Anyone else's nonwhite kids have a negative reaction to MLK lessons?

[SKL]

My KG dds are brown-skinned. They have attended preschool for 2.5 years with diverse classmates. This is the first year they had a formal MLK lesson. First they came home talking about how black kids used to have to go to different schools from white kids, etc. Then they started on a trend of commenting how they want lighter skin, isn't my skin lighter than Sister's, A's is darker than mine so she's yucky.

 

I have heard that other similar-aged brown-skinned kids have had similar reactions right after MLK day.

 

Those of you with nonwhite children - do you notice this? Do you think it's because kids this young don't get the point that adults did IGNORANT things to blacks because racism is IGNORANT? That's what I think. They get that society did ABC and they get that ABC was sucky for black people. But they don't get that ABC was based on foolishness - after all, it was done by the adults in charge. Am I making any sense?

 

Racism is certainly alive and well in America, but I don't think it does our kids any good to tell them at age 5/6 that for most of history, our whole country believed darker skin meant bad people. I think they can get the point of the lesson when they are several years older. Meanwhile, each family can address racial issues as they see fit (my kids and I have had many discussions about racism and slavery that didn't leave them feeling ugly or undesireable).

 

Any other views from parents of nonwhite kids?

[deacongirl]

The blogger at Heart Mind and Seoul has done some great posts on this. It is so complicated and we are muddling through. This has also been helpful to me:

http://loveisntenough.com/

[frugalmama]

we're sorta quasi-white here {native american mostly} and DD is darker but not dark, if that makes sense. We totally skipped MLK day - when she is older we will discuss it, but I don't really think younger children should learn about it. It's too easy for them to misunderstand or internalize what they see given as examples.

 

Fwiw, we have to do the same thing in November when it's Native American month - a lot of exhibits here only focus on the raids and such that used to be done, and emphasize things like boarding schools to "educate" native children into good "whites" {their terms not mine}. We skip almost everything done and talk about traditions and native culture.

[jplain]

I agree with you. The times I've been involved with MLK programs for younger kids, most of the message went completely over the heads of the pre-K, K, and early elementary kids, regardless of the kids' skin colors.

 

While I think ongoing, general dialogue about racism is important, I'd prefer to save the detailed discussion of MLK for later on....

 

:grouphug: to your daughters. You might find helpful books titles here: Amazon Best Sellers in Children's Racism and Prejudice Books.

[*********]

We're all white, so I don't know if this will help or not, but I'll share it with you.

 

My boys and I talked about MLK, slavery, civil rights, etc. the other day. My younger one especially almost didn't even believe me that some white people thought/think that just because someone else's skin is darker than theirs, it means they're 'less'. It was like 'does not compute' on his face, IYKWIM. Then he had lots of questions about why, and do people still believe that, etc.

 

Which surprised me a bit, because we talk a lot in our home about how there's evil in the world, and things of that nature. But the idea that someone was somehow 'less' simply because of their skin color was so ridiculous to my boys, that they almost didn't believe me at first. For which I'm very grateful.

 

I have no experience with having children with darker skin who are wishing for lighter skin. But in your situation, I'd make sure the children understood that it was foolish and wrong for people to judge others based simply on skin color. And that it's great we all don't look exactly alike. And that skin color means nothing at all in regards to what sort of character a person has.

[fairfarmhand]

my kids are pasty white Irish kids. Even my 6 yr old gets angry that ANYONE EVER thought that the kids of other colors used to be discriminated against. They say that that thought process is totally unfair.

 

I don't tell them that it was their grandparent's generation that had some hard feelings toward other races. (my mil will occasionally say some nasty things. But she has stopped since I've started saying things sarcastically like. "Oh yes, that comment really shows the love of Jesus.")

 

My kids are jealous of the bi-racial kids that occasionally show up at our church. My girls LOVE the little girls' hair.

 

My oldest reminds me of Laura in the Little House on the Prairie . She wants me to adopt a little African American baby. "But mom, they are so beautiful!"

 

It is odd that they feel like that, since I have never been preachy about this topic, just lived my life lovingly as possible. My dd asked me why dad was off work on Mon, and when I told her a brief synopsis about MLK, she said.."Well, it sounds like he was a pretty good guy."

 

We've read a few books about Rosa Parks, but never really covered civil rights in depth, mostly just small comments about the way things used to be, especially here in the South.

[SKL]

The blogger at Heart Mind and Seoul has done some great posts on this. It is so complicated and we are muddling through. This has also been helpful to me:

http://loveisntenough.com/

 

Could you post the address of Heart Mind and Seoul? I googled it and found many different sites using that title.

 

Thanks!

[TravelingChris]

I was wondering whether to bring this up. The little girl I am tutoring is a first grader who looks black. (I'll get back to why I said looks) Anyway, each week I ask her what kind of book she wants me to bring for reading next week. Last week she asked for a book about Martin Luther King. So I found an easy reader type book with photos. We start reading. Sentence #2 is the problematic one. It said he was an African American. She asks me what that means. I explain that since he was black, a word she does know, his ancestors (explained as grandparents, and great grandparents, etc) a long time ago came from Africa. She asks more questions. I tell her that unless you are an Indian or native American, your ancestors came from somewhere else. Africa, Europe or Asia. I then say that like I would be a European American if we called everybody by the continent their ancestors came from. I did include that we are all people and it really doesn't matter.

 

We go on and read some more. We read about the buses and she had heard about that before. She gets quiet but then tells me her mom is white. So she is really half black. I just emphasize again that we are all humans. Then she sees a picture of Coretta Scott King and thinks she is white, and I have to explain she isn;t but is light skinned. Then she said she was light skinned too. Well she isn;t dark skinned but she really isn;t that light skinned either, so I just said she is fairly light skinned.

 

I am happy that she had now decided she wants a book about animals next week.

[pitterpatter]

We too are white here. (Sorry, I know you wanted posts from families with non-white children). My DD is 4.5 years old. She has three cousins on my husband's side who are bi-racial and have light skin. On my side, DD has two newly adopted cousins who are darker skinned. She has not noticed that her three cousins on my husband's side have a different skin color. However, at Christmas, she referred to the newly adopted girl she was playing with on my side as "the girl with a different color skin". DD couldn't remember her name, as I believe it was the third time she had seen/visited with the child in the past year or so. I was a little surprised because DD has tons of dolls and toys of different race and ethnicity. She has never once referred to any of them as having dark or different colored skin. She will say the one with curly hair or blue bow or whatever. DH and I have been very careful not use skin color as a descriptor.

 

I will not be teaching DD MLK studies until her brain has matured to the point that reading/learning about slavery and civil rights will not influence her mindset in a negative way. I do not wish for her to be asking her cousins about issues that they know little about. She absolutely adores the girls on both sides and I don't want to jeopardize those friendships. I have a hard enough time explaining slavery in the Bible.

Edited January 21, 2012 by pitterpatter

[NotAVampireLvr]

DS1 got his first MLK lesson in preschool. We are a white family. Up until this lesson DS1 had never noticed color. We lived in a townhouse complex and had neigbors to the right of us were bi-racial (Puerto Rican & Hatian) and to the left of us we had a Chinese family. (literally from China - here on work study at the local university). The family to the left of us had children where 1/2 were super dark skinned and the other 1/2 were light skinned. DS1 never noticed the difference and all the kids played together fine. After the lesson the next playdate we had he was full of questions. Not rude per-se, but it definitely made things awkward. The other mom's knew he didn't mean any harm with it, but to go for race not being an issue to now having all kinds of questions made things tense for a while.

 

What I'm saying is that at preschool/kindergarten/early elementary when kids have no filter it can make things pretty awkward. Around that same time he was really into spider-man and had both the red and the black spiderman and kept going around saying that the black spider-man is the bad-guy because he's black. I wanted to crawl in a hole and bury myself!

 

I do plan on covering Black History Month with DS1 next year but I will have separate activities planned out for the kids.

[BigMamaBird]

 

Those of you with nonwhite children - do you notice this? Do you think it's because kids this young don't get the point that adults did IGNORANT things to blacks because racism is IGNORANT? That's what I think. They get that society did ABC and they get that ABC was sucky for black people. But they don't get that ABC was based on foolishness - after all, it was done by the adults in charge. Am I making any sense?

 

I think most of the problems come in when adults are uncomfortable talking to kids about race and racism and skin color. I think its a far more valuable skill to learn to say matter of factly to a child that some people DO value lighter skin over darker skin and some people DO make judgements on people based on skin color and these people are ignorant of what really matters to "me" (the teacher/parent), which is how you act and who you are inside and what you choose to do and be.

 

The fact is that light skin is seen still as more attractive and more valuable than dark skin, and this is perpetuated by almost every community- both the Hollywood film industry for example and by some within the AA community.

 

 

A white Mom with young white kids here, so we haven't really gotten in depth with MLK or racism yet. You both make very good points about talking more about the ignorance behind the problem though. Any MLK books we've read have been very story centered. "Here's what he did, isn't that great" completely leaving out the why's behind it. A good reminder, thank you.

[Cindy in FL.]

We're members of an african-american church. We're white and there's only one other white person in the church. Last year the youth put on a MLK program. As the only white kid participating my ds got to be a slave trader. It was uncomfortable to say the least.

 

So, that knife can cut both ways. My children felt bad and uncomfortable. Being white was not "good" in that situation. All you can really do is support and teach your children about the truth.

 

Cindy

[NotAVampireLvr]

We're members of an african-american church. We're white and there's only one other white person in the church. Last year the youth put on a MLK program. As the only white kid participating my ds got to be a slave trader. It was uncomfortable to say the least.

 

Cindy

 

I'm not sure I could've gone along with that.

[*********]

We're members of an african-american church. We're white and there's only one other white person in the church. Last year the youth put on a MLK program. As the only white kid participating my ds got to be a slave trader. It was uncomfortable to say the least.

 

So, that knife can cut both ways. My children felt bad and uncomfortable. Being white was not "good" in that situation. All you can really do is support and teach your children about the truth.

 

Cindy

 

Why in the world did they do this?! I don't think it's necessary to put your son in the postion of 'playing' a slave trader. That's unnecessary. I wouldn't have let my son participate.

[SKL]

It's too easy for them to misunderstand or internalize what they see given as examples.

 

 

:iagree: I think the MLK lesson (and probably others) is an example of good intentions having the exact opposite result. White kids are relieved that they aren't black. Black kids are wondering if they are inferior. It just seems to perpetuate the ignorance.

 

I'm not saying that nobody should ever mention race or racism to kids, but these particular school lessons seem to have missed the mark.

 

I find myself feeling sorry for the little AA kids in the KG class for having to sit through this type of instruction.

[SKL]

We're members of an african-american church. We're white and there's only one other white person in the church. Last year the youth put on a MLK program. As the only white kid participating my ds got to be a slave trader. It was uncomfortable to say the least.

 

So, that knife can cut both ways. My children felt bad and uncomfortable. Being white was not "good" in that situation. All you can really do is support and teach your children about the truth.

 

Cindy

 

True, being a white slave trader wasn't "good," but neither is playing the black slaves. Sounds like yet another misguided exercise, depending on the kids' ages.

 

I do believe there is a time when it's absolutely appropriate to dig deep and be brutally honest about "bad stuff." But for young children, I would rather focus on what makes us all equally human and equally valuable. Once that's established, we can talk more about the ignorance of racism.

 

But like I said, I've had discussions with my kids. We've watched West Side Story and discussed racism in that context, for example. And certain scenes from The Littlest Rebel (Shirley Temple) sparked good discussions. But our discussions focused on how the individuals involved or "some individuals" were/are foolish, and stupid people do stupid things. I think the message about institutionalized racism, where the whole country found it acceptable, has a greater likelihood of being internalized. Or, maybe it's more the fact that these lessons were taught by teachers without the mom right there to respond to individual reactions.

[Dmmetler]

We're white, but one of the things that stuck with me was when DD was 3 and in part-time preschool while I was working, she came home after Martin Luther King Day and the lessons about it very quiet and then, very softly, asked "Did you know Darrell and Faith are Black??". It really shook her world to think of these two little kids in her class as colors instead of as people, and as being somehow different from her. And at the time, I really, really wished that her teacher had skipped the lesson and talked about flowers instead or something, because I felt that a barely 3 yr old was too young to be thinking of other children as concepts, and should focus on the fact that Darrell likes playing with blocks and Faith always wants to be mommy in the playhouse!

[EKS]

I don't have nonwhite kids, but I suspect that you're right. I think really little kids are going to focus on concrete things in a lesson like that and skin color is concrete. I remember when my son was in preschool and they did the same lessons and he did not get it at all.

 

I think it is better to study the civil rights movement for the first time in the context of history with the appropriate background information in place. Of course, it's a little difficult to do that if you're only devoting one day to the topic.

[butterflymommy]

I didn't let my younger ones watch a documentary about his assassination... the older ones did. One of my older ones is a massive history buff so I think he just views it within the context of many other outrages in history... history has no shortage of horrors. My other older child was just very sad concerning the whole topic.

 

I explained segregation to the younger ones and they were shocked about miscegenation laws. I have always been surprised, though, by the light hearted attitude they've shown toward race and race issues. We have a whole range of skin colors in the house so perhaps that is part of it.

[Dobela]

White mom of nonwhite children here. This year we didn't specifically address MLK day although in years past we have.

 

First, racism/discrimination is not about ignorance - racism/discrimination is about power. I am better than you because I have something you don't have, and it is something you can't change about yourself (skin color, disability, etc). Because I am better than you and have this unchangeable trait, I deserve priviledges you don't deserve. I also have seen reverse discrimination - I will assume that you are giong to treat me bad so I am going to discredit you as fast as I can and nopt trust you. When we first adopted our son we had 2 experiences - one was that black friends embraced us and have become even closer. Others stopped being our friends because they didn't approve of racial blending other than superficial ways socially.

 

Children can be racist, or at least act in racist ways. It is taught in the home and these kids go into the world spewing what they are taught at home. My son was first called a N by a child of about 5 on the playground she he was not even 2 years old. I don't think that the child necessarily really understood what she was saying, but she said it and was using it as a reason why my child should be excluded. Just 2 years ago my then 9yo son was told by a white child in our church that she could no longer be friends with him because white kids and brown kids can't be friends. She had come to this conclusion after hearing her dad and her grandmother complain constantly about other races and ethnic groups.

 

So, how do we address MLK here? I have told my son that he is one of a group of people who decided to stand up and say that it was time for all of us to be treated the same. He is most celebrated because he was the most out spoken. No one should have to attend a school that is very deficient just because of their skin color. No one should have to ride in the back of the bus where the fumes are just because they have a certain skin color. And so on. But we have also talked about how it is more than just skin color - think about the laws in some states that said if there was one drop of blood in the family history from a black person, all ancestors are black no matter what the skin color (or how blond hair blue eyed they may be). We have also talked about how we would not be a family if those laws still existed intended to keep us separate. I also take time to tell him about other groups that have been grossly discriminated against due to ethnic background - the Chinese who came to work on railroads, the Native Americans, and so on.

 

We have not had difficulties with my son or his friends classifying people according to skin color that I know of. I do know that after the incident with the girl at church my son seems to have more friends that are brown skinned (hispanic, African American, Indian) than white friends.

[SKL]

you are naive if you think kids do not notice color. They are not little Stephen Colberts. LOL

 

They absolutely notice color. Noticing it and feeling ugly, yucky, bad, or otherwise inferior over it are two different things.

[SKL]

The child in my kids' preschool who has said the most racist things is a black child. In fact, she's the first person who used the terms "black" and "white" around my kids (we use "brown / tan skin" when it comes up). Most of the little kids (black, white, and other) didn't seem to come to preschool with preconceived notions about skin color = value.

[Dmmetler]

We're members of an african-american church. We're white and there's only one other white person in the church. Last year the youth put on a MLK program. As the only white kid participating my ds got to be a slave trader. It was uncomfortable to say the least.

 

So, that knife can cut both ways. My children felt bad and uncomfortable. Being white was not "good" in that situation. All you can really do is support and teach your children about the truth.

 

Cindy

 

I taught for 7 years in a public elementary school where you could literally count the non-Black kids on the fingers of one hand (usually one family in a given year, either White or Hispanic). And a big part of the school all year round, but especially in February, often crossed the line to where even as a White TEACHER I felt downright hated, because so much of the focus was on injustices that had been levied on Blacks by the White oppressors. I cannot imagine how hard it was to be the one non-Black child in one of those classrooms. And I think that the primary lesson the Black kids took away was one of hostility, and one that led them feeling that they had a whole world stacked against them to keep them from success (which, admittedly, when you're talking to low income, urban kids, probably wasn't too far from the truth.) I wish the focus had been more positive and more contemporary. Little girls, of whatever color, need a heroine beyond Harriet Tubman.

[Dmmetler]

you are naive if you think kids do not notice color. They are not little Stephen Colberts. LOL

 

I know my daughter had noticed color well before age 3, because she'd talk about skin color, hair color, eye color and so on. But what she didn't do was think of different skin colors as being a reason to divide people, any more than different hair color was. The lesson she took from her teacher's Martin Luther King Jr. Preschool circle time was that she was wrong-that skin color WAS somehow significant in a way she didn't understand.

 

At age 7, after a couple of years of studying world history, she's starting to be able to put some of the things that happened in the US into context and realize that throughout history, people have used anything they could to oppress others, but it's because she's read about slaves in Egypt, and slaves in Rome, and can understand that the people brought from Africa weren't made slaves because of skin color. Rather, it's because in order to oppress a group, you've got to have some way to label them as "different"-whether it's religion, having lost in battle, or some physical feature, and that Africans were simply the group that was easy to label as "not us". And that "That was STUPID, Mommy!!!!". Martin Luther King Day (and Black history month) is a big deal here in Memphis-but this is the first year I've felt like she was really starting to get anything but a feeling that she'd done something bad and that she didn't understand what.

[Heathermomster]

Racism is certainly alive and well in America, but I don't think it does our kids any good to tell them at age 5/6 that for most of history, our whole country believed darker skin meant bad people. I think they can get the point of the lesson when they are several years older. Meanwhile, each family can address racial issues as they see fit (my kids and I have had many discussions about racism and slavery that didn't leave them feeling ugly or undesirable).

 

Any other views from parents of nonwhite kids?

 

All of my nieces and nephews are nonwhite...I agree with you 100%.

[NotAVampireLvr]

you are naive if you think kids do not notice color. They are not little Stephen Colberts. LOL

 

Of course they noticed - what I mean is when I say they don't notice is that it was just a non-issue. It just "was". It wasn't until DS1 had a lesson in school that he started talking about it and asking questions and becoming noticeably conscious about it.

[acurtis75]

I am white, my husband is not therefore our daughter has light brown skin. We've chosen at this point (she'll be seven next month) to deal with issues of racism as they come up in history. We're in SOTW 2 so we haven't done American History or the Civil Rights Movement yet. I say we deal with it as things come up because racism isn't just a black/white thing. There are many instances in Ancient History where one people group has hated another for no good reason. In the Secret Garden the Indian servants are referred to with a negative slang term. We discussed why this was wrong and how attitudes about people different than us are an indication of what's in our heart. In Peter Pan they refer to Native Americans with negative terms and in ways that dehumanized them. We discussed this and why it's wrong. We watched a Brainpop about a famous female mathematician (who's name escapes me now) and it referenced the fact that during the time she lived most educated men believed women were incapable of learning to read. Again, we discussed it and why that was wrong/ignorant. We've discussed discrimination, hate, & slavery as we cover Old Testament Bible stories.

 

We didn't specifically focus on MLK for the holiday but she watched a Brainpop about him. Because she's learned about history and various groups discriminating against each other for many centuries when she was introduced to the topic it didn't seem like it was just a problem for dark skinned people. It was just another instance of one people group disliking another for no good reason. I think how/when material is presented along with the attitude of the parents and/or teachers presenting it makes a big difference. If your skin is dark, you haven't learned a lot about history and you go to a pre-k program where graphic details are presented about the civil rights movement I can see how it would be quite disturbing. If it were me I would leave the lesson worried that those things were going to happen to me since in pre-k kids don't have a good sense of time and have no idea how long ago these things happened.

[acurtis75]

Of course they noticed - what I mean is when I say they don't notice is that it was just a non-issue. It just "was". It wasn't until DS1 had a lesson in school that he started talking about it and asking questions and becoming noticeably conscious about it.

 

 

There is a difference between noticing color and noticing racism. My daughter refers to people's skin tone as apricot (because that's the name of the crayon closest to muslin tone she says), peanut butter, chocolate, etc. Until we influence them with cultural stereo-types most children notice color as just another thing that's different...like hair color, eye color, etc.

[LucyStoner]

I don't think it is a function of the MLK curriculum. It sounds like they picked up a very dominant cultural value and on what their classmate was saying.

 

My brother is black and his wife is Puerto Rican - their kids have very kinky hair and are lighter skinned. Many times, my SIL has commented that it is lucky that their kids have "good skin" but too bad they have "bad hair". My brother has refused to let anyone braid his daughter's hair because that would look "too black." My niece and nephews are gorgeous. There is nothing wrong with their hair or skin. While very sad, these opinions on preferred hair and skin are not uncommon or unique to my brother and SIL. Nor did my brother learn this stuff at home- he mostly absorbed it from the surrounding culture. How often do you see a famous woman who is black with straightened or fake hair? More often than not. When we see black models and actors, lighter skinned people are more commonly represented and this is most common for women.

 

Internalized racism is a big factor in these skin and hair opinions.

 

Our culture surrounds people with images that subtly, not so subtly and by omission indicate that the preferred and most attractive skin color is light. This is just one way that racism is still alive and well.

 

Interesting article on this topic: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/04/racism-skin-colour-shades-prejudice

Edited January 21, 2012 by kijipt

[SKL]

This thread is starting to get me depressed for my girls. Why should they feel ugly at age 5? When and how will they learn to feel carefree and beautiful again? I knew this was going to be an issue at some point, but now that it's hitting, I wonder how much ability I have to counter it.

[JustGin]

My KG dds are brown-skinned. They have attended preschool for 2.5 years with diverse classmates. This is the first year they had a formal MLK lesson. First they came home talking about how black kids used to have to go to different schools from white kids, etc. Then they started on a trend of commenting how they want lighter skin, isn't my skin lighter than Sister's, A's is darker than mine so she's yucky.

 

I have heard that other similar-aged brown-skinned kids have had similar reactions right after MLK day.

 

Those of you with nonwhite children - do you notice this? Do you think it's because kids this young don't get the point that adults did IGNORANT things to blacks because racism is IGNORANT? That's what I think. They get that society did ABC and they get that ABC was sucky for black people. But they don't get that ABC was based on foolishness - after all, it was done by the adults in charge. Am I making any sense?

 

Racism is certainly alive and well in America, but I don't think it does our kids any good to tell them at age 5/6 that for most of history, our whole country believed darker skin meant bad people. I think they can get the point of the lesson when they are several years older. Meanwhile, each family can address racial issues as they see fit (my kids and I have had many discussions about racism and slavery that didn't leave them feeling ugly or undesireable).

 

Any other views from parents of nonwhite kids?

 

I am strongly opposed to stripping children of innocence under the guise of education. One thing I'm very, very thankful for is that we were able to introduce our children to difficult subjects on our own timetable, and to deal with difficult issues as they came up, in a manner that worked best for us.

 

My oldest dd did go through an identity stage regarding her lovely brown skin, but in our case it had nothing to do with MLK Day or anything like that. At about 2.5 or 3 that she decided she wanted to be "pink". At that age I realized it was about identifying with her daddy and I who are white, and not from any self hatred or from picking up on devaluing messages. We had some great talks about skin color and God's wonderful creative variety, and I intentionally looked for ways to acknowledge the beauty in people of color we saw IRL and on tv. I educated her age appropriately on skin biology so one of her first big girl words was melanin (only she called it lemon-in :001_smile:) She grew out of it. Racism didn't come up until she was about 7 and got very interested in Civil Rights after watching a movie on the Selma March at which age I was able to have a different level of conversation with her.

[dragons in the flower bed]

This thread is starting to get me depressed for my girls. Why should they feel ugly at age 5? When and how will they learn to feel carefree and beautiful again? I knew this was going to be an issue at some point, but now that it's hitting, I wonder how much ability I have to counter it.

 

The book Why Are All the Black Kids Sitting Together at the Cafeteria? is a brilliant study of the development of identity in children of color. Please read it. I wish everyone would.

[LMA]

I am not white. As a child I was picked on by other non-white children because I was not of the same ethnicity as them. Racism is a two way street.

[eternalknot]

 

My oldest dd did go through an identity stage regarding her lovely brown skin, but in our case it had nothing to do with MLK Day or anything like that. At about 2.5 or 3 that she decided she wanted to be "pink". At that age I realized it was about identifying with her daddy and I who are white, and not from any self hatred or from picking up on devaluing messages. We had some great talks about skin color and God's wonderful creative variety, and I intentionally looked for ways to acknowledge the beauty in people of color we saw IRL and on tv. I educated her age appropriately on skin biology so one of her first big girl words was melanin (only she called it lemon-in :001_smile:) She grew out of it. Racism didn't come up until she was about 7 and got very interested in Civil Rights after watching a movie on the Selma March at which age I was able to have a different level of conversation with her.

 

 

:iagree: I'm not white, and my siblings and I all have varying shades of skin color. We have one parent that has lighter skin, and another parent who is markedly more tan. Every one of my sisters has gone through periods of identifying more with one parent or the other; sometimes longing to be that parent's skin color and sometimes being happy she wasn't. And it's not limited to skin: hair color/texture, height, other features, etc.

 

 

It's about finding and discerning one's physical identity, and it's a very natural and appropriate stage of development in younger children. I think well-intentioned adults sometimes assign too much of their culture's social and historical biases to these things, rather than seeing them as natural stages of development common to most children.

 

 

Kids want to look like the people they identify with. For young kids, this would be parents. For kids being read to a story of MLK, it'd be who they "match" in the story. My (white) friend's straight-haired 1st grader is always begging to curl her hair so it'll be curly like her mom's (natural) hair. This same little girl used to take markers and dot her face with "freckles" just like her mom and big sisters had. Some people spend their lives trying to be something they're not, but some people eventually come to terms with who they are (maybe even who they're seen to be); everyone goes through the stage of finding one's own identity by first comparing themselves to others .. and working through that, in differing ways and to different levels.

 

There's always a trigger; maybe something a family member said, or a blurb they hear on the news, ... perhaps something like a lesson on MLK Day. However it comes about, the trigger is nothing more than that: triggering open expression of differences a child has already noticed or given thought to. It's not sad, it's an opportunity to influence how a child can/will internalize and navigate inevitable roads. It's actually wonderful in that the child has a segue to communicate things he has already -or will soon- experience and notice himself, if only on a subconscious social level.

[acurtis75]

This thread is starting to get me depressed for my girls. Why should they feel ugly at age 5? When and how will they learn to feel carefree and beautiful again? I knew this was going to be an issue at some point, but now that it's hitting, I wonder how much ability I have to counter it.

 

Don't be depressed. Children are resilient as long as you don't dwell on the issue and continue to tell them they are beautiful your voice will be louder than the occasional outside voice. My daughter went through a phase where she wanted bling straight hair after watching Tangled. We talked a lot about how everyone is different and blond isn't better than brown, etc but the bottom line was she wanted to be like a character she liked. A few weeks later she was wishing she was a pirate. Do your best not to be overly focused on racism in America vs discrimination in general throughout history and it will help them stay grounded.

[acurtis75]

I am not white. As a child I was picked on by other non-white children because I was not of the same ethnicity as them. Racism is a two way street.

:iagree: this is why learning about discrimination in a historical context when children are of the appropriate age is more beneficial than just doing MLK lessons out of context. This is not an American issue or even a black/white issue. There are plenty of light skinned people in the world who discriminate against other light skinned people and medium toned skin people groups who discriminate against other medium toned skin, etc. When young children are taught about discrimination from a narrow American only viewpoint it makes it seem like they are the only people in the world who are mistreated and leads to an inappropriate us vs them mentality.

[silliness7]

I think its best to be frank and open and I dont think "we are all humans and it doesnt matter" is a real good answer to any kids questions bc its pretty obvious to any child of color who has had a negative experience (and its fairly common to have one pretty early in life- like my friend's beautiful brown boy who was told on a playground at age 3 that his skin was like poop) that it DOES matter at least to some people.

 

 

.

 

The pp didn't say it didn't matter. You added that and I think it was unfair. I think the discussion got crazily complicated when the kid said her mom was white. So what do you do when white man is the bad guy in the story but momma is a white guy? Is momma a bad guy? Nobody said it didn't matter. They said it was COMPLICATED. And the pp's example of the bi-racial kid was a very pointed example of just how complicated it can be.

[TranquilMind]

Why in the world did they do this?! I don't think it's necessary to put your son in the postion of 'playing' a slave trader. That's unnecessary. I wouldn't have let my son participate.

 

I disagree. They did it because it made sense. It would be hard to have another black kid playing the slave trader of black kids. It just wouldn't visually make sense.

 

In the movies, you don't have black people playing Klan members just so we all look colorblind. It doesn't make any sense. In "The Help", the maids weren't white.

 

I think it is a powerful lesson for her son to be a part of this. One that he won't soon forget.

[Sputterduck]

OMGosh. I totally agree. Nobody needs to be telling my son that his skin color means/has meant anything at his age.

 

He learn. I'll teach him when it's appropriate for him, in a way that is appropriate for him.

[K-FL]

Then they started on a trend of commenting how they want lighter skin, isn't my skin lighter than Sister's, A's is darker than mine so she's yucky.

 

 

Have you read Clarence Thomas's book? He talks about how some of the worst racism he's faced has been from other blacks who looked down on him because of his more African features & dark skin.

 

 

BTW-it's an excellent book! Great example how hard work & discipline matter. It's also another look into the south of the '60s.

[Sputterduck]

I think its best to be frank and open and I dont think "we are all humans and it doesnt matter" is a real good answer to any kids questions bc its pretty obvious to any child of color who has had a negative experience (and its fairly common to have one pretty early in life- like my friend's beautiful brown boy who was told on a playground at age 3 that his skin was like poop) that it DOES matter at least to some people.

 

 

I think most of the problems come in when adults are uncomfortable talking to kids about race and racism and skin color. I think its a far more valuable skill to learn to say matter of factly to a child that some people DO value lighter skin over darker skin and some people DO make judgements on people based on skin color and these people are ignorant of what really matters to "me" (the teacher/parent), which is how you act and who you are inside and what you choose to do and be.

 

The fact is that light skin is seen still as more attractive and more valuable than dark skin, and this is perpetuated by almost every community- both the Hollywood film industry for example and by some within the AA community.

 

I dont think shying away from Dr King's message or not teaching about our culture of racism out of fear is a good plan.

 

Also children pick up on this stuff MUCH earlier than you think and if you put off discussion all you will do is encourage them to think this is a taboo topic which is uncomfortable and we'll all be stuck with another generation of people who are afraid to face racial issues and tensions head on.

 

 

I think people are even less comfortable with dealing with this subject matter than they are with sex, in some ways.

 

My son hasn't ever has a bad experience due to his skin color, yet. He's 7. He was 6 when he first noticed that he and I have different color skin. I said something like, "Yeah, just like we have different color hair."

 

If it's not an issue, I don't want him told the wrong way by a well-meaning person when he is young enough to internalize it. The internalizing of the idea that he is less because of his skin would be a tragedy. Giving him the message that lots of people think and have thought throughout history that you are less because of your skin is a bad, bad thing when a child is too young to process that correctly. When he is old enough to slough it off and say, "Well, that's idiotic." then that is the right time.

 

This is how I'll teach him in a nutshell-

Sputter - "You know what's really stupid?"

Tiny Sputter - "What?"

Sputter - "People judging other for really stupid things."

Tiny Sputter - "Yeah."

Sputter - "Some people even judge people for completely meaningless superficial things. Like skin color, example. Isn't that ridiculous?"

Tiny Sputter - "Really? That's not nice!"

Sputter - "And during the Great Famine, in some places the English would feed the Irish if they made their last name more English, but not if they kept the O' or the Mac on their name. How stupid is that? Disliking people because of their last name? Idiotic."

Tiny Sputter - "Why do some people do that?"

Sputter - "I think some people do that just because that's how they were taught. Some people do it because they have anger problems in their heart. Some people just don't know better. We can love them anyway, right?"

Tiny Sputter - "Of course we can!"

 

I've known a few parents to emphasize racial issues far too much far too early. I've seen it cause serious damage to their children. When someone doesn't like them, when something goes wrong etc. it's always "It's because of my skin." to the poor children. It's truly horrifying. Normal childhood drama is suddenly a racial issue. Awful. For these children, race is *always* on their minds. They are always worried about someone's weird facial expression. "Do they not like me because I'm ______?" Maybe the person just had to fart. Maybe they have a headache or are in a bad mood. I want my child to have peace of mind and not always be wondering. It can turn into a constant worry or a constant thing that they worry they will have to deal with in any social situation. It's *not* healthy.

 

And my exH used to be like that. In high school, he was fired from a job and his take? It was because he was Korean. Then he told me about his Korean friend at that job. I asked him whether the people who didn't like him at that job like the other Korean guy. He said they liked him a lot. So, I kindly pointed out that his being fired probably had nothing do with his race, and probably had a lot to do with his performance. :glare: After a couple instances like that, it was like a lightbulb going off in his head. Bad things aren't always about his race. But he genuinely thought they were.

 

If I tell my son past the age of internalizing these things so readily, he'll already know that people do stupid things, have stupid ideas, and sometimes act in a generally stupid manner. It's part of life. Move on, roll your eyes, and know that racism is a problem on the part of the racist. It has nothing to do with someone being a certain race. God gave us variety, and yay for that!

 

If you think racism is bad in America, try Mexico. There is little (maybe no) cultural stigma to judging people based on race. Every week I hear a new one. Did you know that Filipinos are money-grubbers? I wanted to ask, "Have you ever met someone from the Philippines??" :001_huh: Also, just 3 days ago I was giving a guy a ride and when someone slammed on their brakes he called the driver a Oaxacan. :001_huh: When my friend's dog was growling the neighbor called him a Sinaloan. :001_huh: The taco stand lady told me recently that all Koreans are mean. I could go on and on and on.

 

I know my son. When it's the right time to teach him, he will laugh his head off over the ludicrousness of judging people based on something so meaningless.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Sputterduck

[Mabelen]

i don't have time to read all responses. I am white, but my girls are mixed race. I can't say we had any negative reactions whatsoever to MLK day so far, they are now 15 and 7, so gone through a few already! We have always discussed color at home since dh and me are different colors and even our girls are different shades from each other. They realize that humans do and have done many a bad thing and you need to be alert and fight injustice. I think that is the message that MLK day is for my kids, no trauma or bad side effects.

[Sputterduck]

you are naive if you think kids do not notice color. They are not little Stephen Colberts. LOL

 

Everyone does eventually but at widely different ages. My son was 6 when he noticed we are different. My response was not a huge discussion that would make it a big deal to him. My response was a shrug and "Yeah like we have different color hair." Why? Because he needs to know that it doesn't matter. That skin color just is, and who cares anyway? Once he internalizes THAT, then we can talk about idiots who think it matters.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Sputterduck

[zaichiki]

I disagree. They did it because it made sense. It would be hard to have another black kid playing the slave trader of black kids. It just wouldn't visually make sense.

 

In the movies, you don't have black people playing Klan members just so we all look colorblind. It doesn't make any sense. In "The Help", the maids weren't white.

 

I think it is a powerful lesson for her son to be a part of this. One that he won't soon forget.

 

I disagree. Historically, there have been many black slave traders (think about between tribes, think about how some of the slaves ended up on the boats). This has to be mentioned, too.

 

I know nothing about the KKK or the Help, but I do know that there *are* white maids.

 

I wouldn't want my child to be chosen to play the slave or the slave trader based on their skin color. My own children have European heritage, but their ancestors weren't involved in slavery (owning or selling or anything else) of people of other skin colors in any way, shape, or form. (They were living in countries where slavery of Africans and those of African heritage wasn't happening.)

 

I wouldn't want my child to feel personal guilt related to American slavery. I wouldn't want a child of African heritage to feel hostility towards my child b/c he/she is being put "on stage" as the oppressor. That's giving all the children the wrong message.

 

If you have to role play slaves and slave traders, put the words on some cards and have the kids choose randomly. Make sure the kids get to try on EACH role.

[Kathryn]

We don't "do" the random days and months (President's Day, MLK Day, Women's History Month, etc.). We cover topics/people when we come to them in history so that they will be discussed in context.

 

That said, I'm fascinated by all of the research that suggests that white liberal parents are failing their children by not discussing race in an attempt to create colorblindness. there was a lot in the media in September 2009 when another study came out. You can google racist babies to find them. Here's an article i just found that cites a lot of what I recall reading: http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2009/09/04/see-baby-discriminate.html

[MamaT]

I am white, one of my daughters is AA and the other is mixed. My girls are old enough that we have discussed this issue pretty much in depth. I'm sorry to say that we have had to deal with some racist people IRL - a little girl down the street, some kids at the park and pool, and some family members. They have been very mature and gracious and recognized the ignorance behind it. They handle it much better than their brothers who are profoundly offended on their behalf.

 

We celebrate MLK day, listen to the "I Have a Dream" speech, and read/talk about him every year. As one of my girls said to me, "If it wasn't for him and the brave people who fought for civil rights alongside of him, you probably wouldn't have gotten to be my mommy."

[SKL]

Yeah but people here tend to be more conservative (homeschoolers) so I'm interested that they too think ignoring/ procrastinating on discussion is a good plan.

 

We're talking about postponing some of the bad stuff until our kids are mature enough to not internalize it.

 

There are plenty of things we can discuss about race without getting into black vs. white schools, whites-only water fountains, bus-riders going to jail for being black and tired, and MLK being shot after having the nerve to "have a dream."

 

Basically I feel that the MLK lesson put little kids of color on the defensive, and that ain't right. Whoever designs these lessons should be aware of this effect.

[SKL]

I think I'm going to go ask my kids' teacher exactly what she told them in the MLK lesson. Did they listen to the I have a Dream speech and learn of good stuff that came of it, or just hear the bad stuff? I think it will help me to counter the negativity.

[deacongirl]

I think its best to be frank and open and I dont think "we are all humans and it doesnt matter" is a real good answer to any kids questions bc its pretty obvious to any child of color who has had a negative experience (and its fairly common to have one pretty early in life- like my friend's beautiful brown boy who was told on a playground at age 3 that his skin was like poop) that it DOES matter at least to some people.

 

 

I think most of the problems come in when adults are uncomfortable talking to kids about race and racism and skin color. I think its a far more valuable skill to learn to say matter of factly to a child that some people DO value lighter skin over darker skin and some people DO make judgements on people based on skin color and these people are ignorant of what really matters to "me" (the teacher/parent), which is how you act and who you are inside and what you choose to do and be.

 

The fact is that light skin is seen still as more attractive and more valuable than dark skin, and this is perpetuated by almost every community- both the Hollywood film industry for example and by some within the AA community.

 

I dont think shying away from Dr King's message or not teaching about our culture of racism out of fear is a good plan.

 

Also children pick up on this stuff MUCH earlier than you think and if you put off discussion all you will do is encourage them to think this is a taboo topic which is uncomfortable and we'll all be stuck with another generation of people who are afraid to face racial issues and tensions head on.

 

 

I think people are even less comfortable with dealing with this subject matter than they are with sex, in some ways.

 

:iagree::iagree:

This is what what I would have said if were more articulate about the issue!

[deacongirl]

When my Vietnamese daughter was only 3, (and unfortunately living in an extremely non-diverse environment) while looking at the AG catalog with big sis., she pointed to the Addy doll and said, "I don't like her. She has dark skin. She is ugly." Other daughter said, "No, she is beautiful and unique and God made us all different colors and that is what makes the world great and it is good to be different etc. etc." Younger dd said, "I don't want to be different, I want to be the same." Nobody emphasized race to the kid--she came up with this all on her own from observing what was around her. We know judging people on skin color is meaningless but that doesn't change the experiences of those who are judged and treated negatively due to racism.