If CPS comes to your door...

[Mrs Mungo]

I thought it was the opposite, you DO NOT let them in and demand to see proof of a warrant or some other reason they are there. You politely but firmly tell them to leave your house.

 

I think this depends upon your feelings about the government and how quickly you want them to leave. You don't generally have to show a cop the inside of the trunk of your car, but most people will.

[Jpoy85]

No i would NOT let them in.

 

http://fightcps.com/2010/04/09/what-to-do-if-child-protective-services-social-workers-are-investigating-you/

[Mergath]

No i would NOT let them in.

 

http://fightcps.com/2010/04/09/what-to-do-if-child-protective-services-social-workers-are-investigating-you/

 

Wow. That page is certainly a whole bunch of paranoid.

[Laura Corin]

My brother let the equivalent service in in the UK. The neighbour had reported him because of hearing their daughter yelling every night at 6:30, 'No, Daddy. Don't do that. I don't like it.' The representative sat down with the family (I don't know if they talked to my niece separately) to hear their story and was quite happy with the explanation that the daughter hated having her teeth brushed.

 

My brother and sister in law were shaken by the experience though, and wondered how long they were on the files for.

 

Laura

[NatashainDFW]

Wow. That page is certainly a whole bunch of paranoid.

:iagree:

 

I dunno if its smart to go that far to the extreme. I want to protect my rights but not at the risk of teaching my child that all government agents are bad guys.

[Soror]

My mom worked in Social Services and I worked in Senior Services (both of which were housed with Children Services) and I personally knew or mom knew a lot of the workers. I wouldn't be afraid of them coming to my door. As pp said I know they are used to dealing with real abuse and neglect cases and are not keen on removing kids just because. Depending on the attitude of someone who showed up I'd likely offer to talk to them outside or invite them in. I'd hope I'd be friendly, unless given good reason otherwise. Luckily I don't really have close neighbors, dh's parents are the closest and they cannot see our house due to the woods.

[Jpoy85]

:iagree:

 

I dunno if its smart to go that far to the extreme. I want to protect my rights but not at the risk of teaching my child that all government agents are bad guys.

 

they arent all bad, there are good ones. They just arent always on the up and up.

 

I would not let them in. I would tell them to get a warrant. I could let them in and let them leave, but thats the issue- so many people are afraid of them that they do whatever they tell them and CPS knows it. Im sure good workers do their jobs right and they are GREAT to work with, but when you have a bad worker who is telling you " sign this case plan or im taking your child " and you dont know your rights.... you could end up doing something stupid and signing it and opening a can of worms.

[*Michelle*]

Hmm. I wouldn't answer my door in the first place. I don't open my door to strangers unless there's a big, brown truck at the curb. Come back with someone in uniform and then we'll chat. Outside.

[sparkygirl]

In our situation we were advised by our pediatrician to voluntarily involve CPS as we had nothing to hide but DH's ex was claiming our home was unsafe for 1 of her children but still sending over the 2nd child. So if they were to show up I would let them in and talk through the situation.

[carina]

Hmm. I wouldn't answer my door in the first place. I don't open my door to strangers unless there's a big, brown truck at the curb. Come back with someone in uniform and then we'll chat. Outside.

This. :)

[sunnylady303]

This is something I have difficulty with because I am still dealing with trauma from our year long battle with CPS which finally wrapped up two years ago.

 

I believe that most CPS workers are sane, good hearted people doing a heart wrenching job.

 

But there are workers with issues out there and we got one. The short version is that they came to us in the hospital where DD2 was and aggressively accused me of Munchausens-by-proxy and threatened taking the girls away and interviewed me and DH and both girls alone. It was a nightmare. She was hostile and rude and threatening. We were allowed to keep the girls but I was not allowed to be alone with DD2 at all. The investigation (including forensic pediatricians going through her massive medical records, me having a 10 hour psych evaluation, home visits) quickly proved that wasn't the case and I was completely cleared of the Munchausens - which was really a ludicrous accusation given all the documentation of DD's problems.

 

But. In the course of the pysch eval it came out that I have an anxiety disorder. I see a therapist and am on medication and it is well controlled. It is the result of years of abuse and craziness. I handle it very well if I (and my therapist :) ) do say so. But they decided that meant we shouldn't homeschool because I have this mental illness. (I grew to hate that word - yes, anxiety is technically a mental illness but I am a normal, functioning adult. That is not my label.) So they took us to court to get us to stop. Three times. And dragged all my traumatic history through the court in this small town. The judge threw it out. All three times.

 

To end a painfully long story, when we were eventually assigned a regular (non-investigative) caseworker, she was shocked at how our house functioned and how awesome my kids were. The investigative caseworker had painted a very different picture. The case was closed after the new worker made three visits.

 

We were also told that the original caseworker was fired. And that we were at least part of the reason. Also we found out that we had been reported by a church member who thought homeschooling was wrong.

 

It was very traumatic and helpless and awful. Having been through all that, I read this question and really thought about what I would do should that happen again. (Besides try not to fall apart.) Based on my experience and the advice of the lawyer whom we love, I would let them in. I would record their visit. I would not let them speak to my children without someone else present - be it a lawyer or a close friend. And if they needed to speak to me, again, I would have an advocate ideally or at least record it. Because they are most often good people trying to do a job, but sometimes they aren't.

Edited August 14, 2012 by sunnylady303
Forgot an "s".

[KayT]

Oh Sunnylady303 that sounds so horrible...:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:. So sorry you had to go through all that.

[WishboneDawn]

I have heard stories for YEARS of CPS removing kids because they are spanked, or the house was a bit messy, or whatever. I mean if 60%+ of homes use corporal punishment that would be a whole lot of foster homes needed to take in all of those spanked kids! It used to scare me because it seemed, from what I heard, that CPS just came in and took kids out willy-nilly. I was afraid they would take my young, impressionable children into a room alone and trick them into saying something they didn't understand. I was legitimately scared of that, because of all the stories I heard!

 

Now that my kids are older I'm not scared and wouldn't have a problem letting them in, I have nothing to hide. Now I know my kids would look at them like :001_huh::001_huh: if they asked certain things. But the whole deal still makes me nervous because of the horror stories. I also heard a statistic that in our little town we have something like 400 kids a MONTH going into foster care. WTH?? We have a lot of meth use but I wouldn't imagine that would account for THAT many kids...what on earth is going on?

 

That's the thing though, isn't it? We've ALL heard the stories but where did they happen? When? To whom? who was circulating these stories and what information wtas left out?

 

Using such information to make decisions is useless. It could be they happened in a specific county with issues of corruption or perhaps 30 years ago. Or maybe the stories leave out key details that would cast the stories in a different light. We need to look closer and decide if these stories really have any relevence for us and stop letting them frighten us. We're generally keen on teaching our kids proper research and thinking skills on this board; we should exercise those skills ourselves. :)

 

I'm not worried myself. I'd probably invite the investigator in.

[Laura Corin]

Hmm. I wouldn't answer my door in the first place. I don't open my door to strangers unless there's a big, brown truck at the curb. Come back with someone in uniform and then we'll chat. Outside.

 

Do you live in a particularly difficult area?

 

Laura

[Greenmama2]

This is something I have difficulty with because I am still dealing with trauma from our year long battle with CPS which finally wrapped up two years ago.

 

Snip.

 

It was very traumatic and helpless and awful. Having been through all that, I read this question and really thought about what I would do should that happen again. (Besides try not to fall apart.) Based on my experience and the advice of the lawyer whom we love, I would let them in. I would record their visit. I would not let them speak to my children without someone else present - be it a lawyer or a close friend. And if they needed to speak to me, again, I would have an advocate ideally or at least record it. Because they are most often good people trying to do a job, but sometime they aren't.

 

I remember your battle from another board :grouphug: Honestly, I am quite terrified because of it.

[Soror]

Do you live in a particularly difficult area?

 

Laura

 

I don't think it is surprising, although not everyone is this way. Some people think anyone on their property is a threat, regardless of who it is. This is where I live rurally as well, which has a very, very low crime rate. I have no idea of how that is in the city.

[Kathryn]

Hmm. I wouldn't answer my door in the first place. I don't open my door to strangers unless there's a big, brown truck at the curb. Come back with someone in uniform and then we'll chat. Outside.

 

Me too. I only open the door for people I know.

 

I've heard enough horror stories to be worried. Yes, the majority are just doing their jobs, but there are bad ones out there. And with the power they have, I'm wary of inviting that into my life. Once I was sure that the person on my doorstep really was a CPS worker, I'd probably determine my actions based on their attitude. I might or might not let them in. I would not under any circumstances let them speak to my children alone. My ODS is autistic with sensory issues and his thoughts are completely outside the norm on things that happen (like a gentle nudge on the back to get his attention to move forward in line, in his mind is him being punched). I would want a medical professional who is familiar with his issues present.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

I recently had cps here. I was working my rear end off at the county fair, on pavement, all day parking cars. I get a call the first day that i have to meet with a social worker that day.

 

I run home, beg ds not to say anything inappropriate, and wait for her. She asked to see how the kids would be feeding themselves, what are the phone and door rules, and asked to add her number to the emergency contact list. She also asked ds if he was scared being home alone (with dd) and seemed surprised at his response. He said it was awesome! Unlimited electronics and no chores. Lol.

 

The fair is over, i am no longer neglecting the kids, and am just waiting to get this thing closed out.

[Kathryn]

Do you live in a particularly difficult area?

 

Laura

 

I don't. Mine probably stems from growing up a mile from the maximum security prison where death row inmates were housed. It didn't have a fence around it until I was about ten. Helicopters searching for escaped inmates were an often enough occurrence that to this day, that's still my first assumption about what a low-flying helicopter is doing. I remember the bloodhounds tracking to the crawls pace under our house. I remember looking out of my kitchen window when home alone to see two men in orange jumpsuits hiding in the ditch behind my house.

[jelbe5]

I am a social worker. I believe most of us are good, sane people.

 

BUT some who get into this profession have "issues" and/or an agenda.

 

I had a client many years ago where possible s@x abuse was suspected. I was a relatively new social worker. A supervisor became involved and, in one day, that child was yanked from her home. She was then in the system and began a process of being bounced around from placement to placement. To this day I still regret that situation. The abuse was suspected, not confirmed. When it comes to these situations you are guilty until you can prove innocence.

 

The average length of time it takes to get your kid back once taken is 18 months.

 

We were in a situation last December where we were accused of abuse towards our son who has autism. If DCFS had come I would not have let them in. We did take our son to his doctor so she could examine him and document that there were no signs of physical abuse/neglect. If DCFS had come I would have referred them to his doctor. I would not have allowed my son to be interviewed unless court ordered and with legal counsel present because my son, due to his autism and echolalia is easily influenced and would need to be questioned by someone VERY experienced and aware of autism spectrum disorders. Most social workers are not experts in interview techniques and do not know how to question in a non-leading way.

 

Fortunately, DCFS never came to the door. But it was nerve-wracking to be on the other side . . .

Edited August 14, 2012 by jelbe5

[Kathryn]

I am a social worker. I believe most of us are good, sane people.

 

BUT some who get into this profession have "issues" and/or an agenda.

 

I had a client many years ago where possible s@x abuse was suspected. I was a relatively new social worker. A supervisor became involved and, in one day, that child was yanked from her home. She was then in the system and began a process of being bounced around from placement to placement. To this day I still regret that situation. The abuse was suspected, not confirmed. When it comes to these situations you are guilty until you can prove innocence.

 

The average length of time it takes to get your kid back once taken is 18 months.

 

We were in a situation last December where we were accused of abuse towards our son who has autism. If DCFS had come I would not have let them in. We did take our son to his doctor so she could examine him and document that there were no signs of physical abuse/neglect. If DCFS had come I would have referred them to his doctor. I would not have allowed my son to be interviewed unless court ordered and with legal counsel present because my son, due to his autism and echolalia is easily influenced and would need to be questioned by someone VERY experienced and aware of autism spectrum disorders. Most social workers are not experts in interview techniques and do not know how to question in a non-leading way.

 

Fortunately, DCFS never came to the door. But it was nerve-wracking to be on the other side . . .

 

This would be my concern with my autistic son as well.

[*Lulu*]

First, if anyone shows up at my door and I didn't call them they are greeted by my loud and crazy 40-50lb dogs. I will happily crate my dogs after I have called and confirmed the person at my door is legit. (My FIL, who works for a police dept., told me a long time ago that any good officer will be happy to wait while you confirm he is on official business.) Until I make that call though we will be conversing through the screen door over the vicious barking of my security team.

 

Second, I would have no problem allowing CPS in my home. Even on its worst day, my home is safer and cleaner than most of the homes CPS investigates in our city. I am educating my crew, and providing all of thier basic needs and then some. There is no violence or abuse in our home, and I have nothing to fear from a case worker seeing a sink of unwashed dishes or a few dust bunnies in this dust trap of a house. I would not, however, allow my children to be interviewed without someone we trust present. If CPS would not be agreeable to a family friend or trusted church member that the kids are comfortable with sitting in, then we would all have to just wait until we could retain a lawyer.

[Ravin]

I'm just wrapping up an externship at one of the county legal offices that provides legal representation to parents who have had their children taken by CPS or had a depenency filed against them (which can be done while keeping the child in the home).

 

First thing I'd likely do if CPS came to my door is have a chat with them outside, even if it's 115 out. I'd ask them what the allegations are (they have to tell you). If my house wasn't a disaster area (like it is now), I'd probably let them in after that, to my living room anyway. I would decline to let them speak to my child alone, but offer to have them do so with me or a third party present--such as a member of DD's therapy team. I would provide the name of their doctor and where DD goes for mental health services IF asked. If I could do anything in the visit that could easily lay allegations to rest, I would do so.

 

The cases I've seen this summer are all after a child is taken--that's the point at which you are appointed an attorney if you can't afford one in Arizona. This is NOT true in all states; this is a state-granted right, not a Constitutional one when it comes to dependency. My sister recently had to deal with CPS in Texas and had no attorney--her case took much longer than it should have because her social worker was listening to her crazy MIL too much (who is a long time hoarder and was blaming my sister for sister's DH's suicide). Fortunately my nephew's ad litem and CASA ganged up on CPS and got them to wrap it up and give my nephew back to her.

 

Between my sister's experience and my externship, I've learned a lot this summer. I'd definitely get on the phone and hire an attorney as soon as CPS left, assuming I could afford to. If I couldn't, I'd be on the phone to one of the attorneys I know soliciting free advice!

[Parrothead]

I'm an Scots-Irish redhead with a temper. The last thing I need is to speak to someone about some stupid unfounded allegation. My temper would flare and it would be a disaster. (Dh doesn't let me go to the DMV anymore.;)) I would not let them in.

 

(CPS is housed behind my house. My back yard butts up to their parking lot. If they wanted to know what is going on in my house all they'd have to do is get a pair of binocs. :D)

[Soror]

I don't think most people are a threat, but 99.99% of those who come to my door I don't want to talk to anyway because they are either trying to sell something or talk to me about their religion. I have no nearby family or friends who would just pop on over. So what's the point? I simply don't want to be bothered and I think I have every right to that.

 

I live in a city. The houses are very close together.

 

It is anyone's right to do what they wish. Around here people I know that don't open the door, barricade property etc do so because they see everyone as a threat. As a said I have no experience with city living. I don't get a lot of stops but every now and again people get lost and I end up giving directions that is usually our only unsolicited visitors and they don't usually come to the door as I generally meet people outside when I don't know who they are.

[happyhomemaker25]

and you know you haven't done anything wrong, what should you do? My dh and I were discussing this, and to be honest I have no idea what the "right" answer is. The podcast he was listening to said to never, ever let them in, and immediately call your attorney. Of course, this organization offers a legal service that you can sign up for in advance, so if you have the foresight to plan ahead you can just give them a call. :rolleyes:

 

Just curious what the right answer is, or if there even is a right answer.

 

I can only speak from my experience. The CPS worker at my door had no business being there except to stir up trouble. Her "claim" was from four years prior and involved a 4yo boy who'd left my home way back then. He'd been in 4 other foster homes since then. In her own words she found out I homeschooled when she went looking for my kids to interview without my knowledge and just KNEW something was up and she better check it out. Believe you me that girl did not cross my thresh hold even when she called the police in. The officer asked her exactly what he was supposed to do since she did not have a court order. He totally told us we did not have to let her in. She showed up here already hostile and got mad when I told her I would not talk to her until I called my lawyer and DH came home. I offered her a bottle of water because it was hot outside and then shut and locked my door.

After two more unproductive visits from her she was allowed to talk to one of my kids on the front porch with me right there on advise from my lawyer. One question was so very leading I said, "Ok, we're done and put my kid back in the house." I won't go into details but she basically told my 8yo the answer she was looking for and coached her to answer it with me standing right there. The police officer was off to the side and he heard it and told me after she left that I did the right thing. He gave me his cell phone number and told me if I reported her for that he would back me up. We got a phone call the next day that our case was closed and unwarranted.

You do what you are comfortable with. She was so hostile when she showed up and then made the comment about homeschooling I was not willing to risk her coming in and making stuff up. I'm sorry to the good social workers but having been foster parents we met some pretty sleazy social workers who were not above lying to make their case or even make their load easier. I had some good ones as well, but I learned quick not to trust any of them until they'd earned that trust.

Honestly, had she shown up and said, "Look this allegation is from a kid that lived here 4 years ago and was a preschooler at the time. I just need to do my job and check it out." I don't know what would have happened. Had she been a little polite or just not ready to pass judgement as soon as I opened my door things might have gone differently.

It is your home and it is a protected place in our country.

[swellmomma]

When we went through our hullabaloo with CPS back in the city I let them in because I figured even though the house was a mess (we had been very very sick for almost 2 months and had done very little cleaning) the kids were well cared for. Never again. I was accused of sexual abuse for breastfeeding my then 2 yr old. I was told if I was married or I put my kids into ps they would close the file. But as a single mom there was no way I was properly schooling and raising my kids on my own due to their issues. The dr's, health dept(because of the bfing), school board etc all backed me up. I never lost my kids but was threatened with it weekly. I was stuck dealing with these idiots 1-2 times a week for a year. They over stepped bounds, they threatened me etc. The first worker at least interviewed my kids in the kitchen with me just in the livingroom, in earshot and where if they were leading them I could intervene, but the second one that started in when we moved, made me bring them to a big office and took them to a separate room and I was left in a locked room without them. She started investigating me because when we moved the first worker from the city wrote a letter that I was dangerous and skipping town blah blah blah, she was supposed to send the file to the new office within 2 weeks but didn't for months so the new office reopened the file brand new and started back to step 1 of investigating me. That worker was hostile with an agenda from the start. But both of them from 2 different cities were very against alternative living (extending bfing, co sleeping, hsing, etc)

 

My saving grace was a being registered with my school board that year as blended which meant though we homeschooled we were legally considered pt psers. And we go for frequent well child check ups, in fact due to ds's behaviours we had been going to the ped every 3 months just to check in. That meant a huge file of proof my kids were never abused/neglected.

 

I was told repeatedly they knew I never harmed my kids but they didn't feel done until I was willing to put my kids into ps

[Dory]

I've had CPS on my doorstep a few times now. It just goes smoother to let them in and talk to them calmly. In ever had a problem with having them in and talking adult to adult. My big problem was when they went into the school and pulled my kids to talk to them without my knowledge. That bothers me.

[mommymilkies]

Nm

Edited August 15, 2012 by mommymilkies

[melmichigan]

As a homeschooler, not someone who does foster care or something similar where visits from CPS might be expected, you absolutely do not let them in without a warrent. Not even if they're standing there with a police officer. Just ask Shirley Calabretta, a homeschooler in California who got that visit. She says now that she wishes she had not only closed the door when she told the social worker that she wouldn't let them in without a warrent but that she had closed and locked the door so the cop would have had to break the door down, so she'd have proof.

 

No warrant, no entrance.

 

Can you link anything on this outside of HSLDA type testimonials please? I am keeping in mind that this was 1995.

[swellmomma]

We had this happen. We were polite and allowed them in, did everything they asked. I felt violated and like I had no rights. Sure I could have said no, but they told me (and I know of this happening) they would take my children. It was horrible and I feel like I have PTSD from it, honestly. I cried for months afterwards because I know I was innocent-heck, we don't even use time out or spank!. And yet they could have taken my kids and I couldn't have done a thing. I lost my faith in CPS that day.

 

I did ask them for identification before I allowed them in, since there were 2 recent burglaries in my neighborhood and I was alone with kids when they came. The charge was crazy and ridiculous (that my dh kicked my lo down the stairs-never happened and we didn't even friggin HaVE stairs!). They even said that when they showed up that the allegation was obviously false, but since a case was now open, they had to investigate. We homeschooled, so they had to investigate that. We didn't vas, so they had to talk to our (supportive) doctor. We co-slept, which meant we had to buy a crib for our one year old in an 800 sq ft apt with nowhere to put it because some drunk parent smoothed her infant she rolled on a couple months back. No joke. I still feel violated.

 

eTA: we were not the only homeschooling family in our county investigated recently to our case. Our school district is notoriously anti-hs.

 

I am sure I do. Just the threat of someone saying they want to call CPS on us (someone on our street threatened it recently because my kids were fighting with hers) puts me into a full on panic. I still get nightmares etc from it all. I still co-sleep, still homeschool, still breastfed when they finally closed the case. I am a fighter and I came out claws out going for the throat. I won in the end and my kids are still here and we are still doing what we do BUT it really cost my sanity to do so.

[pfamilygal]

Erased for privacy (dh's request)

Edited August 15, 2012 by pfamilygal

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

When we first moved to this house (we moved in Feb and this happened in Sept after the PS started) they came to our house. One of our WONDERFUl :glare: neighbors called them saying 'their kids are not in school and out destroying the neighborhood and her kids always had bruises'... ummm yeah. Anyways- they came during a (THANKFULLY) very quiet and cooperative time with the kids. I opened the door- they told me who they were and why they were there. Ofcourse they did not tell me it it was a neighbor who called but I pretty much know who it was.

 

Anyways- I told them that we homeschool, showed them my compliance letter from the school board. They asked to come in but I told them no. I told them we were not doing anything wrong and I proved it with my letter (and they could see my grammar posters all over the wall and the kids working-- at the time boys were watching a Leap Frog video) They asked to talk to the kids and I let them do that but only with me there (I was behind though so they knew I wasn't 'feeding' my kids answers.) We stepped outside for them to talk. Ds now 2nd IS always full of bruises. He bruises VERY easily. When he learned to ride his bike you would have thought he was a severely abused kid :001_huh: They talked to the kids (ds has autism and was at the time undiagnosed.. they didn't get much from him) but dd's told them a lot. There were 2 agents that came to the door. 1 stood by my and the other talked to the kids (maybe 5 ft in front of me)

 

It was VERY scary but nothing happened. They smiled when leaving saying I had nothing to worry about (ya think????) A week (or so) later I got a letter in the mail saying everything has been dropped.

 

 

The same neighbor called 2 more times with the exact same complaint. They came out every time with a similar experience and I reminded them of the previous times. Then I guess my neighbor got bored or found somebody else to dwell on.

 

It is scary but you can cooperate without letting them invade your house. If they don't see anything wrong by looking at what they can see from your doorstep then they can't force themselves in. Only if they see a dangerous situation or filthy conditions can they force you to let them in. They will do that by getting police there with a warrant. It takes CPS no time at all to get that to happen. (I did a LOT of research after that first time :glare:)

 

Not sure if we have a 'record' with them but we still have our letters from all 3 times just in case!

Edited August 14, 2012 by wy_kid_wrangler04

[ocelotmom]

I've heard the "don't let them in" advice, but I have a hard time imagining our experiences with CPS (autism-related, which seems to be common, and unfounded) having gone as smoothly if we hadn't been open and cooperative. However, we had decent social workers.

Edited August 14, 2012 by ocelotmom

[Ellie]

Can you link anything on this outside of HSLDA type testimonials please? I am keeping in mind that this was 1995.

I heard with my own ears Shirley Calabretta say this with her own mouth, sitting four feet away from her in a small room. Does that count?

 

Also, I'm fuzzy on why the year it happened makes any difference to the truth of the story, which is, after all, public record.

 

And just because you don't like HSLDA does not mean that HSLDA made this up, for crying out loud.

[Ellie]

OP, thank you for starting this thread. I HATE that those idiots at HSLDA give out this horrible advice!

 

If CPS comes to your door with a police officer then chances are they DO have a warrant, but for a typical investigation they come to your house without a warrant and police. A warrant is only if they have evidence that a child is in IMMEDIATE DANGER. (A relative calling to say that they think you aren't really homeschoooling your kids is NOT immediate danger.) (In OK it's not really a warrant, but a Pick-Up Order signed by a judge. It has to be executed by a police officer.)

No, in fact, they are not always going to have a warrant, because they assume that people will not know their Constitutional rights. Their biggest weapon is fear, and they use it for all its worth.

 

People really come off as paranoid nutjobs when they call a lawyer just because CPS comes to their door. I used to work for CPS and my job was to do the initial investigation and, I'm telling you this, if I showed up for a routine investigation and people were all, "OMG, BRING BACK A WARRANT IF YOU WANT IN! I'M CALLING MY LAWYER!!" it would raise HUGE red flags.

 

Seriously? So, if a social worker shows up on your doorstep with a cop but no warrant, based on an anonymous tip made a couple of weeks before, and wants to come in and *strip search* your children, you're ok with that?

[I.Dup.]

See, we have horror stories even here on this thread! Are those not legit? My anxiety level goes up just reading these stories.

 

For those that do not answer your door, do you just try to act like no one is home? We have a window right on our front door that we use to see who is outside, and whoever is outside can easily see inside if we are walking around, etc. Would you just look through a window and refuse to answer?

 

The problem I have heard if you do not let them in is that they just come back and it is recorded in the file that you did not let them in, which looks even worse. It's not like they'll just go away forever if you don't let them in.

[Denisemomof4]

Can you link anything on this outside of HSLDA type testimonials please? I am keeping in mind that this was 1995.

 

If you do your research, there is a woman wjo heads a CPS Watchdog group. Her kids were taken from her for being unsupervised and her oldest son was watching them along with a friend of his. (if my memory is correct) They were 14 years old at the time. The baby was around 1 when he was taken and placed in foster care, where baby was beaten so badly that he is blind and has seizures to this day. I believe her name is Cheryl Barnes.

[Parker Martin]

Sheesh! Are CPS visits really so common? I've never heard of anyone getting a CPS visit around here.

[Ellie]

See, we have horror stories even here on this thread! Are those not legit? My anxiety level goes up just reading these stories.

 

For those that do not answer your door, do you just try to act like no one is home? We have a window right on our front door that we use to see who is outside, and whoever is outside can easily see inside if we are walking around, etc. Would you just look through a window and refuse to answer?

 

The problem I have heard if you do not let them in is that they just come back and it is recorded in the file that you did not let them in, which looks even worse. It's not like they'll just go away forever if you don't let them in.

You don't have to *not* open your door. There's no need for that level of fear. :)

 

When my children were little, they were not allowed to answer the phone or the door. It wasn't that I was fearful; it's just that IMHO, it is not the children's job to do either one. You teach your children that it is *your* job to answer the phone or the door, and that they are not to come running and crowd around you at the front door. That's just rude. You also teach them that if you happen not to be home, or are unavailable, they do not answer the door. That's just smart. When you answer the door, if it happens to be a social worker, you talk with her pleasantly but decline to allow her to come into your house question your children. You could allow her to see them, but no, she may not come in. You have a constitutional right to forbid anyone to enter your home who does not have a warrant. If she wants to go back and put that in her record, let her.

 

Shirley Calabretta will be forever thankful that she was a member of HSLDA (they took her case not because it was a homeschooling issue, which it wasn't, but that it was such a violation of her civil rights). HSLDA called Social Services and reminded them that the social worker did not have the authority to enter Shirley's home or to strip-search her children. They said that they didn't care. HSLDA said they'd have to take it to court; they said go ahead, we'll win. They didn't, and so they appealed. HSLDA won the appeal. Shirley was awarded a nice settlement. :-) And yes, I heard this with my own ears.

[FaithManor]

I would not let them in without a warrant served by the sheriff. This is on advice of our sheriff's department which has recently had a few run-ins with CPS having "egos the size of Texas". A dear friend with a foster license had a case worker steal money off the dresser! She is no longer a case worker, but it drove home the concept that strangers are strangers and it doesn't matter whether they come with a public credential or not - you don't let strangers wander through your home. The police and sheriff are sworn to protect and serve and while that doesn't make them impervious to corruption, it's not nearly as likely given the vetting process and the checks and balances in that system that other government agencies do not appear to have. I would watch the cable man like a hawk, or the plumber, or the electrician...said CPS worker will be watched too.

 

By in large, I think most CPS workers are great people and would not be doing this very thankless job if they did not care about children. It's the few "rum-uns" (to coin a country colloquialism) that cause all the problems. Of course, when they show up on your doorstep, you don't have any idea which kind you are dealing with and without some legal protection from the sheriff or state police, I am inclined to treat with healthy skepticism until I have reason to believe otherwise.

 

My brother and his wife were constantly turned in on false charges by his ex. The caseworker was a wonderful help to them and eventually got he ex in trouble with the law for the constant lies. She was pulled into family court and the judge read her the riot act and told my brother he should file a civil harassment suit against her for damages. The caseworker said she'd be more than happy to testify. That ended it. So, in my book, she was definitely one of the good ones! She cared enough about my nephews to help put an end to the crazy!

 

Faith

[Ellie]

Sheesh! Are CPS visits really so common? I've never heard of anyone getting a CPS visit around here.

No, they're not so common, thankfully. Shirley's story was the worst one I know of (which of course ended so satisfactorily), but I did know someone in Santa Cruz, California, who had a nasty run-in with CPS (I don't remember how it went; that was in 1987, and I didn't know her well).

 

So, no, they're not that common, but we should still all know our Constitutional rights, yes? :)

[cindergretta]

When ds9 was 3, a new neighbor on the street called CPS on us. (I had lived there for several years at that point and I knew and was friendly with all of our neighbors.) Anyway, I was cleaning out my van and ds ran into the (extremely quiet and small street) and ds18 (then 12) ran out in one direction while I ran in the other to "cut him off" and grabbed him. That was on a Friday. On Monday, CPS was at my door with a report that my ds was "running in the dangerous and busy street multiple times unsupervised." :001_huh: Dh was home so I let the social worker in. I asked her if she honesty thought the street on which we lived was busy at all. (The only traffic was cars who lived on the street. It was short and didn't go anywhere, kwim?) I asked her if the caller was so concerned, why didn't they get my ds out of the street instead of calling CPS. She said that the report said I retrieved him from the street! (Which begs the question - WHY ARE YOU HERE???) She never looked at any of our house at all except the living room where she was sitting. She talked with my dc, but it was very conversational and dh and I were there. She left and we received a certified letter stating the allegations were unfounded. Duh! I was shaken and rattled horrifically after that but it really wasn't actually traumatic. I think all the horror stories didn't help but rather made it bigger than it was.

 

OTOH, dh's ex (with whom we are friends) was at work one night when her ds7 called the police because he thought he was home alone. Dss was babysitting but he has Aspergers and was plugged into his computer downstairs. The police showed up and found the house an unholy disaster, filthy, with a baby in a dirty diaper, and the daughter showed the police an exposed wire (and shocked herself on it in the process.) The police called CPS who came out several days later. In the interim, the baby burned his whole palm on a stove burner. CPS found there to be no issues in the home and closed the investigation.

 

Those are my limited experiences with CPS. Could something horrific happen? Yes, it could. Is it likely? Not really. CPS must do millions of investigations a day and out of all of those, there are actually very extremely few horror stories of innocent people being ravaged. It happens, to be sure. But I am no more worried about that than I am about being wrongfully arrested and convicted of a crime I didn't commit. It happens. But it is so rare as to not make my list of "Things to Worry About." :001_smile:

[sunnylady303]

See, we have horror stories even here on this thread! Are those not legit? My anxiety level goes up just reading these stories.

 

 

As the survivor of one of the horror stories, I still believe openness and a conciliatory attitude are the best ways to begin. I would be much quicker to take a stand than I was before.

 

Because mostly they are good people doing a tough job.

 

And there are nightmares out there but bad things happen sometimes with anything. I would rather approach these things in a grace filled way while not letting anyone hurt my children.

 

Everyone has to do what they feel best about. But for me, I would rather operate out of hope. Cautious hope, but hope. I will always have an advocate if I must speak with someone from CPS but even after my nightmare I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

[justLisa]

See, we have horror stories even here on this thread! Are those not legit? My anxiety level goes up just reading these stories.

 

For those that do not answer your door, do you just try to act like no one is home? We have a window right on our front door that we use to see who is outside, and whoever is outside can easily see inside if we are walking around, etc. Would you just look through a window and refuse to answer?

 

The problem I have heard if you do not let them in is that they just come back and it is recorded in the file that you did not let them in, which looks even worse. It's not like they'll just go away forever if you don't let them in.

 

I have those stupid side lights, too. You can see straight down into the middle of the downstairs, but nothing to the sides so not too bad. If I am sitting on my computer and the kids on the couch, no one is seen.

 

I have no problem answering the door. It is not out of fear. I just simply do NOT want to talk to people trying to sell me a green lawn or an alarm system for the billionth time. I have peek out, noticed it is someone I do not wish to speak with, and just go about my business. What are they going to do, knock for an hour or kick the door? Then I would call the police and of course they'd be on camera because we have cameras ALL OVER. And no one wants to be on tape.

 

I once had an FBI agent knock on my door at 9:30 pm in the rain and wearing a trench coat. I never would have had DH not been there. Apparently she is investigating a neighbor, with a drug op, 7 months pregnant and on the run. NOTHING interesting every happens here, but that freaked me out.

[Farrar]

Some of these stories are so awful! :confused:

 

They really are. And I know they're rare, but still. Which is why I take exception to the fact that some people have tried to say that if you don't let them in or are worried about how they perceive you, you're being paranoid. CPS people are used to being pushy, to putting that threat of taking your children out there, to just being mean - because their job genuinely calls for it most of the time and they deal with a lot of messed up people. But sometimes they carry that too far.

 

In all the cases people are relating, the kids were not taken and in the end, reason prevailed and I think that's the case virtually every time, but not before parents have to deal with a lot of anxiety, fear, threats, and sometimes even have to put out money for a lawyer. And homeschooling does make us more suspicious in the eyes of CPS.

[justLisa]

This is making me really glad I avoid people. I can't imagine how/why I'd ever get a CPS visit. But since it seems it stems from someone "turning you in," that is scary.

[Snickerdoodle]

Someone was telling me that an acquaintance was investigated by cps, and the case was closed as unfounded. However, the person said that even so, you're "on record" at cps for 10years (or something like that).

 

Is that true?

[Ellie]

As the survivor of one of the horror stories, I still believe openness and a conciliatory attitude are the best ways to begin. I would be much quicker to take a stand than I was before.

 

Because mostly they are good people doing a tough job.

 

And there are nightmares out there but bad things happen sometimes with anything. I would rather approach these things in a grace filled way while not letting anyone hurt my children.

 

Everyone has to do what they feel best about. But for me, I would rather operate out of hope. Cautious hope, but hope. I will always have an advocate if I must speak with someone from CPS but even after my nightmare I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

I would be conciliatory, too...while the social worker was standing on my front porch, because she's just not coming in without a warrant. ;-)

[Lori C- Texas]

The crazy people that use to live behind us called CPS on us about 10 years ago. They didn't like the way we kept our backyard. They use to come over all the time whining about how we need to stain our fence or we shouldn't have a garden and other stupid things. We ignored their suggestions. So they called CPS. Said our dd that was 5 at the time was always out front by herself, that we had animal feces all over our house, mice, and our house smelled horrible. They had never even been in our home!!

 

The CPS worker that came said that over half of their cases are from neighbors that get mad at each other and one ends up calling CPS. The worker told us she was not worried about the charges but had to check things out just in case.

 

Scared me to death! I was actually at the hospital having our third child when the worker left her card on our door! So, I was already tired and emotional from giving birth and then having to deal with CPS!! We got a letter from CPS that said we were cleared of all charges a month or so later.