Anyone else's nonwhite kids have a negative reaction to MLK lessons?

[LibraryLover]

True, but racial issues here are quite different to America's situation, though some sectors of the population seem to be trying to change that. As if training our population to have both Australian and American racial hangups will help us reach enlightenment. :glare:

 

Rosie

 

I think good people everywhere seem to be trying to change. I'm not interested in training Americans to have even more hangups, Aussie or European, at this point. We have enough of our own without adding to it, and some of us are working pretty hard to change past racism. Perfect intergration? Hell no. I'd never even suggest such a thing at this point in time. But overall, not so bad compared to most other nations. Poverty is our issue. If we could get past the 'bootstraps' /Christ Likes Us The Best mentality here, we would beyond amazing. If every person in the US had equitable health care (this is an issue of poverty even moreso than race), we'd get to stop being the big rich doofus of the world. ;) If schools here stopped being funded by real estate taxes, who knows how awesome we could be. ;) :)

Edited January 23, 2012 by LibraryLover

[Rosie_0801]

I'm not interested in training Americans to have even more hangups, Aussie or European, at this point.

 

It's interesting. From my perspective, I can't even imagine how it would be possible to train Americans to have anyone else's racial hang ups, yet it looks to me like Australians are being trained (in the name of education and enlightenment) to develop American racial hangups.

 

We have enough of our own without adding to it, and some of us are working pretty hard to change past racism.

 

I wonder if that is even possible. Racism is very human. I wonder how large a group you can build before that general trend overrides individuals lack of racism. Did that sentence make any sense? I'm not sure if I'm expressing what I mean or if I'm just making a mess.

 

Rosie

[LibraryLover]

It's interesting. From my perspective, I can't even imagine how it would be possible to train Americans to have anyone else's racial hang ups, yet it looks to me like Australians are being trained (in the name of education and enlightenment) to develop American racial hangups.

 

Rosie

 

Those are vast and varied, so I am not sure exactly what you mean. Why would Aussies need to take on 'American racial hangups'? The bigotry towards indigenious Austraiians runs deep, and it's because of colonialsim more than anything. That's true here of native peoples as well. Thanks, UK. ;)

 

It's not so much about race here as poverty and competition. People get upset about folks from other countries taking jobs and such, and that sadly, includes affirmative action. The wish some Americans have to put an armed wall/ fence between us and Mexico, for instance, is more about economics than it is about race.

Edited January 23, 2012 by LibraryLover

[Rosie_0801]

Those are vast and varied, so I am not sure exactly what you mean. It's not so much about race here as poverty and competition. People get upset about folks from other countries taking jobs and such. The wish some Americans have to put an armed wall/ fence between us and Mexico, for instance, is more about economics than it is about race.

 

I wouldn't like to even try to outline this on a public forum :eek::) Let's just say I have heard a variety of perspectives because I listen even more than I talk. :tongue_smilie:

 

Rosie

[LibraryLover]

I wouldn't like to even try to outline this on a public forum :eek::) Let's just say I have heard a variety of perspectives because I listen even more than I talk. :tongue_smilie:

 

Rosie

 

 

OK. You can type it. ;) I can take it. I have no illusions of human beings getting this right anytime soon. I do think color matters a great deal. I would never say it does not. However, wealth often triumphs race here.

Edited January 23, 2012 by LibraryLover

[Sneezyone]

My KG dds are brown-skinned. They have attended preschool for 2.5 years with diverse classmates. This is the first year they had a formal MLK lesson. First they came home talking about how black kids used to have to go to different schools from white kids, etc. Then they started on a trend of commenting how they want lighter skin, isn't my skin lighter than Sister's, A's is darker than mine so she's yucky.

 

I have heard that other similar-aged brown-skinned kids have had similar reactions right after MLK day.

 

Those of you with nonwhite children - do you notice this? Do you think it's because kids this young don't get the point that adults did IGNORANT things to blacks because racism is IGNORANT? That's what I think. They get that society did ABC and they get that ABC was sucky for black people. But they don't get that ABC was based on foolishness - after all, it was done by the adults in charge. Am I making any sense?

 

Racism is certainly alive and well in America, but I don't think it does our kids any good to tell them at age 5/6 that for most of history, our whole country believed darker skin meant bad people. I think they can get the point of the lesson when they are several years older. Meanwhile, each family can address racial issues as they see fit (my kids and I have had many discussions about racism and slavery that didn't leave them feeling ugly or undesireable).

 

Any other views from parents of nonwhite kids?

 

Back on topic...

I always hated these lessons as a kid and my DD hates them now. She, as I did, attends a school with minmal ethnic diversity. Ironically, we had less of an issue with this when we lived in the South than we do now in the PacNorWest.

 

IMHO, the issue isn't that kids can't put racism and prejudice it in context. With appropriate instruction, they can and do. Now, for example, might be a good time to get the kids to think about why they assume the only black boy in my DD's first grade class has to be DD's boyfriend! I think the issue is that adults try to give these kids a lifetime's worth of history and background during one month of the year! Black history is year round in our house so by the time these lessons come 'round at school my kid is like, "Duh!" and gets sick of being called on to offer information or insight. All heads swivel to her as she's asked to explain how she feels about things. Not cool.

 

I also have a major issue with black history being reduced to MLK and Rosa Parks but that's an issue for another day.

[NASDAQ]

A number of people are discussing wanting something deeper for the history of Black Americans.

 

Just throwing it out there that I have heard excellent things about the anthology from Core Knowledge, Grace Abounding: http://www.coreknowledge.org/grace-abounding-anthology

 

I have not used it, although I've used other things from Core Knowledge. But as I said, I've heard from people with an interest in this area that it is an excellent treatment of the subject.

[AndyJoy]

Also, it's better that my child have his most formative years without this issue. Why? Because then that will be the world he comes from. That will be the ideal he is set up and used to living in. That will be his default. Innocence is a *good* thing. There will be a time when his heart and thinking are further solidified that I will tell him that there are shockingly idiotic people out there who may judge him on many different things, skin color included. Little, little kids don't need that in their tiny little hearts. Now, if someone's family is making nasty racist comment in front of then, then it needs to be handled early.

 

:iagree:

 

It's such a balancing act to find the right time to introduce things in an age-appropriate way, isn't it? I think my parents did a good job of it with me, and I hope I'll be as wise when it comes to my son.

 

My parents did not bring up issues of racism with me when I was young. Instead, they taught me what rudeness, meanness, and cruelty looked like and wouldn't tolerate them toward anyone. Since we didn't encounter racism in our daily lives, they decided to hold off with any big discussions about it until it was something I would have a frame of reference for. I'm sure that they made gentle comments here and there that were intended to steer me right, but they never said anything overt that made me know that people cared what other people's skin looked like.

 

When I was 5, a 100-member choir visited our church. I commented to my mother, "That one lady looks different." My mom said, "Oh?" and then quickly started formulating a response in her head, expecting me to point out the one black woman. She didn't have to use it, as I added, "That lady is wearing a hat!"

 

My best friend in first grade at a DOD school in Japan was Aeisha, and she was black. We sat played together at recess, walked to Brownies together, and begged to be in the same groups whenever possible. At the time, I had no inkling that her looks might mean anything different to anyone else than it did to me--that she had beautiful skin and really fun hairstyles. I think knowing about racism at that innocent time in my life would have unnecessarily complicated things. Would it have made me defend her from random childhood slights or injustices that I decided were race based? Would it have made me feel unnecessarily defensive on her behalf? I think these are very real possibilities given my personality.

 

From the time I was very young, I was always the friend of the underdog and was the "justice police." In first grade, a boy yelled out, "Raise your hand if you don't like Robert!" (the squirrely boy who pestered us all) and I was the only one who didn't (though I didn't like him either:tongue_smilie:). When the neighborhood bully (10-year-old Michelle) picked on little kids, I was the feisty 7-year-old who got her to back off. When I discovered that two girls in my 5th grade grade class were "outcasts" (one for her looks and one for her "boyish" demeanor) I befriended them. I got between my friend Rachel and the boy who was calling her filthy names, deflected his punch aimed for my nose, and slapped him in the face. I was rejected in jr. high and high school for defending outcasts. Aeisha didn't become my friend because I thought she needed defending, but if she'd needed it, I would have! I'm glad I was her friend simply because I met her and liked her, not because I thought she would need my help.

 

I didn't know about racism until I was 9 when I first encountered it, but that didn't stop me from recognizing it and rejecting it. I was taking skiing lessons for the first time. The instructor told us to pair up for the ski lift. I overheard several girls saying, "Hurry, come with me! I don't want to ride with her!" and I saw them point at a black girl. I said, "Why not?" assuming they knew her and she was mean or annoying or something. "Because she's black, of course!" I was puzzled. This simply did not compute in my world. I looked at the girl and saw she was trying not to cry. I was incredulous and told the nasty girls, "What? You don't even know her? You're being mean! I want to ride with her because I don't want to ride with any of you!" I walked up to the girl, asked her to be my partner, and hung out with her the rest of the day while glaring at the mean girls whenever I got a chance.

 

I don't know exactly when or how I will teach my son about racism, but I'm certainly thinking about it and looking for "teachable moments." I think a thoughtful, intentional parent can do a good job of discerning when the time is right to introduce hard topics to their child's peaceful world. I don't think it is wrong or foolish that different parents will teach their children about racism, the Holocaust, abortion, s*x, euthanasia, domestic abuse, human trafficking, war, death, abandonment, or even Santa and the Tooth Fairy on their own timetables. I'd like to think that parents can be in touch with their kids' minds and hearts and make some decisions about when it is best to bring things up. Otherwise, we rebel homeschoolers should support a national curriculum and put our kids in their age-appropriate grades in school so the government could teach them everything on a developmentally appropriate timetable.;)

Edited January 23, 2012 by AndyJoy

[Sneezyone]

A number of people are discussing wanting something deeper for the history of Black Americans.

 

Just throwing it out there that I have heard excellent things about the anthology from Core Knowledge, Grace Abounding: http://www.coreknowledge.org/grace-abounding-anthology

 

I have not used it, although I've used other things from Core Knowledge. But as I said, I've heard from people with an interest in this area that it is an excellent treatment of the subject.

 

Thanks for the link, NASDAQ. I just find it unfortunate that the history and contributions of non-Europeans are so often relegated to a separate, niche topic that one has to seek out. The Souls of Black Folk is just as relevant to discussions of British colonialism and immigration as it is to the history of black civil rights in the U.S. Certainly, the idea of walking in two worlds is universally compelling and applicable to all sorts of modern and historical situations.

 

At the very least, I wish schools would focus less on famous people, caricatures really, and more on the feelings, convictions, ideas that inspired them to act. I think that would have a lot more meaning for the elementary-age set.

 

ETA- I was looking through the materials (good stuff!) and saw Arturo Schomberg's name. I just got back from a trip to NYC three weeks ago where I visited the Schomberg Center in Harlem. They have several original writings and pieces of correspondence to/from Malcolm Shabazz on display (from his time in prison through the Hajj). Very cool!!

Edited January 23, 2012 by Sneezyone

[NASDAQ]

Thanks for the link, NASDAQ. I just find it unfortunate that the history and contributions of non-Europeans are so often relegated to a separate, niche topic that one has to seek out.

 

I find quite the opposite in the most modern texts. They seem to make a tremendous effort to find minorities and women, even when those people are not the most interesting or compelling of the age. And I don't think that any modern textbook leaves out black people or black history.

 

But I quite like history-by-great-personality and great events. I went to school after we'd all decided to teach children based on themes and motivations and "ordinary lives," and it was not compelling.

[Sneezyone]

I find quite the opposite in the most modern texts. They seem to make a tremendous effort to find minorities and women, even when those people are not the most interesting or compelling of the age. And I don't think that any modern textbook leaves out black people or black history.

 

But I quite like history-by-great-personality and great events. I went to school after we'd all decided to teach children based on themes and motivations and "ordinary lives," and it was not compelling.

 

Seriously? I guess I'll have to see as DD moves along because (and I'm only 35), that was not my experience at all, nor that of my 25 yo sister. To me, the best part of AP Euro History was seeing the waves of ideas move across Europe and back again. Sure, they were carried/championed by notable people but I typically found the ideas far more important than the messengers. YMMV...I digress.

 

It's not so much about leaving black history out of history anthologies either ( I certainly didn't say that), as it is the sidebar treatment-- an afterthought in any chapter other than civil rights and the civil war-- but the focus on the same tired group of notable persons. BTW-The fact that you're only aware of this resource because of those "who have an interest in that area" suggests that you weren't exposed to it in any classroom either or didn't see enough value in it to seek it out. Why is that? Maybe you are right and things have changed. Perhaps these materials are routinely shared with young people. I'm skeptical.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Sneezyone
typo and wanted to add...

[stripe]

I think the issue is that adults try to give these kids a lifetime's worth of history and background during one month of the year!

One day of the year, more like it, because talking about racism is something we can only poke at with our toes for one year, and that's to say, "We're all equal! Okay, back to whatever we were doing." I found NurtureShock: New Thinking About Children and Does Anybody Else Look Like Me?: A Parent's Guide To Raising Multiracial Children to be helpful, and they both advocate straight talk with kids.

 

Did I tell them, "Throughout human history, dark people have been oppressed!" No. I told them, "Some people might think people with dark skins should only be servants," after being asked about the "negro servant boy" in a Lang colored fairy story. I have had a few conversations about it, and I could not have delayed the concept any longer. The details have been delayed. I have only provided an outline of slavery. But I have not omitted it completely. What NurtureShock discusses so well is how completely avoiding discussion of race -- with the well-intentioned idea that all people have value -- is basically done by white parents because their children typically have less urgent need to confront racism straight on, at an early age. Then their kids end up utterly confused and NOT open minded. The authors make the point that these parents expend a lot of energy encouraging their children to accept the idea of women as scientists and men as warm, fuzzy daddies, and that same effort needs to be made with race.

I also have a major issue with black history being reduced to MLK and Rosa Parks but that's an issue for another day.

I cannot agree with you more. I was horrified by the number of kids who only were interested in reading about MLK/Rosa Parks/Ruby Bridges, and refused to consider anyone else. However laudable, they simply do NOT encapsulate the whole African American experience.

 

 

*Thanks for the tip about Core Knowledge. I'd never heard of it, and I like the inclusive of so many works of poetry, songs, and writings, but wow is it expensive!

[stripe]

My kids are jealous of the bi-racial kids that occasionally show up at our church. My girls LOVE the little girls' hair.

I mean this in the nicest way, honestly: there are many kinds of hair among biracial kids.

 

Before I had kids, someone made a comment about how my kids would look (I think she used the term "yellow," which really made me cringe), based on a couple who was ostensibly like me and my husband (matching in terms of countries of origin), except neither of them looked at all like us, and saying in a confident tone that my kids would look like theirs. Except they look NOTHING like their kids. Nothing. Nothing! And their hair is nothing like theirs!

[Kathryn]

Back on topic...

I always hated these lessons as a kid and my DD hates them now. She, as I did, attends a school with minmal ethnic diversity. Ironically, we had less of an issue with this when we lived in the South than we do now in the PacNorWest.

 

IMHO, the issue isn't that kids can't put racism and prejudice it in context. With appropriate instruction, they can and do. Now, for example, might be a good time to get the kids to think about why they assume the only black boy in my DD's first grade class has to be DD's boyfriend! I think the issue is that adults try to give these kids a lifetime's worth of history and background during one month of the year! Black history is year round in our house so by the time these lessons come 'round at school my kid is like, "Duh!" and gets sick of being called on to offer information or insight. All heads swivel to her as she's asked to explain how she feels about things. Not cool.

 

I also have a major issue with black history being reduced to MLK and Rosa Parks but that's an issue for another day.

 

Agree completely. I'm not sure why one would be offended that we don't relegate black history to a month or day proscribed by the government each year. We have many age appropriate conversations about race relations, gender, etc., as they come up in life and our readings throughout the year. I don't need to be told that I have to tell my children about MLK on the day that the government observes his birthday so they can get a day off of work.

[Dobela]

A number of people are discussing wanting something deeper for the history of Black Americans.

 

Just throwing it out there that I have heard excellent things about the anthology from Core Knowledge, Grace Abounding: http://www.coreknowledge.org/grace-abounding-anthology

 

I have not used it, although I've used other things from Core Knowledge. But as I said, I've heard from people with an interest in this area that it is an excellent treatment of the subject.

Blessed Heritage is a favorite of ours. While it was written by an African American mom, who is a homeschooling parent by the way, it covers history in a very balanced way. We love it.

[SunshineMom]

.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Lilypad2

[Mabelen]

My opinion regarding the timing is like that of other possibly delicate subjects, i.e., there is no better time than the the present. Having said that, you don't need to go all the way. It is better to do it bite size and often, especially in the early years.

[tuzor]

I have not read the entire thread but I am black homeschooling 3 boys. Truthfully racisim is part of the reason we are homeschooling. When my son was 4 in preschool he came home telling me that he wished he was white. Because if he were white he would be better:blink::blink::blink: He also stated that the kids were calling him black ninja. Prior to him feeling this way we never really discussed race. We have friends that are from various backgrounds and color was never really discussed prior too this in our house. But I had to share this information with his dad and we had to remind him that God created us perfect in his image. We don't need to be anything other that what we are because we are perfect as is.

 

Around this time I was also paying more attention to many of people I was in contact with at the time. (During this time I worked part time at a salon.) One of the stylist in the salon have several customers coming in complaining about being black. They were all stumped about their teenage daughters having self esteem issues. They would only want to wear their hair a certain way, wear certain clothes, etc. This is common for many teens but this is a very common problem in the area where I live.

 

There are not many minorities in the area. There are a lot more now than were here nine years ago when we moved here. But it is not uncommon for black students in this area to not have any other students that look like them in a class or any teachers that look like them. Children can be mean and adolescense, teen years have enough worries. I was not willing to subject my three black boys to an environment that would give them a complex. As a homeschool mom I feel that it is my job to raise three strong black men that are secure in themselves, strong in their faith and can be responsible productive members that bless whatever society they enter. The world will beat them up, media will tell them they are nothing but thugs, and if they are around a bunch of empty headed kids, their heads will be empty, filled with nonsense. Sorry I have looked at the statistics of minorites in public schools and I feel that my husband and I can do a far better job.

 

Having said that I have been disappointed with the lack of information provided in curriculum that teaches more about the contributions that African Americans have made to this country past and present. I found www.blessedheritage.com last year and I am incorporating but largely I am reasearching and adding resources to my collection.

 

I do discuss race and MLK in fact the month of Feburary we are doing an entire month on black history. My oldest has stated several times that he is happy he did not live during the time of segragation because he would not be able to play with his best friend who is white. I feel that tough topics need to be discussed because they are teachable moments.

 

(I'll stop now, I think I'm rambling.)

[stripe]

A number of people are discussing wanting something deeper for the history of Black Americans.

 

Just throwing it out there that I have heard excellent things about the anthology from Core Knowledge, Grace Abounding: http://www.coreknowledge.org/grace-abounding-anthology

 

I have not used it, although I've used other things from Core Knowledge. But as I said, I've heard from people with an interest in this area that it is an excellent treatment of the subject.

Just wanted to report in that there are a couple stores selling multiple copies of this in "very good" condition, at Amazon, Alibris, and Abebooks. There are more than 20 available.