Local elementary incident...what do you think?

[jewellsmommy]

This is the news link:

 

http://www.wavy.com/dpp/news/local_news/norfolk/controversial-lesson-taught-in-class

 

Basically, a 4th grade teacher was attempting to illustrate the slave trade by "auctioning off" the AA/black students in the room. :001_huh:

 

I think this may have been an acceptable illustration had it been done with older students (thinking highschool). If a few students had been selected, spoken with ahead of time etc. and if a class letter was sent out pre-explaining to parents, then maybe this could have gone better. I think I get the point of the experience she was trying to represent, the shock value maybe. But I feel this audience was way too young.

 

What do you think?

[gardening momma]

I think she could have demonstrated her point by doing the exercise with a different characteristic--everyone with blond hair or everyone with freckles or everyone who wore blue today.

[Murphy101]

I think the teacher is an idiot.

[jewellsmommy]

I think she could have demonstrated her point by doing the exercise with a different characteristic--everyone with blond hair or everyone with freckles or everyone who wore blue today.

 

 

Yes, this. That would have been less awkward, I think.

[Starr]

There are plenty of these exercises using eye color. I would have been furious!

[jewellsmommy]

I think the teacher is an idiot.

 

 

Yea, you do have to wonder: did she not second guess this plan at any point? Did she not think that at least one mama might not like to hear that her child was "auctioned off" at school today?

[lionfamily1999]

I think the teacher is an idiot.

:lol::iagree:

[Meriwether]

That is horrific. Absolutely horrific. Why would you do something like that? If you feel you have to do that sort of activity, have each kid randomly pull a t-shirt out of a bag. Auction off one color. Don't use skin color, eye color, or any other genetic characteristic of those kids.

[Jennifer3141]

I think the teacher is an idiot.

 

ITA!!! And I can't help but wonder if the teacher will/can be fired for this. Will the union allow it?? I can say that my kid would be pulled from that class the second I caught wind of this.

Edited April 12, 2011 by Jennifer3141

[jewellsmommy]

ITA!!! And I can't help but wonder if the teacher will/can be fired for this. Will the union allow it?? I can say that my kid would be pulled from that class the second I caught wind of this.

 

 

Va doesn't have a teacher's union. But, I don't think she will be fired. I would think that there would be some sort of discipline, though.

 

They did make a counselor available for the kids, but I can't imagine how uncomfortable that must have been for these students. :confused:

[staceyobu]

Sounds like a lawsuit to me...

[Belacqua]

Oh, dear. I'm so torn on this, because I'm usually outraged by apathy and teachers not seeming to care whether the kids learn anything or not. This teacher seems genuinely to want her students to learn about the horrors of slavery. But why on earth would she choose such a boneheaded way of demonstrating that?

[mom4him]

I think she could have demonstrated her point by doing the exercise with a different characteristic--everyone with blond hair or everyone with freckles or everyone who wore blue today.

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

I also know that sometimes I do things that just are not well thought out? Maybe that was the case with her.

[StephanieZ]

This Oprah show was so amazing. http://www.oprah.com/oprahshow/Race-on-The-Oprah-Show-A-25-Year-Look-Back/4

 

I still remember it vividly and it was nearly 20 years ago.

 

IMHO, that was an idiotic thing to do to little kids. Of any color. Especially of a particular race. Adults would have been traumatized. Kids of any age could really be injured.

[jewellsmommy]

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

I also know that sometimes I do things that just are not well thought out? Maybe that was the case with her.

 

 

I think it was this exactly! I don't think she is racist or uncaring or meant harm. I bet the activity sounded a lot better in her head. KWIM. Unfortunately, it was just not a good way to teach this lesson. Now all involved have or will suffer for it :sad:.

[KidsHappen]

This exact same thing happened two years ago. I can't remember where the original incident happened but it caused a big fracus so you would think that they educational establishment would have learned their lesson then. Plus, do people just not have any common sense anymore? :glare:

[Chris in VA]

So, am I right in saying SHE's not AA?

The lack of sensitivity is appalling.

[Haiku]

A few years ago my dd's 8th grade class did a slavery simulation where the kids were "captured" in the dark school gym, "shackled" with yarn, and led away to the "slave ship" (a dark stairwell), where they had to lie on the ground for two hours, not moving or speaking, while they listened to tapes of people being whipped.

 

I posted about it here, but I can't find the post now.

 

I was appalled and horrified. I was the only person who complained. While researching what to say to the principal, I came across schools doing Holocaust simulations in elevators, slave auctions, fake death penalty trials, etc. Schools apparently do all sorts of effed-up ****e in in an attempt to ... I don't even know what they are attempting to do. It's outrageous, really.

 

Tara

[Kimberly in IN]

Last year, my oldest dd was in 5th grade in a public school that annually held a huge fundraiser, referred to as a Chinese auction (an auction of cheap stuff). :glare: Her teacher made quite a few comments, in front of the class, about how much money they could raise by offering dd (only Chinese student in the class) as an auction item. My dd was less than amused. Our complaints to teacher, principal and up the ladder went nowhere, apparently since comments were "funny" and dd was suppose to find it funny. (more to that part of incident but not relevant here)

 

With all of this in mind, I can only imagine how hurtful this event was to the children involved. My dd was devastated and it was nowhere as involved as what was described in article.

 

I do applaud teachers who want to make a difference, put real effort into class, etc but REALLY, think it through ... you are the adult.

[unsinkable]

A few years ago my dd's 8th grade class did a slavery simulation where the kids were "captured" in the dark school gym, "shackled" with yarn, and led away to the "slave ship" (a dark stairwell), where they had to lie on the ground for two hours, not moving or speaking, while they listened to tapes of people being whipped.

 

I posted about it here, but I can't find the post now.

 

I was appalled and horrified. I was the only person who complained. While researching what to say to the principal, I came across schools doing Holocaust simulations in elevators, slave auctions, fake death penalty trials, etc. Schools apparently do all sorts of effed-up ****e in in an attempt to ... I don't even know what they are attempting to do. It's outrageous, really.

 

Tara

 

Your situation was the first thing I thought of when I read this post. I am glad you saw this and were able to weigh in.

 

:grouphug:

[TXMary2]

Wow. I think this teacher used pretty bad judgement. I agree with others that this could have been done by using different physical traits of the kids. Myabe the teacher didn't think the shock value would be there with those things. If that is the case I would say that at least a permission slip would have been necessary for participating in this. :confused:

[Murphy101]

I think it was this exactly! I don't think she is racist or uncaring or meant harm. I bet the activity sounded a lot better in her head. KWIM. Unfortunately, it was just not a good way to teach this lesson. Now all involved have or will suffer for it :sad:.

 

I said I thought she was an idiot.

 

Never said she was being malicious in some manner.

 

She could have been, but I don't know.

 

Plenty of nice idiots doing stupid things in the world.

 

Sadly, it seems the truly malicious tend to have enough sense to not be so obvious most of the time.

[Cricket]

Last year, my oldest dd was in 5th grade in a public school that annually held a huge fundraiser, referred to as a Chinese auction (an auction of cheap stuff). :glare: Her teacher made quite a few comments, in front of the class, about how much money they could raise by offering dd (only Chinese student in the class) as an auction item. My dd was less than amused. Our complaints to teacher, principal and up the ladder went nowhere, apparently since comments were "funny" and dd was suppose to find it funny. (more to that part of incident but not relevant here)

 

With all of this in mind, I can only imagine how hurtful this event was to the children involved. My dd was devastated and it was nowhere as involved as what was described in article.

 

I do applaud teachers who want to make a difference, put real effort into class, etc but REALLY, think it through ... you are the adult.

 

:grouphug: Awful! I would be livid!

 

I find it strange that adults think children are unable to empathize or think slavery is wrong unless they are the target of an object lesson. We watched part The Civil War while it was on this past week. Believe me, that was enough for my older children to "get it". I don't even go into some things with my 7 yo because she is so sensitive. We are supposed to be reading a book on church history with her this year. Nope! After the first chapter, I saw she wouldn't handle the martyr stories well at all.

[LidiyaDawn]

Not the best idea, especially with that age group. I don't, however, think the teacher needs to be fired or that guidance counsellors need to be running around convincing everyone that they're all "traumatized" either.

[Murphy101]

Not the best idea, especially with that age group. I don't, however, think the teacher needs to be fired or that guidance counsellors need to be running around convincing everyone that they're all "traumatized" either.

 

I agree guidance councilors is a bit much.

 

I'm all for firing idiot teachers who don't follow the curriculum taxpayers pay a bloody fortune for tho.

[mom2scouts]

Honestly, I think the teachers can't win. There was another situation very recently where the teacher did this, but she picked the children at random by counting off or something like that. One black student in the class happened to fall into the "slave" group and that caused a huge uproar. The point is to show the horrors of slavery and it works. My son did a similar project in middle school at a historic site that was part of the underground railroad. He played the part of an escaped slave and he still talks about how scary it was even though he knew it wasn't real. He says it gave him a tiny taste of the horrors of slavery and that was exactly what it was designed to do.

 

Some kids really do learn best by participating and a movie or story doesn't get it across as well.

[Haiku]

 

Some kids really do learn best by participating and a movie or story doesn't get it across as well.

 

And some kids will be upset by participating, and some kids will think the whole thing is stupid and it ends up just being wasted time for them. How can we know which kids will react in which ways?

 

Schools are not places to manipulate children's emotions. How, exactly, does giving kids "a tiny taste of the horrors of slavery" help them? Do we think that by doing these things, we are preventing slavery in the future? If parents think their kids need a taste of slavery, I think it's up to the parents to provide the experience. Schools should not be in the business of creating emotional dramas.

 

Tara

[Murphy101]

And some kids will be upset by participating, and some kids will think the whole thing is stupid and it ends up just being wasted time for them. How can we know which kids will react in which ways?

 

Schools are not places to manipulate children's emotions. How, exactly, does giving kids "a tiny taste of the horrors of slavery" help them? Do we think that by doing these things, we are preventing slavery in the future? If parents think their kids need a taste of slavery, I think it's up to the parents to provide the experience. Schools should not be in the business of creating emotional dramas.

 

Tara

 

 

:iagree:

[lionfamily1999]

:grouphug: Awful! I would be livid!

 

I find it strange that adults think children are unable to empathize or think slavery is wrong unless they are the target of an object lesson. We watched part The Civil War while it was on this past week. Believe me, that was enough for my older children to "get it". I don't even go into some things with my 7 yo because she is so sensitive. We are supposed to be reading a book on church history with her this year. Nope! After the first chapter, I saw she wouldn't handle the martyr stories well at all.

It does include an interesting lesson in how those in authority can get too big for their britches and wield their power in ways that cause 'harm' and can result in their losing their jobs.

 

Sure the teacher could've just been an idget, but it was the power of her position that allowed for her to be such an incredibly big idget.

And some kids will be upset by participating, and some kids will think the whole thing is stupid and it ends up just being wasted time for them. How can we know which kids will react in which ways?

 

Schools are not places to manipulate children's emotions. How, exactly, does giving kids "a tiny taste of the horrors of slavery" help them? Do we think that by doing these things, we are preventing slavery in the future? If parents think their kids need a taste of slavery, I think it's up to the parents to provide the experience. Schools should not be in the business of creating emotional dramas.

 

Tara

:grouphug:

[Slartibartfast]

Minority Children are not tools for shock value.

 

 

:glare:

 

Sure, the macabre is often dealt with in history but IMO there is just a line one shouldn't cross.

 

I might be ok with dd being "stricken" with the black death but I don't think it is appropriate to utilize minority children as a learning aid.

[Meriwether]

Minority Children are not tools for shock value.

 

 

:glare:

 

Sure, the macabre is often dealt with in history but IMO there is just a line one shouldn't cross.

 

I might be ok with dd being "stricken" with the black death but I don't think it is appropriate to utilize minority children as a learning aid.

 

I heard one time, but am fuzzy on details, of a Holocaust exhibit where you were assigned a person. As you went through the exhibit, you eventually find out what happend to them. I think that would be difficult to experience, but I think I would have really learned something if I hadn't already read extensively about the Holocaust. But this? Why?

[justamouse]

I think the teacher is an idiot.

 

A'yup.

[Slartibartfast]

I heard one time, but am fuzzy on details, of a Holocaust exhibit where you were assigned a person. As you went through the exhibit, you eventually find out what happend to them. I think that would be difficult to experience, but I think I would have really learned something if I hadn't already read extensively about the Holocaust. But this? Why?

 

When I visited the touring Titanic exhibit they give you a card with a person's picture and a small biography. At the end you find out about your person and whether or not they lived.

 

I imagine the Holocaust thing is similar. :(

[lionfamily1999]

Minority Children are not tools for shock value.

 

 

:glare:

 

Sure, the macabre is often dealt with in history but IMO there is just a line one shouldn't cross.

 

I might be ok with dd being "stricken" with the black death but I don't think it is appropriate to utilize minority children as a learning aid.

Isn't that racism? Only white children (males?) can be used to show how these things work?

 

I agree with the teacher being an idiot. I lean towards an idiot with too much power. I don't know about differentiating between people because of their race, though. It seems like it would be just as hurtful to be excluded based on your race as it would be to be singled out... then, those are the same thing.

[lionfamily1999]

I heard one time, but am fuzzy on details, of a Holocaust exhibit where you were assigned a person. As you went through the exhibit, you eventually find out what happend to them. I think that would be difficult to experience, but I think I would have really learned something if I hadn't already read extensively about the Holocaust. But this? Why?

The museum in DC and Virginia's Holocaust museum do this. The VA one has a cattle car too. Heavy stuff. They don't allow children under a certain age to participate (10 or 12). We haven't been able to go because of their age restrictions.

[Heatherwith4]

I think the teacher seriously did not think things through. Surely they would have realized there would be repercussions?

[RanchGirl]

And some kids will be upset by participating, and some kids will think the whole thing is stupid and it ends up just being wasted time for them. How can we know which kids will react in which ways?

 

Schools are not places to manipulate children's emotions. How, exactly, does giving kids "a tiny taste of the horrors of slavery" help them? Do we think that by doing these things, we are preventing slavery in the future? If parents think their kids need a taste of slavery, I think it's up to the parents to provide the experience. Schools should not be in the business of creating emotional dramas.

 

Tara

 

 

:iagree: Apparently this woman is such a poor teacher and her students are so tuned out, that she decided only shock value could get through to the kids. How sad.

 

The historical facts of slavery are horrific enough in and of themselves, they don't need to be sensationalized this way.

[SweetBean]

Oh, dear. I'm so torn on this, because I'm usually outraged by apathy and teachers not seeming to care whether the kids learn anything or not. This teacher seems genuinely to want her students to learn about the horrors of slavery. But why on earth would she choose such a boneheaded way of demonstrating that?

That may have been what she wanted, but there is no way she should have put her students through it. I think it is horrific enough to learn about slavery, especially if your ancestors were the victims of it, but to be made be pulled in front of the class on top of that would be absolutely humiliating. My kids are homeschooled, but I would have pulled my kids out of the school for that.

[SweetBean]

The museum in DC and Virginia's Holocaust museum do this. The VA one has a cattle car too. Heavy stuff. They don't allow children under a certain age to participate (10 or 12). We haven't been able to go because of their age restrictions.

I'm guessing participation is voluntary, and that black children aren't pulled out of the crowd for this activity.

[SweetBean]

Minority Children are not tools for shock value.

 

 

:glare:

 

Sure, the macabre is often dealt with in history but IMO there is just a line one shouldn't cross.

 

I might be ok with dd being "stricken" with the black death but I don't think it is appropriate to utilize minority children as a learning aid.

:hurray: :iagree::iagree::iagree:

[Kimberly in IN]

Minority Children are not tools for shock value.

 

:iagree: Cannot agree more strongly!!!!!!!!!!

[stripe]

I don't think it is appropriate to utilize minority children as a learning aid.

Thank you for saying this so well. The idea that African American children should be singled out for humiliation suggests that a) such children never noticed that they were descended from slaves, b) no one else did either, and c) more humiliation will somehow help.

 

Why is this not obvious?

 

Why not have mock rape scenes, and light skinned students be designated the products, and then have some lynchings when Johnnie looked at Betty wrong? :glare:

 

It would be obvious for most teachers that having male students rip the pants and fondle the female students would not be a good way to teach appropriate behavior and discourage sexual harassment.

 

Doing a random assignment of people in a historical reenactment is completely different. And I thought most of the time, assignments are made either randomly OR having the dominant group put in the shoes of the victims, i.e. the white students are the slaves. That, I am also not a fan of, but at least it's thought provoking. This is just gruesome.

[Harriet Vane]

. . . Schools should not be in the business of creating emotional dramas.

 

Tara

 

:iagree: Emphatically.

[Meriwether]

I'm guessing participation is voluntary, and that black children aren't pulled out of the crowd for this activity.

 

I'm the one who initially brought up the Holocaust exhibit, which I was thinking about because of Sis' comment about not objecting as much if her Dd was role playing the black plague, or something along those lines. I was thinking about history exhibits/reenactments that have shock value but also educational value. Others were giving actual details about the exhibits. No one was saying these things were the same as what happened in the classroom.

 

I still can't think why the teacher would do something like that.

[Michele B]

I think the teacher is an idiot.

:iagree:

[lionfamily1999]

I'm guessing participation is voluntary, and that black children aren't pulled out of the crowd for this activity.

No, it's a museum. My guess is that they rarely wander through crowds forcing people to go.

[Murphy101]

Isn't that racism? Only white children (males?) can be used to show how these things work?

 

I agree with the teacher being an idiot. I lean towards an idiot with too much power. I don't know about differentiating between people because of their race, though. It seems like it would be just as hurtful to be excluded based on your race as it would be to be singled out... then, those are the same thing.

 

 

I agree. This isn't about minorities. It's just not appropriate.

 

And it presumes that the white kid isn't a minority, when in many schools he just might be according to the latest census.

 

http://newsdeskinternational.wordpress.com/2011/04/06/census-results-show-white-children-now-minority-in-10-states/

[jewellsmommy]

I said I thought she was an idiot.

 

Never said she was being malicious in some manner.

 

She could have been, but I don't know.

 

Plenty of nice idiots doing stupid things in the world.

 

Sadly, it seems the truly malicious tend to have enough sense to not be so obvious most of the time.

 

 

This was not directed at you at all. I agreed with you earlier (#6 I should have used the sign guy to make it more obvious though :) ). I associate idiocy with stupidity, not with maliciousness. I never thought you were saying anything different then that. I'm sorry if you thought I was attributing more to your words. I agree that she made a really bad decision and showed bad judgement.

Edited April 13, 2011 by jewellsmommy

[jewellsmommy]

A few years ago my dd's 8th grade class did a slavery simulation where the kids were "captured" in the dark school gym, "shackled" with yarn, and led away to the "slave ship" (a dark stairwell), where they had to lie on the ground for two hours, not moving or speaking, while they listened to tapes of people being whipped.

 

I posted about it here, but I can't find the post now.

 

I was appalled and horrified. I was the only person who complained. While researching what to say to the principal, I came across schools doing Holocaust simulations in elevators, slave auctions, fake death penalty trials, etc. Schools apparently do all sorts of effed-up ****e in in an attempt to ... I don't even know what they are attempting to do. It's outrageous, really.

 

Tara

 

 

Oh my goodness, that's horrible!

[Murphy101]

This was not directed at you at all. I agreed with you earlier (#6 I should have used the sign guy to make it more obvious though :) ). I associate idiocy with stupidity, not with maliciousness. I never thought you were saying anything different then that. I'm sorry if you thought I was attributing more to your words. I agree that she made a really bad decision and showed bad judgement.

 

 

 

Oh no problem. I didn't really think you were. Just wanted to be clear in general. :)