when your child simply refuses to do schoolwork?

[butterflymommy]

Does anyone else have a child who simply refuses to do the assigned schoolwork? I know there are some of you out there!

 

I have a very bright 8 year old who is flat out refusing to do her assignments. My normal punishment for not doing assignments is loss of TV and computer privileges (which includes video games). This works on all my other kids but no longer works on DD 8. She doesn't care. I give her menial work to do. She does the menial work and still doesn't care. I tell her she can't get up from the table until she finishes the assignment. She has sat the whole day at the table-- doodling, crying, talking & singing to herself, putting on puppet plays with her hands, or just sitting there staring into space. For hours on end.

 

I have switched curriculum a few times but it makes no difference. She admits the work is easy but she finds it boring, so she doesn't want to do it. I've tried more difficult work, easier work, it makes no difference.

 

I don't think school would be any better (not that it's really an option) because I faced similar battles when she was in school-- getting out of bed, getting dressed, doing homework, etc..

 

She is a very sweet child in every other way, will do just about anything I ask of her (other than schoolwork), is nice to her siblings, hardly ever raises her voice... she just hates school. I'm at a loss at the point :confused:. Anyone else have a kid like this?

[Xanadu]

I would say it's a matter of the curriculum being either to easy or to difficult, and to change it up. But since you have already tried that the only thing left to do is have her pick the curriculum.

 

(If you've already taken away all privileges and she's still not motivated you have to give her the ability to have some say in what she does.)

 

Explain that school isn't a choice, but what she chooses to study can be. Step back and let her do some self-directed learning (taking a topic and running with it) or tell her you have to at least do X, Y & Z, and then let her pick a curriculum she likes and order it. (This was recommended by the TWTM author in her audio series if all else fails to motivate a student, she even recommended the rainbow resource catalog as the one to use..:)

 

I feel for you, I've been in your shoes....Fortunately taking every single toy out of our son's room 2 years ago and bagging it all up in trash bags we stored in the garage was the motivator we needed to get him on track. (He had to earn every single toy back, one toy a day....and that was only after he started doing his schoolwork) Now we just have to say...."Would you like me to go get the black trash bags?" whenever he gets defiant about schoolwork and he buckles right back down.

Edited October 17, 2011 by Xanadu
spelling

[ChandlerMom]

Does anyone else have a child who simply refuses to do the assigned schoolwork? I know there are some of you out there!

 

I have a very bright 8 year old who is flat out refusing to do her assignments. My normal punishment for not doing assignments is loss of TV and computer privileges (which includes video games). This works on all my other kids but no longer works on DD 8. She doesn't care. I give her menial work to do. She does the menial work and still doesn't care. I tell her she can't get up from the table until she finishes the assignment. She has sat the whole day at the table-- doodling, crying, talking & singing to herself, putting on puppet plays with her hands, or just sitting there staring into space. For hours on end.

 

I have switched curriculum a few times but it makes no difference. She admits the work is easy but she finds it boring, so she doesn't want to do it. I've tried more difficult work, easier work, it makes no difference.

 

I don't think school would be any better (not that it's really an option) because I faced similar battles when she was in school-- getting out of bed, getting dressed, doing homework, etc..

 

She is a very sweet child in every other way, will do just about anything I ask of her (other than schoolwork), is nice to her siblings, hardly ever raises her voice... she just hates school. I'm at a loss at the point :confused:. Anyone else have a kid like this?

 

At the first sign of "I won't because it's boring" I ask if they really think it's FUN to make their lunches, change their diapers (when they were younger), etc, etc. I have told them that I will *try* to make things fun, but some stuff just isn't and you've got to do it anyway. Next time it came up I put on a show: they'd want lunch and I'd say, "Oh, making lunch is sooo BORING, I don't feel like it" and make them wait an extra hour and then just gave them (healthy) snack foods; not put their laundry away and when they came complaining they couldn't find any pants, "Sorry, but I didn't feel like doing laundry this week because it is soooo BORING." By the time I said, "hey let's go to the park. Nevermind, driving there is sooo BORING for me," they had gotten the message ....so far, they have not dared use that line on me again.

 

Your dd is probably too stubborn for that to work, but it is reasonable to explain to her that life isn't just about doing the things you want and expect her to understand. I think your choices are to either give her ownership/responsibility to control part of her schedule (maybe WHEN she does each subject) or to go nuclear and cut off every.last.thing. until she decides to get with the program. Good luck! Maybe someone here has a better 3rd option!

 

PS: should mention, whenever possible I TRY to say yes to the kiddos, so they have a TON of free time and control over their own lives, so we give the 90% negotiables. BUT the 10% is non-negotiable and the kiddos realize mom's crazy enough that it's not worth trying to argue the non-negotiables. :lol: Having a good attitude in homeschool is non-negotiable.

 

@Xanadu: I agree and believe that a big part is that the kid believes you are willing to follow through (what I call going nuclear, which to me doesn't require raising your voice, just means jumping the escalation to a point far beyond the price the kid wants to pay -- maybe saying "go all in" is more accurate). The calmer and less ruffled you are, the more effective.

Edited October 17, 2011 by ChandlerMom

[Down_the_Rabbit_Hole]

This could be a "who's in charge" thing. How do you get her to do other things she does not want to do...brush teeth, clean room, chores. If obedience is an issue I would put school on hold for a while and work on this issue. Having a child that young dictate whether she is or isn't going to do something that her parents deem important to do will just escalate.

 

With that said.....it could also be a learning problem.

The work she refuses to do, is it given to her to do independently? If so, maybe sit with her and go over each problem with her. See if working one problem at at time together helps. Does she do workbooks? Do more oral work. Change how school is done. Let her know you will spend x amount of time doing math or x # of problems and then she can have a break to do something enjoyable. Set timers for both work and breaks. Do school away from the table, snuggled on the couch or on a quilt.

[redsquirrel]

ahh, those bright 8 year olds. They can really be a challenge. I have so been there, the sweet child who just WON'T.

 

We did lots of sitting at the table while I said "We have nothing else to do today except school"

 

I gave him a lap size dry erase board with our assignments for the day listed and told him he was in charge of getting it done. He had to sit there (food and bathroom breaks of course!) until it was done. I was there to instruct, but not direct the day. If he wanted to be doing school until midnight that was his prerogative. If he wanted to do an assignment on his own, that was his business, if he needed instruction let me know. Other than that, I was out of the process.

 

Ummm.. let's see, what else have we done....

 

Scheduled tentative playdates with friends late in the day with the understanding it only happens if school worked happens. Oh, all school work must be up to my standards, btw. No shoddy work and calling it done.

 

A couple times when he announced he wasn't doing school I got out a mop and a bucket and told him to mop the kitchen floor, and if it wasn't good enough or sloppy I would make him do it again.

 

I send him to his room to say until he agreed to do school with good attitude.

 

 

Yeah, 8 was a suck year.

 

But, I am happy to tell you that at 11 he is still a sweet boy and he does his school work with a good attitude. He has his bad days, like all of us, but no refusals. He takes ownership of his work and still makes his schedule up every morning. I can leave the house for an hour and he does his math and other things without needing to be told. He just does what is expected because he knows he should.

 

We got through it together, but I wouldn't want to do it again.

 

Oh, I think we had several family meetings where I told him that if he didn't stop giving me a hassle I was enrolling him in ps.

 

Everything worked, but only for a couple weeks and then it would start again. The good times got longer and longer with the difficult times getting shorter. But there were some really, really bad weeks. I don't want to mislead you.

 

So, get some ideas that work for you but expect that you will have to try many things and just get through this. No one thing is going to make it go away like magic.

[Critterfixer]

I'm deleting this one, as too many people have misunderstood the meaning.

Edited October 17, 2011 by Critterfixer
Too many misunderstandings

[butterflymommy]

I would say it's a matter of the curriculum being either to easy or to difficult, and to change it up. But since you have already tried that the only thing left to do is have her pick the curriculum.

 

I've tried this, and have also tried self directed learning. All she wants to do is draw pictures and write stories. I guess that's better than nothing (art, language arts) but she isn't interested in math, science, history. I feel if I just let her go with the drawing and story writing I'm essentially unschooling, which I don't want to do-- if for no other reason than I don't want to ruin the work ethic the other kids have developed. If she unschools, they'll expect to have the same option.

Explain that school isn't a choice, but what she chooses to study can be.

Yes, I tried this too, I explained that we live in a state with very strict homeschooling laws, and that I have to submit quarterly reports, grades, and have her take a standardized test each year. She remains unphased.

 

I feel for you, I've been in your shoes....Fortunately taking every single toy out of our son's room 2 years ago and bagging it all up in trash bags we stored in the garage was the motivator we needed to get him on track.

I've thought of this, taking everything out of her room except the bed and her clothes, but do I take away the pencils and notebooks too? Because she would be perfectly happy just to draw all day in an empty room.

[butterflymommy]

This could be a "who's in charge" thing. How do you get her to do other things she does not want to do...brush teeth, clean room, chores. If obedience is an issue I would put school on hold for a while and work on this issue. Having a child that young dictate whether she is or isn't going to do something that her parents deem important to do will just escalate.

 

She is a very sweet, compliant kid in every other respect. She just totally shuts down when it's "school."

 

With that said.....it could also be a learning problem.

The work she refuses to do, is it given to her to do independently? If so, maybe sit with her and go over each problem with her. See if working one problem at at time together helps. Does she do workbooks? Do more oral work. Change how school is done. Let her know you will spend x amount of time doing math or x # of problems and then she can have a break to do something enjoyable. Set timers for both work and breaks. Do school away from the table, snuggled on the couch or on a quilt.

I've given her the option to do it orally, I've tried sitting with her and going through each problem one by one. I've done timers, changed locations. My homeschooling bag of tricks is empty!

[butterflymommy]

If you do not get up, get dressed and report to the table by eight am, there will be no breakfast. If assigned work is not completed in the time given (I suggest you give her what you know she can complete during these times) there will be no break. If lunch comes, and work is not done, there will be no lunch--and she gets a fail on that work. Which means she has to complete it for homework, and the big fat 0 gets posted on her chart. If she does not complete her homework before dinner--well, you get the idea.

 

I'm usually not afraid to be tough but she hardly eats as it is, and is clinically underweight. So I don't think I'd go down the food deprivation route.

[Haiku]

If you do not get up, get dressed and report to the table by eight am, there will be no breakfast. If assigned work is not completed in the time given (I suggest you give her what you know she can complete during these times) there will be no break. If lunch comes, and work is not done, there will be no lunch--and she gets a fail on that work. Which means she has to complete it for homework, and the big fat 0 gets posted on her chart. If she does not complete her homework before dinner--well, you get the idea. All "fun" activities should be earned. Once she is completing her tasks on time for thirty days, then she can have "fun" stuff added back in, WHEN she has done her work.

 

Yup. Nothing else happens until school is done. NOTHING. When my kids act lazy and uncooperative and then want something from me, I tell them that their bad attitudes make me feel like I don't want to do anything for them. Sometimes I will do it anyway and point out I am choosing to do it because I know it's the right thing to do. Sometimes I just say no. I tell my kids that if they won't cooperate with me, I am less willing to make their lives easier/more fun.

 

Were it my kid, nothing else would be happening unless she does her schoolwork. And that includes weekends. She sits at the school table all day, seven days a week, until she gets her work done.

 

Tara

[caedmyn]

I've thought of this, taking everything out of her room except the bed and her clothes, but do I take away the pencils and notebooks too? Because she would be perfectly happy just to draw all day in an empty room.

 

I haven't dealt with it, but I'd say, if that's what she really wants to do, that's your leverage right there. No drawing, no writing stories, until her schoolwork is done. Which means removing absolutely everything she can use to do it (and I guess if she's still doodling in the margins I'd consider making her do everything orally). If she doesn't get it done one day, she goes to bed at bedtime and starts right back up with it first thing in the morning. If possible, don't even take her out of the house until her schoolwork is done for the day.

[Deniseibase]

It really sounds like you have tried every option that you can do on your own. I would therefore suggest that you get some outside help. This might be a behavior problem, it might be a learning difficulty, it might be a bit of both. Try asking your pastor or your family doctor to recommend a family therapist who can help you get to the bottom of what is going on here and get you back on track to fix it.

[ThreeBlessings]

If you haven't already, I would explain to the child that doing school is THE LAW. When she refuses to do her schoolwork she is breaking the law and causing you to break the law. You could get into trouble for truancy and/or have problems with CPS. This is not a threat towards her, it is the TRUTH and a FACT that she needs to know in my opinion. I would set her down and have a good, long discussion on the what the consequences for her actions could be.

 

Then I would have her help make a plan for school. Would she prefer doing only one subject per day in an extra long session? Would she prefer each subject in small bites every day? Would a written plan for her day or week be helpful? My son really likes seeing the plan for the day prior to starting, it helps him know what is expected of him that day. What subjects does she like least and how could the two of you go about making it acceptable, oral work, written work, living books, narration, videos, notebooking, keeping a drawing/writing/note taking journal, setting a timer, etc? Only doing her least favorite subject once or twice a week (unless it is Math)? Getting rid of some subjects altogether for awhile, such as Latin or other foreign language, vocabulary, Spelling if she is a natural speller, etc. You decide what is truly important to you to do and make sure she knows what isn't negotiable. Make a solid plan with her, insist she sticks with it and comes to you respectfully and maturely with any ideas for changes that she may have. Promise you will take her ideas into consideration and do your best to meet her needs whenever possible.

[FO4UR]

:bigear:

 

 

I've got an 8yo too...he tries to negotiate everything away...and he doesn't stop with school. He is going to great things with his steadfastness and communication skills someday, but right now he is a BEAR to teach and train.

 

 

Redsquirrel's post gives me hope. LOL I can be more stubborn than an 8yo for a while longer...

 

I have to be VERY clear about expectations. I tell him exactly why I have him doing each thing. (You have to read/write/math in order to choose what you want to be when you grow up. You can't be an archaeologist if you don't know your math. You can't be an archaeologist who writes articles in magazines if you can't write ...spelling, grammar...) This is still not enough for the daily grind, but it's all I can contribute to this thread.:tongue_smilie:

[AnnaM]

Ok so I may be way over simplifying how much difficulty you are actually having but have you thought about doing a workbox system? It helped my defiant child to see what she had to do, what was finished and when it would be finished. It also allows me to throw in surprises that make school a bit more exciting. She now knows that there is no point in asking when school we be done, because school is done when the boxes are empty. When she has a great week, I might skip doing a lesson and give her a treat (an extra snack, stickers, coloring book, or whatever your child's currency is). The visualization of what we have to do has really helped.

[Critterfixer]

I'm usually not afraid to be tough but she hardly eats as it is, and is clinically underweight. So I don't think I'd go down the food deprivation route.

Why will she not eat? Does she have food allergies or texture issues, or will she eat only what she wants and nothing that you make that isn't on her personal list of things she wants?

 

I don't think school would be any better (not that it's really an option) because I faced similar battles when she was in school-- getting out of bed, getting dressed, doing homework, etc..

 

When she was in school, how were her grades? When you spoke to her teacher during that time, what issues did the teacher have with her? Did she sit there and not do her work? At school, did she eat or refuse to eat?

Edited October 17, 2011 by Critterfixer

[Corraleno]

She is a very sweet, compliant kid in every other respect. She just totally shuts down when it's "school."

I would arrange for testing (IQ, LDs, learning style) ASAP; I would bet that you have a gifted, visual/spatial learner on your hands, and treating this as a matter of laziness/defiance is not going to get you very far. Their brains are wired differently, they think and learn in very different ways — it's not just a matter of "thinking in pictures." You say that she's extremely compliant in every other way but just "shuts down" over school — that doesn't sound like disobedience or a power struggle to me, that sounds like a kid whose brain is shutting down because she needs to learn in a different way.

 

The suggestions here for punishing her "defiance" by withholding food, or taking pencil and paper away from a child who's only pleasureable outlet at the moment seems to be writing and drawing, just makes me want to cry. I have a kid who was just like yours (extremely bright, very sweet & compliant but hated school, loved to draw, picky eater due to sensory issues, etc), and I can tell you that those tactics would only have made things worse — and would have destroyed our relationship in the process. Now, in 7th grade, he's doing Athenaze Greek, Algebra, ancient history with TC lectures, interest-led science, computer programming & robotics, and he loves homeschooling, loves his life, and is a very happy kid. Because I had him tested, I researched like crazy, and I met his needs, so that he can learn the way his brain works instead of trying to force him to "learn" in ways that absolutely do not work for him.

 

Please don't believe that your DD is just lazy, disobedient, or defiant; she needs your help, not punishment. :(

 

Jackie

[Guest submarines]

I agree that this seems to be more of a defiance of authority rather than a bored to tears issue (although she may be bored to tears with school). You've already had experience with her whining and giving you trouble with getting up, getting dressed, etc. This is where you have to get tough, not soft.

 

If you do not get up, get dressed and report to the table by eight am, there will be no breakfast. If assigned work is not completed in the time given (I suggest you give her what you know she can complete during these times) there will be no break. If lunch comes, and work is not done, there will be no lunch--and she gets a fail on that work. Which means she has to complete it for homework, and the big fat 0 gets posted on her chart. If she does not complete her homework before dinner--well, you get the idea. All "fun" activities should be earned. Once she is completing her tasks on time for thirty days, then she can have "fun" stuff added back in, WHEN she has done her work.

 

If you find that she is completing the work well, increase the difficulty to challenging, and also increase the amount of subject matter that requires her to read it. Then she will get to dictate her own learning somewhat, but not dictate to you what she will or will not do.

 

With both obesity and eating disorders being such epidemics for young adults, and so many people have messed up relationship with food...errrr...HOW is that a good idea???? :confused: :confused: :confused:

[ssexton]

I would arrange for testing (IQ, LDs, learning style) ASAP; I would bet that you have a gifted, visual/spatial learner on your hands, and treating this as a matter of laziness/defiance is not going to get you very far. Their brains are wired differently, they think and learn in very different ways — it's not just a matter of "thinking in pictures." You say that she's extremely compliant in every other way but just "shuts down" over school — that doesn't sound like disobedience or a power struggle to me, that sounds like a kid whose brain is shutting down because she needs to learn in a different way.

 

:iagree:

[Farrar]

I deeply bothers me when I see people suggest using basic food (not treats, desserts, favorite foods, but basic meals) as a disciplinary tool. Please, please do not do that, folks. There are so, so many reasons not to.

 

I think different kids need different approaches - get tough, relax a little, do a combination...

 

Just a small thought, but one of the experiences I do have with kids who say everything is "so boring and easy" is that there are often unrecognized learning disabilities at play. Acting like your math work is childishly beneath you is a great way to cover up that you have no idea how to do it, for example. No clue if that's at play here, but I thought I'd suggest it.

 

I agree that this seems to be more of a defiance of authority rather than a bored to tears issue (although she may be bored to tears with school). You've already had experience with her whining and giving you trouble with getting up, getting dressed, etc. This is where you have to get tough, not soft.

 

If you do not get up, get dressed and report to the table by eight am, there will be no breakfast. If assigned work is not completed in the time given (I suggest you give her what you know she can complete during these times) there will be no break. If lunch comes, and work is not done, there will be no lunch--and she gets a fail on that work. Which means she has to complete it for homework, and the big fat 0 gets posted on her chart. If she does not complete her homework before dinner--well, you get the idea. All "fun" activities should be earned. Once she is completing her tasks on time for thirty days, then she can have "fun" stuff added back in, WHEN she has done her work.

 

If you find that she is completing the work well, increase the difficulty to challenging, and also increase the amount of subject matter that requires her to read it. Then she will get to dictate her own learning somewhat, but not dictate to you what she will or will not do.

[Clear Creek]

I would arrange for testing (IQ, LDs, learning style) ASAP; I would bet that you have a gifted, visual/spatial learner on your hands, and treating this as a matter of laziness/defiance is not going to get you very far. Their brains are wired differently, they think and learn in very different ways — it's not just a matter of "thinking in pictures." You say that she's extremely compliant in every other way but just "shuts down" over school — that doesn't sound like disobedience or a power struggle to me, that sounds like a kid whose brain is shutting down because she needs to learn in a different way.

 

The suggestions here for punishing her "defiance" by withholding food, or taking pencil and paper away from a child who's only pleasureable outlet at the moment seems to be writing and drawing, just makes me want to cry. I have a kid who was just like yours (extremely bright, very sweet & compliant but hated school, loved to draw, picky eater due to sensory issues, etc), and I can tell you that those tactics would only have made things worse — and would have destroyed our relationship in the process. Now, in 7th grade, he's doing Athenaze Greek, Algebra, ancient history with TC lectures, interest-led science, computer programming & robotics, and he loves homeschooling, loves his life, and is a very happy kid. Because I had him tested, I researched like crazy, and I met his needs, so that he can learn the way his brain works instead of trying to force him to "learn" in ways that absolutely do not work for him.

 

Please don't believe that your DD is just lazy, disobedient, or defiant; she needs your help, not punishment. :(

 

Jackie

 

 

I have been following this thread very closely today...I could have written the original post word-for-word (except my dd is a 7yo). I googled visual-spatial learner and it describes my dd so well I should probably be paranoid that someone is watching her through our windows and taking notes! :lol:

 

My question is, what curriculum is good for teaching a visual-spatial learner? Obviously R&S Math (very parts-to-whole, drill and repetition) is not a good fit for my dd. Nor is R&S Phonics (although after dragging her through grade 1 and part of grade 2, she is an excellent reader). These two are the most difficult to use with her, and cause most of the problems. I already dropped R&S Reading (her reading comprehension is unbelievable, as is her ability to sequence events), now we just use the readers for practice reading aloud...and she wants me to ask her comprehension questions after she finishes reading, because she knows that she will get the answer right!:D

 

So what do you (or anyone else with experience with a visual-spatial learner) recommend we use? I am very sequential and parts-to-whole, as is my oldest child, which is why we are using R&S. But it is not working with my second child. In fact, I would almost have to say that she is learning well in spite of what we use, not because of it.

[Ellie]

I've tried this, and have also tried self directed learning. All she wants to do is draw pictures and write stories. I guess that's better than nothing (art, language arts) but she isn't interested in math, science, history. I feel if I just let her go with the drawing and story writing I'm essentially unschooling, which I don't want to do-- if for no other reason than I don't want to ruin the work ethic the other kids have developed. If she unschools, they'll expect to have the same option.

But many of us unschoolers can recount stories of our own children who were anything except work-ethic-less. :-)

 

When you say you "tried," how long was that? And you know that "even" unschoolers do things like field trips, and watch educational TV, and go to the library, and their dc participate in scouting groups, sports, and so on--all of which are amazingly educational. Unschooling doesn't mean that the parents are completely hands-off.

 

Given that her behavior is normally sweetness and light, and that all of your efforts to make her Do School have failed to accomplish anything, seems to me that you're left with unschooling, at least for awhile.

[ssexton]

One other thought, have you considered utilizing notebooking in her work? You could harness her interest in drawing and doodling to create narrations. There have been lots of wonderful resources discussed here if you do a search on notebooking. I love Harmony Art Mom's blog to get started: http://harmonyartmom.blogspot.com/

[Homemama2]

I have switched curriculum a few times but it makes no difference. She admits the work is easy but she finds it boring, so she doesn't want to do it. I've tried more difficult work, easier work, it makes no difference.

 

I don't think school would be any better (not that it's really an option) because I faced similar battles when she was in school-- getting out of bed, getting dressed, doing homework, etc..

 

She is a very sweet child in every other way, will do just about anything I ask of her (other than schoolwork), is nice to her siblings, hardly ever raises her voice... she just hates school

 

She sounds like a very sweet child who just likes to have her own way (don't we all? ;))

 

If you really believe the work is not too easy for her, then she just needs to learn to obey. My youngest had this issue as well. For him, I told him it was school time, period. If he didn't want to do his work, then he could stand in the corner until he was ready to work. He couldn't sit, lean on anything, talk/whine/grumble etc. He could only stand (because it is more uncomfortable.) If I had let him SIT, he would have been happy to sit there until graduation! He was a tough little guy and stood there for quite awhile before getting tired enough to come sit at the table and work. But once the whining started, he was back in the corner. This was a battle for about three days...but once he realized that I would not back down, he quit, and is now a far better worker than his older brother.

Edited October 17, 2011 by Homemama2

[Penelope]

I deeply bothers me when I see people suggest using basic food (not treats, desserts, favorite foods, but basic meals) as a disciplinary tool. Please, please do not do that, folks. There are so, so many reasons not to.

 

I think different kids need different approaches - get tough, relax a little, do a combination...

 

 

 

:iagree: and thank you for saying it. I think this is abusive. :(

 

You may just be having a tough year and have to work harder to figure out what will work, you may need to consider learning differences and difficulties, ou might try workboxes or lists or giving a few more choices, being more hands-on with her, all good suggestions given here. No one can say from a post on a forum.

[SweetMissMagnolia]

sometimes have issues with ds 8 doing similar.....same punishments go for him (no video games etc)---I signed up for Time4Learning online and when I see we're going to have a difficult day sometimes I'll let him do that plus some reading/writing and call it a day and makeup whatever was on schedule another day......:grouphug:

[Whereneverever]

I had a lot of issues with DD 1 over the summer and last year. She'd do anything but school happily.

 

It was so frustrating! I had all these wonderful resources and this plan, and it's what we were SUPPOSED to be doing.

 

But it was misery. For her, for me, for my other children watching the two of us struggle. I even doubted my commitment to homeschooling.

 

I threw out everything that we were doing. Not literally, but all the plans, the ideas, the curricula that everyone told me we needed to be using...

 

We're so much happier now. My daughter is excited to do school and productive.

[sewingmama]

I have a DD very similar to yours except she is 5. She has a will of iron and will happily sit all day at the table singing and doodling if it means not doing her work.

 

All she wants to do is draw pictures and write stories.

 

She does better then my DD -when left alone all she does for hours on end is cut up bits of paper and tape boxes together to make sculptures - I guess it's not a total loss - she has excellent fine motor skills :D

 

Anyway just wanted to throw my suggestion out to you. When my DD starts refusing to do her work I say "Well ok but you can't do any fun stuff until it's finished" and then I walk away. She usually sits there happily for 15 minutes and then I make my ploy ;)

 

I call out loudly to the boys "C'mon do you want to help me make cookies or let's play a game or lets do some art" (anything I know my DD loves to do) and I take them off and start making preparations to do the activity. As soon as my DD sees us heading off to do the "oh so fun thing she loves to do" she starts loudly protesting and I just smile and say "Sure, you can join us as soon as you finish X" - literally seconds later she is at my side with all work completed and correct :glare: (When I do this I make sure it is work she can do on her own - I wouldn't do this if it was something she needed help with).

 

Taking things away from my DD or withholding food or saying things like well we won't go to the park today if you don't finish (a threat) etc never has worked with my DD. She just doesn't care.

 

Watching others do fun things without her is her ticket of care because she sees the immediate result of not doing her work happening right in front of her.;)

Edited October 17, 2011 by sewingmama

[Haiku]

If you really believe the work is not too easy for her, then she just needs to learn to obey. My youngest had this issue as well. For him, I told him it was school time, period. If he didn't want to do his work, then he could stand in the corner until he was ready to work. He couldn't sit, lean on anything, talk/whine/grumble etc. He could only stand (because it is more uncomfortable.) If I had let him SIT, he would have been happy to sit there until graduation! He was a tough little guy and stood there for quite awhile before getting tired enough to come sit at the table and work. But once the whining started, he was back in the corner. This was a battle for about three days...but once he realized that I would not back down, he quit, and is now a far better worker than his older brother.

 

:iagree: I understand that some kids have issues that need professional help or whatever. But really ... sometimes kids just dig in their heels. I think that happens a lot more often than it happens that a kid has some sort of medical or learning issue. I remember being a kid. Sometimes I didn't behave because just didn't want to. I wanted my way and I resented that I couldn't get it. I can't imagine my mom ever catering to that. I just had to do what I was told, and I was punished when I didn't. What I learned was that sometimes I just had to suck it up and do what I had to do. That's a lesson that stands me in good stead now as a mother and wife who has lots of responsibilities. I'm able to accomplish what I need to accomplish because I don't expect anyone to let me off the hook when I'm feeling crabby and lazy or unmotivated. I just have to do what I have to do.

 

I don't necessarily advocate not feeding a child, but I don't think it's abusive to tell a child of the OP's child's age, "If you're not ready for school, we're starting anyway." My dd9 went through a period a few weeks ago where she got up in the morning and read instead of doing her "morning routine." She then wanted me to hold off on starting school so she could have breakfast at school time. I told her no, and that she knew what her responsibilities were. Three mornings with no breakfast over a two-week time period pretty much cured her of her morning dawdling.

 

Tara

[Susie in CA]

I agree with Correlano! I never had my son tested. However, we to had the same issues. These issues still exist. Ds is in 7th grade. He will not do anything if he thinks it's pointless. No punishment or reward ever worked. The things that do work for us are patience (tons of it), constant conversations and discussions, and loads of hands-on-stuff.

 

He is just now getting better. However, the real learning for him happens while doing and discussing. His learning doesn't look like school at all. It never has. Yet, he is extremely bright. He is a very deep thinker and analyzer. I believe that he was born in the rethoric stage, but didn't have the math or language tools to back it up. We are just now catching up to it. Things are getting smoother. Slowly.

[Mommyfaithe]

I would arrange for testing (IQ, LDs, learning style) ASAP; I would bet that you have a gifted, visual/spatial learner on your hands, and treating this as a matter of laziness/defiance is not going to get you very far. Their brains are wired differently, they think and learn in very different ways — it's not just a matter of "thinking in pictures." You say that she's extremely compliant in every other way but just "shuts down" over school — that doesn't sound like disobedience or a power struggle to me, that sounds like a kid whose brain is shutting down because she needs to learn in a different way.

 

The suggestions here for punishing her "defiance" by withholding food, or taking pencil and paper away from a child who's only pleasureable outlet at the moment seems to be writing and drawing, just makes me want to cry. I have a kid who was just like yours (extremely bright, very sweet & compliant but hated school, loved to draw, picky eater due to sensory issues, etc), and I can tell you that those tactics would only have made things worse — and would have destroyed our relationship in the process. Now, in 7th grade, he's doing Athenaze Greek, Algebra, ancient history with TC lectures, interest-led science, computer programming & robotics, and he loves homeschooling, loves his life, and is a very happy kid. Because I had him tested, I researched like crazy, and I met his needs, so that he can learn the way his brain works instead of trying to force him to "learn" in ways that absolutely do not work for him.

 

Please don't believe that your DD is just lazy, disobedient, or defiant; she needs your help, not punishment. :(

 

Jackie

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

My non-schooly kid is living in Manhattan, supporting himself at 20, teaches kids to swim at the Y, goes to college...has a good relationship with his parents and siblings, doesn't drink, smoke, do drugs....

 

That kid could sit at the table and stare at his shoe for 9 hours!! He drove me NUTS!!! BUT, what I mistook many times for laziness, is just his manner. What I mistook for a bad attitude was his way of coping.

I am so glad I did not freak out and punish him into dysfunction ...or cut off our ties from each other.(I did freak out a few times...well anyone would!!! Who wants to watch a kid stare at a shoe for 9 HOURS?????)

He is now known by those he works with as gentle and patient...qualities needed for working with kids in the water...especially scared or special needs kids. I tell you...as his Mom, patient and gentle looked like lazy and defiant to me lots of times! He was always late wherever we went...once he was responsible to get there himself, that stopped....He was always picky about what he ate...I let him eat peanut butter and jelly sandwiches...He is a weight lifter now and eats sushi...raw fish sushi!:tongue_smilie: and squid...blecjH!!!!!

 

At one point, I just let him take over his own learning.I taught him to read and write. He was about 9 when I said, OK buddy...I taught you to read, write and use a math book....what are you going to study...what are you going to write about?? I provided learning opportunities...books, videos, outside classes, swimteam, etc. He read tons...including reading The Well Trained Mind. I let him draw...a lot. He drew what I read TO him. He drew what he read about. He wrote about what he drew.

 

I could have punished him, took away his food, toys, crayons, friends etc. but that would not have created the adult I wanted him to be. That would have created either an angry or beaten down kid. Instead, concentrate on who she is and what she loves to do. If she loves to draw...have her draw word problems...color in 3 rows of butterflies with 4 in each row....how many do you have...Can you break them into other equal groups, can you tell me some adding sentences using your 12 butterflies....Whatever IT TAKES....

 

This way of learning takes more time and less time....you have to be creative. You have to keep the discussion open and be ready to teach in season and out of season...look for that teachable moment...look for a spark...run with it.

 

By all means if you expect learning disabilities...seek treatment. It won't hurt. But to always go with a punitive consequence is not always productive or useful.

 

Faithe...

Edited October 17, 2011 by Mommyfaithe

[justLisa]

OH my. Demoralizing punishments, witholding food? Possibly these children would have a gentler time in a school. I am so just completely saddened by the harsh discipline talked about around here. It sometimes makes me feel ill and I think I would rather not visit this board and read any threads at all.

 

FOr some reason I thought this board would be a bigger promoter of GENTLE PARENTING. I guess I thought HSers all fell in that category, I guess not :(

 

I would really worry about scaring a child into fearing authoritative figures at this age. Sure when they are older they can understand the dark side of the law and what it is for but don't you think this poses a risk at this age? A child will end up afraid of school authority, police officers, anyone that can haul me and/or mommy away for not being good and doing "school."

 

Oy. I should not be responding to this because it is offensive but I am such an advocate for gentle parenting and have such a hard time with this.

 

I think there is some good gentle advice in this thread, and I'm sure the OP is grateful for some positive options.

[Corraleno]

As soon as my DD sees us heading off to do the "oh so fun thing she loves to do" she starts loudly protesting and I just smile and say "Sure, you can join us as soon as you finish X" - literally seconds later she is at my side with all work completed and correct..

Watching others do fun things without her is her ticket of care because she sees the immediate result of not doing her work happening right in front of her.;)

 

To me, though, while this approach may be effective in getting a child to do schoolwork, in the long run it may end up reinforcing the idea that school is boring and tedious, and that a child should try to just get it over with as quickly as possible so they can do "fun stuff." Ditto with the approach a PP mentioned, comparing schoolwork to other boring things like housework and diaper changing, things that one must simply endure because it needs to be done.

 

My ultimate goal in educating my kids is to produce life-long learners, people who will love to read and research and learn new things throughout their lives. Telling them that yes, schoolwork is boring and tedious and they need to just suck it up and do it because life is full of boring things, which one has to do in order to get to the fun stuff, might achieve a short-term goal (immediate compliance) but at the expense of a (much more important, IMHO) long-term goal, and that's not a price I'm willing to pay. And in fact, by working with my kids' individual strengths and weaknesses and interests, I'm achieving both goals — I have kids who love to learn, who don't balk at schoolwork, who read for pleasure, and for whom learning is intrinsically valuable and actually enjoyable.

 

Jackie

[Corraleno]

This way of learning takes more time and less time....you have to be creative. You have to keep the discussion open and be ready to teach in season and out of season...look for that teachable moment...look for a spark...run with it.

 

:iagree:

with everything Faithe said, but I particularly want to address the part I quoted above. Working with these kids, instead of against them, takes both "more time and less time," and I think that's something that moms who haven't taught this way have a hard time visualizing.

 

It took me a LOT of time to figure DS out. Lots and lots of reading and research and thinking and talking to him, talking to adults (including DH) who think like him, and trying to figure out the best way to help him learn, instead of trying to find disciplinary tactics to make him learn. Because you can't make these kids learn — you might be able to force them to go through the motions, fill in the worksheets, etc., but you can't make them retain and understand it. You can make them hate school, though.

 

The approach I take with DS now is more work in the sense that I research things and find resources for him as we go along, rather than buying a stack of curriculum in the summer, scheduling it all out, and then just doing it every day. BUT it's also much less work in the sense that I don't schedule things, I don't "teach" him (other than answering questions, helping him find resources, making suggestions). Math is just "do the next thing" unless he's stuck; Greek is with an online course; history is with TC courses and readings (his choice); science is very much interest-led, hands-on, project-based. Computer programming & robotics he does on his own — I bought the books and resources and he does them when he wants to (which is almost every day, and often on weekends). We do lots of field trips, nature walks, museum visits, etc. We watch tons of documentaries, we have lots of discussions, I answer a million questions every day — and if I don't know the answer, I say "let's look that up!" and we grab a book or get on the internet.

 

So there's much less time invested in planning and scheduling upfront, and a little more time involved in helping to find resources as we go along, but honestly we are all SO MUCH HAPPIER, we are enjoying school and each other so much more than before, I would never go back. Never.

 

Jackie

Edited October 17, 2011 by Corraleno

[ThreeBlessings]

I would really worry about scaring a child into fearing authoritative figures at this age. Sure when they are older they can understand the dark side of the law and what it is for but don't you think this poses a risk at this age? A child will end up afraid of school authority, police officers, anyone that can haul me and/or mommy away for not being good and doing "school."

 

Oy. I should not be responding to this because it is offensive but I am such an advocate for gentle parenting and have such a hard time with this.

 

I think there is some good gentle advice in this thread, and I'm sure the OP is grateful for some positive options.

 

I think this part of your post is in response to my post? If so, I'd like to say I think you took my post completely wrong. I think an eight year old child is old enough to have a conversation about schooling being the law to let them know that yes, one way or another it needs to get done. I clearly stated not to threaten them. I meant nothing more than a calm, reasonable discussion on the law and consequences of breaking the law. I had this discussion with both of my kids at about that age, not because of any problems we were having with school but because they are curious kids and ask questions constantly. I assure you they were not in the least bit scared and they understood quite well. An eight year old can understand the reality that schooling is the law, just like not stealing is the law, and crossing at crosswalks is the law without it making them fear policemen or authority figures.

 

I AM into gentle parenting. I do not spank or use physical punishment of any kind. I do my best not to yell or belittle. I am very big on explaining things to my children and trying to let them have a say in things. THAT is what I was advocating, not scaring the kid.

 

As for withholding food for a child, I agree it isn't a good idea.

[justLisa]

I think this part of your post is in response to my post? If so, I'd like to say I think you took my post completely wrong. I think an eight year old child is old enough to have a conversation about schooling being the law to let them know that yes, one way or another it needs to get done. I clearly stated not to threaten them. I meant nothing more than a calm, reasonable discussion on the law and consequences of breaking the law. I had this discussion with both of my kids at about that age, not because of any problems we were having with school but because they are curious kids and ask questions constantly. I assure you they were not in the least bit scared and they understood quite well. An eight year old can understand the reality that schooling is the law, just like not stealing is the law, and crossing at crosswalks is the law without it making them fear policemen or authority figures.

 

I AM into gentle parenting. I do not spank or use physical punishment of any kind. I do my best not to yell or belittle. I am very big on explaining things to my children and trying to let them have a say in things. THAT is what I was advocating, not scaring the kid.

 

As for withholding food for a child, I agree it isn't a good idea.

 

Maybe I did a little, but for MY kids, 5 and 7 I dont' know what kind of effect that would have. I think my 7 year old would become paranoid about it.

 

I may have taken your text in a more serious manner after reading some of the other punishing acts so I'm sorry, my mistake.

 

ETA: you DID say you didn't give her breakfast. but then again this has to do with giving kids a little say in when they do something. I would JUMP at my kids waking up to read. Forget routine! Our morning routine is convenient for ME, because it helps the day run smoothly, but if they find something productive that interests them, i will help them figure out how to work it in. Help with something else? a quicker meal that doesn't leave crumbs and can snack on while reading? I just think bending a little sometimes can be of value. I don't know the exact scenario, just seems like helping a kid figure out how to do what needs to be done in a day is more beneficial than demanding when you do what. I'm not talking about just carrying on all day however they want, but I would see the desire to read as something I'd be willing to work around.

Edited October 17, 2011 by 425lisamarie

[mama27]

Does anyone else have a child who simply refuses to do the assigned schoolwork? I know there are some of you out there!

 

I have a very bright 8 year old who is flat out refusing to do her assignments. My normal punishment for not doing assignments is loss of TV and computer privileges (which includes video games). This works on all my other kids but no longer works on DD 8. She doesn't care. I give her menial work to do. She does the menial work and still doesn't care. I tell her she can't get up from the table until she finishes the assignment. She has sat the whole day at the table-- doodling, crying, talking & singing to herself, putting on puppet plays with her hands, or just sitting there staring into space. For hours on end.

 

I have switched curriculum a few times but it makes no difference. She admits the work is easy but she finds it boring, so she doesn't want to do it. I've tried more difficult work, easier work, it makes no difference.

 

I don't think school would be any better (not that it's really an option) because I faced similar battles when she was in school-- getting out of bed, getting dressed, doing homework, etc..

 

She is a very sweet child in every other way, will do just about anything I ask of her (other than schoolwork), is nice to her siblings, hardly ever raises her voice... she just hates school. I'm at a loss at the point :confused:. Anyone else have a kid like this?

 

 

what curriculum are you using or have you used with her?

my 9 yo son takes FOREVER to get his math done. literally hours when it should take no more than one hour. i know how frustrating it is. what has worked with me is just let him sit there and waste his whole day. he can go to the bathroom and eat ( FTR, is it ILLEGAL and CRUEL to withhold food from your child!!! not saying YOU, the OP, is doing this but some of the others on here don't seem to realize this!), he can't play, or go outside, or watch tv, etc.

when she does do the work, does she get the answers right?

i agree with what what person said about truning the tables on her and saying you don't want to take her outside, it's too boring, or to the park, or whatever.

do her siblings get to play and do fun things while she is not doing her school work? can she see them?

[Corraleno]

I have been following this thread very closely today...I could have written the original post word-for-word (except my dd is a 7yo). I googled visual-spatial learner and it describes my dd so well I should probably be paranoid that someone is watching her through our windows and taking notes! :lol:

 

My question is, what curriculum is good for teaching a visual-spatial learner? Obviously R&S Math (very parts-to-whole, drill and repetition) is not a good fit for my dd. Nor is R&S Phonics (although after dragging her through grade 1 and part of grade 2, she is an excellent reader). These two are the most difficult to use with her, and cause most of the problems. I already dropped R&S Reading (her reading comprehension is unbelievable, as is her ability to sequence events), now we just use the readers for practice reading aloud...and she wants me to ask her comprehension questions after she finishes reading, because she knows that she will get the answer right!:D

 

So what do you (or anyone else with experience with a visual-spatial learner) recommend we use? I am very sequential and parts-to-whole, as is my oldest child, which is why we are using R&S. But it is not working with my second child. In fact, I would almost have to say that she is learning well in spite of what we use, not because of it.

Whole-to-parts learners do not do well with drill-&-kill or with learning things piecemeal. To use an analogy, part-to-whole learning is like constructing a building one brick at a time, and the child doesn't really see how everything fits together until the building is finished. Whole-to-part learners need to see the blueprints of the building first, so they know what the final product looks like. They can often understand higher-level abstract concepts well before they have acquired all the concrete "parts." They need context in order to understand the function of the individual bricks — without that, it's just a random jumble of bricks in their heads. It may look to you like a nice neat row of bricks in the curriculum, but once it's inside their heads it just becomes a big jumbled pile because they don't "file" information in a linear, sequential way. So it looks like they're not learning or retaining anything, because they can't retrieve the information from the pile.

 

One of the most important aspects of VSL thinking that I think parents need to understand is that interest and engagement aren't just "luxuries" for VSLs, they're critical components in the way they learn, store, and retrieve information:

Sometimes seen as having poor organization skills, picture thinkers have their order. It centers around significance, an emotional response. Rather than outline as step-by-step learners do, where main ideas stand out like trees on the plain, spatials respond to feelings about importance. If something strikes them as worthwhile, it becomes part of their web of essentials, a mental map of things worth paying attention to. Instead of outlines—so comfortable to the stepwise —a picture thinker’s scheme of reality is more like a 3D star map. The various stars and constellations stand out in different degrees of brightness, all shining against the dark space surrounding them and all interconnected in some way. Those connections are based on feelings and sensed importance.

This is from an article on Visual Spatial Strengths. There are many other articles, including specific advice for helping VSLs learn, here.

 

For my DS, things that are hands-on, interest-led, project-based, discovery-based, etc., have worked very well and have led to a very active, engaged, switched-on learner. Not only has it not resulted in a "coddled" kid with no work ethic, he's putting forth far more effort than he ever did before, and he often does "school work" (Greek, science, history, programming) on weekends, because he's really interested in the subjects and wants to learn.

 

Jackie

[Corraleno]

I agree with Correlano! I never had my son tested. However, we to had the same issues. These issues still exist. Ds is in 7th grade. He will not do anything if he thinks it's pointless. No punishment or reward ever worked. The things that do work for us are patience (tons of it), constant conversations and discussions, and loads of hands-on-stuff.

 

He is just now getting better. However, the real learning for him happens while doing and discussing. His learning doesn't look like school at all. It never has. Yet, he is extremely bright. He is a very deep thinker and analyzer. I believe that he was born in the rethoric stage, but didn't have the math or language tools to back it up. We are just now catching up to it. Things are getting smoother. Slowly.

Yes! These kids are often able to understand the "big picture," and to think abstractly and analyze things at a much deeper level than other kids their ages, and yet they don't have the tools to work with yet. I always used to say that DS was born in the Logic Stage, and he has always found "grammar level" work — lots of drill & repetition & memorization — completely torturous. Many people will insist that those tasks are a "necessary foundation" for logic-level work, but I've not found that to be true with DS. And now that he's a much more fluent reader and has access to materials (books, TC courses, science programs, etc) that address subjects at a much deeper level than what one gets in elementary materials, he's sucking it all up like a sponge and absolutely thriving.

 

Honestly, I think the most important thing with these kids is to get them to the point where they can access material that is as deep and abstract as their thought processes without screwing them up before they get there. As long as they haven't learned to hate school work, there will be a big leap in their ability and motivation to learn once they get to the point where "logic- and rhetoric-stage" material meets the "logic- and rhetoric-stage" brains they were born with.

 

Jackie

[ThreeBlessings]

Maybe I did a little, but for MY kids, 5 and 7 I dont' know what kind of effect that would have. I think my 7 year old would become paranoid about it.

 

I may have taken your text in a more serious manner after reading some of the other punishing acts so I'm sorry, my mistake.

 

ETA: you DID say you didn't give her breakfast. but then again this has to do with giving kids a little say in when they do something. I would JUMP at my kids waking up to read. Forget routine! Our morning routine is convenient for ME, because it helps the day run smoothly, but if they find something productive that interests them, i will help them figure out how to work it in. Help with something else? a quicker meal that doesn't leave crumbs and can snack on while reading? I just think bending a little sometimes can be of value. I don't know the exact scenario, just seems like helping a kid figure out how to do what needs to be done in a day is more beneficial than demanding when you do what. I'm not talking about just carrying on all day however they want, but I would see the desire to read as something I'd be willing to work around.

 

With the last part, the ETA part, if you are addressing me you are completely mixing my post up with someone else's. I never said anything about not giving my kid breakfast. I have never in my parenthood withheld breakfast or any other meal for any reason. Those things you are talking about are not from my post at all.

 

Aside from that, it didn't cross my mind when I posted someone might think I was trying to scare a kid by talking to them about the law in relation to schooling. I can see how I wasn't as clear as I could have been, I was trying to hurry. That post was mine. When I talked with my kids about it we also talked about the other possible consequences of not getting an education, such as limiting career choices.

[justLisa]

With the last part, the ETA part, if you are addressing me you are completely mixing my post up with someone else's. I never said anything about not giving my kid breakfast. I have never in my parenthood withheld breakfast or any other meal for any reason. Those things you are talking about are not from my post at all.

 

Aside from that, it didn't cross my mind when I posted someone might think I was trying to scare a kid by talking to them about the law in relation to schooling. I can see how I wasn't as clear as I could have been, I was trying to hurry. That post was mine. When I talked with my kids about it we also talked about the other possible consequences of not getting an education, such as limiting career choices.

 

no i was not speaking of your post. i was responding to a poster than responded to me

[JessieC]

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

My non-schooly kid is living in Manhattan, supporting himself at 20, teaches kids to swim at the Y, goes to college...has a good relationship with his parents and siblings, doesn't drink, smoke, do drugs....

 

That kid could sit at the table and stare at his shoe for 9 hours!! He drove me NUTS!!! BUT, what I mistook many times for laziness, is just his manner. What I mistook for a bad attitude was his way of coping.

I am so glad I did not freak out and punish him into dysfunction ...or cut off our ties from each other.(I did freak out a few times...well anyone would!!! Who wants to watch a kid stare at a shoe for 9 HOURS?????)

He is now known by those he works with as gentle and patient...qualities needed for working with kids in the water...especially scared or special needs kids. I tell you...as his Mom, patient and gentle looked like lazy and defiant to me lots of times! He was always late wherever we went...once he was responsible to get there himself, that stopped....He was always picky about what he ate...I let him eat peanut butter and jelly sandwiches...He is a weight lifter now and eats sushi...raw fish sushi!:tongue_smilie: and squid...blecjH!!!!!

 

At one point, I just let him take over his own learning.I taught him to read and write. He was about 9 when I said, OK buddy...I taught you to read, write and use a math book....what are you going to study...what are you going to write about?? I provided learning opportunities...books, videos, outside classes, swimteam, etc. He read tons...including reading The Well Trained Mind. I let him draw...a lot. He drew what I read TO him. He drew what he read about. He wrote about what he drew.

 

I could have punished him, took away his food, toys, crayons, friends etc. but that would not have created the adult I wanted him to be. That would have created either an angry or beaten down kid. Instead, concentrate on who she is and what she loves to do. If she loves to draw...have her draw word problems...color in 3 rows of butterflies with 4 in each row....how many do you have...Can you break them into other equal groups, can you tell me some adding sentences using your 12 butterflies....Whatever IT TAKES....

 

This way of learning takes more time and less time....you have to be creative. You have to keep the discussion open and be ready to teach in season and out of season...look for that teachable moment...look for a spark...run with it.

 

By all means if you expect learning disabilities...seek treatment. It won't hurt. But to always go with a punitive consequence is not always productive or useful.

 

Faithe...

 

Love this post!

 

OP, could you sit down with dd to talk about a "dream" curriculum, and see how you might meet her needs through compromise? One of the best parenting techniques I know comes from "How to Talk so Your Kids Will Listen.." Sit down and state the problem: We need to figure out a way to make homeschool work for both of us. Then with a pencil and paper brainstorm every possible solution--write down EVERYTHING you both come up with. Then go down the list and cross off what won't work for either of you (you can't accept her drawing all day, she can't accept having to sit at the table to do math, English, etc.) Maybe you can come to a solution that works for both of you through this method. If not, keep working with what does create a spark in her, and let that be your guide. Good luck!

[Embassy]

If you can go the testing route I would try that. It may give you the answers you need.

 

It doesn't sound like punishment is the way to go. It seems like a learning issue and I wouldn't be surprised if you have a gifted VSL on your hands.

[ThreeBlessings]

OP- Another thought I had was if you are assigning her mostly independent work maybe try doing all subjects with her as the constant interaction may help her to get some school done. Science, Literature, and History as read alouds, possibly with narration or notebooking. Or Science as nature study. Or Science and History as watching documentaries. Grammar could be done orally with First Language Lessons or Simply Grammar. Math you could take a break from curriculum and play Math games with her and use hands on manipulatives for lessons. Spelling can be done orally or on a chalkboard or whiteboard. With an eight year old you could plan on 10-15 minutes a day for Spelling, 15-20 minutes for Grammar, 30-60 minutes for Math, 30-60 minutes for Reading and anything else as icing on the cake. So help her understand she could have school accomplished in 2 1/2- 3 1/2 hours out of the 24 there are in a day. She may like to set a timer and if it is okay with you to limit the time spent on the subject it is a great idea and can really motivate kids.

[ThreeBlessings]

no i was not speaking of your post. i was responding to a poster than responded to me

 

Okay, my post was quoted in your post so I thought you were talking to me! Thanks for clarifying. :)

[Corraleno]

For Butterflymommy, Clear Creek, and anyone else who may be dealing with a gifted/VSL child, I highly recommend the Eides Neurolearning Blog. This video in particular, The Turkey and the Crow, may help you to better understand where your kids are coming from.

 

Jackie

[sagira]

I suspect ds8 is like this. Thank you for this post.

 

 

 

Whole-to-parts learners do not do well with drill-&-kill or with learning things piecemeal. To use an analogy, part-to-whole learning is like constructing a building one brick at a time, and the child doesn't really see how everything fits together until the building is finished. Whole-to-part learners need to see the blueprints of the building first, so they know what the final product looks like. They can often understand higher-level abstract concepts well before they have acquired all the concrete "parts." They need context in order to understand the function of the individual bricks — without that, it's just a random jumble of bricks in their heads. It may look to you like a nice neat row of bricks in the curriculum, but once it's inside their heads it just becomes a big jumbled pile because they don't "file" information in a linear, sequential way. So it looks like they're not learning or retaining anything, because they can't retrieve the information from the pile.

 

One of the most important aspects of VSL thinking that I think parents need to understand is that interest and engagement aren't just "luxuries" for VSLs, they're critical components in the way they learn, store, and retrieve information:

 

This is from an article on Visual Spatial Strengths. There are many other articles, including specific advice for helping VSLs learn, here.

 

For my DS, things that are hands-on, interest-led, project-based, discovery-based, etc., have worked very well and have led to a very active, engaged, switched-on learner. Not only has it not resulted in a "coddled" kid with no work ethic, he's putting forth far more effort than he ever did before, and he often does "school work" (Greek, science, history, programming) on weekends, because he's really interested in the subjects and wants to learn.

 

Jackie

[Haiku]

 

ETA: you DID say you didn't give her breakfast. but then again this has to do with giving kids a little say in when they do something. I would JUMP at my kids waking up to read.

 

That was actually me who said that, not the poster you just responded to. It just goes to show how different people's kids can be. My dd constantly has her nose in a book, to the point that it's a detriment to getting other things done. She claims to want to go to hockey practice, but instead of getting ready she's got her nose in a book. She claims to want to go to homeschool group, but while the rest of us are getting ready, she's sitting on the couch reading. She claims that she's soooooo tired she can't possibly help clean up from dinner, but yet she wants to stay up past bedtime reading. And it's not that I *didn't* give my dd breakfast. The kids get their own breakfast. There are always bagels, muffins, and cereal available. Dd also knows how to make oatmeal. She chose to read instead of getting breakfast, and she ran out of time. It sounds nice to say that if my dd wants to read, I'll facilitate that instead of demanding she stick to some rigid schedule, but the reality is that we have a limited amount of time to get certain things done. If we have to leave the house at a certain time for an activity, or even if we have to leave for something as mundane as going grocery shopping, that means that we have to start school at a certain time in order to be finished in time to leave. That's life. Dd gets up between 7:30 and 8. We start school at 9. She has plenty of time to get everything done AND read if she just gets it done, and if she chooses to blow off her responsibilities so she can play (which is what reading is to her), well, there are consequences to that. Not punishments, but consequences. If I hang out on the computer until it's time for me to leave for work and then realize I'm hungry, should I just tell my boss I'll be late to work because I need to eat now? Dd reads well over 1,000 pages a week. I'm not worried about her not getting enough reading time.

 

Tara

[Critterfixer]

That's life. Dd gets up between 7:30 and 8. We start school at 9. She has plenty of time to get everything done AND read if she just gets it done, and if she chooses to blow off her responsibilities so she can play (which is what reading is to her), well, there are consequences to that. Not punishments, but consequences. If I hang out on the computer until it's time for me to leave for work and then realize I'm hungry, should I just tell my boss I'll be late to work because I need to eat now? Dd reads well over 1,000 pages a week. I'm not worried about her not getting enough reading time.

 

Amen, sister. :iagree:You say it so much better than I do.

 

Could I just respectfully say something here? I believed at the time that the OP was asking for opinions on her question, and would sift them to find what style would suit her methods and situation. On a open board there are bound to be opinions that are not the same and come from very different points of view, reflecting different parenting styles, different religious philosophies, and (gasp!) different teaching philosophies.

I for one, don't feel the science for learning styles is strong enough for me to sculpt a curriculum around it. I'm certainly a minority opinion on that, and I know it. Nevertheless, it is my opinion. Anyone may disagree with it. But I do think it is a little strong to call the view that missing a meal because life wouldn't wait abusive.

[MeganW]

We haven't had it with schoolwork yet, but we have had it with therapy homework.

 

What has worked is making lots of fun plans. Making brownies, going out to dinner as a family, some huge messy art project, etc., that she is not included in if her work isn't done. (Of course if it is something out of the house, that means that one parent has to stay home with sulky while the other goes, but hopefully it's a one time deal!)