If your state stipulates how many hours a school day must be...

[cottonmama]

... how many hours are required, and do you feel like that amount is burdensome?

[Karen in CO]

My state allows us to count total days or total hours. If you count days, the day is 4 hours long. It is pretty easy to comply.

[MrsBear]

In Missouri the regulation is total hours of instruction in a school year, defined as July 1 to June 30 - 1000 hours.

 

The regulations include the minimum instruction required in the core subjects (reading, LA, science, math and social studies) - 600 hours; and the remaining 400 may be electives or additional hours in the core subjects.

 

Of the 600 needed for core subjects, 400 have to be done in the homeschool location, the remaining 200 can be anywhere.

 

Since reporting requirements do not begin until your child is 7 at the start of a school year, it hasn't been burdensome for K-1-2 since DS isn't technically under the scope of the regulation until we start 3rd this year in July. However, if he'd been enrolled in school before and I pulled him out, the regs would have applied since he'd already attended pubic school - since he didn't, I will need to keep records starting next school year.

 

We do school year round so that we don't have to do a longer day within a 180-day schedule....if we did a 180-day school year, he'd need to do 5.5-hours each day to meet the 1000 hour requirement. So instead, we do year round and our days vary - sometimes as little as an hour, sometimes as much as four-five hours.....we're usually done with hours in early May each year, as we are again this year, and are now on a break for a couple of week.

[elegantlion]

We live in a state that requires hours per year. As we head towards high school, they aren't so bad. It's nitpicky and annoying, but not a big issue. In first grade it was a little more difficult. They have the same requirement in hours for first graders and high school, so we had to be more creative in those early years.

 

We don't have to show our hours to anyone and we have no state testing, and I'd choose hours over testing.

 

They don't even really make sense. In our state they say you can count 100 hours of a subject as a credit. To graduate high school you need a minimum of 24 credits, that's 6 per year. If you follow the high school requirement that's only 600 hours per year. The state requirement is 1000 hours (600 core, 400 non-core). So I consider the whole thing red tape.

[meggie]

Our state requires 810 hours for first grade, 990 for all the others. If you count the 180 days, it's 4.5 hours/day for first grade, 5.5 for the others. For upper grades, it seems reasonable. For first and second, it seems like a lot. However, I'm pretty sure you can count any type of learning toward it, so playing outside can be PE, helping me cook can be home ec. It doesn't have to be formal seat work to count.

 

As Pigby is only in Kindergarten, which isn't required, I don't know how hard it is to meet. Some times I think it'll be pretty easy, he'll easily spend 40 minutes on math, 20 on spelling, 20 on writing. Then he loves science, which is mostly reading books and doing lapbooks. Then we can go on a 30 minute walk, etc. However, it always sounds nice in my head. We have yet to actually accomplish everything in one day.

[happymomofboys]

Our requirements are 5 hours per day, 180 days per year, 900 hours per year in grades 1-6.

 

I don't find it burdensome at all. My 4th grader easily meets that requirement every day. However, children are learning all the time. Even when we aren't doing book work, the kids are still exploring and learning through play. We just consider any hours the kids aren't doing assigned work as unschooling hours.

 

To meet the requirement, we make sure to include unschooling types of activities in addition to our regular curriculum on our individualized home instruction plan which we must submit at the beginning of the school year. Then we simply write 225+ hours completed on our quarterly reports along with a description of the materials covered and a grade for each required class. If the superintendent ever asked for attendance (which she never has), I would print off a calendar and write "absences marked with an X" at the top with nothing marked out. How can you be absent from homeschool? :001_huh:

[elegantlion]

Since reporting requirements do not begin until your child is 7 at the start of a school year, it hasn't been burdensome for K-1-2 since DS isn't technically under the scope of the regulation until we start 3rd this year in July. However, if he'd been enrolled in school before and I pulled him out, the regs would have applied since he'd already attended pubic school - since he didn't, I will need to keep records starting next school year.

 

We do school year round so that we don't have to do a longer day within a 180-day schedule....if we did a 180-day school year, he'd need to do 5.5-hours each day to meet the 1000 hour requirement. So instead, we do year round and our days vary - sometimes as little as an hour, sometimes as much as four-five hours.....we're usually done with hours in early May each year, as we are again this year, and are now on a break for a couple of week.

 

We never schooled year round, but I keep track of activities in the summer and used those for the log. He's always accumulated a lot of non-core in the summer. So we never reached 5 hours a day in elementary school.

[6packofun]

I agree that it's unrealistic for younger grades in the homeschooling environment. Upper grades, it works out just fine because we need to count credit hours.

 

Here in Ohio, I'm pretty sure that the state code says the "equivalent" of 800 hours (or 900, can't remember) and because of that we are not required to give an actual attendance log with our paperwork. I'm looking for accomplishment and mastery, not "putting in our time."

[6packofun]

That's interesting... (and weird)!

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

We are supposed to provide 900 hours of instruction per year. If I divided that by 36 (the number of weeks public school is in session, and the number of weeks for which I make lesson plans), it's 25 hours a week. We do 3-4 hours of school work at home each weekday. In addition, they have outside activities like homeschool theatre class, chess club, book club, Swim & Gym, etc. that I count as school hours. We also do history and math review all through the summer, so we end up with more than the 900 hours per year.

[LillyMama]

If a family is under the notification part of the law, it reads 172 days, 4 hours a day. That doesn't mean 4 hours sitting in a chair, so most folks have little problem with it.

 

In Colorado, as well, and we hit that target pretty easily with Kindergartners. I know people who count cooking dinner and going to the park (as life skills and PE, respectively) but I found we didn't need to do so.

[Bang!Zoom!]

I'm looking for accomplishment and mastery, not "putting in our time."

 

This.

 

Early in the year, I was super detailed about logging time, and it was unreal the one on one burden of sticking to a clock. It really wasn't realistic for us, and I gradually loosened up from sticking to a schedule time wise and learned to run with "thing of the day." Some days, she blows the weekly requirement of time in one day on a subject. I've seen things at the far end like 9 hours straight immersed and learning non stop in math. I'd just throw crumbs in her mouth and stick a straw under her chin now and then and let her run...lol (Exaggerating on the food issue, but you get the point)

 

It was also very interesting to note that while on one side I was feeling the pressure of the "chart" requirements, when I sat in on class for her, I'd sit in the back and use my phone to record actual minutes of instruction. I'm not kidding when I say in one hours time I recorded once 2.5 minutes of actual instruction to the group.

 

There were scads of interruptions and issues. It was NOT due to teacher quality either. It was the group.

 

So I took a look at what we actually get done and compare that to other situations of instruction and relaxed my mindset completely.

 

I don't give a hoot about those charts like I did at the beginning. We get far far more done than the reality of some settings. There are some settings where things DO get done in a group on a subject, and sometimes not.

 

I think the trick is to be aware of when it's not working, and when it is.

[ravinlunachick]

Our state gives 3 different options for homeschooling. Under the one I'm using, we only have to have 180 days of attendance (and certain mandatory subjects). The first option requires 180 days AND 4.5hrs/day minimum.

[Kim in Appalachia]

I have never kept track of hours. I'm not really good at keeping track of days either. We get through all of our books/curriculum and then we are done.

[alpidarkomama]

I figure their little minds are learning from the moment they wake until they go to sleep, so we do 14 hrs/day, 365 days/year. So, let's see... We finish our required 180 4-hour learning slots in, er, 8 weeks. An exaggeration, of course, but really whether it's formal or informal, they're learning! So, no, I don't find it burdensome in the least.

[regentrude]

In Missouri the regulation is total hours of instruction in a school year, defined as July 1 to June 30 - 1000 hours.

...

Since reporting requirements do not begin until your child is 7 at the start of a school year, it hasn't been burdensome for K-1-2 since DS isn't technically under the scope of the regulation until we start 3rd this year in July.

 

In MO, there are no reporting requirements at all. You must comply with the law and keep records, but you are not required to report to anybody, unless investigated.

[LillyMama]

This.

 

It was also very interesting to note that while on one side I was feeling the pressure of the "chart" requirements, when I sat in on class for her, I'd sit in the back and use my phone to record actual minutes of instruction. I'm not kidding when I say in one hours time I recorded once 2.5 minutes of actual instruction to the group.

 

There were scads of interruptions and issues. It was NOT due to teacher quality either. It was the group.

 

So I took a look at what we actually get done and compare that to other situations of instruction and relaxed my mindset completely..

 

:iagree:

 

I look at assignments and think about a logical amount of time it should take a child. I give our daily phonics work, for example, 20 minutes. My sister is PS teacher and she says each page would take her class 30-45 minutes, what with taking out supplies, talking about it, putting it away... So I put the lesson into HST+ as 20 minutes, and if we finish it in 10, I check it off without correcting the time. So, technically, I give them credit for doing 20 minutes of work when they only did 10. I've gone back and forth with myself to decide if this is "cheating." I've reconciled this by making sure we "do" school for the four hours we've set aside. So I do a LOT more science and history reading than I usually end up planning for, and marking those times in accurately. This means we end up logging 6+ hours of work in the spreadsheet when 4-5 hours of our actual time are actually used. I figure if anyone came calling and questioning (not likely) it wouldn't be hard to adjust how I keep track. So we're still used to doing 4 hours of school, as required, but not being punished for being more efficient with our time.

[Pamela H in Texas]

My state doesn't name hours for homeschoolers. However, we were part of the virtual academy and they did. I don't think it is necessarily burdensome because SO much can count as schooling. We simply kept a journal of times (start/end) and then I recorded it into the computer from there.

 

I *do* think that it is ridiculous for the state to make VA'ers outline 6 hours per day when there is no way that public school'd kids are getting anywhere close to that much formal learning. For example, the kids do educational stations while the teacher does reading groups but that work isn't checked or corrected. It is often well beyond or below what the students are capable of, just a range of educational stuff, busy work, mostly.

 

I also think it is problematic to claim hours based on what is actually done because two students are likely to take significantly different amounts of time to do the same work. My son worked language arts a lot more than most kids because he found it so challenging. My daughter would have zipped right through that work. She gets 10 minutes and he gets 40? That just doesn't seem right to me.

[LostSurprise]

I believe Wisconsin is 850hrs/180 days and certain core subjects (reading, language, math, science, health, etc).

 

I've never found it a burden. They don't tie a certain number of hours per subject. A great number of things could be considered homeschool, so its never occurred to me to worry about it. Public schools count recess, lunch, waiting in line, art, music, field trips, and PE in their day.

 

We keep a simple chart of school days and I put an X on the chart for present and schooling and a + for sick or not schooling.

[AndyJoy]

I look at assignments and think about a logical amount of time it should take a child. I give our daily phonics work, for example, 20 minutes. My sister is PS teacher and she says each page would take her class 30-45 minutes, what with taking out supplies, talking about it, putting it away... So I put the lesson into HST+ as 20 minutes, and if we finish it in 10, I check it off without correcting the time. So, technically, I give them credit for doing 20 minutes of work when they only did 10. I've gone back and forth with myself to decide if this is "cheating." I've reconciled this by making sure we "do" school for the four hours we've set aside. So I do a LOT more science and history reading than I usually end up planning for, and marking those times in accurately. This means we end up logging 6+ hours of work in the spreadsheet when 4-5 hours of our actual time are actually used. I figure if anyone came calling and questioning (not likely) it wouldn't be hard to adjust how I keep track. So we're still used to doing 4 hours of school, as required, but not being punished for being more efficient with our time.

 

This seems totally reasonable. When I was in school, most teachers would teach for a small portion of the hour, then we would do our work while she walked around and helped. If you finished early, you could read or play a game. I was not challenged and thus was usually done w/work that was supposed to take 30+ minutes in just 10 minutes. In fact, my 6th grade math teacher would give me my assignment secretly before class so I could work on it in the back of the room while she taught the class. I just had to promise to wait to turn it in until a few others were done so no one would find out. That way I got in more free-reading and didn't have to be bored as long. I wasn't forced to stay after school to get in my proper instructional hours.:D

[Chris in VA]

Wow. I had no idea how great I have it in VA! :001_smile:

[FO4UR]

In MO, there are no reporting requirements at all. You must comply with the law and keep records, but you are not required to report to anybody, unless investigated.

 

 

What are the chances of being investigated? And, who has the authority to investigate? :bigear: (I think, b/c of certain circumstances, that I might have a higher chance of needing to know this. I'm in MO.)

 

 

 

 

I have been making plans for next year (starting in July). I am plotting assignments and writing down how much time it takes to complete the assignment on average (grammar lesson-20min, etc...). Then I'll keep the paper trail of assignments (the grammar worksheet, etc). Is this enough to satisfy an investigator?

 

 

Our time spent exceeds the 1000 hours/600 core hours.

 

 

I just don't see the point in journaling every.single.minute.of.our.life.:001_huh: I know other HS moms do this...we go to the backyard and chase bugs...gotta jot that down as science...23.5 minutes.:svengo:

[Rebel Yell]

I figure their little minds are learning from the moment they wake until they go to sleep, so we do 14 hrs/day, 365 days/year. So, let's see... We finish our required 180 4-hour learning slots in, er, 8 weeks. An exaggeration, of course, but really whether it's formal or informal, they're learning! So, no, I don't find it burdensome in the least.

:iagree:

 

In my state, it is 180 days OR 900 hours/990 for 7th-12th. Unless there are certain circumstances, we don't report until age 8. And odd quirk of the law does not specifically say that the 180 days have to be 5 or 5.5 hours long. We also don't have to turn in anything proving that we did the hours or days. Bizarre, vague, & contradictory laws here.

 

I have never had trouble meeting this, although I have also never actually kept meticulous records. I also have the freedom to count pretty much everything- a good church service can be music & history! Diamond has hundreds of PE hours with dance alone. We certainly do finish all of our basic courses for the year, but I think if I counted every single educational moment it would be at least 10-15 hours/day. Not every minute has to be the child at a desk with me giving direct instruction.

[Lolly]

We have the 4 hours which they have no way to keep track of. Attendance is all that is kept. We do not have to give a breakdown of the day. Honestly though, I could make every waking hour into schooltime very easily. We are always learning!:D In fact, I could probably qualify sleeping time as educational. Schools do have naptime figured in for K here... Plus, if we talk about and interpret their dreams...gotta hit some kind of science in there...:lol:

[elegantlion]

What are the chances of being investigated? And, who has the authority to investigate? :bigear: (I think, b/c of certain circumstances, that I might have a higher chance of needing to know this. I'm in MO.)

 

Our time spent exceeds the 1000 hours/600 core hours.

 

 

I just don't see the point in journaling every.single.minute.of.our.life.:001_huh: I know other HS moms do this...we go to the backyard and chase bugs...gotta jot that down as science...23.5 minutes.:svengo:

 

Granted I don't know the entire state, but I've never heard of anyone being investigated. We've homeschooled for eight years.

 

When ds was younger I'd just mentally keep track of little off things we did. The first year we homeschooled I really wanted to know how many hours we put into first grade. I'm a tad anal and it seemed a big disingenuous to put 1 hour per subject as some of my friends were. First grade didn't take 7 hours, kwim. :tongue_smilie:

 

Anyway I counted in 15 minute increments. If spelling took 12 minutes, it was counted as .25. If it took 23.5 minutes it was .5. That allowed my rule following self (*I* didn't want to be the test case for hours) to feel good and allow some leeway, plus it was easier to add up on a calculator.

 

If he watched history channel is was an hour. Swimming with friends for 38 minutes or thereabouts .75 of PE.

 

Some people are okay with counting all day as school, some count each subject as an hour and just count the academic day. I knew where my comfort level was. I know what the actual law says, not what some sites list it as. The school year runs from July 1 to June 30. While we don't homeschool all year, I do keep track in the summer. This year we easily exceeded. I won't count anything else until July 1 when the new year begins.

 

The law says 1,000 hours. It doesn't say 1,000 what you think a classroom does hour. So I honor that law because I'd rather have that then annual testing or portfolio review. It also doesn't define what I can count as non-core or how I classify the core, so sometimes baking cookies counted as science- it's chemistry you know. :D

 

At the high school level it's almost a non-issue. I want to track hours anyway for credits. School still doesn't take 7 hours a day though.

[chepyl]

Oklahoma says 1080 hours. They just changed from 180 days a few years ago so they can make up show days by adding 15 minutes to the stary of the day and 15 to the end for a few weeks, rather than make up full days. (How that adds useable instruction time has me puzzled. Each class is 5 minutes longer.)

 

We don't have any reporting requirements, so I his keep our workbooks and track days. We do some school year round, history this summer, so of I had to report hours for an investigation, I would end up with enough.

[MrsBear]

In MO, there are no reporting requirements at all. You must comply with the law and keep records, but you are not required to report to anybody, unless investigated.

 

You're right.....except if your child has been enrolled at any point before 7, then you need to notify intent to homeschool (which I didn't and don't need to do since DS was never enrolled) to withdraw your child. But, no, we don't report - we just keep records if we're under investigation for some reason and even then, only a prosecutor can demand the records.

[MrsBear]

What are the chances of being investigated? And, who has the authority to investigate? :bigear: (I think, b/c of certain circumstances, that I might have a higher chance of needing to know this. I'm in MO.)

 

Only a prosecutor can demand your records. You can be investigated by other agencies, but only the prosecutor's office can actually demand to see your records.

 

 

I have been making plans for next year (starting in July). I am plotting assignments and writing down how much time it takes to complete the assignment on average (grammar lesson-20min, etc...). Then I'll keep the paper trail of assignments (the grammar worksheet, etc). Is this enough to satisfy an investigator?

 

I keep a record book - I use a date book, a July-June collegiate academic planner by At-a-Glance - and each day record in it the time we spent on each subject. That's all that is in there....it meets the regulation to keep track of hours.

 

In addition I have a 4" work binder - in that I place DS's worksheets and other things he's done. It's divided by subject and throughout the year I'll cull out things from earlier in the year, but leave some things that "show progress" in each subject. In the back, in the last section, is a copy of each week's daily schedule with what we did and what books were read. Together that meets the requirements to show progress and track what was done. For some things I just take a picture and add it to the book - things like science projects, hands-on-math type things, history projects, etc. - since that shows he did it when there is no paper things done.

 

 

Our time spent exceeds the 1000 hours/600 core hours.

 

I don't think 1000 hours is difficult to meet - we usually exceed the 600 on core and go well above the 400 for electives by May.

 

 

I just don't see the point in journaling every.single.minute.of.our.life.:001_huh: I know other HS moms do this...we go to the backyard and chase bugs...gotta jot that down as science...23.5 minutes.:svengo:

 

LOL - nope, not here either!

[MrsBear]

Granted I don't know the entire state, but I've never heard of anyone being investigated. We've homeschooled for eight years.

 

When ds was younger I'd just mentally keep track of little off things we did. The first year we homeschooled I really wanted to know how many hours we put into first grade. I'm a tad anal and it seemed a big disingenuous to put 1 hour per subject as some of my friends were. First grade didn't take 7 hours, kwim. :tongue_smilie:

 

Anyway I counted in 15 minute increments. If spelling took 12 minutes, it was counted as .25. If it took 23.5 minutes it was .5. That allowed my rule following self (*I* didn't want to be the test case for hours) to feel good and allow some leeway, plus it was easier to add up on a calculator.

 

If he watched history channel is was an hour. Swimming with friends for 38 minutes or thereabouts .75 of PE.

 

Some people are okay with counting all day as school, some count each subject as an hour and just count the academic day. I knew where my comfort level was. I know what the actual law says, not what some sites list it as. The school year runs from July 1 to June 30. While we don't homeschool all year, I do keep track in the summer. This year we easily exceeded. I won't count anything else until July 1 when the new year begins.

 

The law says 1,000 hours. It doesn't say 1,000 what you think a classroom does hour. So I honor that law because I'd rather have that then annual testing or portfolio review. It also doesn't define what I can count as non-core or how I classify the core, so sometimes baking cookies counted as science- it's chemistry you know. :D

 

At the high school level it's almost a non-issue. I want to track hours anyway for credits. School still doesn't take 7 hours a day though.

 

I track in a similar way - it is how the school's do it too!

 

If we've planned 30-min for reading and DS clocks 25-min, it's 0.50 in my log......if he only does 17-min, it's 0.25 in my log. I think it balances at the end of the year, the rounding up and down. I don't push the envelope though - I do know some who schedule an hour for things that really are only going to take 15-min and call it an hour.....I just don't feel right about that. If something takes 15-min, it takes 15-min and it's 0.25.

[ereks mom]

I'm in GA, and the law here says, "The school year must include the equivalent of 180 days of at least 4-1/2 hours of instruction per day unless the child is physically unable to comply with this requirement." 180 days x 4.5 hours = 810 hours

 

No one has ever officially defined "the equivalent of", and I, personally, know of no one ever having been called into question on this. The local official whose job includes the prosecution of truancy cases recently told me that no homeschooler in our jurisdiction has been taken to court for non-compliance in the last 20 years; the only truancy cases locally have involved parents of children enrolled in the public school system.

[Soror]

This was my first year recording and at the beginning I was meticulous with recording exact times of everything but I dropped it to be honest. I have kept track of what we done and we improved one grade level plus in everything and we've completed our core curriculums that we're all at or above grade level, except for writing, which is a struggle. I don't think young elementary kids need 5.5(or 3.5 hrs for that matter) of seat work or structured work period in order to progress. So, I'm not keeping track of ds and all the times he is reading now or the 3 hrs we spent doing read-alouds Sat, or family gardening time etc.

 

My records will be rather generic spreading out the time appropriately and that is that.

[MrsBear]

This was my first year recording and at the beginning I was meticulous with recording exact times of everything but I dropped it to be honest. I have kept track of what we done and we improved one grade level plus in everything and we've completed our core curriculums that we're all at or above grade level, except for writing, which is a struggle. I don't think young elementary kids need 5.5(or 3.5 hrs for that matter) of seat work or structured work period in order to progress. So, I'm not keeping track of ds and all the times he is reading now or the 3 hrs we spent doing read-alouds Sat, or family gardening time etc.

 

My records will be rather generic spreading out the time appropriately and that is that.

 

I don't think the hours requirements are intended to be seatwork hours, just instructional-learning hours.....so I don't think you're doing anything wrong recording time spent with read alouds, or even gardening with him.

 

If DS and I decide to do something, like bake cookies one day, I will count that as either home-ec or math, depending on what he did to help....if he did all the measuring of ingredients, mixing and laying out the cookies by weight on the sheet, I'll count it as math since it really is weights and measures and part of his scope this year and we definitely would be having a discussion along the way about the math aspects......if he just helped out and we had some discussion about something in there, it'd be home-ec if there wasn't something directly related to what's in his scope for the year because home-ec is an elective and a reasonable time accounting for the activity because he is learning something, even if it's not math!

 

This year when DS got hooked on sewing and needlepoint, I counted the time he did those, voluntarily on his part, as home-ec too because schools to have an elective for home-ec and learn things like sewing and cooking in those classes, and for DS, learning how to do it did require direct instruction too.

[Dealea86]

I'm in GA, and the law here says, "The school year must include the equivalent of 180 days of at least 4-1/2 hours of instruction per day unless the child is physically unable to comply with this requirement." 180 days x 4.5 hours = 810 hours

 

No one has ever officially defined "the equivalent of", and I, personally, know of no one ever having been called into question on this. The local official whose job includes the prosecution of truancy cases recently told me that no homeschooler in our jurisdiction has been taken to court for non-compliance in the last 20 years; the only truancy cases locally have involved parents of children enrolled in the public school system.

 

The GA law says, "The home study program must provide instruction each 12 months to home study students equivalent to 180 school days of

education with each school day consisting of at least four and one-half school hours." HSLDA's interpretation of that is that each school day must consist of 4.5 hours, not that it has to equal 810 hours a year.

 

Now if GA isn't enforcing that, all the better. But my understanding is that the actual law dictates at least 4.5 hours for each day you count towards the 180.

 

Like others have said, that rule should be easy for older children, but it probably requires a lot of stretching and fudging for a first grader - that is, counting things the people who wrote the law probably don't consider 'education' (I'm not knocking those things as having educational value, just saying that it's most likely not what the lawmakers had in mind).

 

My daughter is just 3 years old, so I'm not there yet. But I have to admit that the 4.5 hour/day requirement seems to me to be the most daunting part of homeschooling in the early years. I'm glad to see that it doesn't seem to phase others. I'm a bit of a stickler for the rules, so I can't see myself counting 30 minutes for reading when we only did 15 minutes, or counting a trip to the grocery store as math... but maybe all that will change when the time comes. I'm certainly no expert. :)

[MrsBear]

 

I'm a bit of a stickler for the rules, so I can't see myself counting 30 minutes for reading when we only did 15 minutes, or counting a trip to the grocery store as math... but maybe all that will change when the time comes. I'm certainly no expert. :)

 

Those I know who count 30-min of reading even when 15-min was all that was done say it's because that's the scheduled time, like in schools, and that if it is done faster, it's still a 30-min scheduled time that the child finished faster and they'd be sitting at their desk waiting for the other kids to finish. To me, that doesn't pass the smell test.....I'll round up and down to nearest 15-min increment, so if DS finishes his math, that I thought would take 30-min in 17-min, it's 0.25, not 0.50.

 

Math at the grocery store?

 

This year we really did do math at the grocery store - DS had to bring pencil and paper and keep track of the total was we shopped for 15 items on our list, with his total being the subtotal (before tax) on the transaction. Would you consider that a fudge, or really time spent doing math?

 

Another time I gave DS the sale circular and had him make a list of 10 items to buy, he then had to add it all up and figure out the tax (based on our sales tax rate), go in the store, find the items on his list, and make the purchase with the money he figured he'd need to complete the transaction. Would you consider that a fudge on time recording, or really time spent doing math?

 

The last grocery store thing we did was that DS had to figure out the cost of 10 items, less coupons, on paper while we were shopping. Fudging or real math?

 

I considered all three to be really math.

[Jenny in Atl]

The GA law says, "The home study program must provide instruction each 12 months to home study students equivalent to 180 school days of

education with each school day consisting of at least four and one-half school hours." HSLDA's interpretation of that is that each school day must consist of 4.5 hours, not that it has to equal 810 hours a year.

 

Now if GA isn't enforcing that, all the better. But my understanding is that the actual law dictates at least 4.5 hours for each day you count towards the 180.

 

Like others have said, that rule should be easy for older children, but it probably requires a lot of stretching and fudging for a first grader - that is, counting things the people who wrote the law probably don't consider 'education' (I'm not knocking those things as having educational value, just saying that it's most likely not what the lawmakers had in mind).

 

My daughter is just 3 years old, so I'm not there yet. But I have to admit that the 4.5 hour/day requirement seems to me to be the most daunting part of homeschooling in the early years. I'm glad to see that it doesn't seem to phase others. I'm a bit of a stickler for the rules, so I can't see myself counting 30 minutes for reading when we only did 15 minutes, or counting a trip to the grocery store as math... but maybe all that will change when the time comes. I'm certainly no expert. :)

 

Not only is GA not counting each hour with baited breath, but starting next year you will be sending your attendance records not to the local district, but to the state, and only once a year, not at the end of each month.

 

I've homeschooled in GA for 10 years, and find the regulations here a breeze, well not as breezy as TX, but really easy to follow. You will be surprised at how tiny 4.5 hrs really is, and you are the one who decides what science is or math, for example. Going to Whole Foods and learning to count the veggies & fruits, more than passes for pre-K math. The audio book you listen to, while driving about town, can count as lit. Science is exploring in the backyard, planting flowers or baking a cake. Visiting local historic spots can incorporate all the subjects, and easily take more than 4.5 hours. The more you free yourself to see all the different learning opportunities, the more you will stop worrying about some silly 4.5 hr regulation, that really means nothing. In reality you already educate your child more than 4.5 hours a day.

[The Girls' Mom]

Our state requires 4 hours a day/180 days a year.

 

Frankly, I don't count. The public school calendar for this year only has 177 days in which the kids are actually at school. This doesn't account for field trips, "fun days" like field day, sick kids, etc. Nor does it account for hours lost on things like pep rallies, various programs, and general wasted time.

 

I give my kids assignments each day, spaced out so that we can finish that years curriculum within the same time frame the public schools have. Whether they get their work finished in 1 hour or 6 hours doesn't matter to me. I call that a day done, box checked.

[mamaraby]

I believe Wisconsin is 850hrs/180 days and certain core subjects (reading, language, math, science, health, etc).

 

It's actually 875 hours (which in the public schools is 175 days). There is no number of days requirement in WI.

 

ETA: We school year round which in some ways makes things easier. We were done early last week with our hours, but realistically we probably put in more than that. I'm not always all that great about recording each and every little thing.

Edited May 17, 2012 by mamaraby

[Soror]

Those I know who count 30-min of reading even when 15-min was all that was done say it's because that's the scheduled time, like in schools, and that if it is done faster, it's still a 30-min scheduled time that the child finished faster and they'd be sitting at their desk waiting for the other kids to finish. To me, that doesn't pass the smell test.....I'll round up and down to nearest 15-min increment, so if DS finishes his math, that I thought would take 30-min in 17-min, it's 0.25, not 0.50.

 

Math at the grocery store?

 

This year we really did do math at the grocery store - DS had to bring pencil and paper and keep track of the total was we shopped for 15 items on our list, with his total being the subtotal (before tax) on the transaction. Would you consider that a fudge, or really time spent doing math?

 

Another time I gave DS the sale circular and had him make a list of 10 items to buy, he then had to add it all up and figure out the tax (based on our sales tax rate), go in the store, find the items on his list, and make the purchase with the money he figured he'd need to complete the transaction. Would you consider that a fudge on time recording, or really time spent doing math?

 

The last grocery store thing we did was that DS had to figure out the cost of 10 items, less coupons, on paper while we were shopping. Fudging or real math?

 

I considered all three to be really math.

We've done similar things here as well with shopping at the store. Then I make him tell me how much change he will receive back if he doesn't have the exact amount:) I tell ds that he needs to be able to figure that so if the cashier doesn't give him the right amount then he will know. If you don't know your math you can easily get ripped off (rather purposely or not).

 

I agree though that it is not what the lawmakers have in mind but as long as we are making grade level progress I'm not concerned. There are some that push it more than I would though for sure. However, as Mrs. Bear :auto: said in PS there are always kids that are faster or slower. I won't penalize my child for being efficient. I'm not going to pile up more work on my 1st grader just because it is infinitely more efficient doing school one on one. The idea is absurd to me. The idea is that I am to give my child an education, the hours are just the way they've chosen to quantify it in our state and by no means is it the definitive way or even a good way imo.:auto::bigear: (sorry for the smilies ds is *helping* me)

[Dealea86]

Not only is GA not counting each hour with baited breath, but starting next year you will be sending your attendance records not to the local district, but to the state, and only once a year, not at the end of each month.

 

And I'm very happy about that change! :D

 

I guess my point is that the 4.5 hour law is on the books, and the State could choose to enforce it at any time. Instead of being creative with the numbers or counting semi-educational activities, I'd rather follow the law as written and work towards getting the regulation changed completely. But as I said before, I'm kind of a stickler for rules. :tongue_smilie:

 

Of course, I would count an hour-long Korean cartoon as foreign language without batting an eye, and I think thirty minutes playing outside passes for PE and/or science, so perhaps I'm not as much of a stickler as I'm making myself out to be. ;)

[Mommyfaithe]

... how many hours are required, and do you feel like that amount is burdensome?

 

We are required 990 hours for high school and 900 for elementary. It is not burdensome because every hour I am with my kids is an educational hour:D. I just keep track of days and the work we covered...we always fulfill more hours than is ever required.

[Parrothead]

When we lived in Montana I had to count hours. I thought it was ridiculous. I had one student in K then 1st and was supposed to get 720 hours of school. K and 1st lasted 1.5 hours tops per day. I just fudged the forms.

[justasque]

... how many hours are required, and do you feel like that amount is burdensome?

 

PA: 180 days, OR 900 (1st-6th)/990 (7th-9th) hours. No hourly requirement if you count days, no day requirement if you count hours.

 

Scientifically speaking, days/hours of instruction is a pretty weak assessment tool for a homeschooling child. Our lives aren't neatly divided between school and not-school. It's very artificial to try to make that distinction.

 

It's not burdensome for me, because we are pretty active people and I don't in the least stress over it. I was more documentation-oriented when I started, but after many years doing this, I don't really try to keep detailed records. It drives me nuts to use a seriously flawed assessment tool, and I'd rather spend my time on other things.

 

One of my kids is easily over 600 hours a year for her sport interest alone. We go on all kinds of outings, do creative activities, read, write, listen to audio books, sing, dance, make stuff, volunteer. And we do some traditional textbook work. It's all good. It all contributes to the child's education. I consider it all to be part of our homeschooling program.

 

If my homeschooling is challenged, someone need only look at a sample of my children's recent schoolwork or their standardized test scores to see that they are decently educated students. I don't fear the school district.

 

Here's my take on it for PA:

http://home.comcast.net/~askpauline/hs/homeschooldayshours.html

[Soror]

 

Scientifically speaking, days/hours of instruction is a pretty weak assessment tool for a homeschooling child. Our lives aren't neatly divided between school and not-school. It's very artificial to try to make that distinction.

 

It's not burdensome for me, because we are pretty active people and I don't in the least stress over it. I was more documentation-oriented when I started, but after many years doing this, I don't really try to keep detailed records. It drives me nuts to use a seriously flawed assessment tool, and I'd rather spend my time on other things.

 

 

You said what I was thinking much better. It is ridiculous as the hrs of instruction has little bearing on the actual amount of education taking place. It is also ridiculous that a 1st grader and 12th grader are required the same amount of time.

 

I also don't understand how doing real life Math in the store is pseudo education. How warped is our world whenever real world application is inferior to reading about it in a book. I guess if I wrote out the problem and we did it at home it some how makes it education.

Edited May 17, 2012 by soror

[regentrude]

What are the chances of being investigated? And, who has the authority to investigate?

 

I know of one woman in our local group who has been investigated because her neighbor turned her in for 'educational neglect". I know of nobody else.

 

I do keep records of our instruction time using an excel spreadsheet that does the calculations for me and find it very easy and not a burden at all. My kids like to see what they have done, so the records serve a twofold purpose.

[justasque]

The GA law says, "The home study program must provide instruction each 12 months to home study students equivalent to 180 school days of education with each school day consisting of at least four and one-half school hours."

HSLDA's interpretation of that is that each school day must consist of 4.5 hours, not that it has to equal 810 hours a year.

...

I'm a bit of a stickler for the rules, so I can't see myself counting 30 minutes for reading when we only did 15 minutes, or counting a trip to the grocery store as math... but maybe all that will change when the time comes. I'm certainly no expert. :)

 

"The home study program must provide instruction each 12 months to home study students equivalent to 180 school days of education with each school day consisting of at least four and one-half school hours." Just looking at that sentence, I would not interpret it to mean that you have to do 180 days, or that you can't do 810 hours over more or less than 180 days. Rather, I'd interpret it to mean that the total instruction you give over the course of a year has to be the equivalent of 180 4.5 hour days (which total 810 hours).

 

It could, IMHO, be the equivalent in terms of time, and/or content, and/or results. So, again IMHO and IANAL, I think it's defensible to say that you did 180 days, or that you did 810 hours, or that you gave instruction that would take 810 hours in school but it only took you x hours because your child picked it up quickly, or that your child's test scores show that he learned what a typical child who was given 180/810 would have learned.

 

If you're in a vulnerable situation (e.g. the powers-that-be hate you because of previous drama, or your in-laws are calling CPS, or there's a nasty divorce in the works, etc.), then by all means you might want to do some detailed documentation of minutes of instruction. But if you're doing a decent job educating your kids, I wouldn't stress over minute-by-minute documentation.

 

As to what to "count" - now if all your math is of the "grocery store visit" variety, and the child just tags along at the store and doesn't actually do any math, that's one thing. But if the child is working on coins/money/adding/etc. in his math curriculum, and when he goes to the store he is allowed to use his allowance to buy a treat of his choosing, and he has to do the math to see what he can afford, whether it's better to buy the larger box even though it costs more, etc., then that is a legitimate part of his math education. It's not fluff, or "extra", it's IMHO a critical piece of giving him practice in the skills he needs to make financial decisions as an adult, both as a consumer and as someone in a business position, which is part of the goal of a rigorous math curriculum. The fact that he can do it in person, in a real store, with real money, is an advantage of homeschooling; school kids have to simulate this with worksheets and, if they're lucky, play money.

[Mandylubug]

Not only is GA not counting each hour with baited breath, but starting next year you will be sending your attendance records not to the local district, but to the state, and only once a year, not at the end of each month.

 

I've homeschooled in GA for 10 years, and find the regulations here a breeze, well not as breezy as TX, but really easy to follow. You will be surprised at how tiny 4.5 hrs really is, and you are the one who decides what science is or math, for example. Going to Whole Foods and learning to count the veggies & fruits, more than passes for pre-K math. The audio book you listen to, while driving about town, can count as lit. Science is exploring in the backyard, planting flowers or baking a cake. Visiting local historic spots can incorporate all the subjects, and easily take more than 4.5 hours. The more you free yourself to see all the different learning opportunities, the more you will stop worrying about some silly 4.5 hr regulation, that really means nothing. In reality you already educate your child more than 4.5 hours a day.

 

hot dog.. you just made my day :) these monthly attendance forms are just a pain in my rear. I am typically late turning them in. Was complained to for emailing instead of mailing yada yada yada.. woo hoo! can someone point me to the new guidelines? nvm: just read it on the GHEA website. :D

Edited May 17, 2012 by Mandylubug

[J-rap]

I have never kept track of hours. I'm not really good at keeping track of days either. We get through all of our books/curriculum and then we are done.

 

This.

[Dealea86]

"The home study program must provide instruction each 12 months to home study students equivalent to 180 school days of education with each school day consisting of at least four and one-half school hours." Just looking at that sentence, I would not interpret it to mean that you have to do 180 days, or that you can't do 810 hours over more or less than 180 days. Rather, I'd interpret it to mean that the total instruction you give over the course of a year has to be the equivalent of 180 4.5 hour days (which total 810 hours).

 

I'm going by HSLDA's interpretation of the law, and they specifically separate the hourly requirement from the 180 days requirement. Of course, they could be wrong. :-) And really, it doesn't make any sense for them to put equivalent in the law if they really mean 180 days of at least 4.5 hours each....

 

As to what to "count" - now if all your math is of the "grocery store visit" variety, and the child just tags along at the store and doesn't actually do any math, that's one thing. But if the child is working on coins/money/adding/etc. in his math curriculum, and when he goes to the store he is allowed to use his allowance to buy a treat of his choosing, and he has to do the math to see what he can afford, whether it's better to buy the larger box even though it costs more, etc., then that is a legitimate part of his math education. It's not fluff, or "extra", it's IMHO a critical piece of giving him practice in the skills he needs to make financial decisions as an adult, both as a consumer and as someone in a business position, which is part of the goal of a rigorous math curriculum. The fact that he can do it in person, in a real store, with real money, is an advantage of homeschooling; school kids have to simulate this with worksheets and, if they're lucky, play money.

 

I didn't say it wasn't real math - it obviously is. I said it probably wasn't what the lawmakers had in mind when they made the law. IOW, it probably isn't going along with the spirit of the law, and if you were investigated you could potentially get into trouble for things like that - if they found out, and I'm not sure how that would happen. But if they did, that could be a big deal.

 

But you have a good point that if you're not in danger of being investigated, and assuming your child is working close enough to grade level, there's probably nothing to worry about.

[Jpoy85]

Ohio is 900hrs a year no matter what grade.

 

:glare:

[runmiarun]

Not only is GA not counting each hour with baited breath, but starting next year you will be sending your attendance records not to the local district, but to the state, and only once a year, not at the end of each month.

 

I've homeschooled in GA for 10 years, and find the regulations here a breeze, well not as breezy as TX, but really easy to follow. You will be surprised at how tiny 4.5 hrs really is, and you are the one who decides what science is or math, for example. Going to Whole Foods and learning to count the veggies & fruits, more than passes for pre-K math. The audio book you listen to, while driving about town, can count as lit. Science is exploring in the backyard, planting flowers or baking a cake. Visiting local historic spots can incorporate all the subjects, and easily take more than 4.5 hours. The more you free yourself to see all the different learning opportunities, the more you will stop worrying about some silly 4.5 hr regulation, that really means nothing. In reality you already educate your child more than 4.5 hours a day.

 

 

:001_smile: You just made my day. I am in GA and we've been doing school this way for the past 2 years. It's working well for our kids. Once I looked at what worked for our kids, the 4.5 hours came easy.