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Am i nuts? (permissible behavior in 10 yo)


Your opinion! Please read the post  

  1. 1. Your opinion! Please read the post

    • Absolutely, completely fine. Age appropriate.
      14
    • Some aspects are fine (please specify in post), others not.
      35
    • Not age appropriate in my house and i havent seen neighbours allowing it either.
      56
    • Not appropriate but i have definitely seen this sort of thing around us.
      238
    • Other.
      2


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Being interested in boys at that age (and having boys interested in you) seems completely normal. At least, it was normal among my friends when I was that age 30 years ago.

 

That's not to say that I think it's appropriate for kids to do much about their interest at that age, but the interest itself is fine.

 

Of the three behaviors you listed, I think the cell phone use is the most troubling, the hair color is mildly troubling, and the boy interest seems normal.

 

I have to say, living in a state with horrible cell phone coverage does have its advantages. ;)

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Normal here too...but not really appropriate IMO.

 

My girls were 9 when we moved away to TX, and 11 when we moved back. They were horrified at the changes in their friends. The make up, boy drama, and overall cattiness astounds them. Sadly, it seems like they are losing those friends because they just aren't into that stuff. (And yes, these are all public schooled kids)

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I've seen kids get phones when they're old enough to be dropped off at activities. It makes sense because you can no longer count on finding a pay phone and people tend to call rather than making meet-up plans beforehand any more.

 

I haven't seen 10-year-olds acting boy crazy or getting highlights and I live in a major urban area.

 

I will add that some kids have always been interested in the opposite sex. My son noticed girls when he was two and at eleven he's not shy about telling us who he thinks is pretty. He blushes and everything. It's adorable.

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Haven't read all of the replies yet...

The hair thing wouldn't bother me so much. I suppose depending on cost, I'd have her earn money for getting her hair done. We just bought purple hair spray and all the girls (mommy, dd7, dd4, dd1, and our doggie) got purple stripe. :DIt washed out at shower time.

The phone, no way. Yes, by ten the girls will probably have a phone, but ONLY to call us or their grandparents. NOT to be texting/chatting/Internet whenever they want. :glare:

And as for boys, well. I know that at that age most girls do get interested, and that we can't stop the interest, but we will be talking about dating, what it means, ect. No dating of course, but I don't want her to be constantly thinking about what boys are interested in her, kwim? I'm hoping that by installing a desire to excell at a sport/art/hobby/ect. they will have their mind elsewhere during their free time.;)

 

My kids are going to be sheltered. I'm not ashamed of that. I really believe that there are some things that a five, seven, ten, or twelve year old isn't ready for. Sheltering my kids isn't a bad thing. We are out amongst a lot of people daily. However, we provide a parent there to help them navigate certain situations.

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I just think it's sad. I'm in my late thirties, and I remember things being ramped up to strong 'dating' relationships by 6th grade. I remember hating it and wishing I had a few more years to be a kid, but it was hard when the friends around you wanted so badly to be 'grown up'.

 

Now, with phones, internet, junk on t.v... my heart goes out to the children in our society. I can understand limited cell phone use in certain circumstances, but many parents have just taken their hands off the wheel.

 

I think we've gotten a society of parents who grew up too fast themselves, raced to adulthood and had kids of their own without the full understanding of the undertaking they were in for, and now want their own to grow up and be independent of them so they can revert back.

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Yup, completely normal. ETA: It is normally seen around here. The seriousness that is given to 5th grade "relationships" is ridiculous - bordering on obscene. The technology is out of control and clothing/hair/makeup etc. is pretty out of control as well. I know dd is seen as very sheltered. I'm not sure it applies though. She knows lots of kids with all of the above things/situations. Some of them she would love to emulate, some of it she thinks is dumb. She knows what's allowed in our home is all.

Edited by TXMomof4
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I voted some aspects are fine. Dd has had her own phone (we do not have a land line) since she was about 10.5. It was actually cheaper to add her to dh's and my plan than to keep the land line. Yes, she does have the ability to text and has a data plan but it is rare that she uses either. It just came with the plan. Her friends do not have the ability so she can only text me or her dad. ;)

 

She has also had streaks in her hair. Not highlighted professionally just a few streaks of funky colors. They were done about the time she was 10. They've about grown out now.

 

As for the boys... There is a boy she is interested in but she is entirely too shy to ever let anyone but me know. He doesn't know she exists as anything other than a passing nuisance that visits his house periodically to play with his sister.

 

All in all she is still pretty innocent. I've talked to other parents who have complained about the girls in school as young as 2nd grade who are boy crazy to the extreme.

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Back in 1973, when I was ten, the playground talk was about boyfriends and girlfriends. I had a 'boyfriend'. We held hands and kissed on the cheek. Then we went off to different schools and barely saw each other again.

 

The playground chat that Hobbes reports is a bit more explicit than I remember, but I don't know what the boys were talking about at that age when I was young. I don't think that girl/boy talk is necessarily new, or incompatible with a decent upbringing and good life chances.

 

Hair colouring? Well, I don't remember anyone with dyed hair, but we certainly all experimented with hair styles and mum's makeup. Mobile phones? I'd have been really happy to have one: I didn't have any local friends and I was very lonely at weekends and in the holidays. The home phone was an expensive and forbidding object. Hobbes doesn't have a phone yet, but that's largely because he loses things, so he has to become a bit more responsible before he gets one. And then it'll be a cheap calls/texts machines with no internet access.

 

Laura

Edited by Laura Corin
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I wouldn't say I see it a lot but it's out there. My oldest has always gone to public school but I wouldn't allow her to get her hair highlighted at that age but I do think she had a cell phone then. Mainly because I had week-on/week-off custody with her dad and she wanted to be able to call me without having to ask him to use the house phone and have him listening.

 

The liking boy thing has been around for a long time. I remember having crushes starting in about 3rd grade.

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Highlights are so high maintenance. I could see getting a pink streak for fun, but I'd be worried about it looking weird as it grew out. I probably would not do it just because of that and the fact that it would not be a reoccurring deal.

 

Boys- No and No. Not yet. No way.

 

Cell phone- Yep. My girls have one. They were free and cost us minimally each month. They text their friends from church and co op. It is all totally innocent. My girls aren't video gamers so it is their electronic device vice;)

It is an unnecessary luxury that we have allowed.

 

We are in no hurry to grow up here. They still play with dolls, dress up and have tea (pinkies out), and have no interest in boys.....yet.

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I remember liking boys and such at a young age too, but what I see in girls today seems different. It is much more intense, and goes beyond check yes or no type stuff. And with today's technology, the hurt and bickering after a break up gets out of control. I'm friends with most of my girls friends on FB. The things I see on there make me question the parenting of these girls. And I'm not talking about trashy people that don't care about their kids. These are seemingly involved, caring parents.

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I will go so far as to say I STRONGLY question the parenting in these cases, sadly i see them all the time.

 

I find it HIGHLY unacceptable -- boarding on neglectful or abusive (allowing the sexualization of a child, not protecting her).

 

Many parents do not want to parent; they either don't care to be bothered or they want to be buddies

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is it normal nowadays, even among "certain circles", for a 10 yo girl to

 

1) get her hair highlighted? Yes, I have seen this where I live. Not for my dd. Not because I don't think it is age appropriate but because there is no need to put harsh chemicals on a kids head.

 

2) have her own phone with unlimited texting and talk (definitely used a lot, not an "emergency phone")? Yes, the norm. My dd was one of them at 10.

 

3) to have "boys interested in her", a concept she understands and discusses with friends (although she is not allowed to officially "date", thank goodness). Definitely normal around here. I think it is a result of too much tv watching without enough parental discussion of their family values.

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I will go so far as to say I STRONGLY question the parenting in these cases, sadly i see them all the time.

 

I find it HIGHLY unacceptable -- boarding on neglectful or abusive (allowing the sexualization of a child, not protecting her).

 

Many parents do not want to parent; they either don't care to be bothered or they want to be buddies

 

I never thought I would say this here. :glare:

 

ABUSE? NEGLECT?

 

For cell phones, highlights and not disallowing boy-interest? Wow. Holy wow.

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I never thought I would say this here. :glare:

 

ABUSE? NEGLECT?

 

For cell phones, highlights and not disallowing boy-interest? Wow. Holy wow.

 

The pp may be reading more into the situation than was stated, but the picture as painted doesn't go anywhere near abuse or neglect.

 

Laura

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:iagree:Sadly, it is the norm and it is one very big reason I'm keeping my kids at home. I want my kids to be kids. You know, while they are kids. :tongue_smilie:

 

This... All day long. I actually giggle when I get socialization questions- because in my head I am thinking "we are homeschooling because we don't want that type of socialization!"

 

I also totally agree that each example in the OP has to do with intent... The phone- in split-parenting arrangements, I can see it... If it operates like a landline would have back when I was 10 (sitting on a stool next to the corded phone to talk to friends) then that's cool. IOW- the usage of said phone is the same. I really do not like the idea of teens and younger texting- which is a whole other topic. But I will just say that most of the evils I see from adolescent cell phone use is because of texting and picture messaging. The actual phone part I have little issue with- within boundaries.

Same goes for dying hair. Fun, play, experimentation- totally fine with me. But for any other social reason... No- not at that age. And I am all for adults changing things they don't like about their appearance. But there is something about a still growing child deciding they don't like their actual appearance and changing it to be more attractive that just squicks me out.

 

The boy thing... Yes I remember little crushes at about that age. In my head it seems like didn't really get going till middle school- but I could be wrong. BUT- the boys were never told by the girls and vice versa. There is something going on with *some girls*, and with parental encouragement- describing it as cute, that is just more "out there" with their crushes or whatever. What I remember from that bracket of time was super-pinky-swear-secret type of stuff.

Edited by Unscripted
Thanks auto-correct.
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I never thought I would say this here. :glare:

 

ABUSE? NEGLECT?

 

For cell phones, highlights and not disallowing boy-interest? Wow. Holy wow.

 

Wow. Extra wow. I agree with Joanne, as usual. I don't see the highlight thing as a parental abuse or sexuality thing, it is just a thing. No more abusive than dance class, playing with Barbies and watching Miss America. Not even odd, really, I'm in my 40's and it all happened in my childhood, too. When my daughter was 10, the "juicy" thing written on the butt of shorts and sweat pants was "in" and we skipped it because it made me want to scream but I don't think it is cool to judge parental ability based on it. Let's save the abuse label for real abuse? Boyfriends...goodness. I remember those, too. My boys had girls calling, texting (yes, my youngest got his cell phone at 10 and it was fantastic because we could find him all the time) and emailing them. They were funny and shocking but not really a big honking deal.

Edited by Mad Charity
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Hair highlights at 10...I couldn't care less.

Cell phone....It really isn't any different that a cordless home phone in my eyes...and if the parent has the right plan, they can actually monitor their child's phone usage more on a cell that at home.

Boys...you can't really control that one. I remember the boyfriend/girlfriend thing in 5th grade in the late 70's/early 80's from when I was in school. I don't think that is anything new and has to do more with biology that society.

 

 

The three may sound like a big deal, but honestly I think there are more important things to be worried about. These three....meh, no big deal.

 

 

I have a 13yo w/o a cell, w/o highlights, and w/o a boyfriend.....so I am not just saying this to make me happy about my own choices. :D

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Where do you draw the line? And once you've stepped into the territory, how do you set up boundries?

 

It's okay to get her hair highlighted to make her more attractive to boys? Well, what about a short skirt or a push-up bra or perfume and what about her nails and when should she start shaving her legs and her bikini area and when should you start having "the talk" about abstinence or use of birth control? Because if she is interested in boys that should come up in conversation especially is she interested in boys over 13.

 

I am not talking about disallowing an interest in boys, but let's make it more age appropriate.

 

Do you all not remember girls as young as 13 and 14 going to "parties" where they were "helping" older boys???? It made the news. Don't tell me that these girls just woke up one morning and "forgot" every good thing their parents ever told them about appropriate behavior and that it occured in spite of the parents limiting activities. It is a slippery slope to allow girls and boys to try on adult behavior before they have reached puberty - before they have the maturity to understand what they are getting themselves into.

 

You all can say I am overreacting all you want. But I knew several girls at my public high school who were pregnant by the middle of 9th grade and 2 or 3 who were pregnant in 8th. That has colored my view on when girls should be allowed to participate in grown up activities. I would rather not be a grandparent next year.

 

I would ask your husbands how they would feel about their little girls getting their hair done and chatting about "boys" on the phone and trying to get the boys' attention at 10.

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Where do you draw the line? And once you've stepped into the territory, how do you set up boundries?

 

It's okay to get her hair highlighted to make her more attractive to boys? Well, what about a short skirt or a push-up bra or perfume and what about her nails and when should she start shaving her legs and her bikini area and when should you start having "the talk" about abstinence or use of birth control? Because if she is interested in boys that should come up in conversation especially is she interested in boys over 13.

 

Why do we assume a girl has to be getting her hair highlighted to to more attractive to boys? Maybe she just wants to have her hair highlighted?

 

Do you all not remember girls as young as 13 and 14 going to "parties" where they were "helping" older boys???? It made the news. Don't tell me that these girls just woke up one morning and "forgot" every good thing their parents ever told them about appropriate behavior and that it occured in spite of the parents limiting activities. It is a slippery slope to allow girls and boys to try on adult behavior before they have reached puberty - before they have the maturity to understand what they are getting themselves into.

 

Wait...what? Girls having a normal interest in boys at 10/11 automatically leads to wild sex parties at 13?

 

You all can say I am overreacting all you want.

 

Good. I will.

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Hair - fine

 

Phone - fine. Lots of kids have them here because it's just too darn cold to walk home much of the year. DD10 doesn't need or have one, but talks to her friends on the home phone ALL.THE.TIME

 

the "boy thing" - less ok, but seems to be happening. A couple of girls on DD10's softball team (10/11yos) are aware of boys. Thankfully, DD10 is not - yet.

 

ETA: reading above - when do you have the talk about birth control and abstinence? For DD, we started about age 8 when she started having questions about babies and stuff. And DD would probably enjoy getting her hair highlighted - except that means she would have to brush it! - but not to attract boys. Just because it would look cool.

Edited by AK_Mom4
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Yep. It's disgusting. I've seen 6 year olds with their nails done from a spa, and teens having iphones and well, the hair! I can't even imagine what sort of jobs they will need to keep up the pace that their parents have set for them. I could go on, but I'll stop now.

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Where do you draw the line? And once you've stepped into the territory, how do you set up boundries?

 

It's okay to get her hair highlighted to make her more attractive to boys? Well, what about a short skirt or a push-up bra or perfume and what about her nails and when should she start shaving her legs and her bikini area and when should you start having "the talk" about abstinence or use of birth control? Because if she is interested in boys that should come up in conversation especially is she interested in boys over 13.

 

I am not talking about disallowing an interest in boys, but let's make it more age appropriate.

 

Do you all not remember girls as young as 13 and 14 going to "parties" where they were "helping" older boys???? It made the news. Don't tell me that these girls just woke up one morning and "forgot" every good thing their parents ever told them about appropriate behavior and that it occured in spite of the parents limiting activities. It is a slippery slope to allow girls and boys to try on adult behavior before they have reached puberty - before they have the maturity to understand what they are getting themselves into.

 

You all can say I am overreacting all you want. But I knew several girls at my public high school who were pregnant by the middle of 9th grade and 2 or 3 who were pregnant in 8th. That has colored my view on when girls should be allowed to participate in grown up activities. I would rather not be a grandparent next year.

 

I would ask your husbands how they would feel about their little girls getting their hair done and chatting about "boys" on the phone and trying to get the boys' attention at 10.

 

This assumes facts not in evidence.

 

Why do you assume the highlights are exclusively for sexual attractiveness? Where in the OP does it affirm that the interest in boys = inappropriate?

 

You are offering a quirky slippery slope arguement. In *reality*, I see plenty of real life examples of drawing lines. My dd is allowed makeup - with limits. I don't have to disallow makeup all together.

 

There is not a linear progression between hair highlights at 10 and unprotected sex at 15. There is not even a tenuous one.

 

Yes; your reaction is hyperbolic and exaggerated and even insulting to the group of girls who could simply be giggling over crushes while still playing with blocks, dolls, and race cars.

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The pp may be reading more into the situation than was stated, but the picture as painted doesn't go anywhere near abuse or neglect.

 

Laura

 

allowing a child to behave in a sexual manner, be presented as sexual, can very well be abuse and at the very least the lack of parenting can be seen a neglect.

 

I spent 10 years as a foster mom and 5 in a shelter -- i am not talking about every case, of course, but it is a serious concern -- if they are allwoing and heling their 10 year to act like a 17 year old what other boundaries are not in place?

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Interest in the opposite sex started to develop around 10 back when I was a kid. That strikes me as totally normal, though I think it was more girls interested in boys than vice versa. (We had a thread about this not long ago)

 

I don't see highlights as being a particularly big deal.

 

I think that unlimited cell phone used in an unlimited fashion is not healthy, but I don't think it's particularly unusual.

 

:iagree:

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allowing a child to behave in a sexual manner, be presented as sexual, can very well be abuse and at the very least the lack of parenting can be seen a neglect.

 

I spent 10 years as a foster mom and 5 in a shelter -- i am not talking about every case, of course, but it is a serious concern -- if they are allwoing and heling their 10 year to act like a 17 year old what other boundaries are not in place?

 

 

Highlights? Cell phone? Boys interested in her but not allowed to date? Pray tell in what way are the parents having this child behave in a sexual manner?

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allowing a child to behave in a sexual manner, be presented as sexual, can very well be abuse and at the very least the lack of parenting can be seen a neglect.

 

I spent 10 years as a foster mom and 5 in a shelter -- i am not talking about every case, of course, but it is a serious concern -- if they are allwoing and heling their 10 year to act like a 17 year old what other boundaries are not in place?

 

...for a 10 yo girl to 1) get her hair highlighted 2) have her own phone with unlimited texting and talk (definitely used a lot, not an "emergency phone") and 3) to have "boys interested in her", a concept she understands and discusses with friends (although she is not allowed to officially "date", thank goodness).

 

The only thing that suggests anything sexual is 3) to have "boys interested in her", a concept she understands and discusses with friends. As I have stated, this was normal when I was ten in 1973. It was not evidence of abuse or neglect. Instead, it was play-acting, just as much as was playing house or playing shop.

 

Now, what the OP is witnessing may go way beyond this, but this is not what she stated and not what I responded to.

 

I do understand that you have had contact with children who have have been abused or neglected and who behave in this way. That does not mean that all, or even most, children who behave in this way have been abused or neglected.

 

You ask what other boundaries might not be in place? We don't know, but we do know that one boundary is in place: no dating. I don't think we can assume that there are no other appropriate boundaries in place.

 

Laura

Edited by Laura Corin
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I have a sibling who gives their children cell phones around age 8/9. One of the children is now 11 and has a "girlfriend" whom he is allowed unsupervised texting with. He also went on his "first date" with this girlfriend shortly after he turned 11. It was to a family event, so supervised, but was still called a "first date." (As opposed to simply having a friend join in on a fun event. :confused:)

 

DH's sibling has a child that got in trouble for "s*xting" at age 13.

 

And...

 

DS was just invited to a co-ed sleepover for a 10-year-old neighbor child.

DS will NOT be attending. :glare:

 

I don't find any of that appropriate, but it is common here and where our family lives.

 

 

I'm mixed on the hair highlights. It's only hair. But I find the idea of highlights to be a "mature" thing. I think I would be more comfortable with allowing a 10-year-old child to color their hair purple than to have it highlighted. Just me, though.

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Interest in the opposite sex started to develop around 10 back when I was a kid. That strikes me as totally normal, though I think it was more girls interested in boys than vice versa. (We had a thread about this not long ago)

 

I don't see highlights as being a particularly big deal.

 

I think that unlimited cell phone used in an unlimited fashion is not healthy, but I don't think it's particularly unusual.

 

Being interested in boys at that age (and having boys interested in you) seems completely normal. At least, it was normal among my friends when I was that age 30 years ago.

 

That's not to say that I think it's appropriate for kids to do much about their interest at that age, but the interest itself is fine.

 

Of the three behaviors you listed, I think the cell phone use is the most troubling, the hair color is mildly troubling, and the boy interest seems normal.

 

I have to say, living in a state with horrible cell phone coverage does have its advantages. ;)

:iagree::iagree:

 

When I was 10 and in 5th grade, I had a "boyfriend". We didn't kiss, we didn't hold hands, we didn't even talk on the phone. So I'm not exactly sure what made him my "boyfriend".:tongue_smilie:

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I see nothing wrong with the hair if you want to pay for it. As for the phone, mine get them when they hit 6th grade...so 11. The boy thing heck no. You can date in high school but even then I keep a real close eye on the whole thing.:glare:

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Some interest in boys seems normal. I remember talking about boys with my girlfriends before then. However, it was mostly talk and if we had a "boyfriend" it meant very little in reality ie teasing each other during recess. Certainly no kind of dates or such, or even outings or talking on the phone. Dating wasn't until highschool for me and most of my friends, ie if people could drive. Before then you might be at school events or such that your parents had drove you to but I don't remember boyfriends coming over to houses or any other contact before highschool really. I do remember talking to boys on the phone but that was in Jr. High.

 

Highlights for a 10yo seem excessive for me, although my girly girl would love something like that I'm sure. I'm too cheap for me though and certainly for her, not to mention all the chemicals.

 

Unlimited phone and text seem to be coming more and more common. I think a fair amount of kids those ages have phones, or at least it seems popular in the public school crowd. I see it some with hs kids, although not *quite* that young for the most part.

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Wanted to add, I've certainly seen girls dressed in a sexualized manner at that age, which I highly disagree with, but highlights by themselves don't indicate that it is a sexual thing. My 5 yo would think they were neat I'm sure, if she was given that option and she still wants to marry her daddy or mommy depending on the day. As pp mentioned as well girls having an interest in boys has started from an early age certainly since I was a child. Now, depending on where that goes or means it could be a big problem.

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Around here many of our schooled friends have cell phones, but in part because the parents are socialites and need to be able to receive a call from the kids whom are left home alone. I wish I were kidding.

 

We have an extra cell for when the kids are home alone, because we don't have a landline. It's cheaper to spend $10/month to add them on a family plan than to pay for a regular phone. They also would use it if they're walking home from a sports practice or something - I can't give them mine for that, because I'm who they would call! We're not socialites, though (I think - not entirely sure what that means).

 

When I was substitute teaching (10+ years ago) there were kids as young as 2nd grade whose hair was dyed or highlighted - both boys and girls. I wouldn't let mine do it at that age, but it seems not uncommon around here.

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it's definitely not normal where we live (small town in florida). my daughter is 10 and her 2 best friends are 11 years old and in public school (one in 5th grade and one in 6th). none of them have boyfriends, cell phones, or highlighted hair. maybe her friends are the exception?

 

and having said that though, i have let my daughter have purple in her hair before and probably would again. it was just semi-permanent wash out stuff. as for boys and phones though, no. when my daughter is 13 we told her we would discuss getting a phone though.

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I would be fine with the hair thing. I'm pretty flexible about how the kids want their hair.

 

I wouldn't want my ten year old to be on a cell phone all the time, though I could see the benefit of her having one for emergencies if we didn't homeschool.

 

The boy talk would not be ok with me.

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We have an extra cell for when the kids are home alone, because we don't have a landline. It's cheaper to spend $10/month to add them on a family plan than to pay for a regular phone. They also would use it if they're walking home from a sports practice or something - I can't give them mine for that, because I'm who they would call! We're not socialites, though (I think - not entirely sure what that means).

 

When I was substitute teaching (10+ years ago) there were kids as young as 2nd grade whose hair was dyed or highlighted - both boys and girls. I wouldn't let mine do it at that age, but it seems not uncommon around here.

 

Oh I'm TOTALLY all for that one! I am speaking of a couple families I know that leave their children (3 siblings) for several hours, and they are not exactly the age when it is appropriate yet.

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I've seen this a little bit, but I''m not sure how widespread it is. My kids didn't have many friends that weren't homeschooled.

 

Dd had a best friend that lived next door to us for many years. She attended public school. I remember she had a cell phone when she was probably ten or eleven. She was involved in a lot of activities and her mom worked, so they felt it was necessary for communicating when she needed to be picked up and other things.

 

She never did anything different or unusual as far as her hair.

 

As far as boys, she talked about having a "boyfriend" when she was in first grade. :glare: They never thought it was a big deal. She is old enough to actually date now. The funny thing is on her FB page she lists her boyfriend as her husband. :confused: I asked dd about it, and she said a lot of kids do that nowadays even though they are only dating.

 

OTOH, our kids weren't allowed to have cell phones until they were fourteen. Dd had to wait until she was sixteen for highlights (more because of cost and maintenance). And as far as boys, we made it clear at a young age that you don't do the whole boyfriend thing or get all gaga over boys. Boys can be friends, but dating and having a boyfriend is reserved for when you are older.

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Yes, normal around here. I don't really care about the highlights or cell phones but the boys. Yes it's normal to have crushes, but stories I heard from my DD's this year about what girls and their "boyfriends" did at 11-13 make me sad.

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