If it was your son...wwyd?

[BakersDozen]

Situation: 12yo boy hides a crowbar in his backpack, takes it to school with intention of hitting another boy in the face who had been bothering 12yo (12yo is himself very antagonistic).

 

12yo is not arrested, however after a trial (for which his parents dressed him in a polo shirt and plaid shorts - far different from the black, oversized, gangsterwannabe outfits he typically wears) the decision is made to suspend 12yo for 2 months from school and give him the choice between time in juvenile jail or community service working at a rescue ranch for dogs (parents chose rescue ranch).

 

12yo will do online school at home with parents for 2 months. Both parents work so school will be done in evening...except for nights that have Boy Scouts, karate or any other extracurricular activity. Weekends are out due to B.S. activities.

 

Said 12yo has no problem telling others what he did and has even exaggerated his story by saying he actually did hit the other kid in the face. :001_huh:

 

I've been mulling this situation over since I became aware of it, wondering what I would do if it was my ds (which it is not, fwiw!). I'm so far removed from the public school world I have no idea where on the spectrum behavior/consequences like this fall given the Zero Tolerance policies that were put in place.

 

What would the Hive do? Is the sentence too light? Enough? Too heavy?

Edited July 11, 2012 by LuvnMySvn

[mazakaal]

I would add in anger management counseling without question. And I'd make sure that someone was with him during the day while the parents are at work. That just seems really unhealthy - leaving a 12yo with serious issues at home for 8 hours or more per day.

[BakersDozen]

And I'd make sure that someone was with him during the day while the parents are at work. That just seems really unhealthy - leaving a 12yo with serious issues at home for 8 hours or more per day.

Sorry...I should have added that the boy is supposed to go to work with his dad (an electrician) during the day so he will not be home alone.

 

I had not thought of anger management counseling...excellent idea.

[tex-mex]

Having been in that situation with an emotionally disturbed student who was expelled from our school district. (I was the school teacher and had to be called in by the school as a witness.) I would suggest the school cannot add therapy for liability reasons. If they did suggest it, then legally the school may have to foot the bill for the counseling or anger management sessions.

[Elizabeth in MN]

Uh, if that were my child I would have blow out our ear drums with the screaming. Where did the kid get the crow bar FROM?

[Soror]

Everyone has a crowbar around here, it is just a tool. Ds could get one easily enough from the shed, although ours is so big it wouldn't fit into a backpack.

 

As to what to do with the kids, um, well, after I retreated in embarrassment there would be many family meetings to figure out what had went so wrong and a total re-evaluation of our parenting.

[Lily_Grace]

My child would have 24h supervision - and I do mean 24 hour. Every minute of his day would be watched. Dad would go to scouts with him and he'd be removed from all other activities. His room would be stripped of everything except furniture and schoolbooks. Counseling would be up there, at least some initial appointments to feel out the problem and see if there truly was one. I'd consider quitting work to make it all happen if I had to. Oh, and my kid would be paying restitution to the other kid in some form - whether it's mowing their lawn or doing some other personal service to counteract the threat during the entire time of his community service.

 

Actions like what you described would not be taken lightly in my household.

[NotSoObvious]

Boy Scouts and Karate?!?! Those would be the first things to GO! They'd be replaced with chores, chores, and more chores. He would do the community service (which, in all honesty, I would have chosen too), then do chores, then be in his room alone doing schoolwork. Period.

 

Also, if I could afford it, I'd hire a very firm tutor for the two months who would ride his butt all day everyday. Going to work with dad sounds too much like a reward. But that's just me.

 

I don't know why he wasn't expelled.

[marbel]

Boy Scouts and Karate?!?! Those would be the first things to GO! They'd be replaced with chores, chores, and more chores. He would do the community service (which, in all honesty, I would have chosen too), then do chores, then be in his room alone doing schoolwork. Period.

 

Also, if I could afford it, I'd hire a very firm tutor for the two months who would ride his butt all day everyday. Going to work with dad sounds too much like a reward. But that's just me.

 

I don't know why he wasn't expelled.

 

:iagree:mostly, except for cutting out Scouts. Scouts is fun, but it's also work. If it was my son, I'd do the above, but I'd also tell his Scoutmaster what happened. He would be a great help in the situation. We've seen several troubled boys helped by Scouts. (Not all are, of course. But it would be worth the effort.) It would depend on the troop leadership.

 

Karate, maybe the same. I don't have any experience but from what I've heard, the discipline it teaches is valuable.

[catz]

I'm not sure in terms of punishment, but I'd would have him and possibly the whole family in counseling for starters.

[Night Elf]

As the parent, I would take my kid to counseling. This sounds like the beginning of a very bad road. He thinks his sentence is funny and he continues to be boastful. It sounds like he has no remorse. Something is mentally wrong with him. I'm not talking about something like schizophrenia. I'm talking about his need to dominate and intimidate. It needs to be nipped in the bud or these parents are going to be dealing with things as worse or perhaps even worse than the current situation.

 

I just hope the parents are taking this seriously and helping him understand what he did was wrong, rather than focusing on the fact that their lives are being inconvenienced for 2 months.

 

I'd also be worried about what he'll be like when he starts back at school. There could be kids who think he's cool for what happened.

[Parrothead]

If he wasn't arrested how was there a trial? There would have had to have been charges brought against him.

 

As far as I can tell there are several incidents that need to be addressed. First is the bullying. The other 12 year old "bothered" the boy with the crowbar enough that the boy felt the need to put a stop to the bothering. I don't care how antagonistic the crowbar kid is. He felt the need to put a stop to the bothering. I would take this up with the school and the school board.

 

Next would be the taking of the weapon to school. That would need some form of discipline at home. That would include some sort of daily hard physical work. I'd also find him a different martial arts class because obviously he isn't being taught well at karate. I'd also question scouts.

 

Third home life would change dramatically. I can't imagine a child of mine not being able to come to me with something like this. I'd feel that I'd failed him if he felt the need to take a weapon to school to defend himself. Where were the adults in his life? He should have been able to to go his parents, teachers, scout masters, sensais.

 

FTR, dressing in a goth style doesn't necessarily automatically equal being bad or evil.

[mommaduck]

That kid needs serious counseling. Something is still skewed in his view or thinking.

[mommaduck]

Is it though? How do people often deal with problems? Through violence. That's nothing new. If a country does something our leaders don't like, they drop bombs on them. People watch violent movies for fun. Even kid's cartoons are violent.

 

I don't like violence of any kind, but I actually think I'm in the minority sometimes.

Honestly, punching the other kid immediately would be a more normal reaction. Thinking about a weapon choice, premeditation on carrying out the deed, etc...normal to think it, yes; normal to do it, no. The fact that he STILL does not realise that it was wrong...yes, he needs counseling.

[TXBeth]

Well, at our dojo, a 12 year old (especially if he is a higher rank and not brand new) who used violence against another child other than in self defense would be kicked out of classes - at least temporarily. Our sensei refuses to teach kids karate if they are going to use it inappropriately. So karate wouldn't interfere with the schedule anymore.

 

A problem I see is that it doesn't seem the parents are actually putting a priority on schoolwork. Is he going to go back next year and be held back because he didn't learn enough at home to pass whatever tests he needs to pass?

 

How I handled it with my kid would depend a lot on whether he was actually being bullied or whether he and this kid just tend to not get along and he decided to take it to the next level.

[Impish]

Any dojo I've ever heard of would kick the kid out asap. They don't tolerate that kind of carp, period.

 

Counseling would be at the very top of the hit parade.

 

Child's life would be come very sterile. No electronics, no extras. And that's just the start, off the top of my head.

[mommaduck]

As the parent I'd freak for sure. If for no other reason than I wouldn't want my kid to hurt someone or ruin his life. But I don't think his reaction was all that nuts if he was feeling bothered. I was bothered in school sometimes. The only thing that stopped me from retaliating was that I was small and it wouldn't have worked out for me anyway. But yeah, sometimes I wish I could have fought back.

I was severely bullied in school, by students and certain teachers. I never thought to do any of these types of things. Maybe I'm just odd.

[clarkacademy]

Situation: 12yo boy hides a crowbar in his backpack, takes it to school with intention of hitting another boy in the face who had been bothering 12yo (12yo is himself very antagonistic).

 

12yo is not arrested, however after a trial (for which his parents dressed him in a polo shirt and plaid shorts - far different from the black, oversized, gangsterwannabe outfits he typically wears) the decision is made to suspend 12yo for 2 months from school and give him the choice between time in juvenile jail or community service working at a rescue ranch for dogs (parents chose rescue ranch).

 

12yo will do online school at home with parents for 2 months. Both parents work so school will be done in evening...except for nights that have Boy Scouts, karate or any other extracurricular activity. Weekends are out due to B.S. activities.

 

Said 12yo has no problem telling others what he did and has even exaggerated his story by saying he actually did hit the other kid in the face. :001_huh:

 

I've been mulling this situation over since I became aware of it, wondering what I would do if it was my ds (which it is not, fwiw!). I'm so far removed from the public school world I have no idea where on the spectrum behavior/consequences like this fall given the Zero Tolerance policies that were put in place.

 

What would the Hive do? Is the sentence too light? Enough? Too heavy?

 

If my kid was involved in these activities and came home saying such and such I would complain. I wouldn't want my kid around someone bragging on this. Yeah I think it is way too light this kid needs counseling. Until he felt he did something that was wrong and stopped thinking it was funny I wouldn't think he needs to be around other kids.

[Caroline]

Do we know what the other 12 year old did to bother him? Threaten him with a gun or knife? Was there gang involvement? Was the other kid trying to sell him drugs, or get him to sell drugs? Some kids live very scary lives, especially those in gang territories. Black saggies often means they don't want gang affiliation, especially at school. Black tends to be a safe color for non-gang kids to wear.

 

I agree with Chucki-if there was a trial, he had to be arrested and charged with something. The school can suspend him, but community service is from a judge.

 

People dress up for court. Of course the kid is going to be dressed nicer for court. The fact that he wasn't in khaki pants and a button down shirt and tie says something, too, that those clothes weren't available to him.

 

I think there is a lot of information we don't have about the situation.

[mommaduck]

I didn't want to hurt anyone in a retaliation sense, but I wanted it to stop.

I did also. In my case, I had learned that sticking up for yourself, even verbally, just got me in more trouble and the other person remained off the hook. I did consider running away though (had absolutely no family around...by thirteen I nearly hit the road to hitchhike to SC to find my dad).

 

Basically, in fight or flight mode, my fight mechanism was busted. By my late twenties it was up and running pretty good. I don't take carp from anyone anymore.

[KungFuPanda]

Boy Scouts and Karate?!?! Those would be the first things to GO! They'd be replaced with chores, chores, and more chores. He would do the community service (which, in all honesty, I would have chosen too), then do chores, then be in his room alone doing schoolwork. Period.

 

Also, if I could afford it, I'd hire a very firm tutor for the two months who would ride his butt all day everyday. Going to work with dad sounds too much like a reward. But that's just me.

 

I don't know why he wasn't expelled.

 

I disagree. It's not about punishment; it's about raising this child. He needs to be constructively engaged in addition to 'serving his time.' I think it's the kids with nothing to lose that do the most desperate things. Pulling every joy from his life seems like a recipe for creating an angry, destructive teen. Short leash-yes, but relentless long-term punishment seems more about societal revenge than it does about correcting this child.

[Ghee]

Any dojo I've ever heard of would kick the kid out asap. They don't tolerate that kind of carp, period.

 

Counseling would be at the very top of the hit parade.

 

Child's life would be come very sterile. No electronics, no extras. And that's just the start, off the top of my head.

 

 

:iagree: Isn't this the sort of thing a juvenile detention center would deal with? I would be looking for serious emotional help for my child. I would wonder how I failed so badly that he thought violence was an answer (unless, of course, this WAS a situation where the other child had threatened bodily harm or was trying to pressure the kid into drugs or a gang. At that point, the police should've been called in.)

 

I don't think going to work with dad is too light, IF dad is treating him like an apprentice. Now, if dad is going with the "This is my son, Crowbar, he's going to be sitting in a corner texting and playing a handheld video game device while I work." tactic then I don't think it's enough at all!

 

I don't know about pulling him from activities. OT1H, I wouldn't want MY children exposed to someone like that. OTOH, if the leaders are told and the boy knows that they are all holding him accountable, it might be the best that he stay in them and active. IMO, boredom leads to bad decisions.

[QueenCat]

Do we know what the other 12 year old did to bother him? Threaten him with a gun or knife? Was there gang involvement? Was the other kid trying to sell him drugs, or get him to sell drugs? Some kids live very scary lives, especially those in gang territories. Black saggies often means they don't want gang affiliation, especially at school. Black tends to be a safe color for non-gang kids to wear.

 

I agree with Chucki-if there was a trial, he had to be arrested and charged with something. The school can suspend him, but community service is from a judge.

 

People dress up for court. Of course the kid is going to be dressed nicer for court. The fact that he wasn't in khaki pants and a button down shirt and tie says something, too, that those clothes weren't available to him.

 

I think there is a lot of information we don't have about the situation.

 

Excellent thoughts.... I don't know anyone who wouldn't dress up for court.

[QueenCat]

I disagree. It's not about punishment; it's about raising this child. He needs to be constructively engaged in addition to 'serving his time.' I think it's the kids with nothing to lose that do the most desperate things. Pulling every joy from his life seems like a recipe for creating an angry, destructive teen. Short leash-yes, but relentless long-term punishment seems more about societal revenge than it does about correcting this child.

 

Boy Scouts can be an excellent way to constructively engage a child. I hate it when I hear of people who take it away as a punishment. Just doesn't make sense to me.

[swellmomma]

Let's just say I would not have selected the community service. DS would have been in juvie, no extra currics when he got out, I would have quit my job immediately to school him at home, and then when school started again I would go with him each day to class. Afterall it is obvious he is a danger to others out of my presence so I would be sitting in each class with him each day until such time I felt he was safe to send to school on his own, that day may not arrive until high school graduation.

 

When home from school he would not have extra activities to go to, he would be doing work at home, work in the community and basically under lock and key, again until such time as I felt it was safe to allow him to go to other activities.

 

Counselling, anger management etc would be a must.

As far as BS and Karate I will be surprised if he is allowed to rejoin. The parents may allow it but I know of very very few sensei's that would allow a student to return that has been to court for violence. And if that boy was in my B.S. troop I would not allow his return. THat is not the kind of kid I want in my group with other boys, they are given so much freedom in BS troop and I would not trust this boy could be safe with the others and would prohibit his return.

 

But I am a hard a$$ and my kids know it. THe few times my ds has been in trouble with the law, no charges have been brought against him because the people in town know I will come down harder on him than any judge would, he has not had run ins due to violence however.

[TammyinTN]

I'm not sure I would take away his extra things, but I certainly would tomato stake him with me or my husband at all times. He would only be able to go to the bathroom alone and I would be outside the door. I would also add lots of manual labor work. We would weed the yard together, mow together, wash vehicles together...you name it...we would be together.

[swellmomma]

Excellent thoughts.... I don't know anyone who wouldn't dress up for court.

 

We had to go to court about a year ago to testify against ds's bully. DS was not dressed up. He was out of his typical sweatpants, but only into nicer looking trackpants and top. I would have prefered him to be in khaki's and a nice top, BUT he doesn't own any, and due to his sensory issues that would have caused more problems than being dressed casually in a courtroom.

 

I am not saying this boy has sensory issues at all, just that he may not own anything else, and that does not equate something negative, just that button down tops and ties may not be owned.

[Wabi Sabi]

Let's just say I would not have selected the community service. DS would have been in juvie, no extra currics when he got out, I would have quit my job immediately to school him at home, and then when school started again I would go with him each day to class. Afterall it is obvious he is a danger to others out of my presence so I would be sitting in each class with him each day until such time I felt he was safe to send to school on his own, that day may not arrive until high school graduation.

 

 

I have a brother who spent some time in juvie as a preteen/teenager and I just have to say, it only made things worse for him. The friends he made there weren't exactly upstanding young citizens. He left each time more hardened, with a rougher group of friends, and with new ideas for getting into trouble.

[swellmomma]

Quitting a job to homeschool- as if this is a good answer to everything. So overly simplistic.

 

.

 

Actually me saying quitting job to homeschool is for those 2 months the boy was already suspended from school. Yes it is that simple. Kid gets 2 month suspension, parents are saying they will school in the evenings, and only some evenings at best, so the kid has free reign all day at home. If it was my kids yeah not happening. I would quit my job and properly homeschool for those 2 months.

 

As for juvie, yes I get that some kids come out worse than going but not all do. I have seen community service in action for some kids it works, for others it doesn't just like juvie. A kid that is BRAGGING about his plan for violence and Exaggerating it to seem cooler community service would do nothing. The judge presented 2 options, based on those 2 options given I would have sent my kid to juvie and prayed that it scared him straight. For a kid so hell bent on violence community service would be a joke.

 

The answers may not be ideal but working within the parameters of what is already happening school suspension, judges options etc. I stand by what I would do if it was my kid.

 

I do not believe that life should go on hunky dory for teh kid and that is exactly what is happening.

[Impish]

I dont see any really good answers on this thread. I think removal of all the good things in his life or being kicked out of a discipline and structured activity like martial arts would be detrimental not beneficial.

 

I dont think there is anything particularly abnormal in bringing a weapon to school in our society, unfortunately. Not wise but not necessarily indicative of anything but lack of mature thinking. The kid is 12 not 20.

 

Juvie would be a terrible idea for reasons mentioned above.

 

Quitting a job to homeschool- as if this is a good answer to everything. So overly simplistic.

 

Most of these are just pat answers which sound good and hard a$$ed.

 

I doubt they'd have any significant impact for the better. This sort of situation requires a working knowledge of far too many details than are presented here and our society deals so poorly with youth who do things like this. I dont know what would help but its not taking away the DS or commenting on his attire, that's for sure.

I think you're overlooking some things.

 

One, any dojo I've known of makes it VERY clear to the students that any violence on their part = kicked out. Staying wouldn't even be an option. It's natural consequences for the behaviour.

 

And at 12, yes, I absolutely believe the kid should know better than that. Diva is 13, and there's no way she'd be thinking that bringing a weapon and planning to bash a kid's face in w/it would be a viable solution.

 

And then to be bragging about it, and claiming to have committed the violent act? Sorry, but this isn't merely a 'kid' thing. This is a kid w/a serious issue thing.

 

Counseling and tomato staking would be just the beginning if it were my child.

[Lisbeth]

My opinion is he does not belong in the general population of school children. I'm so tired of good kids having to put up with this kind of crap.

[Lisbeth]

I have a brother who spent some time in juvie as a preteen/teenager and I just have to say, it only made things worse for him. The friends he made there weren't exactly upstanding young citizens. He left each time more hardened, with a rougher group of friends, and with new ideas for getting into trouble.

 

I understand this, but my focus is on the good kids who are behaving. Protecting them is my priority #1. As for the violent/messed up kid, it is on his parents to provide for him. I was the kid who would be placed between the two bad kids to "neutralize" them. Yeah, right. I was just miserable and it WASN'T MY JOB. I should've been rewarded, not punished, for being well-behaved.

[Lisbeth]

Bc good kids never do bad things. Obviously.

 

People are not disposable and esp not at AGE 12.

 

If you are bringing in a heavy weapon to hit a kid in the face...you are by definition NOT A GOOD KID. Sorry, harsh truth from my point of view. The other kids are not disposable either. What if he had hit that kid with this heavy weapon? I guess that kid was just disposable!!

[Impish]

oh, so you'd give up income which may be irreplaceable for 2 months so you could homeschool? And you expect everyone to do the same? Really?

 

 

I dont really care what blanket policy the dojos you know have, but I think if the goal is to help the child overcome his issues that isnt the answer.

Ummm...why would it be the goal of a dojo to equip a child w/violent tendancies to better accomplish injuring others?

 

And why is it the dojo's responsibility to start w/? It's the parent's responsibility. Nothing to do w/the dojo. The policy to disallow the child to continue is for everyone's sake, and it's not a secret. Why should a child who breaks this policy get a pass? Makes no sense.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

I can't say what I'd do.

 

Probably get some counseling first. Secondly, find out what was happening at school that my son would think bringing a crowbar was the only solution. Thirdly, instruct my son that reciprocating violence for violence is not the appropriate

 

If it came to the court case, I'd definitely choose community service over juvenile detention. I think those places are run like prisons- more business enterprises than "correctional" institutions.

 

What happened to the kid who was bothering him?

[swellmomma]

oh, so you'd give up income which may be irreplaceable for 2 months so you could homeschool? And you expect everyone to do the same? Really?

 

 

I dont really care what blanket policy the dojos you know have, but I think if the goal is to help the child overcome his issues that isnt the answer.

 

Yeah actually I would. If it meant the difference between making sure my child stayed out of trouble and got their life back on track or letting them continue with the same behaviours because I wasn't as involved as I should be you can bet I would. My child's future is more important than 2 months income.

 

I don't get why you are so antagonistic about this. The OP posted the scenario, what the school has done, what options the judge offered and asked what we would do if hypothetically our children had done this action. And you got snarky with everyone because you don't like the responses.

 

If you wouldn't be so harsh with your own kids that's up to you. I on the other hand would be. I have been in dealing with my son in the past and it has worked. He is on the right track, staying out of trouble. I doubt he would be if I responded as the parent's did in the OP. Each child is different, the OP asked what we would do if it was OUR child, for my child the response I posted would be what I would do. No need to take offense to it.

 

I don't get what your problem is on this topic.

Edited July 11, 2012 by swellmomma

[swellmomma]

My problem is I think most of the pat silly useless answers in this thread are from people who have no idea what they are talking about.:)

 

Hypothesizing about what you might do if your kid committed such an act is silly bc chances are you have no idea what you would do and frankly, when you have a kid who has these problems, there are no easy answers at all. if you had any experience dealing with troubled kid or even a normal kid who did something shocking you'd know that.:)

 

 

Well I know what I have done with my ds. A boy by all accounts that is/was troubled, and has done shocking things. I was a hard a$$ with him. For 1 incident I was the one that turned him into the police. For another he was given community service and I was right there next to him supervising. For another I was the one that made sure he followed the fact he could not return to a store.

 

The trouble he has had has thus far not involved premeditation and bragging about violence with a weapon. Though he has been in trouble for uttering threats with a weapon.

 

I am not talking out my arse when it comes to what I would do. I am a hard a$$, my kids know it, they know if they mess up I am coming down hard on them. THe town knows it, which is why most of those involved have opted not to press formal charges.

 

No 12 yr olds should not be written off, BUT I am a strong believer that if you do the crime you do the time. Being 12 does not suddenly negate the gravity of th situation. He planned a violent act, he brought a weapon to school to commit the act. He then lied and bragged about the act. Had the boy brought a gun to school instead of a crowbar would your thoughts change?

 

Reality is you commit a violent act towards another to this extent you go to jail. You lose your job, you lose your place in society. No a 12 year old does not need to have those things gone for his lifetime, but he certainly needs to feel reality in the situation. If he is able to skate by due to his age that teaches him nothing.

 

I would rather be a hard a$$, and cause his world to come to a screeching stop for what ever time I felt necessary to make the changes necessary that when he is 18 any court records are sealed, he has his education and the future is open to him. I am of the firm belief that if not made to see the reality of the situation and it is treated as a little blip (this was not a shoplifting incident after all, it was a premediated crime that likely would have resulted in the disfigurement or death of another child) this child will continue down this path and end up as a blight to society, and/or in the prison system.

 

I feel that being a hard a$$ about it now at 12 is the exact opposite of giving up on the child. It is showing the child that A) there is dire consequences for those actions and B) dealing with those consequences and getting the child help is my #1 priority.

 

Like I said I have used this method with my kids and it works. So for my kids you can bet if they planned to commit such a violent act I would do exactly as I wrote in my first response.

[Impish]

your boy is 12.

 

your experience with an N of 1 is irrelevant.

:confused:

[swellmomma]

your boy is 12.

 

your experience with an N of 1 is irrelevant.

 

My boy is going on 14, and what exactly do you mean by the bolded?

[Lang Syne Boardie]

What bizarre responses, calandalsmom. Really? You think no person in this thread has had personal experience with a kid who needs serious intervention? Not a child, sibling, cousin, neighbor, or even self? You think all the posters live in some pretty bubble where all the kids are squeaky clean and perfectly good?

 

If you are the only one who knows what to do, don't you have some kind of moral obligation to tell everyone else what that right response is? Because I notice you haven't mentioned any solutions other than for society to accept and tolerate a 12yo with a backpack full of crowbar and a mind full of malicious intent.

[swellmomma]

What bizarre responses, calandalsmom. Really? You think no person in this thread has had personal experience with a kid who needs serious intervention? Not a child, sibling, cousin, neighbor, or even self? You think all the posters live in some pretty bubble where all the kids are squeaky clean and perfectly good?

 

If you are the only one who knows what to do, don't you have some kind of moral obligation to tell everyone else what that right response is? Because I notice you haven't mentioned any solutions other than for society to accept and tolerate a 12yo with a backpack full of crowbar and a mind full of malicious intent.

 

oooh where's my magic wand to make that true here lol

[Kissy]

I don't think the punishment was harsh enough. Would they have done something different if he would have used the crowbar? His intent was the same either way and bragging shows the intent never changed. Personally I think the parents should take away his extracurriculars for the same amount of time he is out of school. Temporarily removing him will hold him back some but not completely because the programs are good but the child needs to know it is a privilege to not be put in jail for those actions. He should have to write an apology letter and it wouldn't hurt to go to counseling to see how he can resolve the feelings that brought on the actions. I actually think going to work with dad is ok it is bound to be boring for him, I hope they either put him to work or have him bring schoolwork. This is what we would do in the same situation.

[Harriet Vane]

My problem is I think most of the pat silly useless answers in this thread are from people who have no idea what they are talking about.:)

 

Hypothesizing about what you might do if your kid committed such an act is silly bc chances are you have no idea what you would do and frankly, when you have a kid who has these problems, there are no easy answers at all. if you had any experience dealing with troubled kid or even a normal kid who did something shocking you'd know that.:)

 

Okay, I have EXTENSIVE experience with troubled kids and I don't think this thread is full of pat silly useless answers at all.

 

I had one sister in and out if drug rehab and juvie for seven years, and two other siblings who partied really hard but got away with it. I have also had fourteen years experience with troubled youth in inner-city Chicago both in and out of the foster care system.

 

A kid struggling in the way the OPs kid is needs an entirely new context that includes entirely new friends and tons of adult supervision. He also needs to work hard physically and be waaaaaay busier.

 

I would have chosen community service.

 

I would not allow the kid back at the same public school. EVER.

 

I would get therapy for the kid, as well as some serious exercise, whether that means being involved in a sport or jogging morning and night with dad.

 

Martial arts would be at least on a moratorium. I was in martial arts myself for two years, and my school had a strict policy against inappropriate violence. OPs kid should not be in martial arts until he has earned the right to be there.

 

I think one of the parents should cut down work hours significantly to spend more time with the kid.

 

Kid's social life would become heavily supervised, and socializing would occur only in my home or with a parent present.

 

None of this has to be ugly or mean--it can be done in a positive manner.

 

The kid in the OP is standing on the edge of a cliff. Drastic measures are needed to save his life. I am not exaggerating, and I have the YEARS of experience under my belt to say so.

 

To Chucki and others puzzled about the trial--it was probably a juvenile court trial, which is totally different from an adult criminal court trial. Standards for charges and so forth are totally different.

[swellmomma]

Okay, I have EXTENSIVE experience with troubled kids and I don't think this thread is full of pat silly useless answers at all.

 

I had one sister in and out if drug rehab and juvie for seven years, and two other siblings who partied really hard but got away with it. I have also had fourteen years experience with troubled youth in inner-city Chicago both in and out of the foster care system.

 

A kid struggling in the way the OPs kid is needs an entirely new context that includes entirely new friends and tons of adult supervision. He also needs to work hard physically and be waaaaaay busier.

 

I would have chosen community service.

 

I would not allow the kid back at the same public school. EVER.

 

I would get therapy for the kid, as well as some serious exercise, whether that means being involved in a sport or jogging morning and night with dad.

 

Martial arts would be at least on a moratorium. I was in marital arts myself for two years, and my school had a strict policy against inappropriate violence. OPs kid should not be in martial arts until he has earned the right to be there.

 

I think one of the parents should cut down work hours significantly to spend more time with the kid.

 

Kid's social life would become heavily supervised, and socializing would occur only in my home or with a parent present.

 

None of this has to be ugly or mean--it can be done in a positive manner.

 

The kid in the OP is standing on the edge of a cliff. Drastic measures are needed to save his life. I am not exaggerating, and I have the YEARS of experience under my belt to say so.

 

To Chucki and others puzzled about the trial--it was probably a juvenile court trial, which is totally different from an adult criminal court trial. Standards for charges and so forth are totally different.

 

 

This is where my thoughts were too, and why my response was to be the hard a$$.

[Parrothead]

your boy is 12.

 

your experience with an N of 1 is irrelevant.

? :confused: Is this math? What is N?

[Impish]

? :confused: Is this math? What is N?

So glad I'm not the only one confused by that!

[BakersDozen]

If he wasn't arrested how was there a trial? There would have had to have been charges brought against him.

 

The school did not call the police and have him arrested (a big mistake, imo) however there were charges against him and he did have to have a trial.

 

As the parent, I would take my kid to counseling. This sounds like the beginning of a very bad road. He thinks his sentence is funny and he continues to be boastful. It sounds like he has no remorse. Something is mentally wrong with him. I'm not talking about something like schizophrenia. I'm talking about his need to dominate and intimidate.

This describes the boy perfectly. I do not believe there is a shred of remorse and I saw mental issues in him from the time he was very little.

 

FTR, dressing in a goth style doesn't necessarily automatically equal being bad or evil.

No, of course not, but I found it funny (in a not funny way) that his parents are so eager to present their ds as a good kid that they completely changed how he looks before going to the judge. I would have had him in his regular clothes, but that's just me. Knowing this boy/family like I do, I saw it as the parents trying to help their kid when really they didn't do him any favors. The mom has more than once complained about how her ds dresses (she seems to forget she is the mom) and does compare his outfits to gangster attire, yet suddenly she pulls out and makes him wear something completely different...it just seems hypocritical and like she missed out on a chance for a lesson learned.

just that he may not own anything else, and that does not equate something negative, just that button down tops and ties may not be owned.

Oh, he has nice clothes, trust me.

 

Child's life would be come very sterile. No electronics, no extras.

He has a smartphone the parents "thought about taking away" but decided against doing so. Nothing has changed as far as what he owns/uses/does.

 

What happened to the kid who was bothering him?

I don't know but I can find out. I've watched this 12yo for so many years that I am fairly sure how things went down: He's a small kid who's been enabled by his parents and allowed to be a horrific bully. His parents are hard of hearing so he has learned to quietly antagonize others (including my own dc...only I have excellent hearing ;)). He's mean...just plain mean. He is destructive to the point I cannot leave him alone with any of my dc. He despises all authority and views others as stupid and to be controlled/manipulated. He even tries to take me on (stupid thing to do).

 

The kid in the OP is standing on the edge of a cliff. Drastic measures are needed to save his life. I am not exaggerating, and I have the YEARS of experience under my belt to say so.

 

 

:iagree: My concern for this child has been huge ever since I met him as a 1yo (yes, he was out of control even back then and I'm not talking normal toddler behavior). Over the years my alarm has increased so this latest incident didn't surprise me. What did suprise me is what the school/parents did.

 

Well, ladies, thank you for your input. My mind and heart are greatly troubled over this and yet I wasn't sure if I was just being too hard on him.

 

If you feel led, please pray for this situation. The mom shares updates with me yet she has not outright asked for my input so I don't feel I can share anything with her without overstepping my bounds. Oh, how I wish she would just ask...

[SKL]

Kid needs psychological help if he's proud to tell people that he hit or wanted to hit someone in the face with a crowbar.

 

That would be my focus. And since that kind of thinking/behavior is immature, I'd institute supervision appriate to the apparent maturity level.

 

He did not in fact hit anyone. I do not believe that it's a crime to bring a tool to school in a backpack. It does no good to criminalize such neutral acts. If he actually pulled it out and menaced another child with it, that would be assault and should be treated as such.

 

I would also want to know what is being done about the other child who inspired such anger in my child. Was my child just overreacting or was there bullying going on? A one-sided reaction to a two-sided problem won't fix things.

[Impish]

Kid needs psychological help if he's proud to tell people that he hit or wanted to hit someone in the face with a crowbar.

 

That would be my focus. And since that kind of thinking/behavior is immature, I'd institute supervision appriate to the apparent maturity level.

 

He did not in fact hit anyone. I do not believe that it's a crime to bring a tool to school in a backpack. It does no good to criminalize such neutral acts. If he actually pulled it out and menaced another child with it, that would be assault and should be treated as such.

 

I would also want to know what is being done about the other child who inspired such anger in my child. Was my child just overreacting or was there bullying going on? A one-sided reaction to a two-sided problem won't fix things.

Wouldn't a crowbar in a backpack be considered a concealed weapon? And the child bragged about the intent...even saying that he HAD committed assault.

 

I don't think a crowbar in a back pack, w/the expressed intent to smash a child in the face is a neutral act.

[justLisa]

This is such a sad case. How terrible that boy did not have the help he needed early on