I know virtual schools have been discussed before, but help me with some perspective?

[Halftime Hope]

I have an acquaintance who has enrolled the only child, a middle-schooler, in a state-provided virtual school. Yes, this is one of our state's public-school options. (If it matters, the state considers them public-schoolers.)

 

For the last month there have been posts all over the person's FB page stating that they are homeschooling and so on.

 

I'm having a ridiculously emotional reaction to this. I want to scream, "You are public-schooling at home! Do not call youself a homeschooler." I have said nothing.

 

I think the reason it annoys me is that I put so much more work into planning, teaching, and taking responsibility for assessing, grading, correcting, that it annoys me to have someone else call what they are doing homeschooling when it is not parent-led, not parent-provided, and requires so much less responsibililty and effort.

 

It also annoys me because although I have older students whom I have homeschooled from early on, I also will freely tell people that I outsource some of their subjects. While it's no longer all on my shoulders, I add the role of educational advocate and procurement specialist to the role of college/career counselor, and let me tell ya, that last one alone puts me right back into the "responsibility-on-my-shoulders" category.

 

Help me sort this out, please. And don't throw any tomatoes. I'm honestly trying to figure out why I'm so peeved and whether it's justified, not justified, or somewhere in between.

 

Thank you.

 

ETA: The only other person that I know who is using the state's public virtual school program is using it for a high schooler. In their family, they have homeschooled, private schooled, homeschooled again, and finally, with the last, virtual schooled for a couple of years. They do not call it homeschooling, they'll tell people, "J. 'virtual schools' with NameofProgram."

Edited September 1, 2012 by Valerie(TX)

[Mom2OandE]

Maybe she doesn't understand the difference?

 

We are in our first weeks of homeschooling and when we made the decision to hs we considered doing K12 virtual for dd. It wasn't until we investigated a lot more than we realized it wasn't what we wanted and that we wanted to have the authority in her education and not the ps.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

To me it's still homeschooling. A different form than the one you chose, for sure, but homeschooling nonetheless. You still have the kid home with you all day, you still have to butt heads to make sure the work gets done, you still have to worry about the field trips and "socialization" issues, your whole life and approach to education have changed, etc. I consider unschoolers and relaxed homeschoolers to homeschooling too, and IMO, what your friend is doing is not much different.

[Lady Florida.]

To me it's still homeschooling. A different form than the one you chose, for sure, but homeschooling nonetheless. You still have the kid home with you all day, you still have to butt heads to make sure the work gets done, you still have to worry about the field trips and "socialization" issues, your whole life and approach to education have changed, etc. I consider unschoolers and relaxed homeschoolers to homeschooling too, and IMO, what your friend is doing is not much different.

 

:iagree:

[snowbeltmom]

I think the reason it annoys me is that I put so much more work into planning, teaching, and taking responsibility for assessing, grading, correcting, that it annoys me to have someone else call what they are doing homeschooling when it is not parent-led, not parent-provided, and requires so much less responsibililty and effort.

 

(gently) Just because they are using an online program, I don't think it can be concluded necessarily that it is not parent led.

 

My niece is enrolled in a public online school. She has special needs, and despite the fact that online teachers are available, my brother is her teacher. Granted, my brother does not do as much work as I do during the summer getting prepared for the next year, but imo, he is providing my niece a parent-led education, with just as much responsibilty and effort as me.

[DianeW88]

It's not the same thing to me either.

[Hen]

I am sure she still feels she is homeschooling, since she makes the decisions of how much of the program to use, if another book would work better and/or to stay in the program and she works with the child, answers questions, etc.

 

would you be as much up in arms over a friend using a boxed curriculum like Calvert and following their scope and sequence? Or what about a friend going through a rough patch of illness and using the dvd-school from Abeka?

 

would you feel upset if a friend told you that you don't really homeschool since you outsource 2 or more classes?

 

I feel that quantifying who is a pure homeschooler or not hurts the movement.

 

disclaimer- I use a public charter school, not K12, but pick all my materials and scope/sequence and yeah, it stings to be labeled and uninvited from park days/groups/moms night out.

[mommaduck]

To me it's still homeschooling. A different form than the one you chose, for sure, but homeschooling nonetheless. You still have the kid home with you all day, you still have to butt heads to make sure the work gets done, you still have to worry about the field trips and "socialization" issues, your whole life and approach to education have changed, etc. I consider unschoolers and relaxed homeschoolers to homeschooling too, and IMO, what your friend is doing is not much different.

:iagree:Yes, this falls under a bit of "homeschooling snobbery". Just as people claim unschooling isn't homeschooling, or using an umbrella school isn't homeschooling, etc. My oldest uses a cyber school. Yes, he's considered a public schooler, but a public homeschooler. I still have to stay on top of him, be his advocate, have regular discussions with his supervising instructor, etc. Yes, the planning is done for me, much as when I pick up my teacher's manual from MFW or if someone is using Calvert (this cyber school gives the option of Calvert in the elementary grades). The difference is that it's an option that can help families that are crossing over, feel that their child has moved beyond them in certain subjects, feel overwhelmed, want to homeschool, but can't afford the curricula, etc.

 

Not tomato throwing, but please be encouraging to your friend rather than annoyed. This may just be a first step for her or what works for their life right now.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

...and uninvited from park days/groups/moms night out.

 

Do people actually DO this? :blink:

[amo_mea_filiis.]

When dd was doung cyber, i always said "dd is doing ps at home, and i homeschool ds." Big difference in my opinion. The biggest reason i used a cyber ps was so that dd was at home, and i could get through that transition period with family! She was still a public school student, just didn't attend the local, or brick and mortar, public school.

 

If dd didn't want to do her work, i defaulted to her teacher. Now if dd doesn't want to work, it's all on me.

[Halftime Hope]

This is bright, self-directed child who will, I'm pretty sure, get almost everything needed from the online program. (Parent plans to work full-time from home.)

[Crimson Wife]

I think that "homeschooling" is a general term for any child who is educated at home and is not enrolled in a classroom-based school. There are private homeschools (either single-family or an independent study program of a traditional private school) and public homeschools (virtual charters or independent study programs of district schools). In terms of the public homeschools, it really varies from school to school as to how much responsibility the parent has over curriculum choice, teaching, grading/correcting, and so.

 

I have done both types of homeschooling- private and public. I still choose the curricula, plan the lessons, teach, correct the work, and pretty much do the exact same thing I did before when we were homeschooling as a private school. The main difference is that I can't use the charter stipend to purchase religious materials (but I am free to buy them with my own money), my children have to take the state standardized test (but I had tested with the ITBS even when it wasn't required as a private homeschool), and I have to provide 1 work sample per subject per month. It is still parent-led just not 100% parent-funded.

 

Exclusionary definitions of "homeschooling" as only private homeschools reminds me very much of definitions of "Christian" that purposely exclude certain denominations. :thumbdown:

[EKS]

Exclusionary definitions of "homeschooling" as only private homeschools reminds me very much of definitions of "Christian" that purposely exclude certain denominations. :thumbdown:

 

:iagree:

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

This is bright, self-directed child who will, I'm pretty sure, get almost everything needed from the online program. (Parent plans to work full-time from home.)

 

This doesn't change my opinion at all. It just makes me think that it's great that they can take advantage of this alternative form of schooling. It's still homeschooling to me, just the same way unschooling is. And I know some pretty unschooly unschoolers!

[melissad2]

To me it's still homeschooling. A different form than the one you chose, for sure, but homeschooling nonetheless. You still have the kid home with you all day, you still have to butt heads to make sure the work gets done, you still have to worry about the field trips and "socialization" issues, your whole life and approach to education have changed, etc. I consider unschoolers and relaxed homeschoolers to homeschooling too, and IMO, what your friend is doing is not much different.

 

:iagree:

[Dmmetler]

I do think there's a difference, but not on the labeling side. Rather, it's that we've had four families who were enrolled in K12 virtual academies in our co-op this fall, and two have had to drop co-op because of attendance requirements.The other two dropped K12 in large part BECAUSE they were being told that their kids basically had to be available at the drop of a hat all the time to go online, that work had to be submitted daily and that work submitted at 6:00 was "late" because it was after the school day, and so on. It's not the curriculum-most of the people dropping it like the curriculum, and are tending to go with programs like Oak Meadow that do much of the planning for you-it's the "Public" part of it that demands that your children belong to the school for X hours a day, 180 days a year-yet they also have the same concerns that families who are completely independent do.

 

I outsource some of DD's classes, but even those that she's doing online are a lot more flexible than the VA classes. If DD has to miss a webinar, she can log on and watch it later (although she gets mad at me because she loves the live discussion part of the webinars), and everyone is fine with it. In fact, DD is doing one class where she's doing the assignments and online chats, but none of the live webinars due to a schedule conflict. It's not an issue at all. If the VA kids miss one, they're counted absent, and unexcused absences can cause trouble for them-at minimum, the parent gets and angry e-mail. One of the moms relates that her DD has one day where she has FOUR math classes between her exceptional education program and the regular one. Her daughter is 6 years old. As she says, her 6 yr old would raise a fuss if she were told she had to play with BARBIE for 4 hours in a single day, let alone sit through four online math classes!

 

Basically, it seems like they have all the worst parts of HSing and all the worst parts of PS, with about the only advantage being free materials.

 

In a lot of ways it reminds me of when I was pumping milk for DD because she couldn't nurse. I had all the worst parts of breastfeeding AND formula feeding, but was doing it because it was the only option that I was willing to accept that worked for DD. I think the K12VA families are in the same state. And the last thing I want to do is make those families and parents, who are doing what is working for them, feel as out of place in homeschooling groups as I did in parenting ones every time "how do you feed your baby" came up.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

There is a difference, i think, in using a boxed curric or using an online source where you still choose materials. When dd did connections, all materials were chosen by the school and mailed to us.

 

Ds did the cyber for about 2 months. The only change i made was to use hwt the way it was written instead of the zaner bloser program. However, this change was put in his iep and paid for by the school.

 

I don't see how considering the cyber we used as not homeschooling to be hs snobbery. Dd was not homeschooled last year.

[mommaduck]

I do think there's a difference, but not on the labeling side. Rather, it's that we've had four families who were enrolled in K12 virtual academies in our co-op this fall, and two have had to drop co-op because of attendance requirements.The other two dropped K12 in large part BECAUSE they were being told that their kids basically had to be available at the drop of a hat all the time to go online, that work had to be submitted daily and that work submitted at 6:00 was "late" because it was after the school day, and so on. It's not the curriculum-most of the people dropping it like the curriculum, and are tending to go with programs like Oak Meadow that do much of the planning for you-it's the "Public" part of it that demands that your children belong to the school for X hours a day, 180 days a year-yet they also have the same concerns that families who are completely independent do.

 

I outsource some of DD's classes, but even those that she's doing online are a lot more flexible than the VA classes. If DD has to miss a webinar, she can log on and watch it later (although she gets mad at me because she loves the live discussion part of the webinars), and everyone is fine with it. In fact, DD is doing one class where she's doing the assignments and online chats, but none of the live webinars due to a schedule conflict. It's not an issue at all. If the VA kids miss one, they're counted absent, and unexcused absences can cause trouble for them-at minimum, the parent gets and angry e-mail. One of the moms relates that her DD has one day where she has FOUR math classes between her exceptional education program and the regular one. Her daughter is 6 years old. As she says, her 6 yr old would raise a fuss if she were told she had to play with BARBIE for 4 hours in a single day, let alone sit through four online math classes!

 

Basically, it seems like they have all the worst parts of HSing and all the worst parts of PS, with about the only advantage being free materials.

 

In a lot of ways it reminds me of when I was pumping milk for DD because she couldn't nurse. I had all the worst parts of breastfeeding AND formula feeding, but was doing it because it was the only option that I was willing to accept that worked for DD. I think the K12VA families are in the same state. And the last thing I want to do is make those families and parents, who are really not in a good place, feel as out of place in homeschooling groups as I did in parenting ones every time "how do you feed your baby" came up.

My son's cyber school is set to where he is in independent study. He just has a date that everything must be done by and he needs to log in once a day (any time). Everything is pretty much on his schedule. He volunteers at a clothing closet three times a week and can drop everything to do something else, as long as he finishes by the end of the quarter. If he takes a virtual class, he just has to show up for that class (just like any outsourced class or coop or double dipping at the cc).

 

Cyber schools vary.

[mommaduck]

I don't see how considering the cyber we used as not homeschooling to be hs snobbery. Dd was not homeschooled last year.

It is when someone gets annoyed that someone else considers it such.

[Hen]

Do people actually DO this? :blink:

 

yeah, in our area, they do. I would call up a group and have a nice discussion on the phone about park day, mom activities, field trips and then coldness when I disclosed that we homeschool through a public charter school - which I am honest about and tack on to the end of the "we homeschool" statement to people. I would be told that their group doesn't serve charter school families.

 

I stopped looking for a group after too many of those experiences and we were pretty isolated for many years, still are, but my kids are older, we are more busy and I am not as desperate for friends/fellowship/social things for my kids anymore. I went to one mom's night out without being upfront about my affiliation (though one head-planning mom was a friend and knew) it was a total disaster with a really condescending lecture about my un-christian-ness for being in a charter and a "come to Jesus, all will be forgiven and we will be here for you when you do" plea by one very sweet gal- but it totally infuriated me. That was my last mom's night out ever.

 

I was just dumped by a friend last year, after she began questioning me on how I was able to join an umbrella group so my 9th grader could take a few classes with them (we were independent for her 9th grade year) -when I still had my other kids in a charter. The leader of the group knew this, but approved me anyway. This friend didn't agree with it, I guess and dropped me from FB right after this conversation. Stung/hurt big time.

 

so yeah, to be clear, I don't like being judged much, and I don't like being told I am not a "pure" homeschooler. I do own that I use a public charter school, I do know my kids are classified as public school kids, and I am upfront about it when I discuss homeschooling. I have also helped three families become homeschoolers by introducing them to charter schools- they were too afraid to homeschool on their own, and would not have dared to try it independently. One of those families did go on to be independent.

 

I am on the side of the best education for children, period, whether it is independent homeschooling, charter, online, correspondence or making your local school better. The more parents are empowered to take more responsibility for their children's education the better off everyone is. The more tools parents have to direct their children's education, the better. I think charter schools are a great 'gateway drug' for many families. I am sad that there is a divide in any of this. When we define who is a pure homeschooler, the lines can become more and more narrow and we hurt our own movement.

[ktgrok]

I'm guessing you haven't used these programs. They still require a lot of involvment of the parent. In fact, when we tried a virtual spanish class via our local public charter it was MORE work for me than the Switched on schoolhouse we are using now.

 

If someone uses Oak Meadow, are they not homeschoolers, but private schoolers? If they use some outsourced classes are they only partly homeschooling, and partly private schooling?

 

I don't see why someone that enrolls in the BJU video programs, or Oak Meadow, or Calvert, or whatever, is considered a homeschooler, but if they do the same thing with a government paid for program it isn't homeschooling anymore.

 

Give her a break, get over it, and focus on your own children. Sorry.

[Incognito]

I think that you and your friend are doing very different things, but you are both homeschooling. There is more than one way to skin a cat. The easy way to explain what she is doing is to say homeschooling.

 

We are technically "distance learning", so you wouldn't consider us homeschoolers, but I find and plan out all the cirriculum and teach the kids myself in person, so I do what you do.

 

I think you are getting too worked up about a word, and need to work on letting it go as a useful label, and find a different special label for what you do if it bothers you to share "homeschooling" with others.

[ktgrok]

homeschooling = schooling at home. Public schooling at home, private schooling at home, unschooling at home, classical schooling at home all are under that umbrella of schooling at home.

[Bang!Zoom!]

It's the zip code theory at work. There is no known cure, I'm sorry.

[Mommy22alyns]

I get that they're different, but if someone wants to call themselves a pink elephant, does it really hurt you?

[melissad2]

I get that they're different, but if someone wants to call themselves a pink elephant, does it really hurt you?

 

:iagree:

[Juniper]

homeschooling = schooling at home. Public schooling at home, private schooling at home, unschooling at home, classical schooling at home all are under that umbrella of schooling at home.

 

Yup!

 

Valerie, not sure if this will help in the empathy dept, but if you are still in Texas the entire state government does not think YOU are a homeschool. You, by law, are a private school. At least that is my understanding of Texas law.

Edited September 1, 2012 by Juniper

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Child does not go to brick and mortar school.

Child studies at home, overseen by parent.

 

I don't get what's so hard about this. It's schooling at home, so it's homeschooling.

 

You have to go clear 'round the barn and gather a troop of naysayers to really pull together a reason to dislike these families. Usually it seems to be instigated by HSLDA through fear-mongering.

 

Why let others convince you (general you) to see anyone as an enemy? Why let someone else lead you in seeing them as imposters or threats?

 

Surely nobody knows better than a homeschooler how different children and families are in the time that the child is learning at home instead of going away to school every day. I don't see any reason for withholding support other than meanness.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

I get that they're different, but if someone wants to call themselves a pink elephant, does it really hurt you?

 

:iagree: I try not to get worked up over what people want to call themselves. Dh proudly claims that he's Jewish, but I can answer many more questions about his religion than he can because I actually pay attention at the services at the synagogue, and actually read the stuff my children bring home from Sunday school. But he can say he's Jewish if he wants.

 

I have a couple of friends who claim to be bisexual, but have only been in same sex relationships. What do I care if they SAY they're bisexual.

 

I understand that you feel like you are doing more work than this other homeschooling parent, but to me it's like arguing who does more work- women who work outside the home or stay at home mothers. It's all completely subjective.

[eight_gregorys]

Don't many families use K12 independently, too? Those that do are still considered homeschoolers...so what's the difference? Do you feel the same if someone uses K12 indepentently? I don't mean to be snooty....I just wanted to show how I think about.

 

I know the state pays for it...that would be the only significant difference. We have done both. The year we were part of a virtual charter was by far the most stressful. We had 10 hour school days many days. I didn't plan like I normally would have, but it was still a lot of work.

 

I have also been in the situation that a pp mentioned. I have homeschoolers totally exclude me because we are members of public charter. I choose the curriculum and we do what I decide at the charter we are with now, but we are funded by the state. I understand the difference. I don't understand why groups would purposely not include families looking for support. The group we are part of is mostly charter school families....which thankfully are in abundance here. Otherwise, we would feel really left out.

[Halftime Hope]

It's the zip code theory at work. There is no known cure, I'm sorry.

 

What do you mean? Zip code theory?

[catz]

To me it's still homeschooling. A different form than the one you chose, for sure, but homeschooling nonetheless. You still have the kid home with you all day, you still have to butt heads to make sure the work gets done, you still have to worry about the field trips and "socialization" issues, your whole life and approach to education have changed, etc. I consider unschoolers and relaxed homeschoolers to homeschooling too, and IMO, what your friend is doing is not much different.

 

:iagree: Honestly, I know many people using or have used virtual online and at the end of the day they end up working harder than the regular homeschoolers I know because they have to be in touch with a 3rd party constantly. I personally don't do a ton of planning. I am cramming some in at the end of the summer here - almost everything I use is open and go. My kids are ahead, so we take many liberties with rabbit trails, etc. And it actually virtual online might not look more different than another homeschooler to each other. Feels like snobbery to me too. I personally think parents having many options are a good thing.

 

My oldest at 11 does 90% of his homeschooling independently, so maybe we aren't homeschoolers either?

[meggie]

I'm saying this as nice as I can. You need to stop worrying about what she's doing. Who the heck cares what she calls herself or how much work you are putting into planning and organizing, blah blah blah? It comes off as high horsey and that type of behavior always comes back to bite you in the behind when someone else chooses to look down on you. :grouphug:

[justLisa]

So it sounds like you are annoyed because she is calling herself something you call YOURself and YOU don't think she has a right to.

 

Everyone has the right to call themselves whatever they want. You can still have your own ideas. You just don't have to label others publicly. Keep it to yourself. Unless of course you want to offend this person, but nothing good can come of that. Unless it makes you feel better to offend people, and I'm sure that is not what you want to do.

 

And you know I get tired of this argument. I mean, *I* signed up for one of those one year. I hated it but that's besides the point. I didn't know if I could do it or not. It made me realize I can homeschool. And yes, I mean YOUR definition aka doing all of the planning myself. Often times these virtual schools are at least what people need to get started.

[KnitWit]

I didn't read any other posts, so maybe I'm not alone in this but, I think differently on this whole subject. I think that all forms of academic education are just an assortment of *tools* and we choose which tools work best for which kids at any given point in their lives. Any parent who is involved with their child and who makes a decision based upon the needs of their child/family instead of going with the *herd* (and this applies to ANY type of education...I know people who only homeschool because they don't want to be judged as unfit parents by their so-called *friends*) is hands-on and leading their family.

 

That is just my humble opinion.

 

I think we all need to be supportive of each other as parents *period*.

[Bang!Zoom!]

The zip code theory back story is no longer available; but it was a historic conversation about who is allowed to be called what.

 

The poster which became legendary used the statement: "you aren't even in the same zip code as a real homeschooler.."

[Halftime Hope]

And the opinions expressed in the OP are exactly why I only stick to generic subjects on this forum. My oldest uses FLVS, but to say that I do nothing teacher-wise is false. He gets the lessons, he asks for my help. I explain, help, read over things, etc. The only time he contacts his teachers is when there is a question pertaining to the specifics of how they want something done, or when they need to do an assessment. He would rather ask me for help than to call his teachers.

 

First, I admitted that I felt my emotions about this were excessive. I asked for perspective. I do appreciate people's input on the topic, and I have noted that IRL I have chosen to keep my silence on this. I have put my acquaintance's feelings above making any kind of a statament on the topic.

 

Second, it is the family's expectation, stated publicly, that they are minimally involved. I should have spelled it out more clearlly when I stated that the parent at home intends to continue to work full time from home, but that is the least of the comments that have been made indicating a level of parental involvement different from what you and I expect.

 

For me, here the heart of the matter: some people using public virtual schools are taking a long-established term (homeschooling) and adding a definition that flies in the face of some of the possible reasons for independently homeschooling in the first place. You can see how that would make some of us who have lived by the long-accepted definition uncomfortable.

 

Same thing with people scratching their heads at the re-definition of natural childbirth to mean anything short of having a c-section, when it used to mean unmedicated with limited intervention.

[ktgrok]

First, I admitted that I felt my emotions about this were excessive. I asked for perspective. I do appreciate people's input on the topic, and I have noted that IRL I have chosen to keep my silence on this. I have put my acquaintance's feelings above making any kind of a statament on the topic.

 

Second, it is the family's expectation, stated publicly, that they are minimally involved. I should have spelled it out more clearlly when I stated that the parent at home intends to continue to work full time from home, but that is the least of the comments that have been made indicating a level of parental involvement different from what you and I expect.

 

For me, here the heart of the matter: some people using public virtual schools are taking a long-established term (homeschooling) and adding a definition that flies in the face of some of the possible reasons for independently homeschooling in the first place. You can see how that would make some of us who have lived by the long-accepted definition uncomfortable.

 

Same thing with people scratching their heads at the re-definition of natural childbirth to mean anything short of having a c-section, when it used to mean unmedicated with limited intervention.

 

So...if i am using curriculum that is almost totally independent for my son this year (I am), does that mean I'm not homeschooling?

[Scarlett]

:iagree:Yes, this falls under a bit of "homeschooling snobbery". Just as people claim unschooling isn't homeschooling, or using an umbrella school isn't homeschooling, etc. My oldest uses a cyber school. Yes, he's considered a public schooler, but a public homeschooler. I still have to stay on top of him, be his advocate, have regular discussions with his supervising instructor, etc. Yes, the planning is done for me, much as when I pick up my teacher's manual from MFW or if someone is using Calvert (this cyber school gives the option of Calvert in the elementary grades). The difference is that it's an option that can help families that are crossing over, feel that their child has moved beyond them in certain subjects, feel overwhelmed, want to homeschool, but can't afford the curricula, etc.

 

Not tomato throwing, but please be encouraging to your friend rather than annoyed. This may just be a first step for her or what works for their life right now.

 

:iagree:

 

(says Scarlett who is in her 7th year of using K12 through state VA)

[Halftime Hope]

she is calling herself something you call YOURself and YOU don't think she has a right to.

 

I think this is the heart of the matter, but it's not about me calling myself something and the acquaintance choosing the same label, it's about 1) changing definitions, and 2)whether there is integrity in a definition.

 

I can think of all kinds of situations in which it is appropriate to protect time-honored definitions of terms. Although this is certainly one of them--people who have be fighting for and defending homeschooling freedoms at the state level are concerned about precedent and state-control issues--I don't feel called to that fight above honoring the good faith of my acquaintance.

[Delirium]

OP...you're both justified and not. You're allowed to feel that your choices of homeschooling are better than others, and I'm sure those (in your opinion) non-homeschooling virtual public schoolers appreciate you not raining on their parade. It's okay to feel how you feel.

 

I do not agree with you, and that's okay too! As a parent, whether I home/public/un/wear a book on my head and call it learning by osmosis....it doesn't matter (okay that last one might) because I'm taking an interest in my child's education. I thoughtfully decided what program or curriculum might suit my child's educational needs. Maybe I also considered my own level of education or confidence in my ability to teach and how that might affect the quality of learning. I will never understand the need to create dividing lines and exclusions. Just like I wouldn't snap judge someone as inferior because their kids go to PS (I don't know their reasons or maybe PS works great for their family) I don't find it necessary to further segregate the HS crowd.

[IdahoHomeschooler]

I am struggling to be charitable towards this attitude that the only families that have the right to call themselves homeschoolers are the ones that do it a certain way. This will be my first year homeschooling my daughter. I opted to use a state-funded charter school. Why? 1. It provides me with the structure and accountability I need, as I have ADHD and it can be difficult for me to maintain focus on a long-term project. Each month I will be required to submit a form summarizing how we met the learning objectives. There will also be state mandated testing we have to do. This will help me stay on task. 2. There is a nice stipend provided to purchase curriculum, subscriptions, and fund activities. They also provide a computer/printer and subsidize internet. I like to think of these funds as a tax return, since it totals about what I pay into the state for income taxes.

 

I am still the one teaching, researching and choosing curriculum, lesson planning, grading, record keeping, etc. In addition, I have the added responsibilities required by the charter school. For a non-homeschooling parent, I sure do have a lot of work ahead of me to provide my non-homeschooling student a non-homeschooling education in our home! :tongue_smilie:

 

Really, though, I can't imagine why any of this should matter to you or anyone else. It is just another extension of the mommy-wars, and only seeks to divide and categorize people. There is nothing positive to be gained in this war, unless the goal is to cause hurt and separation. Yes, there are some, like the HSLDA, that maintain that the *legal* definition reallyreallyreally matters, and that somehow the virtual academies and charter schools are secretly planning to infiltrate the "real" homeschooling communities and turn them into public-schooling-zombie-borgs just like"us"! Until someone can come up with a compelling reason *not* to call ourselves homeschoolers, I'm happily going to continue to do so ;).

[mommaduck]

So it sounds like you are annoyed because she is calling herself something you call YOURself and YOU don't think she has a right to.

 

Everyone has the right to call themselves whatever they want. You can still have your own ideas. You just don't have to label others publicly. Keep it to yourself. Unless of course you want to offend this person, but nothing good can come of that. Unless it makes you feel better to offend people, and I'm sure that is not what you want to do.

 

And you know I get tired of this argument. I mean, *I* signed up for one of those one year. I hated it but that's besides the point. I didn't know if I could do it or not. It made me realize I can homeschool. And yes, I mean YOUR definition aka doing all of the planning myself. Often times these virtual schools are at least what people need to get started.

:iagree:It's just like the "Are JW's/LDS/RC/EO really Christians?" threads that pop up.

[Scarlett]

:iagree: Honestly, I know many people using or have used virtual online and at the end of the day they end up working harder than the regular homeschoolers I know because they have to be in touch with a 3rd party constantly.

 

This. It is exhausting. I committed to the K12 program because I believe it to be excellent....but if I could afford to do it without the VA I would in a heartbeat. Using a VA is not that 'easy' and as time goes on it seems they add more and more red tape.---although I am not sure if that is due to increased state involvement or the change is due to it now being middle school.

[Tidbits of Learning]

 

I think the reason it annoys me is that I put so much more work into planning, teaching, and taking responsibility for assessing, grading, correcting, that it annoys me to have someone else call what they are doing homeschooling when it is not parent-led, not parent-provided, and requires so much less responsibililty and effort.

 

 

 

I am doing a state virtual school and I will tell you it is most definitely parent led and requires more effort and responsibility than when we were traditional homeschoolers. I do feel we still "home" school, but I don't feel like a homeschooler as much now. They provide the curriculum and a tentative schedule, but I am responsible for planning our days and getting us through it. I like the curriculum and I love the cost (free), but it is much harder than when we homeschooled b/c we are on their agenda and goals.

Any one that thinks it will ease their burden with the stress is mistaken. The teachers are just there on paper. They do not help the child with anything. They have office hours, but you are competing with the other hundred or so kids that they are teaching as well. I will tell you that I am doing more work than I ever did before and it is much more stressful in certain ways while being a relief in others.

I will tell you that doctors, OT's, and other professionals see it as homeschooling when they are assessing your child and their learning environment. It goes like this, where does ___ go to school? He goes to the virtual academy and uses k12. Where is that at? I haven't heard of it. Well it is online. So he is home schooled? Well, yes...we school at home... as the professional scribbles on the paper.

I think it is silly to get so upset over whether virtual school is homeschooling just b/c the state pays for it and provides it all. It is no different than using Abeka Virtual or Bob Jones distance learning, or any other umbrella program.

It is not magically easier with the virtual. We are at home and I am helping every child with every lesson. Do I feel the counselor and teacher are there for me or my child? Only on paper. I gave up a lot of freedom for free curriculum. It is a season of our lives and I am not sure how I will feel about it at the end of the year. I would have been devastated though had any of our homeschool friends, homeschool groups, or co-ops suddenly shunned us b/c they didn't feel we were homeschoolers any more.

[Halftime Hope]

I don't see any reason for withholding support other than meanness.

 

Tibbie, if you read my posts on this, you will see that while I am feeling some emotion on this, I am not being mean or withholding support. In fact, the opposite is true. I am conflicted, but it is something that I have not chosen to make known.

 

This is more information than what I shared in the beginning, but my middle child, who is now a young adult and is closer to the family, has been a role model and a generous, loving mentor for the child in this family.

[Scarlett]

I am doing a state virtual school and I will tell you it is most definitely parent led and requires more effort and responsibility than when we were traditional homeschoolers. I do feel we still "home" school, but I don't feel like a homeschooler as much now. They provide the curriculum and a tentative schedule, but I am responsible for planning our days and getting us through it. I like the curriculum and I love the cost (free), but it is much harder than when we homeschooled b/c we are on their agenda and goals.

Any one that thinks it will ease their burden with the stress is mistaken. The teachers are just there on paper. They do not help the child with anything. They have office hours, but you are competing with the other hundred or so kids that they are teaching as well. I will tell you that I am doing more work than I ever did before and it is much more stressful in certain ways while being a relief in others.

I will tell you that doctors, OT's, and other professionals see it as homeschooling when they are assessing your child and their learning environment. It goes like this, where does ___ go to school? He goes to the virtual academy and uses k12. Where is that at? I haven't heard of it. Well it is online. So he is home schooled? Well, yes...we school at home... as the professional scribbles on the paper.

I think it is silly to get so upset over whether virtual school is homeschooling just b/c the state pays for it and provides it all. It is no different than using Abeka Virtual or Bob Jones distance learning, or any other umbrella program.

It is not magically easier with the virtual. We are at home and I am helping every child with every lesson. Do I feel the counselor and teacher are there for me or my child? Only on paper. I gave up a lot of freedom for free curriculum. It is a season of our lives and I am not sure how I will feel about it at the end of the year. I would have been devastated though had any of our homeschool friends, homeschool groups, or co-ops suddenly shunned us b/c they didn't feel we were homeschoolers any more.

 

I have had that same experience if I try to say ds12 is a public school student. It is only to some homeschoolers that it makes a difference if it is a VA or not.

 

I know what you mean about giving up freedom for a free curriculum....I manage the red tape as best as I can, but it gets old some days.

 

Also, when ds was in 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th grade I did A LOT of the teaching.

[dangermom]

Nah, she's a homeschooler.

 

I'm another that doesn't like dividing lines, and I honestly don't think your 'integrity of a definition' argument holds water. If you like, you can call yourself an independent homeschooler, as opposed to a homeschooler using a charter. I think that's perfectly valid. But you're both still homeschoolers.

 

I started out independent, and I never would have thought that I'd sell out to the Man :tongue_smilie: and go charter. Then I went broke and couldn't afford so much as a math book. I joined a charter and am very happy, and the only way my life has changed is that I can afford science kits now. I could no longer attend the mom's group for independent homeschoolers (which I didn't really fit into anyway, as they were all evangelical and I am a Christian of the LDS variety ;)), but you know what--that group fell apart soon afterwards. It wasn't open enough.

 

Rigid line-drawing and, sorry, snobbery lead to isolation and stagnation. IMO.

Edited September 1, 2012 by dangermom

[Halftime Hope]

So...if i am using curriculum that is almost totally independent for my son this year (I am), does that mean I'm not homeschooling?

 

No, and that's part of the rub for me. : ) I'm trying to get to the heart of what makes this a rub for me.

 

Is it the amount of work involved? The parents in question seems to think that it will require little involvement on their part--which makes me feel like it really is different than homeschooling.

 

Yet others who are "virtually public-schooling at home" in this thread have been very vocal: heck yes, we're homeschooling, it takes a great deal of involvement and effort for me, so I'm going to call it homeschooling.

 

I ask myself, because my one child was largely self-directed and then so independent in the high school years, does that mean that I was less of a homeschooler with that child than with the others? I think not.

 

I don't know. I'm trying to boil this down to the real issues.

[KnitWit]

Okay, genuine question, no snarkiness intended...

 

Valerie, WHY do you feel conflicted? What is at the root of this? Are you not going to still do what you do for your kids? Will her choices for her family affect you in any way?

 

I guess these are more questions for you to ask yourself if you are really trying to understand why you are struggling rather to really answer for me.

 

Is it because *you* have allowed *others* to define homeschooling for *you* and maybe you feel pressured to do what YOU do so you won't feel judged?

 

These are good things to consider. It's a good thing to reach a place where you do what you do for the good of your own family and don't even worry about others.