Busking...Begging or working?

[Donna]

My children have been trying to raise money for their trip to Ireland to compete in the All Ireland by playing music in parks, in pubs, and at local festivals. At festivals they are paid a fee but in pubs they generally work for tips (sometimes with a fee as well) and in parks they busk (which I consider the same thing as working for tips).

 

We have mostly met with positive encouragement for their efforts. There is no way we'd be able to afford to take them without their help with fundraising and I think it is an important lesson for them to learn that it takes work to do something you want to do...not having everything given to them.

 

The kids love busking and were the ones to initiate the idea of playing in the park. My dd says she loves "to make people happy by playing for them" and they love the little kids who dance in front of them while they play. It really is a lot of fun for them and they play until they get tired then we go home. They've played in a park 3 times since they qualified to go to Ireland the first weekend of April (it's not like they are out there everyday or anything).

 

The other day, however, an older woman sat down next to me on a park bench mumbling something about parents "making" their kids beg and child labor laws, looking at me to see if I agreed with her. She had no idea I was the parent until I said, "Oh, they're mine." Then she changed her tune a little but still looked at it as begging.

 

In our area it is not uncommon to see firemen, baseball teams, cheerleaders, and football teams standing at intersections causing traffic jams or in front of shopping centers with a can asking for donations for their cause. They aren't selling anything or "doing" anything. To me, this is begging. I don't see how being paid to provide a service can be considered the same thing...people listen to their music and if they enjoy it, they leave a little money in the case.

 

What says the hive?

[shinyhappypeople]

They're not begging. They're performing. Good for them :)

 

Perhaps they could make a sign explaining that they're raising money for a competition?

[Donna]

They're not begging. They're performing. Good for them :)

 

Perhaps they could make a sign explaining that they're raising money for a competition?

 

They do have a sign letting people know what they are raising money for.

[Matryoshka]

I have a friend whose kids busked to go to Ireland for music! I think it worked out quite well.

 

Busking is not begging.

[Murphy101]

Ug. No that isn't begging. The other stuff you illustrate is tho, IMO.

[GinaPagnato]

Your kids are most definitely working, and if someone wants to compensate them for their time and talent, all the better! This is in no way begging. There are those of us who appreciate the arts and recognize the enormous time and effort it takes to play well, and if we can encourage a young performer by throwing some money their way, then we should definitely do so.

 

Kudos to you and your kids!

[Mejane]

I have no problem with that. It's better than getting an email asking for donations.

 

ETA: We have musicians who sometimes play outside our local theaters on show nights. I always put money in their donation receptacle. They are working for it, imo.

Edited May 30, 2011 by Mejane

[catz]

They're definitely performing in my mind. I love to see kids busking! I would love it if my daughter would do it when she gets a little older. Especially for a good cause like an educational trip or a non-profit. I find that much less obnoxious than some other forms of fund raising or money making (like ringing my door bell at dinner or bed time).

[catalinakel]

Good for them! Way better than standing by the side of the road and begging for money. No comparison.

[Dmmetler]

It's performing. In many big US cities, Busking requires the same membership in the Musician's Union that performing in other union venues to, because the union has an agreement with the city for licensing of street performers.

[JennyD]

I'd say that I lump beggars, panhandlers, buskers, street performers, folks shouting about doomsday, people handing out religious leaflets, young fresh-faced kids toting clipboards with petitions, high school kids selling M&Ms, and the Salvation Army kettle people into the same general category of Random People Asking Me For Something.

 

That said, I don't get particularly bent out of shape about any of them (although I could live without the people screaming about how we're all going to hell if we don't repent our evil ways right this very minute). I also pretty much always give money to street and subway musicians, as well as to anyone else who gives me a good story and/or entertains my kids for a few stops on the subway.

 

BTW, the liner notes for Yo-Yo Ma's Cello Suites has an awesome photo of Yo-Yo Ma busking right in the middle of Times Square. Good luck to your kids!

Edited May 30, 2011 by JennyD

[Mommy22alyns]

I agree... busking is not begging.

[bzymom]

Busking has never bothered me, unlike begging. It is performance, it is work, and people are free to give or not.

 

Makes my day happier to encounter music unexpectedly!:)

[justasque]

Assuming they play decently, and are clean and tidy, busking is not begging.

The sign explaining why they are doing it makes it even better.

They will get some great performance experience doing this. Good for them for earning the money for their trip.

Edited May 30, 2011 by askPauline

[In The Great White North]

Are they really making enough for a trip to Ireland by busking in the park?

 

I remember hearing the story about Joshua Bell making a whopping $32 on a million dollar violin and it didn't sound too promising.

 

http://www.snopes.com/music/artists/bell.asp

[Donna]

Are they really making enough for a trip to Ireland by busking in the park?

 

I remember hearing the story about Joshua Bell making a whopping $32 on a million dollar violin and it didn't sound too promising.

 

http://www.snopes.com/music/artists/bell.asp

 

I read the story about Joshua Bell but then again he was an adult playing classical music. I'd put my cute little 8yo who can play Irish fiddle better than most adults accompanied by her brother on guitar up against any adult busking on the street. They do surprisingly well plus it isn't just any park but a nice park in a nice area of a big city. LOL

[elizabeth]

If your talented children were in Iowa I would be delighted and filled with joy to hear fine music. I think what you are doing is wonderful!!!!

[Aquinas Academy]

Good for your kids! Busking is definitely not begging, IMO. If it is then my kids have done more begging than I care to admit. :)

ETA: I just listened to your daughter playing on your blog. Absolutely wonderful!

Edited May 30, 2011 by Aquinas Academy

[kalanamak]

My children have been trying to raise money for their trip to Ireland to compete in the All Ireland by playing music in parks, in pubs, and at local festivals. At festivals they are paid a fee but in pubs they generally work for tips (sometimes with a fee as well) and in parks they busk (which I consider the same thing as working for tips).

 

Not begging.

[bookfiend]

That is not begging. People who knock on my car window are begging; people who knock on my front door are selling/fundraising. Your children are not approaching anyone - big difference.

[Ellie]

Appaently I am the only one here who doesn't know what "busking" is.:confused:

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

I'd say that I lump beggars, panhandlers, buskers, street performers, folks shouting about doomsday, people handing out religious leaflets, young fresh-faced kids toting clipboards with petitions, high school kids selling M&Ms, and the Salvation Army kettle people into the same general category of Random People Asking Me For Something.

 

That said, I don't get particularly bent out of shape about any of them (although I could live without the people screaming about how we're all going to hell if we don't repent our evil ways right this very minute). I also pretty much always give money to street and subway musicians, as well as to anyone else who gives me a good story and/or entertains my kids for a few stops on the subway.

 

BTW, the liner notes for Yo-Yo Ma's Cello Suites has an awesome photo of Yo-Yo Ma busking right in the middle of Times Square. Good luck to your kids!

 

When my son is busking he isn't asking anyone for anything. He's providing free entertainment for those who don't contribute, and an open fiddle or banjo case for those who care to toss in some coins.

 

How is he asking for something, or worthy of being in the same category as a panhandler or doomsday-er? I think that is a little offensive.

 

He follows no one and stands in no traveler's path. He doesn't mention his instrument case or any cause he's raising money for. No guilt, no heart-strings, no verbal pitch. Just music. He makes no deliberate eye contact or other moves to draw in passers-by wishing to ignore him. He is just part of the atmosphere, unlike leaflet passer-outers or kids with clipboards. He does not engage anyone. He just plays music.

 

He does make good eye contact and offers smiles and good music to anyone who stops to listen, and nods them on their way whether they toss in money or not.

 

This is honorable work, and one of the few things a kid under age 16 can do for money in our state.

[Aquinas Academy]

Are they really making enough for a trip to Ireland by busking in the park?

 

I remember hearing the story about Joshua Bell making a whopping $32 on a million dollar violin and it didn't sound too promising.

 

http://www.snopes.com/music/artists/bell.asp

I think people are much more likely to listen to kids performing in a park than an adult (even an increadibly talented one) playing at rush hour in a metro station. My kids have made a decent amount of money playing classical music a farmers markets. It helps that they're super cute. :D

[catz]

I think people are much more likely to listen to kids performing in a park than an adult (even an increadibly talented one) playing at rush hour in a metro station. My kids have made a decent amount of money playing classical music a farmers markets. It helps that they're super cute. :D

 

:iagree: I know a few kids who've played at farmer's markets who've been very successful! I can't help but drop a dollar or 2 when a child is playing.

[Aquinas Academy]

Appaently I am the only one here who doesn't know what "busking" is.:confused:

Busking

[Maplinmum]

My daughter busks down at our local markets, people often comment on how it adds to the atmosphere. (Peela if you see a young harpist at Freo markets come over and say hello.)

[LittleIzumi]

I love it! I've given to buskers before because they are CERTAINLY earning it. I couldn't make anything close to that beautiful sound.

[Ellie]

Busking

:001_huh:

 

I have never, ever heard that word before in my life. And I dont live under a rock. :lol:

[JoyfulMama]

One of the things my mother and I differ over. *I* have no issue with busking. (Although I didn't know it had a special name.)

[JennyD]

When my son is busking he isn't asking anyone for anything. He's providing free entertainment for those who don't contribute, and an open fiddle or banjo case for those who care to toss in some coins.

 

How is he asking for something, or worthy of being in the same category as a panhandler or doomsday-er? I think that is a little offensive.

 

He follows no one and stands in no traveler's path. He doesn't mention his instrument case or any cause he's raising money for. No guilt, no heart-strings, no verbal pitch. Just music. He makes no deliberate eye contact or other moves to draw in passers-by wishing to ignore him. He is just part of the atmosphere, unlike leaflet passer-outers or kids with clipboards. He does not engage anyone. He just plays music.

 

He does make good eye contact and offers smiles and good music to anyone who stops to listen, and nods them on their way whether they toss in money or not.

 

This is honorable work, and one of the few things a kid under age 16 can do for money in our state.

 

Sorry, I still consider buskers people who are asking for money. Which I generally give them, because I appreciate a good tune, but I don't make a big distinction between them and other folks on the street asking for money or to talk to me or whatever.

 

We may be thinking of somewhat different things, though. There are some buskers here who play in parks or on subway platforms with an open case (some legally, some not) but there are also a lot of folks who come through the subway cars, play music, and then pass a hat. Which is really not very different at all than the people who come in, tell a long story, and then pass a hat.

 

Again, I don't mind any of it -- except maybe the doomsdayers and when I have a headache, the guys who drum on pails-- and consider it all (including the leafleters and kids with clipboards) part of the urban atmosphere. Nor do I consider any of it particularly dishonorable. Presumably somebody who is panhandling on the subway doesn't have a lot of fabulous career options. But I still think that all of these people are doing pretty much the same thing.

 

I will say that I always look closely to see who the performer is, though. Some of them are quite amazing.

Edited May 31, 2011 by JennyD

[Aquinas Academy]

:001_huh:

 

I have never, ever heard that word before in my life. And I dont live under a rock. :lol:

Interesting. What word do you use? The word "busking" is used all the time here. "Street performing" is generally used for people who busk professionally.

Sorry for going off topic.

[zaichiki]

I read the story about Joshua Bell but then again he was an adult playing classical music. I'd put my cute little 8yo who can play Irish fiddle better than most adults accompanied by her brother on guitar up against any adult busking on the street. They do surprisingly well plus it isn't just any park but a nice park in a nice area of a big city. LOL

 

Is it true? Did he really only make $32? It was in a NYC subway, right? I don't think I'd give money at the subway. A park, maybe, especially if the musician was excellent (child or adult).

 

I think children who are really excellent musicians are probably more likely to get money from strangers. We don't feel bad about giving it to them. I sometimes feel bad about giving money to adult performers -- I guess I wonder if busking is their main way of making a living and I feel uncomfortable with that idea. Maybe that's where the idea of begging is coming from? And maybe the adult on the street suspects an adult is manipulating and taking advantage of the children. Have you heard about the world-reknowned cellist Gregor Piatigorsky and the way he was forced to busk and work as a child in Russia?

 

It's also really sad that most people would be more likely to give money to a child fiddler (no offense meant -- your dd is truly an amazing musician!) than Joshua Bell playing classical music. I get it that fiddle music is more "danceable" and it's "the music of the regular people," but the amount of training and skill required to play what Joshua Bell plays THE WAY he plays just blows me away. And people don't appreciate that?! It's insane! I hope he'd make a ton of money in a pretty park on a nice day. (No offense meant to danceable music: I LOVE Irish Step Dancing and fiddle music.)

[LibraryLover]

I love public art. I can't pass an open instrument case without tossing in some money, no mater how little I have on me. Music in parks, squares etc is a great gift.

[JennyD]

Is it true? Did he really only make $32? It was in a NYC subway, right? I don't think I'd give money at the subway. A park, maybe, especially if the musician was excellent (child or adult).

 

I think children who are really excellent musicians are probably more likely to get money from strangers. We don't feel bad about giving it to them. I sometimes feel bad about giving money to adult performers -- I guess I wonder if busking is their main way of making a living and I feel uncomfortable with that idea. Maybe that's where the idea of begging is coming from? And maybe the adult on the street suspects an adult is manipulating and taking advantage of the children. Have you heard about the world-reknowned cellist Gregor Piatigorsky and the way he was forced to busk and work as a child in Russia?

 

It's also really sad that most people would be more likely to give money to a child fiddler (no offense meant -- your dd is truly an amazing musician!) than Joshua Bell playing classical music. I get it that fiddle music is more "danceable" and it's "the music of the regular people," but the amount of training and skill required to play what Joshua Bell plays THE WAY he plays just blows me away. And people don't appreciate that?! It's insane! I hope he'd make a ton of money in a pretty park on a nice day. (No offense meant to danceable music: I LOVE Irish Step Dancing and fiddle music.)

 

I thought that the story about Joshua Bell was that he played in Union Station in Washington D.C. and only a few people stopped to hear him. Let me see if I can find the article...

 

ETA -- here it is: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/04/AR2007040401721.html

[Aquinas Academy]

It's also really sad that most people would be more likely to give money to a child fiddler (no offense meant -- your dd is truly an amazing musician!) than Joshua Bell playing classical music. I get it that fiddle music is more "danceable" and it's "the music of the regular people," but the amount of training and skill required to play what Joshua Bell plays THE WAY he plays just blows me away. And people don't appreciate that?! It's insane! I hope he'd make a ton of money in a pretty park on a nice day.

I don't think it's that people don't appreaciate Joshua Bell's playing, but in a subway station people are rushing around and not listening to music. I'm sure he'd make more money playing in a park.

[zaichiki]

:001_huh:

 

I have never, ever heard that word before in my life. And I dont live under a rock. :lol:

 

Maybe it's a regional thing? Do you have a lot of contact with musicians? Maybe the term is well-known in that particular sub-culture?

[zaichiki]

I don't think it's that people don't appreaciate Joshua Bell's playing, but in a subway station people are rushing around and not listening to music. I'm sure he'd make more money playing in a park.

 

:001_smile: I REALLY hope so! He's certainly amazing!

[Donna]

Is it true? Did he really only make $32? It was in a NYC subway, right?

 

It's also really sad that most people would be more likely to give money to a child fiddler (no offense meant -- your dd is truly an amazing musician!) than Joshua Bell playing classical music. I get it that fiddle music is more "danceable" and it's "the music of the regular people," but the amount of training and skill required to play what Joshua Bell plays THE WAY he plays just blows me away. And people don't appreciate that?! It's insane! I hope he'd make a ton of money in a pretty park on a nice day. (No offense meant to danceable music: I LOVE Irish Step Dancing and fiddle music.)

 

No offense taken.:001_smile:

 

Yes, it was a study done in the NYC subway. I read about it in a magazine though I forget which one. The problem is that the average person in the NYC subway probably has no idea who Joshua Bell is (stick Justin Beiber in the subway OTOH) and if they did, who would suspect that the guy playing violin in the subway is actually him anyway. He was wearing street clothes and a baseball cap in the photo with the article so he wouldn't have particularly stood out except for what he was playing.

 

In the article it said something about young children trying to stop to listen and their parents dragging them away in a hurry to get on with their day. I honestly don't think the average person in the subway, or anywhere really, appreciates or understands great classical music either. Not saying that to be uppity or anything because before dd began playing, I wouldn't have known the difference between what a really great musician played and what someone who is above average is playing unless it was pointed out to me or I heard them at the same time to compare. Just look at some of the comments on youtube videos or the people put on talk shows and you'll see that people are often more impressed with flashy/fast playing than really great music and are easily swayed by what other people tell them is good playing.

[zaichiki]

I thought that the story about Joshua Bell was that he played in Union Station in Washington D.C. and only a few people stopped to hear him. Let me see if I can find the article...

 

ETA -- here it is: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/04/AR2007040401721.html

 

Thanks! I couldn't remember the details very well. I know I've heard a number of people busking in the NYC subways. I'm not likely to stop and dig out money in that environment, though. :tongue_smilie:

[zaichiki]

who would suspect that the guy playing violin in the subway is actually him anyway

 

If I recognized the playing as amazing, I would stop and gawk, but I wouldn't *in a million years* believe that it could possibly be someone famous. Seriously, I'd assume it was an imposter. What do they call those people who dress up like celebrities... Still, the beautiful music would make me stop. I'd probably try to make eye contact and smile to show the musician that I liked the music. If I was brave enough I might even try to take a picture.

[zaichiki]

There are some buskers here who play in parks or on subway platforms with an open case (some legally, some not) but there are also a lot of folks who come through the subway cars, play music, and then pass a hat.

 

Busking in public in NYC (the open case while playing) is legal. I *hate* the subway thing. I feel like a hostage!

[keptwoman]

I love public art. I can't pass an open instrument case without tossing in some money, no mater how little I have on me. Music in parks, squares etc is a great gift.

:iagree:

[musicmommy]

Ok, I'm probably a bit biased though because I've done some busking in my day. Some towns are definitely more welcoming and friendly towards it than others, but the over all response is appreciative. I had a couple of groups I was a part of and we had so much fun that we really didn't care how much money we made.

 

Now that I'm older, I don't do it anymore but I love to stop and listen. Unfortunately, my dh doesn't share the same fascination. :D

[RanchGirl]

My children have been trying to raise money for their trip to Ireland to compete in the All Ireland by playing music in parks, in pubs, and at local festivals. At festivals they are paid a fee but in pubs they generally work for tips (sometimes with a fee as well) and in parks they busk (which I consider the same thing as working for tips).

 

We have mostly met with positive encouragement for their efforts. There is no way we'd be able to afford to take them without their help with fundraising and I think it is an important lesson for them to learn that it takes work to do something you want to do...not having everything given to them.

 

The kids love busking and were the ones to initiate the idea of playing in the park. My dd says she loves "to make people happy by playing for them" and they love the little kids who dance in front of them while they play. It really is a lot of fun for them and they play until they get tired then we go home. They've played in a park 3 times since they qualified to go to Ireland the first weekend of April (it's not like they are out there everyday or anything).

 

The other day, however, an older woman sat down next to me on a park bench mumbling something about parents "making" their kids beg and child labor laws, looking at me to see if I agreed with her. She had no idea I was the parent until I said, "Oh, they're mine." Then she changed her tune a little but still looked at it as begging.

 

In our area it is not uncommon to see firemen, baseball teams, cheerleaders, and football teams standing at intersections causing traffic jams or in front of shopping centers with a can asking for donations for their cause. They aren't selling anything or "doing" anything. To me, this is begging. I don't see how being paid to provide a service can be considered the same thing...people listen to their music and if they enjoy it, they leave a little money in the case.

 

What says the hive?

 

I think it's a great way for kids to earn money for a trip. I think it's much better than fundraising by letter or begging with signs without providing musical entertainment. I also think it's better than fundraisers selling overpriced coffee, cookies, etc, since the kids are actually working and all of the money is going toward their trip. Plus they are practicing their music and performance skills... win win win all the way around.

 

I am definitely going to suggest this to my children should they ever need to fundraise in the future!

[milovany]

:001_huh:

 

I have never, ever heard that word before in my life. And I dont live under a rock. :lol:

 

Exactly my thoughts and sentiments as I read through this thread, Ellie! I had never, ever heard that term before. Little did I know I am the mother of a busker! Cool. My son likes to juggle on the sidewalk leading into the county fair (which is across the street from a house we own). I confess I've been a bit embarrassed for him, thinking it was coming across as begging, but it looks like I was in the wrong? He made something like $32 last year -- which is a lot when you're 10!

[Audrey]

They're not begging. They're performing.

 

 

:iagree:

[KristinaBreece]

When I grow up, my goal is to move to NYC, find whatever job or jobs I can (since the odds of that dream slot with the NY Phil probably isn't coming along any time soon :lol:), and to make ends meet by playing jazz F Horn on the steps at the Metropolitan Museum of Art. Come on, who wouldn't like to hear jazz French horn?

 

I told my mom that when I left for college at 18. Instead, I got knocked up & married at 21. :blushing: Best. Oops. Ever. :thumbup1:

 

Hm. I guess, there's plenty of life left at 41. DD will be 18 & off to college then-- and maybe I could talk my country mouse DH into that move. Ah, well. Here's hoping. :cheers2:

[DawnL]

I have never heard the word "busking". It sounds like you mean that your children are singing and/or playing instruments to earn money. I have never felt that is "begging". That is what I call "singing for your supper". (Or in this case, a really cool trip!;))

 

We will never please all of the people. Just know that you and your family are not wrong. :)

[asta]

I think how much someone can make will also depend on what they are doing in their "environment". From what I saw, in the touristy areas of Scotland, even a lousy piper can make a bit of money, while in the non-tourist (university) areas, a piper better be pretty good! I'm sure some of the native Scots will have more info on that one...

 

Where we live, kid could probably rake it in (if he weren't so shy) simply because there *are* no piper buskers. But the school kids who come out at Christmas in the snow with their violins or little groupings of horns do really well, even if they aren't very good... simply because, well, they are out in the snow trying! And they are so adorable. You *want* to give money to a tween who is playing their instrument instead of standing around texting and looking broody...

 

 

a

[Nan in Mass]

Definately not begging : ) in my mind.

 

But perhaps the old woman had seen children set to busking to help feed their families? There are places where it isn't voluntary for the children. Then it would come under the child labour laws, I should think. And I think in people's minds, those children probably get lumped in with children set to begging.

 

In my area, busking is working, not begging. You have to get a license to do it in the city. You are being paid for something, not asking for something for free.

 

-Nan