Alicia64 Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 We are still in apartments and I don't mind providing snacks -- even lunch or dinner -- when I've invited my kid's friends over. Of course, I plan to provide food especially if the parent hasn't sent food w/ the child for the playdate. That's fine. What's bugging me is when kids drop in to play and then start asking for food. Or my kids get hungry and say, "feed me!" (essentially) and the neighbor kid -- whose apt. is very near -- expects food too. I feel so STINGY, but gosh a kid who had just dropped in for about an hour yesterday around 5:30 saw my son eating red grapes -- dh had spent $6 for a smallish bunch -- and the neighbor started scarfing the grapes. A small handful wouldn't have bothered me, but he kept going back for more. I finally put them away when he went back into the bedroom and he came out saying, "I LOVE those grapes!" And look startled that they were gone. What do you say to these kids?? I've told my kids several times -- gently -- that we can't afford to feed our "playdate" friends AND the drop in friends. I really feel STINGY. I can hear my mom complaining about the same thing -- loudly. I want to be kind and honest about it. Not mean like my mom was. Again, I don't mind feeding the kids that we've invited to visit for a length of time -- that I fully expect. It's the drop in kids that are bugging me. I don't know how to say, "eat at home!" politely. So that my kids don't get embarrassed as the other kid gets his feelings hurt. Alley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 :grouphug: I waffle between these kids may have nothing and I'm feeding them-which makes me more than happy, and on the other hand, when things are short, I grouse about feeding them. I really need to come up with a standard snack that I can afford to feed everyone. I have a pool so we get neighborhood kids all the time, and swimming makes them *hungry*. I know how you feel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixieB Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Can you keep something inexpensive on hand to offer for snacks for those times when the neighbor kids just drop in? Maybe air popped popcorn, or a big box of saltines or graham crackers (about $5-7 at Costco). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngieW in Texas Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 I would have a stash of food that is specifically for visiting. Your kids should know that only those foods can be eaten. Popcorn is a nice, easy snack that's also very cheap. Just have a few things available (and maybe some apples and veggie sticks too for a healthy alternative) and let them know that what you've put out is all there is. If you have other food out that people are eating, then the kids are going to think that's fair game too. The crucial thing is going to be training your kids to only offer the things that you want them to offer and not to browse the pantry or fridge looking for snacks when company is over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristusG Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 If my kids wanted a snack, then I think I'd tell the friend "Hey so-and-so, DD is going to have a short break.....she'll come get you in about 15 minutes, okay?" Then your child can eat their snack. Or, like another poster suggested, have cheap snacks on hand for guests. But the only thing is, your child will need to eat these snacks when guests are around too....not something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 I think I'd talk to my child and let them know that there won't be any snacks until 'drop in' is over. I honestly don't understand the constant need for snacks to start with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Can you keep something inexpensive on hand to offer for snacks for those times when the neighbor kids just drop in? Maybe air popped popcorn, or a big box of saltines or graham crackers (about $5-7 at Costco). I agree. My other suggestion would be to put a child's portion of the snack in a bowl or on a plate and put the rest away. If you want to offer them some grapes, put a small amount in a bowl and put the rest away. If you don't want to feed a drop-in child lunch, when your kids ask for lunch just say, "sorry, X, we have to eat lunch now, run along home and the kids can play some more after they have had their lunch." However, if I invited a child over during a meal time, then I definitely expect to feed them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 I think I'd talk to my child and let them know that there won't be any snacks until 'drop in' is over. I honestly don't understand the constant need for snacks to start with. :iagree::iagree::iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrappyhomeschooler Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 I would have a stash of food that is specifically for visiting. Your kids should know that only those foods can be eaten. Popcorn is a nice, easy snack that's also very cheap. Just have a few things available (and maybe some apples and veggie sticks too for a healthy alternative) and let them know that what you've put out is all there is. If you have other food out that people are eating, then the kids are going to think that's fair game too. The crucial thing is going to be training your kids to only offer the things that you want them to offer and not to browse the pantry or fridge looking for snacks when company is over. This is a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom4him Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 We are still in apartments and I don't mind providing snacks -- even lunch or dinner -- when I've invited my kid's friends over. Of course, I plan to provide food especially if the parent hasn't sent food w/ the child for the playdate. That's fine. What's bugging me is when kids drop in to play and then start asking for food. Or my kids get hungry and say, "feed me!" (essentially) and the neighbor kid -- whose apt. is very near -- expects food too. I feel so STINGY, but gosh a kid who had just dropped in for about an hour yesterday around 5:30 saw my son eating red grapes -- dh had spent $6 for a smallish bunch -- and the neighbor started scarfing the grapes. A small handful wouldn't have bothered me, but he kept going back for more. I finally put them away when he went back into the bedroom and he came out saying, "I LOVE those grapes!" And look startled that they were gone. What do you say to these kids?? I've told my kids several times -- gently -- that we can't afford to feed our "playdate" friends AND the drop in friends. I really feel STINGY. I can hear my mom complaining about the same thing -- loudly. I want to be kind and honest about it. Not mean like my mom was. Again, I don't mind feeding the kids that we've invited to visit for a length of time -- that I fully expect. It's the drop in kids that are bugging me. I don't know how to say, "eat at home!" politely. So that my kids don't get embarrassed as the other kid gets his feelings hurt. Alley If there are extra children here and my dc are needing a snack AND if I have the extra I allow them to share. If I have limited amount and know I will not be able to get to the store soon to replace I send the said children home. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Find something cheap to feed them so it's not so financially stressful for you. I don't have any other advice as my husband would rather die than have a visitor leave hungry. He feeds neighbor kids who are hanging around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elfgivas Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 options that we use: i) popcorn and water/hot tea/homemade iced tea for snacks when there is company ii) dc know they can't eat anything that they can't offer to everyone iii) "this is what we are having for snack today". rinse, repeat.... iv) or we often have extra veggies and serve veggies and dip. (costco carrots go a looooong way). if all they get are veggies, many kids stop asking. v) "money's really tight.we aren't having any snacks in this house this week". fwiw, ann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 I think I'd talk to my child and let them know that there won't be any snacks until 'drop in' is over. I honestly don't understand the constant need for snacks to start with. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Addressing the constant need for snacks thing: my kids are reeeeally tiny, they have crazy-fast metabolisms. They need snacks to keep their mood level. If they get too hungry we will face major crankiness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonia Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 I agree with the "no snacks" posters. Unless a child is invited for a playdate that includes a time when a meal would normally be served, I wouldn't offer any food. And perhaps the parents of these drop-in kids don't want you to feed their kids. My child would be one who would be asking for snacks (believe me, we are working on this behavior!) and I'd be annoyed to know that she was being fed snacks when she's out playing with friends. This is a kid who would beg for snacks all day and then not touch her dinner because she's not hungry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretty in Pink Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 How do you tell a kid to go eat at home? Simple. Say, "If you want a snack then you'll need to go home and get one." If you would rather provide a cheap snack, I suggest popcorn or those freezer pop things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivka Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 I don't think you can expect kids to be tuned in to the price of food. Fresh fruit gets held up to kids as a great healthy snack, and so I'm betting the neighbor kid saw nothing wrong with eating plenty of them. In that situation, I would put some grapes in a cup or bowl for each child and then put them away. I wouldn't leave out snacks and expect kids to self-limit how much they ate - if I put out a big bowl of grapes, I would be prepared to have them all be eaten. I especially wouldn't expect kids to self-limit based on price. I just don't think they have the awareness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 I don't think you can expect kids to be tuned in to the price of food. Fresh fruit gets held up to kids as a great healthy snack, and so I'm betting the neighbor kid saw nothing wrong with eating plenty of them. In that situation, I would put some grapes in a cup or bowl for each child and then put them away. I wouldn't leave out snacks and expect kids to self-limit how much they ate - if I put out a big bowl of grapes, I would be prepared to have them all be eaten. I especially wouldn't expect kids to self-limit based on price. I just don't think they have the awareness. I agree with this. Also, some kids don't get much fresh fruit or many fresh veggies at home. I wouldn't expect them to know what an acceptable amount to eat would be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia64 Posted June 28, 2011 Author Share Posted June 28, 2011 Addressing the constant need for snacks thing: my kids are reeeeally tiny, they have crazy-fast metabolisms. They need snacks to keep their mood level. If they get too hungry we will face major crankiness. This is totally me and my kids, so I really do care when my boys get hungry. THANK YOU TO EVERYONE!! This really helps. The sad thing is that "cheap" snacks are all I ever have even for our family. But I love the idea of having a stash so that the expensive grapes aren't eaten etc. Thank you guys! Alley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobela Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 I have struggled with this in the past as well. Except some kids in our area I knew were not being fed well at home and after lots of hard play in the heat they were genuinely hungry. It was hard to say no even if we were broke. Like you, the fresh fruits always went the fastest. That and raisins. I would have chips, cookies, and other junk left over while the kids asked for more fruit. I learned to keep apples, watermelon (in season), and oranges around all the time if I could afford them. I would slice the oranges like restaurants and the kids would go crazy. I could buy a large watermelon for $5. I would then slice it or cut it in small pieces and sometimes serve it frozen like popcicles. I would also buy raisins by the big bags. Kids could have all the raisins they wanted if I had them. I also kept ice water ready and available. Sometimes they were dehydrated but thought they were hungry. I would give a big glass of water and tell them to drink it while I went to see what snacks I might have. If they wanted something I didn't waent to serve, I would tell them - ot was for a special recipe, or for my dh's lunch at work, or so on. They seemed to understand that. Many times though after that large glass of water they no longer needed a snack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmrich Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 POPCORN - it is cheap, filling, and yummy. Last year I had 4 - 5 kids over every Wed. (helping out homeschool mom's who were working) plus my own 3. Every week - popcorn! One of my dd's friends eats a ton (she is skinny with a huge appetite) and she would refill her bowl four times! A cheap and easy dinner is a baked potatoes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 I think I'd talk to my child and let them know that there won't be any snacks until 'drop in' is over. I honestly don't understand the constant need for snacks to start with. My kids are bone thin. I swear. They *need* snacks. AND, they are going through growth spurts. They eat All. Day. Long. So there's not going to be a time when a person drops over and they're not snacking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Find something cheap to feed them so it's not so financially stressful for you. I don't have any other advice as my husband would rather die than have a visitor leave hungry. He feeds neighbor kids who are hanging around. this is the way my Dh is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oakblossoms Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 I normally send kids home nicely. We are going to take a break. When we are done he will come get you to play again. My kids get fruit, popcorn, pbj, smoothies...I do give snacks to the one kid that is here a lot because my son ends up over there a lot. When we lived in the city I very seldom offered all the kids snacks. They lived a few houses down and they could go home. I don't see that as stingy. I occasionally make cookies or something for kids who visit though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trish Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 How about some unusually healthy foods? They probably won't eat as much, and may gain some new habits! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 When my niece drops by, I offer popcorn with a little bit of butter and some parmesan sprinkles. It's cheap and filling. That's all I offer. Occasionally, I make a batch of oatmeal/chocolate chip cookies and will offer exactly TWO. No more...the rest get packed away and if more requests are made, I have niece go home. She is the only child I've ever had a problem with and she will constantly ask for food if I don't have strict rules. Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 My kids are bone thin. I swear. They *need* snacks. AND, they are going through growth spurts. They eat All. Day. Long. So there's not going to be a time when a person drops over and they're not snacking. Justamouse, boy can I relate. This is an issue for us and with ds's severe hypoglycemia, he's on a strict "snack" schedule. So, we just don't have kids over other than niece and he eats the popcorn that I offer her, but then goes to the kitchen for a handful of nuts and a glass of milk. I keep niece busy while he's in there because she'd drink a quart of milk and a cup of nuts if I let her in the kitchen. I am not trying to be stingy, but ds is required to have macademia nuts and cashews which are cheap and especially those macademia nuts. I pay $8.00 for 8 oz.! Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 I would have a stash of food that is specifically for visiting. Your kids should know that only those foods can be eaten. Popcorn is a nice, easy snack that's also very cheap. Just have a few things available (and maybe some apples and veggie sticks too for a healthy alternative) and let them know that what you've put out is all there is. If you have other food out that people are eating, then the kids are going to think that's fair game too. The crucial thing is going to be training your kids to only offer the things that you want them to offer and not to browse the pantry or fridge looking for snacks when company is over. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmoe Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Plan a cheap snack to have on hand for these occasions. Muffins can be made for not much money--fancy them up with some sugar cinnamon on top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oakblossoms Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 How about some unusually healthy foods? They probably won't eat as much, and may gain some new habits! My kids love Nori rolls. They are pretty cheap, since they are mostly rice and leftovers. I have a sushi maker to make it easier. You sure can have a snack. Here is your seaweed:lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleIzumi Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 My kids need to eat a lot, too. I usually pull out the carrots & hummus with friends--the ones who are actually hungry eat & are filled, and those of a mooching mind aren't tempted :lol:. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UmMusa Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 I don't think you can expect kids to be tuned in to the price of food. Fresh fruit gets held up to kids as a great healthy snack, and so I'm betting the neighbor kid saw nothing wrong with eating plenty of them. In that situation, I would put some grapes in a cup or bowl for each child and then put them away. I wouldn't leave out snacks and expect kids to self-limit how much they ate - if I put out a big bowl of grapes, I would be prepared to have them all be eaten. I especially wouldn't expect kids to self-limit based on price. I just don't think they have the awareness. I totally agree. They don't know how expensive fruits are (my kids could eat a few pounds of blueberries in one sitting if they could). I think at this stage we need to build in a plan for feeding friends. Whether it be popcorn, crackers, dry cereal, or something fancier, we should offer anyone in our home a drink and a simple snack. That's just my personal feelings on hospitality. Even if money is low, put out some cups of water and a couple of saltines or pretzels. However, sometimes you just need to tell a kid "honey it's time for you to go home for a bit now. DS will come knock on your door when he's done with lunch". The OP was asking about snacks, though. I guess we do have to tell the kids what not to offer, and then we should just put out what we want. If a kid asks for more I'd tell him sorry we're using the rest of those grapes tomorrow so we cannot eat them today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvasMom Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 We are still in apartments and I don't mind providing snacks -- even lunch or dinner -- when I've invited my kid's friends over. Of course, I plan to provide food especially if the parent hasn't sent food w/ the child for the playdate. That's fine. What's bugging me is when kids drop in to play and then start asking for food. Or my kids get hungry and say, "feed me!" (essentially) and the neighbor kid -- whose apt. is very near -- expects food too. I feel so STINGY, but gosh a kid who had just dropped in for about an hour yesterday around 5:30 saw my son eating red grapes -- dh had spent $6 for a smallish bunch -- and the neighbor started scarfing the grapes. A small handful wouldn't have bothered me, but he kept going back for more. I finally put them away when he went back into the bedroom and he came out saying, "I LOVE those grapes!" And look startled that they were gone. What do you say to these kids?? I've told my kids several times -- gently -- that we can't afford to feed our "playdate" friends AND the drop in friends. I really feel STINGY. I can hear my mom complaining about the same thing -- loudly. I want to be kind and honest about it. Not mean like my mom was. Again, I don't mind feeding the kids that we've invited to visit for a length of time -- that I fully expect. It's the drop in kids that are bugging me. I don't know how to say, "eat at home!" politely. So that my kids don't get embarrassed as the other kid gets his feelings hurt. Alley "No" works well for me. I would just nicely tell them they need to go home to get a snack and I would not feel bad in the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Just clarifying my previous comment. I get that some kids need to graze, that their metabolism works that way. However, what I don't get is the constant snack offer that has sprung up all over. Soccer games, baseball, playdates...it just seems that pretty much every activity a kid is involved in seems to also involve a snack of some sort. I do snacks, 2 a day. Hold over from running a dayhome when it was mandatory. I don't get kids dropping in at any time and asking for a snack 10 minutes after they show up though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Yes. But this is why strollers have cup holders for both adult and child, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoforjoy Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 (edited) If it's near a meal time and a visiting child is hungry, I send them home. It's very common for kids who are over (and my son, too) to start complaining around 4:30 that they are starving. To me, that means it's time to go home, so they can have dinner soon. If it's a reasonable time for a snack, and I'd be feeding my kids snacks anyway, I'll give a portion to any visitors, but I dole out the food. When it's just my kids, I usually let DS decide how much he wants to eat, but when he has friends over, I give out predetermined portions. If they're still hungry after that, they can go home for more food. I don't let DS just snack at random times when friends are over unless he's willing to share with them and we have enough to do so. A lot of it is just that kids don't understand the cost of food. My DS can easily eat through a carton of berries in one sitting, and if he has a friend over, they could go through two or three. I try to offer a few different things at snack time--usually a fruit, a protein (cheese or nuts, usually), and a carb. It seems to get everybody filled up faster and with less food than if I offer only one thing. We do do "junk food" at our house, but I don't give it out that often during snacks. If it's a hot day I might offer an ice pop or a small bowl of ice cream to visitors, but not consistently or else they will ask every single time they come over. If I've just baked something, I'll usually offer a couple of cookies or a muffin. But I try to stick to pretty basic snacks like crackers and cheese, or crackers with peanut butter, or carrot sticks with hummus, and then some sliced fruit. Edited June 29, 2011 by twoforjoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoforjoy Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 (edited) And perhaps the parents of these drop-in kids don't want you to feed their kids. My child would be one who would be asking for snacks (believe me, we are working on this behavior!) and I'd be annoyed to know that she was being fed snacks when she's out playing with friends. This is a kid who would beg for snacks all day and then not touch her dinner because she's not hungry. Unless a parent explicitly tells me they don't want their child being fed, I assume it's fine to give snacks. And, unless a parent or child mentions a food allergy to me, I assume it's fine to give them whatever we're eating, particularly if it's a healthy snack. Honestly, I'd be a little put off if a parent got annoyed with me for feeding a snack to their child, especially if that child was asking me for food. I will call, if it's a less healthy snack and the kids are younger. Last week one day we had a huge tub of ice cream, it was really hot, and DS desperately wanted to make sundaes with his friends. I called their mom to make sure that was okay before we did. But, if we're talking about a kid who is 5 or older, I'm going to assume that if it's 2 p.m. and they're asking for food, it's okay for me to give them crackers, cheese, and grapes unless I've been told otherwise by the parent. DS knows that we don't want him snacking near dinner time. For him, if he snacks after about 3, he won't eat. But, if he goes to a friend's house at 3:30, I think it's either on him to not ask or on me to tell the parents I don't want him fed snacks. If I don't tell them, and he goes over and asks for a snack at 4 and gets one, then I'm not going to get annoyed at the parents for it. Edited June 29, 2011 by twoforjoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXMomof4 Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Popcorn and carrot sticks are the standard snack fare at our house when there is company. Well, that's standard snack fare most of the time. It's ridiculously cheap and easy and relatively healthy (if I would not add butter to the popcorn it would be way healthier). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom0012 Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 I haven't read all the other replies, and I don't know how old your kids are, but we don't do snacks. My kids are 11 and 9 and we haven't had snacks in years other than the extra bananas my son eats during a growth spurt. They eat their meals much better this way. I will rarely offer popcorn and apple juice when a friend is over as a special treat, but I don't make it a habit. If you feel your kids do need snacks, maybe you could tell them they can only have them before or after a playdate. Now, if your kids are 3 years old, please just disregard this. I know small children do need snacks. Lisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TammyinTN Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 We went through this when we lived in military housing. I would have like 10 little boys playing in the basement. They would get hungry...so peanut butter crackers or cheese crackers was my staple. I always kept ice water and sometimes kool-aid for just this purpose. Also, I always kept those cheap ice pops in the freezer for hot days. Each week or two I also baked 10 dozen homemade cookies and pop them in the freezer. That was a nice treat as well and cheap since I made them from scratch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbmom Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 I was going to suggest the cheap snacks as well-popcorn and the freezer pops (kind of like otter pops) other posters have mentioned are popular. If you invest in a popsicle maker ($5) you could have the kids make juice popsicles for snack (and the waiting time for the popsicles to freeze enforces some snack moderation ;) ) Mini muffins, those huge things of goldfish you can get at Costco, the big containers of applesauce (that you portion out for them) and carrots/celery with ranch or hummus are all snacks I find I can make or pick up pretty inexpensively as well. The key is really for the kids to understand what they can and can't have when a friend is over-I don't think it is OK for my kid to be eating raspberries and yogurt while a guest eats popcorn, so the kids need to understand that if they want something other than what you offer to them and their friends their friend needs to go home before they can have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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