s/o of s/o Why do some women not put effort into their appearance??

[sassyscrapperinid]

:iagree: I busted out laughing when I got to this post because it is exactly what I have been thinking about this whole topic. I say this as I sit here in my pjs drinking my beer as I am pretty sure my hubby (of 20 years) is getting ready to wisk me off for some teAtime. ;)

 

 

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

[WishboneDawn]

:iagree:

 

I think what I'm observing here is that there are words with "moral implications" attached being used.

 

When one says, "let herself go" or "doesn't care," those have a moral connotation that what someone is doing is not right.

 

On the other side, when someone says, "I don't waste my time on that," or "That is not a wise investment," etc., they are making a moral statement that their perspective of what is a wise investment or a wise use of time is the proper method of measure.

 

I also find that when I am tempted to look at someone else's appearance and judge it, what I am really doing is projecting my own feelings and actions upon them. For instance, when I am dressed in sweats (although I don't currently own any) and a wrinkled t-shirt with no make-up and my hair not blow dried, it is because I am feeling lazy and/or unmotivated. So, I can easily project that onto someone else. I have to stop myself and realize that just because that's how I would be feeling about myself if I were presented that way does not mean that is how someone else is feeling.

 

In like manner, I hope that another woman can stop herself if she's tempted to look at my minimal makeup and accessories and assume that I am caught up in my phsyical appearance and that I waste my money. Just because that may be true for her if she were to present herself the way I am does not mean it's true for me.

 

I am really working at looking at everyone for who they are and not what I am tempted to project upon them.

 

Excellent post.

[Audrey]

wow.. that is a weird thread... when I am trying to teaching my daughter that appearance is not the most important thing, it is what inside count. I found this thread very shallow.

I don't wear make up unless goes to a party. I have a long overdue haircut. I work as an engineer and most of us are like that. and I don't see anything wrong with it. There is a lot more in life than putting on make up and go salon

 

 

It's rather shallow to presume that just because someone does put on make up and go to a salon that is ALL there is in their life.

[Audrey]

Or heaven forbid you just had a day where you wanted to dress up a bit with no other reason then just to dress up. We're allowed to do that, aren't we?

 

No, you shameless, shallow hussy! You are to remain as plain and unadorned as humanly possible at all times. At. All. Times! ;)

[Parrothead]

Or heaven forbid you just had a day where you wanted to dress up a bit with no other reason then just to dress up. We're allowed to do that, aren't we?

 

 

You better believe it! ;):D

[jennynd]

It's rather shallow to presume that just because someone does put on make up and go to a salon that is ALL there is in their life.

when people think others doesn't care about themsleves just without make up and nice clothes and hair and further more wondering why other people not to do the same. Yes, that is my defination of shallow.

Edited August 13, 2011 by jennynd

[sassyscrapperinid]

I get my hair cut every 4-5 weeks, my nails done every 2 weeks and try to buy nice clothes, though I don't spend a ton on clothing..but I do try to look nice when I leave the house.

 

Despite what some here might have to say, I am NOT "vain" and I am not selfish..at all.

 

It takes me 30 minutes to shower and get myself together for the day and they are 30 restful, peaceful minutes very well spent.

 

Heck, some of my best prayer time is spent in the shower! lol

 

After seeing the comment that the people here feel the ones who do put more effort into their appearance are vain and selfish.... I dont judge the people at walmart or where ever who are wearing make up and such to say that. Like a pp said- to each their own. Quite frankly, most of the time, I just have too much to worry about than to be concerned about other peoples make up, hair, clothes, etc. Not to say that when I see someone who I think looks nice, I might make a comment to my daughter, something along the lines of "wow, she looks nice" or "that is a cute outfit" or whatever. Not that I have never thought a negative thing about someone elses appearance but I certainly wouldnt say it outloud.

[sassyscrapperinid]

Why do people care about this 'appearance' stuff so much? [as evidenced by 20+ page threads]

 

Just do your thing - whatever that may be - and let others do theirs. :cheers2:

 

yep!! :001_smile:

[ezrabean2005]

In the last thread, some were talking about being low maintenance about their appearance. This is different than not putting virtually any effort forth.

 

What I mean is wearing unflattering clothes, an unflattering hair cut, and for some, not wearing any make up. (While some women look great without make up, some looked washed out and tired without it.)

 

I don't think money is the cause. Even if one shops at Goodwill, nicer fitting clothing is the same price as old, baggy sweat pants. Mascara and blush at Target would cost $10 every six months.

 

I also don't think weight is an issue as people of all sizes look attractive when they make an effort.

 

An updated haircut costs as much as an outdated one.

 

I ask this question because I often see a woman wearing baggy sweats and an old, ill-fitting tee shirt, and I wonder why she doesn't take a bit more effort for herself. It takes one afternoon of shopping and 15-20 minutes of extra time in the morning. It's difficult to believe most people can't spare that small amount of time.

 

My dd works with a woman in her 50s. She wears jeans and different colored Gap tee shirts. She pairs them with different scarves and always looks great. Simple, decent quality, inexpensive.

 

Again, I'm not talking about people that favor a low-maintenance look. That's intentional and attractive, too. I'm wondering about those who do not take any time with their clothing, hair, or skin.

 

For me, I'm satisfied with how I look naturally, and the extra time doesn't make that much of a difference. I've never gotten a professional haircut after age eight because I have a huge scar under my hair (from domestic abuse), that I cry every time I have to explain it to another stylist. I'd leave before they touched me, it was too humiliating. I cut my own hair and although it may not be a modern style, the alternative is far too painful. Surgery to remove the scar will be about 5-7k.

 

My clothes are simple, but fit well and won't be "current". I have literally two pairs of pants, one skirt, one pair of sandals, one pair of other shoes, and four shirts. I like it this way. They are all my favorite clothes and make me happy when I see them.

 

So I think I do make an effort, but it's not an effort you'd recognize if you were glancing at me at Target for less than 30 seconds.

 

And the real me is invisible anyway.

Edited August 13, 2011 by ezrabean2005

[kiana]

:iagree:

 

I think what I'm observing here is that there are words with "moral implications" attached being used.

 

When one says, "let herself go" or "doesn't care," those have a moral connotation that what someone is doing is not right.

 

On the other side, when someone says, "I don't waste my time on that," or "That is not a wise investment," etc., they are making a moral statement that their perspective of what is a wise investment or a wise use of time is the proper method of measure.

 

I also find that when I am tempted to look at someone else's appearance and judge it, what I am really doing is projecting my own feelings and actions upon them. For instance, when I am dressed in sweats (although I don't currently own any) and a wrinkled t-shirt with no make-up and my hair not blow dried, it is because I am feeling lazy and/or unmotivated. So, I can easily project that onto someone else. I have to stop myself and realize that just because that's how I would be feeling about myself if I were presented that way does not mean that is how someone else is feeling.

 

In like manner, I hope that another woman can stop herself if she's tempted to look at my minimal makeup and accessories and assume that I am caught up in my phsyical appearance and that I waste my money. Just because that may be true for her if she were to present herself the way I am does not mean it's true for me.

 

I am really working at looking at everyone for who they are and not what I am tempted to project upon them.

 

This is very well said.

[matermagistra]

:iagree:

 

I think what I'm observing here is that there are words with "moral implications" attached being used.

 

When one says, "let herself go" or "doesn't care," those have a moral connotation that what someone is doing is not right.

 

On the other side, when someone says, "I don't waste my time on that," or "That is not a wise investment," etc., they are making a moral statement that their perspective of what is a wise investment or a wise use of time is the proper method of measure.

 

I also find that when I am tempted to look at someone else's appearance and judge it, what I am really doing is projecting my own feelings and actions upon them. For instance, when I am dressed in sweats (although I don't currently own any) and a wrinkled t-shirt with no make-up and my hair not blow dried, it is because I am feeling lazy and/or unmotivated. So, I can easily project that onto someone else. I have to stop myself and realize that just because that's how I would be feeling about myself if I were presented that way does not mean that is how someone else is feeling.

 

In like manner, I hope that another woman can stop herself if she's tempted to look at my minimal makeup and accessories and assume that I am caught up in my phsyical appearance and that I waste my money. Just because that may be true for her if she were to present herself the way I am does not mean it's true for me.

 

I am really working at looking at everyone for who they are and not what I am tempted to project upon them.

 

This is excellent.

[Laura Corin]

My whole take on the OPs question is how can women walk around looking different from what her (the OPs) standards seem to be regarding personal appearance? And the part where she asks why a woman would want an outdated haircut/style is what sealed that for me.

 

I wear the clothes and choose the hairstyles I like. These may or may not be fashionable. I'm not interested in fashion, don't read magazines (well, apart from The Economist and Harpers) and rarely shop for clothes. I buy (mostly online) the clothes that I like. I wear a hairstyle that I think suits me. I don't usually wear makeup because I find it inconvenient (in the summer, I'll be in the garden for at least a portion of each day with my hair falling over my eyes; in the winter you'll find me walking the dog with my eyes watering from the wind). I like to wear jewelry, but its the same every day - I like each piece so I don't feel the need to change it.

 

I'm sure that the OP would feel that I don't care, but that's not right. The way I want to look is just not the same as the way that the OP wants to look.

 

Laura

[Rosie_0801]

when people think others doesn't care about themsleves just without make up and nice clothes and hair and further more wondering why other people not to do the same. Yes, that is my defination of shallow.

 

I think people should be allowed to wonder about stuff. I may not care much for or about their opinion, but without those opinions flying about cyberspace, I'd be feeling like I was in solitary confinement and I'd go nuts.

 

So ner. :tongue_smilie:

 

Rosie

[twoforjoy]

I wouldn't judge people for getting dressed up to go to Target; I just wouldn't notice.

 

I do think it's kind of sad, though, that people get so worked up and worried about other people not being dressed/made up to their standards. I don't care if you show up at the grocery store in your PJs or in a ball gown. But it's just sad if you spend your time in the grocery store worrying about what other people are wearing, getting upset because they aren't dressed the way you think they should be, or passing judgments on them because of it.

 

Clearly people have different preferences and different priorities. Recognizing that, I don't think there's really any reason to judge somebody's mood, motivation, or morality based on whether or not you think they've put an adequate amount of effort into their appearance.

[Evergreen State Sue]

I have skimmed through the posts to get a flavor for the responses.

 

For me, I stopped wearing make-up because it makes me itchy. I'll wear it for special occasions, but those don't happen but a few times a year. No make-up feels comfortable and easy to me. I can pick up and go out the door without worry that "my face isn't on" because I do have the face that God gave me! This does not mean that I don't keep myself clean. I shower and wash my hair nearly every day and of course keep good dental hygiene.

 

As far as my hair is concerned, I wear it long and straight, which is how God naturally made me. I get a trim every 6 weeks. I have had short and curly styles in the past, but that costs more money to keep them looking that way. I am not opposed to coloring my hair, but so far in my early 50's I haven't had the need to. I'm sure that will come. Currently I'm trying to keep my hair as pure as possible so that I can cut it and donate it to Locks of Love.

 

As far as clothes are concerned, comfort is key for my around the house and buzzing around town look. I put a little more effort for church and other occasions.

 

Make-up, stylish haircuts, and modern clothes are great -but not important to me. I'm fortunate that I could afford a little of such things but choose not to. It's just not how I would want to spend my money. YMMV

[LibraryLover]

I think people should be allowed to wonder about stuff. I may not care much for or about their opinion, but without those opinions flying about cyberspace, I'd be feeling like I was in solitary confinement and I'd go nuts.

 

So ner. :tongue_smilie:

 

Rosie

 

 

:001_smile:

[creekland]

I wouldn't judge people for getting dressed up to go to Target; I just wouldn't notice.

 

I do think it's kind of sad, though, that people get so worked up and worried about other people not being dressed/made up to their standards. I don't care if you show up at the grocery store in your PJs or in a ball gown. But it's just sad if you spend your time in the grocery store worrying about what other people are wearing, getting upset because they aren't dressed the way you think they should be, or passing judgments on them because of it.

 

Clearly people have different preferences and different priorities. Recognizing that, I don't think there's really any reason to judge somebody's mood, motivation, or morality based on whether or not you think they've put an adequate amount of effort into their appearance.

 

:iagree: I think I might notice the ball gown though and would assume they were heading somewhere appropriate. I seldom notice much else.

[Haiku]

(While some women look great without make up, some looked washed out and tired without it.)

 

 

So what? Men never wear make-up and no one would ever suggest a man should wear it to avoid looking washed-out and tired or like he's putting effort into his appearance.

 

While I'm sure you didn't mean it as such, that was an incredibly sexist comment, and, like shaving, it really upsets me that women put so much pressure on one another.

 

Tara

[Aggie]

I wouldn't judge people for getting dressed up to go to Target; I just wouldn't notice.

 

I do think it's kind of sad, though, that people get so worked up and worried about other people not being dressed/made up to their standards. I don't care if you show up at the grocery store in your PJs or in a ball gown. But it's just sad if you spend your time in the grocery store worrying about what other people are wearing, getting upset because they aren't dressed the way you think they should be, or passing judgments on them because of it.

 

Clearly people have different preferences and different priorities. Recognizing that, I don't think there's really any reason to judge somebody's mood, motivation, or morality based on whether or not you think they've put an adequate amount of effort into their appearance.

 

 

:iagree: This may have already been mentioned, but we never know what someone is going through. That woman with no make-up may have spent the night at the hospital with her terminally ill parent, husband, child or friend. One woman may be in the midst of spending months caring for a loved one. One may be recovering from the loss of a child. We never know, do we?

 

 

So what? Men never wear make-up and no one would ever suggest a man should wear it to avoid looking washed-out and tired or like he's putting effort into his appearance.

 

While I'm sure you didn't mean it as such, that was an incredibly sexist comment, and, like shaving, it really upsets me that women put so much pressure on one another.

 

Tara

:iagree:

[Denisemomof4]

for me personally, I never leave the house without make-up, earrings, and a good hair styling, and what I consider presentable clothing. The clothing can be anything from a tie dyed t-shirt to a very nice blouse, both usually with jeans. Periodically I will wear capri work out pants when I take dd to swim and I'm just sitting at the YMCA, or even if I have a quick errand to run, but that's not often. There are days that I don't feel good about myself because I'm having a bad hair day. That's just ME.

 

Almost everyone I know doesn't wear make-up and puts very little effort into doing their hair. That's THEIR choice.

 

The few days I did go out looking like a wreck, they're usually when I'm in severe distress (think migraine or some other pain) and my appearance was nothing that mattered to me at all.

 

Dh thinks I look great without make-up. He also appreciates the time I put into myself so I look nice. I don't care about anyone else's opinion.

[twoforjoy]

So what? Men never wear make-up and no one would ever suggest a man should wear it to avoid looking washed-out and tired or like he's putting effort into his appearance.

 

While I'm sure you didn't mean it as such, that was an incredibly sexist comment, and, like shaving, it really upsets me that women put so much pressure on one another.

 

Tara

 

Plus, is it really a crime to look tired? Maybe somebody IS tired. If a man looks tired, I don't think anybody would assume he doesn't care about himself, has let himself go, etc. They'd figure he was working hard and deserved to look tired. Why can't a woman do the same? If I see a friend of mine looking tired, I don't assume they're depressed or letting themselves go or somehow doing something wrong: I assume they're tired. Some of them have lots of littles, some have stressful full-time jobs, some have challenging kids or packed schedules, all have a reason to be tired. I don't think they owe it to anybody to doll themselves up so that they don't look tired. I also don't really think that make-up and fancy clothes makes somebody tired look not tired, but just like a tired person trying to pretend they aren't, but maybe that's just my personal preference for a more natural, casual look.

 

:iagree: This may have already been mentioned, but we never know what someone is going through. That woman with no make-up may have spent the night at the hospital with her terminally ill parent, husband, child or friend. One woman may be in the midst of spending months caring for a loved one. One may be recovering from the loss of a child. We never know, do we?

 

Very true.

 

At the same time, I think it's also good to remember that the woman with no make-up, yoga pants, and a ponytail might be incredibly happy. Things might be going well in her life. She might have had a fabulous night and be heading for a fun lunch with a friend. She just might not care to get dressed up or put make-up on. And that's totally fine, too.

[Denisemomof4]

Plus, is it really a crime to look tired? Maybe somebody IS tired.

 

 

 

 

 

I look tired, and I believe I still do with make-up on. I put the make-up on to make ME feel better. I had severe, debilitating insomnia for almost 30 years. Yes, I look tired. Every time I look into the mirror I'm unhappy because I look tired. I had insomnia due to PTSD. Every time I look at my tired face I'm reminded of why I had insomnia for 30 years.

 

I've discussed this with dh. I want to have an eye job in the next year or two. I'm 48.. I want my battle scars gone. The one thing I dread, and so therefore keep putting it off, is the way others will talk about me behind my back and gossip about how I've resorted to plastic surgery. It's really nobody's business and they have no right to judge. They will.

 

Again, I do what I do to make ME feel good. I don't care about anyone else's opinion. But I dread that the gossip WILL happen.

[mommaduck]

Shoot, just saw this thread again. Now I have to figure out what to wear that would be appropriate for cleaning house AND looking presentable...

[CalicoKat]

Some of us don't have a clue, don't know how to get a clue, so give up.

 

:iagree: And we feel funny and uncomfortable when we do try something new because no one says anything. Personally I don't know what looks good on me. I go for comfortable instead.

 

But I do have an up-to-date hair do. I do have my eyebrows tweezed. I did buy some new clothing this summer. It's just not a comfortable thing to do. I almost hyperventilate when I'm looking for clothing to fit, comfort, and look good. I just don't know.

 

I don't wear makeup daily because I've figured that out and I don't want to look like a clown. But I do use moisturizer daily. My mom never taught me. :D

 

Tell me though, this whole thing about painted toe nails... It seems I'm stressing out my MIL because I don't. What is the deal with this? She gave me money for my birthday for a pedicure. I have done it. It's nice. But it doesn't last like a new book will.

[twoforjoy]

I look tired, and I believe I still do with make-up on. I put the make-up on to make ME feel better.

 

And that's totally fine. At the same time, though, putting on make-up doesn't make all women feel better. And that's fine, too.

 

I always think I don't look tired enough. LOL I can be 39 weeks pregnant or have a 10 day old baby, and I've STILL got people asking me for favors or dropping their kids off at my house. I think maybe I need to put more effort into looking tired so that people will cut me some slack. ;)

[melissel]

I look tired, and I believe I still do with make-up on. I put the make-up on to make ME feel better. I had severe, debilitating insomnia for almost 30 years. Yes, I look tired. Every time I look into the mirror I'm unhappy because I look tired. I had insomnia due to PTSD. Every time I look at my tired face I'm reminded of why I had insomnia for 30 years.

 

Denise, I hope you don't mind, I'm going to spin off a thread about this. It's actually a question that I've wondered about since a post many months ago, but you just reminded me that I've wanted to ask it but never got around to it. (And :grouphug:)

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Shoot, just saw this thread again. Now I have to figure out what to wear that would be appropriate for cleaning house AND looking presentable...

 

June Cleaver showed the way!

 

[mommaduck]

June Cleaver showed the way!

 

 

:lol: love it!

 

Black denim skirt (can't comet in it though), brown cotton top, messy pony loop, icon bracelets on, and the only shoes I can find are my dress sandals (need to find that other leather flop!).

[skueppers]

I ask this question because I often see a woman wearing baggy sweats and an old, ill-fitting tee shirt, and I wonder why she doesn't take a bit more effort for herself. It takes one afternoon of shopping and 15-20 minutes of extra time in the morning. It's difficult to believe most people can't spare that small amount of time.

 

Because it's all about your values. I do not value spending time on my appearance. I think it is more important and valuable for me to spend my time reading a book, playing a board game, spending time with my husband and children, etc. Obviously, your values are different.

 

My mother was a hard-core feminist who emphasized cleanliness and neatness, but not "attractiveness." She viewed the pressure to be "attractive" as degrading to women. I tend to agree with her -- the amount of time and energy women spend on hair, makeup, shopping for clothes, worrying about their weight, and other aspects of "attractiveness" is staggering. Imagine what women could collectively accomplish if all that energy were used for other things!

 

Oh, and I don't wear sweats or dirty clothes with holes in them. I brush my hair (which my husband cuts for me about once a year) every day. I use soap, shampoo, conditioner, toothpaste, and sunscreen. But I never wear makeup, and I buy very basic clothes.

[CAMom]

Because it's all about your values. I do not value spending time on my appearance. I think it is more important and valuable for me to spend my time reading a book, playing a board game, spending time with my husband and children, etc. Obviously, your values are different.

 

 

 

ACK!! This is what I was referring to in my post when I said that we attach moral statements.

 

See, to me, this post is saying that anyone who does spend time on their apperance is not reading, playing with their kids or making their husband a priority. It infers that a woman who does spend time on herself does not "value more important things."

 

So, while the OP may have worded her post in a way that ascribed moral value to keeping up appearance, many of the responses have done the same thing in the opposite direction.

 

One woman may look at another in sweat pants and pony tail and think, "Wow, she's really lazy" (moral judgement) while another may look at someone like me with a scarf, minimal jewelry and my hair colored and brushed and think, "Wow, she doesn't spend any time with her husband or kids if she has time to have a fancy haircut and coordinate her scarf to her sweater!"

 

See, judgement both ways. Why not just give each person the benefit of the doubt?:confused:

[Parrothead]

ACK!! This is what I was referring to in my post when I said that we attach moral statements.

 

See, to me, this post is saying that anyone who does spend time on their apperance is not reading, playing with their kids or making their husband a priority. It infers that a woman who does spend time on herself does not "value more important things."

 

So, while the OP may have worded her post in a way that ascribed moral value to keeping up appearance, many of the responses have done the same thing in the opposite direction.

 

One woman may look at another in sweat pants and pony tail and think, "Wow, she's really lazy" (moral judgement) while another may look at someone like me with a scarf, minimal jewelry and my hair colored and brushed and think, "Wow, she doesn't spend any time with her husband or kids if she has time to have a fancy haircut and coordinate her scarf to her sweater!"

 

See, judgement both ways. Why not just give each person the benefit of the doubt?:confused:

:iagree: Wearing make up and doing the things for myself that I do don't limit my values, priorities nor am I full of vanity. My kid is educated, happy and healthy. We read and play together. We do things together and have a good time. She is in no way neglected. Neither is my dh, my dog, my friends or extended family.

 

the amount of time and energy women spend on hair, makeup, shopping for clothes, worrying about their weight, and other aspects of "attractiveness" is staggering. Imagine what women could collectively accomplish if all that energy were used for other things!

I'd like to know in what way my taking an extra 5-7 minutes in the bathroom in the morning is detrimental to world peace.

 

Imagine what women could collectively accomplish if all their energies were turned toward something besides being judgmental (on both sides) of other women's choices.

[WishboneDawn]

Because it's all about your values. I do not value spending time on my appearance. I think it is more important and valuable for me to spend my time reading a book, playing a board game, spending time with my husband and children, etc. Obviously, your values are different.

 

I'm not sure why spending some time on appearance means you can't do the other things as well. It may simply mean that in addition to doing those other things a person likes to spend time on their appearance. Is your time so taken up with board games and reading that you can't imagine how someone who might enjoy primping themselves could take a bit of time and do that as well? Why the either/or view?

 

My mother was a hard-core feminist who emphasized cleanliness and neatness, but not "attractiveness." She viewed the pressure to be "attractive" as degrading to women. I tend to agree with her -- the amount of time and energy women spend on hair, makeup, shopping for clothes, worrying about their weight, and other aspects of "attractiveness" is staggering. Imagine what women could collectively accomplish if all that energy were used for other things!

 

The pressure to be attractive is one thing. The decision to put time and energy into being attractive is another. It reminds me of a discussion I had a long time ago on a message board far, far away. We were discussing feminism and another poster could not understand how I could claim to be a feminist and yet be a homeschooling, SAHM. After all, isn't that what feminism freed us from? Why continue the wear the shackles?

 

That's NOT what feminism freed us from of course. Feminism freed us from not having a choice in the matter. It freed me to make the choice to be a SAHM without regret. In regards to the pressure to be attractive I think I think the focus is on the wrong thing. It's focusing on the being attractive aspect when the core issue is the judgments made about women in regards to how they look. If feminism is just another way to tell women what they should/should not do or what values they should hold then it's useless to me. If it's about letting women choose their interests and priorities without damaging judgment then we should stop setting up appearance against intellectual pursuits as if the two are mutually exclusive and simply and drop the virtue/vice tags we attach to each.

 

 

Oh, and I don't wear sweats or dirty clothes with holes in them. I brush my hair (which my husband cuts for me about once a year) every day. I use soap, shampoo, conditioner, toothpaste, and sunscreen. But I never wear makeup, and I buy very basic clothes.

 

Good for you. I often wear sweat pants and stained shirts with holes in them. I also like to dress up in nicer clothes, jewelry and apply make up. I'm not sure what either admission is supposed to say about me that my previous words couldn't.

[WishboneDawn]

I'd like to know in what way my taking an extra 5-7 minutes in the bathroom in the morning is detrimental to world peace.

 

Heck, on the odd occasion when we're going out I take a good 45 minutes. I suppose I could be spending that time solving world hunger.

 

It is fine to spend 45 minutes doing something for myself. I'm quite sure feminism isn't asking to to give up martyring myself to societies expectation just to ask me to martyr myself to something else.

 

I thought the whole point was to recognize I'm a competent, independent human being capable of making my own choices for myself.

[twoforjoy]

ACK!! This is what I was referring to in my post when I said that we attach moral statements.

 

See, to me, this post is saying that anyone who does spend time on their apperance is not reading, playing with their kids or making their husband a priority. It infers that a woman who does spend time on herself does not "value more important things."

 

So, while the OP may have worded her post in a way that ascribed moral value to keeping up appearance, many of the responses have done the same thing in the opposite direction.

 

One woman may look at another in sweat pants and pony tail and think, "Wow, she's really lazy" (moral judgement) while another may look at someone like me with a scarf, minimal jewelry and my hair colored and brushed and think, "Wow, she doesn't spend any time with her husband or kids if she has time to have a fancy haircut and coordinate her scarf to her sweater!"

 

See, judgement both ways. Why not just give each person the benefit of the doubt?:confused:

 

But the post that was being responded to basically implied that spending time/money on your appearance beyond the basics is a moral necessity. The poster was just responding to that.

 

That's the sentiment I don't get. Sure, I could spend 10 minutes in the morning putting on make up. I could spare that ten minutes. I could afford the make up. But, why? For me, there's no reason. I'm not particularly interested in decoration, just functionality. I keep my house clean and pretty tidy, but not decorated. I don't do centerpieces or knickknacks or worry about whether my pillows match the rugs. That's just how I approach things.

 

So, I get up, I shower, I brush my teeth, I wash my face, I comb my hair (and may put it up in a ponytail), and I get dressed in something simple (which may just be yoga pants and a t-shirt). And, I'm good to go. I've got everything covered that needs to be covered, and I'm appropriately dressed for any of the things I might reasonably do.

 

What I don't understand is why that would bother another woman, or why she'd look at me and wonder why I didn't put on make-up and blow out my hair. Seriously, what would cause somebody to look at another person and wonder those things? In what way does my not putting on make-up or my wearing a ponytail affect her life?

 

The thing is, while you might, on a thread like this, see some pushback with people saying things like "I don't wear make-up because I have better things to do with my time," you rarely see somebody just express that out of the blue. I've never seen a thread anywhere online where somebody was going, "Oh my gosh, I saw somebody wearing a suit at the grocery store! How dare they!" or "What possesses some women to leave home with make-up on? What is this world coming to?"

 

But, it's very, very common to see people starting threads about how appalled they are that somebody else dare to pick up their kid from school in PJ pants, or go grocery shopping in sweats, or wear crocs to the mall, or go out with a ponytail and no make-up, and wonder what is wrong with these people/bemoan the end of Western civilization as we know it.

 

And I just don't get that. Why do people care so much what other people--in most cases total strangers!--are wearing? Why would somebody give a second thought to another woman they see in a store not wearing make-up, much less feel concerned or upset about it?

 

And, let's not forget the ****ed-if-you-do-****ed-if-you-don't position women are put in. Don't worry about your appearance or put much effort into it, and your "frumpiness" is apparently going to cause concern, dismay, and offense to many other women who are out, and leave them wondering what's wrong with you. But, wear too much make-up or the wrong kind of "nice" clothes, and you're going to have women calling you a trashy tramp and blaming you for tempting their husbands and sons.

Edited August 15, 2011 by twoforjoy

[WishboneDawn]

But, it's very, very common to see people starting threads about how appalled they are that somebody else dare to pick up their kid from school in PJ pants, or go grocery shopping in sweats, or wear crocs to the mall, or go out with a ponytail and no make-up, and wonder what is wrong with these people/bemoan the end of Western civilization as we know it.

 

And I just don't get that. Why do people care so much what other people--in most cases total strangers!--are wearing? Why would somebody give a second thought to another woman they see in a store not wearing make-up, much less feel concerned or upset about it?

 

Because what we wear and how we present ourselves is a form of communication especially in situations when the only form of communication we might have with another person is simply our appearance. We tell people what we think of ourselves and them by the care we put into our appearance. It's not all gender-expectation related.

 

If I show up in PJ pants in a public space the pretty obvious reason is that I couldn't be bothered putting on proper pants. I couldn't be bothered because either I'm not that important or no one else who will see me is that important or both. Of course there are circumstance people can forgive - when pain is an issue as someone else mentioned, the hurried run for medication when a child has a fever, that sort of thing. But to expect you should be able to wear bed clothes and not be burdened by the messages that sends...?

[sagira]

What I don't understand is why that would bother another woman, or why she'd look at me and wonder why I didn't put on make-up and blow out my hair. Seriously, what would cause somebody to look at another person and wonder those things? In what way does my not putting on make-up or my wearing a ponytail affect her life?

 

The thing is, while you might, on a thread like this, see some pushback with people saying things like "I don't wear make-up because I have better things to do with my time," you rarely see somebody just express that out of the blue. I've never seen a thread anywhere online where somebody was going, "Oh my gosh, I saw somebody wearing a suit at the grocery store! How dare they!" or "What possesses some women to leave home with make-up on? What is this world coming to?"

 

But, it's very, very common to see people starting threads about how appalled they are that somebody else dare to pick up their kid from school in PJ pants, or go grocery shopping in sweats, or wear crocs to the mall, or go out with a ponytail and no make-up, and wonder what is wrong with these people/bemoan the end of Western civilization as we know it.

 

And I just don't get that. Why do people care so much what other people--in most cases total strangers!--are wearing? Why would somebody give a second thought to another woman they see in a store not wearing make-up, much less feel concerned or upset about it?

 

And, let's not forget the ****ed-if-you-do-****ed-if-you-don't position women are put in. Don't worry about your appearance or put much effort into it, and your "frumpiness" is apparently going to cause concern, dismay, and offense to many other women who are out, and leave them wondering what's wrong with you. But, wear too much make-up or the wrong kind of "nice" clothes, and you're going to have women calling you a trashy tramp and blaming you for tempting their husbands and sons.

 

:iagree:

 

I'm one of the people who don't particularly care how I look, but in the process tend to be admired anyway. Imagine if you did dress up/brushed your hair/put on make-up all the time! When I do, I get a slew of males after me lol I do once in a while, for fun, when I go out with my hubby. Not often at all. Hubby met me this way - with worn, unsightly red slippers, few showers, hair never brushed or combed. This was the extent of my newfound freedom and college rebellion lol If anything, I've improved. I have children so I put myself together a little bit more for their sakes. Meaning I still spend no time at all on extras, but careful attention to basic grooming. I even brush my hair once in a while. I can't brush it too often, otherwise I'd look extremely bushy haired :tongue_smilie:

 

Comfort is key. Cotton clothes for the most part, ponytail most days as I live in a hot climate. When it's winter my hair is down. This is all I know how to do, basically. Ponytail, no ponytail :lol:

 

Shoes? I have about five pairs now (this includes my sneakers and crocs), but I used to own two years back.

Edited August 15, 2011 by sagira

[CAMom]

But the post that was being responded to basically implied that spending time/money on your appearance beyond the basics is a moral necessity. The poster was just responding to that.

 

 

 

That was basically my point.:confused:

 

While the OP may have attached moral value to her assessments, some of the women offended by that did the exact same thing in return. Two "wrongs" don't make it right.

 

I can certainly respect any reason for putting time into appearance or not ,but we don't do each other any favors to ascribe moral values to them. It's no nicer to say, "Well, my values are better than yours so I don't put in the time" than it is to say, "If you weren't so lazy you would dress up every day." KWIM?

 

Some have said things like they have allergies or their husband prefers them without the fuss. Perfect. No moral inference. But to say that they don't do it because they are better and spend that time and energy into things that really matter? Is that any different from what they are pushing back against?

[skueppers]

Because it's all about your values. I do not value spending time on my appearance. I think it is more important and valuable for me to spend my time reading a book, playing a board game, spending time with my husband and children, etc. Obviously, your values are different.

 

ACK!! This is what I was referring to in my post when I said that we attach moral statements.

 

See, to me, this post is saying that anyone who does spend time on their apperance is not reading, playing with their kids or making their husband a priority. It infers that a woman who does spend time on herself does not "value more important things.

 

I can see how you read it this way, and I apologize for being insufficiently clear. I really wasn't trying to suggest that women who choose to spend time on their appearance don't do these things -- I was trying to give examples of the kinds of things that I, personally, would rather spend my time doing, instead of shopping, putting on makeup, blow-drying my hair, getting my hair cut, shaving my legs, etc.

 

All I meant when I said that my values were obviously different from the original poster's is that she clearly does value putting time and energy into her appearance, and I don't. There was no judgment attached to this statement in my mind, but I can certainly see why it came across that way in what I wrote.

 

In the second section of my post, I was not speaking about the choices individual women make, but rather about societal pressure and its negative effect on women collectively. I don't think that the time any individual woman spends on her appearance is particularly significant in the grand scheme of things. However, when you add it all up -- yes, it's a big deal. If women spend, on average, 15 more minutes per day on their appearance than men, that adds up to over 90 hours per year per woman -- it only takes 22 women's 90 annual hours of "appearance time" to make an entire work year for one person.

 

Of course I'm not suggesting that if women weren't spending their time on their appearance, they would necessarily be spending their time on anything in particular. But I think it's worth considering that, in the absence of pressure to look a certain way, some women probably would spend some of that time doing things that would have positive effects on our society as a whole.

[creekland]

But the post that was being responded to basically implied that spending time/money on your appearance beyond the basics is a moral necessity. The poster was just responding to that.

 

That's the sentiment I don't get. Sure, I could spend 10 minutes in the morning putting on make up. I could spare that ten minutes. I could afford the make up. But, why? For me, there's no reason. I'm not particularly interested in decoration, just functionality. I keep my house clean and pretty tidy, but not decorated. I don't do centerpieces or knickknacks or worry about whether my pillows match the rugs. That's just how I approach things.

 

So, I get up, I shower, I brush my teeth, I wash my face, I comb my hair (and may put it up in a ponytail), and I get dressed in something simple (which may just be yoga pants and a t-shirt). And, I'm good to go. I've got everything covered that needs to be covered, and I'm appropriately dressed for any of the things I might reasonably do.

 

What I don't understand is why that would bother another woman, or why she'd look at me and wonder why I didn't put on make-up and blow out my hair. Seriously, what would cause somebody to look at another person and wonder those things? In what way does my not putting on make-up or my wearing a ponytail affect her life?

 

The thing is, while you might, on a thread like this, see some pushback with people saying things like "I don't wear make-up because I have better things to do with my time," you rarely see somebody just express that out of the blue. I've never seen a thread anywhere online where somebody was going, "Oh my gosh, I saw somebody wearing a suit at the grocery store! How dare they!" or "What possesses some women to leave home with make-up on? What is this world coming to?"

 

But, it's very, very common to see people starting threads about how appalled they are that somebody else dare to pick up their kid from school in PJ pants, or go grocery shopping in sweats, or wear crocs to the mall, or go out with a ponytail and no make-up, and wonder what is wrong with these people/bemoan the end of Western civilization as we know it.

 

And I just don't get that. Why do people care so much what other people--in most cases total strangers!--are wearing? Why would somebody give a second thought to another woman they see in a store not wearing make-up, much less feel concerned or upset about it?

 

And, let's not forget the ****ed-if-you-do-****ed-if-you-don't position women are put in. Don't worry about your appearance or put much effort into it, and your "frumpiness" is apparently going to cause concern, dismay, and offense to many other women who are out, and leave them wondering what's wrong with you. But, wear too much make-up or the wrong kind of "nice" clothes, and you're going to have women calling you a trashy tramp and blaming you for tempting their husbands and sons.

 

:iagree: I'm really glad I read these things after you post. That way my typing can be much shorter! You and I are very similar people when it comes to appearances in both what we do and what we don't notice (or care) about others.

 

Some have suggested it's a form of communication. If so, it's a language I don't speak or understand, nor care to learn. ;)