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At what age can my little girl go into the store and buy tortillas?


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By the time the manipulated, scared, threatened 7 year old is led out the door by the kidnapper, right by the security cameras and store workers, it's too late. I wouldn't let the fact that there are security cameras give me a false sense of security.

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I, personally, can't see myself letting this happen. My almost 6 year old doesn't get out of my sight in public. She's so... young.

But I also have a very sensitive child who I believe is vulnerable to being taken advantage of. She's shy, sometimes insecure, unsure of herself in social situations, and has recently experienced great upheavals in her life (including a move and the death of my father, who she was very close to). So, knowing my child, definitely not.

 

Even the most confident, self-assured 7 year old... IDK. I just think it's a little young. All kinds of things could happen to throw a kid off their game.

 

Any store I've ever been in has a back door for deliveries. You can't always count on an employee to be everywhere, and by the time anyone has realized that a child is missing, searched the store, and pulled out the surveillance tapes, identified and tracked down a suspect... it's often too late.

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My only concern is a well-meaning person calling the police. Obviously I don't think I would have them removed from my custody or anything but would prefer not to deal with the headache. So my question remains: At what age would this not happen?

 

If you feel totally comfortable sending her in, then by all means do it and don't ask US. We don't know your kid, the store, the environment... at all.

 

Did you only want to ask about the age that people would call the police for an unattended child? I have no idea about that. I've never called the police about an unattended child. The only place I've ever even seen an unattended child is when one was lost at a museum or a zoo (and it was obvious the child was distressed). How could anyone know at which age people would not call the police???

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Did you only want to ask about the age that people would call the police for an unattended child? I have no idea about that. I've never called the police about an unattended child. The only place I've ever even seen an unattended child is when one was lost at a museum or a zoo (and it was obvious the child was distressed). How could anyone know at which age people would not call the police???

 

Yes and good point!! :)

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I am confused and must not live in the same type of place, but, yes what could happen? Mom is in the car, it is a grocery store, and the child is comfortable. I don't understand the hesitation. Are the grocery stores where you guys live that are dangerous or have more than one door?

 

Yes, where we used to live. It was a Super Walmart, not that it makes any difference, but yes there were several violent incidents in the store and parking lot during the time we lived there.

 

Where we live now? Still wouldn't at 7, maybe 10 or 11 at a local store, not something as big as Walmart.

 

My ds was 12 before he even wanted to go off on his own in a store.

 

If I were going to do it, it would be during the day, but then again I'd be paranoid because there was an unattended child during the day. That would draw more attention.

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so if I get this right, the 7yo would be walking into a store she knows well. You would be in a car, just outside the main entrance, waiting for her?

I would have had no problem with it.

:iagree:

 

I let my dd do this at 7 or 8 at the health food store, which was a tenth the size of the grocery store. I parked in the space in front of the store and the store had only one door. She went in, picked out what she wanted on her own and paid for it. I think I got the idea from Protecting the Gift. I think there is a chapter about giving kids the opportunity to do things independently and looking for controlled environments to let them practice. I think a small store was a specific example, but it's been a while since I read the book.

 

I didn't do this at the local Safeway. If I had. I guess I would have gone into the store and stayed at the front of the store while dd picked out her item and went through the checkout.

That's a great idea. We have a little health food store like that, I should definitely work on something like that with my DD.

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For me it is not about ability, it is about safety. A little girl age 7 does not have the judgement a 17 year old does. She also does not have the strength should someone decide they want her. She also doesn't have the credibility. Have you ever watch those 20/20 specials where a child is yelling "Help, he is not my dad" while some guy is dragging the kid away? It is an example of how the public would react and they usually don't help because most figure the kid is just being naughty.

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I agree with those who said that kids need to develop the ability to operate independently from us. I agree with the pp who said it makes them feel able and confident. That's why my kids do *some* things on their own. I, too, like the idea of letting the kids go into a small health-food store. I think you REALLY just have to measure the child and the situation... and you'll know when it's right.

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I might do this, under certain conditions: if it were a small store and I could see where she was, if I were parked at the door, if it were a store I often frequent. I especially would, if I could stand in the doorway (while about 6 feet from my parked car with sleeping baby) and yell in "I'm sending DD in for the tortillas! Can you have my usual order ready? Thanks!!" But I would not send her into a huge supermarket alone, no.

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I would say that people wouldn't call the police when the child doesn't look like a young child LOL.

 

I have a friend who lives just up the road from the school her son attends (it's a mile, tops). I said, "Oh, he can walk home then," and she said she doesn't let him, because he's very short for his age and she thinks people would see this "young" child and think he's too young to be unattended and call the police.

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Additional information:

 

It's a large, nice HEB store. We know most of the employees by sight and several by name. I live in a town of 55,000. The tortilleria is near the front of the store, so she would probably be walking a total of 50 yards or so out of my line of sight.

 

I'm certainly aware that a predator could kidnap her and spirit her through a service entrance, but the likelihood is small enough that I would consider it negligible. I do allow my children to play outside unattended (while checking every 10-15 minutes) and someone could also kidnap them there.

 

I live in Texas where there is no specific age at which you can leave them unattended. You can be ticketed or arrested for leaving a child younger than seven unattended in a car for more than five minutes.

 

My only concern is a well-meaning person calling the police. Obviously I don't think I would have them removed from my custody or anything but would prefer not to deal with the headache. So my question remains: At what age would this not happen?

 

 

 

Lol, what do you have against my city?

 

 

Should have read your city. I would have no problem in there and I know the Texas laws, can't leave my kids in the car so the alternative is to send them in for the one item if a younger is sleeping. Sometimes I do a buddy system like at Walmart but HEB is safe IMHO.

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The problem with most stores is that they also have rear entrances so trucks can make deliveries and/or for employees to use to get in and out of work, so I wouldn't assume my child was safe in a store just because I was near the front entrance.

 

This. Someone could grab her and take

her out the back entrance. And she's probably little at 7

so how can she fight?

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Did you only want to ask about the age that people would call the police for an unattended child? ... How could anyone know at which age people would not call the police???

 

I would think that if you have to wonder if people will call the police if you send your child into a store alone, your child is probably at an age where people will call the police if you send her into a store alone. ;)

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I think it depends entirely on your location. I allow my 7 year old to go in by herself to run errands (grab milk at the store, buy stamps at the post office, etc) when we are in my hometown (small town in New England). I do not allow her the same freedom when we are home (mid sized, mid atlantic city).

 

There is a different feeling and mentality here (home) regardless of the sheer size of the place and number of people. Sending a young child in to a store alone would definitely be frowned upon where in my hometown it is looked at as normal (kids are much more independent at an earlier age due to lifestyle there).

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Well.... as a child at day camp, and as an adult woman in a local small town, cozy bookstore, I have been publically "groped" by creepers. :tongue_smilie::tongue_smilie::tongue_smilie: In more severe situations, it only takes one jerk to change a life forever. Maybe our choices are partially shaped by our personal experiences as children? My choice was to not let my young children out of sight in public, or to be left alone with male babysitters, etc. A friend of mine, and a wonderful mother, did encourage the sort of "independence" like going into supermarkets alone. I really don't believe that I deprived my oldest (19) by being protective. She is a well adjusted, happily married young woman, working as a nurse. As she matured, she received more freedom of choice. ;) Not judging, just sharing our experience so far!

Edited by Cindy in the NH Woods
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What's the worst that can happen to them sitting in a car? You could all die. In fact, you're way more likely to there than in the store. What's the worst that could happen to them sitting the house? You could all die. In fact, again, more likely to die there than in the store. I don't live my life thinking that way. I don't want to. I see more benefits to giving my kids whatever responsibility they seem ready for. But, to each their own.

Yeah, exactly.

 

Something bad can always happen, in any situation. A fire might break, an earthquake might happen, the place where you are may turn into a crime scene, you may be walking in a peaceful street and get run over by a car, etc., etc.

The problem is, according to that logic, we are all better off not getting outside of our homes. And even inside those homes something might happen. I think such paranoia only hurts people and diminishes the quality of their life - of course that one is going to be cautious and teach their kids to be as street-smart as possible, but reasonable caution need not turn into a full blown paranoia. The chances are, the overwhelming chances are, the kid will be fine during those five minutes, especially with mother right there outside waiting for them. When I was seven not only was I entering a store alone, I was literally going to the neighborhood store alone (as in, exiting my home, getting into the street, walking until the end of street, crossing street, walking until the end of another street, getting into the store alone, buying what I needed to buy, and getting back home). And do not tell me that "the world was different back then". It was, but not that significantly as we tend to think, IMO. The place where I grew up has always been a dangerous one, since its inception until today - and back then there were not even cellphones or video surveillance in the stores. Of course, with my own kids I was more careful than that - but a situation like what you describe would be okay with me. You are there, the child knows the place and what to do, and the chances of something happening are miniscule anyway. The same chances that you are gambling with any time you drive in a car, for that matter.

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Additional information:

 

It's a large, nice HEB store. We know most of the employees by sight and several by name. I live in a town of 55,000. The tortilleria is near the front of the store, so she would probably be walking a total of 50 yards or so out of my line of sight.

 

I'm certainly aware that a predator could kidnap her and spirit her through a service entrance, but the likelihood is small enough that I would consider it negligible. I do allow my children to play outside unattended (while checking every 10-15 minutes) and someone could also kidnap them there.

 

I live in Texas where there is no specific age at which you can leave them unattended. You can be ticketed or arrested for leaving a child younger than seven unattended in a car for more than five minutes.

 

My only concern is a well-meaning person calling the police. Obviously I don't think I would have them removed from my custody or anything but would prefer not to deal with the headache. So my question remains: At what age would this not happen?

 

I just moved away from the city you live in three months ago, so I know the store you are referring to. I was never comfortable enough to let my 9 year old go in there alone. I do think he could handle going in and finding what is needed and paying. But my primary concern in stores like that is the unexpected, like being questioned by a well-meaning adult or lured into a restroom by a non-well-meaning predator. I think a seven year old and even a nine year old is too young to be put in that position.

 

On the other hand, I did let my son run into the corner store to pay for gas or buy milk and into Little Caesars to pay for and pick up a pizza. Of course, at both of those places I was able to park right out front and see him the entire time. I also let him bring prepaid packages into the post office on several different occasions.

 

I think at age 10-12, depending on how old the child looks and how mature they act, you'd be safe from having folks calll the police on them in the store alone.

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I would think that if you have to wonder if people will call the police if you send your child into a store alone, your child is probably at an age where people will call the police if you send her into a store alone. ;)

 

Heh. Good point. I didn't think of that. :001_smile:

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Something bad can always happen, in any situation. A fire might break, an earthquake might happen, the place where you are may turn into a crime scene, you may be walking in a peaceful street and get run over by a car, etc., etc.

 

But it's not about what could happen. You're right: anything could happen. Would she know how to handle it if it did happen? That's the concern. If the child can handle the unforseen in an appropriate way, then I'm all for it.

 

I feel confident that my 12 y.o. ds would respond the way an adult would respond in a fire, if approached by someone with suspicious behavior, in an earthquake, if there was an argument or a threat in the store...

 

In some ways my 9 y.o. dd is more responsible and more mature than her older brother, but I do not yet feel confident that she'd know how to handle herself in an unexpected emergency. Maybe in one more year... or two.

Edited by zaichiki
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But it's not about what could happen. You're right: anything could happen. Would she know how to handle it if it did happen? That's the concern. If the child can handle the unforseen in an appropriate way, then I'm all for it.

 

:iagree: Anything could happen. But... I believe that if a fire breaks out, or if the store I'm in turns into a crime scene, my young child will need her mother nearby to help her deal with the situation. Things are much scarier alone.

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Additional information:

 

It's a large, nice HEB store. We know most of the employees by sight and several by name. I live in a town of 55,000. The tortilleria is near the front of the store,

 

 

Lol, what do you have against my city?

 

Just that it's a fairly large city-kwim? Not Dallas or Austin large, but not a small town where everyone knows everybody either. And our tortilleria is near the back of our HEB, so that factored in to my decision too. Plus, there are usually two doors into and out of the grocery store. Now, if it were a small store llike the Albertosons we used to have, w/ only one door in and out, I might feel different. But as far as you getting into trouble for it, I highly doubt it. You know your dd and the store/area better than we do, and if you are comfortable w/ it, then let her. :D

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When the OP mentioned the size of the town and called it smallish I realized my idea of small and her's are different. 55,000 is like the suburb I grew up in, in those stores I would not let my kids go alone at that age. Where I live now is a village of 750 people. It is a teeny tiny town, like I said everyone knows everyone. As for crime, the biggest crimes in this town in the last 18 months that we have lived here were committed by my own ds within the first couple months after the move. My now 8 year old has gone to the post office to get the mail and to the library to pick up holds on his own, while I sayed home. Both are 1 street up. The grocery store is across the street from the library. If he could handle the transaction I would let him go too, but i don't trust him yet to get what I asked him to rather than a treat kwim. No one would bat an eye on him going in on his own like that, it is typical for this town. There is no daycare in town so kids are typically on their own everyday afterschool and then all day long everyday all summer starting at age 7-8. A kid running into the store to pick up an item is not unheard of. We know all the clerks and they know us. In our old city (murder capital of Canada) I would not let the kids go into a grocery store alone until they were 10-11. By 10-11 both big kids would walk or ride bikes to the convience store or go around the lake or to the library (20 minute walk away) with no worries. My biggest issue was the day my oldest fell through the ice on the lake, an off duty EMT and police officer were running nearby and pulled him out and brought him home. I never worried about the path around the lake because it was frequented by the army using it for PT, police, fire and emt's using it for exercise plus all the regular people out running, walking dogs etc.

 

When they first started going into stores on their own I would call ahead and just let them know that a child or 2 would be arriving sans parents with a list. The library they had to call me from the courtesy phone as soon as they got there or I would come and pick them up and they would lose the right to go. They would phone me when they were done to pick them up if they found a big stash of books to check out. At this library they take the rolling cart (we are second house from the corner, if I walk 50ft I can see the library).

 

At 7 I also let my kids go to the playground alone to see who was out playing. In my current location it is at the end of my street at the school. Seriously my whole town only has like 6 streets and 1 of them is main street the only one with businesses. Kids on their own wandering town or in the grocery store etc is no big deal. So out here no worries.

 

In a bigger town I have more concerns about somethings, and with somethings I allow them to do much more. They have had some bad stuff happen when they were out and knew what to do and how to handle it at the ages I let them go. At 7 I don't know that they would have been able to handle those things the way they did at 10-11. In that city I didn't allow them as much freedom so young.

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But it's not about what could happen. You're right: anything could happen. Would she know how to handle it if it did happen? That's the concern. If the child can handle the unforseen in an appropriate way, then I'm all for it.

I understand your concern and it is one of the criteria I consider when deciding on whether to allow my children to do something. :)

 

However, there are situations for which nobody can "prepare" you. I have no idea how can a seven year old could be "prepared" to find herself in midst of a crime scene - but I also have no idea how could *I* be "prepared" and whether *I*, an adult, would handle it appropriately in some of those unpredictable situations. And yet it is a possibility. But whenever it is not a "realistic" possibility (considering the surroundings), I am not sure that thinking this way aids much, other than making me paranoid.

Of course, the "tether" will be of different length depending on where you are and how old is the child, there are things you will allow in some places and not in others and to some children and not to others, and in any case better safe than sorry - that I certainly agree with, although I am a bit incredulous about some of the ages I am reading here. But possibly many of us live in very different places and have very different children too.

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But possibly many of us live in very different places and have very different children too.

 

And this is absolutely true. :001_smile:

Sometimes we get this variety in one family. (At least I have.)

I have lived, with children, in one of the largest cities in the world and in a teeny,tiny rural town and in places in between.

And my two oldest are very different from one another.

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I don't think most adults know how they would react in emergency situations so I don't know why we would hold kids to that criteria. I, along with other kids, ended up involved in an emergency situation when I was young and all of the adults/parents bailed except my mom. They all probably thought they would handle it better.

 

In my town and local store I would probably do it if I had to. I do let my dds go get things for me while we're shopping now and have never had a problem. We've had all of the talks about people (not just strangers) trying to lure away and being dishonest. I think they would be able to handle themselves well.

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When making decisions like this for our children, we base it not on if the child can handle the task on a normal day but if the child has the maturity to handle the situation if things don't go as planned.

 

Which, is, I think good advice. :) Some 7 yos would be okay, some would not. But I also believe in baby steps to help them get okay. Because it's fine if a 7 yo isn't ready to be alone in a shop. That's normal too. But a 12 who isn't... that's a problem in my opinion.

 

In my town they wouldn't bat an eye at that.

 

In mine as well. I think I might actually worry more if we lived in the suburbs, but around here it's quite common to see kids in the 5-8 range out alone in the neighborhood or with older sibs or cousins. No one would ever call CPS on them for that. I tutored for a little while in an afterschool program here and some of the kids got picked up, but a number of them - especially the 3rd and 4th graders - just walked home and left at the end.

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My oldest is seven going on seventeen and I have no doubt that she could execute every step of a simple transaction at the grocery store. She always picks out the tortillas for me and she has checked out several times under my supervision. She can count change and interact with checkers with no problems, and she would enjoy doing it alone.

 

At what age will someone not call CPS for sending her in unattended? I had a sleeping baby in the car this afternoon and was *this close* to attempting it.

Depends on the store and area.

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I think if it were safe you wouldn't need to ask. You'd have seen plenty of little ones coming and going on their own to know that it's accepted in your area and generally regarded as safe. If you've never seen that, it's not done and not generally regarded as safe.

 

We ran free when I was a kid, but the whole town did, as well. We were relatively safe because we were all on foot and on bike every day. Parents and people in the community were aware of the kids. It was just so normal. A child biking, walking, shopping, or playing was just part of the fabric of the life of the town.

 

Whether the crime drove the fear or the fear drove the crime, I don't know, but thirty years later things have changed. If you send your little one somewhere on her own now, in many communities, she's going to be the only kid on her own. That's dangerous. That's a target.

 

For those living in small and/or safe communities where children really do get out and about on their own before age 11 or so, that's a real blessing. I hope these changes don't come to your communities.

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I believe the risk of this happening in a grocery store without anyone reacting, in front of surveillance cameras that all stores are now equipped with, is so low as not to be worrisome. ...

 

I don't think so if it were done

out the back door--it would look like a parent dragging their

kid out. Nobody would worry or wonder, even if the kid

were crying. Until the bad guy was actually out the back

door.

 

Ladies:

 

Teach your kids to yell: "This is not my mother!

or This is not my father!"

if someone grabs them. Otherwise if they struggle they

just look like misbehaving kids with a suffering parent.

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I think it so depends on the child. However, generally, I don't think, considering EVERYTHING, that 7 is old enough. Double digit ages, almost no doubt. 8 or 9, maybe. But 7? nah.

 

Now that I'm thinking about it, I should HOPE that people generally wouldn't LET my 1st grader just walk out the door into a parking lot though. Hmmmmmm

Edited by 2J5M9K
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This is a tad OT but...

 

WHAT is a tortilleria? And is HEB a typical supermarket?

 

HEB is a TX based supermarket, like Krogers or any other large chain, only based in TX. A tortilleria is a place that makes tortillas. Some of the larger HEB's have a spot in the store where they make fresh tortillas daily.

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I would not. I'd be more inclined to leave my perfectly safe children in a locked car that is turned off (and not in the summertime, of course!) while I dash into the store myself than to send a 7yo in. However, I wouldn't do either.

 

I would say about 12, and that depends on how mature the child looks (my 13 yo looks closer to 18) and how comfortable the child is with doing it.

 

It is against the law where I live to leave your children in the car unattended while you run into the store. This is just as dangerous as letting a child go int a store unattended. Neither would I ever do.

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Guest submarines

Teach your kids to yell: "This is not my mother!

or This is not my father!"

if someone grabs them. Otherwise if they struggle they

just look like misbehaving kids with a suffering parent.

 

 

When I was 19, I was babysitting a 5 year old girl, and she did this to me regularly in public. All I had to do was to smile sweetly, shrug, and say, "I'm her babysitter." Fortunately for me, no one called the police on me, or is it unfortunately? :confused: It seems that nobody cares anymore.

 

I still tell my kids to do this, if ever taken by a stranger.

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My mother was a free-range parent to the Nth degree. I've never told her some of the very dangerous things that almost happened to me. Luck or God? I don't know what saved my life many times. It's because of my own personal experience that I am NOT a free-range parent.

 

This is 1 of the reasons why I'm so protective too! Personal experience. And also because of religious beliefs.

Edited by mamaofblessings
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My oldest is seven going on seventeen and I have no doubt that she could execute every step of a simple transaction at the grocery store. She always picks out the tortillas for me and she has checked out several times under my supervision. She can count change and interact with checkers with no problems, and she would enjoy doing it alone.

 

At what age will someone not call CPS for sending her in unattended? I had a sleeping baby in the car this afternoon and was *this close* to attempting it.

I wouldn't do it. I still remember when Adam Walsh, the son of "America's Most Wanted" Host John Walsh, was taken in a Sears. His mother was WITH him, but the boy went around the corner of the aisle to play some video games and was never seen again. He was decapitated by some nut job. He was 6 years old.

 

I didn't send my daughter in until she was 12 or so. I live in a big city.

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Just wanted to chime in here and sing the praises of Swiss Farm Stores, a drive-through grocery. If you don't have something similar in your area, it's a brilliant business concept. Sleeping kids? No problem, no reason to get out of the car. Just drive through and get your grocery basics - milk, etc. I wish everyone had this choice available for situations just like the OP's. Of course, there are all kinds of benefits to kids making their own transactions, etc., but it's nice to have options!

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To be honest, I wouldn't send my 7 (almost 8) year old daughter into a grocery store alone. She, and my two older boys, go into convenience stores and gas stations alone, but I can see them through the windows almost the entire time.

 

I would let my 9 year old.

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I doubt that I'd do it or permit it, BUT I think there's a LOT people need to take into consideration..

 

1. What size store are we talking. Small corner/local grocery or giant big old Walmart.

 

2. Are you familiar with the staff in the shop.

 

 

See, in our crazy town little Kindy aged kids walked to school.. alone. When we had a child predator on the lose people were ANGRY that they were asked to watch their kids make it to school. When a second child reported an attempted napping people worked their bums off without complaint. I don't think it should have come to that, kwim?

 

However, things calmed down, all though there was no report of catching the twerp. Kids still go to and fro on their own. Some with friends some without. It's not out of the ordinary in the tiny town we just moved away from to see young children wandering in the shop alone. I would have had no issues pulling up and letting my 8 or 10 year old go into those two shops.

 

Having said that.. those shops are only 3 isles big or so and we are on first name basis with all the clerks. I'd never dream of letting them go into the local kmart alone or anything like that. Mostly because I prefer to air on the side of cation, kwim?

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It depends on the kid I think.

 

I wouldn't have sent my 7 year old to that store (we moved from waco a bit over a year ago.. you didn't attend the helping hands co-op did you? LOL) but she's a bit of a ditz to be honest.

 

I do let her take her horse 2 miles to town here and go to the store.. but it's a completely different atmosphere. She can't get lost. She still manages to linger at a friends house and at times forget she was sent down to BUY something LOL.. So I'd just say it depends on your kiddo.

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In our area the child would need to look 11 or 12 and it would have to be a store with only one exist and small store, otherwise someone would report a lone child. Seven would probably get you a visit to the slammer.

Edited by love2read
lol corrected spelling
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About times changing, my mother used to send me down the street by myself when I was about 9 with a note asking the pharmacy to sell me a pack of cigarettes for her (and they did).

 

:lol: I used to run in and buy cigarettes for my grandpa all the time when I was little.

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