guessing she didn't even look at the problem, just marked it wrong and moved on. Time for a conference?

 

 

The first parent/teacher conference is at the end of the month. I hope we will be able to focus on how to give DD room to work at her level. By this time last year, DD's 2nd grade teacher had excused her from the regular class homework, and allowed her to work independently on 4th and 5th grade stuff.

 

Over the last couple of years, DD and I have discussed how to figure out the expected response vs how she wants to answer a question. It's just frustrating to her to spend more time on breaking that code than on really learning math. This question seemed so straight forward to DD that she wasn't thinking about an alternate response.

 

The teachers say this math program is supposed to encourage a deep and thorough understanding of math. :glare:

[boscopup]

Am I the only one who asked my kids the "how many 10s are in 436" question?:tongue_smilie: I got 2 different answers.

 

My 8 year old said 43. :D

[Esse Quam Videri]

My 8 year old said 43. :D

 

Same here :-)

[Embassy]

My 8 year old said 43. :D

 

Mine too. My 10 year old said 43.6.

[Esse Quam Videri]

Mine too. My 10 year old said 43.6.

 

Now that's an accurate answer

[Greenmama2]

My 8 year old said 43. :D

Well my 6 year old said 3 but I'd be surprised if her answer is still the same when she gets to third grade age.

[LittleIzumi]

My 7-year-old said 3 but place value is one of her weakest spots.

[mathwonk]

As a 70 year old professional mathematician, with a PhD in math and a 40 year career teaching math in college and graduate school, I would answer 43 to that question, and I prefer that as the most natural answer to the others given here. I understand the answer of 43.6 as well (although to me the question "how many" indicates a whole number answer). Although the answer 3 seems strange to me, and incorrect as far as the stated question goes, I would be delighted to have a child give any answer at all, including 3, that he/she understands and can explain.

 

The answer 3 is correct for the question: how many tens are left over after as many tens as possible are grouped into bunches of ten tens? Or in technical math language, how many tens are there "modulo ten"?

 

(Another way to explain this concept is to ask a child to package 436 bottles as efficiently as possible, using some cases which hold 100 bottles, some cartons which hold 10 bottles, and keeping separate any bottles left over that do not fill a container completely. Then ask how many ten bottle cartons have been used. This is the way I taught place value in my course for elementary school teachers. This also is why it is now called "grouping". of course even this can be confusing if the child proceeds as is natural, by packing the bottles first into ten bottle cartons, and then putting ten full cartons into one case. In that process, he/she may well think that each case still contains 10 cartons, so the answer is again 43.)

 

The answer 43 is correct for the question "how many (whole) tens are there?"

 

The answer 43.6 is correct for the question: "how many tens or fractional parts of tens are there?"

 

I sympathize totally, since you are just beginning the long and painful journey many of us traveled as children through the "educational system", often taught by people who do not understand, know, or think about what they teach, and who are tired and underpaid, and sometimes even resentful of children who are more gifted than they are themselves. Such bright children cause "problems" for dull teachers, who may begin to label the child as "difficult".

 

My point here that it is unimportant what the correct answer is to this question. What matters is that the child not be subjected to arbitrary, unintelligent, and insensitive teaching to the point where the child begins to lose all joy in going to school and to hate learning. the child needs an advocate, and someone with whom they can communicate about learning.

 

I myself was bored and learned little from second grade through high school, and got back the pleasure of learning only in college and graduate school. Try to avoid this for your children.

Edited October 18, 2012 by mathwonk

[Paul493]

Before clicking on the thread I thought 43.

[a27mom]

My automatic answer was 43 as well.

[Mélie]

My 5-year-old said 3, but when I asked him about the other 40, he said "But if you asked my how many ones there are and I said 436, you'd tell me I'm not funny." :lol:

[Greenmama2]

My 7-year-old said 3 but place value is one of her weakest spots.

Ditto lol. I was satisfied with 3 ;)

[Greenmama2]

Although the answer 3 seems strange to me, and incorrect as far as the stated question goes, I would be delighted to have a child give any answer at all, including 3, that he/she understands and can explain.

I loved this :D

[cmb6]

My 8yo said 43.6, as did I. My husband said, "43 whole tens, and 6/10 of another," which I think I prefer.

[SonshineLearner]

It depends - is the lesson one about place value and asking for the number how many "in the tens column" or how many total tens there are in 436. My initial reply would be 43. But one of my dc is currently working on place value so then my mind jumped to the 3.

 

Yup, "Tens Column"... 3.... How many tens?? 43 :)

 

BTW, it may very well be that her teacher has to be shown the importance of wording :) Seriously!! It's like "Ten" and "Tin", hearing the difference isn't always obvious... to everyone :)

[Tracy]

My point here that it is unimportant what the correct answer is to this question. What matters is that the child not be subjected to arbitrary, unintelligent, and insensitive teaching to the point where the child begins to lose all joy in going to school and to hate learning. the child needs an advocate, and someone with whom they can communicate about learning.

 

:iagree:The issue here is not that the teacher marked it wrong, because she has 200 pages per day to correct, and she is just looking to see if the answers match the answer key. The issue is how she handles it when the child calls her on it. Does she praise the child for critical thinking skills and give her the point? Or does she treat the interchange as a burden and interruption to her day?

[kiana]

My 5-year-old said 3, but when I asked him about the other 40, he said "But if you asked my how many ones there are and I said 436, you'd tell me I'm not funny." :lol:

 

Haha!

[*Jen*]

My first thought was 43, DS(7) answered 43 and was able to explain why it was 43. When I asked him what digit was in the tens place he told me 3.

 

:iagree:The issue here is not that the teacher marked it wrong, because she has 200 pages per day to correct, and she is just looking to see if the answers match the answer key. The issue is how she handles it when the child calls her on it. Does she praise the child for critical thinking skills and give her the point? Or does she treat the interchange as a burden and interruption to her day?

 

I think this is the biggest part of the problem. If the teacher doesn't acknowledge her correct thinking then the teacher needs a lesson in test question wording.

[StartingOver]

I would say 43 tens, unless the problem asked for hundreds and tens.

[Rivka]

My daughter said, "I'm not answering some public school problem." :lol:

 

Sorry that's not of more help.