"Flipped" classrooms

[Dmmetler]

I still keep my membership on a professional teaching board (mostly because even though I'm no longer teaching, I've found that it's good for ME to keep up with just how messed up the schools are), and the current discussions are on "flipping" your classroom. Basically, in a flipped classroom, the teacher creates a podcast of the lesson in advance, for the student to watch at home on their time (or sets up links to specific lessons on sites like Kahn academy or provided by textbook publishers). The concept is that the kids come into school, already knowing the basics, and then class time can be spent on practice, answering questions, and higher order thinking activities.

 

All I can think on reading this is that they want the parents to homeschool the lesson the night before, and then use the school as a study hall the next day!

 

Does anyone live in an area, or have family members who have schools that are doing this?

[LostSurprise]

This is actually the theory Kahn Academy is based on. Have you seen his TED talk?

[bbmom]

I actually think this is a great idea for some higher level science/math concepts. The teachers don't want the parents to homeschool the lesson, just for the students (middle school or higher, so capable of independent viewing) to watch the video so that they come to class with a basic understanding of the concept which can then be expanded upon and then the teacher can spend more class time making sure students understand the concept instead of explaining it all from start to finish. For the teachers I know who use it, the video lecture/podcast takes the place of most written homework.

[Murphy101]

It doesn't sound any different than telling students to read the text prior to class so they are prepared with questions and basic info during class time.

 

However, I share your concern that crummy teachers will use it to turn the class time into nothing more than study hall. I had a couple math teachers do that at community college. We were supposed to read the text and figure out the homework on our own and then in class she would go over any problems students said they couldn't figure out. I hated it. It turned class time into a complete waste of my time. If I'm able to figure it out on my own, why the heck am I wasting 1.5-3 hours in her class and several $100 dollars? The campus had a math lab, so if I was stuck, i could go there anytime instead of waiting until the next class period. (And I usually did. In fact, often if I didn't get the math for the next week, I would go straight to math lab after her class and before my next class.) And apparently I wasn't the only that felt that way. At the start of term she would write the assigned section due the next class session on the board. Most of us woud spend class time working ahead and basically ignore her until or if we had a questions and then just get up and leave. So to prevent us leaving she would not post the assignment until the last 15 minutes of class.:glare: There was usually a bunch of conversation that had nothing to do with math, much less the current math topic spattered wi a couple students that were struggling and did have math questions. The other 15ish of us were extremely bored, frustrated, and annoyed.

 

But I also had teacher who expected us to read the lessons/texts prior to class and then we all had a basic foundation to discuss and explore during class time. When done that way, it is very helpful. In fact, when done that way it is VERY frustrating when other students don't participate.

 

I just don't see how it could work well with something like math. There just isn't a whole lot to chitter chatter about, yk? It seems to me, the kids that are good at math will just learn it solo and be bored in class and the kids who aren't are going to spend most of the assignment time staring at their screen/book with a blank stare. At least that's how my not good at math self felt about it.

[mom2scouts]

Uh, aren't teachers supposed to teach? Students are there all day long and now they're supposed to do the lesson before they get there? As others have said, this might work for upper level high school or college classes, but I don't think it's appropriate for younger children.

[swellmomma]

I think it is a great idea. We were always instructed to read the text ahead so we would be prepared coming into class BUT how many middle and high school students actually do that? A podcast means the majority would. It is also a typical skill used in college, studying ahead to be ready for class, doing it through middle/high school prepares students for that skill in college imo. I think it is a great idea.

[sparrow]

Flipped classrooms were featured on The Story last month:

 

http://thestory.org/archive/The_Story_41612.mp3/view

 

I found it a fascinating listen. They talked with teachers, administrators, and students.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

My distance-tutoring situation is beginning to look a lot like this.

 

I create whiteboard lectures with an iPad app called "Educreations." I can upload those to the internet for my student to watch on her own time before she does her homework. Then, during our daily discussion, I go over her homework with her through document sharing (Google docs) while we chat over Skype. This has been tremendously effective.

 

I also made a private blog for my student's school. I post all assignments there, and I also link to a Google doc sample of every single type of assignment I give her. I add supplemental links, videos, and activities to the blog, as well.

 

She uploads her work to Google docs and emails her homework to me, or posts it on the blog. She watches/reads everything I put on the blog and adds her comments. She makes videos of her science labs and history presentations, and adds those to the blog, as well. Again, she gets instruction through whiteboard lectures she can view anytime, and also through written instruction on the blog, and then I just have to make corrections and clarifications during our real time class.

 

If a student is mature enough to work independently AND does very well with written instruction, this flipping of the classroom really works. I only get 1.5 hours with my student every afternoon, and I want to spend that time discussing her reading assignments, helping her revise her writing, and teaching any math concepts that weren't properly understood. If I have to spend real time teaching, the follow-up will suffer.

 

And the best benefit for me: I can carve out that 1.5 hours of my busy day to hold my tutored student's class, but that is the most time I can take away from my own family's needs during the day. But I can create whiteboard lectures, add resources to the blog, and look over my student's revised homework while my own children are busy with other things or sleeping.

 

In my opinion, this system wouldn't work with an indifferent student, or a student who doesn't do well with written instruction. Two of my own children would totally fail at this. They need verbal, in-person instruction and modeling first, and then support while they do the homework.

[SonshineLearner]

Wow, I can see benefits to both ways :) I think that with diligent parents, this could be great!! (Or really good teacher videos) Then the students could go discuss the subject... which is what I would LOVE my kids to do!! This way I could watch with them, too, to see some of what's taught :)

[*Michelle*]

I can understand the concept, but I don't really see how it would apply in real life, especially at the grammar level. A teacher friend pinned this and I just clicked on her pin to see what it was.

 

 

 

It just seems like even more of an intrusion of the school into the home. Not only is your kid at school all day, now he's having to have online discussions with his teacher and classmates about the next day's lesson at home? In addition to homework?

[swellmomma]

I can understand the concept, but I don't really see how it would apply in real life, especially at the grammar level. A teacher friend pinned this and I just clicked on her pin to see what it was.

 

 

 

 

It just seems like even more of an intrusion of the school into the home. Not only is your kid at school all day, now he's having to have online discussions with his teacher and classmates about the next day's lesson at home? In addition to homework?

 

From what I understand these 5-7 minute podcasts ARE the homework. Sounds less intrusive to me than the multiple hours of homework we used to have to do.

[regentrude]

Basically, in a flipped classroom, the teacher creates a podcast of the lesson in advance, for the student to watch at home on their time (or sets up links to specific lessons on sites like Kahn academy or provided by textbook publishers). The concept is that the kids come into school, already knowing the basics, and then class time can be spent on practice, answering questions, and higher order thinking activities.

 

Yeah, they can keep dreaming. It won't work. That is how *college* is supposed to work - yet not even the college students manage to do the assigned reading before coming to class.

[FaithManor]

From what I understand these 5-7 minute podcasts ARE the homework. Sounds less intrusive to me than the multiple hours of homework we used to have to do.

 

I think that if implemented properly, it could work and especially if it frees up more time to work examples on the board and do the work in class.

 

It would be tougher, though not impossible, for grammar stage. But I can actually see it working for grades 6-12. Well, working for those kids and those parents willing to do it. But that is always the case no matter what. My friend that teaches high school algebra 2 has two individuals that refuse to open their books in class and crumple all handouts and toss them at his face. (The principal is unwilling to do anything about the disrespect.) These kids aren't going to read in advance or watch a lecture online. But, they aren't willing to do ANYTHING and that can't be fixed by the teacher or administration. I think it is good preparation for vo-tech and college as class prep is the norm for the kids and parents that will make the effort.

 

Faith

[sparrow]

From what I understand these 5-7 minute podcasts ARE the homework. Sounds less intrusive to me than the multiple hours of homework we used to have to do.

 

:iagree: And from the The Story radio show I linked, the kids really appreciated that they could watch the podcasts from their phone, etc.

 

The other positive in that story was that *families* were learning together. The young man featured in the story said his mom was learning math concepts *with* him by watching the podcasts.

Edited May 29, 2012 by sparrow

[swellmomma]

I think that if implemented properly, it could work and especially if it frees up more time to work examples on the board and do the work in class.

 

It would be tougher, though not impossible, for grammar stage. But I can actually see it working for grades 6-12. Well, working for those kids and those parents willing to do it. But that is always the case no matter what. My friend that teaches high school algebra 2 has two individuals that refuse to open their books in class and crumple all handouts and toss them at his face. (The principal is unwilling to do anything about the disrespect.) These kids aren't going to read in advance or watch a lecture online. But, they aren't willing to do ANYTHING and that can't be fixed by the teacher or administration. I think it is good preparation for vo-tech and college as class prep is the norm for the kids and parents that will make the effort.

 

Faith

 

I agree completely that this should NOT be done for grammar stage but 6-12 I think it is a wonderful idea. From the thing linked above, it looks like for those students without computer access at home or with unsupportive families the teacher still provides them a way to view the podcast or to teach directly to them. As well as helping others. If done right I think it could be brilliant, but the caution about lazy teachers.

 

No not all kids will be reached, but not all kids are being reached now. I think that MORE will be though if they know they will get proper help, they don't have to chose between 3 hours of homework or extracurrics/family time etc, they do not miss lessons due to illness/appts/travel. After all they can pull that podcast up anywhere.

 

I see far more positives to it than negatives, though there are negatives to be sure.

[Halftime Hope]

I see how it can help, but I'm concerned that in some subjects the 5-7 minute video would have about the same richness as Cliff Notes.

[myfunnybunch]

I think it's almost exactly the same as asking students to read Chapter Such-and-such for homework the night before the lesson, just different technology.

 

My teachers were doing that when I was in high school. We were expected to come to class prepared for the lesson.

 

Cat

[In The Great White North]

From what I understand these 5-7 minute podcasts ARE the homework.

 

Do I understand correctly that they are ADMITTING that they only use 5-7 minutes of their 50 minute period for instruction?

 

One of the more irritating things "back in the day," was being assigned a reading for homework and then having to listen to the same material in class the next day.

 

West Point calls it the Thayer Method. The cadets come to class, having already learned the material out of the textbook, and then present it to the professor. "Gentlemen, take boards." They stand at the blackboard and show the solutions to the problems.

 

It wasn't really the same thing. "Take boards" typically only happened daily in math and only lasted the first 10 minutes or so of class. The professor explained the material one day, assigned homework, the cadet did the homework overnight and presented it at boards the next day, then the professor went on to explain the next day's material. The cadet was not expected to learn the material on his own before class.

[Farrar]

It's like any concept in education... Some teachers will take it and do wonders with it. Other teachers will have it foisted on them, not know what to do with it, and completely screw it up. I've really come to the conclusion that there's not one magic bullet to save classrooms and the more we look for it, the more mess we make.

[6packofun]

I like the idea, as well, for higher grades where taking responsibility for the material is a given and the teacher is there to instruct, correct, and discuss the harder concepts in the classroom. I think this method utilizes the teacher in a much more productive way!

 

I remember having class time where there was some instruction and then assignments given, going home to read and hoping I remembered what the teacher said about certain concepts (or trying to tie my notes to the reading *afterwards*), and having parents who could not help me one bit if I had a question. Next class, there was very little time for discussing WHY a concept was confusing for some, it was just turning in homework, hoping for the best and doing the same thing all over again.

[Gingerbread Mama]

It's like any concept in education... Some teachers will take it and do wonders with it. Other teachers will have it foisted on them, not know what to do with it, and completely screw it up. I've really come to the conclusion that there's not one magic bullet to save classrooms and the more we look for it, the more mess we make.

 

:iagree:This. Also, it needs to be understood that it will work WELL for some students and not at all for others. My concerns are:

 

If it's a 5-7 min podcast, will they go over everything in class the next day before starting the worksheets or whatever? I mean, it's silly to do 7 min or less of instruction and then spend an hour long class filling out a worksheet. I'd hope the podcast is viewed as enrichment, not in place of...

 

I know some students who could soak it all up from a podcast, I'm thinking of one or two in particular. The problem would be that then they'd be bored the next day. One student, the girl, would handle that by trying to help teach the class (which has annoyed a few teachers, but hasn't annoyed students...yet), the boy would become a holy terror - if he isn't busy, he's causing trouble. Both are super smart kids. So how will they challenge kids who need work to stay on task? I'm not saying it CAN'T be done, but, at our old school, they didn't really want to give "extra" work to a smart kid who finished early but then complained if they were disruptive...

 

Lastly, how vital is the podcast to the lesson? Some kids aren't going to do it. Period. Some parents won't make sure they do. Period. How is that handled?

 

What worries me is that school systems seem to think if it works at the upper levels, it'll work dandy at the lower levels. I've seen a big move towards "putting it on the student" at our old elementary school. It is WAY too much for a younger kid, they need the guidance and attention (most of them.) I just forsee some dingbat in administration wanting to institute this for first graders...

[ElizaG]

But that could be a result of having to encounter that type of learning for the first time in their lives. If prior to college students are used to preparation for lessons, then perhaps they will be more successful at it by the time college rolls around. After all, prior to college, students have been spoonfed their lessons. All of a sudden in college they have to go learn the lessons on their own with minimal help from professors. It is an entire new way of doing things. What if they had been trained in that model all along? It is possible that college would become easier for them.

But is this method training the students to learn the lessons on their own? It seems to me that it's training them to watch pre-recorded, specially designed "instructional" lectures that pull out the main concepts and present them to the students along with visual aids, etc. And maybe have their parents walk them through it. That sounds like another form of spoonfeeding. [ETA: I guess Wendy and I are thinking along similar lines!]

 

Unless college professors are also going to start providing these short, predigested video lectures to be viewed before the start of each of their classes, I can't see how the students are going to be any better adapted to higher education than they are now.

 

I think part of the problem with this whole model is that it treats people like computers. The process of learning is a bit mysterious, but one thing that seems certain is that we don't simply passively "download" information (in the lecture, video, or readings) and then actively "run" it (in the class discussion).

[LaxMom]

That's funny. I was just listening to a discussion that included flipped classrooms on the Kojo Nnamdi Show.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

I like the idea, as well, for higher grades where taking responsibility for the material is a given and the teacher is there to instruct, correct, and discuss the harder concepts in the classroom. I think this method utilizes the teacher in a much more productive way!

 

I remember having class time where there was some instruction and then assignments given, going home to read and hoping I remembered what the teacher said about certain concepts (or trying to tie my notes to the reading *afterwards*), and having parents who could not help me one bit if I had a question. Next class, there was very little time for discussing WHY a concept was confusing for some, it was just turning in homework, hoping for the best and doing the same thing all over again.

 

I think this could work at the high school level, not before. Making the kids take some initiative for getting acquainted with the material before a classroom discussion seems like a great idea. But, it would need to be followed up in the classroom with the teacher making sure everyone understood the concepts and had time to cover all questions before having a conversation or practice session about the material. Which leads to:

 

It's like any concept in education... Some teachers will take it and do wonders with it. Other teachers will have it foisted on them, not know what to do with it, and completely screw it up. I've really come to the conclusion that there's not one magic bullet to save classrooms and the more we look for it, the more mess we make.

 

I agree with this, too. Some teachers would be able to make the flipping work, some wouldn't.

[Pamela H in Texas]

That is kinda how college often works. It is also how the education program in our religion (as well as at many other churches) is done. To me, it makes sense. Spend some time with it, work with it a little, sleep on it, discuss it with a friend, whatever...then go to class and the professional can figure how well it is going so far and go from there. More opportunity for learning in the classroom, taking things further, etc. It makes a WHOLE LOT more sense than sending them home with work they may not fully grasp then have to spend a second day on the basics of it...JMO

 

ETA: I completely agree that there is a LOT of room for lousy and/or inept and/or lazy teachers to completely make a mess of it.

Edited May 29, 2012 by 2J5M9K

[*Michelle*]

I just don't understand how a 5 to 7 minute podcast is going to help a kid out. The ones that can grasp the concept from that presentation are the same ones who would grasp the concept from the initial presentation in class. The ones that would need back and forth with the teacher in order to understand would still need back and forth. If the teacher is not available for online discussion, that conversation would still need to occur during class time.

 

The only way I see it making a difference is if, as in the graphic, the teacher and students are participating in online discussion together. But, if they are, aren't they basically doing "school" during home time and homework during school time? What's the point?

[FloridaLisa]

West Point calls it the Thayer Method. The cadets come to class, having already learned the material out of the textbook, and then present it to the professor. "Gentlemen, take boards." They stand at the blackboard and show the solutions to the problems. It sounds like a disaster in an elementary classroom.

 

Yeah, they can keep dreaming. It won't work. That is how *college* is supposed to work - yet not even the college students manage to do the assigned reading before coming to class.

 

Law school operates like this. Law students read cases, outline them and (try to) extract the legal prinicples before coming to class. The professor then uses the Socratic method in class to guide the discussion based on the reading. You better believe we came in prepared!

 

I would also think this is how many co-op classes are taught. With only an hour a week, the students do the reading at home. Class time is used for furthering the lesson, through experiments, hands-on activities, lectures, discussion, analysis.

 

As to using it with elementary students, my 1st grader read his science chapter and did some homework before coming to class so I absolutely think it can be done and probably allows much more information to stick.

 

Lisa

[WeeBeaks]

Haven't read the entire thread, so might be already mentioned ... most of my college classes were like this, though the professor did lecture too. Having already a beginning knowledge helped a lot on understanding the more in depth lectures. I thought it was a great idea.

[magnificent_baby]

Uh, aren't teachers supposed to teach? Students are there all day long and now they're supposed to do the lesson before they get there? As others have said, this might work for upper level high school or college classes, but I don't think it's appropriate for younger children.

 

 

This would be more than what dd was getting in ps. No direct teaching at all (2nd grade anyway, K & 1st were wonderful).

[Bluegoat]

Yeah, but law school is a graduate program right? I mean at that point if a person has not got it together they probably never will. Unfortunately, undergrads are not always like that.

 

So they flunk out, which is not IMO a bad thing if they don't have it together.

 

The Oxbridge model has used an even more radical approach for undergraduates - they don't really even have to go to class or lectures. As long as they produce stuff their tutor is happy with and pass the exams at the end, they are good.

 

I think it could work in some subjects if done well - probably I'd not want to do it much before high school. The only way it would work in elementary is if the parents were involved, and I don't think that is a great thing to assume. Of course that applies to regular homework as well.

[YaelAldrich]

That's funny. I was just listening to a discussion that included flipped classrooms on the Kojo Nnamdi Show.

 

I was listening to that as I did my errands today; the kids were bugging me to turn it off, but I was too fascinated.

 

What did you think about the need for computers at all levels and the "digital age" that our children will (supposedly) be facing?

 

My kids said, "If all the kids my age have computers, all they will want to do is play video games"!

 

Also, Kojo mentioned there was a school system that had installed wi-fi on its buses and there was more quiet and less disciplinary issues. Well, duh! -- we put screens in front of children from the time they wake up until the time they go to bed (TVs, computers, DVDs in the car, smartphones all day long). Of course they don't have to interact with real live humans, just screens! :confused:

Edited May 29, 2012 by YaelAldrich
forgot to add something.

[Dmmetler]

Law school operates like this. Law students read cases, outline them and (try to) extract the legal prinicples before coming to class. The professor then uses the Socratic method in class to guide the discussion based on the reading. You better believe we came in prepared!

 

I would also think this is how many co-op classes are taught. With only an hour a week, the students do the reading at home. Class time is used for furthering the lesson, through experiments, hands-on activities, lectures, discussion, analysis.

 

As to using it with elementary students, my 1st grader read his science chapter and did some homework before coming to class so I absolutely think it can be done and probably allows much more information to stick.

 

Lisa

 

The thing about a co-op, though, is that you DO expect parents to be involved, because it's not expected that a once-a-week class is the entire subject. That's not the case when you send your child to PS for 30 hours a week, I'd think, and I know that the moms who sit with me while our girls dance complain about the amount of input and actual teaching they're having to do now (I've taught at least three moms various parts of fractions and one long division so they could teach their child their homework-because the school was using a computer program for homework which assigned problems without any relationship to what the kids were actually being taught in school and didn't include an instructional component).

[Pamela H in Texas]

Law school operates like this. Law students read cases, outline them and (try to) extract the legal prinicples before coming to class. The professor then uses the Socratic method in class to guide the discussion based on the reading. You better believe we came in prepared!

 

And that has a place. I really think that not having consequences is part of the issue with schools. Now they read novels in class so that kids will read them at all. Now they spoonfeed every tiny thing. If they don't, kids won't have a chance of passing the almighty test. But if they put the responsibility where it belonged and had real world consequences....maybe?

 

I would also think this is how many co-op classes are taught. With only an hour a week, the students do the reading at home. Class time is used for furthering the lesson, through experiments, hands-on activities, lectures, discussion, analysis.

 

Ideally. It wasn't my experience with how it went though. I spent over half my time teaching what the kids should have already learned with their parents. Of course, their parents (yes, "homeschool" parents) didn't even make sure they read the material, much less studied, learned the lessons, etc. So they didn't get nearly enough out of the hands on portions because I could only do so much in that time period I had.

 

I wish I had said, "if you don't come prepared, you can leave."

[Pamela H in Texas]

Law school operates like this. Law students read cases, outline them and (try to) extract the legal prinicples before coming to class. The professor then uses the Socratic method in class to guide the discussion based on the reading. You better believe we came in prepared!

 

And that has a place. I really think that not having consequences is part of the issue with schools. Now they read novels in class so that kids will read them at all. Now they spoonfeed every tiny thing. If they don't, kids won't have a chance of passing the almighty test. But if they put the responsibility where it belonged and had real world consequences....maybe?

 

I would also think this is how many co-op classes are taught. With only an hour a week, the students do the reading at home. Class time is used for furthering the lesson, through experiments, hands-on activities, lectures, discussion, analysis.

 

Ideally. It wasn't my experience with how it went though. I spent over half my time teaching what the kids should have already learned with their parents. Of course, their parents (yes, "homeschool" parents) didn't even make sure they read the material, much less studied, learned the lessons, etc. So they didn't get nearly enough out of the hands on portions because I could only do so much in that time period I had.

 

I wish I had said, "if you don't come prepared, you can leave."

[EmilyK]

I actually think this is a great idea for some higher level science/math concepts. The teachers don't want the parents to homeschool the lesson, just for the students (middle school or higher, so capable of independent viewing) to watch the video so that they come to class with a basic understanding of the concept which can then be expanded upon and then the teacher can spend more class time making sure students understand the concept instead of explaining it all from start to finish. For the teachers I know who use it, the video lecture/podcast takes the place of most written homework.

 

I saw Bill Gates speak and this was a centerpiece of the discussion. I think done well, it is really good. For math, done well it is a good way to keep things moving at a pace interesting to the fast learners. Class time is spent focusing on one-on-one tutoring and troubleshooting problem issues, rather than on a lecture.

 

One of my favorite college history professors hasd rethought his teaching. He handed out his lecture notes from his old-school days, and we were expected to have the material down, and then class would be more of a seminar type discussion. In law school, that's largely the method used too.

 

I think the real problem is that schools can't seem to get rid of the underperforming teachers. They will drag any method down.

[Joanne]

I think that can be a great, efficient, helpful learning tool.

[In the Rain]

It's like any concept in education... Some teachers will take it and do wonders with it. Other teachers will have it foisted on them, not know what to do with it, and completely screw it up. I've really come to the conclusion that there's not one magic bullet to save classrooms and the more we look for it, the more mess we make.

 

:iagree: This is pretty much what I was thinking. Some teachers will do a great job, and be able to plan fantastic activities for class time. Others will just use the classroom time for kids to work through what traditionally would have been homework.

[Cosmos]

I just don't understand how a 5 to 7 minute podcast is going to help a kid out. The ones that can grasp the concept from that presentation are the same ones who would grasp the concept from the initial presentation in class. The ones that would need back and forth with the teacher in order to understand would still need back and forth. If the teacher is not available for online discussion, that conversation would still need to occur during class time.

 

The only way I see it making a difference is if, as in the graphic, the teacher and students are participating in online discussion together. But, if they are, aren't they basically doing "school" during home time and homework during school time? What's the point?

 

Let's assume that teaching a new concept has three components to it:

 

A -- the teacher presents the topic in a lecture form

B -- the student asks questions to clarify his understanding

C -- the student applies the new knowledge to some exercises or applications

 

In a traditional classroom, components A and B take place in the classroom while component C takes place primarily at home. In the flipped classroom, components B and C take place in the classroom while component A takes place at home.

 

It's meant to address the fact that ideally a student would have a knowledgeable teacher or tutor during both component B and C. If a student struggles with the homework (part C) and does not have a parent or tutor who can actually help him, then that time may be a complete waste.

 

Technology has made it possible for part A to happen at home. I like some things about this idea. Lecturing is a skill. Why not take the time to hone the lecture to make it as clear as it can be? As a homeschooler, I certainly enjoy being able to access the lectures of some excellent teachers through open courseware and The Teaching Company, etc. I feel I'm getting the best of the best, right in the comfort of my home.

 

On the other hand, I'm not sure how it actually works in practice. A + B + C still have to add up to a certain, limited amount of time. In elementary, particularly, A should be a very small proportion of that total. Actually, in elementary I'd prefer that students not have ANY school responsibilities to take home. At least with a flipped classroom model, the time spent on homework would be explicitly limited by the length of the video.

 

Also, I'm not sure that the premise I expressed at the beginning of my post is correct. Surely the best teaching is when A and B happen in concert, not separate from each other. I thought even years ago that lecture teaching was supposed to be dying out, particularly in the pre-college setting.

[Snickerdoodle]

As a parent of a fast math learner, all I can say is that this method means the fast learner does the work at home and the class becomes study hall. The big plus is that the info needed can be guaranteed to be in the canned version, while the live teacher may leave out necessary info. While the teacher circulates, the fast learner works on homework or reading for another class. The math class never moves to abstract, theoretical proof type work that would engage the student as well as prepare the student for a STEM degree.

 

Aside from the underperforming teacher issue, the true problem is that low expectations in math are acceptable. See Appendix A of Common Core Math Standards for where the politicians want to take the nation, in the name of full inclusion.

 

 

http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/05/28/2096068/schools-telling-elementary-students.html

[elegantlion]

Yeah, they can keep dreaming. It won't work. That is how *college* is supposed to work - yet not even the college students manage to do the assigned reading before coming to class.

 

We watched How to be Superstar student from TTC and they addressed this as the way colleges are supposed to operate.

 

I see the downfall to this method in the younger age from my own child.

 

Let's assume that teaching a new concept has three components to it:

 

A -- the teacher presents the topic in a lecture form

B -- the student asks questions to clarify his understanding

C -- the student applies the new knowledge to some exercises or applications

 

In a traditional classroom, components A and B take place in the classroom while component C takes place primarily at home. In the flipped classroom, components B and C take place in the classroom while component A takes place at home.

 

It's meant to address the fact that ideally a student would have a knowledgeable teacher or tutor during both component B and C. If a student struggles with the homework (part C) and does not have a parent or tutor who can actually help him, then that time may be a complete waste.

 

Technology has made it possible for part A to happen at home. I like some things about this idea. Lecturing is a skill. Why not take the time to hone the lecture to make it as clear as it can be? As a homeschooler, I certainly enjoy being able to access the lectures of some excellent teachers through open courseware and The Teaching Company, etc. I feel I'm getting the best of the best, right in the comfort of my home.

 

On the other hand, I'm not sure how it actually works in practice. A + B + C still have to add up to a certain, limited amount of time. In elementary, particularly, A should be a very small proportion of that total. Actually, in elementary I'd prefer that students not have ANY school responsibilities to take home. At least with a flipped classroom model, the time spent on homework would be explicitly limited by the length of the video.

 

Also, I'm not sure that the premise I expressed at the beginning of my post is correct. Surely the best teaching is when A and B happen in concert, not separate from each other. I thought even years ago that lecture teaching was supposed to be dying out, particularly in the pre-college setting.

 

I like your breakdown. My concern is you have a student like mine who will read the material, observe the conversation in class and have little to no input. It's taken me two years to get beyond the "I don't know" and "I don't remember" or the blank stare when I assign outside reading and discussion time in class.

 

I think the good students who have a cursory understanding and willingness to learn could flourish in a model like this. Students who are only marginally interested, skim material, and just show up and look interested will fall through the cracks, probably getting As and being told they are brilliant all the while. :tongue_smilie:

 

With large classrooms I wonder how they will assess the less vocal students. Unfortunately some are better at the written word than speaking.

 

I think for a model like this to work you need smaller class sizes and that doesn't seem to be happening in any public setting.

[scrappyhappymama]

It's so funny. I read this thread yesterday, and had never previously heard of "flipping" classrooms.

 

Now this morning, I read this article about Khan Academy and guess what's happening in some classrooms?

 

"Last year, a number of schools began "flipping" their classrooms, having students study Khan videos by night and do homework with teachers by day.In the process, Khan has fueled the debate over tech's growing influence on education while garnering the support of powerful friends."

 

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/story/2012-05-30/sal-khan-profile-khan-academy/55270348/1

 

So, rather than teachers creating their own podcasts for students, some are using the Khan videos to the same purpose. Interesting!

[eloquacious]

It doesn't sound any different than telling students to read the text prior to class so they are prepared with questions and basic info during class time.

 

 

That is precisely what I was thinking! We always had to read the text in advance...whether or not we did it was another matters. With certain systems, if you do a podcast (or better yet, videocast) then you would know if the student watched it (or at least had it running), and you can theoretically go above and beyond the text. Of course, you sacrifice the benefits students gain from READING the text...

[*Michelle*]

That's another thing I don't understand. Is the podcast supposed to increase participation because it's something new and shiny? How much time does it take for the teacher to create a nightly podcast? What about the kids without internet access? I saw in one of the articles that those kids would have the "opportunity" to watch the podcast... at school. Uh, they could watch the teacher at school, too.

 

It just seems like another needless layer of complexity to me.

[*Michelle*]

Okay, HERE's an example of a "flipped" classroom that I can actually see working. This teacher sounds great.