s/o of s/o Why do some women not put effort into their appearance??

[Daisy]

But what if the person LIKES their cut? Why should they change to please what fashion says, or be called outdated or frumpy? Same w/make up and clothing.

 

This is about imposing personal standards on ppl at large. What one person thinks is fashionable and appropriate, someone else thinks is howling dog, couldn't ever pay me enough to look like that ugly.

 

So true. I don't like most modern fashions. I think they are garish and ugly. I don't like the cookie-cutter hair styles in my town either. All the women look the same. Boring. Why are they all working so hard to look like each other? It's like the Borg mind or something. We will assimilate you.

[Wabi Sabi]

I can't afford more shoes, and I have never once found a pair of shoes (vs. sneakers) that I can wear for more than a minute. (google accessory navicular bone for more info. Where the bone is, is where almost all women's shoes cut across, and it hurts!)

 

 

One word (okay, two): Chaco sandals.

 

I know you said you can't afford any new shoes right now and these aren't cheap (normally around $90) but I've seen them on sierratradingpost.com for around $35. I have the same issue plus exceptionally flat feet and I pretty much live in Chacos.

[vettechmomof2]

I shower and shave my legs/pits. FInger comb my hair and get it trimmed twice a year.

That is about the extent of my care.

I exercise a lot but am still at a weight that unless specifically tailored clothing, nothing fits just right. So I do not concern myself with it. I wear scrubs to work and a Gi(karate outfit) most of the time and then a tank/t-shirt with capris for kickboxing or exercising.

I do not wear makeup because most gives me a headache and I just do not want to waste my time doing that stuff.

Hubby is happy with me being happy so I have no worries about it.

[AndyJoy]

I understand what you're saying, and I agreed earlier on with your point that the recession makes things like make up and hair appointments out of the question for many people.

 

Maybe it's just me, but I didn't read the OP as suggesting people put out more money to obtain these things. She specifically said if one is paying already to have an outdated hair cut, that it costs no more to have a "modern" do. Or, if one is inclined already to purchase make-up, why is it either poorly applied, or not worn. If one is going to buy used clothes at a consignment, why not clothes that fit well versus those that look frumpy and ugly.

 

In other words, it seemed to me she was questioning the motive behind an intentional choice to affect a poor appearance. I don't think she was speaking to those who are constrained by finances or other considerations from taking more care with their personal appearance.

 

I think that's a fine distinction, and is why I postulated that sometimes, it's emotional stress and/or other issues that just rob a person of the energy to care anymore.

 

But wasn't the OP talking about random strangers she sees in public, not people she actually knows? How does she know that these people are spending money on the outdated cut & clothes and have the financial means (even $10 every six months)?

[Joker]

But what if the person LIKES their cut? Why should they change to please what fashion says, or be called outdated or frumpy? Same w/make up and clothing.

 

This is about imposing personal standards on ppl at large. What one person thinks is fashionable and appropriate, someone else thinks is howling dog, couldn't ever pay me enough to look like that ugly.

 

Yes! I don't like the idea that if someone doesn't wear makeup, doesn't have styled hair and doesn't have stylish clothes that they have problems. It's ridiculous. I choose not to care about what society at large thinks is appropriate. I choose not to worry about my hair or spend money on makeup. I choose to buy clothes that are comfortable and not just "in style". It doesn't mean I have issues or don't care anymore. It means I'm different than you and that should be ok.

[joannqn]

I do think appearance is important when you consider how important first impressions tend to be. That said, I would love to spend more time on my appearance and have my excuses why I don't...

 

I haven't been able to find a brand of makeup I can use. I've become too sensitive to chemicals. It makes my eyes feel like I've been starring at a computer screen without a break for many hours (goopy, blurry, eye strain) and gives me a headache.

 

Skin issues and sensitivities limit me to cotton. Other fabrics are so incredibly uncomfortable I don't understand how anyone can wear them.

 

A foot issue limits me to flip flops, some flat sandals, and New Balance walking shoes made on their SL-2 mold. The latter are hard to find. It took me a couple of months of looking before I finally found a pair at a reasonable price during a time when I could afford to buy them.

 

Between the foot issue, the skin/sensitive issues, my size, and my shape it is really hard to find clothes. I wear jeans and solid color cotton t-shirts almost exclusively. Currently, most of my shirts have tiny holes in the tummy even though they aren't that old. Most have stains because, well, because my shirts always have stains after the first wearing.

 

Hair bands, hats, scarves, bracelets, necklaces, earrings, belts, and other accessories all bother me so I never wear more than my watch (when I can deal with it) and wedding ring (under which I have dry peeling skin).

 

I'd love for a stylish shopper to take me out shopping and help me find inexpensive clothing (<$10 tops, <$25 bottoms) made out of cotton that fits, looks good without accessories, and can be worn with old sneakers.

Edited August 12, 2011 by joannqn

[Parrothead]

I understand what you're saying, and I agreed earlier on with your point that the recession makes things like make up and hair appointments out of the question for many people.

 

Maybe it's just me, but I didn't read the OP as suggesting people put out more money to obtain these things. She specifically said if one is paying already to have an outdated hair cut, that it costs no more to have a "modern" do. Or, if one is inclined already to purchase make-up, why is it either poorly applied, or not worn. If one is going to buy used clothes at a consignment, why not clothes that fit well versus those that look frumpy and ugly.

 

In other words, it seemed to me she was questioning the motive behind an intentional choice to affect a poor appearance. I don't think she was speaking to those who are constrained by finances or other considerations from taking more care with their personal appearance.

 

I think that's a fine distinction, and is why I postulated that sometimes, it's emotional stress and/or other issues that just rob a person of the energy to care anymore.

:iagree: This is the way I took the OP.

 

Frumpy and ugly - I had a friend who would buy things and be proud of her purchases. She would get bargains and deals and had a full wardrobe. But what she thought of as cute and stylish, I thought of as butt ugly. I never said anything, but there would be no way I'd be caught dead wearing her clothes. So maybe when one sees what one considers ugly clothes, the wearer may think they are brilliant clothes.

[AndyJoy]

But what if the person LIKES their cut? Why should they change to please what fashion says, or be called outdated or frumpy? Same w/make up and clothing.

 

This is about imposing personal standards on ppl at large. What one person thinks is fashionable and appropriate, someone else thinks is howling dog, couldn't ever pay me enough to look like that ugly.

:iagree:In this day and age, styles come and go (and are revived!) so quickly that I would find it wasteful for me to change my wardrobe this often. Plus, I just LIKE certain outfits I own that others may find outdated. I usually add something new to my wardrobe as styles change because something catches my fancy, but there are definitely times I completely skip a style that's "in" because I think it looks *blech*.

[Aelwydd]

But what if the person LIKES their cut? Why should they change to please what fashion says, or be called outdated or frumpy? Same w/make up and clothing.

 

This is about imposing personal standards on ppl at large. What one person thinks is fashionable and appropriate, someone else thinks is howling dog, couldn't ever pay me enough to look like that ugly.

 

Sure, but you'd be surprised at how some standards of beauty are broadly ahred, even across cultural boundaries. It's a huge area of study for anthropologists and sociologists, and very interesting stuff! I'm particularly fascinated by the studies of how babies react to pictures of "beautiful" and "ugly" people.

 

Of course, styles and fashions change. And of course, appreciation of aesthetics involves a great deal of subjective opinion. Again, can't speak for Lisa here, but I don't know that she's trying to "impose" standards on others anymore than any of us do. She's just asking a question about why and how some people choose to present themselves.

 

FTR, I'm wearing sweat pants and a loose shirt while typing this post. :tongue_smilie:

[Lisa R.]

:iagree: I've recently gained a lot of weight and have barely any clothes that fit me. It's like putting lipstick on a pig for me. I have the weight of the world on my back and what someone else thinks of my appearance is a really freaking LOW priority. :glare:

:grouphug:

 

I don't know what your situation is, but please try and take some time for yourself--whatever that may look like for you. Hang in there.

[8circles]

In the last thread, some were talking about being low maintenance about their appearance. This is different than not putting virtually any effort forth.

 

What I mean is wearing unflattering clothes, an unflattering hair cut, and for some, not wearing any make up. (While some women look great without make up, some looked washed out and tired without it.)

 

I don't think money is the cause. Even if one shops at Goodwill, nicer fitting clothing is the same price as old, baggy sweat pants. Mascara and blush at Target would cost $10 every six months.

 

I also don't think weight is an issue as people of all sizes look attractive when they make an effort.

 

An updated haircut costs as much as an outdated one.

 

I ask this question because I often see a woman wearing baggy sweats and an old, ill-fitting tee shirt, and I wonder why she doesn't take a bit more effort for herself. It takes one afternoon of shopping and 15-20 minutes of extra time in the morning. It's difficult to believe most people can't spare that small amount of time.

 

My dd works with a woman in her 50s. She wears jeans and different colored Gap tee shirts. She pairs them with different scarves and always looks great. Simple, decent quality, inexpensive.

 

Again, I'm not talking about people that favor a low-maintenance look. That's intentional and attractive, too. I'm wondering about those who do not take any time with their clothing, hair, or skin.

 

To answer personally, there are many reasons why someone looking at me may decide that I don't care & haven't put forth effort into my appearance.

 

I have yet to have a haircut which I actually like past the first week despite my attempts to recreate the magic at the salon. I can't afford to get my hair cut every week, I go a few times a year. So, you would probably think my haircut is unflattering most of the time. I might agree even though I've most likely spent at least 10 minutes trying to make it look decent.

 

I am one who often looks washed-out without makeup. I'm naturally very pale & now I'm an exhausted mother of 4. If I look tired it's because I am. Makeup makes me itch except some lipstick which I wear on special occasions. Why is it that you never hear anyone talk about men looking washed-out?

 

I wear clothes that are comfortable. Primarily jeans & T's from Target, not Gap. I don't accessorize except comfy shoes & a functional bag. I think my clothes are appropriate for my life. Sometimes it takes several tries to find a shirt that fits properly - for my own comfort. Flattering? Who knows?

 

Its very possible, likely even, that one would look at me & conclude that I don't make any effort with my apprearance. They would be wrong.

[UnsinkableKristen]

I would say there is a big difference between sacrificing cleanliness and sacrificing vanity.

 

You could always stop buying toilet paper and start using cloth toilet paper. People do it. :D

 

My point is that you can always, ALWAYS give more. You can always sacrifice something. I just fail to see why everyone has to sacrifice the same thing. Maybe the person that spends a lot of time and money on their appearance also spends an equal amount of time and money volunteering. You don't know that they don't.

 

You simply can't equate caring about your appearance with not doing anything for other people.

[Parrothead]

I do think appearance is important when you consider how important first impressions tend to be. That said, I would love to spend more time on my appearance and have my excuses why I don't...

 

I haven't been able to find a brand of makeup I can use. I've become too sensitive to chemicals. It makes my eyes feel like I've been starring at a computer screen without a break for many hours (goopy, blurry, eye strain) and gives me a headache.

 

Skin issues and sensitivities limit me to cotton. Other fabrics are so incredibly uncomfortable I don't understand how anyone can wear them.

 

A foot issue limits me to flip flops, some flat sandals, and New Balance walking shoes made on their SL-2 mold. The latter are hard to find. It took me a couple of months of looking before I finally found a pair at a reasonable price during a time when I could afford to buy them.

 

Between the foot issue, the skin/sensitive issues, my size, and my shape it is really hard to find clothes. I wear jeans and solid color cotton t-shirts almost exclusively. Currently, most of my shirts have tiny holes in the tummy even though they aren't that old. Most have stains because, well, because my shirts always have stains after the first wearing.

 

Hair bands, hats, scarves, bracelets, necklaces, earrings, belts, and other accessories all bother me so I never wear more than my watch (when I can deal with it) and wedding ring (under which I have dry peeling skin).

 

I'd love for a stylish shopper to take me out shopping and help me find inexpensive clothing (<$10 tops, <$25 bottoms) made out of cotton that fits, looks good without accessories, and can be worn with old sneakers.

Your avatar photo makes you look like you have great skin. My best friend has skin like that. Looks like she has the best make up on.

 

I'll take you to Macy's on clearance days. I normally only wear cotton, cotton blends or linen. Which is why I have such a great honking pile of ironing to do tomorrow.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

I'd love for a stylish shopper to take me out shopping and help me find inexpensive clothing (<$10 tops, <$25 bottoms) made out of cotton that fits, looks good without accessories, and can be worn with old sneakers.

 

:iagree:

 

And you'd have to sit with me while I cry through the shoe departments.

 

I can't even find snow boots that do not hurt my feet! :crying: (I wear sneakers with orthotics, and always have. I was barefoot at my father's wedding.)

[FO4UR]

I am furious at these vanity threads, however, because twice per day someone on these boards posts that they have no money for their child's food or shelter! These women are at the library, because they no longer have internet at home, reading about how other homeschooling moms think they need up-to-date haircuts and some makeup. What a loveless age this is sometimes.

 

 

:iagree:

 

I do wear make-up, but what I've got now is what I've got...and when it's gone, it's gone. There is no $10 to replace my powder or mascara. I'll get over it, and ignore any snide looks I get for not keeping up with myself. :tongue_smilie:

[kalanamak]

I'm wondering about those who do not take any time with their clothing, hair, or skin.

 

As long as I am neat and clean I don't give a rat's patoot about wasting time on my looks. I am not trying to sway people, win a contest, or attract a beau. I have always been dumpy and plain, and get by on my education, manners, and ability to be funny on the spot.

 

"They won't remember what you said, they won't remember what you did, but they will remember how you made them feel."

[Aelwydd]

But wasn't the OP talking about random strangers she sees in public, not people she actually knows? How does she know that these people are spending money on the outdated cut & clothes and have the financial means (even $10 every six months)?

 

She doesn't, she's making an assumption, just like all of us do. About myriad persons and behaviors we see in public every day. But, she's also asking questions; ergo, her assumptions may change with new information. Which she is getting. In spades. :lurk5:

[Impish]

Sure, but you'd be surprised at how some standards of beauty are broadly ahred, even across cultural boundaries. It's a huge area of study for anthropologists and sociologists, and very interesting stuff! I'm particularly fascinated by the studies of how babies react to pictures of "beautiful" and "ugly" people.

 

Of course, styles and fashions change. And of course, appreciation of aesthetics involves a great deal of subjective opinion. Again, can't speak for Lisa here, but I don't know that she's trying to "impose" standards on others anymore than any of us do. She's just asking a question about why and how some people choose to present themselves.

 

FTR, I'm wearing sweat pants and a loose shirt while typing this post. :tongue_smilie:

"Outdated' 'fashionable' 'unflattering'

 

All 3 terms are personal opinions being applied to strangers. How is that not imposing her standards on someone else? Its making a judgement on them, isn't it?

[Parrothead]

(I wear sneakers with orthotics, and always have. I was barefoot at my father's wedding.)

Classic bohemian! With the right skirt it could be a great look.

 

 

(Don't be mad. I'm just messing with you.) :D;)

[8circles]

Maybe it's just me, but I didn't read the OP as suggesting people put out more money to obtain these things. She specifically said if one is paying already to have an outdated hair cut, that it costs no more to have a "modern" do. Or, if one is inclined already to purchase make-up, why is it either poorly applied, or not worn. If one is going to buy used clothes at a consignment, why not clothes that fit well versus those that look frumpy and ugly.

Who goes to the salon & says "no, I don't want the 'modern do' I want the frumpy one"? Who goes to the consignment store & says "I'll buy these shirts because they don't fit well. Frumpy & ugly is definitely the look I'm going for. I'll just leave the ones that fit me perfectly here on the rack for the next shopper."?

 

In other words, it seemed to me she was questioning the motive behind an intentional choice to affect a poor appearance. I don't think she was speaking to those who are constrained by finances or other considerations from taking more care with their personal appearance.

Are there really that many people who purposely choose to look frumpy? Who could just as easily choose to look really put-together?

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Classic bohemian! With the right skirt it could be a great look.

 

 

(Don't be mad. I'm just messing with you.) :D;)

 

My step-mother said I wasn't allowed to wear slippers or sneakers, so I didn't! :D

[Parrothead]

My step-mother said I wasn't allowed to wear slippers or sneakers, so I didn't! :D

Good for you.

[Aelwydd]

:iagree: This is the way I took the OP.

 

Frumpy and ugly - I had a friend who would buy things and be proud of her purchases. She would get bargains and deals and had a full wardrobe. But what she thought of as cute and stylish, I thought of as butt ugly. I never said anything, but there would be no way I'd be caught dead wearing her clothes. So maybe when one sees what one considers ugly clothes, the wearer may think they are brilliant clothes.

 

 

Yes, well, your reaction is similar to mine regarding those jean jumper dresses (dh calls them the "baptist burqa").

 

And now, I've probably offended at least 50 posters by saying so. :001_tt2:

[Peela]

Because sometimes we sink pretty low and outer appearance sinks low on the list of priorities. Depression, emotional problems, mental illness, huge stress, overwhelm- many things can make one not want to change out of pajamas or brush one's hair in the morning. I remember feeling like that a lot when my kids were babies and I didnt get enough sleep, especially when my marriage was rocky as well. Life can be hard even when there is still lots to be grateful for, and no matter how much money you have.

 

I do think many women think they don't care what they look like, when on some level they do, but they have sort of given up and said well if I cant look like I want to look I won't try at all. I have felt like that at times.

 

I am low maintenance, rarely wear makeup, don't shave my legs much (a few times over summer, not in winter, but I am blonde), have a very easy maintenance hair style, and i do not follow fashion at all. However, I don't feel I look bad- I am very conscious and deliberate in my wardrobe and my appearance- I just don't follow normal fashions.

 

Flylady taught me the benefit of dressing well each day and making a bit of effort- because it does have an effect on how I feel if I make an effort to dress well for the day, even if I am staying home. However, not everyone has gone through the experiences that I have that made me take that on.

 

YOu know, it just takes all types. I have a friend whose home is always messy and chaotic, but I dont care. A part of me would love to clean and declutter it for her, because it seems to reflect a state of constant overwhelm...but i dont really know, and at least i feel relaxed there. I visit my MIL and her home is spotless and the furniture and carpet are white- we didnt take her grandkids to visit her much- way too stressful. She is another extreme (she always looks immaculate) and really, its not pretty or pleasant.

 

Its not vain to present well, and it can be a strange sort of reverse egoism to deny one's image, and downplay it, in the name of humility, but people are all at where they are at and its not really my business. It's just my business to accept people and love them anyway, as best I can.

[Lisa R.]

She doesn't, she's making an assumption, just like all of us do. About myriad persons and behaviors we see in public every day. But, she's also asking questions; ergo, her assumptions may change with new information. Which she is getting. In spades. :lurk5:

 

:iagree: Really, I was just curious! Since some are talking about being judgmental, I'm surprised at the attitudes towards those that wear make up regularly. I didn't realize that many people equated make up with vanity. Isn't that judgmental?

 

Would you say taking 30 minutes with one's appearance each day= vanity? It doesn't offend me if you feel that way; I'm just surprised at the strong reactions.

Edited August 12, 2011 by Lisa R.

[Veritaserum]

I don't think the OP is talking about keeping up one's appearance as a point of vanity.

 

You know, speaking from experience here, depression and/or a lack of self-confidence are often a culprit behind poor personal maintenance. I think that Dulcimeramy is right that the recession is making it very hard for many men and women to afford clothing and items to look nice. However, it's more than that even. People who are constantly anxious about money, feeling trapped in their situations--that is a wearisome thing.

 

It drains your energy, including your emotional energy, and it gets so hard that you get to a point where you don't have the energy to care anymore. It's not that the person wants to look bad or whatever, but that personal presentation takes more effort than they have to deal with it.

 

I think it might be helpful to consider personal appearance as another marker of good emotional health. In other words, if you feel well, you look well. You feel bad, well...

 

I've found that when I'm feeling stressed or anxious, it actually helps to make that extra effort to look well. Because it seems to have the inverse effect as well, at least for me: if I feel like I look good, then that boosts my confidence, and I find new determination to meet challenges head on. I don't regularly get my hair or nails done, but I do try to dress well (not expensively!!), put on a bit of make-up, and keep my nails in good shape.

 

But, that's me. I don't think that everyone else must feel or operate the same way, for a lot of people, personal appearance is considered a perk, not an essential thing.

 

:iagree: It takes the same amount of physical effort to put on clothes that make me feel good about myself as it takes to put on sloppy clothes. When I wear clothes that don't flatter me, it's usually a reflection of how I'm feeling about myself that day. When I put a tiny bit of extra thought to choose this shirt that brings out the color of my eyes and these pants that are not only comfortable but hug my curves the right way, I have a better day. :)

[joannqn]

:iagree:

 

And you'd have to sit with me while I cry through the shoe departments.

 

I can't even find snow boots that do not hurt my feet! :crying: (I wear sneakers with orthotics, and always have. I was barefoot at my father's wedding.)

 

 

We can commiserate with each other.

[HollyM]

I don't care if anybody wears make up - the thread was posted asking why others don't follow a standard of beauty care that the poster thinks is appropriate.

 

Here is an answer:

 

Some people just don't care about makeup and matching clothes!! It's not laziness, it's not done to offend those that do care, it's not some psychosis.

 

The day I start thinking that someone is mentally ill or lazy because they don't wear what I wear, look how I look or follow the same road as me is the day I will send my child to a public school because there is nothing of value I can teach my child about life.

[Daisy]

:iagree: Really, I was just curious! Since some are talking about being judgmental, I'm surprised at the attitudes towards those that wear make up regularly. I didn't realize that many people equated make up with vanity. Isn't that judgmental?

 

Would you say taking 30 minutes with one's appearance each day= vanity? It doesn't offend me if you feel that way; I'm just surprised at the strong reactions.

 

Vanity - excessive pride in one's appearance, abilities, etc.

 

Someone can be just as prideful about their simple unadorned appearance as another can be about their perfectly made-up one. ;)

 

Funny how that works.

[Aelwydd]

"Outdated' 'fashionable' 'unflattering'

 

All 3 terms are personal opinions being applied to strangers. How is that not imposing her standards on someone else? Its making a judgement on them, isn't it?

 

Look, when she passes a law that states all people must dress according to her ideals, or face the fashionista police, then I will concede she is imposing something.

 

Now judgment? Yes, she's making judgments. Which I'm totally okay with her doing, and so should everyone else here be, because otherwise we'd all be big, freakin' hypocrites, wouldn't we?

 

Your Honor, I'd like to present Exhibit A (out of like 70 bajillion examples): WTM posts about the ability of public schooled children to think and write critically, compared to home schooled children.

What I would not be okay with is her insulting me or other people if we happened to disagree with her. Also, I'd find it disappointing if she seemed unwilling to change or adjust her perceptions based on new knowledge or information she hadn't considered before.

 

But, so far, she's just been asking questions about her personal perceptions, and I don't personally find that to be an imposition.

[Jenny in Florida]

Short answer: I have better things to do with my time and energy.

 

The longer and somewhat more complex answer has to do with my self image and my sense of the futility and waste of devoting resources to what I perceive as a fairly hopeless cause. It took me a lot of years to get truly comfortable in my skin and to quit torturing myself about not looking the way I thought I should. Nowadays, since I know I will never, no matter what I do, be happy with the way I look, I try really hard not to think about it much.

 

I try hard not to be embarassing to my family. I wash and brush my hair and wear clean clothes that more or less fit.

 

But I don't wear make-up. The last few times I tried, I felt ridiculous and uncomfortable.

 

Essentially, my approach allows me to function and be a content person.

 

But it is also true that there are lots of other, more important things to which I'd rather devote my efforts and resources.

 

Edit: I just re-read your original post and had a few other thoughts.

 

So, for example, those Goodwill clothes you mention? That might be a great option if you happen to be an easy size to fit. Otherwise, you can spend hours scouring those racks and find nothing. (Ask me how I know.)

 

That $10 mascara and blush? Not if you refuse to buy products tested on animals. My daughter is in theatre and has to wear make-up for auditions and shows. She also has sensitive skin and coloring outside the range of drugstore brands. Together and separately, we've done a lot of research looking for acceptable products. She has finally settled on one brand that carries the products she needs and does not test on animals. We bought her some foundation two days ago. It cost over $35 for a package smaller than my palm.

 

The last time I had my hair cut in a salon was over a decade ago. Here's what happened: I decided to treat myself and go to the nice salon where my husband got his haircuts. I felt uncomfortable the moment I walked in the door, because every stylist was young and slender and "tragically hip." When I sat down in the chair, the stylist asked me what I wanted. I tried to explain. (I was at that time the mother of two children under the age of five.) I explained that I didn't have the time, energy or interest to do a lot of styling daily and that I needed something easy. She launched into an explanation of how to manage this that included, "After you get out of the shower, just towel off your hair. Then, go have your coffee and do your make-up before you go back and finish drying and styling it."

 

I must have looked at her like she was crazy. Seriously? At that point, I was lucky if I even got to shower. And coffee was off the menu because I was still nursing.

 

The bottom line is that I "could" do what you seem to think I should. I can afford to buy pretty much whatever clothing I want (although that wasn't always true). I can afford to buy the ridiculously expensive make-up that meets my ethical standards. I can spare 15-20 extra minutes to pretty up every day (although that would just about double my morning getting ready time).

 

But there are just so many other things that are more important to me. So, why should I?

 

By the way, my 16-year-old daughter, who does wear make-up and loves clothes and has been known to get on me about being frumpy, says she objects to the idea that women have any obligation to do such superficial things to please others.

Edited August 12, 2011 by Jenny in Florida

[Aelwydd]

:iagree: It takes the same amount of physical effort to put on clothes that make me feel good about myself as it takes to put on sloppy clothes. When I wear clothes that don't flatter me, it's usually a reflection of how I'm feeling about myself that day. When I put a tiny bit of extra thought to choose this shirt that brings out the color of my eyes and these pants that are not only comfortable but hug my curves the right way, I have a better day. :)

 

Laura, I like your point. It totally jives with what I know of you, and you've always struck me as someone who always maintains a sense of personal dignity, even in the most trying circumstances. How you present yourself is tied into that.

[misidawnrn]

#1...I have never been a primping prissy kind of girl

#2...I don't care about the $10 for makeup at target, I have make up but

#3...I have severe eye allergies and even if I feel like putting it on, it's wiped off in 10 minutes because it makes my eyes itch.

#4...Haircuts are expensive...I get about 2 nice ones a year, my hair looks good about 2 months a year...the other 10 months it's in the "growing out" phase until I really get sick of it.

#5...I make good money as a nurse, thank God, but I only work 2 days a week on purpose so I can stay home with my kids the other 5. $80.00 hair cuts are just not budgeted in every 6 weeks.

#6...I DO shop at goodwill...on purpose for a few reasons, to not directly support sweat shops in other countries by buying clothes sold directly to stores from the sweat shops and to give back to my community and because I am cheap! I can spend less and buy more and still get nice things at the goodwill. I dress nice if I have to but when I am trying to balance homework for me, school for DD, a busy toddler, scrubbing toilets and caring for my family, I don't need to have a fancy scarf around my neck or an expensive pair of pants.

#7...my husband loves me if I am dressed to the nines or in my jammies all day.

#8..my idea of beauty and fashion isn't probably that of a Glamour magazine editor.

#9...I am not trying to impress anyone.

[lionfamily1999]

What I mean is wearing unflattering clothes, an unflattering hair cut, and for some, not wearing any make up. (While some women look great without make up, some looked washed out and tired without it.)

 

I don't think money is the cause. Even if one shops at Goodwill, nicer fitting clothing is the same price as old, baggy sweat pants. Mascara and blush at Target would cost $10 every six months.

 

I also don't think weight is an issue as people of all sizes look attractive when they make an effort.

 

An updated haircut costs as much as an outdated one.

 

I ask this question because I often see a woman wearing baggy sweats and an old, ill-fitting tee shirt, and I wonder why she doesn't take a bit more effort for herself. It takes one afternoon of shopping and 15-20 minutes of extra time in the morning. It's difficult to believe most people can't spare that small amount of time.

 

 

Well, the closest Goodwill that is not filled with carp folks donated from their grandparent's attics is 40 miles away. My car gets around 25 to the gallon, so that's just over ten dollars in gas, hoping I don't get stuck in traffic or any stop lights. Ten dollars is dinner, just fyi :D

 

I cut my own hair ;)

 

I rarely put on makeup. If we're actually going out I will, but otherwise... meh, just seems rather pointless. It's not like dh doesn't see me with my morning face on anyway :p and for the rest of the day I'm not exactly out to impress anyone. Thinking on it, I'm more likely to wear a full face after 9pm and never leave the house than to appear outside in makeup at all.

 

I have a few skirts, newly aquired from the local Dollar store and... well, by September I'm pretty sure they'll be useless, because quality is not exactly DS's priority. I have two pairs of clam diggers that are in alright shape, but I've had them for years so they are rather shapeless. The next new pair of pants in this house, though, goes to my older son who's grown a few inches recently.

 

If you don't mind holes I have a great number of shirts. I only have five really nice ones. They aren't really dress shirts, but they aren't t-shirts, and my favorite is only now starting to get holes, but because of the design they're hardly noticable. New shirts will belong to older ds too :lol:

 

Sure, I'm frumpy, but incredibly my dh is okay with this. See, he knows that we have to pay for the kiddos before we pay for ourselves and since I'm okay with his early nineties A for Anarchy t-shirt that is practically see-through and his worn out jeans, he makes allowances for mine. It's funny, because he never really cares how I look to other people and if I have dressed up while he's at work he automatically thinks something is wrong (who had to go to the doctor's?!?!?!).

 

You assume there is no effort, but there is. It just so happens that not everyone can afford newer clothes or haircuts. :shrug: I know it seems crazy when you can afford it to consider that others can't, but hey, we're out here and like a pp mentioned, in this economy our numbers are growing.

Edited August 12, 2011 by lionfamily1999

[Veritaserum]

Laura, I like your point. It totally jives with what I know of you, and you've always struck me as someone who always maintains a sense of personal dignity, even in the most trying circumstances. How you present yourself is tied into that.

 

:001_wub: Thanks for that. :)

[Jenny in Florida]

Do you think people that spend 15-20 minutes on themselves are vain?

 

 

Well, if we look at it as a continuum, those people are certainly more vain than the ones who don't.

[Amy1k]

I don't know. My daughter carpools to cheerleading with a (very sweet) woman who does.not.brush.her.teeth. I don't even know what to make of it and it makes me sad. :(

[AndyJoy]

:iagree: Really, I was just curious! Since some are talking about being judgmental, I'm surprised at the attitudes towards those that wear make up regularly. I didn't realize that many people equated make up with vanity. Isn't that judgmental?

 

Would you say taking 30 minutes with one's appearance each day= vanity? It doesn't offend me if you feel that way; I'm just surprised at the strong reactions.

 

Maybe you should do a poll on make up = vanity or 30 min. on appearance = vanity. I didn't see "many" people making that leap. Crstarlette expressed a strong opinion and others stated that it was vain if you couldn't afford it.

 

I don't think there is a specific time or dollar amount that makes a person vain, but an "excessive" amount (however one defines that!) can be an indication of it.

 

I don't think my lack of make up makes me more humble than those who wear it, but neither do I think it means I am lazy, slovenly, uncaring, depressed, etc. I just have different priorities. (And I don't mean that with a meaningful emphasis on different implying that my priorities are better :D.)

 

I have a good friend from college who puts a lot of thought and a reasonable amount of time into her appearance. I think she looks lovely and stylish, but her regimen is just not for me. I don't find her vain. I know others who are similarly adorned who are incredibly vain or self-conscious. I don't think make up = vanity, but I've certainly known people who were obsessed with it to the point that they were obviously vain and/or low on self-esteem.

[Amy1k]

On the other hand, she might find me to be very vain about my appearance. ;)

[AndyJoy]

Look, when she passes a law that states all people must dress according to her ideals, or face the fashionista police, then I will concede she is imposing something.

 

Now judgment? Yes, she's making judgments. Which I'm totally okay with her doing, and so should everyone else here be, because otherwise we'd all be big, freakin' hypocrites, wouldn't we?

 

Your Honor, I'd like to present Exhibit A (out of like 70 bajillion examples): WTM posts about the ability of public schooled children to think and write critically, compared to home schooled children.

What I would not be okay with is her insulting me or other people if we happened to disagree with her. Also, I'd find it disappointing if she seemed unwilling to change or adjust her perceptions based on new knowledge or information she hadn't considered before.

 

But, so far, she's just been asking questions about her personal perceptions, and I don't personally find that to be an imposition.

:iagree:

[LittleIzumi]

Dude, I am lucky if I get a shower, much less do hair & put on makeup. My baby wants me :001_wub: and dh is working F/T and going to university in the evenings/most weekends. My kids are all little. So my primping time is non-existent.

However, I do wear clothes that (I think) look nice & fit well. I do not own any sweats :lol:. I got a haircut that does not require styling time (over 30 seconds to muss with one product while damp). I am months overdue for a cut, but I will get one when dh's Pell grant comes through. Soonish. Every 6 months is good for a haircut, right? :tongue_smilie:

[homeschoolally]

Wish I was at the computer instead of hubby's phone so I could write more-but am I the only one with the burning question:

 

What would be defined as an 'outdated' hairstyle? Seriously, I don't follow fashion anymore for many of the same reasons stated already-but when I think 'dated' hair I picture Farrah 'wings' or large '80's bang poofs-both of which are hairdos that require hairspray and effort IME-I've sported both back inthe day.

 

Not being snarky, but I honestly want to know how a haircut can be out of style on a woman. Ducktails, John stamos hair on a man-I can see how that might be called 'out of style' by someone who cares about staying current. I'm one who would say that if you like that haircut you should keep it regardless of trends-but please describe how

outdated hair presents in the female variety. I'm truly curious.

Edited August 12, 2011 by homeschoolally

[UnsinkableKristen]

Well, the closest Goodwill that is not filled with carp folks donated from their grandparent's attics is 40 miles away. My car gets around 25 to the gallon, so that's about ten dollars in gas, hoping I don't get stuck in traffic or any stop lights.

 

I cut my own hair ;)

 

I rarely put on makeup. If we're actually going out I will, but otherwise... meh, just seems rather pointless. It's not like dh doesn't see me with my morning face on anyway :p and for the rest of the day I'm not exactly out to impress anyone.

 

I have a few skirts, newly aquired from the local Dollar store and... well, by September I'm pretty sure they'll be useless, because quality is not exactly DS's priority. I have two pairs of clam diggers that are in alright shape, but I've had them for years so they are rather shapeless. The next new pair of pants in this house, though, goes to my older son who's grown a few inches recently.

 

If you don't mind holes I have a great number of shirts. I only have five really nice ones. They aren't really dress shirts, but they aren't t-shirts, and my favorite is only now starting to get holes, but because of the design they're hardly noticable. New shirts will belong to older ds too :lol:

 

Sure, I'm frumpy, but incredibly my dh is okay with this. See, he knows that we have to pay for the kiddos before we pay for ourselves and since I'm okay with his early nineties A for Anarchy t-shirt that is practically see-through and his worn out jeans, he makes allowances for mine.

 

You assume there is no effort, but there is. It just so happens that not everyone can afford newer clothes or haircuts. :shrug: I know it seems crazy when you can afford it to consider that others can't, but hey, we're out here and like a pp mentioned, in this economy our numbers are growing.

 

 

Oh, I hope you didn't take my posts to be critical of others appearances. I really was just responding to the other side of the coin that caring about your appearance automatically makes you vain.

 

I'm so sorry if my words sounded hurtful.

[Imprimis]

Well, I do wear make-up, I have fun with fashion and I enjoy having my hair done, but, I know that everyone has different interests, tastes, and priorities.

 

It wouldn't occur to me to think someone must be ill, depressed, or is "not making an effort on her appearance" just because she's shopping in sweats and not wearing make-up. It honestly wouldn't be on my radar.

 

Make-up, no make-up, boots with shorts ;)----it's all fine by me.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I don't wear make up because I have allergies to many substances. I cannot afford special hypo-allergenic stuff or I could but it would be at the expense of things for my children.

 

I am chronically ill. Get enough energy to put clothes in the washing machine is hard enough. Going clothes shopping is a huge deal energy wise. We have no money in our budget for clothing. I somehow manage to get clothes anyway from thrift stores but that takes a huge amount of time because you have to wade through a lot of dross for the gold.

 

I can afford to get a haircut at a salon every 6 months.

 

I go for clean and neat. It doesn't seem to bother my family to look at me and if anyone else looks at me and is bothered by it, they can look somewhere else.

[Jenny in Florida]

Would you say taking 30 minutes with one's appearance each day= vanity? It doesn't offend me if you feel that way; I'm just surprised at the strong reactions.

 

But it's not just that 30 minutes.

 

It's also either the time spent searching for inexpensive clothing that meets your standards or the money involved in buying better stuff more quickly.

 

It's the money spent on make-up and the time it takes to go somewhere to buy it.

 

It's a lot of things.

 

And, no, I wouldn't say such a person is necessarily vain. What I would say is that this person obviously has priorities that are very different from my own.

[NittanyJen]

So true. I don't like most modern fashions. I think they are garish and ugly. I don't like the cookie-cutter hair styles in my town either. All the women look the same. Boring. Why are they all working so hard to look like each other? It's like the Borg mind or something. We will assimilate you.

 

:iagree:

 

I would rate my mood and self-confidence higher than that of most women I know. I rarely bother with makeup, and other than making sure my clothes are clean and in good condition, I couldn't tell you whether they had ever been in style or not. My husband seems to enjoy my appearance and my friends and children never outwardly cringe when I appear either. What do strangers think? I have never really wasted a moment thinking about it, unless doing something official, such as a job interview, wedding, or funeral, or a special night out.

 

Honestly, although obviously basic hygiene is necessary, I am lucky if I have time to eat in any given morning, or insert my contact lenses, so forget makeup!

 

I have never understood people who concern themselves with the appearances of others-- what is an "in" hairstyle? Shouldn't people style their hair in a way that is attractive and practical for their face, and not for the face of some spoiled thing in Hollywood? I have a permanent neck disability and cannot work much above my shoulders, so washing long hair is out for me, as is blow-drying. So anybody who is offended by short, wash and go hair on a 40-something is likely to be disappointed :). I also cannot wear mascara unless I wish to walk around with my eyes running all day, so anybody who thinks black eyes are a major element of womanhood will just have to live with disappointment on my behalf. It just isn't something I worry about, since my eyes are beautiful the way they were made :).

 

I don't put down people who spend extra time on their appearance-- i rarely take notice, since appearance isn't that important a part of who you are as long as you are clean and appropriate-- but if someone points it out to me, I'm likely to admire someone who has the skills and free time to spend on such things routinely and still tend to important matters like the lawn, working out, the kids, etc. I just use my scraps of free time otherwise (like posting too much!!! LOL).

[Snickerdoodle]

Some of us don't have a clue, don't know how to get a clue, so give up.

Yep.

 

I'm pretty sure my hair is a haystack and I look pretty washed out without makeup. But, whenever I try to wear makeup I feel ridiculous. Truly. I don't know how gals who live in humidity can stand having anything on their skin/face. My hair, well, I have given up. If I had any sense, I'd just shave it all off.

[LibraryLover]

Oh, I hope you didn't take my posts to be critical of others appearances. I really was just responding to the other side of the coin that caring about your appearance automatically makes you vain.

 

I'm so sorry if my words sounded hurtful.

 

I agree!

[LibraryLover]

Yep.

 

I'm pretty sure my hair is a haystack and I look pretty washed out without makeup. But, whenever I try to wear makeup I feel ridiculous. Truly. I don't know how gals who live in humidity can stand having anything on their skin/face. My hair, well, I have given up. If I had any sense, I'd just shave it all off.

 

 

My dh doesn't know fashion from squat. Metro, he ain't. :D He just know what he likes.