If CPS comes to your door...

[Pink Fairy]

and you know you haven't done anything wrong, what should you do? My dh and I were discussing this, and to be honest I have no idea what the "right" answer is. The podcast he was listening to said to never, ever let them in, and immediately call your attorney. Of course, this organization offers a legal service that you can sign up for in advance, so if you have the foresight to plan ahead you can just give them a call. :rolleyes:

 

Just curious what the right answer is, or if there even is a right answer.

[peachskittles]

If I remember correctly, you are never supposed to deny them access. If they come to the door, you politely answer the door, let them talk and look around and kindly escort them back out the door. I've always gotten a call before CPS came to visit me though. If I'm remembering the situation correctly for one incident, I wasn't home to answer their call so they came with the sheriff the next day. If I was supposed to argue about them entering, I didn't. :tongue_smilie: Seeing a sheriff at your front door makes you willing to do more than you normally would. Another time CPS was to come over, they scheduled it for a week later. Now, really, if I was a danger to my children, would you schedule a home visit a week later? :confused:

 

I'm not sure of the "right" answer but I try my hardest to avoid CPS. They do help in some situations but other times....eh, they have too much on their plates to think clearly sometimes.

[JMDRAD]

I've always figured that NOBODY has any business being in my house without a warrant of some sort. Never had an issue with CPS though and really haven't given it much thought.

[DawnM]

I thought it was the opposite, you DO NOT let them in and demand to see proof of a warrant or some other reason they are there. You politely but firmly tell them to leave your house.

[Gentlemommy]

I thought it was the opposite, you DO NOT let them in and demand to see proof of a warrant or some other reason they are there. You politely but firmly tell them to leave your house.

 

This is what I've heard as well. If they think the children are in real danger, they are welcome to stand outside and wait for a warrant and police escort while I go inside and contact my lawyer. :001_smile:And I'd video them the entire time, as proof of exactly what they are seeing and what the concerns were.

[Pamela H in Texas]

I let them in each time it has been an issue (once when my dd was a baby and twice as foster parents).

 

I *will* say that investigators are pretty good at recognizing when allegations are some sort of stupidity (vindictiveness, misunderstanding, difference in beliefs, etc).

[sweetbasil]

I thought it was the opposite, you DO NOT let them in and demand to see proof of a warrant or some other reason they are there. You politely but firmly tell them to leave your house.

 

This is what I understand as well. It's fine to bring your children to the door just to show the worker that they are okay, but you're not to allow them entry, interviews, etc.

[AK_Mom4]

Here, CPS does not make unannounced first visits without a uniformed police officer or state trooper with them. So, if someone showed up at my door alone and claimed to be from CPS, I would ask them politely to return with an officer or they could wait outside until one showed up because I was calling the police. There are too many crazies out there in the world to let someone into your house because they claim to be from CPS.

 

If they came to the door unannounced with a uniformed officer, I would just invite them both in. We had several visits from CPS when we were doing emergency foster care but all of those were arranged in advance via phone.

[besroma]

I thought it was the opposite, you DO NOT let them in and demand to see proof of a warrant or some other reason they are there. You politely but firmly tell them to leave your house.

 

I think this is what the HSLDA recommends.

[redsquirrel]

Well, I used to work alongside CPS (not an investigator, but a child advocate) and most of the time, if CPS is there and you don't know why then they are there either because of a mistake or something like that.

 

If they showed up and wanted to talk to ME then I would do so. I would prob offer to meet with them at their office or on the porch or something. I am not sure I would invite them in... it could go either way. If I knew I had nothing to worry about I would prob let them in.

 

If they show up and ask to speak to my kids, without telling me what it is about, I would prob have to let them do so. In my state CPS can talk to kids named in a report without their parents permission IF that parent is the subject of the investigation or very close to the subject (as in married to the subject). If I denied access things could get messy.

 

That said, I worked with CPS and know what it is like. CPS investigators, at least the ones in my county, are just regular people. They are parents and they have a job to do. It is a really difficult heartbreaking job. I was offered the job and I turned it down. I have been present for removals and agreed with every single one.

 

People think that all CPS does is remove kids from their parents. That is their option of last resort. First of all, it is very expensive to remove kids. Second of all, foster parents are hard to come by. It might surprise you to know just how bad things can get before children are removed.

[Joker]

I had them show up once and was so surprised that I let them in. A neighbor thought the kids were home alone. We were new to the area and only had one car since dh worked close by, but instead of knocking on the door they just called the police. :glare: I have been told since that I should not have let them in, but the CPS woman showed up with two police officers and I just wanted them to know I wasn't guilty of anything so I let them in. They looked around, woke up younger from her nap, took pictures, and then sent a letter that we were cleared. It was not a fun experience and I never was able to let myself be close with our neighbors after that. I was so glad when we moved.

[Pink Fairy]

I let them in each time it has been an issue (once when my dd was a baby and twice as foster parents).

 

I *will* say that investigators are pretty good at recognizing when allegations are some sort of stupidity (vindictiveness, misunderstanding, difference in beliefs, etc).

 

That's what I was wondering, if it would even be productive to deny them entrance or if you'd only be exacerbating the problem. According to the podcast, if you let CPS in they will then want to interview your children alone, and may ask leading questions that will put inappropriate ideas in their minds (i.e., does your father/uncle/brother ever touch your ****), thus causing damage where there wasn't any before.

 

I know, it sounds like fear mongering to me too, which is why I'm wondering if it's true.

[redsquirrel]

That's what I was wondering, if it would even be productive to deny them entrance or if you'd only be exacerbating the problem. According to the podcast, if you let CPS in they will then want to interview your children alone, and may ask leading questions that will put inappropriate ideas in their minds (i.e., does your father/uncle/brother ever touch your ****), thus causing damage where there wasn't any before.

 

I know, it sounds like fear mongering to me too, which is why I'm wondering if it's true.

 

that is BAD and unprofessional interviewing. 20 years ago when I started in my job, that was old fashioned and BAD. It would get a worker fired in 2 mins if they asked a question like that. Any newbie investigator knows NOT to ask questions like that. It ruins the case and will set the whole county up for a law suit.

 

Anyone who is warning about stuff like those types of questions is 25 years out of date. Are they warning you about those anatomical dolls as well? Those things got tossed out 20 years ago also.

 

In many states the interviews are recorded for the judge to see. It some cases it can save the victim from having to repeat a story multiple times. Any investigator who asked questions like that would not last long.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

OP, thank you for starting this thread. I HATE that those idiots at HSLDA give out this horrible advice!

 

If CPS comes to your door with a police officer then chances are they DO have a warrant, but for a typical investigation they come to your house without a warrant and police. A warrant is only if they have evidence that a child is in IMMEDIATE DANGER. (A relative calling to say that they think you aren't really homeschoooling your kids is NOT immediate danger.) (In OK it's not really a warrant, but a Pick-Up Order signed by a judge. It has to be executed by a police officer.)

 

People really come off as paranoid nutjobs when they call a lawyer just because CPS comes to their door. I used to work for CPS and my job was to do the initial investigation and, I'm telling you this, if I showed up for a routine investigation and people were all, "OMG, BRING BACK A WARRANT IF YOU WANT IN! I'M CALLING MY LAWYER!!" it would raise HUGE red flags.

[Farrar]

This is one of my fears and I don't think there's a right answer. I think 99 times in a hundred, you're probably better off to just let them look around, be cordial, answer their questions, etc. Because while you have the right to not let them in without a warrant, realistically things are just going to get complicated and most CPS people don't want to waste their time on you if it's obviously just some sort of mix up or a vindictive neighbor or something.

 

On the other hand, that one time in a hundred when someone is just out to nail people... Obviously you'd be better off to hold your ground and not give them the ammunition of whatever random things the kids are going to say to them, the undone dishes in the sink, the unfinished house project with the tools out, or whatever it is... So is it worth the risk of that small chance in order to get it over with and avoid the hassles or potentially making nothing into something worse?

 

ETA: I do think HSLDA fear-mongers this issue to death though.

[Denisemomof4]

That's what I was wondering, if it would even be productive to deny them entrance or if you'd only be exacerbating the problem. According to the podcast, if you let CPS in they will then want to interview your children alone, and may ask leading questions that will put inappropriate ideas in their minds (i.e., does your father/uncle/brother ever touch your ****), thus causing damage where there wasn't any before.

 

I know, it sounds like fear mongering to me too, which is why I'm wondering if it's true.

 

Our social worker who did our home study for our adoption did this. She asked leading questions about spanking while interviewing the kids alone, behind closed doors. She even asked if they were ever hit with a belt buckle. :001_huh: she asked dh and I if our church taught us how to discipline our kids.:001_huh: we spoke to a friend who was also an attorney, not for legal advice but just because the questions were bizarre. Our friend said he thought we were targetted by her because we homeschool. It was the only thing that made sense.

[higginszoo]

If they come with an officer and a warrant, that makes it easy. I've let an officer in before when the neighbors' alarm company gave him the wrong address (the neighbor's 3 year old had pressed the panic button on the silent alarm, so no indication for sure that it was the wrong address). He had to come in and check things out like a 911 hangup, no problem.

 

Without an officer and/or a warrant, I'd be a bit suspicious and I'd talk to them at the door, but have them make an appointment to come back later when I could have an attorney and/or my own witnesses present before having them come in. I have a couple of homeschooling neighbors, one of whom knows my children pretty well, so I could have her come over and witness probably.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

This is one of my fears and I don't think there's a right answer. I think 99 times in a hundred, you're probably better off to just let them look around, be cordial, answer their questions, etc. Because while you have the right to not let them in without a warrant, realistically things are just going to get complicated and most CPS people don't want to waste their time on you if it's obviously just some sort of mix up or a vindictive neighbor or something.

 

On the other hand, that one time in a hundred when someone is just out to nail people... Obviously you'd be better off to hold your ground and not give them the ammunition of whatever random things the kids are going to say to them, the undone dishes in the sink, the unfinished house project with the tools out, or whatever it is... So is it worth the risk of that small chance in order to get it over with and avoid the hassles or potentially making nothing into something worse?

 

ETA: I do think HSLDA fear-mongers this issue to death though.

 

Believe me, this sort of thing doesn't even register with CPS workers. They aren't looking for immaculate. They are looking for SAFE. So, right now, looking around my house I see: clean laundry folded, but not yet put away, a carpet that needs to be vacuumed, dinner not yet put away. What they would see is: clean laundry, evidence of recent food consumption, clean kids.

 

They get alarmed when they see stuff like this:

 

So much animal feces on the carpet that it is ground in and every step I took was into poop.

 

No unspoiled food in the fridge.

 

No food in the cupboards, but name brand cigarettes on the counter.

 

A razor blade and a pile of cat poop in the crib.

 

Baby with bottle in her mouth, but the milk was chunky.

 

Child with burn on her back in the shape of a clothes iron.

 

Dead dog in the tub crawling with maggots.

 

See how tools left out or remnants of the project and clean laundry just don't even register?

[FairyMom]

I've always figured that NOBODY has any business being in my house without a warrant of some sort. Never had an issue with CPS though and really haven't given it much thought.

 

:iagree:

[Pink Fairy]

Ack, I hate these contradictory answers. I need this is how it's done always and at all times answers. :tongue_smilie:

 

And it wasn't the HSDLA, it was something else (had heritage in the name, I think). But yeah, probably the same type, and as soon as my dh told me they provide a prepaid legal service they lost most of their credibility.

[NatashainDFW]

I dunno but a friend of ours had CPS called on her and the investigator would not close the case immediately because her dcs feet were dirty! The horror dirty feet in the middle of the day in the summer. I have seen CPS here jump the gun and would let them look into the windows and see the children through the windows but I do not want them in my house. I also am partly avoiding the public schools here because they will call CPS on a dime. Another family in our church had her children picked up by a CPS worker and taken 45 minutes away to be interviewed because their dd said she went to the doctor because her whoohaa hurt. Sorry but if the child had been to the doctor over it obviously her parents knew something was up and had sought medical advice. The child had a rash from not wiping well enough but then her mother had to explain what the people at CPS were talking about because they introduced ideas that the little girl had no idea about. Sadly the school had a doctor's note excusing the little girl from classes the day before so it was obvious she was being seen by a physician.

[Farrar]

 

See how tools left out or remnants of the project and clean laundry just don't even register?

 

But that's what I mean. I think that's true 99.9% of the time. But there are real stories of people who end up in bureaucratic h-e-hockeysticks over something totally misperceived by a neighbor and then...

 

But in the end, I think I would personally just let them in. No one talks to my kids without me in the room, but otherwise, I don't think I'd be able to stop myself from just being polite and open.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

Ack, I hate these contradictory answers. I need this is how it's done always and at all times answers. :tongue_smilie:

 

And it wasn't the HSDLA, it was something else (had heritage in the name, I think). But yeah, probably the same type, and as soon as my dh told me they provide a prepaid legal service they lost most of their credibility.

 

 

Follow the money. I do not know everything. I don't claim to be the expert, just sharing my experience, but follow who is trying to get your money. (Not other posters here, but, the 'heritage' society you mentioned.) I've heard of them, too. IMO, they are simply another HSLDA, another 'you need us just in case' type organization.

[Ellie]

As a homeschooler, not someone who does foster care or something similar where visits from CPS might be expected, you absolutely do not let them in without a warrent. Not even if they're standing there with a police officer. Just ask Shirley Calabretta, a homeschooler in California who got that visit. She says now that she wishes she had not only closed the door when she told the social worker that she wouldn't let them in without a warrent but that she had closed and locked the door so the cop would have had to break the door down, so she'd have proof.

 

No warrant, no entrance.

[Joanne]

That said, I worked with CPS and know what it is like. CPS investigators, at least the ones in my county, are just regular people. They are parents and they have a job to do. It is a really difficult heartbreaking job. I was offered the job and I turned it down. I have been present for removals and agreed with every single one.

 

People think that all CPS does is remove kids from their parents. That is their option of last resort. First of all, it is very expensive to remove kids. Second of all, foster parents are hard to come by. It might surprise you to know just how bad things can get before children are removed.

 

I worked as a therapist at a center in which most of the (adolescent) residents had been involved at some point with CPS. My experience is that it usually takes a LOT for CPS to remove the kids. So much so that most people would support taking the kids earlier.

 

In fact, I still see CPS clients (parents) and they are given LOTS of chances to keep their kids in situations that would make many of us go :001_huh:.

[kalanamak]

It might surprise you to know just how bad things can get before children are removed.

 

:iagree:

[Hope in God]

I would probably feel out the situation at the door. I would want to know what allegations they were following up. If it was bruises on a certain child or something of that nature I would bring the child to the door and they could have a look and talk to the child.

 

Now, if it was an excepional day and all the kids were doing what they were supposed to be doing and my house was spotless then by all means, come in a take photo's becuase I would also like a record of something that amazing.:D

[Saille]

Our social worker who did our home study for our adoption did this. She asked leading questions about spanking while interviewing the kids alone, behind closed doors. She even asked if they were ever hit with a belt buckle. :001_huh: she asked dh and I if our church taught us how to discipline our kids.:001_huh: we spoke to a friend who was also an attorney, not for legal advice but just because the questions were bizarre. Our friend said he thought we were targetted by her because we homeschool. It was the only thing that made sense.

 

I am betting it was backlash from Supernanny episodes with people who use the Pearls' method. That would explain the church question, as I seem to remember one specific mother saying that her church had taught her to do it.

[justLisa]

Believe me, this sort of thing doesn't even register with CPS workers. They aren't looking for immaculate. They are looking for SAFE. So, right now, looking around my house I see: clean laundry folded, but not yet put away, a carpet that needs to be vacuumed, dinner not yet put away. What they would see is: clean laundry, evidence of recent food consumption, clean kids.

 

They get alarmed when they see stuff like this:

 

So much animal feces on the carpet that it is ground in and every step I took was into poop.

 

No unspoiled food in the fridge.

 

No food in the cupboards, but name brand cigarettes on the counter.

 

A razor blade and a pile of cat poop in the crib.

 

Baby with bottle in her mouth, but the milk was chunky.

 

Child with burn on her back in the shape of a clothes iron.

 

Dead dog in the tub crawling with maggots.

 

See how tools left out or remnants of the project and clean laundry just don't even register?

 

Are you absolutely serious?! I wish I had not just read that :( I really like my happy bubble :crying:

[Mary in VA]

People really come off as paranoid nutjobs when they call a lawyer just because CPS comes to their door.

 

People ARE NOT "nutjobs" because they want legal advice when a government official shows up at their door to investigate them! I'm an attorney and if CPS showed up at my door I would be upset even though I know what they can and cannot do. The vast majority of people cannot think clearly in those circumstances.

 

To OP, CPS is required by law to tell you what the allegation is they are investigating. Knowing that helps you make a determination of what you want to do. They cannot come into your house without your permission if they don't have a warrant; our Constitution gives us that protection. Innocent people don't want their homes violated without clear cause to do so! DO NOT think you will be considered a "nutjob" because you don't want government authorities in your house without a warrant. They cannot use the fact that you are making them follow the law against you. It maybe that letting them in is the wise choice if the allegation is clearly unfounded and a quick look around would prove that and close the case. But never let them speak to your children or examine your children alone. If they want to do that you seriously need to call an attorney.

 

The Constitution protects all of us and it doesn't make us "nutjobs" or serve as evidence of guilt to stand on our rights!!!

 

Mary

[Mergath]

I would have no problem letting them in. My house is clean, my daughter is well cared for, and we're all happy and healthy.

 

Honestly, I'm just waiting for the day they show up. I'm a tattoed hippie Pagan in a very conservative, religious area. My car has already been vandalized three times by people who were apparently offended by my liberal bumper stickers, and I've had people come up and verbally attack me over them, as well. False accusations are probably next. ("Oh, you have to do something! The poor child is being raised by... by... Democrats!" :tongue_smilie:) But that's fine. CPS can sit in on our daily read aloud and have a slice of homemade bread. :D

[Joanne]

I dunno but a friend of ours had CPS called on her and the investigator would not close the case immediately because her dcs feet were dirty! The horror dirty feet in the middle of the day in the summer. I have seen CPS here jump the gun and would let them look into the windows and see the children through the windows but I do not want them in my house. I also am partly avoiding the public schools here because they will call CPS on a dime. Another family in our church had her children picked up by a CPS worker and taken 45 minutes away to be interviewed because their dd said she went to the doctor because her whoohaa hurt. Sorry but if the child had been to the doctor over it obviously her parents knew something was up and had sought medical advice. The child had a rash from not wiping well enough but then her mother had to explain what the people at CPS were talking about because they introduced ideas that the little girl had no idea about. Sadly the school had a doctor's note excusing the little girl from classes the day before so it was obvious she was being seen by a physician.

 

Sorry, but this content seems unlikely and exaggerated to me in light of my experience.

 

And being seen by a Doctor does not = not having been sexually violated.

[Denisemomof4]

I am betting it was backlash from Supernanny episodes with people who use the Pearls' method. That would explain the church question, as I seem to remember one specific mother saying that her church had taught her to do it.

 

I don't know but dh and I were beyond shocked, and that social worker made my kids feel VERY uncomfortable.

[NatashainDFW]

Sorry, but this content seems unlikely and exaggerated to me in light of my experience.

 

And being seen by a Doctor does not = not having been sexually violated.

 

It is very much not exaggerated and while I know being seen by a doctor does not mean a child has not been sexually violated but a simple note from the doctor would have explained the situation. Instead the children were transported nearly an hour away without the parents knowing what was going on. Believe me this area is known for having issues where CPS steps in when its not actually necessary.

[Just Kate]

People ARE NOT "nutjobs" because they want legal advice when a government official shows up at their door to investigate them! I'm an attorney and if CPS showed up at my door I would be upset even though I know what they can and cannot do. The vast majority of people cannot think clearly in those circumstances.

 

To OP, CPS is required by law to tell you what the allegation is they are investigating. Knowing that helps you make a determination of what you want to do. They cannot come into your house without your permission if they don't have a warrant; our Constitution gives us that protection. Innocent people don't want their homes violated without clear cause to do so! DO NOT think you will be considered a "nutjob" because you don't want government authorities in your house without a warrant. They cannot use the fact that you are making them follow the law against you. It maybe that letting them in is the wise choice if the allegation is clearly unfounded and a quick look around would prove that and close the case. But never let them speak to your children or examine your children alone. If they want to do that you seriously need to call an attorney.

 

The Constitution protects all of us and it doesn't make us "nutjobs" or serve as evidence of guilt to stand on our rights!!!

 

Mary

 

:iagree: (although I am not an attorney)

[TranquilMind]

If I remember correctly, you are never supposed to deny them access. If they come to the door, you politely answer the door, let them talk and look around and kindly escort them back out the door. I've always gotten a call before CPS came to visit me though. If I'm remembering the situation correctly for one incident, I wasn't home to answer their call so they came with the sheriff the next day. If I was supposed to argue about them entering, I didn't. :tongue_smilie: Seeing a sheriff at your front door makes you willing to do more than you normally would. Another time CPS was to come over, they scheduled it for a week later. Now, really, if I was a danger to my children, would you schedule a home visit a week later? :confused:

 

I'm not sure of the "right" answer but I try my hardest to avoid CPS. They do help in some situations but other times....eh, they have too much on their plates to think clearly sometimes.

 

The "right" answer is, "I understand your objective and am happy to cooperate. May I see your search warrant, please?"

 

If you get pushback on that, you ask the officer why he wishes to circumvent the law.

 

In real life, I realize that we all have moments where we are so out of our comfort zone that we just do whatever we are told.

 

You are right. The best tactic is total avoidance.

[Sahamamama]

So much animal feces on the carpet that it is ground in and every step I took was into poop.

 

No unspoiled food in the fridge.

 

No food in the cupboards, but name brand cigarettes on the counter.

 

A razor blade and a pile of cat poop in the crib.

 

Baby with bottle in her mouth, but the milk was chunky.

 

Child with burn on her back in the shape of a clothes iron.

 

Dead dog in the tub crawling with maggots.

 

See how tools left out or remnants of the project and clean laundry just don't even register?

 

Yes, I used to be a social worker, and these were the types of problems that are real problems. You know, CyndiGirl, I thought I was the only person on the planet who had WITNESSED a razor blade and a pile of cat poop in the crib with the sleeping one-month old baby -- in January, wearing only a very messy diaper, no clothes, slightly blue all over -- but now I know I'm not the only one. :grouphug: In this crib, there was also an ashtry, full of butts.

[TranquilMind]

I thought it was the opposite, you DO NOT let them in and demand to see proof of a warrant or some other reason they are there. You politely but firmly tell them to leave your house.

Absolutely. Warrant or bye bye.

[Word Nerd]

 

People really come off as paranoid nutjobs when they call a lawyer just because CPS comes to their door. I used to work for CPS and my job was to do the initial investigation and, I'm telling you this, if I showed up for a routine investigation and people were all, "OMG, BRING BACK A WARRANT IF YOU WANT IN! I'M CALLING MY LAWYER!!" it would raise HUGE red flags.

 

I haven't ever seen HSLDA (and I'm not a supporter) or similar groups recommend being belligerent and crazy or yelling when advising people to stand on their right to see a warrant/court order before proceeding with an investigation. I'm sure it makes the CPS worker's job easier when people do whatever they say without question, and in most cases that would lead to the quickest resolution. But it shouldn't raise red flags or be suspicious when people are simply holding to their rights and what is required by law. By the logic above, it's paranoid and nuts when a homeschooler refuses to fill out extra paperwork from a school district that isn't mandated by the state's homeschool law and instead provides only the information the law requires.

[TranquilMind]

I had them show up once and was so surprised that I let them in. A neighbor thought the kids were home alone. We were new to the area and only had one car since dh worked close by, but instead of knocking on the door they just called the police. :glare: I have been told since that I should not have let them in, but the CPS woman showed up with two police officers and I just wanted them to know I wasn't guilty of anything so I let them in. They looked around, woke up younger from her nap, took pictures, and then sent a letter that we were cleared. It was not a fun experience and I never was able to let myself be close with our neighbors after that. I was so glad when we moved.

 

Oh, what the heck? I'd be SO furious. This is what I picture happening about 90% of the time when someone is so quick to say, "I'd call CPS!"

 

The other 10% of the time -or less- it is legitimate.

 

Did you go talk to the neighbor? Nothing like a big, fat, stupid assumption! We had one car the first 8 years of our marriage. I'd be pretty ticked at that neighbor and ask him to check his facts first next time.

[TranquilMind]

People really come off as paranoid nutjobs when they call a lawyer just because CPS comes to their door.

 

This is the most ridiculous statement I have ever heard.

 

We have something called the Constitution here, that last time I checked, absolutely forbids a government agent from entering the home without a warrant (absent consent). Nothing good comes from waiving your rights.

[TranquilMind]

Believe me, this sort of thing doesn't even register with CPS workers. They aren't looking for immaculate. They are looking for SAFE. So, right now, looking around my house I see: clean laundry folded, but not yet put away, a carpet that needs to be vacuumed, dinner not yet put away. What they would see is: clean laundry, evidence of recent food consumption, clean kids.

 

They get alarmed when they see stuff like this:

 

So much animal feces on the carpet that it is ground in and every step I took was into poop.

 

No unspoiled food in the fridge.

 

No food in the cupboards, but name brand cigarettes on the counter.

 

A razor blade and a pile of cat poop in the crib.

 

Baby with bottle in her mouth, but the milk was chunky.

 

Child with burn on her back in the shape of a clothes iron.

 

Dead dog in the tub crawling with maggots.

 

See how tools left out or remnants of the project and clean laundry just don't even register?

 

Sure, in an ideal world, this is how it works.

 

However, in real life, people have issues. Nutjob caseworker and/or officer can allow some minor thing to blow out of proportion. Better to follow procedures.

[Element]

I would let them in, but I'm a showoff. :tongue_smilie:

 

Seriously, though, I remember reading HSLDA's advice on the matter and I was *prepared* for the first couple of months of hs'ing. Emotionally and aggressively prepared. "Knock on my door! I dare ya!" After thinking about it, though, and becoming more confident in the education I was giving ds (wasn't hs'ing dd at the time) I realized that I had no reason to keep anyone out. So, if a sheriff or CPS feels the need to come to my door, I will offer them (instant ;)) coffee and a look-see.

 

(I would, however, have to fight the urge to be indignant and defensive.)

[Truscifi]

People ARE NOT "nutjobs" because they want legal advice when a government official shows up at their door to investigate them! I'm an attorney and if CPS showed up at my door I would be upset even though I know what they can and cannot do. The vast majority of people cannot think clearly in those circumstances.

 

To OP, CPS is required by law to tell you what the allegation is they are investigating. Knowing that helps you make a determination of what you want to do. They cannot come into your house without your permission if they don't have a warrant; our Constitution gives us that protection. Innocent people don't want their homes violated without clear cause to do so! DO NOT think you will be considered a "nutjob" because you don't want government authorities in your house without a warrant. They cannot use the fact that you are making them follow the law against you. It maybe that letting them in is the wise choice if the allegation is clearly unfounded and a quick look around would prove that and close the case. But never let them speak to your children or examine your children alone. If they want to do that you seriously need to call an attorney.

 

The Constitution protects all of us and it doesn't make us "nutjobs" or serve as evidence of guilt to stand on our rights!!!

 

Mary

 

Depending on the state, parents may not actually have the right to refuse them an interview with the children without them present. Especially if the allegations are against the parents.

 

Yes, I used to be a social worker, and these were the types of problems that are real problems. You know, CyndiGirl, I thought I was the only person on the planet who had WITNESSED a razor blade and a pile of cat poop in the crib with the sleeping one-month old baby -- in January, wearing only a very messy diaper, no clothes, slightly blue all over -- but now I know I'm not the only one. :grouphug: In this crib, there was also an ashtry, full of butts.

 

I never saw a razor blade in a crib, but did see cat poop in the crib next to the sleeping baby. Right next to the stack of pool chemicals, in open containers of course.

[Farrar]

People ARE NOT "nutjobs" because they want legal advice when a government official shows up at their door to investigate them!

 

:iagree: I've been involved in a civil liberties case before so i hold those rights very dear. As I said before, for the purposes of expediency, I'd probably just cooperate if CPS asked for reasonable things, it bothers me when people say that standing your ground on a constitutional right makes you a nut job. It's rare, thank goodness, but CPS does abuse its authority sometimes and you do have the right to turn them away if they don't have a warrant.

[cloversandlions]

This question caused a bit of a rift in our homeschool playgroup a year or so ago. Mom #1's dh works for CPS. Mom #2 is a former LAPD cop; her dh works for a libertarian think tank. Mom #2 said she'd never, ever let CPS, or any person working for the government, into her home without a warrant (she's nothing to hide - she just wants to keep the gov out of her business). Mom #1 said much the same as what ThatCyndiGirl wrote - that CPS has enough cases of real neglect and abuse that it would make things easier if you'd just let them in so they could quickly clear you of any concerns. What a kerfluffle!

 

We recently moved to Georgia and as "luck" would have it, the only neighbor in a position to see us regularly seems to disapprove of homeschooling. Strongly. I've wondered (already!) what I'd do if CPS comes a'calling. I'd probably be willing to sit outside and maybe call the kids outside, too, but I'm inclined to think that I would not invite them in. Since our property is fenced, I'd be more worried that my "guard" dog (she's huge and she barks) would frustrate a police officer/CPS person and that they couldn't even get to my front door without having to hurt her first. (And if the dogs are inside already, well...it'd just be easier if we stayed outside and talked anyway.)

[TranquilMind]

WorkInProgress: This question caused a bit of a rift in our homeschool playgroup a year or so ago. Mom #1's dh works for CPS. Mom #2 is a former LAPD cop; her dh works for a libertarian think tank. Mom #2 said she'd never, ever let CPS, or any person working for the government, into her home without a warrant (she's nothing to hide - she just wants to keep the gov out of her business). Mom #1 said much the same as what ThatCyndiGirl wrote - that CPS has enough cases of real neglect and abuse that it would make things easier if you'd just let them in so they could quickly clear you of any concerns. What a kerfluffle!

 

That's funny! I hope they worked it out.

 

We recently moved to Georgia and as "luck" would have it, the only neighbor in a position to see us regularly seems to disapprove of homeschooling. Strongly. I've wondered (already!) what I'd do if CPS comes a'calling. I'd probably be willing to sit outside and maybe call the kids outside, too, but I'm inclined to think that I would not invite them in. Since our property is fenced, I'd be more worried that my "guard" dog (she's huge and she barks) would frustrate a police officer/CPS person and that they couldn't even get to my front door without having to hurt her first. (And if the dogs are inside already, well...it'd just be easier if we stayed outside and talked anyway.)

 

Perfect. Sometimes it is great to have a dog like that.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

Yes, I used to be a social worker, and these were the types of problems that are real problems. You know, CyndiGirl, I thought I was the only person on the planet who had WITNESSED a razor blade and a pile of cat poop in the crib with the sleeping one-month old baby -- in January, wearing only a very messy diaper, no clothes, slightly blue all over -- but now I know I'm not the only one. :grouphug: In this crib, there was also an ashtry, full of butts.

 

I know, it's CRAZY, isn't it?! My dh used to say, "I'm glad you can't tell me things because I couldn't handle hearing them".

 

Just to clarify for some previous poster (can't remember who?), asserting your rights isn't what sounds so crazy, it's the "no warrant/no way" thing. Then someone mentioned a 'search warrant'. CPS wouldn't GET a search warrant. They would have a pick-up order. It's like orgs like HSLDA are playing semantics: "Tell them to get a search warrant. Search warrants aren't used in this situation, so maybe they will just twist in the wind while everybody tries to figure out what to do next!" It's like they think CPS is just going to say, "Oh, nevermind! They are demanding paperwork that is not even appropriate to the situation!"

 

I only had to work with a couple of families who got a lawyer and it only served to make everything take MONTHS LONGER. It never deterred me from my job one bit. When the kids were in danger I still removed them, laywer or not. (Nope, lawyers did not override a judge's order.)

 

Over course, I never removed kids over homeschooling or dirty feet.

[I.Dup.]

I have heard stories for YEARS of CPS removing kids because they are spanked, or the house was a bit messy, or whatever. I mean if 60%+ of homes use corporal punishment that would be a whole lot of foster homes needed to take in all of those spanked kids! It used to scare me because it seemed, from what I heard, that CPS just came in and took kids out willy-nilly. I was afraid they would take my young, impressionable children into a room alone and trick them into saying something they didn't understand. I was legitimately scared of that, because of all the stories I heard!

 

Now that my kids are older I'm not scared and wouldn't have a problem letting them in, I have nothing to hide. Now I know my kids would look at them like :001_huh::001_huh: if they asked certain things. But the whole deal still makes me nervous because of the horror stories. I also heard a statistic that in our little town we have something like 400 kids a MONTH going into foster care. WTH?? We have a lot of meth use but I wouldn't imagine that would account for THAT many kids...what on earth is going on?

[BlsdMama]

Call me a paranoid nutjob.

 

However...

 

There are people out there that believe because you simply HOMESCHOOL you are hiding something.

 

If your house is clean you are an overzealous neatfreak and probably beat your children.

 

If you have more than the average number then obviously you can't care for them correctly.

 

 

I admit I felt better when we didn't live in a town.

The kids are, well, loud. They play, sometimes they bicker, the dog barks... All of these lovely things. As a matter of fact I got a "warning" from the dog officer last week. BTW, if your dog is off leash in your front yard, on the step, waiting for you to come home, but off leash, it's $360. Still wondering what neighbor called that one in since it's from the county, not the town. (And wondering how she could write the ticket if she didn't witness it because she didn't come out until the NEXT day.)

 

Yep. Paranoid.