The right to bear arms vs. the desire to bear arms

[Dory]

I do understand that situation and wanting to own a gun. That is a completely different scenario that what most people in the US have. I live in a city where the houses are lined up line sardines. The only wildlife I come across are squirrels. And they are so slow and overfed I could probably get creative with a sling shot and kill one if I got hungry. ;)

 

In that scenario I can understand the position you have. When you come across as strong as you were though, it made it sound as though you were not willing for anyone to own a gun and I do know people in Montana and Wyoming that have guns for the same wildlife reasons that I do.

 

As for eating the squirrel, my FIL would be proud of you.:lol:

[justLisa]

I do understand that situation and wanting to own a gun. That is a completely different scenario that what most people in the US have. I live in a city where the houses are lined up line sardines. The only wildlife I come across are squirrels. And they are so slow and overfed I could probably get creative with a sling shot and kill one if I got hungry. ;)

 

:lol:

 

DH wanted one in the house for protection. I don't think I could sleep. He NEVER talks about it to me, so for that I am thankful to him. I know how he feels and I do not feel bad for the way I feel. I would support his hunting, though the thought of my son with a rifle makes me want to die. I actually do not know why I hate guns so much. I have never seen anyone shot or anything lilke that. I have never even touched a hand gun.

 

We have cameras ALL OVER the outside of our home, and a tv monitor with 8 different angles at all times. A few of them are obvious and that make me feel better than a gun. Doesn't that make us sound nuts? It is in DH's office. It has helped us catch dog poo offenders. We *never* get door knockers though. I guess no one wants to be on tape. I just feel like having a locked gun in the house is pretty pointless. I am much more likely to need it out and about everyday. The idea of everyone carrying one around is scary to me.

[zenjenn]

People are not just quietly holding their guns in case they need to join a militia.

 

This is exactly why my husband has guns, if you ask him. He is an extremely scrupulous, law-abiding, stable, research engineer/phD candidate. Not filled with machismo at all, and no temper to speak of (and not in a creepy way - he is an animated, social person with a sense of humor, etc.). He occasionally takes them out to go shooting recreationally (targets, not hunting.)

 

He believes not only in the right to bear arms, but a responsibility for all educated, aware, law-abiding, psychologically stable citizens. He is not a nutcase, does not believe revolution is on the horizon or in conspiracy theories or in anything like that - but that a culture/society where citizens retain this right (among others) sets a tenor for greater political stability.

 

Also there is a general awareness of the fragile veneer of society. It wouldn't take much for you to be in a position where you cannot rely on law enforcement for protection. I think this is more true in the US than it is in many other countries where everything is not as spread out. After the Alabama tornadoes last year we had no power for almost a week, and frankly if people had decided to riot or invade our home, the authorities kind of already had their hands full and I don't think the response rate would have been reliable (IF we could have even gotten a phone call in, which was questionable.) During that time my husband kept a firearm accessible. And it was the ONLY time. The rest of the time they are behind lock and key and separated from ammunition and our first response to a threat would be to call the police.

 

I don't 100% agree with him. If I lived alone, I probably would not have guns. But there's his thinking for you. I've come to understand it and have even taken some classes and learned to shoot so that guns are no longer mysterious and scary to me.

Edited August 5, 2012 by zenjenn

[Guest]

I think that culture is often overlooked in these discussions. America's culture is one of fierce individualism. That drives our attitudes towards many things, business, parenting and yes, guns. IMO.

 

Yes, exactly. :iagree:

[justLisa]

What makes me really sad is to hear stories of young kids getting a hold of their parent's unlocked gun and accidentally shooting their friends. And I don't get why people aren't held responsible for that. I'd get my rear dragged through the legal mud if I had a blow up baby pool in my back yard and some kid came into my yard and fell into it and accidentally drowned (my yard is fenced, that wouldn't matter). But if I leave my loaded gun on my kitchen table, leave my kids alone with their friends and my kid shoots the friend accidentally, I'm not responsible. There is something very bizarre about that. We are also not allowed to carry a stun gun. I can only carry a gun that will likely kill someone, not one that will only likely stun someone long enough for me to get away. Totally totally strange thinking.

 

 

I never really thought about that but that's a good point. I have thought about how to protect myself if I were out with the kids in the city. I try to avoid time/locations that could be iffy but there is just no knowing when you'll come up to a crazy. Maybe that is why I chose to grow muscles and learn to kick arse :lol:

[Ipsey]

I lived up against crown land growing up and if it were not for guns around our place, we would have lost lots of cows, lots more dogs and a couple kids. My brothers missed the bus twice because of timber wolves in the driveway. I was not allowed to go for a walk alone without taking the rifle. All of the kids in our household were expected to know how to properly handle a gun. It was NEVER a toy, it was a tool.

 

Bears and cougars on the doorstep is not unheard of around here. I don't think it's because they are very aggressive, but because of where we live.

 

That sounds reasonable to me.

 

Science class in our 7th grade actually hosted hunters safety, so all of the 7th graders got our hunters safety cards.

 

All of this said, I'm becoming increasingly iffy on how lax our gun laws are and the kinds of arms that are allowed.

 

The NRA would hate me--and yet, we own two hunting rifles, and all of my blood family hunts (and I have no problem with it). :)

[Crimson Wife]

I think that culture is often overlooked in these discussions. America's culture is one of fierce individualism. That drives our attitudes towards many things, business, parenting and yes, guns. IMO.

 

But we've always had an individualistic culture, yet we did not have a huge problem with violent crime until the middle of the 20th century. Yes, there were exceptions like the Prohibition-era mafia in certain cities. Overall, though, America was a much safer place. My grandparents grew up in poor urban neighborhoods (Chelsea and Dorchester for those who are familiar with Boston) but unlike those places today, there was hardly any crime back then.

[Guest]

What makes me really sad is to hear stories of young kids getting a hold of their parent's unlocked gun and accidentally shooting their friends. And I don't get why people aren't held responsible for that. I'd get my rear dragged through the legal mud if I had a blow up baby pool in my back yard and some kid came into my yard and fell into it and accidentally drowned (my yard is fenced, that wouldn't matter). But if I leave my loaded gun on my kitchen table, leave my kids alone with their friends and my kid shoots the friend accidentally, I'm not responsible. There is something very bizarre about that. We are also not allowed to carry a stun gun. I can only carry a gun that will likely kill someone, not one that will only likely stun someone long enough for me to get away. Totally totally strange thinking.

 

Those are sad stories, no doubt about it. Rare sad stories, just like rare sad stories of children who drown in the family pool while the parents thought they were watching Barney in the playroom. I know nobody who would leave a loaded gun sitting around unattended. The only people I know who do keep a loaded gun have it on their person, in a holster. The other gun-owners I know have guns unloaded, on safety and separate from ammo.

 

Your last point about the stun gun is an oddity I would agree with.

[Tammi K]

I like guns because I'd rather not be eaten by a bear. That seems like a bad way to go, Kwim?

 

:iagree: Bear spray can only do so much. If you're going back country, you have to be prepared.

[rutamattatt]

I grew up in a very rural area where everyone had a gun. We got school off for the first day of buck hunting and doe hunting seasons. Growing up my family had some guns (my dad proposed to my mom while hunting...how's that for romance?), but my dad was obsessive about keeping us safe. Guns were locked in one place with that key hidden, ammo was locked in another place is a locked case with that key hidden elsewhere. If we wanted to get our hands on a gun growing up, it would have taken weeks to find what we needed.

 

My DH is very anti-gun. Never been around them, never wanted them in our home. I absolutely LOVE skeet and target shooting, but out of respect for him we do not own any guns. (My dad keeps a gun for me to shoot when we get together.) I finally saw his point when one morning he left for work, I fell back asleep, and woke up to see a tall man dashing through our bedroom. Had I had a loaded gun handy, I would have shot him no doubt. I didn't have my glasses on, but I was terrified. It was my husband dashing in for his work ID card he forgot trying to be sneaky so I wouldn't wake up.

 

My extended family is VERY into guns, and they would fall into the "pry it out of my cold dead hand" folks. I am not sure what that is about honestly. They are more about the RIGHT to bear arms than they are about the guns themselves I think. I don't know if it is a fear mentality, the individualistic mentality a PP mentioned, or what. At our family reunions, we go out and shoot target and everyone brings their favorite guns and we shoot and compare. It is very fun, and this year we allowed my father to teach our sons to shoot a gun - not a decision we took lightly. But I would rather they learn about guns and responsible gun ownership from him than be curious at a friend's house.

 

Guns are a tricky thing for me. I think there are so many out there now it almost seems like swimming upstream to try and add a bunch of new regulations. Responsible people will be responsible with their guns. People bent on using them for destruction or crime or intimidation are going to do that. I do hate that there is a perception that gun owners are unstable, anti government crazies armed and ready to go postal. That's not the majority. Those are just the ones who are interesting to talk about on TV.

[Galatea]

All of this said, I'm becoming increasingly iffy on how lax our gun laws are and the kinds of arms that are allowed.

 

I will probably end up being on the extreme end of this, but in my personal opinion, if the government has a type of weapon (whether sword, gun, grenade, cannon, tank, whatever), then a private citizen should be able to have that weapon as well. If they don't want a private citizen to have it, don't make it, don't pay for it, don't pay for people to invent it. Tanks exist because governments want them, because they want an easier, faster way to kill. People accept that because they want to FEEL safe, whether they are or not.

 

But rights to weapons exist because people (any people) should always have the ability and means to defend themselves, not just against individuals, but against their own governments. Most revolutions are bloody, but that is how change happens. But revolution does not work if you are fighting tanks with stones in slings.

 

The right to bear arms in the US exists because the people who wrote that right in had to actually use it to revolt against a government they believed was oppressing them and they wanted to make sure that the right continued on in the future. People desire to bear arms because it's an inherent part of American culture now. Americans are in general individualistic and independent from the government.

 

It's also impossible to talk about this without taking the size of the United States into consideration. This is a huge country, it can't really be compared with somewhere like Malaysia with any kind of success. You can't compare 300,000 square kilometers with over 9 million square kilometers. Logistics make safety, security, personal autonomy exist on a completely different level.

 

An interesting note to consider is that as some countries, like Russia, have become more liberal and more democratic, they have actually relaxed gun laws and increased the right for citizens to bear arms.

[Aggie]

:lol:

 

DH wanted one in the house for protection. I don't think I could sleep. He NEVER talks about it to me, so for that I am thankful to him. I know how he feels and I do not feel bad for the way I feel. I would support his hunting, though the thought of my son with a rifle makes me want to die. I actually do not know why I hate guns so much. I have never seen anyone shot or anything lilke that. I have never even touched a hand gun.

 

We have cameras ALL OVER the outside of our home, and a tv monitor with 8 different angles at all times. A few of them are obvious and that make me feel better than a gun. Doesn't that make us sound nuts? It is in DH's office. It has helped us catch dog poo offenders. We *never* get door knockers though. I guess no one wants to be on tape. I just feel like having a locked gun in the house is pretty pointless. I am much more likely to need it out and about everyday. The idea of everyone carrying one around is scary to me.

 

I think if you took a gun safety class, you would probably be less afraid of guns. Learn how to load and shoot. Practice in a safe environment with a great teacher. Watch your kid(s) learn gun safety and how to shoot. Learn what it takes to get a CCL.

 

I actually feel pretty safe knowing there's probably 10-25% (or more) of people in any given public venue around here carrying. They are well-trained, thoughtful, law-abiding citizens.

[justLisa]

I have no desire to shoot a hand gun.

[Whereneverever]

I'm with you. No desire whatsoever. I'd rather have a root canal.

 

Out of idle curiosity, how would you deal with a rattlesnake? :bigear:

[Whereneverever]

What the heck is a rattlesnake?

 

:confused: are you joking or serious?

[Whereneverever]

I'm half joking. I'm pretty sure there are no rattle snakes here is what I'm trying to say.

 

I get it, if you live in an area where you need to contend with wildlife there may be a use for a gun. I don't live in such an area. The biggest creature I contend with regularly are house flies. My can of Raid works well for that. A gun wouldn't work so well for that.

 

Fair enough, I don't think I've ever seen someone advocate shooting a housefly. :lol:

[MrsBasil]

I agree with that. Criminals are not standing in lines for permits.

 

Well...some aren't, but there are certainly crimes that are committed by people with legally owned guns.

[justLisa]

Well...some aren't, but there are certainly crimes that are committed by people with legally owned guns.

 

Yeah, I know. What I'm saying is if someone is crazy and wants to kill someone they are gonna find a way to do it.

 

I don't feel comfortable knowing a bunch of people are walking around with a holster. Nothing is going to change that.

[Aggie]

I have no desire to shoot a hand gun.

 

I understand! However, I think a gun safety class might help you get over your fear and hatred of guns.

 

My dh insists he doesn't like opera. Insists. But you know what? He's never been to one. I keep telling him to read the story the opera is based on, go to one "with words" :lol: and he might actually like it. His preconceived notions about opera are keeping him away from what might be a very enjoyable evening.

 

Our fears and dislikes are *sometimes* fueled by our ignorance. Go learn about guns. You don't have to shoot one.

 

Yet.:001_smile:

[SKL]

Fair enough, I don't think I've ever seen someone advocate shooting a housefly. :lol:

 

My dad did use a pellet gun on a bat that came down from the attic in our Christmas decorations. RIP, bat.

[justLisa]

I understand! However, I think a gun safety class might help you get over your fear and hatred of guns.

 

My dh insists he doesn't like opera. Insists. But you know what? He's never been to one. I keep telling him to read the story the opera is based on, go to one "with words" :lol: and he might actually like it. His preconceived notions about opera are keeping him away from what might be a very enjoyable evening.

 

Our fears and dislikes are *sometimes* fueled by our ignorance. Go learn about guns. You don't have to shoot one.

 

Yet.:001_smile:

I do not want to learn anymore about guns than I already know.

 

And I'm sorry but don't call me ignorant. Just because I don't want to SHOOT A GUN does not mean I don't know enough to make a decision about it. And I don't care for Opera. I have listened to it. It is expensive to go to the theater and I would not want to sit in person through it either. But I guess since I have not fully experienced it, who am I to say.

[Juniper]

I also think we need to remember the number of women and men who have had to deal with stalkers. Stalkers don't care if you live in a metro or rural area.

 

:glare:

[justLisa]

I also think we need to remember the number of women and men who have had to deal with stalkers. Stalkers don't care if you live in a metro or rural area.

 

:glare:

 

Ugh, yeah I don't want to know what I would do in that case.

[TravelingChris]

All my kids learned to target shoot- ds through boy scouts, dds through 4H and venture scouts. One dd is a very good target shooter.

 

Now we also believe in taking precautions, all sorts of precautions. Being prepared to defend ourselves is one of these. And before you think we are nuts, my dh and ds lived through the LA riots where a short distance from our home, a man was pulled from his car and killed. Now a second point is that two cities that I know about, DC and Chicago, both have very, very strict gun laws but have lots and lots of shootings. On the other hand, there were many fewer percentagewise in Texas cities, which has liberal gun laws. I wasn;t scared in Switzerland, where everyone has guns, I was much more cautious in London, where only the criminals do.

[Farrar]

Yes, but what boggles my mind is that there are plenty of Americans who think I should want a gun and wonder why I don't.

 

:iagree:

 

I completely accept and respect that the right to bear arms is enshrined in the Constitution (though I also believe the government has the right to place restrictions like background checks) and that it is a basic right here in the US. And that some studies have shown that guns are a deterrent to crime (though I've seen others that show the opposite - my own belief is that that jury is out on that question). And that some people really enjoy guns and gun culture. In fact, my father is an avid hunter and keeps many guns so I grew up around guns.

 

But the people in this thread who are acting like those of us who don't want guns have something wrong with us or are missing some critical piece of culture? I don't get that at all. And I feel like that's exactly the overzealous attitude Heather was talking about in her OP. There are some things in life that I do think people should be exposed to culturally, but there are a lot more that I think just aren't that important and guns definitely falls in the latter category - as do many things that I'm pretty into myself. If you're not into Joss Whedon or baking cookies or whatever, then I'm not going to argue you around.

 

I also don't buy the dangerous wildlife argument as a major factor. Sure, if you live in rural Montana, you might need a gun, but the number of people who live in places where a gun is really a basic necessity in this country is extremely small. As someone mentioned up thread - not every person in mountain lion country is carrying a gun because they're in fear of their lives. And not everyone who lives in areas with rattlesnakes does either.

 

Again, if people who do live in those places *want* to carry a gun for extra protection, then more power to them and I absolutely have no objection, but to say we would clearly get it if we did seems to miss the point that not everyone does in those places already.

[annandatje]

What a timely conversation as the USA has had yet another mass shooting at a Sikh temple in Wisconsin. Reportedly seven people were killed.

[justLisa]

:iagree:

 

I completely accept and respect that the right to bear arms is enshrined in the Constitution (though I also believe the government has the right to place restrictions like background checks) and that it is a basic right here in the US. And that some studies have shown that guns are a deterrent to crime (though I've seen others that show the opposite - my own belief is that that jury is out on that question). And that some people really enjoy guns and gun culture. In fact, my father is an avid hunter and keeps many guns so I grew up around guns.

 

But the people in this thread who are acting like those of us who don't want guns have something wrong with us or are missing some critical piece of culture? I don't get that at all. And I feel like that's exactly the overzealous attitude Heather was talking about in her OP. There are some things in life that I do think people should be exposed to culturally, but there are a lot more that I think just aren't that important and guns definitely falls in the latter category - as do many things that I'm pretty into myself. If you're not into Joss Whedon or baking cookies or whatever, then I'm not going to argue you around.

 

I also don't buy the dangerous wildlife argument as a major factor. Sure, if you live in rural Montana, you might need a gun, but the number of people who live in places where a gun is really a basic necessity in this country is extremely small. As someone mentioned up thread - not every person in mountain lion country is carrying a gun because they're in fear of their lives. And not everyone who lives in areas with rattlesnakes does either.

 

Again, if people who do live in those places *want* to carry a gun for extra protection, then more power to them and I absolutely have no objection, but to say we would clearly get it if we did seems to miss the point that not everyone does in those places already.

 

Thank you! I feel the same way. I just don't need people treating me like I don't know enough to make the decision to have the opinion I do, KWIM?

[LizzyBee]

As a gun owner myself, living in bear and wolf country, do you typically leave the house with a gun in order to keep from being eaten by a bear?

 

I have also lived in mountain lion country, and my brother actually ran the dogs for a mountain lion outfitter. Sometimes we had lions in town (rarely, and only sick ones), but no one seemed to be carrying guns to keep them away (Yet, I'd say 90% of the town owned guns).

 

I don't mean to be confrontational, I'm just very curious! You must be in a very high-bear density area if folks are carrying guns for bear defense. If the guns are kept in the house, they must be very aggressive bears to go after people inside.

 

I'm not theretohere, but I'm from a place where black bears are very prevalent, and yes, they have gotten inside people's homes. Several years ago, a rabid bear (a very unusual occurrence) ripped out a window AC unit trying to get into the house after chasing several family members in. I forget whether it was the dad or a teen who shot the bear, but the entire family had to have rabies shots because of the blood spatter on them. It could have been much worse if a gun had not been available.

 

Some of the farmers in the area have lost many thousands of $$ in animals killed by bears and crop damages by bears. When your ability to put food on the table depends on your farm, these losses can be devastating.

 

Unfortunately, the tourists in the area feed the bears even though it's illegal, which makes them more aggressive towards people.

Edited August 5, 2012 by LizzyBee

[AnnaM]

I don't think it should be for the majority of people. I'm ok with hobby/hunting/protection because you live among wildlife. Around here I don't think those are the most common reasons for owning guns.

 

I consider someone trying to break into my home or trying to hurt me or my family part of the wildlife. I wouldn't let a bear attack me and I sure as heck wouldn't let another person attack me. When someone attacks, especially with the intention of doing harm, they cross the line from person to animal. I don't care if that is PC or not.

 

I live in Texas. You know, where we all dress in tight jeans, boots, hats and spurs, riding around on horses with a gun strapped to every joint on our body? While I am sure that we have more gun stores than most states, they definitely aren't on every corner.

 

I am very grateful for the right to own a gun, but if you do not wish to own guns, I am grateful for your right not to.

[Dory]

I consider someone trying to break into my home or trying to hurt me or my family part of the wildlife. I wouldn't let a bear attack me and I sure as heck wouldn't let another person attack me. When someone attacks, especially with the intention of doing harm, they cross the line from person to animal. I don't care if that is PC or not.

 

I live in Texas. You know, where we all dress in tight jeans, boots, hats and spurs, riding around on horses with a gun strapped to every joint on our body? While I am sure that we have more gun stores than most states, they definitely aren't on every corner.

 

I am very grateful for the right to own a gun, but if you do not wish to own guns, I am grateful for your right not to.

 

Perhaps some form of self defense classes are in order, like a jiu jitsu. My brother has taken out an armed man before with that. A person does not always need a firearm to handle creeps. I'm like owning a gun, but all my kids will learn some form of martial art (auto correct keeps making that marital art:tongue_smilie:).

I suppose part of my thoughts on that are because hand guns aren't common here and a carry permit is harder to get.

[Joker]

But we've always had an individualistic culture, yet we did not have a huge problem with violent crime until the middle of the 20th century. Yes, there were exceptions like the Prohibition-era mafia in certain cities. Overall, though, America was a much safer place. My grandparents grew up in poor urban neighborhoods (Chelsea and Dorchester for those who are familiar with Boston) but unlike those places today, there was hardly any crime back then.

 

This is something I wonder about. I grew up in small town Texas. Pretty much every house had guns. Ours did and they weren't even locked up, yet we all knew enough about guns to not play with them. We never locked our doors. There was very little crime and the crime that was there didn't involve people shooting each other, not even kids accidentally. Something has changed, but I don't really think it's just the access to guns.

[laundrycrisis]

If an intruder comes into our home, calling 911 won't help. They can't get here fast enough. It was a police officer who told me that when I was dealing with a repeating peeping Tom. A police officer told me everyone should be prepared and trained to defend their own lives inside their own homes. He was right. And so I demand the legal option to defend myself or our children with a device that will permanently neutralize the intruder. I am not interested in gambling with having to use martial arts against a man who is taller and stronger than me in that situation. I want to deal with him safely, from a distance, with something that is likely to actually work.

Edited August 5, 2012 by laundrycrisis

[I.Dup.]

And yet, when I go back to the states and there are gun sellers on every corner, the news is full of shootings, and people on FB post things that say "Yeah, I love guns and you can kiss my a$$" ... It just makes me cringe.

 

 

 

I agree. I think it's ridiculous. My dh has always been this way, but that is how he was raised. He was raised in the back woods south.

 

I detest guns and the thought of owning one sickens me.

 

:iagree: We do own guns but I don't go anywhere near them. They wouldn't even be able to protect us from intruders because they are not easily accessible.

[FaithManor]

This is something I wonder about. I grew up in small town Texas. Pretty much every house had guns. Ours did and they weren't even locked up, yet we all knew enough about guns to not play with them. We never locked our doors. There was very little crime and the crime that was there didn't involve people shooting each other, not even kids accidentally. Something has changed, but I don't really think it's just the access to guns.

 

 

I have to agree with this sentiment. Something is wrong; something that was not wrong a couple of generations ago.

 

I grew up around guns, EVERYONE had guns, you'd have been hard pressed to find a house that didn't have both hunting guns and hand guns and we did not have violent crime in the community. The worst there ever was involved the town bully smacking around a few little kids and that was solved when my brother and a couple of his teen friends cornered the bully and gave him a dose of his own medicine. No need for police. It was handled and done with one bloody nose and a fat lip. That was the extent of the violence in the neighborhood. An armed robbery anywhere in the county would have been completely startling.

 

We still have very, very little gun related crime of any kind, but a smidge more.

 

I think something socially, psychologically, and emotionally has fractured in this country and too many people believe that the way to cope with a cr*ppy life is to maim or kill someone else.

 

I also agree that possibly, prison is too nice in some instances. I'm no fan of taking some shoplifter and throwing them in the dungeon, but maybe if violent crime met with bread/water subsistence and some back-breaking hard labor, fewer people would decide to solve their problems this way.

 

Faith

[Wheres Toto]

:iagree:

 

I completely accept and respect that the right to bear arms is enshrined in the Constitution (though I also believe the government has the right to place restrictions like background checks) and that it is a basic right here in the US. And that some studies have shown that guns are a deterrent to crime (though I've seen others that show the opposite - my own belief is that that jury is out on that question). And that some people really enjoy guns and gun culture. In fact, my father is an avid hunter and keeps many guns so I grew up around guns.

 

But the people in this thread who are acting like those of us who don't want guns have something wrong with us or are missing some critical piece of culture? I don't get that at all. And I feel like that's exactly the overzealous attitude Heather was talking about in her OP. There are some things in life that I do think people should be exposed to culturally, but there are a lot more that I think just aren't that important and guns definitely falls in the latter category - as do many things that I'm pretty into myself. If you're not into Joss Whedon or baking cookies or whatever, then I'm not going to argue you around.

 

I also don't buy the dangerous wildlife argument as a major factor. Sure, if you live in rural Montana, you might need a gun, but the number of people who live in places where a gun is really a basic necessity in this country is extremely small. As someone mentioned up thread - not every person in mountain lion country is carrying a gun because they're in fear of their lives. And not everyone who lives in areas with rattlesnakes does either.

 

Again, if people who do live in those places *want* to carry a gun for extra protection, then more power to them and I absolutely have no objection, but to say we would clearly get it if we did seems to miss the point that not everyone does in those places already.

 

:iagree:

 

We do have bears in our yard regularly but don't feel the need for a gun. An air horn works very well. :D

[SKL]

We did once have a bat in our house. I was so freaked out I called the police (non emergency number). They told me to open a window and it would fly out. So that's what I did and it flew out.

 

This may seem odd, but my parents' windows don't open in most of their downstairs. Considering their house is about 100 years old, even the windows that are supposed to open don't. Besides, it was Christmas Eve (cold winter here) and their cat was losing her mind. Bat potty and a crazy cat (who would jump out an open window and freeze) on Christmas? Sorry. RIP bat.

 

BTW, I am not saying that means you need a gun. Like I said, I don't have one either. But there are times when a gun is a more expedient tool than other tools. Just like there are times when a crock-pot is a more expedient tool than an oven. :leaving: But I don't own a crock-pot either.

 

Just like nobody should question you for not wanting a gun, I don't understand the "I don't buy that argument" comments about people who do have a gun for this or that reason (e.g., to be safer). If someone says that's why they have a gun, it seems that is probably why they have a gun. So what? I think purses are overrated and have never owned one, so does that mean I should argue about other women's reasons for having one? Who cares?

[MrsBasil]

Yeah, I know. What I'm saying is if someone is crazy and wants to kill someone they are gonna find a way to do it.

 

I don't feel comfortable knowing a bunch of people are walking around with a holster. Nothing is going to change that.

 

 

Yes, I agree with your first point.

 

As for your second, I wasn't trying to change your mind. I am uneasy about concealed carry and am uncomfortable with laws allowing ownership of certain types of guns.

[justLisa]

Yes, I agree with your first point.

 

As for your second, I wasn't trying to change your mind. I am uneasy about concealed carry and am uncomfortable with laws allowing ownership of certain types of guns.

 

Thanks. I meant there were suggestions I should "learn more" so I could stop being so ignorant about it and change my mind. That bugs me.

 

And I like your froggy avatar :lol:. I can't figure out what it reminds me of.

[MrsBasil]

Thanks. I meant there were suggestions I should "learn more" so I could stop being so ignorant about it and change my mind. That bugs me.

 

And I like your froggy avatar :lol:. I can't figure out what it reminds me of.

 

Oh I hear you there. I don't care to own a gun and because of my beliefs about gun laws, in certain parts of my social circle, I'm considered ignorant about crime....It's a pain.

 

As for my avatar...not a frog. :D Are you familiar with the show Phineas and Ferb? If so, think platypus. If not, it's a character on that show.

[Catherine]

It is not in the nature of criminals to consider the consequences of their actions. If they did , they would not be criminals. I just don't think the style of punishment has a strong correlation with the choices of the criminals.

[justLisa]

Oh I hear you there. I don't care to own a gun and because of my beliefs about gun laws, in certain parts of my social circle, I'm considered ignorant about crime....It's a pain.

 

As for my avatar...not a frog. :D Are you familiar with the show Phineas and Ferb? If so, think platypus. If not, it's a character on that show.

 

THAT'S IT! Now I can rest :D

[MrsBasil]

THAT'S IT! Now I can rest :D

 

 

Oh good! I'd hate to be responsible for your lack of adequate Sunday rest. Enjoy! ;)

[Parrothead]

I am sure that has something to do with it. The prisons here are ...umm... Not as nice as American prisons and the penalty for drug trafficking is death by hanging.

This might be your answer.

 

I can't/won't say more because I don't want to get banned this week. :D

[MrsBasil]

What a timely conversation as the USA has had yet another mass shooting at a Sikh temple in Wisconsin. Reportedly seven people were killed.

 

Not another one. Lord have mercy.

[Catherine]

It's our culture. It's the sense of entitlement, combined with ignorance\arrogance. Gun owners may truly believe they are striking a blow for self-protection of the population, for safety against animal predators, for protection against home invasion. They will not be convinced by any evidence that demonstrates they are wrong. It's our culture.

[LibraryLover]

Here's something: We are not Serbia. That would be really bad.

[CatholicMom]

I didn't read all the responses, but here are my thoughts:

 

People usually aren't obsessed with "guns" for no reason whatsoever. There are many different reasons people may own one or more guns, including:

 

1) Sport (target shooting, competitions, etc) There is zero wrong with that.

 

2) Defense (if you have a gun in your house and someone breaks in, it can become mighty useful and save your life. There's nothing crazy or paranoid about that. It happens.)

 

3) Hunting (Firearms come in handy when you're hunting for sport or food - or both.)

 

There is nothing wrong with any of these reasons. I do think some Americans take pride in owning guns precisely because we have the right to do so and it is a mark of a free nation / people. Countries that are socialist and communist do not allow gun ownership. That's just how it works.

 

Also, when you're talking about violence statistics, you have to remember how gigantic America is in comparison with most other countries. I think that the entirety of Europe is only slightly larger than the United States. So we have a LOT more people than any one European country. So IF you are going to compare (which is kind of useless anyway, IMO, because there are so many variables), it would make more sense to compare violent crimes per capita. It would also make sense to make sure you're not just comparing "violent gun crimes" when comparing the US to nations where guns are illegal because obviously the nations where guns are illegal are going to have less gun crimes. But I believe stabbings are much more common in England, for instance, where guns are not legal. When you look at things like this it might put things in a bit more perspective.

 

And like someone else mentioned, of course there is going to be less violent crime the more horrific the punishment is for such crimes. If every single person in the entire US had a machine gun but if you are found guilty of an unjust shooting you were burnt alive within 48 hours, then you probably have VERY little gun-related crimes. It's just human nature. I think it's unfortunate that it takes so long to bring criminals to justice, and that we tend to let some offenders off too easy, and all this definitely plays a factor in the prevalence of crime.

 

There's absolutely nothing bizarre or suspicious about having pride in owning guns any more than people take pride in owning a specific breed of dog, or only buying Chevy's, or what have you. People like what they like, and they are proud to say so. That's mostly what it's about. It's also partly that people feel they are less likely to be pushed around if it is known that they own a gun. And that's true. If someone has a sticker on the bumper of their truck that says "Proud to be a Gun Owner," I'll guarantee you their house is less likely to get broken into.

Edited August 5, 2012 by TaraJo29

[LizzyBee]

This is something I wonder about. I grew up in small town Texas. Pretty much every house had guns. Ours did and they weren't even locked up, yet we all knew enough about guns to not play with them. We never locked our doors. There was very little crime and the crime that was there didn't involve people shooting each other, not even kids accidentally. Something has changed, but I don't really think it's just the access to guns.

 

:iagree: except I grew up in a different state. Everyone had guns and practically everyone hunted, but I never heard of any kids playing with guns. It never occurred to me to touch my dad's guns. Maybe they didn't hold any mystique because they were just a normal part of life. And there was also very little crime.

Edited August 5, 2012 by LizzyBee

[ElizabethB]

The two countries that I have visited where I have felt the safest from crime in big cities have been Japan and Israel. In Japan, there are few guns. In Israel, you can't even go to the beach or the mall or a restaurant without seeing at least one armed member of the military.

 

An interesting pro-gun argument that has not been mentioned yet is gun control and genocide. Here is a chart from a Jewish gun ownership organization with genocide numbers and gun control laws by country. (Their claim is that mass genocide has been enabled by gun control laws.)

 

http://jpfo.org/pdf02/genocide-chart.pdf

[SKL]

Ok I'm a bit confused though. Someone shot a gun inside the house at a bat? That seems a bit over the top and a sure way to do some damage to the house.

 

I have no qualms about killing a bat because bats freak me out.

 

Well, that's why taking a course about guns and gun safety might be a good idea. A pellet gun is not that powerful. It's not like there is now a hole in my parents' ceiling. It was just enough to off the little brown bat.