My grandma has decided to stop eating.

[Sputterduck]

And she had requested hospice.

 

It's been a week since her last meal and she is only drinking a couple ounces of water a day to take her pain medication.

 

What is this situation going to look like? As in, how long will she hang on? How long will she be conscious and able to talk to people? Will she be in pain? Will hospice meds be enough to make her comfortable?

 

She's been very unhappy for a long time. This move isn't a surprise to anyone. She says she wants to see her husband again and her brother. She's happy with her life so far and now she is very done.

 

How do we support her through this?

 

I have to make a place ready (that doesn't even have a functioning toilet right now) to live in before the end of August. Yikes. And yet I need to be there for my grandma. I am going back to America on Tuesday and since I don't know how this is going to go with her, I don't know how long it'll be until I come back, yet I need to set up care for 2 of the remaining puppies who have mange and folliculitis and somehow I need to fix a house that has no toilet, running water, or electricity until I fix all that and move out in the next 4 weeks. And when I am out of town the kids at my camp don't get fed by our mission group at all. There is nobody to take over the work. I have no idea what to do or how this is going to work.

 

And I'm really scared my grandma is going to be in pain.:(

[Stacia]

:grouphug:

[Impish]

:grouphug:

Ask these questions of the staff at the hospice.

:grouphug:

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

My DH has a co-worker whose dad decided to stop eating. The dad called all his kids to him, so he can see them once again. He had cancer, and was going to die. He chose to be in control. It took two weeks. The whole family was together for two weeks (most of the kids were spread around the world, the dad being in Great Britain, the guy we know in Canada, his brother in Australia..) A family meeting like this they had never had. And the dad wanted to make sure he was a part of it while alive, not dead.

 

:grouphug:

[JudoMom]

:grouphug:

[6packofun]

Does she have any specific physical condition that would qualify her for hospice? If she is already frail, it will not take long before her body systems shut down. Dh's grandmother, who had end stage Alzheimer's and finally a stroke, lasted 8 days afterwards without food or water. She just couldn't get any down and we treated her with pain meds. I truly think that once the mind has prepared for death and the body begins to shut down that there isn't much pain at all. I read up on the subject because even though it was what she wanted, it felt so wrong to let her go without and I worried about what was going on beyond what we could see (which was not much).

 

I would read up on the stages of death if you are going to actually be WITH her during the process. I think just a loving presence, soothing words and giving her "permission" to go--that you'll all be OK without her--are the best things you can offer.

[Teachin'Mine]

:grouphug: No answers, but I'm praying for you and your grandma. :grouphug:

[Aelwydd]

If it has been many days since she stopped eating, eventually the brain will stop trying to prompt hunger pains at all. She will become weaker and weaker, feel really tired, and will lapse into a coma, and pass on.

[Amira]

I am sure the situations are quite different, but when someone close to me decided to do the same thing, it took approximately 10 days to a 2 weeks for her to die. There were some complications at the end, but she choose her time and I think it was a good thing for her.

[Sputterduck]

:grouphug:

Ask these questions of the staff at the hospice.

:grouphug:

 

I will when I get there. I wish I knew how to long to set up care for things here and when to tell the people at the camps I'll be back.

 

I've asked my dad, who is there with her and can talk to the hospice people, but all he will say is we have no idea.

[Robin M]

We went through this when John's mom had a full stem stroke and she could only communicate by blinking. She choose hospice We had a night nurse who took care of his mom during the night so we could sleep and we took care of her during daytime hours. The people who needed to came in and said their goodbyes.

 

If she is going into hospice, they will provide enough morphine to keep her pain free and as her body shuts down will go into a twilight sort of sleep zone until she passes away. It could take from one to two weeks depending on her health.

 

*hugs*

[lakotajm]

:grouphug:It sounds like you are really stressed. I would definitely be talking to the hospice staff and the mission group to find out what kind of help is available for YOU. Afterall, she is done. You are not.

Love,

Lakota

[Sputterduck]

My DH has a co-worker whose dad decided to stop eating. The dad called all his kids to him, so he can see them once again. He had cancer, and was going to die. He chose to be in control. It took two weeks. The whole family was together for two weeks (most of the kids were spread around the world, the dad being in Great Britain, the guy we know in Canada, his brother in Australia..) A family meeting like this they had never had. And the dad wanted to make sure he was a part of it while alive, not dead.

 

:grouphug:

 

We are all gathering to be by her side, but honestly, some family members are not handling this very well. This is the stoic side of the family who show no emotions until they are truly overwhelmed and then don't handle things well. My mom's side gathers and mourns together and celebrates life with a big Irish wake. My dad's side, not so much, unfortunately. Already people are hurt and angry at others who have not acted well. If we could all shut up and do whatever grandma wants, things might go a bit better.

[Aubrey]

As far as the work at home goes: if you can, set it aside.

 

We were renovating our first house when my dad died. It was completely unlivable when we got a notice from the ins co that they would revoke our ins if we didn't move in w/in X days.

 

We moved a mattress to the house for me, & the kids & I stayed there w/out dh, because as bad as it was for us, there was no way he could stay there w/ his breathing problems.

 

No toilet. Trying to start hs'ing for the first time. Completely. over. whelmed.

 

My dad was 49. He should have been fine. In my case, the Lord told me he was about to die & I needed to make time to see him, but you can see how hard that was. I did what I felt I could for about a month, & then...I'm not sure what happened, a stroke, maybe?

 

His mom & my bro called me separately, worried about dad. Grm was working for FEMA during Katrina & had to stay in downtown Dallas to deal w/ all the work. Bro was w/ dad but had to go back to work, so they'd asked me to go stay w/ him. I had 2 dc, & grm's house (where dad was staying after a recent divorce) was awful for kids--she had mice & MEGA bug poison at kid level that they managed to eat whenever we were there. And I was about to go stay there & try to take care of them & my STUBBORN dad (who wasn't making any sense to anyone) by myself indefinitely.

 

The night before I was supposed to go, I just broke down in tears at the utter impossibility of it all. He died in Denton an hour away while I was sitting there in Dallas crying.

 

I don't really have any regrets about how I handled it: we had one car that dh needed for work. The house had to be fixed & lived in. But really...once he died, the house dropped off my radar for a month. It would have been longer, but we were living w/ my ils, & they told another relative he could have our space before we were really planning to move out.

 

I don't know what my point is. There's no toilet now; there will be no toilet when you get home. Do what you need to do to be at peace w/ your grandmother even though whatever you do will be so excruciatingly hard.

 

I guess...I think that during these really hard times the best we can do is put on blinders and look at life moment by moment. The blinders mean you can't think about the toilet now. You probably can't think about the dogs now. And later, you'll have to think about the toilet, and somehow, the sweat and labor of that will help you heal from the loss of your grandmother.

 

I remember the last time I saw my dad. He was impossibly angry, rude, difficult. It was his birthday, & I'd planned to skip it & celebrate later because we had a floor heater we had to pull out of the house & a friend who knew how to help us that day. But I remembered what the Lord had said & decided we'd better head out to Denton after we dealt w/ the floor.

 

Dad had just been diagnosed w/ pre-diabetes, so I made him a sugar-free apple pie. But he & his little sis were born on the same day, & she'd died shortly before. This was his first bday w/out her, & no matter what my grm did for dad, it wasn't right.

 

I couldn't wait to leave, but it looked like dh & my bro were having an important conversation on the front porch, so I stayed inside w/ dad, sort-of holding my breath because I was afraid he was about to start in on me, too.

 

Well, I felt sorry for my grm, so I said something to my dad. Turns out, he was upset that no one was mentioning my aunt, as if she'd never existed. When I told him that OF COURSE we were all thinking of her but didn't want to pain him, he softened up. He cried & was more...well, himself, instead of hiding behind all the rage. I got to tell him how much he meant to me.

 

And if I'd worried about the house that day like logic & practicality dictated, I wouldn't have seen him again. He died less than a week later.

 

:grouphug:

[Joker]

My grandfather told us all matter of factly that he was ready. He lived three more weeks and had in home hospice care. The only thing we saw him eat/drink during those final weeks was soda. His mind was definitely foggy at the end but he was awake off and on the whole time. He never got out of bed the final two weeks. I talked with him on the phone a few days before he passed and while he couldn't really talk at that time he made noises and seemed to understand when I told him it was me. :grouphug:

[BlessedMom]

:grouphug::grouphug:

[Impish]

I will when I get there. I wish I knew how to long to set up care for things here and when to tell the people at the camps I'll be back.

 

I've asked my dad, who is there with her and can talk to the hospice people, but all he will say is we have no idea.

That's the thing, is that its almost impossible to predict.

 

There are certain signs that give you a good idea, in the last 72 hrs or so, but that's not fool proof either.

 

:grouphug:

[Sputterduck]

Does she have any specific physical condition that would qualify her for hospice? If she is already frail, it will not take long before her body systems shut down. Dh's grandmother, who had end stage Alzheimer's and finally a stroke, lasted 8 days afterwards without food or water. She just couldn't get any down and we treated her with pain meds. I truly think that once the mind has prepared for death and the body begins to shut down that there isn't much pain at all. I read up on the subject because even though it was what she wanted, it felt so wrong to let her go without and I worried about what was going on beyond what we could see (which was not much).

 

I would read up on the stages of death if you are going to actually be WITH her during the process. I think just a loving presence, soothing words and giving her "permission" to go--that you'll all be OK without her--are the best things you can offer.

 

8 days I think puts us at tomorrow. That's so fast.

 

She's 80 something and frail. She is confused at night and gets up and falls and hurts herself. She doesn't have a cancer diagnosis, but has spots on x-rays that she refuses to get attended to. She gets sepsis and UTIs here and there and ends up in the ER. She has pretty bad neuropathy that puts her in serious pain all the time unless they give her so many drugs that she isn't really all there. She can no longer feel where her feet are. I don't think she has a fatal diagnosis, but she is done living. I don't know how a person qualifies for hospice, but 3 nurses have already been out there to set things up I'm told.

[justamouse]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[catz]

:grouphug: I'm so sorry. We went through a somewhat similar situation with my grandmother last winter. She lasted 11 days. They say this is not a painful way to die, and hospice was very good about keeping patients comfortable.

[6packofun]

I'm sure many people can hold on much longer. Is she confined to a bed? There are so many factors and I know dh's grandmother was extremely frail, already eating so little by the time the stroke occurred. It felt SO long to us, but really wasn't. She seemed at peace nearly the whole time, like she closed in upon herself with what little realization and acceptance she had left, kwim? Even though your grandma may have made the conscious choice to stop living, sometimes the acceptance comes a little later and I think that's key. The mind is a powerful thing and can help the process along or hinder it, I believe.

[Dobela]

My grandmother lasted 2 weeks in hospice after refusing a feeding tube after a stroke. It was gut wrenching. At first the doctors said she wouldn't last more than 3 days, then 2 more days, and then each day someone would tell her children that they thought this was the day she would die. It was beyond tough for them. For her to enter hospice the doctor had to have her admitted and then write prescriptions for any medications she needed to ease her discomfort.

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[Sputterduck]

As far as the work at home goes: if you can, set it aside.

 

We were renovating our first house when my dad died. It was completely unlivable when we got a notice from the ins co that they would revoke our ins if we didn't move in w/in X days.

 

We moved a mattress to the house for me, & the kids & I stayed there w/out dh, because as bad as it was for us, there was no way he could stay there w/ his breathing problems.

 

No toilet. Trying to start hs'ing for the first time. Completely. over. whelmed.

 

My dad was 49. He should have been fine. In my case, the Lord told me he was about to die & I needed to make time to see him, but you can see how hard that was. I did what I felt I could for about a month, & then...I'm not sure what happened, a stroke, maybe?

 

His mom & my bro called me separately, worried about dad. Grm was working for FEMA during Katrina & had to stay in downtown Dallas to deal w/ all the work. Bro was w/ dad but had to go back to work, so they'd asked me to go stay w/ him. I had 2 dc, & grm's house (where dad was staying after a recent divorce) was awful for kids--she had mice & MEGA bug poison at kid level that they managed to eat whenever we were there. And I was about to go stay there & try to take care of them & my STUBBORN dad (who wasn't making any sense to anyone) by myself indefinitely.

 

The night before I was supposed to go, I just broke down in tears at the utter impossibility of it all. He died in Denton an hour away while I was sitting there in Dallas crying.

 

I don't really have any regrets about how I handled it: we had one car that dh needed for work. The house had to be fixed & lived in. But really...once he died, the house dropped off my radar for a month. It would have been longer, but we were living w/ my ils, & they told another relative he could have our space before we were really planning to move out.

 

I don't know what my point is. There's no toilet now; there will be no toilet when you get home. Do what you need to do to be at peace w/ your grandmother even though whatever you do will be so excruciatingly hard.

 

I guess...I think that during these really hard times the best we can do is put on blinders and look at life moment by moment. The blinders mean you can't think about the toilet now. You probably can't think about the dogs now. And later, you'll have to think about the toilet, and somehow, the sweat and labor of that will help you heal from the loss of your grandmother.

 

I remember the last time I saw my dad. He was impossibly angry, rude, difficult. It was his birthday, & I'd planned to skip it & celebrate later because we had a floor heater we had to pull out of the house & a friend who knew how to help us that day. But I remembered what the Lord had said & decided we'd better head out to Denton after we dealt w/ the floor.

 

Dad had just been diagnosed w/ pre-diabetes, so I made him a sugar-free apple pie. But he & his little sis were born on the same day, & she'd died shortly before. This was his first bday w/out her, & no matter what my grm did for dad, it wasn't right.

 

I couldn't wait to leave, but it looked like dh & my bro were having an important conversation on the front porch, so I stayed inside w/ dad, sort-of holding my breath because I was afraid he was about to start in on me, too.

 

Well, I felt sorry for my grm, so I said something to my dad. Turns out, he was upset that no one was mentioning my aunt, as if she'd never existed. When I told him that OF COURSE we were all thinking of her but didn't want to pain him, he softened up. He cried & was more...well, himself, instead of hiding behind all the rage. I got to tell him how much he meant to me.

 

And if I'd worried about the house that day like logic & practicality dictated, I wouldn't have seen him again. He died less than a week later.

 

:grouphug:

 

You are right. I will deal with the toilet when I am done with all this. I have a toilet but the lines to and from it need to all be ripped out and replaced. They are literally falling to pieces and the water to my place can't be turned on until the plumbing is ripped out and replaced. I keep thinking, "When I get back, after move everything out of my current place in a mad rush to get out before I have to pay rent again where will I potty until I rip out and replace all the plumbing? I have nowhere to potty!"

 

Things will work out. They always somehow do. Thanks for sharing your story. It helps to know that someone else ignored their toilet to be with family when needed.

[roxanne23]

.

Edited January 4, 2023 by roxanne23

[Random]

:grouphug:

 

Safe travels and may your visit be full of love and hope and joy.

[texasmama]

:grouphug: I have quite a bit of experience with loved ones on hospice care. They universally did not suffer. Often, they are given liquid morphine when the request it. When they become nonresponsive, they are given liquid morphine on a schedule or when they make a peep which might indicate pain. Hospice exists to help people die with as little suffering as possible. I encourage you to ask questions of the hospice nurses. Ask to talk to the social worker and/or the chaplain.

 

I respect your grandma's decision, and I hope that she is without pain and suffering until the end.:grouphug:

[Jen in PA]

:grouphug:

[LittleIzumi]

:grouphug::grouphug:

[Slartibartfast]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[Rosie_0801]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[laundrycrisis]

I wish you, your grandma, and your entire family peace. :grouphug:

[Liz CA]

Aww Sputterduck, I am sorry you are going through this!

I am a firm believer in (sane) people being able to make these kind of decisions.

There are a lot of palliative measures (meds & other) that can be utilized to make someone's last days more comfortable.

It will tax the family more than her as it seems she has made a decision about her life.

 

Are you working with a mission board? Seems like they should be able to help you with this and arrange for help so

the children you take care of are not neglected. Someone with "missions" experience may be able to suggest

something more useful.

Edited August 1, 2011 by Liz CA

[lovelaughs_times_three]

:grouphug::grouphug: So sorry for you and your family. I am sad with/for you...

[helena]

:grouphug::grouphug:

[jelbe5]

:grouphug:

 

My beloved Grandma passed away in hospice. She has several strokes and stopped eating. I think she was there for two weeks. She could not speak but a few days before she died My oldest (2 at the time) and I had a wonderful visit. It was the last time she was awake and she was able to sit up and I could tell from her eyes how happy she was to see Evelyn, who was her first great-grandchild. After our visit she slipped into sleep and did not wake up again. She seemed at peace and I felt her passing, while hard on us, was very peaceful and dignified.

[Sputterduck]

Aww Sputterduck, I am sorry you are going through this!

I am a firm believer in (sane) people being able to make these kind of decisions.

There are a lot of palliative measures (meds & other) that can be utilized to make someone's last days more comfortable.

It will tax the family more than her as it seems she has made a decision about her life.

 

Are you working with a mission board? Seems like they should be able to help you with this and arrange for help so

the children you take care of are not neglected. Someone with "missions" experience may be able to suggest

something more useful.

 

The problem is that half of the missionaries in our area are now gone. Of the two sets still here besides me, one no longer has a working vehicle for the moment, and the other is going through personal problems. Our closest affiliated people are 10 hours away and busy with their own ministry.

[Denisemomof4]

I placed my mother on Hospice care and she died peacefully in my home 3 weeks later. Hospice will guide you all the way but if you have any doubts, questions, or concerns, come HERE. Hospice did a fantastic job (my dad died without Hospice and I feel so badly that he suffered needlessly, but I didn't know a better way at the time, and he likely would have refused Hospice anyway) but the nurses here helped me to understand that my mom was being under medicated. Once she was on proper medications she remained unconscious and apparently pain free. I had a friend die of cancer and he became highly agitated at times and I believe this was due to the pain. He also was on Hospice but had cancer in every area of his body including his brain.

 

Your grandmother's body is likely shutting down, just as my mother's was. They were tired and worn out and ready to leave this life. One of the final signs is to stop eating, and then they will stop drinking entirely. You can keep their mouth moist by swabbing it with a wet sponge on a stick (Hospice will provide these) and make sure you have vaseline or something to put on her lips.

 

My mother was exceptionally rare in that she lasted 3 weeks. I forget when she gave up the few drops of water but she was on a comatose state for about two weeks when she died. I don't believe she was ever in pain.

 

I'm so sorry you're facing this and also having to find care for your kids and dogs. I hope people will step up to the plate to help with their care while you tend to your grandmother. Bringing my mom home to live with us, and eventually die 7 months later, was the hardest thing I've ever done, but by far the biggest blessing of my life. She had such a wonderful end of life and peaceful death.

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

We are here for you if you need us! And because i've travelled this road, if you need to contact me, please feel free to do so in a PM. I can call/email you if you'd like. Also, there are wonderful nurses here who will help. I can't thank the Hive enough for being there for me while I dealt with this with my own mother.

[Denisemomof4]

You are right. I will deal with the toilet when I am done with all this. I have a toilet but the lines to and from it need to all be ripped out and replaced. They are literally falling to pieces and the water to my place can't be turned on until the plumbing is ripped out and replaced. I keep thinking, "When I get back, after move everything out of my current place in a mad rush to get out before I have to pay rent again where will I potty until I rip out and replace all the plumbing? I have nowhere to potty!"

 

Things will work out. They always somehow do. Thanks for sharing your story. It helps to know that someone else ignored their toilet to be with family when needed.

 

oh my goodness, I don't think you'll have time to fix the toilet before going to your grandmother! Am I understanding that that's what you want to do first?

 

Your situation is difficult with the kids and dogs, let alone the plumbing. I'm so sorry you have so much to deal with!!!:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[Nakia]

I'm so sorry to hear that. My thoughts are with your family during this time. :grouphug:

[jenL]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[Tammyla]

:grouphug:Sputterduck:grouphug: I'm so sorry you're facing this.

 

 

We just went through palliative care and hospice with fil; it was heart wrenching. Once he stopped eating and his diabetes and bp meds were stopped, he lasted four days; he was deeply medicated and not awake at all. He had been in the hospital for 28 days. The doctors all had different estimates of when and how long it would take.

 

Again, I'm very sorry.:grouphug:

[LibraryLover]

:grouphug:

Edited August 3, 2011 by LibraryLover

[Denisemomof4]

one more thing that's very important for you to know. Sometimes a loved one can't stand to see their family member not eating and drinking, and out of the best of intentions, they will try to force fluids or food. This is the worst thing anyone could do. Once the body starts the process of shutting down, adding food/water above what the person wants actually causes undue suffering. It makes for a painful death. Hospice told me this. So no food/water is ok. It's just a part of the process, one nobody can stop.:grouphug:

[QuirkyKapers]

:grouphug: I'm sorry. This is so hard. I know my dad told me my mom had been thinking and talking a lot about heaven. Two weeks later she went into the hosptial with sepsis and five days later was gone. It stinks....:grouphug: