Saved: You are because of how you think/believe or You are because of what you do?

[JenniferB]

A few days back in this post I commented on a statement made by Heather in NC in which she said, "An erroneous view of salvation and you could end up in hell." I think about this take on salvation a lot, well because I used to have this take on salvation. Now, I'm kind of discovering what my view on salvation is. I can't really put it into words, but I do know that my new view of who will partake in salvation is not limited to what a person thinks about God or how he works among people. My thoughts are constantly changing and evolving on the matter, hopefully moving more and more toward the truth. I have much to learn, or maybe more accurately stated, I have much to unlearn, does that mean during this process and until I "get there" I'm not saved? What I wonder is, how can something that takes place in your mind, thoughts, save you? I'm starting to think that it has more to do with what you do. [Ducking out now to post the poll and dodge the projectiles heading my way.] Before I duck out completely, would it be possible to discuss this without hurling a bunch of Bible verses back and forth, prooftexts, etc.? I'm interested in thoughtful discussion, not prooftexts. I'm familiar - very familiar - with all the prooftexts.

[ma23peas]

If I relied on my own view of what salvation was, I would fail. I go straight to the source, I believe the Bible to be the fact checker on this one and it clearly states it is not by works you receive salvation but by the faith in Jesus Christ the son of God, born, died for our sins, and rose again. It can not get any more clearer than that.

We do what we do because of what we believe and that inner yearning to be in unity with the Holy Spirit/God the Father/Jesus the savior...once you have received the Holy Spirit you have to allow that portion to guide your reasoning...Bible also states you need to continue to pray/serve/communicate with God...receiving the fruits of the spirit is a reflection of that.

 

Oh, wanted to add about your familiarity with the proof texts...I somehow sense that you are putting out a sense of "been there, done that"...I can honestly say that the Bible is a living work..it is never the same thing, I can't read it once and realize I 'got it'...it is constantly bringing forth new knowledge and support for my beliefs as I grow as a believer.

 

As an aside, I had the advantage of growing up in the Bible Belt, my extended family never (I never witnessed it) ever doubted the holiness and authority of God...that probably has some bearing on my ability to readily accept it. When we moved out to Washington State for 2 years, I have to be honest, there was a darkness over that place. Not just in the weather/drab clothes seen all around (I'm convinced if I lived out there longer I'd have to wear Hawaiian shirts just to bring some lightness..I once asked a Guatemalan native why their dress is so colorful...her take on it was that it shows the inner joy and love they have for one another, they want it to shine brightly...I then figured it out, Washington State has a problem wearing their joy)...you also rarely hear natives sharing their faith in a joyful/open expression, one native to Washington co-worker confirmed my feelings one day, when he first met me after having been promoted out there (I think they were upset a southerner getting a big promotion that normally stays within the northwest region) he thought I was fake with all my smiles/laughter/joy...but after knowing me for a year he actually came to me and said, "I think I get you now, you really believe don't you." It kind of stunned me, growing up in a community where it was taken for granted that you believed...and being placed in a community that relied on many alternative therapies to address what ailed their 'psyche'....and not being comfortable being open with their faith...don't get me wrong there are excellent churches out there, but something was missing...we visited over 25 churches before settling just so we could hear the Word. My husband and I both just said, it's missing the joy of the Lord we were so used to in the South..now the South is not perfect, we have many that go to church and put on a show...both are equally bad..but I can see where you may be struggling harder with this.

Edited December 15, 2011 by ma23peas

[Twigs]

If I relied on my own view of what salvation was, I would fail. I go straight to the source, I believe the Bible to be the fact checker on this one and it clearly states it is not by works you receive salvation but by the faith in Jesus Christ the son of God, born, died for our sins, and rose again. It can not get any more clearer than that.….

 

:iagree:

[Jennay]

I didn't vote for either choice - ultimately I am only saved through Jesus Christ and His mercy - any good works I may do are because of the grace of God enabling me to do them. But even then, those good works do not merit me anything, they are a way I can become more like Christ and then more in union with Him (such a slow process for me!)

[littlebug42]

I couldn't really answer the poll because for me, as a Catholic, they both go together.

[JenniferB]

If Jesus saves us by His mercy, and I believe He does, then my question really is about when does he determine to have mercy or not to have mercy? Is it when someone thinks and believes correctly about him and what he did? Or is it when someone does the things He said to do?

[ScoutTN]

C, None of the above.

I am saved because God out of his own free grace pardons all my sins and accepts me as righteous in his sight because of the finished work of Jesus Christ, which God has enabled me to receive by faith alone.

 

Ephesians 2:1-10

 

2 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved athrough faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

 

 

The poll question poses a false dichotomy. True faith and growth in sanctification cannot be separated.

Edited December 15, 2011 by ScoutTN

[ScoutTN]

If Jesus saves us by His mercy, and I believe He does, then my question really is about when does he determine to have mercy or not to have mercy? Is it when someone thinks and believes correctly about him and what he did? Or is it when someone does the things He said to do?

 

Neither. Ephesians 1:4 Before the foundation of the world.

God's gift of saving grace does not depend on us.

[Spy Car]

The Christian answer depends on if you listen to James—who walked with Jesus—or to Saul/Paul, who did not.

 

Bill

[ma23peas]

If Jesus saves us by His mercy, and I believe He does, then my question really is about when does he determine to have mercy or not to have mercy? Is it when someone thinks and believes correctly about him and what he did? Or is it when someone does the things He said to do?

 

OH I believe in mercy from the get go..He sent his son to save ALL people...not to selectively say, hmmm..maybe today, you...maybe tomorrow you...it is always there for anyone to receive....a visual would be the gift is there on the table...God knows who is going to pick it up and open it, and those who are just going to sit there and look at it, and say "what a nice gift, but I don't really need it right now"..he's omniscient...but he never pulls that gift away....it's been done, finis, fait accompli....He expects you to believe, have the faith of the mustard seed and trust that through the Holy Spirit HE will bring you to those works He needs you to accomplish..we are servants after all.

[Rosy]

I voted #1, but "having the true & correct view of salvation and God and believing it with all your heart" will result in regeneration (or the other way around, actually), which results in a change in behavior.

 

Also, Paul and James weren't in conflict. At least, Peter didn't seem to think so.

[JenniferB]

I only gave two choices for a reason, because I want to think about and discuss what is the catalyst for the

grace and mercy of God to be bestowed upon us. For the theif on the cross it was the mere asking for mercy, and it was bestowed. For the rest of us that have long lives to live, what is it? Jesus taught about alot of things, not just faith. Faith was a main topic, but so was caring for the needy, eating his flesh and drinking his blood, becoming like children, being fruitful, etc. etc.

[JenniferB]

Neither. Ephesians 1:4 Before the foundation of the world.

God's gift of saving grace does not depend on us.

 

So, God's gift of saving grace is bestowed on everyone no matter what they think/believe, or what they do? If not, then what? Who is it bestowed on, and why?

[TravelingChris]

I voted for number one but really it is because God chose me to be saved and the Holy Spirit brought the desire for God into me and therefore I believed. I chose 1 because it really has nothing to do with my actions or with anyone else's actions. Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

[Joanne]

Neither.

 

I read this before the poll, and I still can't really respond.

 

"Question everything you've been told about "salvation," hold steadfast to believing there is a God, and that faith is not centered on what happens after you die but the quality of relationships on earth."

[Parrothead]

Neither.

 

As a Catholic I could not in good conscious pick either.

[LMD]

I can't answer the poll as is. The question "If you had to choose between only two options, you are saved because you..."

That last word is the kicker. I didn't do anything. Of my own accord I would not be saved. God reveals, and by His Spirit I am moved to respond. By His Spirit and in His Strength both poll options are a part of Christian life. In my own spirit and strength both poll options are impossible.

[Whereneverever]

Wow, neither really fits. Where's my other option?;)

[Lovedtodeath]

The Christian answer depends on if you listen to James—who walked with Jesus—or to Saul/Paul, who did not.

 

Bill

James and Paul do not disagree. We are saved by faith. What James says is that when someone has faith it is evident. If someone has faith then they won't have nothing to show for it.

 

Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

 

The Lord Jesus Christ says that we are saved by believing in Him and that we would obey the will of his Father, not one or the other.

 

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

 

What does it mean to "know" someone in the Bible?

 

Obviously, there are people who think that they are doing things in order to earn salvation, but they in fact are not, because they do not have an intimate relationship with Jesus Christ.

 

Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

 

John 3:14,15; 7:38; 17:3; Matthew 7:19-23 All of the above is based on these scriptures, quotes of Jesus Christ.

[ereks mom]

C, None of the above.

I am saved because God out of his own free grace pardons all my sins and accepts me as righteous in his sight because of the finished work of Jesus Christ, which God has enabled me to receive by faith alone.

 

Ephesians 2:1-10

 

2 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved athrough faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

 

 

The poll question poses a false dichotomy. True faith and growth in sanctification cannot be separated.

 

:iagree:

[JenniferB]

Yes! No "other" option. I know it's hard to post a poll without an "other" option, but I just HAD to. I really want to know what everyone thinks about this subject: if what you think/believe is more significant or what you do/participate in is more significant to salvation. Of course both are important and present in the Christian life, well hopefully, but what is the catalyst, what distinguishes a person from being either saved or not saved?

[ereks mom]

James and Paul do not disagree. We are saved by faith. What James says is that when someone has faith it is evident. If someone has faith then they won't have nothing to show for it.

 

The Lord Jesus Christ says that we are saved by believing in Him and that we would obey the will of his Father, not one or the other.

 

Obviously, there are people who think that they are doing things in order to earn salvation, but they in fact are not, because they do not have an intimate relationship with Jesus Christ.

 

 

:iagree:

[ereks mom]

I didn't vote for either choice. My salvation is not dependent on anything I do except that I accept it. The free gift of salvation is available to anyone who will receive it, so that if someone refuses it, the fault is all his own. However, the work of salvation is done through Christ so that He alone receives the credit for it.

[FloridaLisa]

I can't answer the poll b/c it's oversimplified and doesn't present a correct view of scripture IMO. Essentially, I believe I'm saved and will spend eternity with God when I pass from this life b/c I've repented from my sins, I believe Jesus is God's One and Only Son and that He atoned for my sins. We are saved through grace alone, but faith in God is a verb, not mere head knowledge.

 

Lisa

[OLG]

I couldn't really answer the poll because for me, as a Catholic, they both go together.

 

:iagree:

[simka2]

I will not know the answer to this until I die. I hope for salvation (as in eternal life), I believe God loves me, I desire to please him, and I believe I know how he wants me to live.

 

I will continue to live secure in the love of the Trinity and I hope to reciprocate that love through living the way I believe God desires me to.

 

Ultimately, I am saved because God chooses to and I believe He wants all to be saved. :D

[Spy Car]

James and Paul do not disagree.

 

Romans 3:28 KJV (Paul)

 

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

 

James 2:24 KJV (James)

 

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

[justamouse]

An Abbot of the local monastery gave the lesson at a recent RCIA class. And he talked about walking in the sacramental, how everything is not what we see, but it, life, is a sacrament that we need Jesus to 'see'. That the person we are talking to is not themselves, but Christ. (Which I should ahve remembered when I dressed down the snotty cashier at Toys R Us last week.)

 

And, all at once it became SO overwhelming to me-I can't even remember my kids names right the first time on most days. I try, with all my heart to remember to read a book every day of Advent with the kids and fail at that-how am I supposed to walk, constantly aware of this sacramental life that surrounds us?

 

And at the end of the class, like he was reading my thoughts, he said we can't. We can't get it all at once, it takes a lifetime and that's why it's there, to constantly bring us into memory of what world we are truly a part of. It's why church every Sunday is *so* important, why kneeling as we enter is so important-because for one day that week, if we've failed every other time, we're remembering Him then.

 

We are constantly being saved. :grouphug:

 

ETA, you cannot divorce faith and works. They are a marriage.

Edited December 15, 2011 by justamouse

[mytwomonkeys]

My belief is that good works do not produce salvation but salvation will produce good works.

[JenniferB]

it takes a lifetime

 

Yes, I believe it does, for me. :D I can think of one who was completely obedient all at once, faith and obedience at once mingled together in glorious beauty, but I am not her, she is my example. Pray for me, mother of God.

[justamouse]

Yes, I believe it does, for me. :D I can think of one who was completely obedient all at once, faith and obedience at once mingled together in glorious beauty, but I am not her, she is my example. Pray for me, mother of God.

:grouphug:

[NicAnn]

Well, neither. I don't believe in being "saved" and I know that there is no Hell, so my answer will be different.

 

I believe that God looks at your heart, what you do and what you believe. If you live in the middle of nowhere, have never heard of God or Christianity...that doesn't matter. As long as you have a good heart and are willing to make a commitment to God (when the time comes), that's what matters.

 

So I suppose I agree with option 2 more, although it does not accurately describe my beliefs.

[Joanne]

Yes! No "other" option. I know it's hard to post a poll without an "other" option, but I just HAD to. I really want to know what everyone thinks about this subject: if what you think/believe is more significant or what you do/participate in is more significant to salvation. Of course both are important and present in the Christian life, well hopefully, but what is the catalyst, what distinguishes a person from being either saved or not saved?

 

Then you don't really want to know what "people" think, but what a select group of Christians who already have certain beliefs believe.

[JenniferB]

Joanne, Yes, you are right, "that" group, or anyone else who can squeeze themselves into the two poll options. I really wanted a conversation about "thought" vs. "action." I think I failed. :(

[JenniferB]

...and if you knew what was going on in my life right now, you would understand why I want to engage in such a conversation. There are people who talk about "faith" and "grace" "alone" and who do very bad things. I think that doctrine is dangerous for society and for the Christian community. When Christians stand on "faith alone" and "grace alone" and do terrible things, in full knowledge of their evil actions...well, you get my drift, how can they call themselves Christians? I guess I should have just asked that instead of posting a stupid poll. Also, that quote which I posted in my initial post bugged me, if someone has an erroneous view of salvation they could end up in hell. Really?

Edited December 16, 2011 by JenniferB

[sewingmama]

So according to the poll there are 23 LDS people on this board ;)

 

The LDS belief as many people know is that faith without works is dead. That is why it is so important to have a body - you can't actually DO anything without one. You have to prove your faith by backing it up with action. It is not enough to believe that we should be kind to other's -we have to ACT kind not just agree with it KWIM.

 

Secondly we don't believe that after you die that is it -game over. We believe in progression after death - it is going to take a very long time - longer then this earth life to become perfect like God has asked us too.

 

I have a few friends who believe you just have to accept Jesus into your heart (whatever that means :confused:) and then you can pretty much still do what you want and gain salvation through God's mercy and grace.

 

If you love God then you should act like it and DO the things he has said to do.

 

Now in saying this we don't believe that we can save ourselves by merely doing good deeds. That is where God's grace comes into it. We believe we are saved "by God's grace after ALL we can do". So basically - we work as hard as we can doing the things God has asked of us (which will never be enough because we all fall short of perfection) and after that God makes up the rest through his grace and mercy. In the end God is the only one who can save us through his grace -BUT we need to do all we can do to show God we have faith in him.

 

In LDS culture Faith is an action word ;)

Edited December 16, 2011 by sewingmama

[simka2]

A few days back in this post I commented on a statement made by Heather in NC in which she said, "An erroneous view of salvation and you could end up in hell." I think about this take on salvation a lot, well because I used to have this take on salvation. .

 

I think what you are asking is, "What erroneous views of salvation could cause someone to end up in Hell?"

 

Is it our correct belief in Salvation that saves us? Is it possible to have an incorrect view of Salvation and still experience salvation?

 

I would be very curious about peoples thoughts on those questions. :001_smile:

[JenniferB]

I think what you are asking is, "What erroneous views of salvation could cause someone to end up in Hell?"

 

Is it our correct belief in Salvation that saves us? Is it possible to have an incorrect view of Salvation and still experience salvation?

 

I would be very curious about peoples thoughts on those questions. :001_smile:

 

Oh yes!!! Discuss, discuss... :D

 

Also, is it dangerous for society or for Christian communities to have a "faith alone" "grace alone" stance on salvation? If so, have you seen the dangers of this view play out before your very eyes in your Christian community?

 

I just want to say again, stupid poll :banghead: - it did not accomplish what I wanted it to! Yet...there's still hope, the thread is not dead yet.

Edited December 16, 2011 by JenniferB

[Daisy]

I'm Reformed. I didn't answer your poll because both options put man in the driver's seat. This is my viewpoint.

 

Bolded emphasis my own. We are passive...UNTIL

 

Westminster Confession of Faith X, 1,2

 

All those whom God has predestined to life, and those only, He is pleased, in His appointed and accepted time, effectually to call, by His Word and Spirit, out of that state of sin and death, in which they are by nature, to grace and salvation, by Jesus Christ; enlightening their minds spiritually and savingly to understand the things of God, taking away their heart of stone, and giving to them a heart of flesh; renewing their wills, and by His almighty power determining them to that which is good, and effectually drawing them to Jesus Christ; yet so, as they come most freely, being made willing by His grace. This effectual call is of God's free and special grace alone, not from anything at all foreseen in man, who is altogether passive therein, until, being made alive and renewed by the Holy Spirit, he is thereby enabled to answer this call, and to embrace the grace offered and conveyed in it.

[Carrie75]

I didn't vote for either choice - ultimately I am only saved through Jesus Christ and His mercy - any good works I may do are because of the grace of God enabling me to do them. But even then, those good works do not merit me anything, they are a way I can become more like Christ and then more in union with Him (such a slow process for me!)

:iagree:

[mommyrooch]

If I relied on my own view of what salvation was, I would fail. I go straight to the source, I believe the Bible to be the fact checker on this one and it clearly states it is not by works you receive salvation but by the faith in Jesus Christ the son of God, born, died for our sins, and rose again. It can not get any more clearer than that.

 

But what about where it also clearly states that faith without works is dead? James 2: 14.26 clearly states just how meaningless faith is without works.

 

I also go straight to the source on this one and I cannot dismiss just how clear the Bible is on this issue. I do NOT think that faith and works are exclusive in salvation. They are inclusive. I believe that if you have truly been "saved" then you WILL have the works. That new spirit within you will drive you to action. A biblical faith is able to be seen. The inward change that takes place within us will express itself in an outward change as well.

 

The Bible touches on this very question over and over again. Probably the most compelling scripture on this in my mind is where in Matthew 25: 31-46, Jesus is describing the final judgement. I personally cannot separate my faith and my works after reading this passage. Jesus does not say that a person will be judged by how often they attend church, how often they pray or how strongly they believed in him. In fact, it is very clear in this passage that the people he is addressing do believe in him. They even ask him when they saw him naked, poor, hungry etc. His response to them clearly shows that they are in fact being judged by their actions, not by their faith alone.

 

In answer to the OP. I do not think that faith and works are exclusive in salvation. They are inclusive. Yes, the only way to be saved is by faith but I believe the Bible clearly explains that a true biblical faith requires action. If there is no action then I believe that the faith is not a biblical faith as described by Jesus. If one has the biblical faith as described by Jesus then one will be moved to action. Otherwise, the faith they claim to have is dead in the eyes of Jesus. It is by the faith that Christ describes that a person is truly saved and his descriptions of that faith clearly include works.

 

At least that's my $0.2 ;)

Edited December 16, 2011 by mommyrooch

[mommyrooch]

I couldn't really answer the poll because for me, as a Catholic, they both go together.

 

Yes!! This. I am not Catholic but I believe this as well. In fact, I just posted on this very thing before I had read all of the responses. ;) I too believe that the Bible clearly explains that faith and works are not exclusive in salvation.

[Joanne]

James and Paul do not disagree. We are saved by faith. What James says is that when someone has faith it is evident. If someone has faith then they won't have nothing to show for it.

 

 

 

Or, maybe they ARE contradictory.

 

The need for Christians to make the Bible clear and black and white is ultimately dumbing theology down.

 

The Bible IS ambiguous. The Bible DOES contradict itself. How could it not, with its development and content.

 

Not to mention the fact that it reflects life; a very ambiguous, complicated life. Why can't Christians embrace the ambiguity and celebrate the richness of life and God?

 

Why are Christians intent on literalness to the point of absurdity? James and Paul DO disagree. They ALSO agree. ;) I had a Christian recently insist that the God of the Old Testament isn't vengeful, and that a "true" understanding of scripture shows ONLY his mercy. Um. No. His mercy is certainly in the OT; so are indications of a petty, immature, unpredictable, odd God.

 

The Jews have a much better, much more authentic encompassing cultural theology.

[Avila]

I can't answer the poll. I keep going back to James 2:24, faith without works is dead.

 

God calls and we respond to that call in faith. Isn't responding a work of sorts? Isn't making that choice to believe an act?

 

We are called not because we merit it but because God, in his mercy, offers salvation. We then respond to his call by picking up our cross and choosing to follow him. If we simply say Yes and go on like we were before, what have we really done? Mat. 7:21 tells us that not everyone who calls him Lord will enter his Kingdom, but only those who do the will of the Father. Doing the will of the Father is a work. It is an act of love for someone who believes, but it still requires effort on the part of the believer. So I can't separate faith and works.

 

I don't think the thought or pure belief is enough unless we act on it by becoming followers of Christ. Until we put the belief in motion, we are no more than spectators and not disciples.

[Sputterduck]

I can't vote because neither work.

 

You can't save yourself. There is nothing you can do that could make you qualify on your own for Heaven. Remember, the Bible states clearly that all our righteousness is like filthy rags to God. If we could save ourselves, it would have been terribly unnecessary for Jesus to come and suffer like He did.

 

At the same time, with your other option, you mention just thoughts in your head. That's wrong as well. One time, long ago, someone explained salvation to me as a transaction between you and God. It's an actual transaction, not a thought. He said God offers, but you need to reach out and take it. Reaching out and accepting is not some act of trying to be good enough to save yourself by your own works. It acknowledges that God is offering and that God is the only person who can extend grace and overcome your own shortcomings.

[Heather in Neverland]

Also, that quote which I posted in my initial post bugged me, if someone has an erroneous view of salvation they could end up in hell. Really?

 

Well someone just brought this thread to my attention. I am terribly sorry my sentence "bugged" you but in my defense, you did take it out of context.

 

I was answering in regards to a woman who thought celebrating christmas would send you to hell. And my response was that is foolishness. One's salvation is not based in whether or not they celebrate christmas. That IS an erroneous view of salvation.

 

But to answer your question: Salvation is a supernatural work of the Holy Spirit to regenerate the heart of man and enable saving faith. We do not choose God. He chooses us. We are DEAD in our trespasses and would NEVER of our own accord choose the things of God. Therefore, I do not believe in the "sinner's prayer". There are no magical words you repeat after someone that give you salvation.

 

So yes, I believe in grace alone. I do not believe that I am saved because I made some clever choice. I am saved because God is merciful.

 

Good works proceed from salvation. They are not the cause of it. Also, salvation is an event. But the process of growing more Christ-like in our daily lives is sanctification. It is an on-going process that will never end until we are with God.

 

So yes, Christians who believe in grace alone DO still sin. We are to continuously repent of those sins and strive to be more like Christ every day. We are not perfect, just forgiven.

 

But we cannot earn our salvation by doing good deeds. That cheapens the sacrifice of Christ on the Cross. If all I have to do is a bunch of good deeds to get into heaven then why do I need a savior? As far as good works are concerned: I do the will of MY Father because he is MY Father. And he is NOT MY Father if I am not saved.

 

I was raised in a tiny legalistic church. I was surrounded by hypocrisy. As a result I walked away from the church for about 15 years. It was the truth of salvation by grace alone that brought me back. My salvation is not dependent on my choice, my good deeds, etc. and it also has nothing to do with the behavior of my fellow professing christians. I cannot use the bad behavior of others to justify my own behavior.

[JenniferB]

Heather in NC, thank you for responding. That statement did bug me, but I feel a little better now that you gave a fuller explanation. :D

[angela in ohio]

I voted for number one but really it is because God chose me to be saved and the Holy Spirit brought the desire for God into me and therefore I believed. I chose 1 because it really has nothing to do with my actions or with anyone else's actions. Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

 

This.

[JenniferB]

Well someone just brought this thread to my attention. I am terribly sorry my sentence "bugged" you but in my defense, you did take it out of context.

 

I was answering in regards to a woman who thought celebrating christmas would send you to hell. And my response was that is foolishness. One's salvation is not based in whether or not they celebrate christmas. That IS an erroneous view of salvation.

 

Oh no, I'm bugged again. Does this mean she will go to hell for her view?

[hmschooling]

If I relied on my own view of what salvation was, I would fail. I go straight to the source, I believe the Bible to be the fact checker on this one and it clearly states it is not by works you receive salvation but by the faith in Jesus Christ the son of God, born, died for our sins, and rose again. It can not get any more clearer than that.

We do what we do because of what we believe and that inner yearning to be in unity with the Holy Spirit/God the Father/Jesus the savior...once you have received the Holy Spirit you have to allow that portion to guide your reasoning...Bible also states you need to continue to pray/serve/communicate with God...receiving the fruits of the spirit is a reflection of that.

 

 

:iagree: