Saujana Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Interesting. What do you think of this? http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/07/how-to-land-your-kid-in-therapy/8555/1/ Warning, foul language in the first paragraph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxMom Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 I feel so vindicated. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renee in NC Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 (edited) So, instead of psychologically damaging my children I am helping them to grow up to be mentally healthier! :party: I am going to print the article to show to my oldest son who I have been having these types of conversations with. I tell him, "Hon, you may not be happy now when all your friends have no responsibilities and no autonomy, but it will be so much easier on you when you graduate college having already grown up and they are trying to start careers and grow up at the same time!" :tongue_smilie: ETA: My favorite quote from the article: But today, Twenge says, “we treat our kids like adults when they’re children, and we infantilize them when they’re 18 years old.” That is SOOOOO true. This is what my ds is struggling with - I expect him to act like an adult and his friends parents are still letting them be (and treating them like) small children. Edited July 10, 2011 by Renee in FL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommyfaithe Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Phew!! I feel better already! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KellieMI Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Thanks for posting this. One to definitely print out and share:001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 I always I would have been happier if I'd had the crayola 64 box and not the 8 box my mom got me. I guess I was wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Florida Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 I guess I'm basically just stunned that anyone actually needs to be told these things? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassy Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 I could relate to the bit about the sports awards. DS6 used to hunt worms during soccer practice, not pick daisies. His very down-to-earth soccer coach presented him with a certificate for being 'Best Worm Finder' at the end of last year's season :tongue_smilie:. Overall this piece articulated many of my feelings over the years with regard to child-rearing. I've always been very independent-minded and believe in doing what I think is right/what my instincts tell me, rather than what is most politically correct at the time. I do know people who seem far more interested in doing what they think will make them 'popular' in their kids' eyes, rather than what is in their kids' best interests. I'm also very familiar with those mothers whose ambitions for their children seem overwhelmingly tied to their own 'issues', rather than concern for the children themselves. Cassy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Florida Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 I could relate to the bit about the sports awards. DS6 used to hunt worms during soccer practice, not pick daisies. His very down-to-earth soccer coach presented him with a certificate for being 'Best Worm Finder' at the end of last year's season. Oh, the whole non-competitive thing used to make my kids furious. My daughter, in particular, would work really hard to be good at things, only to discover that even the kids who couldn't be bothered to try got the same awards. We've always tried to be honest with our kids. We may praise for effort, but we're very clear that it's the hard work we're praising, not the result. My kids know that, if I tell them something they do or make is great, I mean it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 I guess I'm basically just stunned that anyone actually needs to be told these things? People do need to be told! Play any computer game for kids (anything from Pbskids, for example) and every time you get something right, out comes the confetti and trumpets, 'Good job!' 'great!' 'Excellent work!' at every step. I make fun of Super Why all the time. Super job, super you! I know people in real life who think I am mean because I don't tell my kids good job or the like when they eat. My view is, the reward for eating is not being hungry any more. If my kids needed a cheerleader to tell them that, I'd be seriously disappointed in them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxMom Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 I guess I'm basically just stunned that anyone actually needs to be told these things? I would be, too, except I seem to be surrounded by people who think a toddler biting another kid is an opening to have a five minute, sing-songy discussion with said toddler, affirming his feelings, blah, blah, blah... And, yes, by 5-ish, the rest of us stifle discussions of our "feelings" regarding their children's "feelings" of entitlement and enormous self worth. :glare: I don't think my kids have self-esteem issues, but they find satisfaction in the payoff of their best effort (mostly), not because everything they do is the best.thing.ever. And they seem to have the empathy the simpering parents are trying to model by teaching their children how to justify poor behavior by being way over in-touch with their own feelings. Of course, these are the same parents that, when asked to please stop giving you a raft of carp because you are not (and have stated such) on board with their agenda (not their parenting, other unrelated things), they immediately demand an apology because you have hurt their feelings, then lash out because you are clearly evil and out to persecute them... :confused: But, really, I'm not at all bitter. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renee in NC Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Oh, the whole non-competitive thing used to make my kids furious. My daughter, in particular, would work really hard to be good at things, only to discover that even the kids who couldn't be bothered to try got the same awards. We've always tried to be honest with our kids. We may praise for effort, but we're very clear that it's the hard work we're praising, not the result. My kids know that, if I tell them something they do or make is great, I mean it. I, too, applaud effort more than results here because I have dc who may not ever be good at things, but the amount of effort they put into it is amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 (edited) :bigear: "That was scary for a second, but I'm ok! If something unpleasant happens, I can get through it." Yes! Edited July 15, 2011 by LibraryLover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PollyOR Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 This is a very good article! I have an adult child and yeah, I can see some instances where I went wrong and how my dd is suffering for it now. The article was a kick in the behind to stay strong with my youngers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PollyOR Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 The article was also discussed in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LidiyaDawn Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 I could relate to the bit about the sports awards. DS6 used to hunt worms during soccer practice, not pick daisies. His very down-to-earth soccer coach presented him with a certificate for being 'Best Worm Finder' at the end of last year's season :tongue_smilie:. Aw that's cute! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 I guess I'm basically just stunned that anyone actually needs to be told these things? :iagree:I've been saying what this article is saying for well over a decade. I've always found the protecting kids from failure to be a ridiculous concept. Better for kids to learn to cope with disappointment and failure as children than to first experience it as adults and not have a clue how to manage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFwife Claire Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Hmmmm . . . once again, it seems like the Duggars are on the right track . . . :D :auto: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovelaughs_times_three Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 I kind of go both ways on this article. On one hand it makes me feel like "YES! I KNEW I was doing this or that right!" and then another paragraph makes me lower my eyes in embarrasment (as if anyone is watching! :D) and think "Oops! I do run over to my toddler (when I had one) when they got hurt to comfort them quickly!" I didn't like to see my babies cry. And I think that while homeschooling enables me to do a lot of things "right" (according to this article), there are other things about this article that almost scream against my choice to homeschool. Whether it is my intention or not, my kids face a lot less hardships in their life because we homeschool. No, not ALL hardships, but a lot less. I don't give tests very often (not because I'm against tests, simply because a lot of the curriculum I love to use does not include tests). They don't have the competition academically that they would face in ps. They may run across mean kids from time to time, but not nearly with as much frequency as they would in ps. I am also a very encouraging parent that points out to my children their gifts and strengths. I think the overall feeling I get from the article is ----- I can't win. It seems that each new generation has the "answer" on how to raise their children based on the mistakes their parents made. This generation is responding to what they percieved as the mistakes of their parents or grandparents. But now, we are saying that the way they USED to do it is the right way. So while I take some very good advice from this article. While I find it very enlightening and encouraging to read. While I decide to keep doing some things and start doing other things because of what I have read. I ultimately do this... "God, please help me raise these children. Cover my mistakes. Please help me, somehow, instinctually find the answers they need. Most of all, I pray that ultimately YOU will be their father/parent. That you will make sure to fill the holes I miss. That you will be sure they end up experiencing what they need to experience. Thank you that you love them even more than I do, and that I can trust You." I don't know what I do if I thought it was all up to me. I am definitely not up to the task, that is for sure! ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxMom Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Hmmmm . . . once again, it seems like the Duggars are on the right track . . . :D :auto: Ya know, I think you might be right. I sort of laugh at the Mommy Dearest to June Cleaver spectrum. If you actually watch Leave It to Beaver, the kids have pretty high expectations and, while the parents don't scream or beat them with hangers, they don't get away with rudeness/lying/bullying, aren't coddled, are redirected to put others before themselves, and so on. Gee, maybe we should stop poking fun and start taking notes. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBM Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Madeline Levine discusses similar issues in her book The Price of Privilege: How Parental Pressure and Material Advantage Are Creating a Generation of Disconnected and Unhappy Kids. What I also like about it is that she recognizes that most parents in those situations are well-meaning but misguided. It's an interesting read for those who'd like something a little meatier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang!Zoom! Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Two lines from the article I saved: Kids also need exposure to discomfort, failure, and struggle. Kids who always have problems solved for them believe that they don’t know how to solve problems. And they’re right—they don’t. I also wondered if being involved in community service might be something that was/is missing from these adult lives. ( The ability to give back, not just receive.) The lives illustrated sound very lonely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizabeth Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Self esteem and self respect are entirely different things. The former is bs and the latter is hard won but worth the struggle. Self respect is not something that can be bestowed upon you from another by virtue of falsely convincing Johnny or Susie that they are able to do anything because they are just so dam* special. Amen to this author. Thank you for posting. Parents that blame poor" self esteem" for failure, misbehaviour and any other deficits are sadly creating sociopathic individuals with no conscience, sense of shame, and turning out spineless jellyfish that the rest of us should not have to contend with. Tiger Mom does not hold a candle to this old broad. BTW my daughter is hard working, joyful and ready to take on the world. Because she has an authentic and realistic view of her strengths and weaknesses and lives her life accordingly. Reality only bites when you are told your whole life that you are the center of the universe and that mediocrity is fine, just enjoy yourself, have fun and do not worry about actually being good at something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfunnybunch Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 I posted the article on my Facebook page a few days ago. This quote really resonated with me: " 'Happiness as a byproduct of living your life is a great thing...But happiness as a goal is a recipe for disaster.'...Could it be that by protecting our kids from unhappiness as children, we’re depriving them of happiness as adults?" I see the results of this in young adults around me. They have been implicitly (and sometimes explicitly) taught that they are supposed to be happy and fulfilled. When they grow up and happiness and fulfillment aren't immediate and automatic, they feel lost. I am surrounded by families who work really hard to make sure that their children are always "successful" and don't have to encounter unhappiness. We've gotten so caught up in boosting self-esteem that it's become disconnected from accomplishment or goals or how we live our lives. We're just supposed to feel good about ourselves all the time. *sigh* I tell my children often: "This is what we need to do. You can be happy doing it, or not. It's your choice. In the end, you'll have accomplished something, and that's the goal." I hope to teach and model that peace and contentment come from within. Cat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Self esteem and self respect are entirely different things. The former is bs and the latter is hard won but worth the struggle. Self respect is not something that can be bestowed upon you from another by virtue of falsely convincing Johnny or Susie that they are able to do anything because they are just so dam* special. Amen to this author. Thank you for posting. Parents that blame poor" self esteem" for failure, misbehaviour and any other deficits are sadly creating sociopathic individuals with no conscience, sense of shame, and turning out spineless jellyfish that the rest of us should not have to contend with. Tiger Mom does not hold a candle to this old broad. BTW my daughter is hard working, joyful and ready to take on the world. Because she has an authentic and realistic view of her strengths and weaknesses and lives her life accordingly. Reality only bites when you are told your whole life that you are the center of the universe and that mediocrity is fine, just enjoy yourself, have fun and do not worry about actually being good at something. :hurray: THANK YOU for articulating clearly what's been bugging me for years over the self-esteem movement in schools. I had arguments in my education classes with my professors about this. Self esteem & self respect are different. Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mothersweets Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Great article, thanks for posting it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 I think there's also a difference between moment-by-moment happiness and happiness/fulfilment with your life. I might be more blissfilled in one second intervals while eating chocolate, compared to spinach, but I actually do like spinach, and when I eat my vegetables I feel much better in an hour, and ultimately different diets translate into different results. Similarly if you just want to pursue fun stuff, you are unlikely to actually get to a fun destination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saujana Posted July 10, 2011 Author Share Posted July 10, 2011 You all will love this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Aru0tCBCRQ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PollyOR Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 You all will love this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Aru0tCBCRQ LOL!:lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovelaughs_times_three Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 And I think that while homeschooling enables me to do a lot of things "right" (according to this article), there are other things about this article that almost scream against my choice to homeschool. Whether it is my intention or not, my kids face a lot less hardships in their life because we homeschool. No, not ALL hardships, but a lot less. I don't give tests very often (not because I'm against tests, simply because a lot of the curriculum I love to use does not include tests). They don't have the competition academically that they would face in ps. They may run across mean kids from time to time, but not nearly with as much frequency as they would in ps. I am also a very encouraging parent that points out to my children their gifts and strengths. Ok, kind of weird! I'm quoting myself! :tongue_smilie: But I really wanted to hear what your reaction was to this part of my post. Do you think this may be a disadvantage of homeschooling? All :bigear:s to your opinions on this! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Ok, kind of weird! I'm quoting myself! :tongue_smilie: But I really wanted to hear what your reaction was to this part of my post. Do you think this may be a disadvantage of homeschooling? All :bigear:s to your opinions on this! :D No I don't. One reason I'm homeschooling is to keep the level of hardships my kids have to deal with on the lighter side. Hardships you can deal with make you stronger. Relentless hardships you can't deal with, make you weaker. I have heard people describe themselves as stronger due to enduring school bullying and such things, but I don't see a strong person. I see a person who has shut down parts of their personality. I see people who behave like subordinates towards people they aren't working for. I see people with lower opinions of their abilities than they ought to have. I see people who don't know how to make friends. Etc. However, if we think our kids would benefit from more academic competition or from testing, we can seek out positive places where those things are available. Think of team sports. Team A has a strict but positive coach. Team B has a strict coach who calls the kids pansies. The kids of team A will grow from Positive Coach's constructive criticism, kids under the 'care' of Coach B might shrink or move into bravado mode. Any who are able to excel are doing it at the expense of some part of themselves. Rosie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommymilkies Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Well said, Rosie. I agree with most of the article, but I will say it reminded me a bit of the ole "life was so much better when I was young" nostalgia most generations have. I don't know anybody growing up who was raised as protected as this article describes (class divide?), but I don't know very many happy people. So obviously what the article is suggesting we do is not a one way ticket to happiness and functioning as adults. Does that make sense? It's so hard to get clear thoughts through when I have to use my itouch. Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renee in NC Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 And I think that while homeschooling enables me to do a lot of things "right" (according to this article), there are other things about this article that almost scream against my choice to homeschool. Whether it is my intention or not, my kids face a lot less hardships in their life because we homeschool. No, not ALL hardships, but a lot less. I don't give tests very often (not because I'm against tests, simply because a lot of the curriculum I love to use does not include tests). They don't have the competition academically that they would face in ps. They may run across mean kids from time to time, but not nearly with as much frequency as they would in ps. I am also a very encouraging parent that points out to my children their gifts and strengths. I think that in homeschooling there is a fine balance between expecting too much and doing too much. My goal is not to make things easy on them, but I have done that in the past with one of my dc in particular. You have to be careful not to shelter them from the misfortune in the world (theirs and other people's) but that doesn't mean that hs students are automatically disadvantaged. There are pros and cons to homeschooling and you have to determine which side outweighs the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoundAbout Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Ok, kind of weird! I'm quoting myself! :tongue_smilie: But I really wanted to hear what your reaction was to this part of my post. Do you think this may be a disadvantage of homeschooling? All :bigear:s to your opinions on this! :D School is a very artificial environment and I think many of the hardships there are not at all similar to the kind of hardships faced in adulthood. I'm thinking of bullying in particular. Even if they are lessons worth learning, I think they can often be learned better when one has some maturity under one's belt and a better sense of self. The things that I got teased for age 8 wouldn't have bothered me at 18. The things that bothered me at 18 would make me laugh now in my 30's and it has nothing to do with exposure, but just knowing who I am and having a lot of real life experience and maturity. As for academic challenge - I think test taking is a valuable skill for sure but education should not be a competitive sport. One of the things I love about homeschooling is the chance to teach my son to learn for learning's sake. I was a straight A student, and loved learning, but I often sacrificed deep understanding for a good grade in the classroom. That's not the kind of "challenge" I want to encourage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyWifeandMommy Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 My daughter, in particular, would work really hard to be good at things, only to discover that even the kids who couldn't be bothered to try got the same awards. I can relate to this one where we live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peela Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 I think homeschooling in and of itself could create over protection from the rigours of life...but it doesn't have to. It can help up tailor a program and a lifetstyle for each child that helps them grow backbone and foster their strengths. Keeping them away from all difficulties I would agree might create a greenhouse effect- when they get out in the "real world" it might be tough. The term homeschooling can be a misnomer- it doesn't mean we spend all day every day at home, usually. I know we didnt- there was plenty of having to deal with other people. My kids are now teens, no longer homeschooling, and both in institutionalised education. It was a little tough for both at first but they have adapted and are thriving. I think, sure, there are parents who neglect and abuse their kids and their are parents who over protect their kids and do everything for them. Don't most of us aim intelligently for something in the middle range- care but not over protect- give but also empower ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamapjama Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 No I don't. One reason I'm homeschooling is to keep the level of hardships my kids have to deal with on the lighter side. Hardships you can deal with make you stronger. Relentless hardships you can't deal with, make you weaker. I have heard people describe themselves as stronger due to enduring school bullying and such things, but I don't see a strong person. I see a person who has shut down parts of their personality. I see people who behave like subordinates towards people they aren't working for. I see people with lower opinions of their abilities than they ought to have. I see people who don't know how to make friends. Etc. However, if we think our kids would benefit from more academic competition or from testing, we can seek out positive places where those things are available. Think of team sports. Team A has a strict but positive coach. Team B has a strict coach who calls the kids pansies. The kids of team A will grow from Positive Coach's constructive criticism, kids under the 'care' of Coach B might shrink or move into bravado mode. Any who are able to excel are doing it at the expense of some part of themselves. Rosie :iagree: Exactly. My children have their whole lives ahead of them to deal with the good, bad and the ugly. I want to help provide them with the skills and the strength to enjoy the good, make the best of the bad, and deal positively with the ugly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxMom Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 No I don't. One reason I'm homeschooling is to keep the level of hardships my kids have to deal with on the lighter side. Hardships you can deal with make you stronger. Relentless hardships you can't deal with, make you weaker. I have heard people describe themselves as stronger due to enduring school bullying and such things, but I don't see a strong person. I see a person who has shut down parts of their personality. I see people who behave like subordinates towards people they aren't working for. I see people with lower opinions of their abilities than they ought to have. I see people who don't know how to make friends. Etc. However, if we think our kids would benefit from more academic competition or from testing, we can seek out positive places where those things are available. Think of team sports. Team A has a strict but positive coach. Team B has a strict coach who calls the kids pansies. The kids of team A will grow from Positive Coach's constructive criticism, kids under the 'care' of Coach B might shrink or move into bravado mode. Any who are able to excel are doing it at the expense of some part of themselves. Rosie I agree (shocking, I know). In the homeschooling context that means, to us at least, that our children do not categorically succeed or fail. Rather, when they excel, we point that out but also up the challenge. When they fail, we point that out, and then help them form a plan for doing better. In a classroom, there is less opportunity for the teacher to raise the expectation based on the ability of a student (or even the class), or constructively critique each student on their weaker points. I don't see how excelling or failing in a vacuum can produce good results. That transfers to the social aspects, as well. If, by whatever arbitrary rules define such statuses, you're labeled popular, you are ingrained with a certain level of entitlement, from your peers, teachers, coaches, parents... If, on the other hand, you find yourself deemed unpopular, well, there's really no amount of work you can do to scrape that off. Either way, the social attitude toward you suggests this is an integral part of your person. It's easy to see where the adults on either side of that either find themselves feeling empty or depressed. However... I think, if you're inclined to sheltering or helicopter parenting, homeschooling may further or not challenge that, unless you are conscious of what you're doing and want to change that dynamic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 No I don't. One reason I'm homeschooling is to keep the level of hardships my kids have to deal with on the lighter side. Hardships you can deal with make you stronger. Relentless hardships you can't deal with, make you weaker. I have heard people describe themselves as stronger due to enduring school bullying and such things, but I don't see a strong person. I see a person who has shut down parts of their personality. I see people who behave like subordinates towards people they aren't working for. I see people with lower opinions of their abilities than they ought to have. I see people who don't know how to make friends. Etc. Rosie This is a great point. Kids need challenges and hardships absolutely. But I can say from personal experience a poor school fit and bullying will not necessarily make for a well adjusted adult. I much prefer my kids to have challenges I can control. I think my kids are challenged MUCH more than their peers and some areas and less in others. Hopefully, it'll balance out! :D And I will also say, I'm not totally convinced on the original article. It's not exactly a scientific study and I was personally in denial about my own child hood for a while. I totally agree many parents are too soft on their kids these days but I'm not convinced it will guarantee your kids will need therapy any more than any other particular parenting style. Different kids are ideally served by different parents IMHO. Not every kid will be able to respond well to every disciplinary style, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garga Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 I kind of go both ways on this article. On one hand it makes me feel like "YES! I KNEW I was doing this or that right!" and then another paragraph makes me lower my eyes in embarrasment (as if anyone is watching! :D) and think "Oops! I do run over to my toddler (when I had one) when they got hurt to comfort them quickly!" I didn't like to see my babies cry. And I think that while homeschooling enables me to do a lot of things "right" (according to this article), there are other things about this article that almost scream against my choice to homeschool. Whether it is my intention or not, my kids face a lot less hardships in their life because we homeschool. No, not ALL hardships, but a lot less. I don't give tests very often (not because I'm against tests, simply because a lot of the curriculum I love to use does not include tests). They don't have the competition academically that they would face in ps. They may run across mean kids from time to time, but not nearly with as much frequency as they would in ps. I am also a very encouraging parent that points out to my children their gifts and strengths. I think the overall feeling I get from the article is ----- I can't win. It seems that each new generation has the "answer" on how to raise their children based on the mistakes their parents made. This generation is responding to what they percieved as the mistakes of their parents or grandparents. But now, we are saying that the way they USED to do it is the right way. So while I take some very good advice from this article. While I find it very enlightening and encouraging to read. While I decide to keep doing some things and start doing other things because of what I have read. I ultimately do this... "God, please help me raise these children. Cover my mistakes. Please help me, somehow, instinctually find the answers they need. Most of all, I pray that ultimately YOU will be their father/parent. That you will make sure to fill the holes I miss. That you will be sure they end up experiencing what they need to experience. Thank you that you love them even more than I do, and that I can trust You." I don't know what I do if I thought it was all up to me. I am definitely not up to the task, that is for sure! ;) I feel the exact same way that you do. Some of the things in the article I would never do, but some of the things I have done. For example, I used to give the kids stickers on their math worksheets, just for fun. They always got one, even if the work was wrong. Of course, I made them erase the wrong ones and do them over until they were right...but they always got the sticker. I guess it was wrong to give them the stinkin' sticker. :confused: A big part of why I homeschool is that I think our society is too splintered. Mother and Father are out of the house at separate jobs for 10 hours a day. Each child is in school, away from their parents and siblings for x hours a day. Friends and family do not live within walking, or sometimes even driving, distance, so are seen rarely. But according to this article, it's "bad" to want to be close to your kids. It's bad to be sad and reluctant to leave them at college. I don't agree with that. I think we're pack animals and that the way things were done for most of our existence is the more natural way of doing things: where the entire extended family/village worked together to survive and were in constant contact--multiple generations living in the same house, or at least in the same small town, and people rarely traveled more than 5 miles away from their village during their entire lifetime. I think the way we're all away from our mates and offspring for the vast majority of our waking hours is unnatural and should be bucked against. Eh. I'm preaching now. This whole parenting thing is confusing. Love, laughs time three, I'll join you in your prayer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keptwoman Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Ok, kind of weird! I'm quoting myself! :tongue_smilie: But I really wanted to hear what your reaction was to this part of my post. Do you think this may be a disadvantage of homeschooling? All :bigear:s to your opinions on this! :D I had thoughts along a similar line myself. So yes, I do think it may be a disadvantage. Certainly I'm questioning the reason I pulled J from school, I think in the long run I did him no favours as I protected him from the consequences of his actions then and I don't think he has learnt yet. Although the school report coming may be the wake up call he needs. I do think that our kids get less things to overcome at home, both academic and social. The notion that bullying builds character is ludicrous, but part of living in society is learning to get on with people that irk you. For that reason, it is important to be sure that kids get opportunities to fill in those "gaps" in other ways, I'm sure most of us do that. But it's something to be aware of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovelaughs_times_three Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 A big part of why I homeschool is that I think our society is too splintered. Mother and Father are out of the house at separate jobs for 10 hours a day. Each child is in school, away from their parents and siblings for x hours a day. Friends and family do not live within walking, or sometimes even driving, distance, so are seen rarely. But according to this article, it's "bad" to want to be close to your kids. It's bad to be sad and reluctant to leave them at college. I don't agree with that. I think we're pack animals and that the way things were done for most of our existence is the more natural way of doing things: where the entire extended family/village worked together to survive and were in constant contact--multiple generations living in the same house, or at least in the same small town, and people rarely traveled more than 5 miles away from their village during their entire lifetime. I think the way we're all away from our mates and offspring for the vast majority of our waking hours is unnatural and should be bucked against. :iagree: I thought, "what's wrong with hanging out with your kids for awhile and helping them move in to the dorm? Why are the faculty feeling the need to 'herd' us away?" It's not like those parents are planning on spending the night! They are just lingering and enjoying the relationship with their kids! I think this is a good thing, not something to sneer at. I think we are often too independent in our current culture. I don't want to hover over my children. There was a 13-year-old girl that spent the night at our house the other day. Her mom texted her constantly! Even into the night with "I miss you!" "What are you doing now?" "Are you still up?" The first text came just 5 minutes after we left! So maybe I agree, you can hover too much and try to get your needs for friendship met through your kids. It can be too much. But then again, who am I to judge that relationship? I don't want to smother my children, but I don't feel like I have to disconnect from them either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saujana Posted July 11, 2011 Author Share Posted July 11, 2011 Whatever the parents do, there will be some experts coming along to criticize it. And whatever the issue the kids face, it has to be something the parents did not do right.:glare: Homeschooling or not, make no difference. And for those who claim the homeschoolers are too sheltered, I don't see them leaving their kids to live on the street to learn about the hard "reality" of life either. Probably my kids are too sheltered ( from the junk of the school). But by the fact that we live here in the N America, we are already living a very sheltered life compare to the rest of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renee in NC Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 :iagree: I thought, "what's wrong with hanging out with your kids for awhile and helping them move in to the dorm? Why are the faculty feeling the need to 'herd' us away?" It's not like those parents are planning on spending the night! They are just lingering and enjoying the relationship with their kids! I think this is a good thing, not something to sneer at. I think we are often too independent in our current culture. I don't want to hover over my children. There was a 13-year-old girl that spent the night at our house the other day. Her mom texted her constantly! Even into the night with "I miss you!" "What are you doing now?" "Are you still up?" The first text came just 5 minutes after we left! So maybe I agree, you can hover too much and try to get your needs for friendship met through your kids. It can be too much. But then again, who am I to judge that relationship?I don't want to smother my children, but I don't feel like I have to disconnect from them either. When I took my ds to orientation, his advisor thanked me for not following him into her office to go over his course choices. The other parents did. I don't want to help him choose his classes because he is in *college* and starting to make his own way. I will help him move in the dorm, but I won't help him unpack, or make his bed, or anything else for that matter. You can have a close relationship with your children without limiting their development into adults. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in Neverland Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Great article!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxMom Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 When I took my ds to orientation, his advisor thanked me for not following him into her office to go over his course choices. The other parents did. I don't want to help him choose his classes because he is in *college* and starting to make his own way. I will help him move in the dorm, but I won't help him unpack, or make his bed, or anything else for that matter. You can have a close relationship with your children without limiting their development into adults. Yes. I think this speaks to the article's statement that we raise our kids to leave us. There is a vast difference between micromanaging every aspect of a kid's life so they are never feel less than deliriously happy and helping them learn the skills they need to live their lives independently in a supportive environment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renee in NC Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Yes. I think this speaks to the article's statement that we raise our kids to leave us. There is a vast difference between micromanaging every aspect of a kid's life so they are never feel less than deliriously happy and helping them learn the skills they need to live their lives independently in a supportive environment. In the book That Crumpled Paper Was Due LAst Week, the author suggests making a list of everything someone else does for a teen, then systematically working through the list to have them do it themselves. I walk my ds through things, but still have him do them for the most part. He can do so much more than he thinks he can. It isn't a sink-or-swim proposition, though - I am still there if he really, really needs me. If he is old enough to drive, he is old enough to take care of his own car maintenance, insurance, repairs, etc. He makes (and keeps) his own doctor appointments. He calls to ask me how to do certain things or what he should do, but I still make him do most of them on his own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxMom Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Exactly. You're the training wheels. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 People do need to be told! Play any computer game for kids (anything from Pbskids, for example) and every time you get something right, out comes the confetti and trumpets, 'Good job!' 'great!' 'Excellent work!' at every step. I make fun of Super Why all the time. Super job, super you! I know people in real life who think I am mean because I don't tell my kids good job or the like when they eat. My view is, the reward for eating is not being hungry any more. If my kids needed a cheerleader to tell them that, I'd be seriously disappointed in them! Ok, first of all, no knocking Super Why, lol. That's my favorite. And seriously, I don't see anything wrong with praising a child for figuring out how to solve a problem, which is what the praise on the show is for. That's different from actually solving the problem for them, which I think is more what the article is talking about. I was praised a lot, and I knew my parents were proud of my accomplishments. But, they were MY accomplishments. They didn't help me more than I needed, and if I had messed up, well, that was a learning experience. I think happiness partly comes from feeling good after accomplishing something you worked for, which seems to be what the article is talking about. But even more than that, I think happiness comes from being able to find joy in the small things. If kids are always pushed to have more, do more, be more, they may not learn that there is happiness and joy in the small everyday things that make up regular life. I'm one of the most consistently happy people I know, and it is mainly because I notice all the little good things, and enjoy them, where as others seem to need big impressive things to occur for them to be happy, and that just isn't realistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 :bigear: "That was scary for a second, but I'm ok! If something unpleasant happens, I can get through it." Yes! Exactly yes. I am a person who does not think children are so fragile that they have to be protected from everything, no matter how small...or even big. . My ex husband never experienced negative consequences growing up. He was constantly berated about all the bad things that could happen "one day" if he didn't study more, do better, help out more, etc. But no consequences happened at the time. I firmly believe this combined to mean that he on the one hand had no chance to learn that he could survive a bad experience and move on, and on the other hand meant he was constantly waiting for bad things to happen "one day". He ended up with chronic anxiety and depression. Go figure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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