s/o of s/o Why do some women not put effort into their appearance??

[catz]

Why do people care about this 'appearance' stuff so much? [as evidenced by 20+ page threads]

 

Just do your thing - whatever that may be - and let others do theirs. :cheers2:

 

:iagree: Some days I do hair and make up. Some days I don't. I don't really care what other people do. I guess if I'm just homeschooling for the day and maybe running an errand or 2, hardly seems worth it. I do maintain my hair in a decent cut. I live in capris, yoga pants, various t-shirts. I have a few nicer outfits but I'm not putting them on for my typical day. Actually, a regular work out is much more important to me than spending time and energy on hair and makeup. Everyone's different.

[simka2]

I refuse to define "frumpy" for someone else. I have no idea if they HAVE made an effort. I also have no idea what sort of background and past trauma someone may be coming from.

 

As others have stated, sometimes what I might consider frumpy is the best someone can do for themselves. Sometimes, how we dress is in an attempt to hide. Whatever the reasons...they belong to the individual.

 

My role: Take the best possibly care to myself and be generous (in assesment and assumption) to my neighbor.

Edited August 12, 2011 by simka2

[DB in NJ]

honestly, there's a difference between taking good care of yourself and being vain.

 

I have a dear friend who just refuses to do anything with her appearance -- to the point where she has facial hair that she simply "trims". Her mustache is just as thick and noticeable as her husband's. She gets her hair cut, but never styled. She does not color her hair (which is fine), she doesn't shave her legs or her underarms (or her lip), she doesn't pluck her eyebrows. She wears no make-up, and she does her clothes shopping at a local ministry that receives donated clothing. She is not poor by any means; this is just her choice.

 

We love her, we accept her, she's our friend. But we don't understand her because we don't think the same way. And that's ok. Live and let live.

 

Having said that, she does think it's "wasteful" when I spend money on Clinique (makeup & perfume), or a nice pocketbook from Kohl's (she doesn't ever carry one), or acrylic nails, or a pedicure, or hair color.

[Violet Crown]

If plucking eyebrows is part of the expected package, it's frumpy for me.

 

Besides, you can see by my avatar that I have bold and statesmanlike eyebrows.

[mommaduck]

honestly, there's a difference between taking good care of yourself and being vain.

 

I have a dear friend who just refuses to do anything with her appearance -- to the point where she has facial hair that she simply "trims". Her mustache is just as thick and noticeable as her husband's. She gets her hair cut, but never styled. She does not color her hair (which is fine), she doesn't shave her legs or her underarms (or her lip), she doesn't pluck her eyebrows. She wears no make-up, and she does her clothes shopping at a local ministry that receives donated clothing. She is not poor by any means; this is just her choice.

 

We love her, we accept her, she's our friend. But we don't understand her because we don't think the same way. And that's ok. Live and let live.

 

Having said that, she does think it's "wasteful" when I spend money on Clinique (makeup & perfume), or a nice pocketbook from Kohl's (she doesn't ever carry one), or acrylic nails, or a pedicure, or hair color.

Our friends must be related! Add no bra (of course I avoid one most days, but wear one out to keep the booKs in check...though I would rather have a corset than a bra). I have unibrow...I have to pluck or else. But there are those that choose not to and it doesn't bother me. So there is my 10min that could go towards makeup. Makeup on occasion...but keeping my brows apart is regular.

[creekland]

I used to be into vanity -clothes, make up, heels always, hair always done, tanners, etc. I had a job that required it.

 

Then I joined Marines and I got out of habit of dressing up as I always wore a uniform; hair in a bun or short and no-fuss; quit wearing make-up because being at work at 3:30 AM, you don't want to spend and extra 10 minutes looking nice, you want to sleep plus I really don't want to do PT in make up.

 

Then I got of Marines and had back to back babies. I was too tired to get dressed up and didn't have a lot of nice clothes I could fit into. Going from two salaries to one salary, we couldn't afford spending money on clothes so I wore DH's sweats.

 

Now -I dress up for church, going out to eat w/the girls but I also don't dress up to run to library, grocery store, etc. Often I am running errands on the way home from gym and so I will have hair plastered to my face because it's not going to hold a style after a workout and not long enough for a pony tail. I will have a red face so make up is pointless. I will be sweaty and wearing sweats!

 

I just don't care about looks anymore. I really don't. I value comfort. Our budget is tight so I don't have that extra money. I had a weight gain last spring and I don't have clothes that look flattering and can't afford to go buy anymore. I'm trying to lose that weight now but it's going slower than it went on.

 

You know what? I'm very much like you. I used to wear make-up until I joined the Air Force... I never cared to dress up (EVER!) nor did I wear high heels, but I did wear make up and have longer hair that I styled. My Dad wishes I were the way I am now when I was back in high school! He says I should have joined the AF sooner.

 

Now, I could be a millionaire and have no job or kids and I wouldn't change my comfortable, no make up, as little dressing up as possible lifestyle. I simply like who I am and the way I am. Period. If my clothes aren't being sold anymore due to being out of style, I'll keep wearing my old ones until they wear out or find bargains on e-bay or in thrift stores. It's what I've done before. ;)

 

I don't even notice what others wear. Nor do I care. To each their own.

 

FWIW, I'm generally right at home in a group of guys - and I like it that way. All of my favorite activities (hiking, scuba, camping, etc) tend to be more guy dominant anyway. I seldom feel at home in a group of ladies and avoid such groups as often as I can. I can't think of the last one I went to actually. And no, I'm not homosexual nor have any tendencies towards it (and yes, I have been asked).

 

But I like this group of mostly ladies - even if we disagree on things. ;)

[Natalieclare]

Why do people care about this 'appearance' stuff so much? [as evidenced by 20+ page threads]

 

Just do your thing - whatever that may be - and let others do theirs. :cheers2:

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

I am a Christian. One who takes the verse, "Man looks on outward appearance, but God looks on the heart," very seriously. I know man's tendency, but I strive to emulate God in this.

 

That being said, I loooove make-up. I love the colors. It's like playing with paints for me. I have horrible fine motor control and so, cannot paint or draw to save my soul. BUT, I can slap some color on me and it is fun.

 

 

THAT being said, sometimes I wear it; sometimes I don't. I don't at all mind rolling out of bed, discovering we are out of TP and rushing off to the store with my hair thrown in a scraggly pony and no paint whatsoever. IN SWEATS. No problem. Or maybe I just choose to have an au natural day. Whatever. I am the same me no matter what. (I will say that I feel more awake, more on when I am wearing make-up and dressed less casually.)

 

And another thing, I am the kind of person who looks like an unmade bed even if I just got done ironing something. My cousin is the opposite. Linen wouldn't dare to wrinkle on her. She always looks like an advertisement for starch. So crisp and fresh and posh. Not me. I can iron and paint and dress to the nines and still have a rumpled frumpy appearance. Oh well, at least I am in good company--CS Lewis said he was the same way.

 

And I think Impish was spot on when she said people should wear hair just as they like. The other day, I noticed a carefully groomed woman sporting a mullet. This is unusual even in our wear-anything area. I thought to myself, maybe it's not that her hairstyle is outdated, maybe she's ushering in a new style!

[creekland]

She's a horse woman. She doesn't care for girly things. She only wore dress pants to the office because she had to. It was jeans at home. Never shorts, never sweats, never leggings. She was clean, but people used to wonder why she never got stylish clothes or wore makeup or had pierced ears or dyed her hair (graying early is genetic). To them, she wasn't "taking care of herself", when in actuality she was. My mama wore cowboy boots, then combat boots, then hushpuppies, and back to cowboy boots. Makeup (even 3min put on) isn't the be all, end all of "taking care of oneself".

 

Wow, you could almost be describing me, except I'm not fond of cowboy boots. I wear hiking boots - even in the barn. They're more comfortable.

[Jen in PA]

 

Besides, you can see by my avatar that I have bold and statesmanlike eyebrows.

 

:lol:

[mommaduck]

Wow, you could almost be describing me, except I'm not fond of cowboy boots. I wear hiking boots - even in the barn. They're more comfortable.

I prefer hiking boots also. Much better on my Native feet that I inherited from my dad's side. My mother has nice, petite feet. I'm a barefooter, nice flops or sandals when I have to, and boots in the winter.

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

Am I missing something?

 

I and others answered why we don't use makeup or make fashion a priority. I took the liberty of answering for the very poor, and said that those who can't even afford shoes must, by default, see makeup and salon hairstyles as vain things. Others also spoke on behalf of those with allergies to makeup, religious convictions, simple or rural lifestyles, and personal preference.

 

As I read this thread today, it seems that a few stylish makeup-wearers are on the defensive. They act as if they personally have been attacked, called vain, and made to be persecuted at the hands of stuck-up plain women who take pride in their plainness.

 

Women say that to themselves these are vain things, and they get called unloving, prideful, and holier-than-thou.

 

WTH.

 

The question was, "Why do some women not put more effort into their appearance."

 

May we only answer the question if we're careful not to offend the middle class women who choose to be stylish? Should we have all added, "But I concede that fashionable women look better than I do, and if I were only that pretty I'd be happy because they are doing it right?" Really, is your self-esteem that fragile that you can't handle someone failing to be impressed by your fashion sense?

 

I'm skimming through and failing to see where anyone opined about the spending habits or priorities of the well-to-do who love fashion. I'm not seeing it. I only see people answering the question for themselves and others not being able to handle it.

 

One of my least favorite Junior High memories is of the day the cheerleaders attacked the pentecostal denim skirt wearers. The topic in the class was cultural differences (it was a "Multi-cultural Studies" class) and the makeup-less skirt-wearers were asked by the teacher why they looked as they did. My friend Gina answered very sweetly and simply that her church believed women were pretty enough without makeup, and modesty was valued.

 

She was ripped to shreds for that, and the teacher didn't stop it. The mean girls accused her of implying that they were sluts for wearing short shorts and lipstick. They asked her if she thought she was better than them. They asked her how she'd ever get a boyfriend wearing a sack like that, and how she could stand to leave the house without makeup. She hadn't said any of that! And she was the last person to comment on the appearance of others, mindful though she may have been of her own.

 

The teacher didn't stop the abuse, so I did. "How dare you ask her," I said, "and then allow her to be ripped to shreds for her answer?"

 

Nobody here attacked women who can afford makeup and enjoy wearing it. I don't appreciate references to high horses and pride toward women who are modest, simple, poor, religious, or allergic!

[Terabith]

For me, I guess I just don't see any point. I never learned how to apply makeup, and I hate the way it feels on my face. But the reason I never learned how is because even in jr high, I just didn't see any point. I guess I have body image issues, because I sort of feel like it's not going to make any difference. I try to avoid mirrors.

 

And I just don't understand it. I don't really understand how to dress in a stylish way. I have a hard time knowing what goes together. I don't know how to make my hair look good.

 

I'm ashamed of how I look and just sort of don't see much point. In summer I wear elastic waist shorts and tshirts and crocs. In winter I wear elastic waist pants, tshirts, and sneakers. Or sometimes crocs with socks. If I'm cold I'll put on a sweater. I brush my hair to get tangles out, but I don't look in the mirror when I do it.

 

So, I guess that's one reason some women don't.

[TXBeth]

:iagree: It takes the same amount of physical effort to put on clothes that make me feel good about myself as it takes to put on sloppy clothes. When I wear clothes that don't flatter me, it's usually a reflection of how I'm feeling about myself that day. When I put a tiny bit of extra thought to choose this shirt that brings out the color of my eyes and these pants that are not only comfortable but hug my curves the right way, I have a better day. :)

 

Some people might not have the foggiest idea which shirt brings out their eyes or which pants hug their curves the right way, just FYI.

 

If you want me to start a thread about that' date=' I will gladly do it.

 

BTW, I do expect my dh to work at staying fit and groomed. I help out by cooking decent meals for him (packing him a vegan lunch) and helping him pick out stylish and flattering clothes (from Goodwill if I'm lucky).[/quote']

 

And some of us don't have wives to assist us in choosing stylish and flattering clothes.

 

Am I missing something?

 

I and others answered why we don't use makeup or make fashion a priority. I took the liberty of answering for the very poor, and said that those who can't even afford shoes must, by default, see makeup and salon hairstyles as vain things. Others also spoke on behalf of those with allergies to makeup, religious convictions, simple or rural lifestyles, and personal preference.

 

As I read this thread today, it seems that a few stylish makeup-wearers are on the defensive. They act as if they personally have been attacked, called vain, and made to be persecuted at the hands of stuck-up plain women who take pride in their plainness.

 

Women say that to themselves these are vain things, and they get called unloving, prideful, and holier-than-thou.

 

WTH.

 

The question was, "Why do some women not put more effort into their appearance."

 

May we only answer the question if we're careful not to offend the middle class women who choose to be stylish? Should we have all added, "But I concede that fashionable women look better than I do, and if I were only that pretty I'd be happy because they are doing it right?" Really, is your self-esteem that fragile that you can't handle someone failing to be impressed by your fashion sense?

 

I'm skimming through and failing to see where anyone opined about the spending habits or priorities of the well-to-do who love fashion. I'm not seeing it. I only see people answering the question for themselves and others not being able to handle it.

 

One of my least favorite Junior High memories is of the day the cheerleaders attacked the pentecostal denim skirt wearers. The topic in the class was cultural differences (it was a "Multi-cultural Studies" class) and the makeup-less skirt-wearers were asked by the teacher why they looked as they did. My friend Gina answered very sweetly and simply that her church believed women were pretty enough without makeup, and modesty was valued.

 

She was ripped to shreds for that, and the teacher didn't stop it. The mean girls accused her of implying that they were sluts for wearing short shorts and lipstick. They asked her if she thought she was better than them. They asked her how she'd ever get a boyfriend wearing a sack like that, and how she could stand to leave the house without makeup. She hadn't said any of that! And she was the last person to comment on the appearance of others, mindful though she may have been of her own.

 

The teacher didn't stop the abuse, so I did. "How dare you ask her," I said, "and then allow her to be ripped to shreds for her answer?"

 

Nobody here attacked women who can afford makeup and enjoy wearing it. I don't appreciate references to high horses and pride toward women who are modest, simple, poor, religious, or allergic!

 

:::LIKE:::

 

You also have to remember that non-makeup wearers were put on the defensive from the beginning by the extremely condescending tone in the OP.

 

Beth (an occasional makeup-wearer, who doesn't wear it every day because DH prefers that I not, plus I just can't be bothered)

[*Inna*]

Well. I've just spent 20 minutes reading this thread, which I could have used to fix my hair and face. *hangs head in shame*

 

:leaving:

[Violet Crown]

What I want to know is, how is there a 22-page thread on the General Board, and no posts from Bill?

 

I want to know about Bill's morning self-care and personal grooming routine.

 

 

ETA: Never mind--having just re-read Chapter 94, I think I know more than I want to know.

[creekland]

Am I missing something?

 

I and others answered why we don't use makeup or make fashion a priority. I took the liberty of answering for the very poor, and said that those who can't even afford shoes must, by default, see makeup and salon hairstyles as vain things. Others also spoke on behalf of those with allergies to makeup, religious convictions, simple or rural lifestyles, and personal preference.

 

As I read this thread today, it seems that a few stylish makeup-wearers are on the defensive. They act as if they personally have been attacked, called vain, and made to be persecuted at the hands of stuck-up plain women who take pride in their plainness.

 

Women say that to themselves these are vain things, and they get called unloving, prideful, and holier-than-thou.

 

WTH.

 

The question was, "Why do some women not put more effort into their appearance."

 

May we only answer the question if we're careful not to offend the middle class women who choose to be stylish? Should we have all added, "But I concede that fashionable women look better than I do, and if I were only that pretty I'd be happy because they are doing it right?" Really, is your self-esteem that fragile that you can't handle someone failing to be impressed by your fashion sense?

 

I'm skimming through and failing to see where anyone opined about the spending habits or priorities of the well-to-do who love fashion. I'm not seeing it. I only see people answering the question for themselves and others not being able to handle it.

 

One of my least favorite Junior High memories is of the day the cheerleaders attacked the pentecostal denim skirt wearers. The topic in the class was cultural differences (it was a "Multi-cultural Studies" class) and the makeup-less skirt-wearers were asked by the teacher why they looked as they did. My friend Gina answered very sweetly and simply that her church believed women were pretty enough without makeup, and modesty was valued.

 

She was ripped to shreds for that, and the teacher didn't stop it. The mean girls accused her of implying that they were sluts for wearing short shorts and lipstick. They asked her if she thought she was better than them. They asked her how she'd ever get a boyfriend wearing a sack like that, and how she could stand to leave the house without makeup. She hadn't said any of that! And she was the last person to comment on the appearance of others, mindful though she may have been of her own.

 

The teacher didn't stop the abuse, so I did. "How dare you ask her," I said, "and then allow her to be ripped to shreds for her answer?"

 

Nobody here attacked women who can afford makeup and enjoy wearing it. I don't appreciate references to high horses and pride toward women who are modest, simple, poor, religious, or allergic!

 

:iagree: Thanks for writing. I went back and looked at a few pages wondering where the condemnation was and I didn't see it (but I didn't look at every page).

 

I don't give a hoot what others care to do. I choose for me and I'm happy with my choices (as is my family)! My boys tell me they want "low maintenance" wives too, so there will be some guys out there in the future for gals like some of us.

[kiana]

Well. I've just spent 20 minutes reading this thread, which I could have used to fix my hair and face. *hangs head in shame*

 

:leaving:

 

You slothful person, you! :D

 

(me too) (although it would likely take a lot more time :D)

[Jean in Newcastle]

:grouphug: I consider myself pretty low-maintenance, but reading some of the comments here has me wondering if people are judging me for the bit of trouble I do go to.

 

I doubt it. Most of the people in this thread have started out saying that they don't look at the appearance of those around them. The thread title itself has an implied judgement with the words "not put effort" into our appearance. People are a bit defensive in explaining that there are reasons other than laziness or slovenliness in why a woman may not have that as a priority for herself. These reasons apply to us as individuals and are not being used to bash others who don't have those reasons.

[LibraryLover]

I feel the need to add that while I do like to bathe and not wear PJS during the day, I am no Fashionista. lol I have a rep for being rather 'simple' ;) . I didn't think this thread was about going hog-wild on costly clothing and makeup. My sister trims my split ends and bangs. Other than that, I haven't had my hair cut in over in a year. It looks better longer & its fairly curly, so there isn't much that can be done with it. I can't go the flat iron route. lol A couple of fashionable barettes ;) lol (no such things exisit, really) and I'm good to go. I do like to highlight it, but that is very $ and I only do it sporadically. Once a year? It really should be every 6 weeks, but I am rather a fashion looser in that way. But I'm fine with that.

 

The heels thing, well, that's new and a bunch of fun. :) I do plead guilty there. I am middle class and I do sometimes put on a darker Burt's Bee's lip tint or other makeup. Most of my frineds are hippy types and don't wear make up that I have noticed. They look nice and cute. They wouldn't look themselves in makeup. They aren't in PJs or anything, and they do have running water to bathe. So maybe my version of 'taking care' is far different from say, a Beverly Hills housewife version. :D I think this thread is fun and I am not offended and I perhaps I heven't read carefully enough, but if people are people putting down women who aren't into/can't afford frills, I'm not on board with that.

Edited August 14, 2011 by LibraryLover

[YLVD]

Yeah, that's a little harsh. If I suddenly stopped spending 3 minutes throwing on a little make up after I woke up, that would not instantly become 3 minutes I could donate towards world peace.

 

Alternately, I could probably not buy make up and give that money to a charity. But I could also not buy toilet paper and give that money to a charity. You can always be more hardcore in your giving, but you don't have to be ridiculous.

 

:iagree:

 

I'm on a very limited income and while I'm not able to shop for clothes right now, I'm able to buy a tiny amount of cheap makeup if need be. I donate and volunteer plenty. I just do it wearing lip gloss.

[Mrs Mungo]

Just for the record, I don't feel condemned or judged by people in this thread, even though I wear makeup and such.

 

For me, I guess I just don't see any point. I never learned how to apply makeup, and I hate the way it feels on my face. But the reason I never learned how is because even in jr high, I just didn't see any point. I guess I have body image issues, because I sort of feel like it's not going to make any difference. I try to avoid mirrors.

 

And I just don't understand it. I don't really understand how to dress in a stylish way. I have a hard time knowing what goes together. I don't know how to make my hair look good.

 

I'm ashamed of how I look and just sort of don't see much point. In summer I wear elastic waist shorts and tshirts and crocs. In winter I wear elastic waist pants, tshirts, and sneakers. Or sometimes crocs with socks. If I'm cold I'll put on a sweater. I brush my hair to get tangles out, but I don't look in the mirror when I do it.

 

So, I guess that's one reason some women don't.

 

But these posts are heartbreaking because I think most of us (including me!!) could look better than we do. I am not one of those people who cannot lose weight when I try, and I currently need to. I even know how because I have done it before. Sigh.

 

Still, I *do* know what to do with my hair, how to put on makeup, how to dress and so forth. It makes a huge difference in how I feel and how I present myself in the world.

 

Again, if people want help, it is out there. Watch some online episodes of what not to wear, see what they recommend for your body type and adjust those ideas to fit with what you like. Watch some of the video makeup tutorials on youtube. Figure out what kind of hair you have. Maybe you save up and go to a pricey salon for a consult once?

[YLVD]

Just for the record, I don't feel condemned or judged by people in this thread, even though I wear makeup and such.

 

 

 

But these posts are heartbreaking because I think most of us (including me!!) could look better than we do. I am not one of those people who cannot lose weight when I try, and I currently need to. I even know how because I have done it before. Sigh.

 

Still, I *do* know what to do with my hair, how to put on makeup, how to dress and so forth. It makes a huge difference in how I feel and how I present myself in the world.

 

Again, if people want help, it is out there. Watch some online episodes of what not to wear, see what they recommend for your body type and adjust those ideas to fit with what you like. Watch some of the video makeup tutorials on youtube. Figure out what kind of hair you have. Maybe you save up and go to a pricey salon for a consult once?

 

:iagree:

 

I'm coming in a bit late to this discussion but have my own thoughts on it. I'm a bit middle-maintenance as I try to keep my toes and nails painted, hair cut and colored and wear makeup just about daily. I'm really pale and need it!

 

I've let things slip a little since being diagnosed with bipolar disorder and working from home. I've gained a few pounds and haven't been fixing my hair as much daily.

 

But, I've gotten back to the gym and I make an effort most days. I have no money right now but I stocked up a bit ago on salon-type hair color. I use Wella. The dye, developer and supplies that I can buy and that last 6 months equal the cost of two boxes of dye at the store.

 

I just do a lot myself. I know that when I was making a strident effort, I felt much better.

 

I grew up a tomboy with a mother that was a fashion model. I have never been a super girly girl. That is part of the reason why I do try to wear perfume, makeup, etc. I'm still very much a tomboy and it separates me from the men-folk, lol

 

I remember what it was like when I was in my best shape and putting effort in my appearance. I was in college full time, working and a single parent. How is that for time and cash strapped? Yet, that extra 20 minutes a day put me in a different class. I was able to showcase intelligence and confidence, while also experiencing positive attention. It was good times. I want to get back there.

Edited August 12, 2011 by YLVD

[LibraryLover]

To maintain a "stylish" feminine hair style means getting a cut every 6 weeks. I think the cheapest I could possibly find would be $15/"trim". 52/6*$15~$130/year. My family just doesn't have that money, especially considering that everyone else in the house also needs a "trim". Other things are more important to us, like paying the electric bill. I probably get my hair cut once per year.

 

 

I get that. My sister trims my split ends. I know not everyone trusts their sister with scissors. My dd also don't cut their hair. Dh and the boys do. That does add up, but it's no place fancy. I imagine a trim would be at the bottom of the hierarchy of needs.

Edited August 14, 2011 by LibraryLover

[YLVD]

But you don't have a thread talking about men and their lack of hygiene or fitness. Why don't ALL men take care of their bodies? It only takes 30 minutes a day. It's practically free! Nope, no criticism about men not taking care of themselves. But here we are discussing whether or not a woman should wear makeup or respectable clothes.

 

I believe that men should be taking the same time to workout, take care of their bodies, hair, etc. I think that this criticism should be for both genders. Sure, the makeup thing is different, but much of it stays the same.

[YLVD]

I get that. I haven't gone to a salon in over a year. My sister trims my split ends. I know not everyone trusts their sister with scissors. My dd also don't cut their hair. Dh and the boys do. That does add up, but it's no place fancy. I imagine a trim would be at the bottom of the needs barrel.

 

Yep, I found a great stylist nearby and she charges $18, and I'm in a high cost of living area. Between DD and I, we can get haircuts for under $50 about every 4 to 6 months. I dye my own hair with pro products that are cheap at beauty supply stores. I'm a fake redhead and not giving it up! SO shaves his own head, lol

Edited August 12, 2011 by YLVD

[Mrs Mungo]

I get my hair cut probably once a year. I have my mom do it when I am visiting, or I get it cut someplace expensive. My hair is way too curly to trust to just anyone. I have learned this lesson the hard way. I get it cut short when I get it cut so that the cut lasts a long time. I hate long hair on me, but I hate getting my hair cut; it is highly stress inducing. I would rather go to the dentist.:(

[LibraryLover]

Just for the record, I don't feel condemned or judged by people in this thread, even though I wear makeup and such.

 

?

 

I had no idea there was such an undercurrent of anger in the thread until this morning. I thought it was fun. I do sometimes forget there are many here who do live in poverty, so I apologize if I seemed insensitive. I don't think people should choose nail polish (another thing I rarely wear, although I love it when I do) over feeding their kids.

 

I was more thinking about bathing, sometimes sexing it up for your partner (which really, for most men means no clothing at all- so, free!) and choosing a skirt or a skort over wearing sweats (which make me look awful!) I think it's fine for other people to wear them and I honestly don't look at what folks are wearing when I'm at the market. I've never been one to post about how terrible it is to see people wearing their PJs at Target. I really don't care. :)

[Anne in CA]

Probably this thread is dying, but I wanted to add something.

 

I have been to Nepal four times. Nepal is one of the poorest countries in the world. Those women have style. They scrape together money for nail polish and nice outfits when they are not sure how their families will eat tomorrow, because they have to look good to get work and keep respect for their husbands to keep their jobs. They are experts at trimming their own hair and they take excellent care of cheap plastic flip flops to make them actual accessories.

 

I live close to an agricultural communtiy with migrant workers. A friend goes out and paints fingernails and cuts hair for those women, who also scrape up money for goodwill clothes to make a decent "look". I have seen nurses and other women who make waaaaay more money than those migrant women who don't look as good on their best days as those women do going to mass.

 

Some really poor women know that there is only one life on earth and they spend it holding up their heads.

 

There, I just wanted to speak for those women, because I respect them so much. That is all.

[Mrs Mungo]

I had no idea there was such an undercurrent of anger in the thread until this morning. I thought it was fun. I do sometimes forget there are many here who do live in poverty, so I apologize if I seemed insensitive. I don't think people should choose nail polish (another thing I rarely wear, although I love it when I do) over feeding their kids.

 

I was more thinking about bathing, sometimes sexing it up for your partner (which really, for most men means no clothing at all- so, free!) and choosing a skirt or a skort over wearing sweats (which make me look awful!) I think it's fine for other people to wear them and I honestly don't look at what folks are wearing when I'm at the market. I've never been one to post about how terrible it is to see people wearing their PJs at Target. I really don't care. :)

 

I agree, except I don't think people should wear pjs in public unless under extreme circumstances. ;)

[*Inna*]

 

You slothful person, you! :D

Yep, that's me. :D Although, I have to confess that I felt motivated enough by this thread to go and take a shower.

[LibraryLover]

Not personally, unless you want to.

 

Rosie

 

 

Exactly. :) It's really not personal. Although sometimes it does feel personal.

[Truscifi]

I understand what you're saying, and I agreed earlier on with your point that the recession makes things like make up and hair appointments out of the question for many people.

 

Maybe it's just me, but I didn't read the OP as suggesting people put out more money to obtain these things. She specifically said if one is paying already to have an outdated hair cut, that it costs no more to have a "modern" do. Or, if one is inclined already to purchase make-up, why is it either poorly applied, or not worn. If one is going to buy used clothes at a consignment, why not clothes that fit well versus those that look frumpy and ugly.

 

In other words, it seemed to me she was questioning the motive behind an intentional choice to affect a poor appearance. I don't think she was speaking to those who are constrained by finances or other considerations from taking more care with their personal appearance.

 

I think that's a fine distinction, and is why I postulated that sometimes, it's emotional stress and/or other issues that just rob a person of the energy to care anymore.

 

I read it this way as well. It seems this is a sore spot for many people though.

 

I don't wear make up (well, I do once a year or so to go out somewhere nice) or keep up with what is fashionable for clothes and hair. However, I do maintain a neat hair style, and usually remember to comb it before I leave the house. And I don't have money for lots of new clothes these days, but on the occasions when I need to buy a new clothing item and can afford to do so, if the thrift shop has sweats and a pair of cute jeans side by side for the same price, I choose the cute jeans. I am all for being comfortable, and sometimes wear my workout pants to the store because they are so comfy, but even for my workout pants I choose the cutest option I can afford at that time.

 

On second read that seems very rambly. I hope my point comes across in there somewhere.

[justamouse]

Probably this thread is dying, but I wanted to add something.

 

I have been to Nepal four times. Nepal is one of the poorest countries in the world. Those women have style. They scrape together money for nail polish and nice outfits when they are not sure how their families will eat tomorrow, because they have to look good to get work and keep respect for their husbands to keep their jobs. They are experts at trimming their own hair and they take excellent care of cheap plastic flip flops to make them actual accessories.

 

I live close to an agricultural communtiy with migrant workers. A friend goes out and paints fingernails and cuts hair for those women, who also scrape up money for goodwill clothes to make a decent "look". I have seen nurses and other women who make waaaaay more money than those migrant women who don't look as good on their best days as those women do going to mass.

 

Some really poor women know that there is only one life on earth and they spend it holding up their heads.

 

There, I just wanted to speak for those women, because I respect them so much. That is all.

 

That is an amazing post.

[Parrothead]

Am I missing something?

 

I and others answered why we don't use makeup or make fashion a priority. I took the liberty of answering for the very poor, and said that those who can't even afford shoes must, by default, see makeup and salon hairstyles as vain things. Others also spoke on behalf of those with allergies to makeup, religious convictions, simple or rural lifestyles, and personal preference.

 

 

 

Nobody here attacked women who can afford makeup and enjoy wearing it. I don't appreciate references to high horses and pride toward women who are modest, simple, poor, religious, or allergic!

You are doing it in your own post. Either that or you have a very different definition of the word vain.

 

No, when I was poor growing up or early in my career I did not see people who had department store make up or salon styled hair as vain. Not having money does not mean those who are able to afford these things are vain.

 

Being called vain is a personal attack.

 

Here is another one:

Some of us don't count vanity as something to value. I can't believe how much time and money people spend on their appearances when they could be donating that time and money to much more important matters than their clothing, hair, and skin.

This is nothing but holier than thou. Because she doesn't see value in taking time/money in her appearance shame on everyone who does. That 5-30 minutes every day should be used to better mankind.

 

So, yeah, just as the group who doesn't see value, prefer to take the time or otherwise doesn't get it feels put upon and/or insulted, with words like yours and others, those who do see the value also feel put upon and/or insulted.

[YLVD]

I do think men should put effort into their appearance. I don't want to see a bunch of guys with their pot bellies hanging out of the "wife beater" and their hair all greasy with nastiness all over their face.

 

This!!! :iagree:

[Mrs Mungo]

Chucki, I forgot about the world peace post. I guess it didn't bother me because it is sort of ridiculous and it smacked of sour grapes to me.

[Parrothead]

I had no idea there was such an undercurrent of anger in the thread until this morning. I thought it was fun. I do sometimes forget there are many here who do live in poverty, so I apologize if I seemed insensitive. I don't think people should choose nail polish (another thing I rarely wear, although I love it when I do) over feeding their kids.

 

I was more thinking about bathing, sometimes sexing it up for your partner (which really, for most men means no clothing at all- so, free!) and choosing a skirt or a skort over wearing sweats (which make me look awful!) I think it's fine for other people to wear them and I honestly don't look at what folks are wearing when I'm at the market. I've never been one to post about how terrible it is to see people wearing their PJs at Target. I really don't care. :)

It was there last night - from both sides.

[Parrothead]

Chucki, I forgot about the world peace post. I guess it didn't bother me because it is sort of ridiculous and it smacked of sour grapes to me.

I personally thought it was a slap in the face.

[myfunnybunch]

I think we're back to the question asked earlier in this thread: Why are women so hard on each other?

 

If you do wear makeup and color your hair and buy stylish clothing, you're vain. If you don't, you're frumpy. If you're poor and buy yourself inexpensive lip gloss and nail polish, you're either taking care of yourself despite trying circumstances or you're frivolous and shallow; if you choose not to wear makeup even if you can afford it, you're either not the best and most beautiful you can be or you're virtuous.

 

*sigh*

 

Cat

Edited August 12, 2011 by myfunnybunch

[Tarreymere]

I certainly expect a certain standard from men, too. Basic cleanliness, to start with. Plain soap is not too expensive. Now I know that in the middle of working or doing a dirty chore that DH isn't going to be clean but I do expect him to shower daily and brush his teeth. He darn well better be clean before he comes to bed.

 

I think men can trim those little hairs that grow out of their noses and ears, too. And keep their hair trimmed neatly. I have given DH more grief over letting his hair grow wild than anything else in our marriage, he just looks so unprofessional and lazy with overgrown hair sticking out at weird angles and so frizzy too. We do own hair clippers and I do know how to use them, so no excuses. Now, I do not care for long hair in men but if it is planned that way and maintained neatly I don't have a problem with it. Except if you use the length to make a comb-over.

 

I don't like to see a man with very fussy hair anymore than a woman with very fussy hair. Don't get me started on men who don't maintain their facial hair, sometimes that is very disgusting.

 

I think men look much better in clean clothes that fit, too. Without holes, please. And go easy on the aftershave.

[matermagistra]

I think we're back to the question asked earlier in this thread: Why are women so hard on each other?

 

If you do wear makeup and color your hair and buy stylish clothing, you're vain. If you don't, you're frumpy. If you're poor and buy yourself inexpensive lip gloss and nail polish, you're either taking care of yourself despite trying circumstances or you're frivolous and shallow; if you choose not to wear makeup even if you can afford it, you're either not the best and most beautiful you can be or virtuous.

 

*sigh*

 

Cat

 

I am sighing right along with you. I don't usually post on these kinds of issues-you will see that I hardly ever post on the forums at all. I regret posting in this one earlier. Not because I regret what I said or believe about this issue, but because in an artificial environment such as an internet forum a lot is lost. We can not see each other face-to-face, we can not hear the person's actual voice and we can not see the messages conveyed through body language. The immediacy of response causes us to lose the valuable asset of time that allows us to step back and consider a statement carefully and our response to that statement just as carefully.

 

We have lost sight of the big picture when we allow ourselves to be caught up in petty bickering over issues that are not sin. Since this a homeschooling forum, I am assuming that all of us here are parents who are home educating our children and we came here because we were looking for answers to questions, support for the hard days and friendship in a sometimes isolating lifestyle choice.

 

Why are we bickering about this issue? It has nothing to do with home educating our children. All of the energy spent in this defensive stand-off could have been directed at lifting each other up as we begin another school year and all that goes with it.

 

As I said before, our Creator made us all different and He was pleased with His work. That means He finds value in diversity. Maybe we should too. So I like to wear make-up. Big deal. I still care about my children as passionately as those of you who do not. Wearing it or not wearing it doesn't make us better people, better parents or better Christians. It's just who we are and what we've decided to do for whatever reason. I don't believe that on Judgment Day God is going to judge me based on something as petty as whether or not I happened to wear mascara or not. I just don't think He cares a bit where I get my clothes from or what style my hair is. Instead, I believe He will judge me based on how I treated His children and how I judged and treated them during my time on earth. He will judge me based on whether or not I did my best to train my children in the Way that they should go and whether I treated my brothers and sisters here on earth the way I would want to be treated and whether or not I let others see His love through me.

 

Time is too short and the days too evil to spend it tearing each other down for these kinds of issues. I need help and support on this journey we call homeschooling, and I bet you do too. Let's focus our energies there, shall we?

 

~Love to all

Edited August 12, 2011 by matermagistra

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

You are doing it in your own post. Either that or you have a very different definition of the word vain.

 

No, when I was poor growing up or early in my career I did not see people who had department store make up or salon styled hair as vain. Not having money does not mean those who are able to afford these things are vain.

 

Being called vain is a personal attack.

 

Here is another one:

 

This is nothing but holier than thou. Because she doesn't see value in taking time/money in her appearance shame on everyone who does. That 5-30 minutes every day should be used to better mankind.

 

So, yeah, just as the group who doesn't see value, prefer to take the time or otherwise doesn't get it feels put upon and/or insulted, with words like yours and others, those who do see the value also feel put upon and/or insulted.

 

Chucki, I decided to consult the dictionary and I think I've found the problem.

 

**************************************************************************************

Definition of VAIN

 

1

: having no real value : idle, worthless

 

2

: marked by futility or ineffectualness : unsuccessful, useless <vain efforts to escape>

 

3

archaic : foolish, silly

 

4

: having or showing undue or excessive pride in one's appearance or achievements : conceited

*********************************************************************************

 

I've been talking about definitions #1 and #2. For the poverty-stricken, salon hairstyles, makeup, and designer fashions have no real value, are worthless, and the pursuit of them (for the poverty-stricken) is marked by futility or ineffectualness. Those things actually detract from the poor woman's ability to provide food, clothing, and shelter for her family and are vain in her life.

 

Y'all are hearing me use the word 'vain' and interpreting the word according to definitions #3 and #4. You think I'm saying that fashionable women are foolish, silly, and showing undue or excessive pride in their appearance. You hear me singing, "You're so vain, I bet you think this song is about you." But honestly, I meant #1 and #2.

 

(I also discarded the world peace thing as a ridiculous position. Every person prioritizes some non-essentials that would have to be pried from their cold dead hands. In my case those are books and folk instruments.)

 

Having clarified that, I think I'll bow out of this vain (definition #2) discussion.

[Parrothead]

Chucki, I decided to consult the dictionary and I think I've found the problem.

 

**************************************************************************************

Definition of VAIN

 

1

: having no real value : idle, worthless

 

2

: marked by futility or ineffectualness : unsuccessful, useless <vain efforts to escape>

 

3

archaic : foolish, silly

 

4

: having or showing undue or excessive pride in one's appearance or achievements : conceited

*********************************************************************************

 

I've been talking about definitions #1 and #2. For the poverty-stricken, salon hairstyles, makeup, and designer fashions have no real value, are worthless, and the pursuit of them (for the poverty-stricken) is marked by futility or ineffectualness. Those things actually detract from the poor woman's ability to provide food, clothing, and shelter for her family and are vain in her life.

 

Y'all are hearing me use the word 'vain' and interpreting the word according to definitions #3 and #4. You think I'm saying that fashionable women are foolish, silly, and showing undue or excessive pride in their appearance. You hear me singing, "You're so vain, I bet you think this song is about you." But honestly, I meant #1 and #2.

 

(I also discarded the world peace thing as a ridiculous position. Every person prioritizes some non-essentials that would have to be pried from their cold dead hands. In my case those are books and folk instruments.)

 

Having clarified that, I think I'll bow out of this vain (definition #2) discussion.

Okay, thanks for clarifying.

 

Truth be told though, I've met some pretty poor impoverished women who are pretty vain using any definition of the word. Women who would have their acrylic nails over feeding their children.

[Myra]

I just had to post. I wear what I feel comfortable in - without worrying about what my husband, friends, children, community, etc. feels about my decisions. I don't wear any makeup or even shave my legs. Usually you'll find me in a pair of levi jeans or sweatpants with a nice t-shirt. I'm well-groomed with a wash-and-go hair style. Why? Because being comfy and relaxed is what it's all about for me. I'm glad to be out of the corporate/career game and just hanging out with my kids and other homeschoolers.

 

Myra

[Mrs Mungo]

I want to clarify a couple of points.

 

When I said that I think we should do the best we can with what we have got, that statement leaves itself open for a wide variation of interpretations.

 

I absolutely believe in variety and realize not everyone places the same value on this or that thing. The only thing that I said made me sad was when people said that they *wanted* to learn how to fix their hair, do makeup, dress more nicely but that they didn't know how or think it was worth it because their self-esteem was so low. That is sad to me. Every one of us is equally valuable. Every one of us is worthy of whatever it is we want to invest in ourselves. I am *not* one of those naturally gifted in these areas, I had to learn how to do these things. I am *not* a beauty queen, I just do the best I can with what I've got.

[Audrey]

I like to spend a little time looking nice. It takes me maybe 30 minutes to shower and do hair and make-up. I like to wear clothes that flatter my figure. For me, there is no day where I don't do that.

 

But... not everyone is into that, and that's just fine.

 

Now, I'm not sure if you're talking about people who just never bother with their looks or people who are out and out slovenly. I will admit that there are some things that, when I see them, kind of bother me, but that's mostly because I hate the example that it sets for my child. I don't want him to be a vain little snot, but I also don't want him to think it is okay to be slovenly. There is a happy medium.

[creekland]

I think we're back to the question asked earlier in this thread: Why are women so hard on each other?

 

If you do wear makeup and color your hair and buy stylish clothing, you're vain. If you don't, you're frumpy. If you're poor and buy yourself inexpensive lip gloss and nail polish, you're either taking care of yourself despite trying circumstances or you're frivolous and shallow; if you choose not to wear makeup even if you can afford it, you're either not the best and most beautiful you can be or you're virtuous.

 

*sigh*

 

Cat

 

But, see, I just don't see any of these things as putting down other people. I see them as people expressing their opinions. I fully understand that we all aren't going to agree. And I fully believe in everyone having the right to have, and express, their opinion. I sort of thought that was a major foundation to our country.

 

I seriously don't care what others think about me and my opinions, but I'm willing to share them just because that's what forums are all about. The OP didn't understand why some people don't take care of themselves as much as they do. I explained my reasons - as have others.

 

Now, I did just give my 15 year old son a severe talking to as I discovered he hasn't brushed his teeth since MONDAY (when we got back from a trip to visit family)! I do have my limits. :tongue_smilie: I think the ability to not brush one's teeth in 4 days comes from the y chromosome, but, well, who knows?

[Lisa R.]

OP here. I didn't realize that this would be as controversial and sensitive as shopping cart returns, crockpot choices, or shoes/no shoes in the house.

 

I read and re-read my post and can see how it could come across as condescending. While I didn't *think* I judged people based on their appearance, I often wondered why they make choices that are different from mine. After reading these posts, I need to examine whether I'm being curious or judgmental.

 

Thanks to all the people who answered the question in the spirit in which I intended. Many of the answers were: sickness, religious reasons, bad school experiences, lack of knowledge, allergies, disinterest in current fashion, lack of time, lack of money, and so on.

 

I'd like to send a message out specifically to those who have difficulty affording basic necessities and thus can't afford make up. That's called having the right priorities. If anyone thinks that you should spend money on a haircut instead of buying your kid's shoes, well, they are crazy. Yes, you can call that judgmental.

[mommaduck]

Okay, thanks for clarifying.

 

Truth be told though, I've met some pretty poor impoverished women who are pretty vain using any definition of the word. Women who would have their acrylic nails over feeding their children.

 

Yep. I see it all the time :( I'll admit though that I bought $5 acrylics, did them myself, and ripped them off the next day. I figured it wouldn't do to be trying to sell candles with my ugly fingernails that night :p But that's $5 grocery store basics compared to these LONG works of art I see. And heavens, I only own two pieces of REAL jewelry (two cross necklaces my godmother had gifted me from Ireland). That is extremely modest compared to the ranks of chains and hoops earrings I see around me.

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

OP here. I didn't realize that this would be as controversial and sensitive as shopping cart returns, crockpot choices, or shoes/no shoes in the house.

 

I read and re-read my post and can see how it could come across as condescending. While I didn't *think* I judged people based on their appearance, I often wondered why they make choices that are different from mine. After reading these posts, I need to examine whether I'm being curious or judgmental.

 

Thanks to all the people who answered the question in the spirit in which I intended. Many of the answers were: sickness, religious reasons, bad school experiences, lack of knowledge, allergies, disinterest in current fashion, lack of time, lack of money, and so on.

 

I'd like to send a message out specifically to those who have difficulty affording basic necessities and thus can't afford make up. That's called having the right priorities. If anyone thinks that you should spend money on a haircut instead of buying your kid's shoes, well, they are crazy. Yes, you can call that judgmental.

 

:grouphug:

 

I like this post! You could have come back wailing about being misunderstood and attacked, but you didn't. You clarified your own intentions and examined your own motivations without accusing, placating, groveling, or backtracking. You didn't even say, "And that's why I never post on these boards! I can't take all this fighting and drama!" LOL

 

That's what I love about WTM'ers. Do we have a Bee of the Day award?