Veganism -- why not?

[msjones]

I recently watched Forks Over Knives which promotes a plant-based, whole foods diet.

 

Naturally, the film focuses on the benefits of a vegan diet; there seem to be plenty of benefits. The people in the film had terrific health improvements when they cut out meat and dairy. No drawbacks are mentioned.

 

So, I wonder what the folks on this forum have to say about veganism. Why not be a vegan?

[Impish]

Because animals are tasty.

[msjones]

Because animals are tasty.

 

I agree. ;)

 

I should have written, "for what health reasons might one not become a vegan?"

[TravelingChris]

Anemia, for one. One dd has had problems with that. I have B12 deficiency so that is another reason not to be vegan. Then all of us need calcium which we get a lot from dairy products.

 

While I could potentially see some health benefits for vegetarianism (though not for that one dd nor me), I can't see any health benefits to veganism. It doesn't seem to be based on health but rather on a strange philosophy. I see no reason why dairy and eggs can;t be consumed since they don't kill any animals.

[LittleIzumi]

It's expensive & much more time- and ingredient-intensive to prepare, in general. There are some quick/cheap vegan meals, but not enough!

 

Also, food allergies. No nuts here.

[Mergath]

I think veganism is great for some people, not so much for others. My mom gets anemic pretty easily. For her, veganism would not be a good choice. It really depends on the dietary needs of each person.

[Rosie_0801]

If we're talking only about health reasons, people are concerned that vegans don't have adequate nutrition. That's quite a reasonable concern because it's virtually impossible for vegans to get enough B12 in this day and age due to so many decades of soil depletion. But on the other hand, omnivores don't have adequate nutrition either. For both "not eating crap" isn't enough to ensure one isn't nutrient deficient. I guess being nutrient deficient in standard ways is better than being nutrient deficient in some alternative, hippy kind of way or something.

 

Some people claim they can't absorb iron from plant sources, and other such things. Perhaps they could figure out how to make it work if they lived on a tropical island completely deserted by everyone other than the nice raw foodie chef who brings them green smoothies every hour and a half. But that's not practical. Or perhaps even under such ideal circumstances their bodies still wouldn't absorb the iron. Either way, since we don't live on islands with nothing to do but play at being mermaids, such people are better off eating animal products. That doesn't mean one has to give up entirely, obviously there's a whole lot of ground between 100% hardcore vegan and "oh, what the heck, I'll eat steak and eggs three meals a day." Some people who believe in low animal product consumption but can't be 100% vegan will sort of medicate with animal products when they feel they need them, the same way we might take echinacea when we feel a cold coming on. Some people are allergic to legumes, and it's pretty hard to be a healthy vegan without legumes.

 

And some people simply don't believe veganism will prevent any of those nasty diseases vegan rah-rah types say it will and have read other things that made more sense to them. Both sides can pick the arguments of the others to pieces for better reasons than "I don't want to believe that so I won't." A lot of the studies each side builds their arguments on are pretty shoddy. And how many of us have the time and brain power to trawl through medical journals to keep up to date with the research?

 

Rosie

[msjones]

Anemia, for one. One dd has had problems with that. I have B12 deficiency so that is another reason not to be vegan. Then all of us need calcium which we get a lot from dairy products.

 

While I could potentially see some health benefits for vegetarianism (though not for that one dd nor me), I can't see any health benefits to veganism. It doesn't seem to be based on health but rather on a strange philosophy. I see no reason why dairy and eggs can;t be consumed since they don't kill any animals.

 

The Forks Over Knives film was actually all about the health benefits -- nothing at all about animal rights or any other "strange philosophy."

 

Diabetes, obesity, heart disease, osteoporosis, cancer, and other diseases are all addressed in light of a plant-based diet.

 

I had previously given very little thought to a plant-based diet (the film never uses the term 'vegan' -- that was just me here in this thread) and was surprised to find myself considering a big change in my diet.

[Ellie]

Because animals are tasty.

:iagree:

[MelissaMinNC]

My husband has severe food allergies to many plant-based proteins, so eating meat is much healthier for him.

[butterflymommy]

It's expensive

 

Not true! I eat mostly vegan very very cheaply. Today was roasted cabbage, tomato soup, bananas, and oatmeal cookies. Yesterday was vegan eggplant "parmesan" with a garbanzo based "cheese" sauce. All cheap basic ingredients, no soy products or processed fake dairy/ meat. ("Being vegan is expensive" is a pet peeve of mine... like the S word to homeschoolers!)

 

 

Also, food allergies. No nuts here.

There are many other vegan foods that contain protein though.

 

I have cycled in and out of veganism for many years. I initially did it for health reason and my health did improve, but not incredibly. I do catch colds much less frequently and with less severity.

 

But-- you don't need to be strictly vegan to reap the health benefits-- you just need to make healthy plant foods (i.e. whole/ not processed plant foods) the main part of your food intake. Especially greens-- you should eat huge amounts of greens. This is something neither vegans nor omnis want to accept-- that some animals products in moderation are ok, with the emphasis on moderation. Like Pollan said, don't eat much, eat mostly plants, and a little meat won't kill you.

[Parker Martin]

Because I don't think Forks Over Knives is accurate in its health information.

[Rosie_0801]

The Forks Over Knives film was actually all about the health benefits -- nothing at all about animal rights or any other "strange philosophy."

 

Diabetes, obesity, heart disease, osteoporosis, cancer, and other diseases are all addressed in light of a plant-based diet.

 

I had previously given very little thought to a plant-based diet (the film never uses the term 'vegan' -- that was just me here in this thread) and was surprised to find myself considering a big change in my diet.

 

As far as I know, there's no health difference in regards to those diseases between vegan and a very low animal product diet, so I figure the best thing to do is eat as little in the way of animal products as your body will allow. Putting aside people's preferences (meat can be kinda tasty :P) different bodies will require different amounts of meat/eggs/dairy and our bodies requirements change over time. I had a friend who was a strict vegetarian and she turned into a steakatarian when she was pregnant with her first. We've found our bodies ask for less meat and less often the longer we're on this mostly vegan diet. If Mergath's mum was trying to be vegan, or MelissaMinNC's hubby was trying, they'd find the longer they tried, the more their body would scream for meat. It'd be possible for them to keep trying, but hardly comfortable or practical. I'd assume most vegans would tell them to stop being silly because they were destroying their health.

 

Rosie

[higginszoo]

As long as close attention is paid to making sure the right foods are consumed together for complete proteins to be formed, it can be a very healthy way to eat. Gathering foodstuffs doesn't have to be expensive, but it can be time-consuming, especially in the beginning.

I do believe that some people's bodies are more adaptable to this lifestyle than others, but it's probably not something that can be known until you try it. (I know from trying that it's not really right for me.)

[EmilyK]

The Forks Over Knives film was actually all about the health benefits -- nothing at all about animal rights or any other "strange philosophy."

 

Diabetes, obesity, heart disease, osteoporosis, cancer, and other diseases are all addressed in light of a plant-based diet.

 

I had previously given very little thought to a plant-based diet (the film never uses the term 'vegan' -- that was just me here in this thread) and was surprised to find myself considering a big change in my diet.

 

Thanks for recommending that. I've actually been reading/hearing a lot about the health benefits of veganism in a variety of non-fruitcake sources lately. I don't think it is just an alternative thing anymore.

[gaillardia]

Always a topic that goes off into ...debate.

Nurses at rehab told me that for my heart I should cut WAY back on meat (I don't eat much anyway). That if I wanted to be really healthy and live a long time I should cut it out completely and eat mostly fruits and vegetables.

 

I'm an herb person too and I think there are lots of herbs that can help in the nutritional aspects of eating vegan. I think a lot of vegans don't investigate enough about other plants that could be part of their diet to prevent anemia, for instance.

Too many people think that dairy products are the only right way to get a healthy dose of calcium in the diet. I am not in favor of that thought. Really? We don't see cows standing around suckling one another, they don't drink milk at all!:tongue_smilie:They are vegans.

[Night Elf]

I like meat? I would be very unhappy as a vegan. If I was forced to eat that way because of health, I would do it kicking and screaming. No, that doesn't mean I think it's awful. What I do mean is that I do not believe there is only one way that is the RIGHT way to eat. Honestly, if I listened to every person who has told me how some change in their diet changed their lives, I would probably be eating nothing but ice. But um.. I've even heard that is not healthy either.

[twoforjoy]

Diabetes, obesity, heart disease, osteoporosis, cancer, and other diseases are all addressed in light of a plant-based diet.

 

I've heard proponents of veganism say that there are no fat vegans. That is not true. There are fat vegans. I know some. (And they aren't "chips and candy" vegans; they eat healthy, whole-food vegan diets.)

 

Now, I'm not saying they aren't healthy. I don't equate weight and health. They may indeed be extremely healthy. And, thin vegans may be really unhealthy. I don't know. But, veganism isn't a cure for obesity, and the existence of fat vegans proves that.

[LittleIzumi]

Not true! I eat mostly vegan very very cheaply. Today was roasted cabbage, tomato soup, bananas, and oatmeal cookies. Yesterday was vegan eggplant "parmesan" with a garbanzo based "cheese" sauce. All cheap basic ingredients, no soy products or processed fake dairy/ meat. ("Being vegan is expensive" is a pet peeve of mine... like the S word to homeschoolers!)

 

 

Maybe I just have too high of a metabolism--I would starve on your dinner menu for today and yesterday. That was a big problem of mine when tending towards vegan. I need a ton of protein generally. When I'm pregnant I have 2-3 "normal" dinners just to stay on my feet. I do make some vegan meals (as we also have allergies to eggs and dairy) but I cannot live on it without exceeding my budget and my cooking time with the sheer amount I would personally need to live, lol.

[WishboneDawn]

I don't think there's a good reason not to go vegan if you want to but I don't want to. I'm quite satisfied that one can eat meat and animal products and be healthy.

Edited October 25, 2011 by WishboneDawn

[LisaKinVA]

Please explain the link between diabetes and meat?

 

I understand there is a link between obesity and diabetes, but that doesn't mean there is a causative link between meat, eggs, cheese and diabetes.

 

Diabetes (from the research I've read), is caused by insulin resistance... which is caused by too much sugar in the bloodstream...which can be clinically shown to be caused by eating grains and fruit juices (considered to be healthy).

 

Additionally, these same "diseases" have also been "proven" to be reduced by eating a low-carb diet and both high-healthy-fat and lower-fat diets (essentially eliminating grains, processed foods, hidden sugars), and moderating fruit intake.

 

Beware of studies. There are real, researched, with clinical trials studies... studies that have lots of rules, a control group and at least one test group....testing a specific difference from the control. In the world of nutrition, these are few, and far between.

 

MOST of the nutritional studies bantered about are "observational studies" and don't prove a dad-blame thing. They are easily manipulated, and subject to the biases of the person reading the observations.

[redsquirrel]

as an almost lifelong vegetarian who has gone in and out of veganism I can at least attest to my truth that veganism is NOT expensive. I cannot believe how much meat costs. Every now and then I wonder what we are missing by not eating meat, but then I look at the cost of hamburger or a package of chicken and cannot imagine fitting that into our budget.

 

Beans, rice, veggies and fruit are cheap. There is a reason why much of the world doesn't eat much meat. I spend a lot less on groceries than most people I know. When I read articles in magazines about saving money, one of the first things suggested is having one or two meat free days to cut back on costs.

 

Now, if I ate a bunch of fake meat and stuff like that, I could spend a lot, yes. But I never have and I feed my family just fine. We don't eat organic for most things. I don't buy any specialty products. I shop at the main grocery store in town. We travel and never have problems finding something to eat.

 

So, people eat what you want to eat and make those decisions that work for you. But, if you are interested in consuming fewer animal products, don't be put off by cost.

[pqr]

Because animals are tasty.

 

Well put.

 

Always remember there is a place for all God's creatures, for many of them it is right next to the corn and potatoes!

[LibraryLover]

Climate & availability are two reasons we are not vegan. I can raise chickens for meat and eggs 12 mos of the year. I am more dependant on others if I take those foods out of our diet. I'm more a 'locavore'. Lots of people in my area raise organic/grass fed animals year 'round with various pocessing times. Raw milk in (glass bottles) is easy to get here etc. I don't see how we can raise vegan foods throughout the year. here. :) If I need protein (which I do) I go to my barn for eggs. I freeze and can from my garden and from local growers. I buy local veggies that store (There's a whole heap of squash of all kinds in my kitchen presently. :) (I will not say I come close to *only* buying local. I have to go to the market, but I try to be selective.)

 

I can't raise tofu, although i could make it. I don't know anyone in town growing organic soy, or soy at all. (btw, many soy products are not organic. Commercial soy is some big mess. (I do know not all vegans eat soy.) Although I really like tofu. I really like everything. :lol: I can enjoy juiced kale and tomato as easily as I enjoy a piece of chicken or cow. I don't support factory farming. I wish I grew quiona. :)

 

Somebody shut me up. lol

Edited October 25, 2011 by LibraryLover

[pqr]

. I don't support factory farming.

 

I do, it means that most people in this nation can actually afford meat.

 

Compare the price of "free range X or organically fed Y" to the prices for "regular" meat, chicken or eggs, there are many in this nation who simply could not afford animal protein were it not for factory farming.

 

Of course some of the best meat is Bambi and that only costs a 45 cent bullet for a hundred lbs or so and Bambi IS free range.

[LittleIzumi]

Climate & availability are two reasons we are not vegan. I can raise chickens for meat and eggs all year round. I am more dependant on others if I take those foods out of our diet. I'm more a 'locavore'. Lots of people raise organic/grass fed animals years 'round with various pocessing times. There is nobody here raising vegan foods throughout the year. If I need protein (which I do) I go to my barn for eggs. I don't raise tofu.

 

Although I really like tofu. I really like everything. :lol: I enjoy glass of juiced kale and tomato as easily as I enjoy a piece of chicken or cow. I don't support factory farming.

 

:lol::lol: I do like tofu in place of eggs, since ds is allergic, but yeah, I can't really grow that or pick it up at the farmer's market.

[LittleIzumi]

I do, it means that most people in this nation can actually afford meat.

 

Compare the price of "free range X or organically fed Y" to the prices for "regular" meat, chicken or eggs, there are many in this nation who simply could not afford animal protein were it not for factory farming.

 

I personally would rather eat mostly vegetarian or vegan and only add in meat when needed and have that be "happy meat" than eat meat every day factory farmed. Personally. We use tax returns to fill up the deep freezer with a quarter of a very happy local cow, and that plus some chicken from the "farmer's market" store lasts us all year.

[pqr]

I personally would rather eat mostly vegetarian or vegan and only add in meat when needed and have that be "happy meat" than eat meat every day factory farmed. Personally. We use tax returns to fill up the deep freezer with a quarter of a very happy local cow, and that plus some chicken from the "farmer's market" store lasts us all year.

 

...but many others simply want meat and while you may be able to afford a "happy cow" they just want a dead one.

[Anita in NC]

My two sons and I are vegetarians, we just can't seem to make that final leap to become vegans.

 

We don't eat many eggs but do eat cheese. We'd really miss cheese.

[celticmom]

Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon questions whether a vegan diet can be as healthy as a more varied diet. There would probably also be similiar information available from the Weston A. Price Foundation.

[LisaKinVA]

Regarding the prices of meat (organic vs. factory). As an FYI, the government heavily subsidizes the production of factory meat, and actually "fines" organic producers with lots of additional fees. Part of the cost-disparity is due to government policies.

[Mommy22alyns]

Why I don't want to be a vegan? 'Cause I love cheese. And darnit, I like meat too. :tongue_smilie:

[ondreeuh]

As long as close attention is paid to making sure the right foods are consumed together for complete proteins to be formed, it can be a very healthy way to eat.

 

It's true that a vegan diet should be varied in order to include all the amino acids, but there is nothing special about eating foods at the same meal to make "complete proteins." Your body will use what you eat, whenever you eat it. :001_smile:

[WishboneDawn]

as an almost lifelong vegetarian who has gone in and out of veganism I can at least attest to my truth that veganism is NOT expensive. I cannot believe how much meat costs. Every now and then I wonder what we are missing by not eating meat, but then I look at the cost of hamburger or a package of chicken and cannot imagine fitting that into our budget.

 

Beans, rice, veggies and fruit are cheap. There is a reason why much of the world doesn't eat much meat. I spend a lot less on groceries than most people I know. When I read articles in magazines about saving money, one of the first things suggested is having one or two meat free days to cut back on costs.

 

Now, if I ate a bunch of fake meat and stuff like that, I could spend a lot, yes. But I never have and I feed my family just fine. We don't eat organic for most things. I don't buy any specialty products. I shop at the main grocery store in town. We travel and never have problems finding something to eat.

 

So, people eat what you want to eat and make those decisions that work for you. But, if you are interested in consuming fewer animal products, don't be put off by cost.

 

:iagree:I can easily see that veganism could be done for cheaper then a meat diet. I'm not vegan or vegetarian but this idea that eating vegan is somehow more expensive never made sense to me.

 

We're working on making our meat and animal products consumption more ethical by buying from local, ethical producers and raising some of our own but veganism would likely be a cheaper option.

[ondreeuh]

We ate mostly vegetarian/vegan for a couple of years, and we did it very cheaply. If you cook from scratch and use natural foods (not fake meat substitutes) then it's a great way to eat, provided that your body can handle carbs. That said, I personally tired of it. I just don't have the time or energy to get too exotic with my cooking, and I felt like we were eating the same things all the time. Bean dishes with Mexican spices, tofu/veggie dishes with Thai spices, lentil dishes with Indian spices, pasta & beans with Italian spices ... and start over again. Being heavily reliant on produce meant I was going to the store at least every week. Now I live on the edge of the world in Alaska, and since we have no stores we can only get produce about once a month when someone flies it in. I now cook meat about 5 days a week (mostly salmon and chicken) because I can pull it from the freezer and build a meal around it. I find that eating more meat has improved my energy. I believe I am at least somewhat insulin resistant and all the beans & rice weren't so kind to me. This diet feels better to me.

 

Interestingly, the traditional diet here is almost all meat (salmon, halibut, seal, shellfish) with a a bit of berries. I don't think I could eat that much meat, but Natives did well on that diet for generations. Now Natives have problems with obesity & diabetes due to adopting a high-grain Western diet (including junk food), so I don't think that meat is what makes a diet unhealthy.

[MeaganS]

My husband and I watched that film a few days ago as well, and we talked about it quite a bit. I really felt like the movie was very skewed in how it presented information and that they presented some facts with twisted language to make you believe they were saying something that they weren't. It had a lot of good and interesting information, but it is not a documentary I would take at face value, for sure. I 100% agree that Americans should be eating a much higher percentage of plant-based foods right now, but I don't think veganism is the only way to go. There were several times when people said to eat meat sparingly in the movie. Those groups in China did eat some meat, and that was what that major study were based on.

 

Also, I don't think diet will cure most people's cancers, but I do think it can help 95% of people who are sick or not. As a country we eat very poorly, and we should be working much better towards that. It's a proven fact that a good diet is one of the best preventative measures for many, many of our current "epidemics."

 

Now, I don't eat vegan because I love meat and dairy, have no moral issue with eating animals, and think that the health benefits are mostly there with a sensible, plant-focused diet. We do try to keep meat and dairy to a minimum around here, for both price and health, though.

[Rosie_0801]

As long as close attention is paid to making sure the right foods are consumed together for complete proteins to be formed, it can be a very healthy way to eat.

 

Apparently that has been disproven. As long as the necessary ingredients are being eaten, our bodies can scrounge together what they need. They don't have to be eaten in the same meal.

 

Maybe I just have too high of a metabolism--I would starve on your dinner menu for today and yesterday. That was a big problem of mine when tending towards vegan. I need a ton of protein generally. When I'm pregnant I have 2-3 "normal" dinners just to stay on my feet. I do make some vegan meals (as we also have allergies to eggs and dairy) but I cannot live on it without exceeding my budget and my cooking time with the sheer amount I would personally need to live, lol.

 

That's why I was talking about our requirements changing. What you can manage when you have teenagers in the house and what you can manage when you have tots and only get one good night of sleep per month is quite different. I eat less when I'm allowed to sleep. :glare:

 

Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon questions whether a vegan diet can be as healthy as a more varied diet. There would probably also be similiar information available from the Weston A. Price Foundation.

 

I question some of Sally Fallon's ideas because I can't figure out her footnotes. I seem to have packed my book away somewhere, but if anyone has theirs handy, she uses something short, three capital letters, I think, in a lot of the side boxes. Does anyone know what that is?

 

We ate mostly vegetarian/vegan for a couple of years, and we did it very cheaply. If you cook from scratch and use natural foods (not fake meat substitutes) then it's a great way to eat, provided that your body can handle carbs.

 

Keep reading. Vegans don't have to be high carb. There's grain free vegans out there too :rofl:

 

Rosie

Edited October 25, 2011 by Rosie_0801

[LittleIzumi]

:iagree:I can easily see that veganism could be done for cheaper then a meat diet. I'm not vegan or vegetarian but this idea that eating vegan is somehow more expensive never made sense to me.

 

We're working on making our meat and animal products consumption more ethical by buying from local, ethical producers and raising some of our own but veganism would likely be a cheaper option.

 

I suppose it's not necessarily more expensive, but if you google vegan recipes, you get a long list of recipes with things that I would have to go & buy that I have never heard of or used before--a quick search brought up arrowroot, tamarind, agave, tempeh, nutritional yeast (although I do own that now), vital wheat gluten, ground cashews, sunflower oil, pepitas, fava beans, tamari, and so forth. In browsing several of the "top" sites Google gave me for that list, I only found two recipes that contained entirely ingredients I know how to use, lol.

[Rosie_0801]

I suppose it's not necessarily more expensive, but if you google vegan recipes, you get a long list of recipes with things that I would have to go & buy that I have never heard of or used before--a quick search brought up :

 

Arrowroot- Not essential. It's just a thickener.

Tamarind- An absolutely fabulous ingredient that everyone should try! But not actually essential.

Agave- A sweetener. If you don't mind eating honey or other kinds of sugar, you can use them as you always have.

Tempeh- A fermented soy product. I can find it in my local supermarket and would be bummed if I lived somewhere I couldn't! It tastes b***** awful if cooked badly, but is Very Tasty cooked well!

Nutritional yeast- I used to use this, but don't bother now.

Vital wheat gluten- Yeah, it beats me why anyone wants this.

Ground cashews- Cashews put through a food processor.

Sunflower oil- You can use any other kind of oil you like.

Pepitas- You can't buy pumpkin seeds? :svengo:

Fava beans- One can lead a happy life without broad beans.

Tamari- A kind of fermented soy sauce, tasty, but not essential.

 

Whenever you try a different style of cooking, it takes a while to work out what the good recipes are and which ones are just making life more difficult than it ought to be. Some vegan cookbooks replace all meat with tofu or seitan. In my opinion, they are as useful as dairy-free cookbooks which have exactly the same recipes as you already have, but with soy instead of dairy milk. Duh, couldn't have thought of that for ourselves, could we? There are other vegan cookbooks that aren't trying to be omnivore replacements and they are much tastier!

 

Btw, of that list, the only one I have in my pantry atm is the pumpkin seeds, though we did eat tempeh on the weekend.

 

:)

Rosie

[Word Nerd]

Because I don't want to be.

[mommaduck]

Anemia, for one. One dd has had problems with that. I have B12 deficiency so that is another reason not to be vegan. Then all of us need calcium which we get a lot from dairy products.

 

While I could potentially see some health benefits for vegetarianism (though not for that one dd nor me), I can't see any health benefits to veganism. It doesn't seem to be based on health but rather on a strange philosophy. I see no reason why dairy and eggs can;t be consumed since they don't kill any animals.

:iagree:

[msjones]

Please explain the link between diabetes and meat?

 

I understand there is a link between obesity and diabetes, but that doesn't mean there is a causative link between meat, eggs, cheese and diabetes.

Diabetes (from the research I've read), is caused by insulin resistance... which is caused by too much sugar in the bloodstream...which can be clinically shown to be caused by eating grains and fruit juices (considered to be healthy).

 

Additionally, these same "diseases" have also been "proven" to be reduced by eating a low-carb diet and both high-healthy-fat and lower-fat diets (essentially eliminating grains, processed foods, hidden sugars), and moderating fruit intake.

 

Beware of studies. There are real, researched, with clinical trials studies... studies that have lots of rules, a control group and at least one test group....testing a specific difference from the control. In the world of nutrition, these are few, and far between.

 

MOST of the nutritional studies bantered about are "observational studies" and don't prove a dad-blame thing. They are easily manipulated, and subject to the biases of the person reading the observations.

 

I didn't mean to imply a connection between meat and diabetes -- one of my posts may have been written unclearly. My apologies...

[LaxMom]

All vegans I've ever known have been classic pitta types: thin, angular, dry, poor color, high strung. Not saying there is a causal relationship, but it is a common enough pairing for me to notice a pattern.

 

And for the record: grazing animals are not vegan. They eat bugs and whatnot as they graze. Not being a flesh eater is not synonymous with being vegan.

[msjones]

Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon questions whether a vegan diet can be as healthy as a more varied diet. There would probably also be similiar information available from the Weston A. Price Foundation.

 

Thank you for these references!

[Rosie_0801]

While I could potentially see some health benefits for vegetarianism (though not for that one dd nor me), I can't see any health benefits to veganism. It doesn't seem to be based on health but rather on a strange philosophy. I see no reason why dairy and eggs can;t be consumed since they don't kill any animals.

 

I missed this before. The health reason for avoiding dairy and eggs is they also contain animal protein.

 

Rosie

[ktgrok]

My reasoning is that it isn't a natural diet for a human. Go out in the woods or jungle and try to live as a vegan, without modern agriculture. You won't last long. Man is designed to eat meat products. The problem is that in our society our meats are raised on grains and toxins, and THAT is why meat seems to harm our health. Grassfed beef is an amazing source of omega 3 fatty acids, CLA, and other nutrients. But supermarket beef is a different thing entirely. Personally I was vegan for 2 years, and vegetarian for 10, and I'm much healthier eating a paleo/primal style diet. It is what we are evolved/designed to eat.

[ktgrok]

Oh, and I think the benefits people mention come from eating more vegetables, not from taking out meat/eggs. I think the typical vegan eats a lot of veggies and fruits. The typical meat eater does not. I think the healthiest, and most scientific diet, is one based on veggies by volume and meat by calorie percent.

[Jennifer in MI]

Honestly? I would love to be vegan! I feel better when I eat that way. But, I have a son with food allergies. ALL nuts are out of the question for him. So, my couple of months here and there where I'm vegan have all been extremely difficult because I have to cook mostly different meals for me. It's too much work.

 

For now? I have a couple vegan cookbooks and I'm cooking a new recipe every week. Last week my bean-haters LOVED the spicy bean burgers!!! They also loved the lentil loaf! I'm hoping to gradually move our family toward a more vegetarian/vegan diet.

 

For us it's mostly about money. I like to save it and spend it on fun stuff. Food is a necessity and therefore, not fun stuff!!!! LOL

 

I do love a good filet every now and then!!!

[Susann]

But what would I put A-1 on?:D

[redsquirrel]

I suppose it's not necessarily more expensive, but if you google vegan recipes, you get a long list of recipes with things that I would have to go & buy that I have never heard of or used before--a quick search brought up arrowroot, tamarind, agave, tempeh, nutritional yeast (although I do own that now), vital wheat gluten, ground cashews, sunflower oil, pepitas, fava beans, tamari, and so forth. In browsing several of the "top" sites Google gave me for that list, I only found two recipes that contained entirely ingredients I know how to use, lol.

 

 

Of all those items, I only have vital wheat gluten and I use that for baking bread. I know what they are and what they are used for, I have never needed them. Well, on occasion I like nutritional yeast on popcorn but since my son got braces we are popcorn free. Tamari is pretty much the same thing as soy sauce. I know, I know, it is from a different source etc, but it is interchangeable unless there are gluten issues.

 

Again, we eat very well with no specialty ingredients. I am not now vegan but we could be with a minimum of fuss, if we so desired. In fact, I would save even more money because I wouldn't be buying yogurt or cheese sticks for snacks. :lol:

 

Maybe it is because I have been a vegetarian for over 30 years that I don't feel the need for fancy ingredients etc? I mean, I can use them. I have done so when I was living alone and had all the time in the world to cook, and someone to impress, lol. But, those days are long gone and things like cooking are simpler.

 

Someday I will make my squash risotto with truffle oil or a white pizza with roasted fennel and smoked white beans or kung pao tofu etc etc. But not any time soon. Le sigh.