Religious DD not participating in family activities

[summer]

My DD is 12 and on Sundays, she will not do anything that involves TV, movies, etc. Movies are pretty much a huge family favorite for us, and during the summer where it is over 100 degrees, it is a great activity. For a long time, because she is very stubborn about this, the rest of us just buckle down and don't leave the house on Sundays. We can still watch TV and things like that, we just do not go out because we don't want to leave and not take her and her religious beliefs apparently go against just about anything and everything. One Sunday, we did convince her that going to the Dallas World Aquarium is an exception..but we had to pay about $100 in admissions to that place as it is very expensive and we had to drive an hour to get there.

 

SO...it is Sunday again. A day I have grown to dread. I had told my neices that I would take them along with my children to "Get Smart" when they have time. DD has seen "Get Smart" and so have I, but my younger children have not. Well, my neices have time today. I have decided to just go. It is sooooooo hot out!! I want to go out. I want to leave the house. I do not feel it is fair for my 12 yr olds religious beliefs to put a complete stop to the lives of my entire family. She cannot even do certain church activities because sometimes...the middle schoolers will do activities that involve a film or something on Sundays during the summer. She cannot do this as she feels it is not honoring the Sabath.

 

In case she is right, I do not want to be the one who makes her fall. Who knows, maybe God wants us all to lay down and play dead on Sundays, I do not read God's mind. So I have not demanded she do something she is so clearly uncomfortable with. So today, she will be home alone (DH has decided to just stay home too, maybe he will get some work done or something, he also has some boards like that he goes to..football ones to be specific).

 

I am just frustrated. But I most definitely do not want her to convince her little brothers to do this shut down routine every week. Has anyone ever heard of a belief that means you cannot watch TV or movies or anything on the Sabath?

[PiCO]

I would just leave her home. 12 is old enough to stay home alone, in my opinion.

 

If she did not have a stongly held belief (just didn't want to do whatever ...) I would make her participate in family activities.

[Twinmom]

Well, I've definitely heard of faiths that say that, but I think there is a bigger issue here. I have no idea of what faith your DD is, but I'm a Christian and my two cents on it is this: The Bible says to honor your parents. It is one of the commandments, one of the big ones. At 12 yrs old, if your parents say go, you go. Period. You have tried to be accomodating, but there are times when you cannot be. If you were asking her to go to a strip club with you, I might feel differently, but you aren't asking much in my opinion.

 

Should your DD have a very strong objection to a family activity, suggest to her that she can use her allowance to hire a sitter because the rest of you are going.

[Plucky]

My DD is 12 and on Sundays, she will not do anything that involves TV, movies, etc. Movies are pretty much a huge family favorite for us, and during the summer where it is over 100 degrees, it is a great activity. For a long time, because she is very stubborn about this, the rest of us just buckle down and don't leave the house on Sundays. We can still watch TV and things like that, we just do not go out because we don't want to leave and not take her and her religious beliefs apparently go against just about anything and everything. One Sunday, we did convince her that going to the Dallas World Aquarium is an exception..but we had to pay about $100 in admissions to that place as it is very expensive and we had to drive an hour to get there.

 

SO...it is Sunday again. A day I have grown to dread. I had told my neices that I would take them along with my children to "Get Smart" when they have time. DD has seen "Get Smart" and so have I, but my younger children have not. Well, my neices have time today. I have decided to just go. It is sooooooo hot out!! I want to go out. I want to leave the house. I do not feel it is fair for my 12 yr olds religious beliefs to put a complete stop to the lives of my entire family. She cannot even do certain church activities because sometimes...the middle schoolers will do activities that involve a film or something on Sundays during the summer. She cannot do this as she feels it is not honoring the Sabath.

 

In case she is right, I do not want to be the one who makes her fall. Who knows, maybe God wants us all to lay down and play dead on Sundays, I do not read God's mind. So I have not demanded she do something she is so clearly uncomfortable with. So today, she will be home alone (DH has decided to just stay home too, maybe he will get some work done or something, he also has some boards like that he goes to..football ones to be specific).

 

I am just frustrated. But I most definitely do not want her to convince her little brothers to do this shut down routine every week. Has anyone ever heard of a belief that means you cannot watch TV or movies or anything on the Sabath?

 

I wouldn't make it a huge deal but would go on with my life on Sunday as I see fit. She's 12. Can't she stay home by herself?

 

I don't really see this any differently than a child turning vegan. I would honor it but tell them that it cannot intrude on the rest of us. She has to take responsibility for her beliefs. If she can't watch tv or movies she should stay in her room while you guys watch. I wouldn't make a big deal out of it.

[summer]

It makes vacations difficult. Lets say we are on the other side of the country and we are in some museum and there is a film, she has to turn the other way and not see it. After we drove all the way across the country to get there! And then when visiting my grandmother, she lives in a small town and the theater is open only on weekends. If she wants to take us to the movie (something she has done on occassion) and DD turns her nose up and says she cannot.

 

Frankly, I think it gives her the feeling that she is better than the rest of us.

 

Just now, I tried to talk to her about it and she raised her voice at me and said "I know the bible does not say that, I alreadyy TOLD you why I do it!!!" And she tried to slam her door on me. I opened her door back up and told her, again, about how she is a child and the bible says she must obey her parents and that if she ever tries to slam the dooor on me again or raises her voice again...I will put her on timeout just like a little child.

 

(I generally add an extra chores..something the kids won't like, for discipline)

[Twinmom]

It makes vacations difficult. Lets say we are on the other side of the country and we are in some museum and there is a film, she has to turn the other way and not see it. After we drove all the way across the country to get there! And then when visiting my grandmother, she lives in a small town and the theater is open only on weekends. If she wants to take us to the movie (something she has done on occassion) and DD turns her nose up and says she cannot.

 

Frankly, I think it gives her the feeling that she is better than the rest of us.

 

Just now, I tried to talk to her about it and she raised her voice at me and said "I know the bible does not say that, I alreadyy TOLD you why I do it!!!" And she tried to slam her door on me. I opened her door back up and told her, again, about how she is a child and the bible says she must obey her parents and that if she ever tries to slam the dooor on me again or raises her voice again...I will put her on timeout just like a little child.

 

(I generally add an extra chores..something the kids won't like, for discipline)

 

Sounds like maybe it would be a good idea to remind her about the Bible's admonitions against having a self-righteous attitude (look up the Pharisees! ;)) and how to show love for others in gray areas that the Bible doesn't directly address. There are lots of examples...I can think of a couple involving Paul's teachings and one with Peter.

 

My first blush reaction is to applaud her "religious fervor" but remind her that it doesn't give her permission to get on a teenage high-horse! :D

[Alenee]

Out of curiosity, how did she come upon this belief? I've just recently done a serious study on the Sabbath. It sounds to me she's got a mixed view of the Sabbath. It's great that she wants to honor God by taking a Sabbath but what is her heart in this matter? Is it about obeying the law or about loving God and honoring Him? Is she viewing God as a big mean old man who is waiting to judge her or a loving God who put her in this family and wants the best for her?

[Old Dominion Heather]

Oh, the door slamming and raising my voice would definitely set me off. I would sit her down and let her know that until she could "honor her father and mother" she would not be going out of my sight. Then I would tie that kid too me and make her life miserable until she got her attitude right.

 

This sounds to me like she has figured out a way to jerk you around while making it sound like she is holier than thou. I would be reading her some stories about what Jesus had to say about the Pharisees and whited sepulchers and all that! They were doing pretty much the same thing.

[summer]

Can someone please tell me exactly where in the bible I find the stuff about the Pharisses? Thanks!

[summer]

Also..she previously explained to me that she feels so many children are spoiled and do not appreciate all they have. So, she abstains from everything on Sundays in a way to show that she appreciates it and does not have to have the material things to be happy.

[SusanG]

Frankly, I think it gives her the feeling that she is better than the rest of us.

 

Just now, I tried to talk to her about it and she raised her voice at me and said "I know the bible does not say that, I alreadyy TOLD you why I do it!!!" And she tried to slam her door on me. I opened her door back up and told her, again, about how she is a child and the bible says she must obey her parents and that if she ever tries to slam the dooor on me again or raises her voice again...I will put her on timeout just like a little child.

 

(I generally add an extra chores..something the kids won't like, for discipline)

 

 

I'd have to point out to her that her religious beliefs do NOT give her the right to be an arrogant, obnoxious little snit. Actually, snit is not the word I would use, lol. Funny that she won't watch tv on the Sabbath, but she has no problem disrespecting her parent on the Sabbath. The child needs a reality check. Badly.

[nmoira]

Frankly, I think it gives her the feeling that she is better than the rest of us.

 

Just now, I tried to talk to her about it and she raised her voice at me and said "I know the bible does not say that, I alreadyy TOLD you why I do it!!!" And she tried to slam her door on me. I opened her door back up and told her, again, about how she is a child and the bible says she must obey her parents and that if she ever tries to slam the dooor on me again or raises her voice again...I will put her on timeout just like a little child.

Does your family all go to the same church (if you go to church)? I'd recommend having her pastor speak with her about spiritual and doctrinal issues. At that age, and with her attitude, meaningful discussion between you and her might be off the table. If she's not already doing volunteer or outreach work with her church, perhaps it's time to start.

 

IMHO, disrespectful behavior should dealt with as such, and separately.

 

I agree with others that she is old enough to stay home alone. Don't deny the rest of your family to suit her whims and beliefs, but OTOH, don't rub her nose in it either. Go on with your life.... it's OK. :)

[dragons in the flower bed]

Just now, I tried to talk to her about it and she raised her voice at me and said "I know the bible does not say that, I alreadyy TOLD you why I do it!!!" And she tried to slam her door on me. I opened her door back up and told her, again, about how she is a child and the bible says she must obey her parents and that if she ever tries to slam the dooor on me again or raises her voice again...I will put her on timeout just like a little child.

 

Sounds to me like either she is very frustrated by your attempts to converse with her about it, or she has motivations not related to any convictions about right and wrong. I would be tempted to say that to her, outright.

 

With Sterling (my partner's middle schooler), I make him prove his point if it's going to interfere with our lives. You're teaching her logic at this stage, anyway, right? Learning to have a friendly debate about any point, religious or otherwise, is one of my educational goals for my kids, and I have no qualms with using their personal convictions as fodder for practice.

[Gretchen in NJ]

Well, I've definitely heard of faiths that say that, but I think there is a bigger issue here. I have no idea of what faith your DD is, but I'm a Christian and my two cents on it is this: The Bible says to honor your parents. It is one of the commandments, one of the big ones. At 12 yrs old, if your parents say go, you go. Period. You have tried to be accomodating, but there are times when you cannot be. If you were asking her to go to a strip club with you, I might feel differently, but you aren't asking much in my opinion.

 

Should your DD have a very strong objection to a family activity, suggest to her that she can use her allowance to hire a sitter because the rest of you are going.

:iagree:

Thanks Twinmom. I was thinking the same thing except for the sitter. She is 12 years old. What is she going to tell you when she is 16 years old. I would really like to know what faith is telling her not to spend time with her mother.

 

I think there are underlying issues here and she is just using her faith to vent them.

[Gretchen in NJ]

It makes vacations difficult. Lets say we are on the other side of the country and we are in some museum and there is a film, she has to turn the other way and not see it. After we drove all the way across the country to get there! And then when visiting my grandmother, she lives in a small town and the theater is open only on weekends. If she wants to take us to the movie (something she has done on occassion) and DD turns her nose up and says she cannot.

 

Frankly, I think it gives her the feeling that she is better than the rest of us.

 

Just now, I tried to talk to her about it and she raised her voice at me and said "I know the bible does not say that, I alreadyy TOLD you why I do it!!!" And she tried to slam her door on me. I opened her door back up and told her, again, about how she is a child and the bible says she must obey her parents and that if she ever tries to slam the dooor on me again or raises her voice again...I will put her on timeout just like a little child.

 

(I generally add an extra chores..something the kids won't like, for discipline)

Summer,

This sounds like something completely different. She is using religion to cut you out of her life: at least on Sundays. There is somthing more then her religious beliefs at work here.

[Julie in Austin]

She should have a sit down with her religious leader after that person has been briefed by you about these issues.

 

That said, I do think it is possible for people to feel called to observances that everyone isn't called to do, if that makes sense, and that you should try to honor that. Maybe once she has gotten over her attitude, you can suggest that she be responsible for planning fun family activities on Sundays such as board games or whatever.

[Plucky]

:iagree:

 

 

I think there are underlying issues here and she is just using her faith to vent them.

 

I agree. I would be more concerned with the relationship. There is anger being displayed here on both sides.

[Aubrey]

Wait, wait, wait! I think y'all are forgetting that OP's dd is 12. Remember 12? At 12, you're a self-righteous little snit no matter what! I remember. Kind-of like being hormonal, every once in a while, I'd get my head above water enough to *see* it for a second, & I'd be mortified. But also grateful to those who could love me through it.

 

A 12yo who's giving up fun stuff like movies w/ family AND friends should give a person pause. Is she right? Not necessarily. But if you feel like she's *using* this to one-up you, I'd bet quite a bit that she can tell you think that & is reacting to THAT w/ her disrespect. She may feel disrespected, too.

 

Sure, the attitude & door-slamming should be addressed, but I'd keep it gentle for now. I'd try to approach the Sabbath beliefs gently, too, because while her understanding of that may change, the effects of your reception or rejection of those beliefs will last a lot longer.

 

When I was a teen, I did not lie to my mother. I didn't listen to obscene music--in fact, I listened mainly to old hymns. I decided I didn't believe in dating. I was EASY, you know? So when she'd get upset w/ me about something, it was generally a misunderstanding. And I REMEMBER how unfair that felt. I knew what the other kids around me were doing, & I SO wished my mom would SEE how easy she had it. I wanted her to... I don't know, appreciate me a little.

 

Then my sis & bro became teens, & she had no idea what had hit her. She had to deal w/ sneaking out, drugs, smoking, s#x, etc.

 

My point is...try looking at it from the other side. Dd's conviction is frustrating, but what a wonderful problem to deal w/ compared to other 12yos! And if you handle it w/ grace, show her respect, you may be in for some peaceful teen yrs.

 

As far as how to deal w/ how her beliefs disrupt the family, talk to her about it. Tell her how you feel--that you really admire her convictions but that you also want to do fun things as a family. You don't want to leave her out. See what she suggests. You're not bound by her suggestions, but I'll bet she'll appreciate being asked, kwim?

 

As for vacations & trips to grandma's, again, I'd explain the situation to her, & see what she thinks. An example that might help w/ grandma's house at least is when Jesus' disciples picked grain on the Sabbath & when He Himself healed on the same day. He was criticized for this by the pharisees, but he pointed out that a man will pull a donkey out of a ditch on the Sabbath, that David's men...hmmm...they did something on the Sabbath...maybe it was them who picked the grain. Well, you get the idea. Jesus said there were exceptions. And those exceptions have to do w/ loving & honoring others.

 

Most of all, I'd try not to push her or pull the "honoring your parents" card (in order to make her see movies--for slamming the door, it's fine). As much as you can, be proud of her for *having* convictions, & when you get annoyed, just know that this age is annoying almost no matter what. It will pass!!

 

I hope that helps, & I hope I haven't been too forward or offensive. Ftr, mine are 7 & under, so my advice is purely on the teen age end of the experience. If I'm way off-base, it wouldn't be the first time. (Ask my mom! :lol:)

[tibbyl]

Her interpretation of her faith. Her piety. Her choice. But she does not have the right to impose her interpretation upon rest of family. Really I do not see the need to have a discussion with her beyond something along lines of ...... How interesting. We'll be back from aquarium around x p.m. There are leftovers in refrigerator.

 

Our state's dept. of social services has deemed that a child 12 or over can be left safely at home alone.

[Gretchen in NJ]

This whole thing reminds me of my sister when she decide to stop eating meat.

 

Every Thanksgiving, she would :glare: at us for eating turkey. It was not a happy time.

[Kathleen in VA]

When you say "religious" I'm assuming you mean Christian. Your daughter is still very young and, in my opinion, has a very warped idea of Christianity. Christianity is not a list of dos and dont's - it is a relationship with a Saviour, Jesus Christ. I realize that to honor that relationship we must then obey His word. I just think your daughter is young and does not really understand what the Bible has to say about these things.

 

I agree with the other posters who have stressed that she needs to obey her parents. It is highly hypocritical of her to slam doors and have a bad attitude all the while saying she is trying to be a good Christian. Those two just don't mix.

 

That said, it is clear that she has a very sensitive conscience at it would be wrong to force her to go against that. Think of Eric Liddell in Chariots of Fire when the Prince tried to manipulate him into running on Sunday. You must not damage her conscience. The problem is that her conscience is not fully correct and that is where you need to help her.

 

Until you get that straightened out, could you perhaps play board games or work on a jigsaw puzzle? I do not believe God expects us to play dead on Sundays. God created the Sabbath for man - not the other way around. It is meant to be a time to rest from the cares of this world. She needs to learn that resting can take many forms. The idea is one of refreshing, rejuvenating.

 

I wish I had a resource to point you to on this one. I can't think of anything right off. She is wrong, but it would be wrong, at this point in time, for you to ask her to violate her conscience. Wow, I really wish I could think of something more to say than that. I will check into this and see if I can find something that would settle this matter for her so that your Sundays are no longer hijacked by her immature understanding of what God expects from her.

[Murphy101]

DD turns her nose up and says she cannot.

Frankly, I think it gives her the feeling that she is better than the rest of us.

she raised her voice at me

she tried to slam her door on me.

 

disrespect is not tolorated.

I'd remove the tv and movies and such for the entire week as punishment.

 

Also..she previously explained to me that she feels so many children are spoiled and do not appreciate all they have. So, she abstains from everything on Sundays in a way to show that she appreciates it and does not have to have the material things to be happy.

 

If that's what she wants to do then fine, but making other people miserable on the Lord's day is not in line with the sabbath.

She should meekly and quietly simply say, "No, thank you, but I hope you enjoy it." Any other response is unacceptable and unchristian of her. Not to mention petty and sactimonius and frankly spoiled behavior.

 

I'd have to point out to her that her religious beliefs do NOT give her the right to be an arrogant, obnoxious little snit. Actually, snit is not the word I would use, lol. Funny that she won't watch tv on the Sabbath, but she has no problem disrespecting her parent on the Sabbath. The child needs a reality check. Badly.

 

:lol: True, but 12 yr old girls are rather snitty in general at times. I'd just give her the reality check and move on.

 

Really I do not see the need to have a discussion with her beyond something along lines of ...... How interesting. We'll be back from aquarium around x p.m. There are leftovers in refrigerator.

 

Our state's dept. of social services has deemed that a child 12 or over can be left safely at home alone.

 

Yep. I get the strong impressin that she is trying to goad her family for some reason. I'd simply ignore it and move on. I wouldn't be obnoxious about it and I'd enjoy the rest of the week like normal with her. I also would not repeat the performance later in the week. For example, if she hadn't seen Get Smart and we were going on Sunday, I would not make a second trip for her later in the week. She wants to sacrifice, then that's what she can do.

 

This whole thing reminds me of my sister when she decide to stop eating meat.

 

Every Thanksgiving, she would :glare: at us for eating turkey. It was not a happy time.

 

Ug. I've come across similiar situations. Again the ONLY acceptable response is a smile and "No, thank you." Anything beyond that just makes them look like a jerk and taints an otherwise pleasant event for everyone else.

[BeckyFL]

Since she is trying to do what she believes is right, I think you should just go off with the rest of the family and let her stay at home. Your fun shouldn't depend on someone else and she is old enough to stay at home.

My son does a lot of fasting when we aren't and we just eat without him. We don't want to stop having good food, treats, etc but I want to applaud him for being committed and giving something up for God.

In a way, she is doing the same... sacrificing something and trying to be serious about her faith. I feel that God always honors a heart that is committed to Him and trying to go all they can.

That just doesn't mean the you are called to do the same thing. In the end, our faith is a personal thing and our relationship with God is an intimate relationship between the 2 of us alone.

Rejoice that this isn't a battle of wills over immorality.

This one shouldn't be a battle at all.

[WagsWife]

Ok...forgive me if I am wrong, but it does not sound like you are taking her to church on Sundays. Could it be that abstaining from things like movies and such is her way of honoring the Sabbath the only way she feels she is able...or even the only way she knows? If this is the case, I would get her into a church ASAP. Once she is hearing the Word in Sunday School and from a Pastor, she will start to understand the difference between the Law and what we as Gentiles are under...Grace.

[Kathleen in VA]

Well, this doesn't cover everything I would like to say about what to do or not do on the sabbath but it is about how Jesus is our Sabbath rest. I do not know this website - I just googled "Jesus is our Sabbath rest" and this link came up. I think it is pretty solid biblically.

 

http://www.thegracetabernacle.org/studies/gtsn_sabbath.html

 

I will keep searching to see if there is more that might be helpful in this situation.

 

ETA: As I searched further I found an excellent explanation of how Jesus is our Sabbath rest. We are to stop trying to work to earn salvation. In other words, through Christ we no longer have to present our works as evidence of our worth. Keeping God's law is impossible. Christ kept if for us. Therefore, we can rest from our works and rest in His. We do this every day of the week and we will do it for eternity. I can understand if you daughter does not want to watch certain movies that she thinks are offensive to God, but to not watch movies because they "aren't allowed on Sunday," is not really understanding the Sabbath. I hope this helps.

[Brindee]

I think first of all I would pray about it and check my attitude about her and her beliefs. Is she really trying to be snitty about it or self-righteous, or does it come off that way because you believe differently than she does? I ask this because someone once told me that when they were first getting to know me they thought I was snotty. Come to find out, I'm shy and have a hard time initiating conversations. She may just not know how to go about this without coming across that way to others with different beliefs.

 

We need to remember she's 12. The way a 12yo acts is different than if she was 21 and had the same convictions. She's not a mature Christian yet. She doesn't know how to express it "the right way" yet.

 

I wouldn't come from the "Children obey your parents" angle about her religious convictions, because we are also asked to put God above man. When his parents were angry at him for not obeying them, Jesus Himself said, at 12 years old, "Don't you know I have to be about my Father's business?" And later, as a man, he said "Who is my mother? Who are my brothers?" Meaning He had to choose to follow God's ways first. At this point, in her 12yo way, she feels strongly convicted that she is doing what is right. She feels she is giving up privileges and rights to follow God. How can that be put down or criticized? Actions may be discussed, and disregard for parental authority such as slamming doors, needs to be dealt with! But assuming she is being rude and disrespectful because she won't go to movies with her family, or anyone, on her Sabbath day isn't right! She may love you dearly and want to do what you ask, but feels she has to follow God first. So if she gets forced to go to movies, or made to feel bad or stupid because she's making that choice, it is VERY frustrating!

 

Some said she's being hypocritical because she's talking about what she won't do on Sabbath, but slams doors which is disrespectful of parents! Remember she's 12! NOT a perfect saint, but a young sinner who is TRYING to do what she feels is best but is misunderstood by her parents and others who feel she is being holier than thou, snitty and a self-righteous hypocrite! That's a heavy weight for a 12yo to bear! Haven't we all made mistakes? Don't many of us hold strong religious convictions of some kind....yet don't we also sometimes yell at our children or spouse, and make poor choices? Think about it! I think we're being rather hard on her!

 

If she holds these convictions, she should then be willing to stay home when you go to the movies or do other things on her Sabbath that she doesn't feel comfortable doing. She can do what she DOES feel comfortable with during that time.

 

I have a question: If you KNOW she has these convictions, why can't you plan to go to the movies on Saturday? It almost seems like she's being antagonized by planning all these things on Sunday when they maybe could just as well be done on another day!

 

I'd back off and give her a chance. Try to REALLY understand where she's coming from and not give negative vibes of disagreeing with her. Talk things through with her. Tell her you'll work with her if she'll work with you. But PLEASE don't force her to do something she feels is wrong!

 

BTW, we don't watch tv, go to movies or do "daily" things on our Sabbath day. If it's entertainment only, or work related, that doesn't HAVE to be done, then we don't do that either. The Bible says to rest on the Sabbath day. Keep your mind on Godly things. (I too would pull the ox out of the hole on the Sabbath, because it's an emergency, it needs to be done. If it's helping others or animals in an important way, then it's only Christian TO help!) There's a lot you can do with that---it doesn't mean do nothing! There will be LOTS of things that you all can do together as a family on that day without anyone getting stressed or angry because she doesn't want to go to movies. That's another thing you can ask her when you talk with her--what do you feel comfortable doing that we can all do together?

 

Probably not a popular opinion, but there it is...

 

Best wishes with your family togetherness!:grouphug:

[ereks mom]

Christianity is not a list of dos and dont's - it is a relationship with a Saviour, Jesus Christ ...

 

... It is highly hypocritical of her to slam doors and have a bad attitude all the while saying she is trying to be a good Christian. Those two just don't mix.

 

 

 

Jesus often spoke to the Pharisees and others who displayed leglaistic attitudes, and about the futility of seeking salvation by obedience to every nuance of the Law while forgetting what is really important: loving God and serving others.

 

A sense of legalism will cause a person to be continually frustrated and discouraged because of her inability to measure up. And a legalistic person will begin to be overly critical of others who are not as "spiritual" as she is.

 

Being a Christian does not mean following a checklist of rules, but about a relationship with Christ, who loves and forgives even though we, in ourselves, are completely unable to keep from making mistakes.

[Kathleen in VA]

OK, I found an excellent sermon by John Piper about the Sabbath. Here is the link. It emphasizes that the Sabbath is about showing love and mercy.

 

http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/Sermons/ByDate/1985/510_Remember_the_Sabbath_Day_to_Keep_it_Holy/

[Sunkirst]

I have to second what Aubrey said so well.

 

12 is just an age of self-righteous twitdom.

 

When I was 12, I got up early on Sundays, rode my bike to church, and tried to spend the rest of the day in quiet contemplation. I even scheduled myself as an acolyte on Christmas and Easter, so my family would have to wait to start the festivities (this was not my goal, but it was the result).

 

I wanted to be like Laura Ingalls. I wanted to be Amish. I wanted to be GOOD, and that meant being different.

 

Did I obey my parents? Sometimes, when it fit my worldview. Had I actually read the Bible? Bits, but it was just too convoluted (I would have never read a modern translation...;))

 

IMO, Your dd is just trying to find out who she is. 12 is an age were one rushes in whole-hog. One isn't nuanced and well-rounded.

 

Once again, IMO, (and to echo Aubrey), I wouldn't quote scripture at her to prove that she's wrong. You wouldn't be addressing the root of the issue. I would try talking to her and trying to reach a compromise. Realize that she's trying to find herself, set herself apart, and don't let her set herself apart from You.

 

Good Luck!

[Carol in Cal.]

I would not bug her but I also would not give her a lot of attention over this.

 

I would leave her at home if I trusted her and the situation enough. I would take her along and let her turn her back if she wanted to. If she brought along some knitting, that would be fine with me. I would not engage in discussion of this, nor would I show annoyance. But I also would not compliment her on it.

 

She's probably trying to be good, and also at the same time this is a dramatic age of wild swings and sweeping judgements. I imagine that she has no one single feeling about this or motivation for it.

 

My goal would be to be the flat backdrop against which her storm can play itself out, pretty much unremarked. There are lot of other things to fight about.

 

I would also try to find other things to do and other times to do them, and I would also try to find quiet things to do as a family that would work for her as well as you all, without telling her I was doing so. I would not want to let her think that she was ruling the roost to that extent.

 

And, frankly, if my DD had a religious conviction that I did not, I would try to pray that if there was something to be learned from this for myself, that God would show me that that was so. I think that at this age one of the deep desires children have is for significance, and moving into adult responsibilites. While, of course, simultaneously becoming childish in some ways that had seemed to have been outgrown. Very strange time. Anyway, I do look for areas where my DD can make a positive, measureable difference in the world and in our family, and if she has an insight that I benefit from, I be sure and tell her because I know that she needs to grow up and become her own person, and I want to encourage her in doing grownup things that are good in the hopes that she will be less tempted to do grownup things that are less positive, like drinking or whatever. I would not tolerate disrespect though.

 

I can see how annoying this must be. I have a 12YO DD myself. Great kid, but oh my goodness. But, it could be worse. A LOT worse.

[HSMom2One]

I've read all the posts and realize that there may be more going on under the surface, but here are some thoughts to consider. We live in a world full of peer pressure and good parents truly want to raise kids that learn to think for themselves. I think it is awesome that your daughter has chosen to make a personal choice based on what she feels God is saying to her. I would be so proud to know that my daughter is interested in pleasing God with her life. In time she will also learn more about loving her neighbors, but right now she is focused on loving God and that is AWESOME! Your dd may or may not change or soften her view on this one issue, but for now she is also learning to make a stand for what she believes is right. Just be thankful that she is more strong willed than amiable and that this is a life lesson that will lead to other life lessons. She is learning to use her strong will for reasons that are good. As irritating as it feels, this is a really important development in her life.

 

I would have to say that I'd show respect to her for this and allow her to follow her conscience without making a big deal of it. Along with that, I would also sit down and talk to her about how important it is to not expect others to live by our own personal standards. Just as you respect her, she must also respect you and others in the family. I'd also find ways to teach her about how Jesus was opposed to legalism and that there is a BIG difference between obeying God and becoming self-righteous.

 

More than anything, I would be praying for my daughter during this very important, very vulnerable stage in life. Just be sure to keep the door open for lots of conversations as she reaches out and needs you.

 

Bless you, my friend. Just remember, parenting isn't for weenies! Learning to let go is the hardest part of raising kids.

 

Lucinda

[Ellie]

Clearly she has a misunderstanding of Scripture. This is understandable; she is a child.

 

I'm not exactly sure what I would do, but I know that her raising her voice to you and trying to slam the door in your face negates any possible spiritual points she thinks she has gained by her legalistic view of what may and may not be done on Sunday.

 

How would you have disciplined her for yelling at you and slamming the door in your face? That's what you should do.

 

I think I agree about leaving her at home. The rest of you should not suffer because of her misunderstanding of Scripture.

 

Do you know how she came to believe this? Is there a leader or someone at church who has been feeding this to her? I'm thinking some detective work there might be appropriate.

[gardenschooler]

It makes vacations difficult. Lets say we are on the other side of the country and we are in some museum and there is a film, she has to turn the other way and not see it. After we drove all the way across the country to get there! And then when visiting my grandmother, she lives in a small town and the theater is open only on weekends. If she wants to take us to the movie (something she has done on occassion) and DD turns her nose up and says she cannot.

 

Frankly, I think it gives her the feeling that she is better than the rest of us.

 

Just now, I tried to talk to her about it and she raised her voice at me and said "I know the bible does not say that, I alreadyy TOLD you why I do it!!!" And she tried to slam her door on me. I opened her door back up and told her, again, about how she is a child and the bible says she must obey her parents and that if she ever tries to slam the dooor on me again or raises her voice again...I will put her on timeout just like a little child.

 

(I generally add an extra chores..something the kids won't like, for discipline)

 

I wouldn't tolerate this behavior for one second, as this is very contradictory and frankly, a little hard to believe. Hope you get it worked out, Lisa.

[Jenny in Atl]

Do you have a family friend she could talk to? Sometimes it helps kids of this age to have someone ((you trust)) that they can talk to. It sounds like this has little to do with really obeying the Sabbath (much harder than she thinks if she is trying to do it "old school") than it's about wanting some control in her life.

I hope you all find a peaceful solution. :grouphug:

[HRAAB]

I haven't read all the responses, but this seems to me to be much, much more than her religious beliefs. There is something underlying this. I would remind her of the 4th Commandment! You're the mother; she's the child. It appears she's in control on Sundays and jerking the whole family around. That isn't healthy for her or for the family. If you, the parent, make a choice that you're going somewhere on Sunday, she needs to go along if you say so. But I would seriously be looking for the underlying reasons for this behavior.

 

Janet

[Jean in Newcastle]

Well, if she really wants to be legalistic, she's doing it on the wrong day - the "Sabbath" is Saturday.

[bkpan]

I've read all the posts and realize that there may be more going on under the surface, but here are some thoughts to consider. We live in a world full of peer pressure and good parents truly want to raise kids that learn to think for themselves. I think it is awesome that your daughter has chosen to make a personal choice based on what she feels God is saying to her. I would be so proud to know that my daughter is interested in pleasing God with her life. In time she will also learn more about loving her neighbors, but right now she is focused on loving God and that is AWESOME! Your dd may or may not change or soften her view on this one issue, but for now she is also learning to make a stand for what she believes is right. Just be thankful that she is more strong willed than amiable and that this is a life lesson that will lead to other life lessons. She is learning to use her strong will for reasons that are good. As irritating as it feels, this is a really important development in her life.

 

I would have to say that I'd show respect to her for this and allow her to follow her conscience without making a big deal of it. Along with that, I would also sit down and talk to her about how important it is to not expect others to live by our own personal standards. Just as you respect her, she must also respect you and others in the family. I'd also find ways to teach her about how Jesus was opposed to legalism and that there is a BIG difference between obeying God and becoming self-righteous.

 

More than anything, I would be praying for my daughter during this very important, very vulnerable stage in life. Just be sure to keep the door open for lots of conversations as she reaches out and needs you.

 

Bless you, my friend. Just remember, parenting isn't for weenies! Learning to let go is the hardest part of raising kids.

 

Lucinda

 

:iagree::iagree: Very wise advice, and I would support my dd in her decisions. The family activities would go on as normal, but I would still want dd to know that we respected her convictions. She will probably come to a more balanced understanding of Scripture in her own time, but I definitely would not have a battle with her over this. HTH

 

Kim

[Donna T.]

My word, the child is 12 years old. Obviously, you know her well and you can discern if this is truly a religious conviction that she has come to or if it's a matter of a lack of respect for the rest of the family. I have a 9 yo son who is very "black and white" when it comes to his beliefs and practices and I don't always understand how best to help him, but I do understand that he is working out his salvation with fear and trembling which is exactly what God's Word tells us to do. And, it is NOT "legalism" to seek to obey the Lord's commands (legalism is something else all together, it is NOT the following of His commandments) and He does command that we remember the Sabbath Day and keep it holy... which means, separate. Yes, the Lord Jesus Christ Himself is our Rest but this girl is 12 years old! She is trying to honor her God by following the simple teaching of His Word. I believe the burden here is on the parent to be gentle and to help her with a meek spirit.

 

Matthew 18:6

"But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea."

 

I'll be praying for you and your daughter. God will give you the wisdom to address this as you seek Him. Personally, I would not leave a 12 year old girl home alone. I bet if you handle this with as much gentleness as you can muster, she will come around. If she is a Christian, the Holy Spirit will correct her in a way that you can't. He is the only one who knows all her thoughts and her true motives.

 

Could you rent movies to watch at home on a Sunday? I know... this isn't REALLY about the movies, but maybe just try to accomodate her a bit and ask her to do the same for you within reason. Excuse her to go to her room and spent time with the Lord while you go about your business.

[Frontier Mom]

A few things I would like to add:

 

As a mother to two boys that age, I wish mine would see Sunday as a day set apart somehow. Mine want to run over to the neighbors, go to the pool, play video games, etc. We just had the discussion that our dc's need to learn to unplug on Sundays - both with technology and busyness. Not trying to belittle your situation in any way, but maybe she is just expressing her personality.

 

I didn't see what your religious convictions and your daughter's were, but I'm wondering how the two are so different. I think some things are a phase, but others are a conviction. At her age, it is probably hard to tell. I do believe God makes us for a particular purpose and, as such, I try to be careful to discredit a conviction she may feel.

 

That said, it is not acceptable for your daughter to be disrespectful for any reason. If you know a pastor, or trusted church friend, could you sit down together with them and let your daughter express where she is coming from. My suggestion would be a God-fearing youth pastor where she would feel comfortable.

 

I'm not sure, but just for clarity, is your daughter a homebody? I have one child who desire to be home more but, because of our schedule, we run around way too much. Maybe she is just expressing her desire to stay home and be quiet for a time.

[ereks mom]

Do you know how she came to believe this? Is there a leader or someone at church who has been feeding this to her? I'm thinking some detective work there might be appropriate.

 

:iagree:

[asta]

Well, if she really wants to be legalistic, she's doing it on the wrong day - the "Sabbath" is Saturday.

 

Yep.

 

Knowing nothing about your family or your daughter (or whether you have attended services with her)... and all "this is just 12 year old snitiness" stuff aside: this doesn't sound like "Christian" behavior at all, this sounds like cultish.

 

If it were an adult, and they were ascribing to a very austere sect, yes. But a 12 year old? On their own? No.

 

 

asta

[Dayle in Guatemala]

being a christian and being religious. Religion is about rules and regulations and dos and don'ts, it leaves out anything personal from God and is all about being good enough to earn the love and forgiveness of God on our own.

 

We can't do that. We will never be good enough on our own. That's why being a Christian is about relationship.

 

Being a Christian is about realizing that apart from Jesus, we can't be good enough. Even our acts of righteousness are as filthy rags the Bible says. So, we can, in faith, accept the freedom that a relationship with Jesus gives us. We can embrace the forgiveness knowing that we could never do anything good enough on our own to earn it.

 

I would be concerned about where this theology of your 12 y.o. is coming from. She didn't come up with this on her own. She's struggling with something, either she's feeling guilty about something, or someone is really giving her wrong teaching.

 

It is wrong for her to set the tone for the family. You and your dh are the spiritual authority in the home and in her life. She needs to recognize that. I would suggest you meet with your pastor and get to the bottom of all of this. It's not spiritually healthy, which you know, and I'm concerned about her view of God.

 

:grouphug:Praying for you and her. God's wisdom in all of this.

[Laurie4b]

I'd be concerned that this is OCD, dressed up in religion. Is that a possibility?

 

Colossians 2 is a chapter that points out the ineffectiveness of lots of external "rules" in reining in the sin nature. You asked about the Pharisees. It's in all the gospels. They were the religious guys constantly irritated with Jesus. However, it might be the best thing to call the pastor and talk with him about it. He might be in a better position to talk with her theologically about it. If it's a matter of an immature conscience, she can be taught to discern what is truly right from what is legalistic.

 

Honestly, though, this doesn't sound like a theological thing to me; it sounds like something else, wearing theological clothes.

[Scuff]

It's one day. If you want to do something like go to the movies, do it on Saturday. I would be very careful about your children's convictions. I don't want to do anything to help sear their conscience. FWIW, we do like to stay home on the Sabbath, but Saturday, not sunday ;) But even if it was something I didn't agree with, I would honor their convictions and be careful not to cause them to stumble. If she remains strong, that can be a good thing in the years to come. Even if she decides not to keep Sabbath anymore, it's important that she does what she feels is right. That will serve her well in her teen years and throughout her life.

 

ETA: I still haven't read all the replies, will do that in a minute. But please don't give her a hard time about this. If it's truely a conviction of hers. It's hard to live life different, especially in your own family. It's very hard. When we first started keeping the Sabbath we had a lot of people mad at us because they didn't want to schedule stuff for Sundays and we couldn't come on Saturdays. It was very difficult. But we believe this is what God wants us to do. So, no matter the cost, we must follow God and be obedient to Him. I'm sure it's difficult for her to live in your family and have convictions different than everyone else. I would suspect that's why she yelled at you. You were pushing her and she already told you 100 times about her convictions. (not that it's right for her to yell at you) Kudos to her for being strong enough to take a stand. At her age I felt funny doing things on the Sabbath (Sunday at the time, didn't know it was realy Saturday) But I didn't have the strength to be different.

[PariSarah]

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

 

I suspect two things are going on at once. One, she has a genuine desire to follow God's laws, even when they are hard. That is something to encourage.

 

Two, she seems to have figured out that she can use this as a weapon against you. This is something to discourage.

 

The willingness to follow her faith no matter the consequences, the stubbornness in the face of disapproval--I wish more adult Christians would have these qualities. I seriously do. Trouble is, the ones that have it generally do so in the manner your daughter is doing it--lording it over others.

 

There are a few possible approaches here, and you'll have to decide which one fits your daughter's personality better and will fit more with your goals as a parent.

 

You could point to all the scriptures in violation of which she currently stands: Romans 14 and 15; Galatians 5: 19-21 (read the whole book, and these verses' emphasis on sins of community--dissensions, quarrels, contentiousness--will make even more sense); Mark 10: 41-45; 1 Cor 13. Paul is great for insisting that community is more important than religiosity. And there's some GREAT stuff in the prophets--Isaiah and Amos esp.--about the arrogantly and falsely religious. If you think that she's mostly trying to exert control over you, or if you think there's an element of ungenuineness here, you could go this route. "You are using God as an excuse to beat up on your family. You are not religious at all--you're playing the tyrant and you're taking the Lord's name in vain."

 

If you think she is more tender-hearted, or if you think she is genuinely trying to live a more faithful life, you could work with her a little more. Maybe honestly (and gently) tell her that you don't share her views and you won't inflict them on the rest of the family, but you want to help her be the most faithful Christian she can be. If you can maintain a relationship of gentleness and trust in this process, you can eventually point to the above verses, explaining that you think God cares about respect and community-building, not just about individuals being superheroes of virtue.

 

Really, your daughter sounds so much like me ten or twelve years ago that I don't even like to think about it. I don't think it's all bad, and I think that the more grace you can give her, the more likely that you'll both come out the other end with a good relationship. Grace *doesn't* necessarily mean letting her lord it over the whole family. But it might mean tempering your desire for her to "shape up" and get out of this phase.

[PrairieAir]

I think Aubrey pretty much nailed it.

 

12 is old enough to start exploring your beliefs. I don't agree with the conclusion she's reached, but I also don't think she should be forced to watch movies or TV on any day of the week. She is old enough to stay home alone unless you have other reasons for not wanting her to be home alone (safety of the area, don't trust her judgment, etc.).

 

Maybe she needs time alone. Maybe she needs to feel independent and in control of at least this one area of her life. 12 can be a difficult age, and I think kids that age often feel opressed even if there is no basis for it. It's part of growing up and the drive for independence and autonomy, and it's perfectly natural. I think you can allow her to explore these things while still requiring her to be respectful to you and the rest of the family.

 

Try talking to her on a more adult level. Don't just talk, though. Listen! It can't be passive listening and just waiting for her to say her piece with your mind already made up and an impatient look on your face. Sit down with her and have some real heart to heart conversations. Tell her you're interested in hearing what she believes and why. Ask her to show you how she has come to these conclusions. Show her what you see from Scripture without preaching at her--just meekly showing her how you see it. Maybe you could study the subject together. It sounds like you may need a refresher or a reason for believing the way you do as well. Pull out a concordance and look up verses regarding the subject. Look at it objectively with an open mind and a meek heart and not to prove your point--both of you learning together. Think about how you would handle this with an adult. Would you just insist that your way of believing is right and demand that she agree? Probably not.

 

It can be confusing for us as parents when our kids start growing up. The relationship changes. You wouldn't want a 30 year old son or daughter who obeys you without question. Well, some people would, but those relationships end up pretty warped and dysfunctional and affect spouses and grandchildren. No, you don't want that. Growing up is hard on kids and parents, but it is a necessary process. How you react to the changes in your daughter (and her little hormonal mood swings!) will greatly affect just how hard this period of change is as well as your future relationship with her. I really believe as kids become young adults we need to adapt a "Hold On Loosely" strategy. Yeah, leave it to me to base my parenting on an 80s song:D It works though.

[Remudamom]

Also..she previously explained to me that she feels so many children are spoiled and do not appreciate all they have. So, she abstains from everything on Sundays in a way to show that she appreciates it and does not have to have the material things to be happy.

 

If I recall correctly, you've been having trouble with your kids in addition to this?? First of all, I think she's grossly misinterpreting the Bible. Second, she's being disrespectful and inconsiderate. Third, why do you put up with it?

 

Backtalking and door slamming??? Yeah, she really is concerned about what Christ wants from her isn't she? And she thinks she's going to get brownie points from God for abstaining from movies?

 

She's taking God's name in vain by proclaiming Him with her mouth and then living the way she's living. I know, I'm a hypocrite too.

[*anj*]

What a story. Wow. I've never heard of anything like this, Lisa.

[Perry]

:lurk5:

[angela in ohio]

When you say "religious" I'm assuming you mean Christian. Your daughter is still very young and, in my opinion, has a very warped idea of Christianity. Christianity is not a list of dos and dont's - it is a relationship with a Saviour, Jesus Christ. I realize that to honor that relationship we must then obey His word. I just think your daughter is young and does not really understand what the Bible has to say about these things.

 

I agree with the other posters who have stressed that she needs to obey her parents. It is highly hypocritical of her to slam doors and have a bad attitude all the while saying she is trying to be a good Christian. Those two just don't mix.

 

That said, it is clear that she has a very sensitive conscience at it would be wrong to force her to go against that. Think of Eric Liddell in Chariots of Fire when the Prince tried to manipulate him into running on Sunday. You must not damage her conscience. The problem is that her conscience is not fully correct and that is where you need to help her.

 

Until you get that straightened out, could you perhaps play board games or work on a jigsaw puzzle? I do not believe God expects us to play dead on Sundays. God created the Sabbath for man - not the other way around. It is meant to be a time to rest from the cares of this world. She needs to learn that resting can take many forms. The idea is one of refreshing, rejuvenating.

 

I wish I had a resource to point you to on this one. I can't think of anything right off. She is wrong, but it would be wrong, at this point in time, for you to ask her to violate her conscience. Wow, I really wish I could think of something more to say than that. I will check into this and see if I can find something that would settle this matter for her so that your Sundays are no longer hijacked by her immature understanding of what God expects from her.

 

This is so incredibly wise.

 

I think that taking this opportunity to examine the way you spend time together would be good. Maybe she doesn't want to watch movies, because she really wants to connect with you and talk. I know my 12 yo dd is such a mix of "I can do it" and "Please hold onto me." I think games or conversation would be great options for things to do together on Sundays.

 

I don't think all of it can be ascribed to her age, though. Most people, when they first have a conviction, go a little overboard. You can help her through this and model for her the way to handle it as an adult. This seems like a huge learning opportunity. I think the two biggest things are: (1.) to honor the calling she has and help her understand that it is important to stand up for her beliefs, and (2.) to help her figure out how to follow her convictions, God, and the Bible in the correct way. I agree with everyone who said that you will need a religious leader of some sort to help you.