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I'm sure the horse is dead, but... (Duggar content)


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Yes, it's me, annoyed again by the Duggars. :tongue_smilie: Did anyone watch the world tour? That was very awesome and I would love to do that. Here's what annoys me:

 

At the end of the trip, Josie got sick. Being a premie, it was advised that she should not travel the 11 hour flight home until she was well. So, the rest of the family went home and Michelle, Josie, and Jill stayed.

 

I will grant you, it's a tv show, with short clips - anything different could be happening the other couple hundred hours - however! Whenever there's a shot of the three going anywhere or doing anything, Jill is holding Josie. Jill carries Josie, Jill holds Josie...Jill, Jill, Jill. :glare: It makes it appear that Michelle says, "Okay! A new baby is coming! Let's pawn the 'old' baby off on Jill!" It just really annoys me. Maybe it's just the unfortunate editing that just so happens to catch it that way, but it looks like Michelle never chooses to hold an 'old' baby once a new one is along and there's a sister handy.

 

Okay, vent over. Go back to your day. :lurk5:

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Well, maybe Jill is Josie's "buddy". An early episode, when there was only 14 or 15, had a segment that went into the Duggar buddy system. I don't agree with it; it's just what came to mind when I read your post.

 

I'm sure Jill is Josie's "buddy." I just don't get why that would mean Michelle doesn't hold her if it would be possible for Jill OR Michelle to hold her.

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Yes, it's me, annoyed again by the Duggars. :tongue_smilie: Did anyone watch the world tour? That was very awesome and I would love to do that. Here's what annoys me:

 

At the end of the trip, Josie got sick. Being a premie, it was advised that she should not travel the 11 hour flight home until she was well. So, the rest of the family went home and Michelle, Josie, and Jill stayed.

 

I will grant you, it's a tv show, with short clips - anything different could be happening the other couple hundred hours - however! Whenever there's a shot of the three going anywhere or doing anything, Jill is holding Josie. Jill carries Josie, Jill holds Josie...Jill, Jill, Jill. :glare: It makes it appear that Michelle says, "Okay! A new baby is coming! Let's pawn the 'old' baby off on Jill!" It just really annoys me. Maybe it's just the unfortunate editing that just so happens to catch it that way, but it looks like Michelle never chooses to hold an 'old' baby once a new one is along and there's a sister handy.

 

Okay, vent over. Go back to your day. :lurk5:

 

I don't know could be Jill? I mean Devlin was 9 when her sister was born and she toted that child everywhere. Even in grocery stores she carried her. Skyler Bay was her baby from the day she came home she even named her. That "baby" is 7 now and you will find it very rare that her big sister has not got her. She gets out of the car gives her bye bye kisses, she tells her goodnight, she gives her a bath I mean on and on.

 

People have went as far as to say things but there is no way I ever could have kept her off that baby!

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I don't know could be Jill? I mean Devlin was 9 when her sister was born and she toted that child everywhere. Even in grocery stores she carried her. Skyler Bay was her baby from the day she came home she even named her. That "baby" is 7 now and you will find it very rare that her big sister has not got her. She gets out of the car gives her bye bye kisses, she tells her goodnight, she gives her a bath I mean on and on.

 

People have went as far as to say things but there is no way I ever could have kept her off that baby!

 

Anything is possible. I doubt it, though, because having a baby "buddy" is old news for Jill. She's already been buddy to 4 or 5 of the kids.

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I watched and my take is that Jill enjoys Josie.

:iagree: And I will say that preemies are special. Not that all new babies in a family aren't special, but the birth and what they all went through with Josie might have made a very, very strong connection with Jill. I recall Jill being really very involved in all the day to day care of Josie from the beginning. Jana too, but she's not on the show anymore I guess. My take is that Jill has a special bond with Josie and just enjoys her. And Michelle might have also been advised to take it easy with the lifting and toting.

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From the timing of the trip, I gleaned that Michelle was in her 1st trimester, and we know from previous pregnancies that is when she is most ill &/or tired. Travelling really takes it out of a person, and even though she didn't suffer the usual morning sickness as much w/ this one, the erratic schedule must have done her in. I'm guessing that Jill is Josie's buddy, BUT she also just loves her to pieces, and if it helped her mom feel a bit better or have more energy, she'd take over much of the physical care/carrying. I've seen in other episodes that the elder girls frequently had one of the littles in an Ergo at various times.

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:iagree: And I will say that preemies are special. Not that all new babies in a family aren't special, but the birth and what they all went through with Josie might have made a very, very strong connection with Jill. I recall Jill being really very involved in all the day to day care of Josie from the beginning. Jana too, but she's not on the show anymore I guess. My take is that Jill has a special bond with Josie and just enjoys her. And Michelle might have also been advised to take it easy with the lifting and toting.

 

I saw her on recent episodes. I think she may not be around as much because she is going to college of some sort. Isn't she the one who wanted to go to nursing school?

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Alright. I guess I'm being a heel. :tongue_smilie:

 

Oh, I don't think you're a heel. I think the entire family is a touch odd. I didn't see that particular show, but I agree with you. I feel bad that the older girls have to care for the littles so much. With Jill, it looks like she truly enjoys her time with the babies, and as she doesn't have much contact with the outside world except for the other large family, The Bates, it doesn't look like she will have any of her own any time soon. But that's for another thread.:tongue_smilie:

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I saw her on recent episodes. I think she may not be around as much because she is going to college of some sort. Isn't she the one who wanted to go to nursing school?

 

I have read two reports on her. One said she is in college and lives elsewhere now. The other said that she was struggling in her faith and her parents sent her to a ATI camp to re-dedicate herself.

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I saw her on recent episodes. I think she may not be around as much because she is going to college of some sort. Isn't she the one who wanted to go to nursing school?

Yeah, I heard something about her wanting to be a midwife or something and she is in training. But not regular college, I don't think.

 

Did she go on the world tour trip? That would have been a shame for her to miss that!!!

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Several of the kids are enrolled in College Plus. Jana still lives at home, but has in the past year harbored some negative feelings towards someone in the family and has opted to be more in the background on days when the film crew is there. It was discussed in an episode earlier this year, and yes, she attended an ATI program to help her with those feelings. I never got the impression that she was forced to go- several sisters and friends also attended the same event. The show was quite open with that- if you're looking, it was around the time they were doing the episodes on Weight Watchers and Jim Bob dieting. Or you could pop over the the forums on Television Without Pity and those folks could probably within minutes provide you with episode names, air dates, and links to clips.g

 

ETA: Just kidding about the TWOP forums- you nice people don't want to wander over there- it's not rated G. Or even PG. And they take snarking to an Olympic level.

Edited by Annie G
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Several of the kids are enrolled in College Plus. Jana still lives at home, but has in the past year harbored some negative feelings towards someone in the family and has opted to be more in the background on days when the film crew is there. It was discussed in an episode earlier this year, and yes, she attended an ATI program to help her with those feelings. I never got the impression that she was forced to go- several sisters and friends also attended the same event. The show was quite open with that- if you're looking, it was around the time they were doing the episodes on Weight Watchers and Jim Bob dieting. Or you could pop over the the forums on Television Without Pity and those folks could probably within minutes provide you with episode names, air dates, and links to clips.g

 

The retreat the sisters attended was in 2009.

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Usually when Jill was carrying the baby, Michelle was carrying the oxygen tank. Since I don't know them I have no idea what happens all the time, and I suppose that goes the same for the viewers. Because the editing only showed scenes of Jill holding Josie, it gives that impression; however, it may not be the "whole story". For all we know Michelle holds her most of the time - maybe not. Just can't assume based on editing because the "reality" of reality shows lies in the hands of the editors.

 

As far as Jill staying there with Michelle and Josie, I have to support that decision. If it was me, I'd feel better with another family member there with me and the baby (especially if I was ill or weak..for the baby's safety and well-being).

 

I don't think you are a heel. The editing gives that impression - whether it is factual or not. It is easy to assume that is the case.

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The retreat the sisters attended was in 2009.

 

I stand corrected. Time flies when you're older---I seem to have lost an entire year! Yes, the retreat was in 2009. Wish I could still link the podcast the Duggar girls did about the event- it was quite interesting. I'm not a Gothard fan, so I find those camps/retreats to be kind of scary.

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Michelle looked so incredibly exhausted to me on the show yesterday. Poor thing; first trimester plus a preemie emergency. I think Jill is happy to do what she's doing. I've wondered what was going on with Jana for a while now. I never picked up on the part that she was harboring some bad feelings for someone in the family... when did they talk about that on a show??? I've missed her b/c i enjoyed watching her in the earlier shows. I hope she's ok. Even when she wasn't "on" the show, I'd see her in the background, so I know she's there, but it's obvious she's not participating. Maybe she thinks it's a bad idea or something, you know, making a show out of her family :$

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I don't know that much about Michelle, but a friend sent me the Tea with Michelle Duggar DVD that Vision Forum sells and she did share that she has back problems and that the older girls love to take care of the little ones. She was interviewed and that was one of the questions that came from the audience (whether her older daughters resented having to help so much with the younger children). She said they had never given her any reason to think so - actually the opposite - they really do enjoy being big sisters and helping their mom.

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Anything is possible. I doubt it, though, because having a baby "buddy" is old news for Jill. She's already been buddy to 4 or 5 of the kids.
:glare::glare::glare:

 

Just EW.

 

What is WRONG with a "mother" who wants a "buddy" for their babies?? I remember going a little nuts when my husband held my babies for too long. :lol::lol:

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Yeah, I heard something about her wanting to be a midwife or something and she is in training. But not regular college, I don't think.

 

Did she go on the world tour trip? That would have been a shame for her to miss that!!!

 

Jana did go on the world tour, along with Grandma, cousin Amy and Anna with the kids.

 

I don't know that much about Michelle, but a friend sent me the Tea with Michelle Duggar DVD that Vision Forum sells and she did share that she has back problems and that the older girls love to take care of the little ones. She was interviewed and that was one of the questions that came from the audience (whether her older daughters resented having to help so much with the younger children). She said they had never given her any reason to think so - actually the opposite - they really do enjoy being big sisters and helping their mom.

 

It's not necessarily that I think the older sisters resent it, it's that it looks sort of hands-off, un-nurturing to my eye. This episode with Jill constantly holding Josie is not the only time I've thought that. There have been many, many episodes where every older girl is holding or strolling a little one, but Michelle is child-free. There have also been episodes in which the situation (to me) would call for the mother's intervention, but that isn't what is depicted. (Just for examples: one with a toddler - maybe Johanna - vomiting and Michelle is nowhere to be seen. Another with Jackson briefly lost in the airport, sitting on Jana's lap, sobbing.) Those types of situations seem to me like times when, as a mother, I would be present to help/soothe the child, but it looks to me like, "Oh, their 'buddy' has it covered. Nevermind." It just bugs me as a mom.

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Usually when Jill was carrying the baby, Michelle was carrying the oxygen tank. Since I don't know them I have no idea what happens all the time, and I suppose that goes the same for the viewers. Because the editing only showed scenes of Jill holding Josie, it gives that impression; however, it may not be the "whole story". For all we know Michelle holds her most of the time - maybe not. Just can't assume based on editing because the "reality" of reality shows lies in the hands of the editors.

 

As far as Jill staying there with Michelle and Josie, I have to support that decision. If it was me, I'd feel better with another family member there with me and the baby (especially if I was ill or weak..for the baby's safety and well-being).

 

I don't think you are a heel. The editing gives that impression - whether it is factual or not. It is easy to assume that is the case.

 

I agree that it's what they depict on the show. And it's not that I think there's anything wrong with keeping back one capable sibling to be helpful. As a mom, it would break my heart to see most of my family heading back to our home country while I'm stuck in a foreign land with a sick baby - very unnerving! It just looked to me like (as I said already), "Okay - now we have a new baby coming, it's time to groom Josie to look first to Jill and not Mama!" That's what bothers me.

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I think the bottom line is that they have a very unique lifestyle that none of us will ever understand.

I have issue with a friend of mine who schedules her whole life and flight schedule around the football games of the oldest "golden" boy who is in college. Tonight they are home alone in the care of the 17 year old(there are 5 total) since the dad is working and mom is flying. So leaving your kids home alone in the evenings to deal with homework and dinner is ok because you don't want to fly when DH is around on the weekends so you can go to the football games? That makes no sense to me but it is what the kids are used to.:glare:

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She may also love the chance to be just one-on-one (and baby) with mom for a bit. I can't imagine that happens much in very large families. To have a moment for more grown up discussions without a herd of littles underfoot listening in.

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How about the doctor from the hospital flying to the US with Josie??? Who paid for THAT?! That had to have been super expensive. They totally downplayed that part.

 

Oh you're so right! I caught a glimpse of the very pediatrician who was in the show following Michelle onto the plane and was like *gasp* "is that the same doctor who was helping Josie in the clinic???" Then I figured the TLC money comes in handy to help them get home sooner than later, and why not use it if they've got it! But remember how in that doctor's office she repeated after him "so no flying unless accompanied by a doctor or nurse" and you could see her mind working on that one!

 

They certainly are unique and have a way of running their household. I would love to know more of them, for some reason. Well, I guess it's the number of kids and their strong beliefs which I think is great.

 

Twice during this past show I commented out loud how the boys never were shown moaning or making dumb faces showing they didn't want to be there or didn't want to listen to someone's lecture. My ten yr old acted rudely (in my opinion) when I took them to a little museum last week... it was all of three rooms big and I told them we'd be outta there in a short time. He was complaining and lying on one of the benches in a room. I freaked out when I saw him and had him get up and act polite, but man her boys act very nicely from what we see. I'd just like to know how no one shows a bad attitude EVER.

 

The other thing I really want to know is how we often manage to see Michelle walking here or there without any littles running after her talking or asking her question. I have four kids and they often all want something from me at the same time. Whether it's to show me an owie, a drawing, or to ask if they can eat or do something, there is always someone wanting me. I wonder if they're somehow taught just to leave her alone?

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Yes, it's me, annoyed again by the Duggars. :tongue_smilie: Did anyone watch the world tour? That was very awesome and I would love to do that. Here's what annoys me:

 

At the end of the trip, Josie got sick. Being a premie, it was advised that she should not travel the 11 hour flight home until she was well. So, the rest of the family went home and Michelle, Josie, and Jill stayed.

 

I will grant you, it's a tv show, with short clips - anything different could be happening the other couple hundred hours - however! Whenever there's a shot of the three going anywhere or doing anything, Jill is holding Josie. Jill carries Josie, Jill holds Josie...Jill, Jill, Jill. :glare: It makes it appear that Michelle says, "Okay! A new baby is coming! Let's pawn the 'old' baby off on Jill!" It just really annoys me. Maybe it's just the unfortunate editing that just so happens to catch it that way, but it looks like Michelle never chooses to hold an 'old' baby once a new one is along and there's a sister handy.

 

Okay, vent over. Go back to your day. :lurk5:

Being a mom of many, yes, it can look that way. However, there could be more going on. My girls LIKE helping with younger siblings. When I was pregnant, especially after so many and difficult pregnancies, it helped to have someone else hold the wiggly tot so that I didn't get kicked, so that I had free hands to manage things that my children would not be able or allowed to manage, so that if I didn't feel well I wouldn't pass out with a tot in arms, I couldn't bend over very well, etc. So yes, an older child to help with the younger is not necessarily a bad thing, nor is it the older "raising" the younger.

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Sounds like brainwashing camp to me.

 

That is really too bad. The thing is, for the Duggars she may be struggling with the idea of not working in a career or not being QF, or some other heinous abomination! :glare:

 

I haven't watched this new season as we cut our satellite TV.

 

I remember once my son told me I was being mean and I should be like that nice lady on TV that has 19 kids......I said, "Ok, just know that you will no longer have access to the internet, any game systems, TV watching, or going on many vacations unless the TV guys pay for it!" He immediately said, "Ok, you can be mean, I deserve it anyway!" :lol:

 

Dawn

 

 

 

I have read two reports on her. One said she is in college and lives elsewhere now. The other said that she was struggling in her faith and her parents sent her to a ATI camp to re-dedicate herself.
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We have a 19month old and ever since he was born, my dd8 has taken every chance to hold him or has wanted to hold him when she doesn't have him. I don't "pawn" him off to her, she loves him and wants him. If she had it her way, she would take care of him all the time. :) DS10 wants him equally as much, too. I see Jill as a loving sister and Josie as a well loved baby from all. I'm also aware that Jill wants to be a midwife (from seeing her study on a previous show) and from other shows I can see a great love and compassion in her, therefore I think it's her choice to naturally be involved, not to mention it is her sister. :) It is also God-given that a girl wants to be a mommy and take care of little ones. We could all learn from the Duggars, instead of criticize them. If you don't care for their lifestyle, turn off the tv and go hug and care for your little ones and find in yourself where you can improve, as we all can as parents and individuals. I'll tell you, it is refreshing to find a family like them to watch on tv instead of the other trash that's on there breaking down the family.

Edited by Dianne-TX
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We have a 19month old and ever since he was born, my dd8 has taken every chance to hold him or has wanted to hold him when she doesn't have him. I don't "pawn" him off to her, she loves him and wants him. If she had it her way, she would take care of him all the time. :) DS10 wants him equally as much, too. I see Jill as a loving sister and Josie as a well loved baby from all. I'm also aware that Jill wants to be a midwife (from seeing her study on a previous show) and from other shows I can see a great love and compassion in her, therefore I think it's her choice to naturally be involved, not to mention it is her sister. :) It is also God-given that a girl wants to be a mommy and take care of little ones. We could all learn from the Duggars, instead of criticize them. If you don't care for their lifestyle, turn off the tv and go hug and care for your little ones and find in yourself where you can improve, as we all can as parents and individuals. I'll tell you, it is refreshing to find a family like them to watch on tv instead of the other trash that's on there breaking down the family.

 

:iagree:I really don't understand the nit-picky animosity so many have towards this family. Is it really so surprising that an older sister would take joy in caring for a newborn in her household? Perhaps that says more about the critics than said sister. How exactly does what this family does affect those who delight in tearing them down? Why anyone would care to the point of having to say something unkind or critical about them is a complete enigma to me. Like Dianne said, if you don't like them, turn off the tv. I mean, really, why watch if it's going to be so painful?

 

I think it is especially ironic that homeschoolers, who as a whole tend to abhor this kind of behavior when it is directed at them by friends and relatives who cannot abide their choice to homeschool, would have so much to say about how another family chooses to live. There is no abuse going on (I understand the Pearl animosity very well) - the Duggars are just different. Why is it so hard to just let them be who they are? I think they are a perfectly lovely family and head and shoulders above many families I know as far as closeness, caring, industriousness, selflessness and many other desirable character traits goes.

 

We all have blind spots in our parenting no matter how many children we have. We all fail in this area or that. How about showing Michelle a little grace here. And if you're really concerned that she's such a lousy mom, why not pray for her? I'm sure she'd be the first to admit her shortcomings and redouble her efforts to improve her parenting.

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I don't know but I believe that Jill enjoys holding her, I know I do when my mom has a new baby! I will bring the baby everywhere with me no matter what, an dI can't wait to start driving so that I can bring the baby along on rides. Maybe she just enjoys it, and maybe Michelle can't lift a lot of weight because she is pregnant again.

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We have a 19month old and ever since he was born, my dd8 has taken every chance to hold him or has wanted to hold him when she doesn't have him. I don't "pawn" him off to her, she loves him and wants him. If she had it her way, she would take care of him all the time. :) DS10 wants him equally as much, too. I see Jill as a loving sister and Josie as a well loved baby from all. I'm also aware that Jill wants to be a midwife (from seeing her study on a previous show) and from other shows I can see a great love and compassion in her, therefore I think it's her choice to naturally be involved, not to mention it is her sister. :) It is also God-given that a girl wants to be a mommy and take care of little ones. We could all learn from the Duggars, instead of criticize them. If you don't care for their lifestyle, turn off the tv and go hug and care for your little ones and find in yourself where you can improve, as we all can as parents and individuals. I'll tell you, it is refreshing to find a family like them to watch on tv instead of the other trash that's on there breaking down the family.

 

:iagree:I really don't understand the nit-picky animosity so many have towards this family. Is it really so surprising that an older sister would take joy in caring for a newborn in her household? Perhaps that says more about the critics than said sister. How exactly does what this family does affect those who delight in tearing them down? Why anyone would care to the point of having to say something unkind or critical about them is a complete enigma to me. Like Dianne said, if you don't like them, turn off the tv. I mean, really, why watch if it's going to be so painful?

 

I think it is especially ironic that homeschoolers, who as a whole tend to abhor this kind of behavior when it is directed at them by friends and relatives who cannot abide their choice to homeschool, would have so much to say about how another family chooses to live. There is no abuse going on (I understand the Pearl animosity very well) - the Duggars are just different. Why is it so hard to just let them be who they are? I think they are a perfectly lovely family and head and shoulders above many families I know as far as closeness, caring, industriousness, selflessness and many other desirable character traits goes.

 

We all have blind spots in our parenting no matter how many children we have. We all fail in this area or that. How about showing Michelle a little grace here. And if you're really concerned that she's such a lousy mom, why not pray for her? I'm sure she'd be the first to admit her shortcomings and redouble her efforts to improve her parenting.

 

:iagree: 100%.

 

I always watch the show, but I paid very close attention last night to see if I could see what everyone is complaining about. The first time Jill was holding Josie, Michelle was near tears saying good-bye to her husband and other children. You could just see how sad she was over having to stay there without her family. It was sad! The other times Jill was holding Josie, Michelle was carrying the oxygen tank, car seat, stroller, suitcases... how could she carry her?

 

I do not see the issue with older siblings helping their mother with younger siblings. I have always loved babies and, as a child, I would hold them if I had the chance even while the other kids my age were off playing. Jill just loves babies and children!

 

As far as the issue folks are taking with the doctor flying with them, what is the issue?! A doctor told her they can fly if accompanied by a doctor. He was obviously willing to do it. Why shouldn't Michelle take him up on that offer? I don't get it. Who cares how much it cost... it's THEIR money!!! You can bet if any of us could easily afford it, most would do it! I mean, come on!!! :rolleyes:

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I feel that the whole Duggar discussion gets so out of balance. I have had 5 children, not been a perfect mother or wife to my children and husband. If we had been a reality show I am sure most could have come up with things that looked off or were looking up side down.

 

I have not watch the show much as we haven't had cable for some time. What I have seen those children live in a very loving environment. Because I don't agree with all their beliefs don't make them wrong.

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